Erika Kirk : The Red Flags
33 thoughts on “Erika Kirk : The Red Flags”
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Jordy–
“…you get all the jokes, all the small talk, all the hints and implications, and you also provide a variety of your own, proving how neurotypical you are in reality. Autism seems to play a very insignificant part for you…”
This really hit me. I’m emotional about this owing to my own experience, but I’ll endeavor to put that aside. Understand that my impulse to chime in is rooted in me being an empath and also being formally diagnosed with ASD. I do have skin in this game from both directions. I’m not Dani’s protector and HG stands like a tower, but this post of yours has rankled me. I’m trying to use my logic here.
I appreciate Dani’s consistently on point and helpful questions and comments. I feel a sort of kinship with the flow of her mind. Her engagement with the material on narcissism always teaches me something and I have been fascinated to read the thoughts of an empath who also shares my neurotype. I must say Dani is one reason (among many) I feel much less isolated and stronger in the face of the autism police in my own life. Aldo, Dani has made me think deeply about how autism lives within an empath and vice versa. She’s provided me with many interesting ideas, and she really impresses me when she looks at specifics in HG’s work.
As with narcissists, empaths, and normals she makes me more aware that though there are certainly patterns and commonalities when speaking of any group, I must take care to see individuals. I think stereotypes have their use especially when thinking in terms of populations and high risk situations; I remain aware of certain things when I’m dealing with someone I don’t know or when something important is at stake. These days, for example, if I encounter a woman with pink hair, a nose ring, and huge glasses I have a pretty reliable understanding about what I’m going to get, but I’m willing to be surprised and I’ve enjoyed it when I have. I still fight the urge to rip out the nose ring, and I’m aware of the overall social implications, but if someone behaves well that’s about it for me.
HG’s work provides me with a useful, reliable, almost eerily accurate frame when I’m interpreting behavior. Dani approaches it in a way I share but she’s also very different from me. She is not High Priestess of Autism and neither are you. Put down the DSM.
You are in no position to put Dani against a neuropsychological checklist, neither in her behavior as an empath nor to see how “good” she is at being autistic. In my own life I’m so sick of both, I can’t tell you. I’m learning there is entirely too much misinformation about narcissism out there, which is why I stay close to Mr. Tudor’s work, and you show me there is a similar situation with autism. The DSM and the ICD are guides, not recipes. I feel you have no real standing from which to analyze her to determine the significance of how autism impacts upon her fit as an empath or the other way round.
Learning that I’m an empath and what that means from HG’s work has revolutionized how I see myself as earlier editions of the DSM indicated I was devoid of empathy.
And speaking for myself, at no time is my autism ever insignificant to my experience. That includes it as the brain background to both my and emotional and cognitive empathy. I don’t know it to be sure, but I would guess many others who find they have neurotypes which don’t fit within the norm might say so as well. Your comments really set me off as I found them unfair and misleading about empaths and autistics.
Thank you for writing this, Allison. I really appreciated reading it.
Doh!
I meant to say Marten not Letby haha.
There have been some difficult narcs to identify over time that had we not had HG’s analysis of them, would have us remaining convinced otherwise despite our education here. I’m still reeling from Letby for instance, where
In Erika Kirk’s case, I thought she was flying more flags than the U.N.
I’m not sure about absorbing someone else’s empathy unless one has major Contagion in their composition. It seems more a case of doubting our gut reaction as not to appear a hard case or offend others. Emotional thinking covers it better I think. Listening to your initial gut reaction, and as HG advises – observing further has more protection in it for us I believe.
I believe also in this case (as well as others) that the faith/religion of some might be at the forefront in their initial assessment over appearances, losing a husband and father etc.
Hi NA,
It was definitely my ET that caused me to question my gut. But to clarify, I wasn’t absorbing the empathy of AV & Contagious. My empathy for them caused me to view it through there lens. I think you hit on something with regards to not wanting to offend them though. That’s a definite possibility.
Religion didn’t come into play for me at all. I’m not a religious person at all.
Mr. Tudor,
Will you be doing an analysis on Erika Kirk? If not, will you tell us her school and cadre? I’ve ruled out lesser because she has a facade. I’ve also ruled out victim. I’m leaning towards somatic, maybe elite.
I hope there’s an analysis on the way. I learn so much from your analyses.
Ugh! I really wanted to give her the benefit of the doubt.
I watched her today. I don’t honestly know if I would have gotten the narc vibes if it wasn’t for HG but I can see them now. A similar feeling to this ones wife ..
Thank you for saying this, Jade. I watched about half of the interview yesterday and I agree with you. I can see it clearly now because of Mr. Tudor’s analysis. But if Mr. Tudor didn’t point it out, I could see me still being fooled as well. I think its my empathy for her situation that’s causing me to be unclear about it.
That’s it, isn’t it Leigh? I think
us empaths are slightly pulled towards emotional thinking then logic if we’re on the fence, so in a situation like this with a grieving widow, our spidey senses are tingling slightly but we can be prone to disregard them.
Also in another comment, I thanked HG for his second interview with narc con on Spotify. She also talked about just “knowing” straight away when someone is a narc too, I had that experience recently with a consistently rude shop owner. I hadn’t been in that shop for a few years but my body went into defense mode as soon as I saw her and she played out her usual degrading passive aggressive behaviours towards customers. HG was saying the more we learn, the more we will feel that too.
Ps I really like HGs YT shorts (not shorts before someone says it lol 🩳😄) showing clips of this one’s wife’s death stares, smirks, reacting to wounding etc as they show the really subtle give aways (I guess more common with MMR and greaters as lessers are as subtle as a brick).. they’re sneaky little fuckers (no offense HG 😉).
That’s exactly it, Jade! My ET tricked me and logic flew right out the window, lol!
Honestly, Leigh, there was a huge red flag flying when I saw the first few minutes of her speech soon after Charlie Kirk’s shooting.
I didn’t listen to the speech in full. I saw a portion of it on the news and that was enough. When she said words to the effect of “in the name of Christianity, this widow’s battle-cry will be heard across the world,” while standing with full makeup looking like she was ready for a beauty pageant, I thought, “hmmm, yeah, nah,” to quote some Australian words.
After thinking about it, I also thought that anyone can display red flags at certain moments in time, especially after such a horrible experience. To evaluate properly, as HG has taught us, it’s necessary to look at behaviour over a period of time.
Also, I do think that intense emotions and grief can make a person react in ways that are uncharacteristic of how they ‘normally’ behave in everyday life or what their personality is really like.
To muddy the waters even more, when I think of Erika Kirk’s behaviours after the shooting, I also think she was shaped by her family history, childhood conditioning, and environment. She didn’t just appear out of the blue after living in outer space in some kind of vacuum.
Considering the past two months and the numerous red flags that have appeared in that time, it’s obvious now.
Hi WN,
Thank you for this! You totally understood my dilemma and its exactly how I felt. I struggled because she was a young widow and mother. I can see it clearly now.
Agreed, WN… well said.
Thank you, Jade.
You’re welcome, Leigh.
I thought that way too. I kept thinking about what a traumatic experience it would have been – and still is and will be for a long time – for her and their children.
Leigh, (and anyone else who wants to answer)
You said that your emotional thinking tricked you.
What do you think got corrupted that made you want to believe Erika Kirk was not a narcissist? Was it all imagining yourself in her place? Was there more to it?
We know that Diana, (former) Princess of Wales, was a magnet empath, whose UMR Narc Prince cheated on her. What differences do you as a long-time follower of Mr. Tudor’s work see between Diana’s taped interviews and Erika Kirk’s present behavior? Did you see similarities at the beginning, and if so, what were they?
Just curious.
Good question Dani. I think often my mind goes to “poor them” is someone is grieving so it hasn’t crossed my mind till recently to look out for narc signs, though I think this is often the time where people show themselves…
Hi Dani,
My empathy for Erika wasn’t triggered at first. During her first interview, my first reaction was that I thought it was bizarre. I questioned why anyone would but themselves in a position to be critiqued like that.
It was actually Contagious & AV’s comments that triggered my empathy for her. Contagious pointed out that she was now a young, single mother. AV questioned, how could we know how someone in her position would react. We had few instances to compare it too. Thats when my compassion kicked in and it felt unfair to judge her.
How could I know what she was going through? How could I know how to address the public? I knew she had showcasing as a narc trait because she had been in beauty pageants so the only thing I knew for sure was that she was comfortable being in public. If I was in a similar position would I want to be scrutinized in a similar way?
As far as comparing Princess Diana to Erika, I don’t think their situations are comparable. Its different when someone leaves vs someone is taken from you. Princess Diana’s comments were understandable. But you just made me realize something. I could see the pain in Princess Diana’s eyes. I didn’t see that with Erika.
You’ve also helped me with someone else I’ve been questioning lately. Thank you, Dani.
Hi Leigh,
I would argue that, based on listening to Diana speak about her divorce…that she very much felt the UMR narc was taken from her by the LMR narc. I also think Diana at some points may have realized that her narc husband had never really been “hers.” She said something like…”There were three of us in this marriage. It was rather crowded.” So I am conflicted about Diana’s view of her loss, but I think her perspective evolved as she got away from her “gruesome twosome.”
Regarding:
“How could I know what she was going through?” I don’t think many truly know from experience. “How could I know how to address the public?”
I would guess that TPUSA would have been able to put together something less uncomfortable than what I think she likely wrote for herself.
“If I was in a similar position would I want to be scrutinized…”
I do not think anyone wants to be scrutinized, no matter what place they occupy…and she is cast as tragic widow. I also think there were many proactive steps to avoiding scrutiny that the prime aims rejected in her case. I wonder what a greater narcissist would have done in her place.
Regarding: It was actually Contagious & AV’s comments that triggered my empathy for her.
Fascinating. I wonder how often something like this happens…how much other empaths impact our reasoning with their empathy, making us question logic. Are some empathy more resistant to this type of influence? How variable is it?
Who else have you been questioning?
Sidenote: what are you noticing about Candace? She’s very interesting. Part 9 makes her more interesting… As it could point to empathy or to a more evolved narcissist’s behavior…I hate waiting for the conclusion…but wait I must…
I have no empathy for Erika Kirk, whatsoever. More and more suspicious evidence is coming forward and I believe she’s complicit in her husband’s death. It’s too bad for her she isn’t a better actress at feigning grief. F her.
Fair point, Dani. I hadn’t looked at it like Camilla was taking Charles away from Diana. I can understand why you’re conflicted about how Diana viewed her loss. I wouldn’t be surprised if she was conflicted herself. For me, I was thinking that Charles left of his own volition. He made the choice to leave Diana. Whereas Charlie Kirk wasn’t given a choice.
Your comment about Diana saying there was always 3 of us in this marriage is the comment I was thinking about when I said I saw the pain in her eyes. I didn’t see that same pain with Erika.
I was questioning someone I’ve known for over 40 years. Something happened and I noticed a lack of empathy. But when I really thought about it, I know I’ve seen empathy in her. But in that moment, I was taken aback by the lack of empathy. When comparing Diana to Erika, I realized the person in my life has genuine empathy because I can see it.
I didn’t see genuine empathy with Erika. But my empathy for AV & Contagious made me want to give Erika the benefit of the doubt. There comments made me more sympathetic to her situation. It was fascinating how it happened. Seeing it through there lens changed my perspective.
I agree. TPUSA could’ve put something together to address the nation. Erika could’ve also put out a written statement instead of addressing the nation in a live conference.
I think Candace Owens is a narc. I’ve been wondering where she falls with regards to being unaware or aware. I feel like I don’t see much of a facade with her either. I hope Mr. Tudor gives us her school and cadre too.
“how much other empaths impact our reasoning with their empathy”
Standard empaths and normals are almost identical in the instances where they use cognitive empathy, and it impacts their reasoning. You will be familiar with that. Some questions you have asked in the past regarding emotional empathy are self-evident, because you and others do not -feel- but -think- in those instances when discussing empathy. You want to understand what is self-evident and create a loop of descriptions and demonstrations of how you (the participants in the discussion) felt in all kinds of situations, so you “teach” each other in order to gain assurance that you are empaths with high emotional empathy, without questioning whether it was actually cognitive.
This comes most of the time from the standard schools (including those who are convinced they are primarily something else but are still standard), regardless of the dominant element, where it is sometimes paraded, in some instances even in a 404 way. The discrepancy and cognitive dissonance cannot always be identified through self-reflection, let’s put it that way.
“Are some empathy more resistant to this type of influence?”
People who have a stable sense of self and a few other ingredients can be resistant to influence, whether that stability is based on strong reasoning ability and complex logic or on deep emotional empathy. Such people do not jump on the bandwagon of how others assume they feel or think, whether the influence comes from two-dimensional logic, emotional thinking, or personal preferences, likes, and dislikes.
It does not mean they (stable-sense-of-self-individuals) are always right, because being “right” is still subjective, and they may wish to transfer their own views onto others and become the influence themselves – a tricky part. Perhaps Candace Owens’ challenge: should she come out as an empath or a normal?
In other words: you’re doomed, Dani Stark, unless you develop a strong sense of self of your own, where you do not need to dock onto people’s guidance over your own. Of course, all within the parameters of emotional empathy or cognitive empathy, where you can draw from it in order to keep the boundaries intact.
In addition to my previous comment regarding cognitive empathy, here is an example of a majority standard school applying cognitive empathy, based on one of our discussions on the blog:
Whether it’s a crowded airport or a crowded concert, both environments are low-vibrational, dense places. From your standard perspective, a contagion should not be able to handle crowded, dense environments and should avoid them at all costs. You generalised a contagion’s experience based on your own cognitive reasoning, where A leads to B, which is not supported by the contagion’s actual emotional experience, and this can differ from contagion to contagion.
For contagions, emotionally and mentally A may lead to D, Q, R, etc., because they perceive, feel, and focus differently than a standard. How they reason about their experience afterwards, in order to explain it, may also hit a wall, because their reasoning will not be familiar to you and cannot be backed up by your own emotional experiences, which again differ. What you recognise as familiar, you accept; what is unfamiliar, you reject.
Deep emotional empathy can recognise this variety because of the deeper connection within emotional parameters, not just cognitive reasoning. High cognitive empathy can recognise the same, if it is high-functioning cognitive empathy.
When both are largely absent, either in general or just in that moment, the discussion derails into emotional thinking responses because you speak your truth, which is accurate based on your own experience. Mutual understanding cannot be achieved when you want your own experience to be confirmed. On the one hand, it is what you should do – trust your own experience, as it is accurate. On the other hand, you remain limited to it when you begin to defend it as the only accurate perspective, despite it being a completely different school, essentially just guessing how another school perceives reality, and eventually rejecting it, leaving no room even for a possibility.
For instance, you remembered and focused on the descriptions from the contagion video, such as “burdened,” “overwhelmed,” and that they must retreat. But you did not remember: “to experience and deal with it, being a skilled worker in those emotions, they are placed in a better position to handle it rather than be consumed in the way that the subject was.” This would have explained to you why contagions are also able to cope with dense environments, crowds, noise, and so on.
As a group, however, being in the majority, you confirm your own school experiences and base your sense of accuracy for further analysis on the majority group’s course, thereby creating your own influence in that way.
Another example, specifically for you, Dani, in regard to the use of cognitive empathy, is this. When you basically undertook a friendly survey about the relevant schools you hoped to be placed in on your empath detector results, drilling people about their own results and percentages and running all kinds of questionnaires about how they react in various situations or scenarios, you explained it as a neurodivergent issue you wanted clarity about, which I partly believe. However, over a sustained period, arriving at today, you have shown not to struggle with it at all: you get all the jokes, all the small talk, all the hints and implications, and you also provide a variety of your own, proving how neurotypical you are in reality. Autism seems to play a very insignificant part for you, and your schools are far more significant in your interactions. Either your masking ability is exceptional, or you do not need to mask because you are already very close to neurotypical.
Cognitive empathy is asking people all about their results and wanting to learn about the differences. But when your turn came to provide the same learning opportunity for others in return, you wrote: my lips are sealed about my results; I go along the lines of Mr Tudor’s rules, not telling my results. This is a backstabber move, Dani: a one-way stream of learning opportunity. A comparative learning you profited from receiving but did not want to participate in yourself as part of a shared learning experience.
To be clear, I am not interested in your results and percentages; those are basically written on your and other participants’ foreheads, given the examples you provide within your exchanges.
But by way of comparison between cognitive and emotional empathy: for instance, TS does not provide her results either, but she is not asking others for theirs, because she knows it has to be give and take. Should she ask others to open up, she knows she must be willing to be honest in return, so it is not just her who profits but both parties who are involved. That is based on emotional empathy, whether instinctive or logical.
And please do not fall into explanations of why you did what you did, as your ET would now be triggered by my comment to do so. I am not saying you are a bad person. I know you are a good and empathic person, an intelligent one, valued on the blog, driving the blog and providing support. But keep in mind that when you write things like “I can’t help but notice patterns because it’s one of my special traits,” apply that ability to monitor your own cognitive empathy too, so you can see where it can appear hypocritical, and thus sometimes fake. Sorry to state it so bluntly, but cognitive empathy can sometimes come across as fake and therefore be recognised simply as cognitive, and it’s not only narcissists who engage in it. If you can recognise cognitive empathy in yourself, it also becomes easier to spot it in others, including narcissists. But as long as you assume it is all emotional empathy that you engage in, you are misleading yourself.
Hello Leigh,
I enjoyed reading your reply. I’ve enjoyed all our conversations. Thank you for everything.
Thank you, Dani! I enjoying reading your comments as well. I find then thought provoking. I especially enjoy your questions for Mr. Tudor. I’ve learned so much from his answers.
Hi Dani,
Just read this comment. I don’t believe I was swaying anyone away from logic regarding Erika Kirk. My main goal was to slow people down on the criticisms a bit and allow time for a pattern to be established. It didn’t mean I didn’t see what everyone saw, or have similar thoughts to what others had, I just wanted to give it a little time.
In answer to your question, I do think empaths can sway others just like normals and narcs can. People are swayable, that’s a fact. And I don’t think it’s always a bad thing.
Hi AV,
“People are swayable, that’s a fact. And I don’t think it’s always a bad thing.” – This is so true, AV! Sometimes being swayed is exactly what we needed. Mr. Tudor sways our thinking and thats a fantastic thing!
Hi AV,
I always enjoy reading your comments to me. I agree with you that we should keep to the Mr. Tudor’s often repeated advice, “Go to Evidence” and “We can’t tell from one behavior alone.” NPD is assessed by the NDC by people explaining behaviors they have witnessed over time.
I agree with you that most people want to sway others in some way at some time. And there are many motivations. An empath will argue with a narcissist because they are a truthseeker or if they are more argumentative by nature. Two empaths can argue. Two narcissists can cement. Your comment just made me realize…part of what I was trying to ask is when a statement like, “I’m waiting for more evidence” become a way for self doubt to keep an empath under the power of the narcissist? I don’t think anyone who was urging caution in the early videos about Erika was doing that. Mr. Tudor, whose powerful logic was forged in the fires of Mt. Doom, reminded us in that video did just as you did…
Hi Dani,
Good to read your comment to me. I have enjoyed your comments over the years here also.
I would like to clarify one thing. I did not say that people always “want” to sway others, just that people are swayable generally and it does happen. And sometimes it can be a good thing. In any event, that is a small point and it’s likely true that most of us do want to sway people sometimes, whether or not we take action on it.
Thank you for your reply! 😃
Just dropping in re this.. The eyes are a often a good clue Leigh, aren’t they? 👀🤔
Like a lot of us I’m sure, I felt “cold” watching this one’s wife with Oprah (most of you probably knew she was a narcissist, being here already). I didn’t know then but learnt quite quickly. I just felt no emotion from her about the apparent slights she said she’d endured, just coldness. It was also weird to me that she never stated any of her own flaws. I’ll put quantifiers in, even if I know someone else is in the wrong, to take account for crossed wires, general humanity etc.. she does none of those.
It’s interesting watching these people and seeing the little clues. I think I mentioned I look up HGs clips on YT as they’re very helpful too to see the little body language giveaways. I always think “DOH 🤦♀️” as I know now that I noticed them in previous narcs, I just didn’t know what they meant at the time. We live and learn tho… Thanks HG 🙏
Hi Jade,
You said, “I’ll put quantifiers in, even if I know someone else is in the wrong, to take account for crossed wires, general humanity etc..”
Its such bullshit that we do that. I do the same thing! I’ll take on the blame so I don’t offend the other person. Are they thinking about how they’re offending me though? Nope, not in the slightest.
I think the cold, dead eyes are a giveaway. I have to pay more attention to that. This conversation has helped to remind me that its important to pay attention to the eyes.