Caught In A Lie
I have explained previously that lying is like breathing for our kind. Lesser and Mid Range Narcissists tell lies and believe them, they are their truth. They do not recognise that they are lying and therefore there is no question of guilt, remorse or conscience because they do not see that they are doing something which is seen as wrong by you. Such is the joy of ignorance.
Greater Narcissists tell lies where some are believed by the Greater, the True Believer Status of those narcissists which operate in the rarefied atmosphere of control, power and privilege and are responsible for many of the glories and ills of the world you inhabit. However, much of the lies of the Greater are conscious lies and are told because of our innate Machiavellian nature wherein the end justifies the means and therefore there is nothing to be lost by knowingly lying and everything to gain. Unhindered by guilt, conscience or remorse, we will knowingly tell lies to serve our needs which will include the sheer entertainment of knowing we are lying and the impact it has on our victims.
What about when the narcissist is caught in a lie? Many of you will have witnessed this. The Greater is not caught in a lie because the sheer force of our lies, the level of our intellect and the extent of our scheming means that the lie is either undetectable or if it is, we are not caught in it. There is always an exit, whether that is through charm, massive plausible deniability or the operation of some manipulation, the Greater may occasionally have a lie exposed, but is never caught in it.
But what about the the Lesser or Mid Range Narcissist? You will have caught them in a lie on many occasions. What happens and surely their reaction means that they know they are caught lying?
No, it does not.
If you boldly accuse a narcissist of lying or you are less candid so you present a contradictory state of affairs between what the narcissist has said and some other evidence, what will you be met with?
This amounts to a challenge to the narcissist. You will be presenting Challenge Fuel and thus there is no wounding. However, your challenge to the narcissist by suggesting, forcefully or with subtlety that he or she has lied, is stating that the narcissist is wrong and thus you are offending the narcissists sense of superiority and seeking to pin accountability on the narcissist. You are not allowed to do this.
These challenges to superiority through our sense of entitlement to do what we want and need and to the lack of accountability threaten our control. Thus you will meet the First Line of the Twin Narcissistic Lines of Defence, which is denial.
You will be told that you are wrong, that this never happened, that you are incorrect, that you are making scandalous accusations, that your memory is haphazard or that you are making things up. All of these things and others amount to denial.
Denial will be maintained again and again and again until either you give up (thus giving the narcissist control and your challenge has ended) or you present something (usually independent corroborative evidence (such as a text, a picture, a video recording or somebody else’s testimony). If you do the latter you break through the First Line and thus you expose the lie.
This means the narcissist MUST in order to maintain control, fall back to the Second Line of the Narcissistic Twin Lines of Defence, which is in effect, any other manipulation and we have plenty of those. To understand more about the Twin Lines of Narcissistic Defence, read The Narcissist’s Twin Lines of Defence.
However, if you break through the First Line and present evidence showing a disconnect between what the narcissist says has happened and something else, has the narcissist not seen that he has lied? Does he not gain knowledge that he has lied? Is she not now fixed with realisation that she has lied?
No.
The reaction you see is not of realisation that a lie has been exposed but instead the reaction to the loss of control, which you, understandably (because of your worldview) but mistakenly, see as realisation of been caught lying.
It is not.
It is a realisation that something is not right. The unconscious loss of control manifests in a conscious response through the application of the Second Line.
Thus, this is why the Lesser or Mid Range Narcissist does not know that he or she is lying and does not see the lie has been exposed, they merely sense a threat to their control and you become the problem which results in the application of a further manipulation through the application of the Second Line.
Dependent on the school of narcissist, the response may be plausible or be completely ridiculous, but it will be used because the narcissist is blind to the lie. All that matters is asserting control and quashing your challenge in some way.
You may receive some ridiculous comment which lacks credibility but it will be accompanied by a manipulation such as physical violence, smashing the phone on which your evidence is presented, a circular conversation, a bout of projection, a sudden massive word salad or any other form of manipulation from the many at our disposal, but it will always come.
It is akin to those films where someone is home alone and the madman or monster bursts into the house. The victim falls backwards, frantically scrambling away and reaching for anything, absolutely anything to use against the advancing threat to counter it. Sometimes the victim will reach for a gun and shoots countering the aggressor, thus that narcissist came up with a plausible response to being caught in a lie, sometimes the victim throws a knife, a candlestick or a rubber chicken. All have varying levels of effectiveness – just like the plausibility of the lie. Often you will still see through it, but it is the accompanying manipulation which enables the narcissist to scramble free of being caught in the lie.
You know the lie has been told, but that is not the issue. It is control and that is what the narcissist seeks. Even if the lie remains live and on the record, if control has been attained by punching you, flouncing off, shouting at you or embarking on a thirty minute word salad monologue then that is all that matters.
But now, let us hear from you, when you have caught the narcissist in a lie, share with us, those absolute corkers and belters that would have Pinocchio embarrassed. Explain the circumstances and what was said and then look at what else happened alongside it to realise how it is not so much the lie that matters but the need for control.
17 thoughts on “Caught In A Lie”
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HG , what is your prediction about how amber heard will react since now during the libel trial of Johnny Depp she has been found out to be a fraud …she is the physical abuser and did not donate her full settlement from Johnny Depp divorce like she promised ( Elon Musk gave in her behalf and Johnny Depp did and someone else from a fund …not amber . She claims she’s an ambassador for aclu and they helped write the op Ed so she could go out and speak for them and so they could get more funds / donations . She took many personality tests from a highly educated test forensic psychologist giver who testified her test showed she is a sociopath and histrionic personality . Is she going to try to disappear or cause fights with other people? Or what?
Whenever a lie was exposed – he either did not remember saying it – or rather than denying it – gave a plausible excuse. His persona was that he was honest and trustworthy, so in the beginning I did not question what he said.
‘I did not want to hurt your feelings by telling you the truth’…hmmm ‘why would you think that?’ His explanations were always plausible – when looked at from a different view point.
Later on when the facade disintegrated – it was apparent – he was not honest or trustworthy. By than, it was pointless calling him out for lying. I actually think he wanted me to. He wanted my rage. I was too busy sorting out my inner confusion to care. Lost in an inner world he had already been shut out of.
HG
Are there clues in this image for the Knowing HG series and forum?
NA, yes.
Thank you HG.
Well there you go – validation that I’m not just seeing things haha.
Clue Hunters get your magnifiers and spec-savers out!
Mercy: If you’re out there reading……. it’s a garden.
(Haha, couldn’t resist).
NA,
That picture, as pretty is it is, makes me think “ liar liar pants on fire!”
A female protagonist lies about the accident?
TS
There is the metaphorical yes, but as you know, I see pictures within the pictures as well. If one lets go of the picture as they assume it to be, you can begin to see other things. Turning the pic on its side for instance, hair can become water and turned yet another way, a pinched up dress can become terrain. I see people and many other things. The visual clues in the article pics provided and the written parts of Knowing HG must have HG yelling: COME ON PEOPLE! Haha.
NA, Yes probably, the clues will be placed and the thought will be, “Surely that’s too obvious.”
Nope. Haha! I’m woeful at the pictures, I can’t see anything hidden in the images. I just see the picture as it is obviously meant to be. I think it’s impressive that you can decipher pictures within pictures.
It’s a bit like hiding from someone. No one ever thinks to look upwards, they search at eye level.
I’ve got loads of these, but I’ll use this one since I’m doing a phone hearing on my benefits from Miss Minchin’s School for Traumatized Yuppie Puppies within the next hour. (I may not get the money, but, armed with the Narc in Court recording, I won’t let the bastards upset me or provoke me into doing anything against protocol. Meanwhile, I got some advice from Legal Aid on what to emphasize and what to keep as a private grudge.)
One of the older infants went through an aggressive phase where she was pushing and shoving other kids. The trainings land good common sense) said not to “punish” a child that age who won’t get it anyway or urge retaliation, but rather to separate the kids physically while repeating, “we don’t hurt our friends.” (Mind you, these were kids less than 18 months, not school-aged kids who might have to slug it out in self-defense on occasion.)
We had a couple of biters, so she was hardly the only kid who got aggressive, but GrinchLady had it in for this one anyway. She said aloud, in front of the kids as well as other teachers, “I wish the others would do something back to her.” I brought it up at a meeting. She stoutly denied it. After several of her outraged denials (I’m sure she believed herself: HG had identified her as lower mid-range, thus unaware), I pointed out that she had done this in front of Becky. Long pause.
In defeated tears, she admitted, “Alright, I shouldn’t have said it!” No acknowledgement that thinking someone ought to hurt Molly even if she didn’t say it out loud was a rather strange philosophy for an infant carer, since neither Molly’s parents nor the avenger’s parents might care to have their kids taught that this was an acceptable way to resolve conflict.
As a result of this article, I googled this:
in·teg·ri·ty
1. the quality of being honest and having strong moral principles; moral uprightness.
So HG, accordingly, narcs would have no integrity, correct? If they’re seeming to have integrity, it is because it is what suits their purpose at that time, correct? The Greater is discussed clearly in this article, as the Ultra, are there differences specific to you regarding this? I mean beyond holding yourself to a higher level of professionalism so as to achieve your aims, it still not being from the motivator of doing it because it is how you are, is this correct?
Oh wait, I just realized, going to the evidence of what is in this article, I already know the answers, except does this article hold true for you also, as the Ultra? Thank you!
Okay, one more thing. I have taken it that the Ultra is the Ultra because he’s the best narcissist on the planet. Best at manipulating, best at cognitive empathy, best at compartmentalizing, best at all the things that narcissists do, the best narcissist. This making the Ultra the most dangerous one on the planet also. If it is the case that being the Ultra means you are best because you can gain emotional empathy, I have misunderstood, please tell me which it is? If I am misunderstanding this, it is a game changer, a really big one.
You’ve misunderstood. I have no emotional empathy.
Okay, that’s what I thought, thank you for the clarification. And, I take it to therefore follow that you are unable to ever acquire emotional empathy, this is what I have understood. Thank you, that is a big piece for me to know.
Integrity is manufactured by the narcissist because it is generated (where it is generated) for the prime aims, i.e. self serving.