Exposed Part One – 5 Tips to Expose Danger

 

Image result for picture of cracked mask

 

You never see us coming. You do not know what we are when we ensnare you. You have no idea what is actually happening when we push and pull you through the bewildering experience that is devaluation. You make no sense of what has happened when you have been discarded in the dust, hurt and dazed. When we return, riding back into your lives like the triumphant king we regard ourselves as, you still do not know us for what we are. How many times have you rued the fact that if only you had known earlier? How often have you remarked at how obvious it now seems with hindsight, when the eventual moment of revelation arrives, long-delayed and overdue as it often is. How frequently have you bemoaned to friends and family that if only you have seen the signs you might have done something to avoid what had entangled with you. Wishful thinking indeed and such thoughts go on to pollute your future engagements with those prospective intimate partners. At some future point you may eventually dip a toe in the pool of intimacy again in the hope of finding someone who is as far-removed from us as possible, but what if one of our kind comes a calling? You know you identified the tell-tale indicators with the one of our kind who ensnared you, but what is Lucifer comes in many guises? Would you have the craft and skill set to out one of our if he locked on to you? Would your empathic traits override the caution? Would the old adage of lightning never strikes twice play through your mind even though it strikes several times when it comes to our kind? At the outset of your engagement with that interesting and exciting person, there are of course the many Red Flags which exist and about which I have written in greater detail. You ought to acquaint yourself with them, since not all of our kind will always exhibit certain indicators. Neither does it do any harm to avail yourself of additional ones should you find yourself becoming the attention of the Greater of our kind, if hitherto you had been involved with a Lesser of Mid-Range. Utilise these five early door tactics to expose whether you are at risk of being ensnared.

 

  1. Create jealousy

Make reference to an actor or celebrity and comment about how he or she is talented and handsome. Consider admitting you have a crush on this person and if they walked in now you would be smitten and so forth. Observe the reaction.

A Lesser will struggle even during the seduction to contain the effect of his criticism and will lash out with a comment such as,

“Him? He is a homosexual, yes, well known in the industry, of course his fan base cannot know.”

“Him? Had a lot of work done you know.”

“Him? Really? He is nothing to look at. You’ve got off taste if you like him.”

A Mid-Range will fall silent and then move the topic on to something else. He has the situation just about under control but remains wounded, hence the withdrawal through a brief silence and then going to a different topic.

The Greater. Watch for the very brief flicker of fury in the eyes. A narrowing of the gaze or slight sneer before the control is exerted. The Greater will smile (but there will no warmth) or there will be a hollow laugh before he will say,

“Not a patch on me though eh?”

“I could have been an actor you know.”

A normal person would respond with: –

“Yes, he is a handsome chap, I agree.”

“Do you think so? I’m not so sure, but I can understand why you might say that.”

 

  1. Place Your Attention Elsewhere

Either fiddle with your ‘phone repeatedly or keep smiling at the waiter and chatting to him when he serves you. It need not be excessive as even a fairly minimum distraction in this way will irk our kind. Whatever situation you are in, find a way to put your attention on someone or something else.

The Lesser will put down the third party at the earliest opportunity by suggesting service was slow, the seats are unsatisfactory or will grab the phone from you and put it to one side. He will not be able to contain the ignition of his fury at such an early juncture.

The Mid-Range will try to compete by talking to a different waitress or by using his own ‘phone, doing his best to conceal the wound you have created by effectively ignoring him.

The Greater will start talking loudly about himself so you are forced to return attention to him. Boasts and outlandish comments will be made along with denigrating the offending person/item.

“It must be hell waiting on for a living, I am delighted I am able to have so much control over my work.”

“You know those ‘phones have been setting on fire. Yes, a manufacturing error. Clearly an inferior make. Now, take my ‘phone for instance.”

The normal person would politely ask you to stop using your ‘phone as much or would not smile pleasantly at your interaction with other people as noting it as just being friendly.

 

  1. Get the Details

We will make various boasts about what we do, who we know and what we like and the latter will be frequent as we endeavour to mirror you. In such a situation where we have ascertained what you like through our prior targeting of you, do not, as so many people do, accept it at face value as being true and accurate but instead politely press for some more details. If we explain that we engage in fencing because you do, mention some of the relevant equipment and terminology to draw us into providing more detail.

The Lesser will fudge it, lacking the preparatory depth to know anything much beyond what you like. He will backtrack saying it was some time since he had done it or such like. He will become agitated as his fury starts to ignite because your challenge, notwithstanding its politeness, will amount to a criticism.

The Mid-Range will change subject and ask you to talk more about it. Reject this and invite his comment. He will withdraw as he keeps control and moves on to a different topic or makes an excuse to go to the toilet or to point out something else happening.

The Greater will be harder to trap in this respect because he or she will have undertaken a greater depth of preparatory work and also their higher function enables them to think on their feet more readily, but a continued gentle cross-examination will expose some deficiency eventually. Once this nears the Greater will apply greater charm towards you in order to deflect you from probing too deeply. Expect a string of compliments, a flourishing gesture (“how about some champagne?”) or praising your evident knowledge of the subject before moving on to something else.

The normal will talk easily and extensively about this interest without bragging or evasiveness because it is true.

 

  1. Ask about the Ex

It may appear a little forward but this is a useful indicator to determine who you are with.

The Lesser will be unpleasant about her because the memory of this treacherous person annoys him and therefore you will be subjected to a volley of explanations about how terrible she is.

The Mid-Range will be dismissive about the request. He knows that if pressed he will not be able to help himself and pour out how horrible she has been to him, how crazy she is and how he is trying to put himself back together again after a horrendous experience. He knows enough that this is not the ideal topic of conversation at this juncture but so long as he can maintain control, he need not spill the beans. He will comment that there is not much to say and change the focus. Bring him back to the focus and observe what happens.

The Greater will be complimentary since he or she knows that to portray the ex in such a light at this early stage of the seduction is a sensible move. This will of course change in due course once there is triangulation and you are embedded, but prior to this he wants you to recognise he is a “good” person and that it didn’t work out and will provide some woolly and amorphous reason why that is. The Greater will not be able to help himself comment that she couldn’t cope with his brilliance in some way and then use it to compliment you.

“We got on but she ultimately wasn’t as clever as me, not like you, you and I are exactly on the same intellectual wavelength, it is marvellous.”

“She wasn’t a bad person but she struggled with how hard I work. I know you are not like that because I can tell you are diligent and admire hard work.”

The normal will provide a brief and honest explanation, often admitting to failings on his part as well or explaining that he and her remain on friendly terms. There will be little bitterness or rancour even if the relationship was difficult, this person will have moved on.

 

  1. Ask About Our Childhood

We often do not like to discuss it or certainly certain elements of it. Much of it will be patchy and disjointed to us. References to other family members will be limited unless pushed and they will not be spoken about in warm or fond terms

The Lesser will make sweeping comments about how it wasn’t happy but fail to provide any detail or say it was nothing special. He will not divulge any memories of it as he struggles to do so.

The Mid-Range will be dismissive and want to talk about your childhood instead. Anything he does say will be anodyne in nature as he prefers not to revisit it.

The Greater will talk about his childhood but it will all be boasts about what he achieved, how many friends he had, how good he was football, the fact he was top of the class and so forth.

The normal will recount a handful of anecdotes, speak well of his family, link the fact that his childhood means he sees a lot of his family now or if he does not, because of death or distance, the fact he misses them.

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160 thoughts on “Exposed Part One – 5 Tips to Expose Danger”

  1. Hi Poetic Me , thank you for your message to me . Well I don’t know if he considers this break up of over 3 months a silent treatment . I doubt it to be honest . But thank you for your kind words and your advise and I will think about the blocking him . Although I feel a bit stupid blocking someone that isn’t even trying to contact me and we live in the same town he could come to my house so there really is no such thing as blocking for me. As I’m always going to have reminders every where and there’s always a chance I could run into him .

    1. Hi Lisa,

      Sorry to just drop in on your conversation here….
      I just wanted to say that I am inclined to agree with PM in regards to blocking!!!

      My ex N recently moved back to where i live, and not just back here to a karge city…. but to live all of 5mins at most from me!! I have found that there is a certain level of peace that has come with blocking her on Facebook for example!! And then yes… more recently, her phone etc. If i could “block” her from my property…. i certainly would lmfao!! But yes…. just blocking her these ways has taken pressure of having to worry about her having unwanted access to my life (Facebook) and yes… dont have stress where i hear my phone ring anymore!!!

      I know you said that you feel stupid blocking someone who is not even attempting to try and contact you… but consider this…….

      Me and my 3x have been on and off for over 15 years now!!! So there have been periiods of no contact that have spanned A COUPLE OF YEARS LONG!!! But i can now look back and say that i wish i had been able to blovk her then…. and when i could, i wish i had!!! Maybe I could have saved myself about half of this amount of time!!!…. not spent so damn long feeling like a slave to her… shackles, iron collar and all…. and her feeling like its okay to go a couple of years because hey… she owned me apparently so yes, she could dismiss then reel back as she pleased!! Trust me when i say that i have NO DOUBT WHATSOEVER IN MY MIND that this is completely over at MY say so!! HA!!!! It wont be 110% over until a few years time when she decides that enough time has passed, ive “learnt my lesson” and surely must be missing her by now so she gives herself another try!!! Well she is in for the shock of a lifetime when reaises ive gone on with my life seemingly without a 2nd thought to her!!! But yes…. during now and what could possibly be 2yrs away, 5yrs?! Even 10yrs!!!…. i dont care how much time passes…. she will FOREVER remain blocked to me in ever way i possibly can!!!

      I dont know if this is of any help to you Lisa or not??! I hope it csn show at least why you should maybe think about it and why you are FAAAAAR from stupid if you do go ahead snd do it for your own peice of mind!!!!

      Cheers mate and let us know how you go!!! Best wishes!!

      – CJ

      1. Hi CJ , thank you for your advice. First of all can I ask and apologises if I have read this wrong , but have you said you have borderline personality disorder ? Not that , that is relevant to your comments to me and yes you are probably right about the blocking . However I want him to Hoover . Yes I did say that , I want the bastard to Hoover . But I feel very sure that he won’t . He has never chased me or done any of the real grand gestures that narcs seem to do to win back victims . There was never even any big golden period . Although I put up with him and kept getting back together with him , sometimes initiated by me. I never really felt that he was bothered about me even in the pretend narc way that I now understand . He could always take it or leave it. Although in another way I was the only public girlfriend that anyone was aware of in quite a few years . So he liked to parade me around . I think my purpose was purely to make him look more desirable . That sounds very arrogant I know . But I’m way out of his league and I think it was a case of he liked the idea of people knowing I was with him . But I didn’t really hold any interest for him . I also didn’t really react too much to him . He knows he hurt me he knows he messed me around and he knows I stuck around like an idiot on and off for way too long . But I didn’t ever really get overly emotional around him . When he would try to start arguements I would not get into them with him . Because then you start to look like the psycho girlfriend . I knew there was something wrong with him I just didn’t know what . The other factor is one year before meeting me he went on holiday to a particular country and is now addicted to this fuel . All he really cares about is going there and thinks he’s going to move there permanently which he won’t , but in his head he thinks he’s found the answer to all his problems . But he will take his illness with him and a holiday is not real life . Nothing can be sustained with this illness NOTHING. They can not sustain their highs . So I am a mere boring normal person that wants a normal relationship . The only thing he might do is when he returns from his next delightful sordid disgusting holiday is have the nerve to try to Hoover me. As he will crash from the high when he comes home . This happened last year when I took him back . He will be searching for everything and anything when he comes back to get and replace the fuel . He’s 49 and a lost cause . It’s such a shame we could have had such a lovely life . But he doesn’t want normal. I was very sentimental about him as we were first boyfriend and girlfriend at school and then met up again after all these years of not seeing each other since school as I moved away . I really thought it was meant to be and I guess he played along . Pretending to want what I wanted but really just using me and lying and cheating I guess . I’m still sentimental about him , that little boy at school that had those problems . I never knew anything about . A deaf dumb and blind person could see that him and I should have worked but ….. It cannot be . I’ve often thought he may be a borderline , but they are co morbid narcs ? I really just wish he didn’t have this even if him and I were never together . I look at him and his life and think about it all and how he is and just feel very sad . He lives in a weird dark world of OCD and God knows what else that I don’t know about . I always feel that he never went too far with me and he never did a nasty discard and he always blamed himself . All gaslighting of course but I always just left , I guess if I hadn’t , he would have got nastier and worse to make me go . If you are BPD ? Can I ask you about that ? He also claimed by the way he had a relationship with a narc woman . I didn’t even question it much at the time . I just thought it was just another ex psycho story . But maybe he did . I would question him a lot about his behaviour as well but I never knew what it was I just kept questioning him so I don’t think being with me was the kind of fuel he likes apart from appearances to others . He told me he never had that high feeling with me . And of course he’s still looking for the one !!! As I was the first girlfriend from school that he liked and never really forgot . It must have been a blow for him to not be able to sustain anything for me. Now he tells himself , Oh the one is in another country and so it goes on until he drinks himself to death always seeking outwardly trying to fix what can only be fixed from the inside . I don’t know if I will ever be able to talk to him about any of this . He does love talking about himself and loves being a victim so it might appeal to him as long as it’s constantly said that nothing is his fault 🙄🙄🙄

        1. Hi Lisa…. interesting situation you have there and more than hapoy to lend advice. I am just glad to hear i didnt step on any toes butting in there lol!!!

          Yes, I am Borderline Personality Disorder and yes Lisa…. please do ask away (so long as HG does not mind…. he hasnt minded before when ppl have questions for me…. i think i may be making myself a name however…. perhaps “HG’s resident Borderline – And Aussie Champ!!!” Hows that HG???!! Hahaha).

          But yes, your more than welcome to ask anything Lisa. Ive been very open when it comes to talking about being Borderline. 😉

          1. Hi Cj, I’m trying to understand the basic difference between BPD and NPD. Sorry if my questions are offensive in anyway , but borderlines are narcissists aren’t they ? But then you have had relationships with N’s and are having problems with getting them out of your life , as you say regarding them coming back or the blocking ? Would it be possible for someone to be BPD and due to them having many chaotic relationships including possible one with an N that their Narcisism becomes more prominent and stronger ? To the point that they would then feel they are better off not having relationships at all. He fits a male borderline but there’s a lot of N there but I’m just not sure . It’s hard to know whether his stories are describing a borderline or he’s a narc gaslighting . But he claims to have had a relationship with a N and apparently she controlled him. I didn’t know what one was at the time and he told me this just before we broke up .

          2. Hi Lisa!!

            Im really sorry i have not gotten to reply to you sooner!! It was my intent to contact you straight away but got distracted etc… either way…. appoliogies!!!

            I did write quite and extensive reply to you…. however it sort of got big enough that i ended up posting it as a blog post on my new blog my Drs asked i try and see how i go given my enjoyment of writting.

            You can find it here: https://borderlineworldblog.wordpress.com/2016/08/20/was-recently-asked-on-another-blog-how-borderlines-are-different-from-narcissists/

            (Not sure if your okay with me sharing this here HG??! I also wanted to of course share it with you too and any one else who may be interested!! I do hope your interested and take a look…. and of course…. feel free to leave comment 😉 hahaha!! Id love to hear your thoughts actually so yea… if interested at all… please go check it out!!!).

  2. I have another test for a narc. What do u think? Both (somatic, I think) narcs I’ve interacted with got very angry when I wouldn’t have sex on the third date. One called me immature and yelled at me (I kicked him out) and the other stopped kissing me and sat far away and ignored me (I got up and left). In fact, Ive never experienced a golden period longer than a couple of dates bc the mask slips so soon from me wanting to take things slow. I was told by both, after they relentlessly pursued, that I’m too difficult. One of them (after the yelling incident) I eventually dated casually, knowing he was a narc (lesser) and had lots of fun (hey, he was hot and good in the sack). It was quite easy to manipulate him. I’d call him up asking for advice to feed his ego and put him on mute while he talked and I’d watch tv. I’d get him to do things by saying that I didn’t think he could do it. If he tried to give me the silent treatment he would never get texts from me asking where he was and I’d ignore his texts when he finally caved. I acted like I was oblivious to the whole thing. He was a photographer so I would dangle the possibility of a prestigious industry connection I had to keep him in line and nice to me. But I will admit, after a while it was exhausting trying to keep him in line and I still would get hurt from the emptiness of our relationship and the knowledge I meant nothing. I always knew he wasn’t ralationship material but to me he was still a human being and so I was never cruel.

    1. Hello Ashley, that is indeed an indicator and as you point out, it would be a lesser somatic who would be unveiled in this manner. The somatic naturally places considerable stock in sex and being a lesser would not be able to keep the criticism of a knock back under control. Your manipulation of him also reinforces his lesser status and also that you are a rascal for treating him in this way. We shall be discussing your terrible behaviour at Narc Club and you can expect a visit from us soon to “correct” you.

  3. I too have recently subscribed as well and have purchased and read several of your books. So disturbing as you already know but so very spot on. I have been divorced from Lucipher for 18 years but realize that he is actually one of you. I knew he was a bad seed. After 13 years of hell, I literally got a peek at his evil beast and finally left for good. I always just thought he was a giant evil asshole. Called him a sociopath on occasion but I did not understand the deeper disturbing mechanics of the disorder – namely that it extended to my boys. He always “appeared” to have a “favorite” in the oldest, but I had no idea what he was actually doing to them. Not physical – but mentally and emotionally. Telling the oldest lies about me and his brother (aka Smear Campaign as I now know it to be), unloading horrible, ruthless verbal assaults on my youngest, always pitting the oldest against me and the youngest. I can look back and so much makes sense now that I have been “enlightened” by your works. It repulses me to give you any fuel (no matter how low the quality) – but thank you HG. I view the tactics used on the GC to be every bit as damaging to him as the verbal assaults and discarding of the non-GC were on him. (I abhor the word scapegoat). I have not seen anything in your works that speaks in detail to the deliberate separation of siblings by you and your kind unless I just haven’t come across it yet..I get that it falls under the category of triangulation but I am really looking for some direction on how to educate them properly and gently, without further damaging their psyche when they realize what has been done to them by their own Dad. Two boys – they have love for each other but then have explosive confrontations followed by estrangement. I know the evil jackass is behind it but I don’t know if the GC has figured out what his Dad is. I have had some conversations with the non-GC and while he is receptive at times, he doesn’t want to talk about it at other times. I am fairly certain he is researching on his own now that we have spoken of it. I must be careful to not cause further damage but he needs to know he isn’t nor was he ever the problem. He is currently 2 months no contact (his choice) and certainly feels better about himself. I know how fresh the air is when you get away. They are 30 and 28. I hope it’s not too late for them to repair their brotherly relationship. Are you works strictly about the Elite and their prey?…I don’t know if you have children or not but would be curious on your honest thoughts about this topic or appreciative for any direction.

    1. Hello CGJ thank you for your post and for reading my books, it is appreciated. Yes it is evident from what you have written that you have grasped what is going on within the family dynamic, but you now know. It is indeed a form of triangulation when our kind pits the Golden Child against the Scapegoat. I am working on publications which deal with this behaviour. I have seen and experienced it first hand and continue to see it played out. My works are from my perspective as a Greater Elite but I also (through experience and observation) comment on the perspectives of the other kinds of narcissists too.
      Presumably their father is continuing with this triangulation even though they are now adults? My forthcoming book Little Acons will be of interest to you, but since your sons are adults you would be able to point them in the direction of any of my work and allow them to read it and make up their own minds. Do not suggest to them what you know to be the case as this will make them defensive, but instead allow them to reach their own conclusion. The Non- Golden Child will probably be easier to deal with in terms of him gaining his understanding and awareness. The Golden Child will be part of the façade. In effect, you are dealing with (as you pointed out) a smear campaign against you and your younger son, with the elder son begin part of the façade. Read Smeared if you have not already done so as this will provide you with options in terms of dealing with what has happened so far. This will equip you to approach educating your younger son (which will be easier) and also how to deal with your elder son. Allow them to see what it is for themselves with direction towards the relevant material for them to read. Do you consider either of your sons to behave in a narcissistic manner or do you purely consider that they remain in the grip of their father and therefore it is educating them about what he is and what he does in terms of affecting the sibling relationship?

      1. Thank you very much for your response HG. Your knowledge is truly appreciated and duly noted. I will be looking out for that publication and will continue on with your other writings that are available. Those I have read have provided insight and answers that were surely needed and most welcome.
        Yes, their father continues the triangulation of them as adults. It seems to me it is getting worse as he/they age. As far as their behaviors, I do not believe either of them to be narcissistic like their Dad – but I will definitely be paying close attention to details from here on out to attempt to prevent them heading down that path – if at all possible. I was no doormat/enabler – when it comes to my boys I will claw eyes first and ask questions later. I paid some heavy dues personally for my “combativeness” for sure and was subjected to pretty much everything in the Tool Kit, but during that marriage and to this day, both my boys did and continue to know unconditional love and support from me. Always have. They both have healthy relationships with me and others (friends, companions, acquaintances, etc), and both are truly caring and compassionate people and have no problem from what I can see expressing true/genuine emotion – except with one another the emotion that prevails is anger. Makes me sad. GC has actually acknowledged he now knows the things he was told about me during his teen years were not true. (I now understand many of the conversations/questions he posed to me in past conversations- apparently gave him clarification he needed.) I really think he knows something is wrong with his Dad but he is compliant to keep the peace for himself. I worry if that is dangerous for him or the best approach for him.??
        Anyway, thank you again for your time and input. You have clearly opened a door that many people needed opened, including yourself it appears.

        1. Hello CGJ you are most welcome and thank you for continuing to read and yes, look out for those additional works which prove of assistance to you.

  4. Hi Miss_Stress thanking for taking the time to write to me . Yes I have spent the last 3 months since the break up researching all of this narcissist behaviour . HG has become like my fuel line . I feel like I’m turning into a narc myself although I know that’s not possible. I’ve read so much including Sam Vaknin which is horrendous to read . By the way HG what are your thoughts on Vaknins blog do you agree with it all. I don’t know if I’m making myself worse by reading all this stuff . As you say Miss_Stress all these words of it was all a lie they feel nothing it’s like a dagger in the heart time and time again . I was involved with another one just before this one but it was a work colleague so very different . But I was clueless . That post may appear at some point . If a Hoover comes I will be very greatful, but have not quite decided what I will do with it . Part of me knows the best thing to do is ignore , that will bother him but it will only be a benign one so he may not be too bothered and part of me wants to tell him I know all of this stuff . Just for my own sake really . But I don’t want to contact him first , I want him to do it . Yes I probably won’t get the answers I want . Miss_Stress can you tell me what you did or said that caused injury to him in the end that gave you your closure or at least the best you could get from it ?

    1. I haven’t read his blog. I have listened to some of his YouTube videos. He knows what he is talking about but he approaches it in a more scientific method. I think that is less accessible. My voice is also far superior ro his.
      You are currently being swamped in the emotional sea. Lisa. I would not advocate entertaining a hoover yet. Build that logic boat. You need to focus on your own defences, not on attacking him. You may be able to achieve revenge later, but you are not equipped to do so at present.

      1. Sam Vaknin bored me to death , too sterile & scripted .

        Looking at your blog stats this morning HG you’re not far from your first Million hits !! Looks like your going to give him a run for his money .

        Lisa Hi ,

        I’m 18 months free & no Hoover either, & yes I felt like you do right now at the time , but I only now realise that I wasn’t emotionally equipped .

        Keep reading & asking the questions . Post about your feelings we all understand .. Part of my healing if you like was finding this blog & being able to ask questions .

        If he ever does decide to try & hoover me he won’t get a single response back .. Like you I don’t feel as though I’ll ever get ” closure ” but protecting myself emotionally from him now I’ve escaped physical harm means so much more . xx

    2. Lisa. I don’t mind giving input, our situations sound similar. CN, was not malignant, nor was he physically aggressive. He was very verbally aggression when he was caught in a lie or felt he was criticised. He would shout horrible things at me to attack my self esteem, I built a barrier to them and chose to let him purge his negative feelings, while saying nothing to him, other then I hear you, I love you, say what you need to, I am here. After this rage, he would retreat, give me silent treatment. In the beginning it was on my days, then Weeks. Then In the last year, he gave me a three month and a two and half month silent treatment. Always returning, happy I was waiting and still loved him, apologetic, using the same lies to condone his disappearance, the last time, though when he returned I knew he was Narcissist. So, I discussed it with him, he seemed receptive, claiming to research it. That he had some. Tendencies, but was not one. I knew the relationship was over, that I a faithful and he by nature cannot be, all I wanted was the truth and we could remain friends and I would still love and support him. But, if fuel was his only goal, well he can get that anywhere from those who do not know what he is and Neil e all his deceptions.

      What did I do, I argued at him. I returned the behaviour he so often gave to me In four years that I lost count. I never showed him any anger, only supportive loving words. Mind you I questioned him on his deceptions, I don’t withhold what I think. But, he always returned stating I was never the reason he left.
      I found out about someone he was cheating with, she was bragging on social media about him, he lied to me. I had previously presented to him N the past this scenario. If I ever get angry at you then there will be an issue between us that cannot be resolved and you will now my love has Diminished for you. That wasn’t true btw Lisa, I have a right to get upset and express my emotions. Being angry ag him, would nevr mean I didn’t love him. But, he couldn’t handle such, so I simply chose to suppress my negative emotions for his sake of coping. The same way I chose to accept his outburst so he could release. He told me once I had no rights in the relationship when he raged. Well. Thusly I knew me getting angry and calling him out, would not be tolerated by him. So, he In return verbally raged at me, calling every could name In the book, still denying everything. Then I found about two other appliances, ones he had lied about the past when I asked about them. He set them up the next day to replace me and repair the wound I created, in his mind. I blocked him in social media. I knew I did the right thing for myeslf and my self esteem and respect.

      My advice Lisa, is not to seek revenge, it isn’t worth it. Especially if there is any way you can be harmed, by a smear campaign or if he was every physically aggressive to you In The past.
      Do not initiate contact and wait..I would base it on your last Interaction with him before the silent treatment … to determine if he will Hoover, Hg thinks he will. So do I. I know the waiting to get answers is emotionally torturing. So keep reading and Learning before that Hoover, if and when it comes. If you reply to it…know why you will before it arrives…Closure, answers, to harm him or to get the relationship back?
      HG says many will not know or admit they are Narcissists when confronted, they will deny, deflect or accuse us , instead. If telling him what you know of him, helps you then tell him. It might be what you need to get your closure. Even if he leaves for good at such a criticism.
      I know I received no answers to the questions I so desperately wanted answered by him. I would be a hypocrite to say don’t reply to Hoover, seeing I did to get closure. I will say understand why and what you want from him and the Hoover and closure. Then do what it is needed to achieve it for yourself. Do not Think about what he needs. Think only now of yours. Believe me, he is not thinking of you, other then if he can reap more fuel from you by lying, causing upon to worry, obsess, get angry and feel sad. If they return, they use our love and forgiving nature for them against us. The curse of our warm loving heart and the cold hearted snake we love(d).

      1. Hi Miss_Stress , I think some just never come back. Over the 2 years it’s been so off and on and usually me iniating the break up . But there’s always been some dumb reason to get back in touch . Usually one of us has left some belongings at each other’s house or something like that. We have gone 3 months with no contact before but that was because I ended it due to a holiday that he booked that was a holiday only suitable for a single man. I broke up with him 10 weeks before the holiday . No doubt that was San inconvenience to him for at least 10 minutes . He would have rather I’d carried on no doubt right up until his flight date and possibly driven him to the airport . When I broke up with him , I just said lets see how we feel when you get back. Thinking in 3 months I would get over him. But he took that has a definite that we would get back together. When he came back from his holiday I took him back . Unbelievable !!! He came crawling back full of excuses and how sorry he was bla bla. He started all his crap again about 2 months later . When I asked him why he bothered to even try to get me back after a 3 month break up he said Because he knew he could. That says it all I suppose but it’s because I had said about we will see when you come back. This time nothing like that has been said . And my belongings from his house were collected from his sister , so none of the usual excuses. It’s just about one week past the 3 month mark now, I read somewhere they extend the silent treatment longer each time is that true HG ? Although this is a break up not a silent treatment . I did block him but have now unblocked everything . No doubt that was probably another mistake . But I am actually getting on with my life I go out a lot and I do have a lot of friends and I’m busy with things , it doesn’t stop the internal sadness though. But I thought well if he does ever decide to look on my social media then let him see that I’m going out and busy and enjoying myself . It’s better than him thinking I’m at home slitting my wrists, even if he doesn’t care either way. HG is it better that they can’t see what’s going on with exes or is it better your out enjoying yourself having fun without ex narc ? I’m undecided what I would do with a Hoover . If I ever get one . But he has none of his usual excuses to do so.

        1. Yes we will extend the silent treatment in order to keep you doubting. Thus if we notice that you are less frantic when we start a silent treatment because you are getting used to them, if we did one for a week, then we will make it 10 days. You will be thinking “well he will be back in touch in a week so I will just get on with my life” and therefore you may not react and give us fuel. This may cause a shift to a different form of manipulation (dependent on fuel levels) or we will decide to make it ten days, so by day 8 you start to think “it is longer than a week, maybe this time he meant it when he said it is over, or maybe he is not coming back” and thus the anguish and the concern begins, which creates fuel either as Thought Fuel or you start trying to contact us, sending begging messages etc so it is Proximate Fuel.

          Letting them know what you are doing is something of a mixed bag. On one level you are entering the sphere of influence by doing this which may prompt a hoover, but if you are able to portray that you are getting on with your life and appear content it will wound us. That wound will ignite the fury and this may result in a hoover happening or we leave you alone and seek fuel from elsewhere to deal with the wound because hovering you may be regarded as too difficult.

        2. Hi Lisa
          You broke up. But he is still doing a silent treatment on you. So, in that he will Hoover. Mine extended his as well, from days…to week, almost ritualistic in timing. The longest came last summer, the same time Hg started this blog, after a court date for what he claimed was another driving offence. Also after, I question him regarding sociopathic narcissism. Which he feigned cluelessness on. He returned per usual as if nothing happened, like he was never gone. All was well again, untill he went silent after Dec 31 2015 . It was after that silent treatment. I sought answers. I wish why I found this blog and pretty much begged for my questions to be answered regarding silent treatments. HG told me at the time CN never loved me, I was worthless and go no contact, so when he hoovered, there was no advisement regarding how I was feeling during silent fragment leading up to the Hoover, how to resist the Hoover, what he hoped to achieve during the Hoover, et cetera. I was an emotional mess, with no advisement and my need to seek answers and closure from him. I accepted his hover, to get those answers from the source then….Him. The Hoover was only beneficial to him, not me.

          It is good that HG is helping others In the same situation, now with giving answers to desperately needed questions. I still loved him. There is a question to ask yourself. Do you still love your ex? It is a huge determiner on how you will respond to Hoover. I wish you well, Lisa. That you receive all the answers you need, to continue reading here, and elsewhere and to keep asking questions…to help you navigate the best way for yourself in these matters. I found it very difficult facing that post silent treatment Hoover after knowing what he was….i had immense guilt. I loved him and wanted to forgive him. Which is why I gave a chance for months to open up to me and feel my acceptance, and as HG told me over and over again, here, I am worthless….it sunk in, self esteem wise. Which is why I had to leave him. Lisa, I would reblock him on all social media, because if he so chooses he can see everything from a mutual friends account, etc, he will find a way….you deserve to have a happy life, he doesn’t deserve to be witness to it. Let him wonder, so if he is unblocked now and sees You getting on with life without him. Reblock him and have him seething over what is happening in his absence. He will create an excuse to Hoover..ie I was concerned about you. I missed you, I wanted to make sure you were happy, the possibilities of falseness are endless. He doesn’t need one of his excuses, he can fabricate any excuse at whim.
          Just be yourself, live your life and be happy. If and when he hoovers, know what you will do In advance. HG is providing that Information readily here now, take advantage of it for your own situation. It will spare you the heartache I endured months ago. Believe me.

  5. Knowing what to say to make the blood run hot, to conjure up the images that will drive a person mad with lust and desire…..absolutely thrilling. There’s nothing like it, in fact.

    When you can make people feel things they’ve never felt before with just a word or a whisper. No touching or caressing or licking…..just words that stimulate the brain and penetrate every orifice of the soul to in turn stimulate the body.

    Now combine the words with the physicality and what you have is an atom bomb of lust just waiting to be detonated.

    1. Ahhhh B&T…… if ever there were a woman unto my own heart…….. hahaha!!!

      I fear you may perhaps have the most lethal combination of all……. both, the lethal beauty that could ignite ones inner flames!!!… the epitome of flawless physicality!! Lol!! But, also the ability to drive a person to brink of insanity with words alone……

      YES….. WELL …… I think perhaps I just might fear you a wee tiny bit, B&T!!! Hahahaha 😉

      I thoroughly enjoy when you have some input to add B&T…. you articulate yourself in the most delightful manner!!! LMFAO!!

      I am very glad you decided to drop into our conversation….. i dont doubt this may just be a subject to which you could add some highly valuable insight!!! Hahahaha 😉

      Ahh….. always a pleasure having a banter with you….. as much of a pleasure as it is getting quite suggestive with you also………

      Hrmmm….. hahahaha!!! Lmfao 😆

  6. No comment on sizes of penis or vaginas…. this is not relevant to if a person becomes or not a narcissist. And anyway I agree with HG first the mind and the rest will follow .. and it can be very good

  7. I cannot help but to chime in for penis tawlk.
    Maybe I should do a blog about that…anyways, my ex narc is a Narc because of his size. He is literally 7.25 inches in girth and 8.75 inches long. Yes, freakishly big. I can picture him now walking into a bar somewhere swinging that thing around like a lasso sayin, hello ladies. Lol. So maybe Yo you are onto something. Does penis size make a Narc or is it environmental? HG any thoughts?

          1. Oh HG I find your confidence and your wit just utterly entertaining!!! This is fast becoming one of my favourite sources of entertainment you know?!!!!

          2. Ahhh…. Fair point HG…. what sort of groupie would I be after all if this was not my Number 1 source of all this entertaining and informative!!! I think i might need to find my dictionary and recheck the definition of groupie??!!! Hahahaha

      1. I think his size inflated his ego so much that it was a contributing factor. Yo mentioned size. Does that make a Narc more Narcish? Or push them toward it because I’m the biggest? Look at how many want me because of this….etc. do u think size matters in formation of narc?

        1. Indeed the size, real or imagined, will be factor but of course is mainly a concern for the somatic and the elite. I do not think the size of the penis has anything to do with the formation or a narcissist, but instead, when suitable endowed it becomes a tool for the narcissism to manifest. See what I did there?

          1. Hahahaha…. your response her certainly gave me a laugh HG….. VERY well death with!!! Hahaha

            Doesn’t it ultimately come down to how good one is at using it, rather than the size per se???! Men on the smaller size will tend to try to be a more enthusiastic lover…. trying harder to please to compensate for his lack of…… manhood!! Lmfao. Where as, are well endowed men not more inclined to think the are God’s gift to women simply because they have a 3rd stump???!! What do is his 3rd stump if he can’t stump you damn well with it??!!!

            Just my very random input there……. lmfao 😉

          2. The cock is not the weapon.

            The words are. The mind is the ultimate target for seduction, then the body will follow.

          3. Ahh touchè HG!!! You are most certainly correct here!!! I dont doubt this at all!!!

            I just felt like dropping my 2 cents in when it came to the clocks size subject… thats all!!!

            The same certainly goes for women too…. I believe whole heartedly in the Power of the Pus*y!!!! Yes sir I do!!!! Hahaha!!! BUT!…. its going to always be her mind ultimately that is the greatest weapon of all!! I mean…. there is only so much “talking” that the Pus*y can do after all!!!… she aint going to keep me very stimulated AT ALL if she is not brilliant also!!!

            Example of this fact….. i actually seem to have lately piqued the interest of quite the genius of minds in the embodiment of a perfect specimen of the female species!!! While yes…. she most certainly could deploy the Power of the Pus*y on me and id fall at her feet in worship hahahaha….. (i mean cummon… i am but only a red hot blooded lesbian after all hahaha!!!), she would definately be struggling though, to maintain my attention and dedication to her if she was not also…. and more importantly!!!…. able to deploy her brilliant mind to tango with me!!! Her intellect just adds tenfold to allure and charm!!! The intellect above all is what ensures that she cam ensnare me completely should she wish too!!!… once ensnared… there is no chance of me looking absolutely ANYWHERE other than at her and here devine beauty!!! But…. its STILL The greatness of her mind would ensnare me and take complete ownership of me inevitably be my demise….. not her Pus*y….. regardless of how fantastic said Pus*y was!!!!!

            BTW HG…. I recieved my first hardcopy book of yours yesterday in the mail!!! I was stoked when I opened it!!! I was wondering however, if you could perhaps email me the link to where I can purchase the following: “Sex and the Narcissist”, “Sitting Target……”, “Revenge…..”, and If there are any other hard copies available other than Escape And NO Contact… i found and bought those 2!! The rest however, I have searched both Amazon US and Amazon UK for the hard copies and I just cannot find them!!! So yes… if you wouldn’t mind ever do much… i would be eternally grateful if you could please just swing me a quick email with hme direct links to purchase pages???

            So yes… i MOST DEFINATELY agree with your statement that genitals… irrespective of being a sausage or a box, are FAR from being the most dangerous weapon that you have in your mammoth toolbox!!!

          4. The Box and Sausage. Sounds like one of those dreadful chain pubs. Thanks for your post, I am delighted you were “stoked” with the arrival of the book. I will e-mail the links as you requested. The easiest way to locate them is to change the filter to “books” in your search bar and then just add h g escape and it will appear there, adjust as per relevant title. I will still send the links though.

          5. Ahhh thank you very Much HG!!! I am truly appreciative!! I cant wait to own my own collection of hard copy HG Tudor titles…. I fear people might start to think I’m becoming a we bit of a groupie to you HG!!!!

            And that made me nearly fall over laughing…. your “The box and the Sausage” comment!!!…. it is certainly not somewhere that I will adding to any “Must Dine Hete” lists of mine!!!! Hahahaha

    1. Anna , that made me laugh! 🙂

      Ex Narcs ” Idea” of foreplay was opening his dressing gown , flapping it from side to side a few times & shouting ” come on then ” .. CLASS lol

    1. Omg, Twinkletoes. You made me laugh. His was huge but a quick finish. He would brag about his size. I never let him in so to speak bc I smelled entrapment pregancy. NFW. Red Flag avoided. So many other ways to have fun…but you made me laugh.

  8. no he’d never do that…he used to accuse me of stealing his food…

    Why do I want closure from this? I should be glad he’s gone. I think when I re enter his spheres of influence he is only reminded how much he hates me . Have you seen cases where someone is split black forever? How would I know and more importantly how do I accept not ever receiving justice or resolution?

    1. Another territorial element of our behaviour. I daresay Food, Glorious Food resonated with you considerably when I wrote that.

      Yes TT, it is entirely accurate that you can re-enter our spheres and the response will only be malice. I have that situation with that harpy Andrea. All I do is apply malign hoovers against her.

      How would you know that he is split black forever? Through the nature of the hoovers. If each one is malign, there is the indicator.

      How do you accept not receiving justice or resolution? This will require an adjustment in your thinking. What, at present, does justice and resolution look like to you?

      1. Do you think these are even hoovers, HG? Are they malign? Maybe it really is psycho and he forgot about me? The rest of the blanks been filled in by my wishful thinking? Whats your take on this?

        1. It may well be psycho who is after you, but your N will hoover at some point, it depends on when you enter the spheres of influence, his desire for hoover fuel and the position with other fuel sources that will determine it.

  9. A strange thing i observe: guys who wanna marry and have family, kids… and they declare it actually from the very 1st dates…
    Usually have 1) either small pene 2) or they finish quickly or 3) both

    What is it? Where r normal guys who r hoid in sex + want to have serious relationship?..
    (When i say normal i dont refer to narcs hehhe)

  10. Time flies… it s already 7 months i left my ex narc.
    And i was with him also 7 months.

    =》 i “grew” after him.
    Now i met him for a single evening and he sang the same songs…
    How is possible i loved such a miserable creature?…
    Not mature, not deep person.
    How is possible i let him do all the things he did..

    I met him being 33. I was quite ok on the market. My biological clock was ok, still time to find a man and have a family.

    Now i am recovered, i am stronger, but almost 35..
    And single.

  11. So he kept me around all those years because….I made him feel better about himself? And still do, apparently. He has started to appear in profile pics of friends of his (but not mine) i’ve visited (but his remains on lockdown/blocked). I think he knows I looked. Well I sent him a request using the same fake name/profile information he used to bother me on fb. He actually doesn’t think I know. Needless to say I don’t think he’ll be doing that again lol. I only wish I was close enough to throw his big mac on the floor. That happened once and he screamed, ate it off the floor and ordered 2 more fresh ones for good measure. He ate one there and, pouting, rode home with other one stored deep down in his underwear.

    1. He kept you around for fuel TT. What I need to know is that if he had asked you to carry his Big Mac in your underwear, would you have consented?

  12. How do guys accept you meant nothing (and are nothing) to this person? How do you forgive someone who will never directly hoover (which, after reading here I realize is the closest to validation/closure i’ll ever get) from who someone who sees you as less than human? Like many of you, this has affected my ability to socialize with other people. I’m stuck guys.

    1. How has it affected your ability to socialise TT? Do you decide you just do not want to? Do you do it less, do you avoid certain places? Do you remain guarded when in a social setting? Tell me how it manifests please.

  13. About jealosy: dear defective person, i guess this test will not work for all nationalities.
    I noticed the same pattern in all arabs: they just need to diminish any competitor.

  14. The guy i like now still sees his ex from time to time (it s alreafy 7 months as they broke up)

    1) is it normal?
    2) he says they broke up coz although they “matched” and lived together for almist 2 years, but the girl all the time invented something e.g. “they are not truly soulmates” and went crazy about such topics. Once they solved one topic, another one appeared.

    I am thinking: WHAT should be in the relationship to the purpose the girl rise these topics “we r not real soulmates”

    Still up to now they go crazy about each other (seems so as they still see each other)

  15. Haha it was soo funny when i invited my ex narc for sex (after 7 months of no contact) and he started telling his bullshit ” i missed you bla bla” to everything he was telling i asked details, e.g.
    – NARC: “i missed you”
    – ME: ” what exactly u missed about me”
    – NARC simply changed the topic

    And like this all the time. I literraly think he didnt remember what is possible to miss about me.

    But he remembered too well how to give me pleasure in sex. That s true hehhe

  16. Hi HG, this list is handy and I can see that my N did quite a lot of this stuff. When first dating , while watching TV I casually mentioned that a certain football manager was really good looking but was starting to look a bit older . My N’s reaction was unbelievable he actually went into a temper about it , going on and on about how I should not have said that and how would I like it if he mentioned good looking women on TV , it was ridiculous. The red flags when I look back weren’t just there I was being hit over the head with them continuously . Couple of questions for you HG, first how do you understand the inner thoughts of lessers and mids as you are not one ? Secondly if my N had no feelings for me or attachment and really did not care about me at all, do they get why ? And do they ? Get jealous of other men ? Mine never showed any interest in what I was doing when I was not with him , he couldn’t care less .

    1. I have regular interaction with lesser and mid-rangers, there are at least three in my family. I also understand based on my own knowledge of what I am and apply this to what I have observed, along with points which have arisen from my discussions with the good doctors.
      Does he understand why he has no feelings for you? Depends on the type of narcissist.
      Yes jealousy is one of our prime emotions.
      How do you know he didn’t care less or perhaps that was the impression he wanted to create in order to draw a reaction from you.

      1. HG yes he would have pretended to not care to get a reaction and yes it worked . But being a narc he really did not care anyway so he didn’t have to pretend ? I’m confused ? He’s a lesser to mid , he would say he’s emotionless and doesn’t feel close to anyone not even his family . Does he know he’s a narc and why etc , I don’t know, but he knows there’s something wrong with him and would put all of this down to all the women he’s had relationships with they are responsible for all of this . Because of what they’ve put him through . He’s a VICTIM.
        HG this isn’t curable is it ? They never change or want to change ? Even if they really grasp it like you and see it all, they don’t ever want to change do they ? Just like you don’t want to nor will you ?

        1. He sounds like he is indeed a lesser to mid, he does not know what he is nor will he ever be convinced of that fact.He will not grasp it because of the way he has been conditioned and the level of his cognitive function.
          Do I want to change? I don’t see why I need to for reasons that I have already articulated but I am continuing with me engagement with the good doctors because I have been made aware of certain things and I will continue to embrace that. Who knows where it will lead.

    2. Lisa…..I tried it out in my friend from Uk…he isn’t a narcisisist. I said oh my goodness, Jürgen Klopp, is the most interesting and attractive football manager. My male friend agreed and told me reason why he thought he was so great, even though he is not a fan of Liverpool.
      When I did the same with an ex CN, he would say things like… then why are you with me, if I am so below your standards or you are out of my league when you can get men like that, why do you have to make me feel so unattractive. My response was, D, I just said I really like the way he writes lyrics, he infuses so much emotion into his songs…..or when he asked me if I think so and so is attractive, then claimed I have a type. Which had to be opposite to how he is…also not true. I do not have a type at all. After a time, I said. When he baited me, I don’t know, I never thought about it. Finito!!!

      1. Now Miss S, you will like this. I attended a football match where Klopp was about two metres away from me. He was wearing a tracksuit and trainers, white trainers. I returned my attention to the match and then during a lull in play, looked at the bench again and this time Klopp was wearing shorts and football boots. I thought to myself that that was a quick change, when did that happen? Suddenly Klopp appeared next to himself with the tracksuit and white trainers. He has a member of his backroom staff who is his doppleganger. I don’t know if he is related to Jurgen but he looks so much like him. I was rather taken aback and then perturbed.

        1. That is odd, thank you for sharing that story Hg, I appreciate it. Supposedly we all have doppelgängers. I have an identical twin sister. But, once I saw a girl that looked exactly like me walking towards me. It was a bit frightful.
          For Klopp, double my pleasure then.

      2. Hi Miss_Stress, I’m finding it really hard to come to terms with the fact that I have never been around my N or spoke to him since I now know all of this stuff . I know he’s a lesser to mid but don’t still really understand if he’s a CN or MN I don’t know how to work that out ? But I don’t think he knows what he is and certainly would never link it to his childhood or his monster father. I’m also very upset that I have not been hoovered since the 3 month break up. I am just struggling to come to terms with all of this . Also HG confuses me sometimes by saying things like , How do I know he never cared for me he may have just wanted me to think that ? Which yes I agree, but since finding out he’s a narc he couldn’t have cared anyway ? It’s just all so confusing

        1. Your upset at not being hovered is understandable but you ought to be thankful it has not happened. Three months is not long by the way, there is plenty of time yet Lisa.
          He didn’t care for you. He made you think that he cared for you (that is the seduction) but he did not. What is confusing about that?

          1. HG the reason it’s confusing is because you said in another answer when I said he never cared about me , you said How do you know he never cared about you, maybe that’s what he wanted you to think to get a reaction

          2. Understood, thanks for the context Lisa. When I wrote that I meant, “how did you know he did not care about you – as in what was it that he said or did to cause you to think that, how did it manifest itself so you could reach that conclusion”?

          3. HG him not caring manifests because narcs can’t care they just don’t so that’s why. I think this is about my 5th message to you today . I think I need you to just come and live in my house for a while to do personal narc coaching for a couple of months ha ha

        2. HI Lisa
          I fully understand, as I went through it with CN. His last silent treatment in January, last 2.5 months, during which time I found Hg blog and books and informed myself on what he is. He hoovered me mid March. After finding the blog, I sought to understand CN and find closure from him, even admittance fo what he was. Other readers on the blog at the time for helpful to me as they went thighs similar things. HG only ever told me loud and clear CN nevr loved me, he only loved my fuel. That I meant nothing to him,e very thing he did and said to me was an illusion, a lie to get that fuel. He stayed with me only for my fuel. It was harsh to hear, when Hg told me he saw me as worthless. I couldn’t believe after four years and the entire, time except when he felt criticised and would rage verbally. That this man, did not love me as a I loved him. So when he hoovered me, I jumped at chance for my closure, the answers I needed. He denied everything. Make me seem paranoid. While still professing his love for me, lying about why he ignored me months again. I thought if he understood I loved him( fuel) and would accept him as he is, all would be okay. But, it cannot happen. Because we know, as HG informed me, our fuel is now tainted and less potent to them. So, they retreat and attach fuel,lines or other appliances they had as secondary or supplementary lines, the ones they fed off while silencing us.
          I the end Lisa, I created a situation to facilitate my own discard, a massive criticism to him, to anyone else it would have been nothing, but not to who he is. To be clear I loved this man, I didn’t do it because I don’t love him. I did. Because he had diminished my love for him for years and when I even conceded to accept him as he is, he still lied. I did it because all I am is fuel to him..not a person, not someone he loved, not someone with feelings,who feels sad and lonely and hurt. Just fuel that makes him feel better. He saw me as the one to make him happy, despite my own happiness.
          I would say Lisa, do what you need to do to fell better. I wanted to tell you I felt the same as you, I replied to his Hoover. It changed nothing, no closer at all. If you wish to orchestrate a Hoover by him or contact him yourself. Firstly prepare yourself for what may occur, his denial. His anger, his blame on you and him being with someone else. Because when they ignore us, it is because they are with them. Do what is best for you after weighing all the options and possible consquences. You a re better not hearing from him, but I do understand why you need to hear from him.
          I won’t say don’t contact him or don’t wish he Hoover you, because I have been there. I will say understand the situation and what you want or need and then do what will benefit you most.

        1. I find him sexy, there is a difference. I don’t see people as attractive or sexy. I feel them. My determination, is based on what I feel when I look at someone, what I feel when I am In someones prescence. Probably when many question my concept of attraction. I don’t base on what my eyes see as conventionally determined to be attractive by societal standards. I base it on what my mind thinks and my heart feels. Yes, he does something to me. It is more about how something in someone else can positively effect me. Recall, I feel same with Elvis Costello, could be the glasses, now I think on it..just kidding. Hope all is good with you Nikita xx

          1. Expand on how this “feeling” works. How does it manifest inside of you? How does it make you feel? Do you know what it is that you are feeling about the other person? Do you need to be in their presence to feel this?

          2. It is a connection of attraction. It is complicated to explain as it is based in feelings, not factual information. Men have been attracted to me, I am attracted to very few men. I only ever initiated one relationship and that was because I knew how he felt about me prior. I do not seek out relationships, they seek me out.
            It manifests in feeling, whether it be a physical feeling, emotional or spiritual connection. It makes me feel connection. Are you referring to level of attraction ? I can feel in their presence or away from them. I feel it when something becomes triggered within realtionships to that person. As I said. It is not habitual feeling. It is based firstly in my mind, thoughts triggered about that person , which then relates to physical feelings relating to the thoughts of that person which translates to emotional feelings of …desire, love, happiness, attraction, lust, hope, the list is endless. It is not related to what they do for me or what they say, it is purely related to how I feel. I cannot properly assess this to you. Do I need to feel attraction in their presence, no, I do not. Out of sight. Is not out of mind. Why do you think I still loved CN. The same when he was gone for months on end.
            Why the questions on How I feel attraction HG?

          3. My apologies HG. Your questions showed up in my reader replies, so hence I replied promptly as I thought you were asking me, not Nikita those questions based on my previous statement regarding feeling of attraction.. I realized when my reply was not posted and Nikita replied to it. It must have been meant for her , instead. My mistake.

          4. No the question was aimed at you PM. I have your answer which I shall be considering in due course. Thank you for responding.

          5. Okay. I have so many reader reply issues, I replied to question ABB posed to you last week when it showed up in mine. So I thought it was same thing. I don’t like to step into questions. Meant for others. Why I apologized. Okay, thank you For letting me know. I didn’t think I actually Explained the process for myself, very well. Hope you can understand the gist of What I mean. Plus, as you know I enjoy answering questions posed to me. I reply to any and all. Why I ask so many as well.

          6. HI PM

            Yes me too its all about the feelings. Actually I dont care on how someone looks.. But i was not able to feel anything except stress going through security and my highheels beeped and i noticed him because my working colleagues were speaking about him..
            And yes Elvis Costello look much better 😃.
            I am fine with loads of work. Hope you too doing fine.

          7. I can understand to a point, what you are saying here J!! Yes….. i am only human so there are of course going to be people who i naturally find sexy as hell!!! BUT….. the ones i find truly beautiful…. they are usually people who i have spent time getting to know or even people who have got a personality that just speaks to me on some level!! I can see their true beauty in the things that attract me to them…. i can see it in their flaws!!

            However…… their is also the fact that i am but still a Borderline!! When someone sparks that part of me…. when there is a raw, unfiltered attraction to someone…… they will work their way up high onto the pedastal and yes….. i do believe i have loved each and every one of them!!… the problem however is that what i feel…. that attraction i feel….. when mutual…. sends me into a frezy of sorts and yes….. they become the centre of my stage!! That love that I feel… its completely and utterly ALL CONSUMING!!! Its the type of love that one could imagine breeding a “Fatal Attraction” type situation out of!!!…. thankfully im far too much of a lover rather than a fighter (not to say i havent had much time over many years in said fighter role!!!… thats a matter of what i call self presevation… or i did at the time!!).

            Once that attraction is felt however… their physical outter appearance fades away and all i can see is this true, innate beauty that is before me!! This beauty where in that very moment, i believe with everything I have that that person infront of me…. with their flaws, faults, whatevers….. that they are truly perfect for me in every way possible!!!

          8. That is Great assessment in how who you feel attraction CJ. I don’t pedastal people I am attracted to, I do have differing levels of attraction for personal Intimate relationships. Say a stranger opposed to a loved one. It is a deeper level of attraction to a loved one, the other is a spark of feeling that is triggered. I dint know why it isn’t related to appearance for me. I suppose it might be at some hidden level. I do like noses, if that counts and eyes…..I prefer men taller then me.
            Yes, CJ! When we love someone we do not see their faults or flaws. Hence how we relate to N’s. We see them as we feel them from deep inside us. It is real and genuine and deeper them mere attraction, I separate love and attraction.

        1. Indeed they do Jaded!!! Plus looks do not exactly equal person of substance or intellugence or honour or any other good and reddeming quality!!! Someones looks tell you NOTHING about them!!!

  17. Looks like I am simply a normal by these traits. Even with my ex, I may. Discuss issues that occurred between us, as this is a narcssisim forum, but I do not do malign or smear him elsewhere. Plus,I have shared attributes of him that I liked and praised. CN never ran down his exes, Mn did from his mum to ex wife and everyone in between and after…which was me.
    I openly discuss when asked about my childhood, mind you I don’t get into the aspects of abuse and emotional abandonment with indivuals unfamiliar with such issues. As it may make them uncomfortable.
    I am very detail oriented type person and open to answering any questions posed to me. I do not make others jealous, nor to I make someone feel unimportant by ignoring them or making them feel less in My company.
    I have been made to feel all these though…interesting article HG.
    On that note, I am off and away again.

  18. I find that learning so much about narcissism is a double-edged sword for me. Because now, I find that every time I meet a new person, I’m wondering if this person is a potential narcissist. I used to be trusting and give people the benefit of the doubt until given a reason not to. The other day, a guy I never met before came up to me at the gym and started talking to me and he said he liked me and then left because he was done with his workout. And all I could think of was whether he was a potential narcissist and do I have “sucker” written on my forehead. I know it’s cynical but I couldn’t help it.

    1. I really understand where you’re coming from with this ann.

      I went out recently, & guy came up to me obviously wanting to get to know me better & I could hardly speak. It was like whohoh .. no way , Jose .

      I don’t know if it’s my lack of confidence or the fact that my guards still well up, probably a combination of both, but I was out of there faster than HG can spot a new fuel supply .. ! 🙂

      1. Hi So Sad. Thank you for sharing. And this is why we are on this site, aren’t we? To get support and hopefully, strength from each other as we go through recovery. Yes, being in the company of a narc really erodes ones confidence. That’s why I always carry a book and my music with me when I go places alone. I can bury my nose in my book while dining alone at a restaurant or put on my headset when at the gym. To discourage somebody from approaching. It works most of the time. 😊

    2. Hi Ann. I understand this. I too am looking for the boogeyman man in every man now! I hate it. I no longer feel free to brighten up a room with my smile because that to me is Narc bait! I also feel like my story is too much for any healthy man to ever want me now. I get flirted with all the time. That’s as far as it goes. It’s lonely. I don’t want the Narc to steal my essence. Right now it seems they have.

      1. Hi Heather. I’m working on it myself, but don’t let your narc win by changing who you truly are. We just need to be hypervigilant until we have sufficiently recovered. I also often ask that question, if a heathy man will ever want me. Nobody is perfect (well maybe except for HG, of course 😆), and if they expect perfection in someone else, then they had better be perfect, themselves! Fortunately, I’ve always enjoyed my own company. It comes from being an only child. I learned to entertain myself. But I do have friends and family that I can reach out to when I want to be around people. Do you have that support? I am in no hurry to date again. I have learned that it’s good policy to date when you’re ready, not when you’re lonely. Right now, I’m just concentrating on getting myself better, mentally and emotionally. I’m working on my internal people-picker because it obviously went AWOL last time. I know that there are no guarantees in life, but I want to be sufficiently armed with the knowledge so that my next time won’t be like the last time. Stay strong!

    3. It’s a running joke between my closest girlfriend and I that every guy I venture out on a date with is probably a sociopath.

      It really is a challenge to make the leap from healing to healed …if only the gap exists in our own mind. A wise mentor in my life reminds me that my abusive relationship is in the past and it no longer defines me. It really doesn’t, but this neuroplasticity (or lack of) is a bitch.

      1. Hi Bethany. I agree with your wise mentor. What defines us as a person is how we rise above adversity. Isn’t there a saying that says “life is 10% of what happens and 90% of how you react to it?” Hugs!

  19. Yep. The first time I never saw it coming. The second time I ignored Red Flags. Shame on me.

    Another post to add to my toolbelt. After #1 and seeing what the non narc would do, I turned it into a game of how would a non narc respond for the remaining warnings? 4-4. I might just be ready to start dating again, thanks to you.

    1. Jeremy Renner is so badass and hot. I first saw him in an episode of Angel. His performance in The Hurt Locker had me on edge the entire movie. Yet, he revealed sensitve as a husband and father in The Avengers…swoon.

    2. Thank you for knowing that when I ask for paper bags, I really want the meat in plastic. Thank you for not packing my cleaning products with my produce. You should get a raise. (The phone thing while eating is just fn rude and might not warrant a future *glares*).

    3. I might say that a hockey player was offside when he wasn’t and look for a reaction to “icing the puck”…

    4. With ex2 I didn’t have to ask. He volunteered on the second date. Red Flag. If we ever make it to a third date, I might bring it up in passing. Wait..shouldn’t we be having sex on the third date? Ummm. No.

    5. Much like #4 he volunteered that his brothers were dead to him. I wouldn’t feel funny asking about family on the first date. Light questions to start.

    On second thought, not quite ready to date, but well equipped.

      1. Pfft. He has nothing on you. Don’t even try..bc when or if ABB answers my question, you will claim to be that person too….as far as Science has come, it hasn’t yet come to that point.

      1. I’d love it if HG revealed his identity…then I could replace Jeremy Renner. It would probably send any man into a brief flicker of jealousy. The rebounding reaction of the person i was with would be key. HG won’t do that.

        Til then it’s Renner. I was hooked in The Hurt Locker. Maybe it was the character. If you don’t like him, more for me. At least there won’t be catfights.

        Who would you use in HGs example?

        1. 1J1,
          I was teasing u. I knew what u meant. I love your comments. You seem like a really fun, friendly, totally comfortable, lets hang out kinda person. You are humorous too, which i love. JR can be all yours. (Who shot JR? Lol)
          I think all Narcs would be jealous even if you thought Big Mac underwear tellitubbies were sexy! Sorry Twinkletoes had to…lol

          My go to man always changes. I think that is due to my prior dark necessities. I seen Chris Martin again last night. As I looked at him I didn’t feel that wanton feeling anymore. I met him a year ago in September. Maybe I didn’t get enough fuel? So my search for a replacement go to is on.
          HG is a proxy for my proxys proxy…lol but true. So I’m always going to always fantasize about him….see HG, u are the one for me.

      2. That’s nice of you to say. If I’m any of those things, I give WP and the wonderful community credit for bringing it out. In non blog world, it is slowly coming out, but still very, very guarded. I’m more like a sidekick. I will ride shotgun while you do a midnight drive by to drop off your ex’s things (done it twice).

        This is a very serious subject and I sometimes wonder if I’m being flippant. HG is helping me maintain my sobriety, so to speak. Can’t thank him enough.

        I enjoy your comments as well. You make me laugh and omg…your pottymouth. Was soap a food group in your childhood, too? Who shot JR…lol. The proxy of your proxy made sense.

  20. HG, as I checked the list again I found my ex falling into all 3 categories! Know wonder I was so confused by his actions! Thank you for this list, I will keep it with me since when I am finished with my vacation I will be dealing with my ex on more of a one on one at work and there will be times that we will be the only two people in the building. I will be able to see which one he tends to lean more towards. Xxx

  21. When you ask Tubby about his childhood he talks about how he was instutionalized from age 17-18. Is that lesser then?

    Sigh. i miss my little fucktard.

    1. I have to admit TT that every time you make reference to him you make me laugh. He stands out as a Lesser Victim variety to me. Was he sent to an institution? Have you independently verified that or was it just something he mentioned.

      1. Yes, he told me within a month of meeting me. He’s not really charming or powerful like you, I think I just felt sorry for him. Despite it all though he was a loyal friend (or so I thought). A safe choice, for my battered self esteem. I thought he’d never leave. ha. You get what i’m saying? I know this sounds terrible, it really does irk me someone like this thinks im so beneath them.

  22. HG is it possible for a Narc to have tendencies of a mid-range ‘as well’ as a greater? I see both in my ex-Narc. And will either admit they are a Narc or is it customary for them not to divulge it?

    1. Indeed it is. You may see some mid-range tendencies in respect of certain behaviours and others which belong to the greater. Overall if one group dominates that person will belong to that school or they may be on the cusp of two schools if the attributes and characteristics are roughly equal. Lessers and Mid-Rangers do not divulge as they do not know. Greaters know but don’t divulge as part of the manipulation, save when they may think that such an admission may serve them well or when their guard is lowered (perhaps through drink or drugs) and the truth is admitted. After all, it is man’s second greatest urge to confess.

      1. Interesting. That would be why he would not admit. Sometimes it’s hard to tell if he just didn’t know or if he was withholding to his advantage because the blame always shifted to me. I do have to say he is a beer drinking and oh how I wished I had known before about narcissism…I would have found it quite interesting to confront after a good bit of beer to see what his response would have been. Not a chance in Hell that would be happening now with no contact :-). HG I really like it when you write your blog posts and incorporate different scenarios based on their level. Such a high grade of knowledge for us survivors. Thank you.

        1. Thank you SW I am pleased that you find these works of particular interest. There are more in the pipeline. You will also find additional material concerning the Lesser, Mid-Range and the Greater in Ask 2 which will be out tomorrow. You will also no doubt find the cadre collection and the schools of narcissism which I am working on at present of considerable interest. Tank you for reading.

  23. I just ran across your books a few days ago and signed up on the blog yesterday. This has all been very helpful. The realities of it are very painful as I realize that at 51 I have only been in relationships with narcissists. This last one being one of the most painful. The more posts that I read the more assured I am that I’m not crazy and my decision to go no contact was correct. Thank you for your brutal no nonsense truths.

    1. Hello Karen, welcome on board and thank you for making yourself known. Yes it is the brutal truth but that is the most effective way of allowing you to understand what is happening. How many narcissists have you been involved with? Are you still in a relationship with one or have you escaped? I do hope you continue to contribute. Not only will you find considerable insight and enlightenment here and in my books but the comments of other contributors add value (obviously not as much as I do) to the experience as well. They are an articulate and interesting group even if they like to push my buttons at times!

      1. You are pushing OUR buttons! FINALLY we have the mutuality we always wanted with our Narcs! See!! It IS possible! 😀

      2. Well I got married to my 1st narcissistic at 19. Was married for 21 years. He is also a sociopath. Shamefully I had a couple of relationships during my marriage. So sex addicts along with narcissistic traits. My second husband and I started dating 8 months after my divorce. We were together about 8-9 years. He is a passive aggressive but after reading all of this I understand he is very much a narcissistic too. The final relationship I ended on May 17 of this year. This is the relationship that pushed me into the place of needing true support for myself and a clear path to figure out why I keep attracting and falling for these people. This is where your information along with some other material has been key in getting me to wake up. I fall for the charm. I do this for multiple reasons that are more than you may want to read here :). But anyway, now that I am aware I can implement a new way of viewing and doing things. So thanks for the blog and the brutal honesty again, Karen

      3. Well, I believe it’s the charm that attracts me. It somehow fed into parts of me that were lacking. I was reading a book recently that seemed to explain why I do this. It was talking about as children we all want to have a sense of belonging. If it doesn’t happen with our parents and we can spend our whole lives feeling like we want to belong to someone. It kind of puts us like the child in every relationship. This works very perfectly for your kind as well, as I have found out. I have a good support system, so it’s easier to implement the things that I’m learning as they come up. It had a pretty good hold on me, I did recognize and I was just part of a harem. So, finally, I realized this is not what I want or how I want to be treated.. It is amazing how hard it can be even after knowing that. I mostly have reached a place where I just replaced him with other things, activities and healthy people while I work on identifying and strengthening my own self. Grateful for this blog and the books as it has made a huge difference in knowing I’m not alone, and not crazy 😊

    2. Hi Karen,

      I hope you’re doing well today.,I can relate to the crushing dawn of realizing that all intimate relationships you have experienced have been with narcissists. It is quite painful to accept but Healing can begin once you recognize yourself as the common denominator and set out on a journey toward self discovery. Sending thoughts of support and courage to you.

      1. Thank you. I have already been in the midst of changes and self discovery over the last 2 years. I have been proud I guess you could say of my empathetic abilities. That makes me laugh now just to say as I’m sure that was being sent out like a smoke signal. Here I am! Use me!! I have found it hard to believe that someone can actually intentionally do some of these things to another human. It’s not in my makeup. This information is just what I need to make sure that I really get a good dose of reality. I have to not be naive any longer. Karen

  24. This is an excellent, informative and highly practical post, thank you HG. I shall have to file this one away and re read. Will be very handy as preparation should I ever choose to start dating again.

  25. That was a very interesting read indeed!!!

    I find it slighty disconcerting however, that I can see more of myself yet again in what you have written here!!

    I may need to start questioning certain aspects of who I am HG….. was stumbling across your blog such a great thing for me after all??! Lmfao 😉

  26. HG this is really great the comparison of the 3 together with the normal person. Absolutely fantastic. Its even a little checklist as the 5 occassions are so from every day life. Really great. Your work is very valuable.Nobody explains Narcissims in all its depths like you.
    I will do the checklists to my exes to see where they fall.
    Thanks for posting <3

  27. He talked about his nieces not my narc I mean and brother his brother said why I have them if I can’t see them? They were busy 24/7 never in their house during that timeout period why would he ask that question if he had a full agenda he made himself when I asked him what it was like to be an uncle ? And and at that time they were busy 24/7 still are now is worse how could he ask such a stupid redundant question? Are they all mad?

  28. Wow wonderful pretend on the whole family experience you talked like a normal person about it mixed with the frater quality . His brother says about his nephews which I never understood much if he loved them why would he say why I have them if I cannot see them? But us he who makes his own agenda and they’re too busy all the time at the time of the great times

    1. Now is worse does it mean he and his entire family are worsening they are all like that psychologically I mean in mental health level?

  29. I was having lunch with my friends and mine stated turning the tv annoyingly louder I resisted is he k d of the greatest ? I don’t remember what he said afterwards . I had bluntly ignored him for s couple of days and he was trying to get my attention like a little kid the tv was in and he turned it louder with great dissimulation I looked and he had s menace like Dennis the menace look in his eye as he often did when he was doing something machiavelic and funny trying to get my attention

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