Icing On The Awake



The bedroom is one of my favourite rooms. One of my ex-girlfriends used to call it the torture chamber. Another called it the freezer. Their appellations amused me. I don’t like to be touched. Dr O has suggested this is because that touch reminds me too much of what I am missing. I laughed at her remark. I prefer not to be touched, so how on earth would I miss that? I soon learned in the bedroom however that there was an expectancy to touch and hold. At first I would go along with this ritual but I soon tired of it and the thought of ‘spooning’ made me gag. I then learned however that my dislike of being touched and touching was actual a very useful weapon. I initially refrained from touching purely because I did not like it. No more. No less. The person in bed with me however would make such a scene about it that I learned they had to be touched or held to affirm that I felt something for them. Accordingly, by withholding any form of contact this would really upset them. It was marvellous. I was able to turn an idiosyncrasy of mine into a tool to cause upset and distress. If I refused to cuddle up (I’m shuddering just typing that) then I would be met with loud sighs and pleading requests. This emboldened me to not even face their way. In fact, I would lie looking at them and then purposefully turn my back on them. Moments later the sobbing would start and I would feel the power flowing through me before I drifted off to sleep. From what they told me, they endured many a lonely night trying to sleep. If they tried to place an arm around me, I would shrug it off or if really irritated (and this was a body blow) I would get up and sleep in the spare room. I love doing this. Not only do I get to really isolate the other person but then I can criticise them in the morning for forcing me from my bed and into the spare room. That gives me a delightful boost as I butter my toast.

47 thoughts on “Icing On The Awake

  1. Matilda says:

    Snow White,
    amazing how our stories are all similar, isn’t it? As if our narcs had read the same text book!!

    Yes, the old self might not come back… I know it won’t in my case, but that is okay… everything evolves in life, why should’t we?

    Yes, it is wonderful to find kindred spirits, people who really understand – to laugh, cry and heal together ๐Ÿ™‚

    Thank you, Snow White! โค๏ธ You are on a good path yourself, I can sense…. don’t look back, march on! Onwards and upwards! ๐Ÿ˜€

  2. Matilda says:

    Thank you, Snow White, I am glad that you enjoyed reading my comment, that means a lot to me.

    Yes, scent and touch… oh my God, how accurate…

    I was hurting when I met him, surely he sensed that. He promised me a ‘together forever’, and the way he spoke -with such confidence and gentleness- I felt so calm inside, safe and secure in his presence. As if I had found the one who was meant for me, as if it was fate that we met. As if my search had ended, that’s how it felt. There were red flags, but I brushed them aside. I thought love can conquer all, we were meant to be together. The awakening was so brutal I hoped for death to take me away… I do not wish him ill anymore, but I will never forgive him.

    Yes, it takes time to heal and no one but you knows when you are ready for a new beginning. If I could delete all my memories of him, I would. I want my old self back. He killed her. You rise as someone entirely new, and it takes a while for your soul to catch up, I think… until you can see yourself as whole again. I think I have reached that point now.

    I had an on/off ‘relationship’ for eight months, and I am almost 12 months NC. Very proud of myself for that. Heaven knows I wanted to break it! But if you break NC, you are back at square one and you cannot allow that to happen.

    I am not in therapy. I cannot talk about feelings. Let alone with a stranger who does not grasp what I am trying to say yet thinks (s)he has all the answers. I do not talk about things that matter, I write them down. It has saved my sanity, and probably my life. I also read a lot, old and new works, on everything that is connected with the broader topic of narcissism. I need to know things thoroughly to really understand, to let it sink in, to heal, and to shield myself from danger henceforth.

    Thank you for your hugs, Snow White, that is sweet of you x ๐Ÿ˜€

    1. Snow White says:

      Oh my Matilda,
      I could have written that whole paragraph starting with “together forever” word for word. I felt safe just like you and thought fate brought us together. I said to her many times that love conquers all. WOW!

      My old self is in hiding. I miss her too. That’s another loss I’m grieving. My therapist told my husband that the kind, trusting old self that I was might not come back.

      I have never been a writer. I prefer to talk. I did start journaling and then when I started this blog I put that on pause. I have found it to be very therapeutic to write here everyday. I feel that I can say anything and the readers here and HG know what I’m going through. I’m glad the writing and reading has worked for you.

      12 months is great. That is an accomplishment. I know how hard it is and how much work it takes.
      Congratulations Matilda โค๏ธ

  3. Snow White says:

    Hi Matilda,
    I have enjoyed reading all your posts.

    It’s sensory overload for me just like being out in public. I can’t stand anyone to bump into me. It’s startling to me.
    I don’t trust people and it could be I believe that they have an agenda and want something from me. It could be that I still feel my exes touch.
    We haven’t gotten to the root of the problem. It’s one of my biggest obstacles.
    My reactions are like this when its my husband. I don’t say these out loud but it’s what I think.
    “Why are you touching me”
    “What do you want”
    “I don’t want to be touched”
    I believe it has something to do with how I was programmed not to want to be with my husband. She gradually had me resisting him in all ways and then accepting her in every way. She took his place and was everything to me. My marriage before wasn’t perfect but pretty normal.

    My therapist has encouraged me to start with the small things.
    Sitting on the couch with my husband.
    Holding his hand.
    Letting him put his hand on my back.
    These are all hard to do for me and she asks me about them every week. ๐Ÿ˜ฃ
    Only a little progress has been made but it’s going in the right direction.
    What are your thoughts Matilda?

    1. Matilda says:

      Thank you, Snow White :-)… I really enjoy reading your comments, and everybody else’s… this blog is inspiring, thought-provoking, and addictive! ๐Ÿ™‚

      I am astonished how similar our thought processes are.

      Yes, being thrown into a crowd makes me uncomfortable – too much noise, and your personal space is being invaded. My first experience travelling on the Tube (underground) during rush hour: I thought ‘this is what HELL looks like! I am not going to squeeze myself into this carriage, I’ll wait for the next train’. Needless to say, the next one was just as full. :-D. Over time, you desensitise quite a bit, as you realise most people feel the same and do it nevertheless! We are all in this hot mess together -literally so- and I think that is the lesson to be learned from that.

      Many people have experienced pain as we did, and much worse! They pick up the pieces of their lives, and move on eventually, stronger and wiser. Because life goes on.

      Trust is a major problem. I, too, question everything I am told, even positive things such as compliments, and ask myself: ‘why would you say that, why now, what do you want?’

      My memory is visual and visceral. That is the main problem, I believe. His presence still lingered long after he had left. I could feel his energy in my apartment, I could see how he moved, where he rested, in my mind’s eye. At first, I felt comfort in that, I held onto it. I returned to places we had been to, to feel him near. I felt so lost. After a while, it turned into torment, I could not bear to be anywhere I was reminded of him. I moved homes and that was a relief. Those who cannot just pack and leave, might have to redecorate their homes, buy new furniture, paint the walls black? :-). You would have to do *something* to chase the ghost of him out of your home.

      And also, for the future, I learned that it is probably for the best to be very careful *not* to take a new acquaintance anywhere near your cherished places. Everpresence, HG talked about, is very real, and it blew my mind to think it is done on purpose! My narc did not, I believe, he is an upper Mid-Range, but he must have known instinctively that it would work.

      I was grateful when I lost the memory of his voice after a while, but I can still feel his touch on me. That may well be the root of the matter. I have read about trauma due to my PTSD and the physical symptoms that go along with that, and the concept of *trauma being ingrained in your body* makes so much sense to me!! Where there is an inner resistance to something, where it hurts, that is exactly where we need to go to heal. The symptom points to the problem and to the cure.

      How can we overcome this? I agree with you: it is desensitising, little by little, baby steps! I met some who wanted too much too soon, which resulted in my complete withdrawal. It has to happen in our time, and pace, it cannot be forced. Progress is not for someone else to judge anyway… progress is what you see in yourself as improvement, however small.

      We will get there, Snow White… physical touch is integral to emotional well-being, and it conveys so more than words ever can… to give up on it is just too big a sacrifice…

      1. Snow White says:

        Hi Matilda,
        You said all of that so well!
        I agree with everything you said.
        I held onto everything that reminded me of her for the first few months and there are still several things around here but the hold they have on me aren’t as strong as in the beginning. I missed her scent and touch. And I think you are right about that being the root. I can still feel her touch and somewhere in me I still think I belong to her. It’s heart wrenching to think that she can still have that hold on me.

        Grieving and healing absolutely has to be at our own pace. This has been the hardest for my family. It sounds like you have made a good bit of progress yourselfโค๏ธ

        How long have you been NC and how long was your relationship? Are you in therapy now?

        Sending you lots of hugsโค๏ธ๐ŸŽโค๏ธ

  4. Matilda says:

    Hi Snow White,

    “Touching after this whole mess is another story… now I canโ€™t deal with the sensation of the touch.”

    That’s how it feels for me, too… what do you think is the reason for that? what does your therapist say when you try to explain?

  5. DFA says:

    Touch can mean so much, to touch your face but for a moment

  6. sr201 says:

    Wow HG. That was pretty raw. I’m grateful for that. My ex N used that against me, and since I’ve come to see this part of you guys as the underlying truth, it makes sense now. All makes sense. Not ok, but it is a relief to know it wasn’t b/c there was something actually wrong with me. I wonder how many people have killed themselves over the years b/c a Narc made them feel they were not worth touching or loving. Hmmm. I know that brings no emotion to you, but for me… reassures me that the thoughts to put a gun to my head in times past b/c I was made to feel ugly, and not good enough were and never would be worth entertaining since the truth is I am more than good enough, which is actually why the Narc chose me in the first place!! Whoop whoop now that is freedom!!! You shall know the truth and truth shall set you free!!!

  7. Lacy says:

    I would like to punch you in the throat….(she said with no emotion)

  8. AH OH says:

    I like hugs but I also like my own room. I think a couple should have their own rooms for many reasons.
    Spooning? Well it better be a prelude to things to cum, I mean come.

  9. weary heart says:

    My ex remained a cuddler. Almost too much sometimes. Forever I thought he was borderline personality, but towards the end it seemed everything was a sick game and now reading your posts Im nearly certain he is a narcissist/sociopath. How can I be certain? I mentioned in an earlier comment that I was never truely discarded. He would drive me and our son off to my moms, but would never go too long without texting and the hoover always came about 3 days in. There was a month that I stayed at my sisters, but we were in touch everyday. Im lost and desperate for answers because my 5 year old son is involved.

    1. sr201 says:

      WH…. The Narc will keep you in the game as long as you will play it. If he leaves you for days at a time, then he is discarding you for those days, but knows he can keep you as a source to come back to. If he is a true Narc then you are nothing but a source, and fuel to him… fuel that he has you right where he wants you to come and go as he pleases, thus giving him power and control over you. It part of the process. It’s up to you if you will be a pawn in the process. Sad but true!

  10. Jamie M says:

    I rarely like affection as well, most likely due to the fact that I see sex & love as two separate worlds. Can’t link them together, as I’ve said in another post last week.

    Don’t worry HG, I won’t make you spoon me. And if you try to cuddle me (*shudder*), I will demand that you sleep in the other room as punishment for even trying.

    Cuddles are for codependents. I like to have my king sized bed to myself. Perhaps you should buy your own for the spare bedroom, yes?

    1. Love says:

      Lol yay! Cuddles are for me! My poor narcs, I would wrap around them like a koala multiple times a day. They would fight it, complaining their neck, knee, back, something hurt. But eventually they learned the torture would end sooner if they didn’t resist, so they endured it.
      Ironically I’m not a huggar in normal life. Its actually hard for me to be touched by other people (aside from my IP). I remember in high school, I flinched when a friend tried to hug me. I was not used to it. Now I can hug in social circles. But it is difficult with strangers (non-narcs).

      1. Snow White says:

        I loved any kind of touching Love!!! Some body part always had to be touching her. Just like your koala. Lol
        Touching after this whole mess is another story. I flinch when someone puts there hand on me. I don’t like it unless it’s one of the kids in my class. I can’t handle it and it’s hard to explain to me therapist that before I had zero issues and would touch and hug anyone and now I can’t deal with the sensation of the touch.

      2. Love says:

        I’m sorry Snow. Was she your first narc experience?

        1. Snow White says:

          Yes Love!!!
          I had no idea that there was this underground group of people. I was taken in from first sight of her. I thought I was made for her and that she needed me and she just needed love and understanding. I had no idea she was looking to break up my marriage or wanted me for another one of her wives. It all felt so real and was so gradual that I didn’t know any games were being played. The perspectives were different from day one and I had no chance.

      3. Love says:

        Oh my goodness. You were a deer in headlights. I think your experience was much harder to endure than for most empathic individuals. The majority of us have narcs in our family. It is familiar and comforting. The narc machinations are not so shocking to us. In a twisted way, some of us welcome the abuse.

        1. Snow White says:

          Hi Love,
          It was soooo new to me. I am so grateful that I’m not single. I wouldn’t make it. Lol
          I won’t be making new friends either any time soon. That’s all I thought I was getting with my ex. She was supposed to be my best friend.
          Hope you enjoyed your weekend๐Ÿ˜ƒ

      4. Love says:

        Wow Snow. You have a great spouse. I’m glad he’s been your rock. How amazing.
        Now that is a completely foreign concept to me : a partner that stands by your side through thick and thin… Someone who loves you purely for who you are and accepts you as is… Someone who you can depend on … Someone whose love you do not constantly have to earn and work so hard for.

        1. Snow White says:

          You sound like quite a catch Love. Someone is out there for you. I know it. Did you say that you are single right now?

          1. NarcAngel says:

            Snow I dont know your story. Does your husband know about your relationship with this woman? Apologies if Im overstepping.

          2. Snow White says:

            Hi NA,
            Not overstepping at all. I’ve confessed everything here. Lol
            He does know everything about her. Not as much detail as everyone here or what I say in the therapists office.
            He was aware of her from the beginning and didn’t trust her from the start but I insisted she was a good person and that he just didn’t know her. I met her at the gym and she went from aquaintance, friend, best friend, soul mate, fiancรฉ, and then all hell broke loose. I was in over my head. I was still married and engaged to another woman. My husband got me out. I didn’t go peacefully but some sense was talked into me and I left her.
            That was seven months ago. I had never had someone turn my world upside down like that.
            HG has answered all my questions and saved me from going back. I still was thinking about it when I started here. Won’t admit that anywhere else but here either.

          3. NarcAngel says:

            Wow thats a lotta action! Had you been attracted to women before her? On a lighter note- props to your husband- most men would invite the 3rd party female not drag you away lol so he must have sensed danger over jealousy with her.

          4. Snow White says:

            Hi NA,
            I have been married for 22 years and met my husband when I was 21. I hadn’t date much. Looking back I could have dated male or female. I had never been with a woman before. If I was single I could go either way. I identify as bisexual now.
            The lighter part cracked me up. ๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚
            I have to say she definely wasn’t on the feminine side. Lol
            He had no interest whatsoever. It would have been more like two males and one female.
            He was jealous at first just because we spent so much time together and he then sensed that I was under her control but had no idea what really was happening. Nobody could have guessed what was really going on.

      5. Love says:

        Thank you Snow. That is a very nice compliment. Yes I’m single. I understand if I truly want a healthy relationship, I need to first rewire my brain and stop diving into narc waters.
        Unfortunately I’m still not ready to do that.

      6. me too,cuddling and spooning, never was rejected by my N. I wrapped around him like a snake.

  11. Love says:

    One narc of mine said he spooned with his mom (him being the outter spoon) until his early teens. His mother was a narc too. He would deny me sex as punishment yet he never withheld cuddle time in bed. Though it was me spooning him. Does this make sense? I thought narc mothers were very cold and distant.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      As the outer spoon he was parenting the parent which is something which happens with the children of our kind. It is interesting that he allowed you to spoon him, was this all the way through the relationship Love?

      1. Love says:

        Oh yes. All 3 years of it. Of course I was on cloud 9. It was wonderful to touch and breathe him in He was still the outer spoon. He didn’t spoon me much though. He’d always turn around and allow me my piece of heaven.
        Awww memories …

  12. NarcAngel says:

    Well I’m with you there. I hate spooning, massages, holding hands, back rubs, all that stuff. And when I go to bed I am tired want to sleep-no touching. Unless of course there’s to be sex in which case, when that’s over don’t linger and no cuddling. I do not really care about sex and intimacy and actually agree with the adage that if you want anything done right ………..that is not to say that my husband is not good in the bedroom-in fact any woman would be glad to have him. He is handsome, attentive, has no problem delivering the goods, and I make sure he has a good time of it. I just don’t really enjoy it (but I act like I do). He is satisfied, doesn’t have to spend forever with foreplay, and no cuddling after. I’m most mens dream in that regard. That might surprise some on here since I supposedly meet men for sex. That is because it is not really about sex but its what is expected when two people get together (especially when both are married). I don’t know too many who are meeting up to go to bookclub. There is acting on both sides. I am expected to be sexual so I act that way, and I don’t mind showing my body. They on the other hand think I expect intimacy and sex and like to show me their body so they make the appropriate comments and play to it until its decided we meet. I always thought they were just proud to be able to “land” me and put another notch on their belt and it worked into my plan for them, but now I know that is known as “fuel” and part of the overall seduction due to being educated here. So many things make sense now and I have this blog and HGs books to thank. I am also learning much more about the dynamic between my StepNarc and I that I had wrong due to being a child and lack of knowledge. No he didnt touch me but I now can identify (again due to my education here) that he triangulated me with my Mother. Its a whole new world. I find myself reliving scenes from my life and applying what I now know and can see so clearly now the motives and why things (and more specifically me) ended up the way they did. Im truly fascinated and grateful to have found HG and all of you here who have shared. My situation is not the same as most of you but you have made me feel welcome all the same.

    1. Love says:

      Hmm, that’s very interesting NA. So you do not actually care for the act. Is it the mental games that stimulate you more? If I may ask, do you feel closer (or more bonded) with your spouse after sex? The reason I ask is you have emotions for him. I’ve read women release oxytocin after sex. I’m wondering if your feelings are stronger for him afterwards?

      I never understood the lack of passion within narcs. Passion is very primal for me. I incorporate all my senses: taste, touch, smell, sound, sight – as well as intuition. What stimulates me the most is feeling my partner’s pleasure. Yet I have never felt a burning desire from them. While I’m on fire, they’re going through the motions…
      The best part of the act for me is their release. That is the only time they actually exhibit pure emotion.

      1. NarcAngel says:

        Hi LOVE

        Ive always thought it was funny that its called an act. That is exactly what it is for me. With my husband I view it as his playtime and reward for being a good man and I am not cold or distant and I make it enjoyable but I really dont feel anything much else about it. Sometimes it feels nice and sometimes my body will respond but that is just a signal that it is over and has been successful. Strange though- I do not feel the repulsion of the intimacy then with him as I do other times ( with other people or hugging or being touched for instance). With normals I always enjoyed the fact that they wanted me-that was the good feeling. That I had a good body, and I was not easy to get so when they pursued I felt worthy of the hunt (i have always viewed men as hunters). With Narcs it is all mental and pure revenge. I love watching them go through all the motions knowing that they hate it and causing them to do the most intimate things. Then of course its not working on me and I make it known and that its them because this has never happened before etc. Some of them could not stay hard for very long which of course I used against them. Some also pretended to be into BDSM but only one could stand the treatment and I believe he was closeted gay. He wanted me to incorporate other men and so I agreed, but I would build it up that I had someone lined up (I didnt) and then it would fall through like their promises and cancellations, so in effect using their game against them. I did that to him because he was one of the worst Narcs I had and wanted to wound him-not because he may be gay. I have no ill feelings toward people of colour ( StepNarc was 1/2 black btw) or different sexual persuasion. When you take into consideration that the Narc is a machine then all of this makes sense and I was always confused about what I was because I have some empathy, (mostly toward animals but little for people) but I also was able to do mean things with little or no emotion. I feel between two worlds and yet not whatever normal is ( it sounds boring and not a goal to me lol) if that makes sense.

    2. Snow White says:

      Thanks NA for being that open.
      I enjoy reading other people’s situations. Most situations aren’t like mine either but I find every one interesting and helpful. For the first time I felt validated and so lucky that there were other out there like me and understood me and what I was going through.
      I love everyones perspectives. That’s why I stay here as well, I do feel welcome here.

      I don’t like the manipulations that go on in the bedroom HG. All the repercussions from this has taken a toll on me. It’s talked about every week in therapy.

      Do you answer the doctors questions when they bring up the intImacy topic? Are you making progress in this area? Mine are very small steps.
      Are you still turning over in bed and going to the other room? You say you love this so I don’t know if you will be able to give this up. Mine loved it and I can now see her smiling on the other side when I was crying. She thought it was fun and told me that several times.

  13. Miss P says:

    How does it work. One day – super super super romantic and tender and kind/ And next, touches you like you’re a sex object. What’s the truth?! Am I imagining it?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      No you are not Miss P. It is the manifestation of the split thinking which we engage in.

      1. Miss P says:

        what is that? How does that work? But if you like someone you can’t just flip over

        1. HG Tudor says:

          The split thinking? Everything is either black or white. If you are not with us, you must be against us. We do not see matters in grey. Thus, when we paint you white, you are wonderful, marvellous and you can do no wrong and then when the fuel provision dips, we consider you to be a traitor and thus you are painted black. Everything you then do is wrong, designed to try to topple us and we respond accordingly by lashing out in order to defend ourselves.

          I do not like people.
          I like their fuel. That is what governs how I deal with them.

          1. Miss P says:

            thanks HG – but what about the sex – how does it move from tender to self serving – what’s the split?

          2. HG Tudor says:

            Silt, when the devaluation starts. Read Sex and the Narcissist to learn more about this.

  14. Matilda says:

    When you touch her, you don’t just touch her body, you touch her heart and soul as well. It is all interconnected in an emotionally healthy human being.

    Memories, good and bad, are not only stored in your mind, they are ingrained in your body as well. You have emotionally disconnected yourself from your body due to the trauma you experienced as a child. That is why you think of yourself as a machine. It shows how numb you are inside. In order to survive, you suppressed the pain. Yet you also suppressed all other emotions such as joy and love. You have numbed them for so long, you cannot remember when you last felt them, or if you have ever felt them at all. That is what trauma does to the mind.

    You dislike touch because your body remembers what your mind wants to forget. You dislike touch because you fear what might be unearthed if you are held for too long. You dislike touch because you are terrified of feeling again.

    Catharsis is possible. Baby steps, HG!

  15. Disintegrated says:

    Firstly I’d respect that will but I’d find a way to steal touches and cuddles from You bit by bit month by month till You would start loving and missing them… This is the only thing I can actually DO…

    1. sr201 says:

      lololol ๐Ÿ˜‚ HG probably just excused himself to go throw up! Lol!! ๐Ÿ˜

      1. Disintegrated says:

        I doubt that for many reasons ๐Ÿ˜‰๐Ÿ˜‰๐Ÿ˜‰๐Ÿ˜‰

  16. Dawn says:


  17. Adele says:

    This is pure evil. Witholding intimacy is a favorite tool of narcs. eventually we move on tho. A person can only go thirsty for so long then they look for refreshment elsewhere

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