Nocturnal Omissions



The bedroom is one of my favourite rooms. One of my ex-girlfriends used to call it the torture chamber. Another called it the freezer. Their appellations amused me. I don’t like to be touched. Dr O has suggested this is because that touch reminds me too much of what I am missing. I laughed at her remark. I prefer not to be touched, so how on earth would I miss that? I soon learned in the bedroom however that there was an expectancy to touch and hold. At first I would go along with this ritual but I soon tired of it and the thought of ‘spooning’ made me gag. I then learned however that my dislike of being touched and touching was actual a very useful weapon. I initially refrained from touching purely because I did not like it. No more. No less. The person in bed with me however would make such a scene about it that I learned they had to be touched or held to affirm that I felt something for them. Accordingly, by withholding any form of contact this would really upset them. It was marvellous. I was able to turn an idiosyncrasy of mine into a tool to cause upset and distress. If I refused to cuddle up (I’m shuddering just typing that) then I would be met with loud sighs and pleading requests. This emboldened me to not even face their way. In fact, I would lie looking at them and then purposefully turn my back on them. Moments later the sobbing would start and I would feel the power flowing through me before I drifted off to sleep. From what they told me, they endured many a lonely night trying to sleep. If they tried to place an arm around me, I would shrug it off or if really irritated (and this was a body blow) I would get up and sleep in the spare room. I love doing this. Not only do I get to really isolate the other person but then I can criticise them in the morning for forcing me from my bed and into the spare room. That gives me a delightful boost as I butter my toast.


99 thoughts on “Nocturnal Omissions

  1. 1jaded1 says:

    I can’t stand being touched and I felt your cringing and shuddering even though you wrote this months ago. Locked in your room? So wrong.

  2. Blood and Thunder says:

    Mlaclarece – I took exception to the drivel that was posted about how letting your kid cry it out will basically completely destroy them for life. As I stated, I let my little one cry it out, but he only cried for maybe 10 minutes for two nights and then that was it. He slept through his nights starting at 4 months old and to this day, has no issues sleeping, etc.

    Nikita – I saw what you did there with your comment “It seems B&H doesn’t like anything that I post” and it made me laugh.

    I speak my mind, very freely, always have and always will. My reaction, my anger, was toward the post itself, not at you, but you already know that.

    You’re painting yourself out to be a victim and that’s okay.

    The other thread, about the commenter who leaves blank comments, annoyed my greatly but that’s largely because I have no patience for banality.

    1. nikitalondon says:

      Thanks for your explanation πŸ‘πŸ»

    2. mlaclarece says:

      To clarify, your comments were mainly to “my” drivel about the very specific unattended crying of the babies in the orphanage then?
      I always appreciate forthright people as I’m a straight shooter myself. However not cool if it comes across caustic and abrasive. People will stop paying attention to the point you are trying to make.
      As for Flower and Rock, she stated in a recent comment that she tags posts she’s very interested in, that way she can follow the comments made throughout the day. It’s ok if she herself doesn’t want to voice her particular thoughts on the subject. She obviously cares deeply about it though.

  3. T says:

    I think we all bring different experiences to this much as they all are the same…they are different.

    One thing is constant… a non N is like dating in black and white. Only N’s bring out the Technicolor in a relationship….and in our lives…sadly,,,

    Life is NEVER a bore with an N.

    1. malignnarc says:

      I have your last sentence as a sticker on the bumper of my car.

      1. nikitalondon says:

        But you can put that sticker everywhere.!!!! 😘

    2. nikitalondon says:

      Well I would not apply that N2. … Was boring…

  4. Nikita – Everyone`s experience is different. You can`t comprehend my experiences, just like I can`t comprehend yours. That doesn`t mean both aren`t valid.

    1. nikitalondon says:

      Of course both are valid and we think differently according to what we have lived and will continue to live.

  5. wakinyan says:

    Nikita – This is why I sometimes think I may have some narcissist tendencies of my own.

    I can relate to a lot of what HG talks about – not having guilt, not having much empathy, etc.

    I enjoy narcissists because they are so dynamic and interesting and charming and just generally fascinating people. I have no problem providing the positive fuel they thrive on because when they want to be, they are truly incredible people.

    But when it goes bad, I tune out. I am a strong and very confident young woman. My self esteem is high and that’s because people in my life are always extolling my positive attributes – beauty, intelligence, wit, etc.

    A narcissist can’t extract negative fuel from me because I am secure enough in myself to not let it happen. I simply move on to something else… they’ll find someone else to tear apart and can come back to me when it’s time to play nice again.

    I guess I nip it in the bud before it gets out of control….I don’t really know.

    I just know I am interested in the seduction side and not really much else.

    Just like trying to deny me sex wouldn’t work because I’d be bored with a man who doesn’t want to make me feel goodnand vice versa so I’d just go find someone else.

    I am trying to figure myself out. Not sure what or who I am but boy is they journey to finding out ever an interesting one.

    1. nikitalondon says:

      Yes pretty strange all what you describe… It just does not work like you are telling it.
      No matter if you have the strongest self steem, if you dont manage to keep it normal, you are heading down and stay there until you have the forces to come up and leave
      For me your description maked no sense.

      1. Nikita – It doesn’t have to make sense to you and it doesn’t really matter to me that it doesn’t.

        As I already stated, I have certain tendencies of my own and as much as I am here because I find HG to be absolutely fascinating and adore his writing, I am here to learn and possibly, figure a few things out along the way.

        I do manage to “keep it normal” as you mentioned in your comment above. For me, normal when dealing with my narc or sociopath friends means I am very clear about what I will and will not tolerate.

        They know I am an excellent source of positive fuel for them. To them, I am valuable for that main reason and they don’t want to lose such a positive fuel-source. That doesn’t mean some of these friends haven’t tried to extract negative fuel from me or break me down – of course they have.

        But they only became angry and frustrated with me when it didn’t work.
        One friend unleashed a tirade of insults at me one evening, just before we were heading out to dinner. My reaction – I stood there, listened to him, blinked a few times and said, “Are you finished? We’ll be late for our reservation.”

        I challenged another when he tried a similar tactic by saying, “You can keep trying all you want, but you’re not going to break me. I’ve been around a lot of your kind and no one ever succeeded before, so highly doubtful you will. Maybe, you’re just not that good.”

        He was in a blind rage and shouted in my face, “It’s your fault I can’t break you, it has nothing to do with me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!”

        To which I responded, “You’re right, it is my fault.”

        Because I KNOW the things he was saying about me are not true. I know (basically) who and what I am. I know I am attractive, so to tell me I’m not when so many others tell me I am, doesn’t work. I KNOW I am intelligent and witty and talented, so again, to try to take me out at the knees by criticizing me in those departments – not going to work either.

        I don’t second guess myself or question myself under normal circumstance and I certainly don’t do it at the whim of my narc friends who simply want to break me for their own gain.

        I have made it clear I will always be a positive fuel source for them. I will praise, cajole, compliment and gush. I will be a willing partner in crime (and in the bedroom) and I will indulge the need for stimulation and risk-taking.

        I don’t expect loyalty or fidelity or love in return but that’s because, right now, at this stage in my life, I don’t want any of that from anyone. I am interested in having fun, surrounding myself with interesting people and doing what I want. That’s it, that’s all. My choice.

        My narc/sociopath friends have plenty of victims to prey upon and. If they need negative fuel, they can go prey on one of them.

        Most of them respect (as much as they respect anything or anyone) that arrangement and are quite happy with it. Those that don’t, I break contact with and move on.

        1. nikitalondon says:

          I see I get it. Yes I never rage, nor scream nor insults but I cry , cry , cry until i am broken. I stick on the subject, i try to understand and i cry… And I discuss in an objective way and I cry… So I learned from ross and even from HG and some others to walk away. So I walk away broken as Somehow when I really manage that its finished I am literally destroyed. I am not able to keep away.. But I have learned alot.. Its different now so lets see.. Maybe things that broke me before,
          Will not anymore.
          Lucky you That can only provide positive fuel.

    2. notquiteanarc says:

      I can relate to what you’re saying. It sounds like we share some of the same traits and therefore are better apt at dealing with N’s in the devaluing stage. I too only am interested in the sexual side of things and because it’s so intense and nothing else compares, I continue to engage with my N.

      1. Thank you, Not Quite, I’m glad you understand.

        It makes sense to me and I get along just fine with the narcs in my life, so I guess that’s all that matters.

        All that to say though, I am not in a relationship with any of them outside of friendship or FWB type arrangements. I have no interest in being with someone who requires that much of my time and attention to function.

        As I already said, I love to provide the positive fuel and can do it all day long. But when the sharp teeth and claws come out, I kindly remind them to go extract the negative fuel from another one of their many victims and, when satiated, kindly return to my bed to give me what I want.

      2. nikitalondon says:

        REally ? The sex ?
        I mean it depends. Cerebrals are not good sex ( according to my experience), the other two types yes,
        And anyway the sexual part is good and it can hook but the strongest hook is the HMS, its this energy, you must feel it also …….. imagine a magnet and you have it and this does not have to do with sex.

  6. I`m also curious to know – have you ever wanted control over someone whom you just couldn`t seem to control?

    I know you`ve said you`ll get bored and just move on to someone else, but what if this person is someone you really, really, really want to trap and ensnare? Does it ever happen that you`ll go out your way to work harder to get what you want, or do you always move on to an easier target?

    There`s lots of talk about easy target here and I`m wondering if that`s why, maybe, you get bored so quickly? Perhaps you simply aren`t being challenged enough and, if you followed through with the challenge, you`d be more richly rewarded than if you simply went after the same boring, easy targets?

    Just a thought….

    1. malignnarc says:


      I will work hard within the parameters of fuel. Thus if secondary sources are performing well and there is negative fuel being drawn from a discarded predecessor,this will assist in sustaining a campaign to ensnare a target which may prove a little resistant, although that rarely happens as the groundwork is usually beneficial in facilitating a successful seduction.

  7. sepultura13 says:

    Interesting…a narc that doesn’t use sex as a weapon! No touching at all? Fascinating…

    1. malignnarc says:

      I do use sex as a weapon. Its application and then its withdrawal are both in the arsenal.

      1. sepultura13 says:

        My ex-fiancΓ©e was that way – his favourite excuse was, “How dare you emasculate me by initiating sex!”
        Always stated before he would run off to whomever he’d met in that week’s back-page personals, LOL

        1. malignnarc says:

          What was your response to his statement?

          1. sepultura13 says:

            Laughing in his face and going out to find my own side fun.

            He didn’t like his tricks turned on him, for some reason…

  8. Should say, sex “for” sex, not sex “or” sex.

    I typed too fast, dammit.

  9. Sex does not always have to be intimate.

    I, for one, am a huge fan of sex, but I absolutely detest the idea that it has very much to do with love. People who view it as some grand expression of love and loyalty….no. Just no. One of the quickest ways to turn me off is to tell me you want to “make love” to me. You can’t “make love.” What a stupid thing to say to someone.

    Sex is something that feels good. It’s fun. It’s a rush. For me, it satisfies a physical need more than anything else.

    That being said, I love to be touched because it makes me feel good. I love to touch, because I know it makes others feel good.

    I am curious then, HG – how would you respond to a partner who just wants sex or sex and doesn’t expect love or anything else in return?

    1. malignnarc says:

      If they just want sex but they will provide positive or negative fuel with it then that suits me fine. If there is no fuel to be gained and they just want the mechanical act then it is a waste of my time. I can get that by sitting and watching some porn. Admittedly if the person does not equate love with sex then this will reduce the effect of my machinations but fuel can be obtained all the same as they admire my performance for example

      1. I`d provide you with all the fuel you want, especially about your performance, etc. if it rocked my world and left me wanting more. If not, I`d simply move on to someone else and you would too, since I wouldn`t be giving you what you crave (fuel – positive or negative).

        But, in my case at least, if you were to start withdrawing what I crave (which would be the sex, the thrill, etc), I wouldn`t be the type to beg you for it. Not ever. I wouldn`t sit at home and wonder how to please you, how to make you give me what I want.

        Nope. I`d go find what I want elsewhere.

        I`ve known a lot of Narcs in my time. They had no problem getting positive fuel from me because they were genuinely very charming, interesting, thrilling, etc. Hence why, even now, I still have Narcs as friends and sometimes, as lovers.

        But when it came time for them to try an extract negative fuel from me for their own gain, it has always backfired. They simply cannot.

        I`ve wondered if I have some Narc tendencies of my own and that`s what protects me when these Narcs have tried to push their devils on me. I`m not sure. I just know it`s never, ever worked. I have a high opinion of myself and no matter what you say or do, you`ll never reduce me to a broken pile of emotional wreckage. Simply not possible.

        1. mlaclarece says:

          If you could bottle that up in pill form I’d sure take that. I value honesty and loyalty so much and about killed myself trying to prove that to JN.

          1. I`m assuming you`re talking to me Clarece.

            Bottle up what, exactly?

          2. mlaclarece says:

            Your ability to not have a care in the world or wonder why the Narc withdrew and re-think everything to figure out how to change it… If that could be made a tangible, I’d be all over it!
            But I’m getting there slowly with H.G.’s books and mentoring!

        2. nikitalondon says:

          I dont know the first person who was in a relationship with an N that did not end destroyed. You managed?? Wow!!!
          Or were they aware and trying to change behaviours and automatisms in the brain?

  10. divined1va says:

    Narc ex H withheld affection/sex most of our marriage, and the last few years he noticeably slept on the edge of the bed, back turned to me and often with a pillow in between us. When I commented about the physical barrier he said it was to help his sore shoulder. I really wonder (and hope) if his new supply (woman he cheated with and is now in a relationship and living with) is getting this yet.

    1. malignnarc says:

      She will in the fullness of time.

  11. D says:

    It’s funny though my narc was never like this… he was very affectionate,never complained about how affectionate I was and a lot of the time initiated it. Maybe he’s like 10% human after all?

  12. T says:

    When I met N3 and visited his home for the first time I was stunned that a 6’2 42 year old single man had his twin bed from boyhood in his master bedroom!

    His guest rooms had twin beds too! I asked him what was up with that! He said when his fiancΓ© moved out he put his King sized bed in storage because he no longer needed it….this was a red flag! Because I knew he was lying…..I think he always had those beds in his home….it was the perfect excuse to avoid intimacy…..he was cerebral. He enjoyed sex only once a week and only once a night!(It was 4 nights a week in the honeymoon period) He didn’t do cuddling or spooning…..If I stayed over, I had to sleep in the guest room. I didn’t know the reasons at the time for any of this….but after reading Sex and the Narcissit….I know now!!! Lol

  13. nikitalondon says:

    Hi HG,

    In all waht I found this is the most relevant on why leaving a baby to cry just becuase he is already fed, changed, and put warm are below. I took out the most important.

    “So there is no responsible way to draw generalizable conclusions from this set of flawed studies. The standards for publishing such studies appears to be very low. In a forthcoming post, we note how many studies use an “Intent to Treat” criterion for distinguishing conditions, not bothering about what actually happened.]
    With neuroscience, we can confirm what our ancestors took for granted—that letting babies get distressed is a practice that can damage children and their relational capacities in many ways for the long term. We know now that leaving babies to cry is a good way to make a less intelligent, less healthy but more anxious, uncooperative and alienated persons who can pass the same or worse traits on to the next generation.

    Ignorant behaviorists then and now encourage parents to condition the baby to expect needs NOT to be met on demand, whether feeding or comforting. It’s assumed that the adults should ‘be in charge’ of the relationship. Certainly this might foster a child that doesn’t ask for as much help and attention (potentially withdrawing into depression and going into stasis or even wasting away) but it is more likely to foster a whiney, unhappy, aggressive and/or demanding child, one who has learned that one must scream to get needs met. A deep sense of insecurity is likely to stay with them the rest of life.

    and another big part stating that it damages the brain, creates stress that might stay until adulthood because nobody find confort in isolation.
    Below the link in case you want to expand more or havea friend who needs to decide if to leave his or her baby crying or not. πŸ™‚

    1. malignnarc says:

      Interesting, thanks for that. I was particularly interested in the assumption that the adults should be “in charge” of the relationship.

      1. nikitalondon says:

        Yes me too I found that interesting. At the time my kids were babies we lived the first two years with my parents in law as my ex was still studying and I could not work due to the baby.
        So both of them insisted That I leave her cry and after a week or so of crying she would not cry anymore.
        Behind this ” in charge ” was their own interests so that they could sleep better, that my ex would not have the obligation of doing something or feeling critizized ( now I know) because he didnt. That my mother in law would not feel I was doing better than her ( She is an N).
        And also because they had been brought up like that. Her mom had let her cry and my mother in law had let him cry.
        We see the results πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚.

        1. What an absolute load of hogwash!

          I have a child and I did the “cry it out” method with him. At four months, I put him down for bed and he cried. He cried for 10 minutes then soothed himself to sleep.

          The next night, he cried again, for about five minutes. The next night, he didn’t cry at all. And do you know what I ended up with? A baby who slept through the night starting at 4 months old! Today, my child is an extremely intelligent (he’s skipped two grades in school), outgoing, well-adjusted boy.

          Yeah, if you leave a child to cry for hours, days or months, you’re going to mess the child up. But using it as a method to teach the child some modicum of self-control, no. Just no.

          Reading that ignited a rage in me I am finding difficult to control.

          1. nikitalondon says:

            Seems everything I post infuriates you. My mom never let us cry and she told me not to let them cry neither. With my first kid I practically let my mom guide me
            As you may see the trauma issue I read.
            In my office there are many people having kids at the moment ( babyboom) and some opt for the not crying and others for 10 minutes or even hours but why should this infuriate somebody else? Its pretty personal I would say.
            By the way my daughter also skipped two years and she will be done in 3 years with highschool. I dont regret not having let them cry. Maybe 10 minutes but not more.

          2. mlaclarece says:

            @Bloodandthunder – was your issue saying hogwash directed at Nikita’s in-laws advocating extended periods of crying? Or at Nikita for opposing it?
            I was unclear when I read your post prior to Nikita’s response.

          3. nikitalondon says:

            I think it was at me. Seems B&H does not like any of what I post…

          4. mlaclarece says:

            Well I just wanted clarification because she said her baby didn’t cry for more than 10 min. So her dismay could have been directed at your in-laws. I went thru 5 years of infertility and a miscarriage in the 2nd term. Like you, I do not subscribe to letting a baby cry it out. There are multitudes of other ways to initiate independence, self-soothing, and coping methods not involving them being upset, left alone, working themselves up to hyperventilating over prooving a point.

  14. says:

    HG this post couldn’t have come at a better time !!

    saw the MN today and he was tactile as ever !! He doesn’t usually go in for that. I didn’t react, just my usual friendly self to him and everyone else.

    I think all his failed hoovers are doing him in Hahha and he is having to try things he’s never tried before!

    I’m sure most people respond to him in desperation, or anger or something but from me, I’m just friendly but never bite it latch on to his hoovers. And all your posts and books have helped maintain my strength πŸ™‚

    1. malignnarc says:

      Thanks for letting me know Alexis. Yes you are right he will be trying different techniques in order to get the required reaction from you. How did you come to see one another?

      1. says:

        We frequent the same watering hole. I see him most weeks. I went NC for about two months, enough time for him to not see he had upset me. When I returned, I was able to be friendly without shooing any rraction but inside it was hard. its no longer hard just normal for me. And I hugely enjoy his Hoover attempts, they have no effect whatsoever on me, other than for my entertainment. it’s been two years since I returned to the watering hole after NC.and I find it funny that he still keeps trying :). He has no choice because of the circumstances to be friendly to me publically anywya. and I’ve always maintained a solid stance. But today was a totally new Hoover method for him. he’s tried various tactics over the two years and because you’ve empowered me HG I feel completely nothing, just enjoyment.

        1. malignnarc says:

          Seize that power Alexis and refer your ex to me for re-education.

      2. Will he ever tire of being ‘nice’ as long as I maintain my distance sufficiently and continue to be friendly without giving into his hoovers (which obviously I won’t). He will always be publically nice, that’s his image ‘Mr Nice’. But will he be plotting and scheming against me behind the scenes ?

        I’m not worried. I always have a contingency. I’m just interested ?

        1. malignnarc says:

          He will have to obtain fuel elsewhere. If you are maintaining your distance so that there is only the occasional interaction between you and him and you are resisting his hoovers there will be a change in the dynamic. You are no longer his primary source. You become a dynamic in him maintaining his façade so he will be pleasant to you to stay being Mr Nice. He will keep applying Benign Follow-Up Hoovers in public but if these are not working then he will be planning to apply Malign FUHs BUT owing to the façade he will have to do this covertly so the façade is not affected. Of course if he has no way of doing so with you he will probably eventually avoid you as he is getting nothing from you and this will irritate him.

          1. Hahha yes !! Okay thanks HG :). Oh he has plenty of other fuel at the same watering hole for certain and elsewhere I’m sure. He cannot be without it for five minutes !

  15. notquiteanarc says:

    I can completely relate! I’m also not a fan of intimacy, an uneasy feeling spreads over me and I feel uncomfortable. Forehead kisses and being made to look into someone’s eyes particularly make me cringe. My dislike for intimate/friendly touch doesn’t just pertain to romantic partners but also to friends. I hate when they hug me but I manage to bare it without making the situation too awkward. I have a high libido and love sex, however I’m quite talented at seeing that any type of “intimacy” doesn’t make it’s way into that arena . I don’t know where this came from since I was raised in a loving family. I also don’t see it as a problem that needs to be fixed, since it doesn’t cause any issues in my life or anyone else’s.

    1. malignnarc says:

      Interesting points NQN.

  16. D says:

    Aahh it makes you feel vulnerable

  17. D says:

    But what about intimacy makes you uneasy? Does it remind you of something bad? Is it because you can not trust? What is it?

    1. nikitalondon says:

      I guess he probably doesnt know why D. There are people who dont like it. Makes them feel uneasy..
      I assume it comes the way you are brought up. Its unfamiliar…
      But maybe HG has an answer.

  18. D says:

    So why don’t you like touch?
    Have you ever been chased to the spare room?
    (That’s something I would do.
    If I don’t get affection.. it’s over! The only time I would withold affection is if I no longer love you and like you, then hugging and kissing you makes me sick! Which makes sense actually since you don’t love anyone!)

    1. malignnarc says:

      The intimate nature of touching makes me feel very uneasy. I haven’t been chased to the spare room no.

      1. D says:

        But why does it make you feel uneasy and not good?
        I should probably read sex and the narcissist. I know you get fuel from sex but sex must also make you feel uneasy then?

        1. malignnarc says:

          Because of its intimate nature. Yes read Sex and the Narcissist as this will assist in explaining the dynamic between the physical interaction and fuel.

  19. MLA-Clarece says:

    I apologize ahead for a lengthier comment. When I hear that you scoff at Dr. O for suggesting you miss touching, as in its purest most intimate form to build trust, I can’t help but think of this story I heard. I am retelling this story from a new mother hearing about a trip a missionary took to Uganda and speaking to the church congregation about it.

    “That missionary was in an orphanage in Uganda, and he has been in many before, but this one was different. He walked into a nursery with over 100 filled cribs with babes. He listened in amazement and wonder as the only sound he could hear was silence. A sound that is beyond rare in ANY nursery, let alone a nursery where over 100 new babes laid. He turned to his host and asked her why the nursery was silent. Then , her response to him is something I will never, ever forget. EVER. This was my “why” moment.
    She looked at him and said, “After about a week of them being here, and crying out for countless hours, they eventually stop when they realize no one is coming for them…”
    …They stop crying when they realize no one is coming for them. Not in 10 minutes, not in 4 hours, and maybe, perhaps, not ever…

    No matter how many times I read this, I am moved to tears. Innocent babies, new to the world and already learning a horrific truth that there is no one for them to trust. Think about that, a silent newborn who in essence has given up. How is that little brain processing that?

    Fact: Studies have shown that between the age of 0 months and 5 years, how a child will develop their ability to trust and bond with other humans is formed and established. Obviously things can alter either way throughout the lifetime. But it is in those early, precious years the blueprint is formed.

    I suspect people who are so detached from the simple enjoyment and closeness of human touch were somehow failed miserably in learning how to build that trust at a time when it was completely out of their control due to their young age and before their cognitive reasoning skills were developed enough to know anything was wrong.

    H.G., when you turn your back and feel power surging through you as you listen to someone sob who merely wants to feel close to you and express that to you in return, it’s like your subconscious is doling out punishment for what you really are missing. Dr. O is on to something and you should investigate that more with her.

    1. malignnarc says:

      Interesting Clarece but isn’t it the case with a baby that their alarm-like cry is designed to provoke a response so they are fed, changed, cuddled etc and if all the above has been done and there is nothing “wrong” with the baby then one would refrain from seeing to them, picking them up etc in order to teach them that there are times where the baby has to self-soothe and realise that just crying for attention will not work? Mind you, if my “carer” does not come when I cry out for attention I just find a new one.

      1. nikitalondon says:

        I read about this also and it says its so wrong to leave a baby unattended when he cries. It creates traumas. I never did that with mine.

        1. malignnarc says:

          Interesting, why is that? If there is nothing wrong with the baby – he or she is fed, winded, changed, has been cuddled, had a story read to him or her etc, why can the baby not be left alone? I am interested to know and why this causes trauma.

          1. nikitalondon says:

            I dont know why, I did not get to that point but I will look for. When a baby is born this is an endless discussion inbetween couples.
            Mine are way past that phase now ( thanks God) but I still hear it from every single new parent in my office. The dilema if to let the baby cry if he is fed, changed and warm or go pick him up.
            The last studies, I heard from my dear colleagues who are becoming parents is that its traumatic for the kids because some can cry up to 3 hours non-stop.
            I did not even get to the reading point. I decided mine would not cry and me alone went to get them.
            But I will try to find something and comment if I can find something.
            By the way HG in a previous post I posed a question on a girl who incredibly wanted to seek attention in a party and I was supposed to find out more details about her, well I did make this call and did not get much only that she is hyperactive, attention seeking and had many very toxic relationships… But we cant conclude from there and she has moved to Sweden in the meantime.

          2. malignnarc says:

            Unlucky for Sweden I guess.

          3. nikitalondon says:

            Hmmmm it depends on the perspective 😜

          4. malignnarc says:

            Very good.

      2. nikitalondon says:

        Would you like HG to learn to like to be hugged and if its not too much to ask to be cuddled? All oversensibilities can be treated. I mean if you say you can have the oversensibility under control when you are seducing then there is a chance ….
        I say it just because its really so important for physical and mental health to hug and cuddle. Im not saying you have to become latinamerican but at least to learn to like it from time to time…would improve the postive love hormones.
        Does uncle peter like to hug?

        1. malignnarc says:

          How do you learn to be hugged? I don’t need to be hugged or cuddled. Is it not a case of you either like it or you don’t. Like Marmite?

          1. nikitalondon says:

            I dont know how you learn but therapist recommend it for people who dont like to hug. Its a scientific article HG, not my idea.
            I love to hug so this is why I insist, but its okay if you dont also. Of course if you dont need it then you dont have to.
            I hate marmite 😝

          2. malignnarc says:

            I hate Marmite too. The Devil’s Earwax.

          3. nikitalondon says:

            That is the best name everπŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚
            Devils earwax. Cool.

      3. MLA-Clarece says:

        Hello H.G. Let’s see for starters, did you note that the orphanage was in a third world country? I have 2 friends who adopted baby girls from China also. The conditions of these “orphanages” maybe have 2-3 caretakers attending to over 20 babies each. The babies may only get fed once a day. My friend’s baby, under the age of 18 months was tethered to a pole during the day so as not to run off after she could walk. The same child even up to the ages 4-5 used to hoard food in her mouth after being full from eating so as to have something for later if hunger struck. A learned behavior from being a baby prior to her adoption at 18-20 months. It took that long to wean her off.
        Another debate though for another day. It was an extreme example to show how the tone of building trust and intimacy happens immediately upon birth and during infancy.
        The parent who adopted baby Rachel (the little Chinese girl), was instructed by her social worker that during the first six months, at a time of day that was comfortable for her, to lay her baby naked on her naked chest during a rest period. Because my friend was not her natural mother and did not breast feed or do those early feedings during her infancy, it was a way for baby to connect, feel closeness, establish trust, hear her mother’s voice soothingly talking to her, hear her mother’s heartbeat. All things to bring comfort to the baby and cement the bond for the mother. It establishes INTIMACY.
        With regard to your question on self-soothing if all of baby’s needs are met (considering we are not talking about 3rd world orphanages at this point).
        To understand self settling / soothing, you have to understand the psychological concept of “emotional self regulation” which is the individual processing or regulating his / her emotions in learning how to cope to a situation.
        An infant’s brain isn’t developmentally ready or equipped to take on such a concept on its own. Self soothing is a developmental stage, a skill that infants gain as they grow older, just like learning to walk, starting to eat solid foods, etc.
        Self soothing for a baby is best when letting a baby cry for a couple moments rather than instantly running at the first cry-out and seeing if they can settle themselves. For instance finding their pacifier in their crib on their own instead of you getting it for them. Letting a baby cry for hours on end is traumatic. Even if diaper, feeding, all seemingly needs are met, their stomach could be upset, teething may be setting in. Not everything is visible. COMFORT your child. You are letting your child know you are there for them no matter what. Those infant months are gone in a blink of an eye. Suck it up and hold your child.
        My point to all of this, is the power of human touch in a non sexual way creates trust and intimacy leading to unconditional love. Learning to have that with an intimate partner as well can be more important than the sexual side of things.

        1. malignnarc says:

          Thanks Clarece and duly noted. My thought was that if all has been done and there is no visible or understood need for the baby then there surely isn’t any harm in letting him or her cry for a while (I don’t mean hours – something is obviously wrong if that happens) and then he or she would settle down. IN the way that a baby learns if he or she cries someone will come, I wondered if it would also realise if nobody comes after a short while then the baby can settle down. Was the baby tethered to a pole because there was nobody available to stop her running off? I used to be locked in my bedroom until I had completed my school work and chores such as putting my clothes away, tidying my room and so on. No pole though ( not that I remember anyway) I did not have a dummy (pacifier) I was told later by my mother that using them creates “docile idiots”.

          1. mlaclarece says:

            Sorry, I just saw this answer too.
            Locked. In. Your. Room.
            No wonder you are the over achiever you are today. I want to refrain from saying too much here. My opinion of that would be too harsh for this setting. I imagine once I read your upcoming Matri-narc book on Mommie Dearest, it will establish that your mother and I are at opposite ends of the spectrum.

          2. nikitalondon says:

            Wow that was tough discipline and yes that makes the overachievers. Definetly.
            Your mami and me also very different.
            My dad was also brought up witj lots of discipline but as he was never home I did not have that πŸ˜ƒ

          3. mlaclarece says:

            To answer the earlier questions…
            The tethering was done daily, for hours on end because not enough caretakers to see to it if a baby / toddler ran off. Baby Rachel (to follow up) went to a beautiful family where she had an older brother and sister. Her parents are teachers with theatrical backgrounds. Her life has been filled with love, music, good education, and three meals a day. A very happy ending there.
            I think babies in normal settings (not 3rd world orphanages) eventually cry themselves to sleep out of exhaustion. This, if parents are trying that and not going in after a few minutes. In the orphanage settings, I believe it becomes the wiring of the developing brain to not bond, form trust and have given up that anyone else will be there for them. As clearly evident in the silent Uganda nursery.

        2. nikitalondon says:

          I liked this info alot clarence, very interesting on the adopted babies.

    2. T says:

      πŸ˜ͺ……MLA, this made me teary…..

      Children in the hands off N’s coming out normal is a crap shoot….

      My mom and I visited my favorite cousin in the hospital today after church. His mother is Aunt N, a N I strongly suspect….(99% sure of it)

      My cousins heart is wore out at age 47 due to all of the drugs he used to cope from her abuse his whole life…..

      Aunt N has appeared to be the perfect mom for the last 2 days because she’s been at his bedside….
      However, today when she walked into his room and saw me, my mom, his ex wife and kids there at his bedside she flew into a rage? She blamed his ex for “driving him to drugs” during their teenaged marriage years….and that is why his heart is bad now….?! Wrong–his wife is far from perfect….but she loved him as best she could…he was so damaged by his N mother….*smh*

      Aunt N then called my cousin a liar and accused him of “faking” it just so he could get some attention?!!!

      She then dramatically stormed out!

      My cousin and all of us are used to her dramatics…we laughed it off…..

      My cousin then said, ‘you know….I think my mama’s just mad because I have so many visitors’


      (He will be fine. He’s getting a pacemaker)β€οΈπŸ‘πŸ½πŸ˜€πŸ‘πŸ½

      1. mlaclarece says:

        Hi T! I always appreciate your comments to me. Had you realized your Aunt was a Narc prior to finding this blog and associating your ex’s with being Narcs? I literally have gone through some kind of transformation since finding H.G. (thankfully and he knows it). It’s like I’m hyper-sensitive or have a sixth sense now to honing in on these types of personalities – with past people I used to know and now meeting new people. They are literally everywhere like everyone on the blog says. lol

        1. T says:

          Good Morning, M.! I always suspected she was a borderline….or bipolar. However, I’ve noticed she can discard people–even family without any problems…I’m sure she’s an N.
          She is the youngest girl of 9 kids. She was spoiled rotten because of poor childhood health…and I think that is how she became an N She wasn’t supposed to live past 20 (juvenile diabetes). She pushing 60! lol. Sad thing is…my grandparents are dead now….and they thought she was adorable….problem is NONE of her siblings think she is adorable…I soothe her to try to keep the peace in the family because that is most important…
          Yesterday’s dramatics upset me at the hospital…because now I can totally empathize with my cousins pain…I won’t ever tell him the truth about his mother..not sure he could handle it.
          However, it is so sad how she yo yo’s him back and forth with love and hatred….just wanting to be loved.
          I always wondered why my mom and other aunts and uncles doted on my cousin and attempted to take custody of him in his childhood(grandparents stopped this–they felt it wasn’t right)….now I know….they don’t know she’s an N….they just think she’s crazy and selfish….

  20. bethany7337 says:

    That’s so hard to understand HG! Like impossible. I don’t like to be touched only when I go to sleep but I love touch any other time! And affection is something I love to give…that wound be an immediate deal breaker!

    Do you reveal this during the seduction phase? Detesting touch is surely difficult to conceal! No?

    Goodness gracious!

    1. malignnarc says:

      No it is not revealed during seduction, the lashings of positive fuel allow me to overcome the problem.

      1. nikitalondon says:

        So its a temporary problem ? πŸ™„

  21. Well I’m with you on that one, I hate to be touched hugged, spooned in bed. My husband still after all these years tries to and is always met with an elbow or a knee. So j would have been only too happy for you to go in he spare room and sulk away. I would have happily touched you purposely so you did up and leave.

    1. malignnarc says:

      You made me laugh with that comment Alexis. Bit harsh elbowing or kneeing your husband! Mind you once I had worked out you wanted me to go in the spare bed I would stay just to annoy you.

      1. Hahahha well then you’d be very bruised HG ! Or I’d pretend to love your affection in bed ! No one messes !

        1. malignnarc says:

          You are a real ball breaker Alexis!

    2. nikitalondon says:

      The funny starts again. πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚

    3. nikitalondon says:

      Really Alexis you too….i cant imagine this. I think this doesnt exist in latin america. I have never heard. Peole touch each other all the time. Even in the streets.
      Its the touching continent.
      If my husband would not like to touch then I need a big teddy bear in bed with us.

      1. An nikita, I loved to be touched, kissed, hugged. Affection is very important to me. Just not when in in bed haha. Sleep is my biggest source of fuel πŸ˜‰

        1. nikitalondon says:

          I see! Okay sound better ( from my perspective) and sleep is also my main fuel and I do need my space to sleep but cuddling 10 or 5 minutes after going to bed, or after bed activities 😜 Is also nice. But yes its true I could not sleep holding anybody the whole nite and not only that I need space.
          But sometimes if I woke up in the middle nite I like to have somebody to touch one minute before falling asleep again… At the moment the person is replaced by a long long pillow, not even the big teddy bear.

          1. πŸ™‚ πŸ™‚ πŸ’‹

  22. nikitalondon says:

    HG that is a low blow… critics for forcing the other person to go to the guest room 😒. But I know you wont feel remorse nor sadness..
    Anyway you cant imagine what you are missing in life by refusing to cuddle.
    I will not publicly write about on how I like to cuddle but I tell you, you miss something.
    Remember there are this learn to cuddle services… Free or paying 😜.
    There is lots of theory on the HUGE benefits of hugging and cuddling and spooning !!!!

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