Blind or Stupid?
We love to triangulate. Three is the magic number. You, me and someone else or something else. Another victim? A competitor? A loyal lieutenant? A fresh prospect? An imaginary individual? A threatened event? An inanimate object? There are so many combinations of triangulation that are available to us and each has their own advantages and rewards for their application for us. In this equation there will always be us, there will always be you and then there will be third party. One of our effective manipulative triangulations involves the “normals”. These are people who are neither empathic or narcissistic but people who are generally decent, sensible and largely kind who may be supporters of yours, they may be members of our façade but whatever they are they are not you and they are not us. These are the people who you turn to when you can no longer stand what is happening to you. When you cannot understand what is going on. When the confusion becomes overwhelming. When you begin to sense something is not quite right. You turn to these normal in the hope of them helping you, understanding your plight and/or offering some insight. This is rarely achieved because you are met with responses which leave you wondering whether the person you have just spoken to is blind or stupid. Here are ten instances of this in action.
- I don’t believe it
Victim – “He is horrible to me, he never lets me do anything on my own anymore, he shouts and calls me awful names.”
Normal – “Really? I just can’t see Nigel behaving like that, he is always so lovely and friendly whenever I see him. I cannot believe he would do that.”
- Are You Bringing It On Yourself?
V – “I am sick of him controlling me. I try and assert myself, you know, lay down some boundaries, but he is always telling me to shut up and calm down and doing what he wants without any consideration for me.”
N – “Well you have always been feisty my dear, maybe you are provoking him and that’s why he is behaving that way. I don’t mean to be unkind but you do have a bit of temper you know.”
- Not This Again
V- “He has done it again. Disappeared. I have been ringing him on the hour every hour and he won’t answer. I don’t know what it is. I mean, everything seemed okay when we got up this morning, he smiled and asked me if I wanted a cup of tea (cue detailed analysis of every word and interaction thereafter)
N – Glazes over, thinks to themselves “Not this again. I am bored of hearing this. They will be talking again by tomorrow. She worries over nothing.”
- I Feel Sorry for Him
V – “So he did this, then that, then this again and he always does this you know. He is horrible, Horrible I tell you. I don’t know what to do. Oh he did this as well and some more of that.”
N – Thinks to themselves “I feel sorry for him putting up with someone so neurotic as her. No wonder he clears off for a few days, probably needs the peace and quiet.”
- Someone Is Exaggerating
V – “No word of a lie, he locked me in the bedroom and threatened to burn the house down with me inside and I heard him laughing as he said this to me. I am so scared of him. He keeps threatening to kill me. He rings me at work and comments about how my brakes are dodgy and laughs and puts the ‘phone down.”
N – Thinks to themselves “Sure he does, nobody goes on like that, I do like my friend but she is something of an attention seeker. Every other day there is one of these stories.”
- I Don’t Think So
V – “So he said that if I didn’t do it he would tell everybody in the church that I was sleeping with the vicar and he would post pictures of me on the internet.”
N – “Who Norman? No way, he is such a solid and respectable man. I don’t think he would ever do anything like that. No, I have known him years, he would never do anything like that.”
- He Did Say She Was Crazy
V – “He hides my purse so I cannot go out, he tells me what I can and cannot eat, he won’t allow me more than a minute in the shower and stands watching me while I wash. He follows me around the house and keeps staring at me, I can even feel him watching me when I manage to slip out for a while. I know he is following me.”
N- Thinks to themselves “It’s just as Neil predicted. He said she was losing her mind and coming out with all these fantastic stories. He is genuinely worried about her and I can see why now. Poor thing. Poor him too.”
- Ups and Downs
V – “He sometimes doesn’t speak to me for days on end. He just sits and sulks and ignores me. It is horrible. I hate it.”
N- “Oh that’s just men for you. They all do that at some point. It’s part of the ups and downs of being in a relationship, just ignore it and get on with your day, he will soon come round, you will see.”
- Don’t Involve Me
V- “Hi it’s me, can I come round to see you. I need to talk to someone. He is doing it again. He has spent the last two hours shouting at me and throwing plates around the kitchen. I am sick of this, I cannot cope.”
N – “I’d love to help but I er, have an appointment. Look I have to go; I will call you later” – I’m not getting drawn into their domestic dramas I have my own life to look after.
- I Haven’t a Clue
V- (After lengthy description of a catalogue of odd and strange behaviour) “So what do you think, what should I do? I cannot go on like this.”
N- “I don’t know what to say really, I can’t work out why he would be lovely with you one week and then awful the next, it does add up. Perhaps if you sat down together and tried to work things out.” (I haven’t a clue what is going on here.)
Not once does the “normal” turn to you and say,
“You are being abused by a disordered person.”
Or
“You have been ensnared by a narcissist.”
Instead when you describe the behaviour to a “normal” you are met with one or more of the responses detailed above. We know this will be the case. We know it will leave you hurt, bewildered and lacking the help and insight you so desperately need. Why do people respond like this?
- Lack of knowledge. Fortunately for our kind few people really know what we are and what we do.
- We don’t walk around with a sign around our neck stating “I am an abusive narcissist”. We blend in. People think the psychopaths and sociopaths appear like some crazed axe-murderer. We do not.
- People although kind are not empathic like you. Therefore, there is a limit to the time and resource they will apply to assisting you. People are inward looking and care more about their own lives than yours.
- The façade. Our charm and magnetism has people believing us to be wonderful and decent people. That façade is hard to shatter.
- Your coping abilities are eroded and you are worn out. This makes you appear unhinged, hysterical and thus in keeping with the image that we have spread around that you are The Crazy One.
- A Quiet Life. People do not like conflict. They want people to get on and do not want to become involved in other people’s problems.
- Behind Closed Doors. People always take the view that there are two sides to every story. They will listen to you but they will think there is likely to be some explanation which means it is not as bad as you are making it out to be. You are provoking the abuser, you are making it up, you are being too sensitive and taking things the wrong way. The “normal” thinks life may be different behind closed doors.
- People want other people to get on and therefore in order to try to preserve the peace they will suggest that the behaviour is not as bad as has been suggested and pressure the victim to go home and sort things out, unaware it is not something that can be sorted out by having a chat and a cup of tea.
- The tales of abuse and awful treatment seem far-fetched that the “normal” cannot believe them. They have no experience of it and combined with the existence of the façade just cannot see how someone could behave in this way.
All of this results in you trying to persuade people without success which becomes all the more frustrating and distressing for you. Naturally, we know fine well how people will respond to your protestations and the lack of understanding and knowledge about our kind allows us to blend in, move freely around and continue to behave in this manner with impunity. You are left wondering if the listener is blind or stupid. They are not stupid. But they are blinded to what we really are.
Just like you were as well.
39 thoughts on “Blind or Stupid?”
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Wow. Just wow. You help me understand so much. I was trapped for 12 years, but sadly feel a bit stuck as I had 3 children with him. One died and the other two are still pre-school and 5 years. I’m educated struggling but moving on without discussing this is hard even though im a very strong person. How the hell do you deal with kids (he never wanted to look after but now does cos I want them) and all the assets he’s taken. He’s trying to break me still in all senses.
Reblogged this on NarcMagNet69x96.
This is an amazing post. You nailed exactly what happens.
Thank you LO.
As a codependent, I had to have others tell me they didn’t like how I was being treated, even children of friends, would comment, how nice I was and they didn’t “get” how I ever ended up with my narc. I just thought they meant he was more blunt, and assertive/aggressive while I was sweet and passive. I made the excuses, I was a pro at that. By the time I started waking up to it, I didn’t need to say any of the above to anyone, if I did hint at something they would respond, “I know, I don’t know how you put up with it so long.” I felt ashamed like everyone for years probably just shook their head, and thought that girl is blind, I do not know how or why she puts up with it. Even outside circle friends of his during our separation contacted me privately and revealed they had mentioned to others about him, “he’s going to lose her if he doesn’t change.” The above comments from normal people are actually what I told myself to remain loyal to the love of my life, I wouldn’t couldn’t believe he was a monster, even when it was right in front of my face, queen of self denial, ahhh the golden gold of the damaged codependent right HG?
I am extremely happy to be recovering and understanding my part in the dance. I feel lucky I can’t imagine being told the above in the midst of horrific abuse.
Self-denial is a powerful method of sabotage.
Yes , yes, just shared this on my page…………
The Convalescent Codependent
9 mins ·
The Drug of Denial
Fear creeps, slowly and quietly, spreading his infectious potency reaching every nerve, unloading his poison into my gut, and seizing logical thought. First he comes along to hang around nonchalantly, he feels familiar and I hardly notice him and because of this he is offended. In a flash he turns the insides of me upside down in a violent storm of emotions and attacks. Fear refuses to be ignored. FIGHT OR RUN DAMN IT, he screams into every fiber of my being, hurling any sense of safety into oblivion. I freeze. Fear has me locked into his cage, he grows stronger as he loves the power he has over me. This cannot be real, I cannot accept this, I wont, I refuse to allow fear to make me move, I cannot succumb to his will, I must make him go away. He just needs to go back to sleep in the dark hole he came from, yes, that is all, there is no reason for alarm, no reason for all this upset, my, my, there, there, not all is as it seems, nothing could ever be that bad, not as ugly as old fear likes to paint it. All I need to do is drink another cup of denial. Denial will numb old dumb fear, and calm the hurricane brewing. Now I can feel okay again, see it was all in my head, a false alarm, I am safe, there is after all no such things as monsters! My denial feels SO good, numbing, soothing, comforting, rationalizing, settling the bubbles that fizz in my gut, helps me sleep better at night, my this drug is a cure all! Look even my once red puffy eyes now look suddenly cleansed and refreshed, yes, I think I will stock up my medicine cabinet with this denial stuff, I will need it and lots of it, for I know Fear will be back and I never know just when.
I do prefer relationships with narcissists. I like very intelligent, well educated, perceptive and confident people and these are often Ns. Non-Ns seem to often be more narrow-minded and judgmental. I have always had many unusual beliefs and lifestyle choices and the Ns in my life are very open-minded and tolerant. Ns don’t try to fix me or save my soul.
I avoid greater Ns bc I find how they treat people frightening. I am very empathic and feel almost physical pain whenever I see someone hurt in any way. I also understand myself and my limitations very well and know how difficult, painful and abusive it would be if I became entangled by a malignant N. My mid level Ns create enough pain and chaos. I don’t need any more! 😉
Thanks for expanding Windstorm. You see, we are just misunderstood really by those narrow-minded and judgemental non-Ns.
Oh yes that right…………….N’s are just misunderstood, isn’t that the kind of thinking that gets us compassionate’s in trouble in the first place?
Hey, how am I responsible for what you think? (Rather a lot as it happens)
You are not responsible. I am responsible for me and this is how I take my power back. I take accountability for my choices, even if I was conned, I do own the fact I knew something was wrong all along. “He’s just misunderstood” RED FLAG. If I am thinking that way its time to walk away. If he is saying that, RED FLAG, walk away.
Pay attention to the FLAGS in the first few minutes of meeting someone!
Some narcs are idiots judge mental tal like mine not to mention boring
Many times people don’t respond well when they are told they are being abused. It’s what the abuser bargains for. Abuse is what happens to other people…no?
That’s true but of course that is directed towards the victim whereas here it concerns the third party, but yes, you are right.
Yes, I know. I had a convo with best friend this weekend. Friday marked the 1 year anni of her escape. While she was with her narc, I kept telling her that things were not right and that she was being abused…because been there. She basically told me to STFU…that I was projecting. Now, because of your expertise I’m telling her more. She thinks she is undesirable bc he hasn’t hoovered her…they have known each other for decades so I told her to give it time…She gets jealous bc my N has contacted me again, even though she has been on the receiving end of him trying to isolate me and she knows what he will try to do if I make contact. I told her blunt straight up with a poker face that he never loved her in the way she wanted…the ring was a carrot and etc. She wants to meet him in the street and tell him off. I told her he would get fuel from that unless she did it with a poker face as well. We talked about so much more. I told her to visit you as you can explain it so much better. You are almost at 900k. I’m giddy for you. Next time I see you, you will likely have conquered that milestone.
OMG, HG! Your kind is all over California! Lol!
This post is so timely!
I introduced my favorite widower uncle to a “friend” 18 months ago. My uncle was happily married to a lovely woman for 25 years….until she passed away from ALS 3 years ago😟.
He and his son mourned my aunt’s death…his son took a year off college…and my uncle moved on quietly and adjust to being a widower by getting involved with family and church activities for over a year.
Well, silly me….introduced a nice lady his age I knew from church to him. Actually, I had a BBQ and invited them both. I didn’t want to “push” them together, but I knew they both enjoyed travel and wine tasting, and they’d get along.
Well, last summer he brought her to the family reunion held in Chicago. She acted like someone I didn’t know half the time (like her mask was slipping because of lack of total attention). I didn’t think she was a Narc…just self centered…. I was fooled AGAIN!!!
He finally dumped her crazy behind…and she has embarked on a Facebook smear campaign!!!😡😡😡😡!!! Against my favorite uncle?! She has accused him of being an abusive head case?!
She can say what she wants about me–but NEVER my family!! My uncle cared for his wheel chaired wife w ALS singlehandedly for over a year! Bathed her, fed her, and carried her in his arms up and down stairs without any help!!! He’s is a sweet and caring man! He just doesn’t dig selfish women because my dear sainted grandma raised sons that would never settle down with a woman like her, because they were not raised by someone like that!
This woman had the nerve to message me with lies about my uncle…calling him ugly names and she actually thought I’d take HER side against my family?! I blocked her!! I know my uncle…he’s like a second father to me!
My uncle says that they are over, but this morning on his way to church she was parked around the corner of his house?! Wth?!
Should we take legal action against her?!
Thanks, HG!❤️
In terms of legal action T what are you thinking of? Restraining her for harassment? Suing her for defamation of your uncle? I have in my mind your answer to this next question already but I would be interested to see if I am right. You are a feisty lady and you are very loyal when it comes to matters of the family (your previous posts have made this clear). When the lady in question messaged you, why did you block her rather than fight back and set her straight?
I did fight back, HG. It’s just that she wouldn’t shut up! I told her I knew she was a flat out liar…and that I knew my uncle better then anyone else in my family. She just keep sending me messages calling him a head case. I then told her that she would ruin our friendship if she didn’t stop with the slander and if she didn’t stop harassing me with these lies…she came back even stronger….it was important to her that she convince me otherwise!!! She has friended about 100 members of our extended family on Facebook and they are seeing all of this–luckily, they know my uncle…and they never really liked her anyway….they tolerated her….I knew she wanted me to break and call him to tell him about this slander (he doesn’t do social media). However, I wasn’t going to do that….because thats what she wanted me to do! He’s not mad at her–but he refuses to rekindle the romance. He wants to find a nice wife like his last one…and he gave this woman a year and a half to get it together….but she’s extremely selfish! I didn’t hold her past 3 divorces against her….but in retrospect that should have been a clue….
She’s furious she can’t control him anymore…he’s a quietly strong man…but like most men…unlike us women….they don’t try to fix someone that disrespects them…they end the relationship.
I’ve heard that she has stopped the bad post about my uncle…he’s been told by other family members what she was up to… And they just think she’s a head case.
However, her creeping my uncles house does bother me a little…but he’ll have to take a restraining order…
Yes, saw the signs but I have always enjoyed narcissists. This one now is a covert narcissist and very shy and easily flustered and that threw me at first. I’m used to overt, in-your-face narcissists. My few non-narc friends thought he was wonderful, but my family was on to him at once.
It’s been my experience that if you are not deceived by a narcissist and make that apparent, there is no seduction period. What’s the point? It’s just a waste of energy on their part. So I’ve never had one of the golden periods you describe so often.
I enjoy providing positive fuel, but I am at a time in my life where I am no longer willing to provide negative fuel, so I’ve had to give up any hope of an intimate relationship (since it seems like an irrestiable temptation for all narcs if they spend too much time with you – like a cat with a mouse). He is mid level and not at all malignant. I hope to keep a friendship type relationship with him. Time will tell.
I have learned a lot from your blog and books to help me figure him out and better understand him. He is ridiculously reactive to criticism (my family pick and snark at each other constantly and learn as children to react with dark humor to avoid being seen as weak) and you have helped me to understand his different thinking. Thank you for your writing.
Thanks for fleshing that out Windstorm, you have evidently got a good understanding of what you are engaging with. I understand your comment that you have always enjoyed narcissists, there is much to be enjoyed with our kind in terms of our magnetism, brilliance, charisma and all round entertaining nature although it is interesting that you have engaged with a mid-range who will be less of these things, but not absent them completely. Do you prefer (given that you understand more about how we operate than most people) to be in some kind of relationship with our kind than with a non-N? If so, why? I am pleased you have enjoyed my writing and hope that you continue to do so.
Yes
Very interesting view on the normal people. Its a subject rarely discussed in the blog.
The answers were surprising because they do sound really not what an N or a Cod would say to someone in sufferement.
My mother whom I think is a recovered codepednat. Would give answersylike this is some particular occassions. Once my dad died she has set up lots of boundaries so I wonder if recovered codependant will also somewhen tend to normality and act like ” blind” to a situation they went through and have left in the past.
It was really great to read 😍
While this is probably true most of the time, I was born into a family full of narcissists and married into another one. No one spots a narc as fast as another narc. While my relatives are not emotionally supportive, they are always aware of how I am being used/deceived so I never feel isolated like you describe. They have always been very protective. It was my father-in-law many years ago who explained to me about gas lighting, projection and codependence. He didn’t want his grandchildren to not have a functional mother. Now that I am embroiled in a new narc relationship, my grown children and even ex husband are right there watching like hawks. So perhaps there is benefit in having narcissists in ones life – you just have to have enough of them! 😄
Fascinating. Since you have so many people with their narc senses attuned (and I agree that the Greater of our kind can sniff the others out in an instant, the Mid-Range have a good idea too, the Lesser gets flummoxed) and alerting you to other Ns why engage in a relationship with one? Presumably the early warning sirens went off during seduction?
Why engage with a N? For fuel. How does the fuel from a midrange and lessor N compare with the fuel from a typical codependent?
The fuel from a co-d is way beyond that which would be provided by a Mid-Range or a Lesser. The Mid-Range does not give out much fuel at all because he or she has a reasonable control on their emotional output and anything they do show is largely manufactured which is no good. The Lesser, being prone to outbursts and lacking control will provide some fuel because their anger and rage is genuine but the positive fuel they provide is manufactured emotion and of little use. The Co-d however is a supertanker full of fuel.
Thanks for this HG, whilst I’m sure it is a very accurate portrayal of the kind of responses most people would give I have not really come across this first hand.
That’s because in my encounter with narc #1 I kept my counsel prefering to deal with things alone. I knew I was being abused and was ashamed to tell anyone. The only people that I ever discussed it with were medical staff and police on the occasions that I had to attend hospital. They did believe me as often they witnessed his behaviour.
I have come across the attitudes you decribe when dealing with social care over my son’s behaviour. They found it easier to attribute it to my “poor parenting”. Only, after 5 years of no support, was it finally acknowledged that he had a problem, when his school and respite carers were having the same difficulties as myself.
Out of interest, what would you advise victims to do to engender belief in others and gain support?
Thank you CR12. You can find my observations about how to deal with this in Smeared.
Thanks HG, I’ll add that to my reading list. I’m ploughing through your books…think I’ve read most of them now.
I’m obliged.
Precisely, it is abuse. It can not be defined otherwise. Excellent article for those who doubt or fail to see the true dynamic of such entanglement and the toxic effect it has on the person ensnared by a Narcissist. To understand for themselves and to be understood and helped by others.
This is a validating article HG.
I have listened to your interview four times to date. I have sent it to four people. Right now a friend is listening and finds it fascinating. (He is a potential normal relationship for me but I wanted him to know what I have experienced the past 8 months.)
I am so excited to hear more interviews.
Your loyal Minion #1 out of 12,497. (did you notice how many hits)
Thank you Steeviann. Yes there will be more interviews. I am not sure when but of course I shall keep you posted. You are not a minion by the way.
Thank you for spreading the news. I am interested. The friend who is listening to it now, is this someone you envisage a potential romantic relationship with?
Possibly, the attraction is there. I will see him when I return from Stockholm.( I am requesting peppermint tea) We talk, text, Skype for now. He lives in California and I am in Sin City. But I am able to travel and such.
This would be our only drawback, the distance. But I am OK with it for now. I feel safe.
I say I am a minion in jest. But maybe it is a dark desire in myself created from my own demons. Perhaps.
I discovered my Narc in a matter of weeks. But true to our nature, I wanted to help but also there was a great physical attraction for me and a mind attached. My therapist said he would cut me loose very quickly due to me being a handful and too many people of support around me. All true. And besides he lives on the east coast too. Harder for him to gain control. So in stating these facts, I have not been a minion to anyone………love/lust sick would be more like it.
I wish you happiness in your new relationship, Steeviann.
Not in a hurry for anything other then healthy interactions with healthy minds.
I have encountered every one of these responses. My friends are weary of me. They don’t understand why I didn’t end it years ago.
When they pull away sometimes it feels like I have been left in the ocean without a life preserver. “We know you can swim and anyway it was darned foolish of you to come out all this way!” LOL. And these are people who love me and know me to be feisty and independent.
Your blog is important. It endures. As do your readers thank goodness.
Thanks, HG. You are doing a great deed by sharing this information with us, your blog audience. Sadly for your REAL LIFE audience, they will never get to see behind the curtain. Unless by some stroke of good luck and good research skills they find themselves on your blog!