Offspring : The Narcissist and Children
I have detailed previously why it is that we regard the act of impregnation as a material asset in the narcissistic armoury. It is not only the promise of impregnation, but the act itself and what this act creates that produces a whole host of benefits for our kind. This is the approach adopted by numerous of our kind, those who see children as additional appliances from whom fuel can be drawn, pawns to be used in the repeated triangulations which can be orchestrated with the primary source and the method by which we are able to claim the achievements and the accomplishments of our issue as our own. Not all of our kind adopt that approach. There are those of us who regard the idea of offspring as a threat and a hindrance to our agendas.
Why would we want someone to come along and steal our limelight? From the moment a child is born it is sufficiently pathetic that it requires nigh on twenty four hour assistance. It cannot walk, it cannot feed itself, it cannot clothe itself or wash itself. It must be tended for on a repeated basis. If you were to look to us to do this, you would find that there would not be any assistance forthcoming. Not only are we notorious in our desire to shirk menial tasks (unless we see that there is some considerable benefit in us doing so) but we do not see why we should have our needs pushed to one side in order to facilitate the care of another. Even though that child is a product of our loins, there are those of our kind who adopt such a view. You ought not to be surprised by that. We behave the same with our parents, siblings and wider relatives. We are like that with friends of both short and long-standing duration and naturally we behave in such a way with the person we supposedly love, our intimate partner. Why then would you expect anything different from us in respect of a child. In such circumstances therefore, the decision not to have children would be regarded as a blessing I am sure by your kind. We could not countenance that all of the emotional attention would be directed and fixated on such a helpless being. Here we are, magnificent and brilliant and you choose to direct your fuel to somebody else. That is an insult indeed to us and a mighty criticism which would wound us considerably.
Our resources would also be sought for this new arrival. Time, energy, finances and so forth. We regard our resources as ours alone and begrudge sharing them, unless such largesse brings additional reward for us. This selfishness is necessary in order to preserve ourselves and the fact that a child needs our resources is not going to change that mind set. We do not do anything just for the sake of doing so. There must be an ulterior motive to our actions. Pouring our resources towards somebody who will be oblivious to this for some time is not something that finds favour with some of our kind.
From your perspective we know you regard us as selfish for behaving this way. We regard it as self-preservation. You are the givers and the carers, we are not. If you wish to judge us for adopting such a stance, so be it, but for those of our kind who regard the issue of children as something to be avoided, that position is most unlikely to alter. We see only loss. Loss of our resources and loss of our fuel. Whilst some of our kind regard the additional benefits which can be derived from having children (the binding of the primary source, additional fuel provision, potential for traits and triangulation etc.) as worth obtaining despite the likelihood of reduced fuel from the primary source and reduced resources, there are also those from our ranks who assess the situation and decide it is not a price they wish to pay.
What is behind that? Why is it that some of our number opt to have children and others refrain from doing so? I cannot offer a definitive answer, although I consider, from my experience and those that I have engaged with that the proportion of our kind who decide to have children is greater than those who do not. I suspect the temptations of further fuel provision and triangulation prove quite the draw. It also highly likely that the idea of securing our legacy through children proves attractive as well. Seeing our own image and knowing that it will, more likely than not, outlive our mortal selves, does appeal to the need to maintain our idea of omnipotence. See how mighty we are that our influence lives on in our offspring and will do so in their own as our dynasty is forged. Such a notion does provide its own appeal.
What of me? What tipped the balance for me so that I opted to remain child-free in order to remain light on my feet, unhindered and fully-resourced. Was it the factors I have described above which caused me to decide that having children was not for me? In part yes, although I readily admit that the other elements and benefits from having issue are attractive. No, whilst I weighed up these various benefits and disadvantages it was something from my past which proved to be the deciding factor. It was something that has resonated with me for some time and something that somehow buried deep inside me and stayed there for a while until I decided to act on it and made my decision as to my destiny in respect of children. The idea of seeing those in my own image wending their way through the world and following in my footsteps was a strong pull, a strong pull indeed, but ultimately it came down to something else. This may be applicable to others of our kind as well, but for me the decision came down to this.
I could not take the risk of him or her or them reminding me of you and what you did to me.
Those words will never be forgotten.
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The less narcissists want children, the better. Being an ACON (adult child of a narcissist) and knowing your parent does not love you, never has and doesn´t give a shit, is not fun. 🙁
I agree.
Both my husband and I have shared in some random occasions to our kids that my mom and their dad’s dad were not nice to us when we were young. I can’t remember how it happened but it was coincidental to something that they may have watched or asked us. One day our son randomly told me with complete sincerity that if my mom wasn’t mean to me maybe I wouldn’t have been the great mom that I am to them. I think that’s really all I need. They also tell their dad he’s the best dad ever. So proud of our son’s positivity and outlook although they’re both really sweet kids.
Of course there are indeed positive sides of being an ACON. I wouldn´t have achieved what I have now without my ambitions, without being an ACON and never feeling good enough. On one hand, I would like to feel good enough but this not feeling good enough is also my driving force for success and a more or less decent appearance 😊 I would never be where I am now without being an ACON and that´s for sure!
LFS, it was good to read your words here, yes, I would be inclined to agree RE: being an ACON can give you ‘instinctive tools’ to create inner ‘strengths’ (your own ‘defense system’) that many people would not necessarily have the experience of ‘gaining’ those types of characteristics. Yes we also have ‘weaknesses’ (chinks in our armour that we have instinctively ‘created’) – as long as we are ‘tuned’ into ourselves within the environment we find ourselves in and aware of how we, as individuals ‘react / respond’ – we effectively are creating more ‘strengths’ – added bonus.
I have to admit, that maybe the ‘feeling / thinking not good enough’ will always be present, again, this depends on the environmental & social factors – recognising your strengths / weaknesses, remaining ‘true’ to yourself, reminding yourself of what you have learned about yourself = self-confidence, self-esteem being one of the areas that was instilled (life-long) is probably one of the most difficult to religiously ‘maintain’ = always remind yourself, you are who you are. It does not really matter (not really) what others think about you. See it as their problem rather than let it become yours. If there are some people who love you, accept you as you are – internally, then what you look like is irrelevant (in real terms). I suppose my Aspergers and other comorbidities in personality traits = a conundrum (one that I am currently comfortable with) 😉
Wonderful and true words, Asp. Thank you very much! ❤
LFS, thank you. Stay strong 🙂 x
You too! 😘
Hello Léela, I saw an article before about how 75% of high achievers experienced childhood adversity. But childhood adversity can create serious damage in someone’s development however it seems that the ones who became high achievers tend to have defiant attitude towards negative feedback. My personal thoughts about it is that whether someone who experienced childhood adversity becomes an empath or a narcissist, the defiance kept them fighting for themselves and seeking success was a way of standing up for themselves. Narcissists seek fuel and the higher functioning ones are able to use more tools to seek the positions that allow them to have power and control. Empaths have a lot of inner passion and when they are lucky to find that passion they can become highly successful because they can give their all. So in a way childhood adversity can make someone have unique traits in higher concentrations than most people and that can also make them stand out from others.
You have just described me to a “T”. You hit the nail on the head. My main narcissistic trait: Guess what? DEFIANCE! Yes, this my life, this is exactly me!
My husband is the same way. But a lot of times I forget that he also grew up in abuse because for some reason it didn’t seem to have impacted him. His circumstances were different though. He had siblings and he was allowed to be outside and play with many friends away from his alcoholic and abusive dad. Unique circumstances can make a big difference I guess.
Also, I remember my husband told me one of the things that made him really upset when he was a teenager was when the dad of the girl that he asked for prom told him that he’s not good enough to go out with his daughter. He said it really drove him to work hard to get out of poverty and be a doctor. One time our son (7 yrs old) was saying how he would not want to talk to a princess because princesses are so beautiful and they have everything and my husband I think got triggered with the “not good enough thought process” so he told our son that he can talk to anybody even to a princess because what’s important is that he has a good heart and he’s smart and he knows a lot of things that anyone would want to talk about. So I think my husband is like you with the “not good enough “ defiance.
Is he an Empath?
I think he’s a normal but he is very empathic but he is not a shoulder to cry on. He tells his employee to not bring their problems at work because it’s all about the patients and not about them. But he helps too but only when he feels driven to help someone and also the way he helps make it special so in that way he is very empathic. But he’s not oozing with empathy.
Leela, your attitude toward this is a good one. I hope to feel this way at some point. Right now I’m still at “But what could I have accomplished had I had loving and supportive parents?” Or “How much less stressful would it have been to accomplish what I have with good, healthy parents?” Bitterness will get me no where good, I know this, thankfully these things seem to be temporary. You give me something to aspire to. 😃
Oh, I hear you, sister! I can relate to those questions 100 %. But do not ask them, because that makes bitter. We cannot change the fact that we´re ACONS. We must make the best out of it. We cannot turn back time and choose our parents. That´s now the way it is and we must live with it. We must learn to live with the fact that we´re ACONs and there are not only negative sites to that one. 🙂 🤗
Thank you Leela, working toward that! It will happen, I will not settle for bitterness, if I did, they would only win again! No way!
That´s the spirit! 👍💪
We can really never know what could have been, and can only know what came of overcoming any adversity. This reminds me of the Labyrinth when Worm says, “If she’d’ve kept going down that way she’d’ve gone straight to the castle!” There are a lot of underlying narcissistic themes in that film. Would Sarah have been able to “defeat” the Goblin King is she had gone the other direction?
BC30, you are correct, we can not know what could have been. I have thought of this also, perhaps things would have been different and not good. Thank you for this reminder, this is one of the things that is important to remember. Another is that there are always people who have or have had more difficulties, and who are victorious in spite of them. Thankyou.
BC30,
“This reminds me of the Labyrinth when Worm says, “If she’d’ve kept going down that way she’d’ve gone straight to the castle!” There are a lot of underlying narcissistic themes in that film. Would Sarah have been able to “defeat” the Goblin King is she had gone the other direction?”
I love this reference. But I always hated when the worm piped up and said that…and I would get a sinking feeling.
Dearest leela,
I wholeheartedly agree with every word
I know the feeling, you’re not alone
I had not one but both parents 😞
Luv bubbles xx 😘
Hi Bubbles,
I agree with your comment here. But I also would like to thank you for the wise and well worded comment on the long “What Goes on Below” thread. I had literally been watching for you to weigh in, knowing you would bring some kind of sense to it for me. And you absolutely did, thank you so much. Life would be dull indeed if we all thought exactly alike. 💕
Dearest A Victor,
Ohhh wow … that’s sooo sweet of you to say AV
I was nearly not going to say anything
I felt in alignment with you about it weighing heavy on me as well
There are always ‘underlying’ issues as to why we do what we do
Understanding what triggers us is the first step …there’s always a reason !
Keeping focused, within the boundaries and constructive is imperative, making it a ‘personal’ attack never wins the day and everyone loses
Thank you again n huge heartfelt hugs to you AV… you’re such a beautiful soul 🤗
💕
Luv Bubbles xx 😘
Hi Bubbles,
I am so glad you did speak into ‘the thing’! It helped me to see it in a more balanced way for sure. I feel like I am stronger and wiser and more prepared if (when) something like this happens again though I hope it is more than a week off this time! Two back to back incidents over the last couple of weeks was a lot!
Learning the triggers is important, I agree! And I liked LET’s assessment on how to know the difference, if it stems from hurt or is to cause hurt. I also love your “Keeping focused, within the boundaries and constructive”, seeing that one knows it is not intended to hurt. And of course, personal attacks are never warranted!
Thank you for the hugs and the kind affirmation! That made my day! AV
Dearest A Victor,
There are ‘rules of engagement’ into arguing …. unfortunately, not many people follow them ……pity !
I’m concerned to hear you’ve had some back to back issues …. are you ok and can we be of some help?
Luv Bubbles xx 😘
Dear Bubble’s,
Thank you for the offer, I was talking about the 2 incidents that occurred here on the blog. I’m doing well, just thankful those are over. 💕
Oh my goodness, so sorry to hear that Bubbles! And so glad you became an Empath, not a narcissist. 🤗
Dearest leela,
Its fine lovely one, but I’m happy to say I do have more empath in me than narc traits …. hmmmm I think 🤔
😂
Luv Bubbles xx 😘
Thanks goodness you´re an Emp and you´re fine! 🤗
This is exactly what it is. I should be reading this every day.
There are also those who do not want children, but the prospect of passing on their own genes is so strong that they cannot resist it despite losing their main source. After fertilization, they look for a new source.
I am incubator number 2. He never decided to have a child again. Even with ex-wife.
After raising the children, they come back. He was going back to number 1 (son), but he didn’t quite succeed. He is patiently waiting for the opportunity.
Now she tries with number 2 (daughter). All the time I wonder if through the child he wants to get to me, or through me he wants to get to his daughter. A terribly contradictory message.
My daughter, who is empathic but has a lot of narcissistic traits (as if she were fighting), despite not knowing about narcissism and not knowing her father, told me, “He’s using you to get to me.” And she told him that she could not forgive him yet and that she was not ready to meet him or talk to him. She dealt the cards herself …
His reaction to pictures of his own child sent to him, which everyone says is a physical copy of him, but has my eyes and dress style: “Oh no, she can’t be like you!”
Sometimes I wonder if I am preparing an “outlet” for old age (although it looks great, but notices the first signs of aging, it seeks confirmation from me). Wherever it goes, there it goes …
HG …you would not want your children to remind you of their mother or your mother ?
Neither.
Hi Mollyb5, when I was expecting our first child, my ex said “I hope it looks just like me!” I couldn’t believe it. But I think it is how they think.
Mistake – he was proud not of her, but of himself 🙂
Joa, I’m not following? Which he and which her? Sorry! 🤔
AV, I have been thinking about that lately. Before I became a mom I was imagining my future kid to be a mini me and a legacy of me. But when my son was born I couldn’t see myself on him even though people point out physical similarities. I can’t stop myself from seeing him as his own individual. I thought it would be different if I have a girl but it’s the same. I see some of myself and my husband on them. Even some of my N mom and my E dad too. But they are not a legacy or any of us as they are their own unique individual selves. And it’s not something that I even try to tell myself, it’s just instinctive. I don’t know though if it’s also because I’m an ACON. My husband seems to have more pride on our kids similarities to him but not to the extent of having them as extensions. Sometimes I wonder if I am missing out for not having that feeling.
MP, when I was expecting my first I was so out of touch with what was happening, I was so newly an adult and I had not processed any of the crap I’d grown up with yet, that I didn’t give any of this any thought. I was still in run from abuse mode, it was a very upside down time in my life. When she was born everyone said she looked like me, for years. I had her with my first husband. When I was expecting my second, my ex (2nd) who was my boyfriend at the time, had heard people say this to me about my oldest for 5 years. His remark may have stemmed from that but it was still very odd to me for someone to just say it out like that. Once she was born he did not build a relationship with her any more than anyone else. But he is a narc so that is not surprising. He didn’t even do the extension thing.
I agree AV, it is odd for someone to say. Both me and my husband never said anything like that. But my husband is a jokester so his favorite joke was about how awesome he is with the recipe and he hopes that I bake it right. With his personality, it is not offensive because it is just him and you’ll know he’s just being funny. Then if our kids act weird or act up or do something funny in a clumsy way he would look at me and shake his head and say that I didn’t read the recipe well or this is what he always feared that I would mess up the recipe. But he sometimes get defensive when somebody says our daughter got my eyes because he really believes that she is a carbon copy of him. But nothing about his behavior makes anyone feel that he treats any of the kids, even his older kids, an extension of himself. And he never wished that any of the kids would look like him. What he always said is that he believed that we will have cute kids because of all of the racial mix they will have. I have to agree with you that it is odd for anyone to say something that your ex said and it sounds very grandiose thinking.