Knowing the Narcissist : The Contagion Empath

112 thoughts on “Knowing the Narcissist : The Contagion Empath

  1. Enthralled says:

    Just come across this – no idea if okay to share = HG can make that call.

    Talks about why introverted feeling types may see the future (in the context of a certain personality type) – but would work to maybe explain our dreams of the future and other stuff. Always thought it was Rogers but apparently it was Jung who talked about interconnectedness. Exciting for me because it encompases many of my thoughts in a cohesive way

    Link =

  2. Enthralled says:

    Hi HG – I have to admit that much of this resonated with me and was incredibly insightful. Even the fact that I too thought an empath referred to contagions, not knowing any different – until finding your site.

    I did feel that you were maybe in thought beyond the content spoken when I listened to this.

    My one question – which others have also expressed = is why a greater would gravitate to us; Is there a type that thrives on the challenge of independent prey? To achieve control over an elusive spirit and bring them to heel? Or is that more of a psychopath thing? Or maybe that is how I view my past experience? – In any case, I look forward to you revealing more 🙂

    1. HG Tudor says:

      A Greater would gravitate towards a particular empath because that empath would serve the appropriate needs of the Greater´s Prime Aims. Thus for example in relation to one of the Prime Aims they may well prove to be a challenge to control, but that challenge would prove entertaining and a testament to the skill of the Greater to “break in” that empath.

  3. Truthseeker6157 says:

    To those who were discussing the transmission of emotion I stumbled across something interesting. There has been a scientific study carried out at Boulder university. The study was summarised in Science Daily. The summary is as follows.

    “When an empathetic partner holds a lover’s hand, their heart rates and breathing rates sync and her pain subsides, new research shows. Authors say such ‘interpersonal synchronisation’ could play a role in the analgesic impacts of touch.”

    I was convinced that my empath friend was able to calm me just by hanging around in my space. He reported the same when he was suffering with anxiety.
    The study showed breathing and heart rate synchronisation was strongest when empathic partners held hands, however, there was also synchronisation when they were sitting beside each other but not touching.

    So in terms of anxiety, the suffering subject would have an elevated heart rate, the calm subject, normal, assuming both are healthy. If synchronisation between empathic people does occur as it appears to, then reduced heart rate and breathing rate would be a biological change that would likely cause a report of ‘feeling calmer’. With Contagion empaths being especially tuned in to the emotions of others you would logically expect the instances of synchronisation to be more frequent than amongst normal or narcissistic people.

    Whilst Contagion empathy is not about transmission of emotion I would suggest that Contagion empathy likely facilitates the biological response found by the study.

    Now I am content.

    1. Dani says:

      Fascinating information, TS. Thank you for sharing.

      1. Truthseeker6157 says:

        Hey Dani,

        I thought I was going crazy, I know what I felt, calmer.

        That study backs up what many nurses have probably seen for years with patients in hospital. What I found most interesting was that physical proximity was also measurable, not just touch alone.
        So this does tie in with descriptions on the blog, not just mine but others too. The same university is planning further studies along a similar vein so it will be interesting to see what other factors they look at.

        It’s just one study, it might be disproven by another study, but I felt it worth sharing. Glad you found it interesting.


    2. Contagious says:

      TS this is very informative. All my life I have been told coming to my home gives comfort and happiness. I am almost always the host to many. People say they feel calmer and more comfortable here. My friends teen likes my house and she suffers mentally greatly. You can see an almost biological change with her on entrance then time. Maybe it’s my home or maybe my contagian majority does give others a calmness. Maybe that’s why animals and children flock to us. This calmness. I would love it if true. Nothing I control, just a state of being;) thanks

      1. Truthseeker6157 says:

        Hi Contagious,

        It’s more food for thought isn’t it? There are probably numerous unseen factors that feed in to who we are and what we can do.

        Thinking about your comment about animals, animals probably are sensitive to heart and breathing rates. If you think about working dogs, dogs that are trained to wake up sufferers of PTSD when they are suffering a flashback or nightmare for example, that’s likely heart rate sensitivity, breathing rate, sweat etc.

        The biological sits entwined with the emotional / mental state. People with depression suffer physical aches and pains etc. so flipping that around maybe a Contagion, or more spiritual or more open individual would have a biological setting that signals ‘calm’ to animals. Humans for the most part and at their most basic are really just evolved pack animals.

        It falls down a bit because I’m not naturally what I would describe as calm or serene haha! That said, I can ‘be’ calm if calm is required. I remember consciously slowing myself down, concentrating on my own stillness when that family of deer were approaching me. I’ll never forget that, it was magical.


        1. Contagious says:

          Truthseeker! Thanks and very informative. What’s interesting is my best friend has a very troubled autistic teen. In and out of hospitals, cutting, violence, defiant, aggressive and yet so vulnerable and empathic at times you just love her. Her mother likes to visit as it helps her she says. She hugs me and that’s rare I am told. I am nurturing but with boundaries. While she is sloppy at home, I tell her to pick up her trash, make her bed etc… always lovely. Not at home. She talks to me about her troubles. She loves the ocean, nature and animals like me. I am very whimsical in design . My own daughter likes no clutter but She likes my home says it calms her. Maybe we just like the same things that calm us: whimsy, animals, nature, the ocean. Idk

    3. Leigh says:

      Hi TS & Contagious,
      I have some thoughts on this. I agree that both of you exude warmth and comfort which has a calming affect. I’m not sure if that comes from your Contagion element though. Have you ever come home to the narcissist and the anger is permeating through the house and enveloping you? Misery loves company is what comes to mind. They’re miserable and projecting that out to everyone. Another thing that comes to mind is laughter. Laughter is contagious. If someone is having one of those belly laughs and really enjoying the moment that permeates as well.

      Now, with all of that said, I think the two of you naturally have a calming affect on people. Its who you are. Its your inner peace shining through. For the narcissist, they project misery. For empaths, they project warmth. Narcissists don’t have empathy so when they’re projecting their misery on us, it has to come from something else.

      Just some thoughts I had that I wanted to share.

      1. Contagious says:

        Hi Leigh! Y s I have had narcs in my home. I have hosted many people in between with nowhere to go. My motive is service to Him. Some have taken my gift and given back tenfold with gratitude I don’t think amounts for what I “ should do. My cadre is matyr but my I go off and say matrys were Joan ofArc, Martin Luther King Jr, Gandhi, they weren’t lovers of suffering but believers in Justice. They served as heir God and I see it as one and the same, not some narc who stumbled across their path. And in mycase, the same! I gave a home to a few narcs who filled my home with CHAOS not misery but that fell on me in cleaning up and booting them out as they would not say thank you and leave. And I cut them out after except one as he is my sons brother but he can’t live with me again. He was to stay and he was most helpful, the best! But, he drank and did drugs and talked to himself endlessly, and never looked for a job. I gave him a 60 day deadline. I said “ do you have a drivers license?” “ yes.” “ Do you have a good driving record?” “Yes” “ great! Now you have a home and a job, here is the number to Uber.”He wouldnt leave and I took him in 3 times before that. I had to get others to help him out. So yea, I have had narcs in th house. Agreed. But I never suffered for suffering sake, I thought I was doing His work. I think I did. But some are not deserving, they take an inch and keep taking without redemption.

        1. Leigh says:

          HI Contagious,
          I think you misunderstood me. I was saying that I don’t know if its your Contagion element that projects emotions. I think all classes of people can project emotions. Narcissists project misery onto others. Laughter is contagious as well and anyone can project that. I do agree that because you’re an empath, you project calmness but I don’t think it comes from your Contagion element. I think everyone has the ability to project their emotions. I just think that different people will project different things.

          1. Contagious says:

            Leigh: I agree with you. As I said I have no idea, it might be my home but many people have said they find calmness with me at my home. Maybe it’s just getting away to another place! I don’t project emotions on others. I am not a silly superpower! . I don’t think empaths do this as HG said. Laughter is contagious as is yawning and other things any one can project. So if I was confusing, let me be clear. I agree with you. 100% I don’t project any emotion on anyone. I may love but love is just a beautiful feeling not a projection;) thanks

      2. Truthseeker6157 says:

        Hi Leigh,

        Yes, I thought the same about laughter. There is definitely a social element to it too, yawning would be another social element. One person yawns and you tend to find several others in the group will yawn too. Yes, you can feel an oppressive atmosphere in a room too particularly where narcs are concerned so by definition that feeling has to be transmitted into the room, so perhaps it’s more of a social element rather than a Contagion element.

        I think the experiment I mentioned demonstrates the power of connection. Empathic people actively seek to connect. Normal people would be connected to their friends and loved ones but empaths will try to make those connections with a wider group of people. There’s a degree of effort involved too I think. Perhaps it is a skill, one that we just happen to practice more often than the average person.

        If you can sense an atmosphere in a room I agree, that has to have been generated and projected outwards from somewhere.

        Perhaps we are overthinking a little. When HG states that Contagions can’t project emotion, maybe he means, we can’t control emotions of another person by pushing our own emotions onto them. A bit like the Jane pain scenario, we can’t change the emotion of another person, but we likely create an environment or atmosphere that is conducive to another person changing or softening their own emotions for themselves.

        This would fit Contagious and her welcoming home environment or you and I on here, where support and understanding helps us to lift our own mood / outlook for ourselves.


        1. Leigh says:

          Hi TS,
          Yes, that was my thinking too. Empaths create an environment that makes others feel at ease so its easer for them to change how they feel. Like when your empath friend had the calming affect on you. His calmness helped you feel at ease.

          As empaths we do have a positive affect on others (most of the time, lol).

  4. Leigh says:

    Mr. Tudor,
    I have a question regarding intuition. I understand intuition to be an instinctive reaction that uses our past experiences to pick up on cues from our environment and interactions. After some thought around it, I realize that anyone can be intuitive. Even animals are intuitive.

    My question is do you think that having natural empathy can heighten or increase our intuition? Is it based on intelligence as well? You’re highly intuitive and have no natural empathy, yet you’re highly intelligent. I know narcs, and other people in general, that are intuitive and others that have no intuition at all. I’m just wondering how come some have a spidey sense and some don’t? Is there some contributing factor that I’m missing?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Intuition can come from experience, intelligence and/or emotional empathy.

      1. Leigh says:

        Thank you for your reply, Mr. Tudor.

      2. Contagious says:

        What about biology. There are some studies on mirror neurons in the brain. other brain regions of the insula and anterior cingulate cortex that regulates cognitive and emotional empathy are said to differ with empaths. Could our brains just be different?

  5. Dani says:

    Mr. Tudor–

    1. Have you ever observed in person two people you’ve identified as majority and/or very strong contagions interacting with each other?
    2. Have you listened to two people you’ve identified as majority and/or very strong contagions describe interacting with each other independently? (Neither one was privy to what the other said about the interaction with the other to you.)

    Thank you so much for your time. Much appreciated.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      1. No.
      2. No.

      1. Dani says:

        Thank you, sir!

      2. Contagious says:

        So if I get it, contagions don’t chose each other as mates? Why? What about Richard and Elizabeth?

        1. Dani says:


          Do you mean mates as in friends or mates as in spouses?
          My questions weren’t really about that…it was more about how H.G. said that contagions cannot transmit feelings to each other.

          1. Contagious says:

            I took it as romantic. But there are majority contagians on-site in ant interacting on a blog interacting?

          2. Enthralled says:

            Not so sure about this. Only ever happened the one time, but I did with a guy who came to buy birds from me. I felt the energy, empathy he excluded so strongly – I find it hard to explain or put into words – it was a directed – it felt targeted – feeling rather than general one. He also picked up I felt it. Like comunicating without words – it was so unexpected and I will never forget the experience. Now I cannot say I transmit feelings – but it makes sense that two contagions may pick up the others emotions – heck we pick up everyones anyway 🙂

  6. Joa says:

    Contagion is my 33% school.

    Indeed, I need to take a break from people regularly. I am and have always been a loner, since I was a child. I like, and even love people, but I need my own space. Only my. Very rarely… I can invite you there, only when you are quiet…

    Narcissists are perfect. They do not burden. I feel light with them. I can take them with me. Until – until they unleash their evil.


    Another method, than rest, is “enchanting” the environment – intoxicating people with joy and self-satisfaction – in such an atmosphere it is easier for me to stay. I do it everyday 🙂
    For selfish reasons.

    Taking over sadness, pain and rage on myself, is one of my specialties (the last one, you know who uses it most often). I magnify it so much, accompanying the person all the time, until the person who felt it invalidated it themselves – bored with the topic or saving me (if they have empathy).

    This also happens with strangers, e.g. a friend calls me and says that her sister (whom I don’t know) is at the bottom of despair, that she is bad, that the whole family is worried about her, and she asks me to talk to this sister because only I can help her (let’s not exaggerate). And I do it. Although it tires me if it’s a stranger, because I have to get close to them (even though I didn’t choose them).

    Sometimes… it happens, that I stay with pain someone, when they are already jumping happily… If it’s someone close to me, I’m happy. If it was a stranger, I feel used.

    Now I make sure not to go too deep into someone’s emotions, I know how far I can go. Especially with people, who are strangers to me and whom I did not choose.

  7. Contagious says:

    HG: I think you nailed it. Best ever but I have questions. 1. What creates a contagion? 2. Why the rarest? 3. Why do greaters prey on them but not ultra who prefer supers? 5. Why not address their deans. You know this is key. 6. Why if we can sense a narc do we ignore it? 7. What is it about nature that heals us specifically? 7. As to auras have you seen them? I have not. Ghosts? Psychics? Never met a real one. 8. You probably will find this daft but what is it about animals that they are drawn to us and we are affected too? 9. If we are on a “soul level”or deep level what is that to you? Foe me it is GOD. But to you? Are you agnostic? 10. If a contagian retreats as the negativity and drama is too much to bear is that a supernova?

    1. Joa says:

      I don’t see any auras either.

      Animals. I feel their emotions and desires – but they do not invade me and do not appropriate me. I feel safe with them. And they with me too – even the most aggressive ones (dogs that are condemned to shelter, labeled as “too difficult to home” – I always choose such dogs, the poorest, alienated and the worst – I have “a good hand” for them, I can “open” them, although sometimes it takes even 2-3 years).

      1. Contagious says:

        Joa: me too! Dogs, but also horses, goats, cats, ducks, birds and squirrels and rabbits. They are calm with me nearby. I have wild birds that stay by me like pets. It’s weird. Neighbors have noticed. I had a neighbor from across the hill sit with me when they came. Some I feed so ok. Some I don’t. Birds I don’t So? I think it’s a calm. They don’t fear you. Plus I am outside a lot. I garden. Maybe it’s just familiarity.

        1. Joa says:

          Contagious, I love the natural world, so also all animals, plants.

          I believe, that the most important thing we can do for animals is not to interfere too much in their world.

          Yes, I’m one of those people, who talks to birds on the street. They are not afraid of me. Usually these are very funny texts, stories from the bird’s point of view. I do it on purpose – at first people look at me as if I’m a bit weird, but because these stories are insightful and funny, they move very quickly into the “world of birds”. I love making people feel this way.

          Recently, one of my co-workers, who was the most blocked man I’ve ever worked with (I’ve been “opening him” for over 2 years, phew) – finally stepped out “of himself” and started noticing. Standing “on a cigarette” behind our company, he shows me crested pigeons and sickle pigeons and jays, he is interested in ants and in mounds of ground bees, we laugh at the combined wingless blacksmiths and bend over paving slabs, he asks me about the names of plants (I showed him that ordinary neglected weed can be beautiful and very interesting) and checks information about them – and even started bringing me curiosities that I didn’t know about. I know that in a way, he wants to please me, but it doesn’t matter.

          A few weeks ago he told me: “You know, thanks to you, I started to notice that when we stand here, nothing seems to happen, and yet life is vibrant here and so many worlds intertwine.” I smiled at him and said nothing. I know that I succeeded and he will carry it on. He will pass it on to his children.

          Just open your eyes and everything we need is within reach.

          1. Contagious says:

            Joa: like you I know the names and abilities of plants. I have an app. I always thought it would be funny to go on a date and use it on a walk without him
            Noticing lol! But the most beautiful experience I saw involves crows who recognize your voice. I used to feed ducks who came to my house quacking ever morning : Luke Skywalker and Princess Lea as my son named them. It was 8-10 years they came in spring and lingered. One time the Forrest was filled with crows. God I wish I took a picture. All these crows , 70?, surrounding the crows. I sometimes feed the crows. Ranger used to caw too by me. One time I fed a group and they did this beautiful dance of one by one swooping down. It was like classical music. I have a black phoebe called rumbles who is my “pet”, he once flew and pecked my marine sons head while shaving in the upstairs bathroom. He lives in the garage. I don’t feed him. I have a barn sparrow who put a nest in my garage. They don’t get along. I don’t feed him either. But I have an instinct with animals since a kid. Love nature. I have a butterfly garden others admire. I have rose scarab beetles that will land in my hand. Love them. If something happened, I know which plants you can eat, what are poisonous and what can heal. No training just interest! Faith and nature nourishes me. I think it’s a contagion trait!

          2. Cont says:

            Joa: maybe you are like me? My father died at 64 from cancer since then he infrequently pops up. First, after his death I visited him at his “home “. It had lots of land and a home with a big dog and wood working tools and lots of sticky notes and one told me “to go home. “ Every detail of this house was him. I was upset at the message when I awoke. Over the years I have “ over heard him in conversations” in dreams and when he realizes I am hearing him he tells me “ to go home.”A few nights ago I had a dream where an unidentified called called. It was my Dad. He said “bomber!” My nickname, he was a vet. I said “ Oh my God Dad! I love you! I miss you! I love you! When are you coming home? Where are you ?” He laughed and said “ let’s get coffee first.” My alarm went off for a court hearing but it was so REAL. His voice, his laugh plus I get different physical symptoms over the dreams. This is the buzzing one. Maybe I touch a part of my brain where deep my memories reside and my imaginative brain makes it another place with odd messages? OR it’s like I feelI go to another place. It’s real. You?This makes more sense. My father never excluded me from him until he died. EVER. I know science would say wishful thinking but why I am in this weird percent of 1% lucid dreamers who lucid dream almost daily…?

    2. Enthralled says:

      Hi some great questions and I would also love to know 🙂

      I feel compelled by them to give some of my experiences here – they are only my experiences and not a reflection of a contagion – but it will be great to hear if mine corospond with any of yours…

      Love to hear what you think

      1) I have a strong suspicion that very slight autism plays a part here. Be interesting to hear what HG thinks.
      2) Good question and I too have no idea about this one – could be linked to personality type. Love to hear this from HG
      3) Maybe an Ultra is too smart to do so hahaha Well okay I would like to think this…I will say however, I may have become a person I did not recognise by the end of my toxic relationship – but you know what? in reflection and away from the influence of said person – I think the same could be said for my ex too…
      I am not sure if we would even appeal to religious people – I know my beliefs are not mainstream and I cannot be told what to think or change my deeply seated beliefs (not that I have many – I believe in everything and nothing for the most part – but I do not believe in god as an entity and such. I believe the Bible is about moral choices and …Has value in context) – which would go against my inner moral code – I also hate hypocrisy with a passion.
      5) I have thought about this aswell and maybe we do see through some. Some – do we get overwhelmed with the initial warm regard – which they believe is real? We feel it and would have our heads turned as much as anyone – hhaha we are not superhuman and have our own hangups and flaws 😉
      6) For me personally I feel stuff in my street – my home is not a cut off from intrusive emotions. No place where there are people is. Being out in a vast forest or nature miles from people helps me center myself and feel me and JUST me. Sometimes I dream of living in the middle of nowhere. Nature has a soothing vibe/ energy without emotion attached to it.
      7) A question for HG – but I do see auras. I would properly question and debate what is a Psychic – before discussing on if they exist 😉
      8) Not sure if being a contagion is what draws animals – or if it is calm energy in general? Experience leads me to believe that animals feel energy very much like a contagion. They say a cat can make its way home over distances due to feeling the earth’s magnetic fields. Birds migrate – Natal homing – to return to the place of birth to spawn new offspring.
      The rest is for HG 🙂

  8. K says:

    I’m a majority Contagion empath and had I know this I would have chosen another occupation. Do any of you have any idea how to handle and decompress from all of these excess emotions in a healthy way? All I know how to do is to stay away from people when I’m off and sleeping?

    1. Truthseeker6157 says:


      Have you tried exercise? When I work out it’s probably the only time my mind stops buzzing, I don’t worry about anything, I don’t think about anything, just the exercise that I’m completing. I do weight training and HIIT and would say the weight training is more effective in this respect.

      If it calms my mind, it might work also for you decompressing. Just a thought.


    2. Joa says:

      I like digging in the ground. The ground calms me down.

      Plants, weeding, care, digging with a shovel, raking, pruning trees and shrubs. Even simply lying on the ground or walking barefoot on it.

      And when I don’t have time or can’t, I leave the office for 10 minutes, grab some ground and look at trees, birds or the sky. It’s very cleansing. Just 10 minutes and I’m back to work with people with new energy and a calm smile.

      Ground, nature, sky.


      When I was little, I really wanted to be an archaeologist. Unfortunately, I went the other way.

    3. Joa says:

      I will add, that my mother often said, that when I was a baby and a small child – I was most calm and satisfied, when she put me in a stroller in the garden. I could lie like that for hours, sleeping or looking at the sky, even at the expense of meals, that I rejected.

      Indeed, my first, most distant memory is of the sky and the swaying branches of a tree.

      My sister didn’t want to be alone even for 5 minutes. Mom said, that my sister was “hanging on her” all the time.

      More than 40 years have passed and nothing has changed. I’m the same. My sister is the same (although instead of mom there are other people).


      Maybe this is the best method – find out what you wanted, when you were a small child.

      It never changes.

      1. Contagious says:

        Yup nature. Gardening. Even as a child. I will share a funny little narc story. When I was as 5, I would look for fairies and leprechauns, and my childhood friend Johnny said to put all my coins in the dirt and they would double. I woke up the next day excited to see a hole with all my coins gone. I was horrified. Trust was a new definition. Do you know that this Johnny later on went to jail for being a rapist as an adult? True. He raped his adoptive sister. He was obviously a little psychopath. Btw she is well. Married a nice man had 4 kids and later through her faith forgave him.

        1. Joa says:

          The story with the coins is really funny, I laughed 🙂
          Unfortunately, as a very lying child, I served similar stories to my sister quite often.

          The rest of the story isn’t funny anymore.

          I’m glad his foster sister got on well.

          Rape by a human, who is part of your family is the worst form of rape. It is much more. It is trampling on the roots and skeleton of the world.

          I hope that although she has forgiven him, she keeps him at a distance. Especially from your children.

    4. Contagious says:

      Nature. Nature. Nature.

    5. Contagious says:


  9. Asp Emp says:

    I considered some things after his Contagion Empath video. These empaths may have higher hypersensitivity (bearing in mind the effects may include some of, or, all of the 5 human senses) compared to other empaths? Maybe some Contagions have a sixth sense via their mind / emotions / intuition?

    I also thought of HG’s ‘The Three Strands of Emotional Empathy’, especially in relation to he ‘concern’ and ’emotional contagion’ of the 3 strands as per HG’s article.

    There is also the 5 levels of ‘The Empathy Cake’ which may be present in all empaths, maybe not. It may depend on the empath school / cadres, measurement of cognitive / emotional empathy, whether reduced emotional empathy etc.

    HG’s comment – my research about empaths before joining KTN revealed different types of “abilities” that the Contagion Empath may have.

    I was diagnosed with Aspergers years ago. I had based my hypersensitivities on that……. maybe that is where the co-morbidities come in, autism is genetic, not formed. Empaths are formed as per GPD from ancestors (and LOCE, if any).

    HG has confirmed that there is a link between autism and narcissism (genetically). Why not autism and empaths too?

    1. Dani says:

      Asp Emp,

      “HG has confirmed that there is a link between autism and narcissism (genetically). Why not autism and empaths too?” — Makes sense to me based on my current knowledge level. I think there are probably autistic people who would be within HG’s categories of narcissistic and normal too. Just depends on all the different factors involved in the creation of the different empaths, which I’m really looking forward to learning about as Mr. Tudor shares.

      1. Asp Emp says:

        Thank you, Dani, for taking my suggestion into consideration (empaths / autism). Yes, I too, look forward to hearing more about what HG’s future work on this 🙂

  10. Contagious says:

    As to being a standard and majority contagion this was excellent understanding. I will give an example a Swedish woman who is my neighbor but a mere acquaintance stopped me one day to say she had bad news to share. My immediate response was she is on her the board of my HOA so I have a fine. Probably my dogs. She then told me her son had died. Strangers telling me their problems is normal. But I started sobbing as the stoic Swede looked into my eyes. She is an athlete and a bright retired engineer. I grabbed her and held her. She caved into my arms. I knew it was a suicide. She has not said the cause of death to this day. She does not need to. I know 100%. I told her right then and there “it’s not your fault” three times and this woman clung to me. After I rushed home sped to the store bought expensive flowers and got the cast of frost stuffed animals as swedish and put them in her garage with Pedra’s books on loss for her flight saying: you are not alone. Three cards held by each Frost member. Hugs! I have consistently left her gifts. With hugs. She came back from Sweden told me she touched her boys hair. We spoke but I didn’t venture past how are you. I knew to speak would be too much so we spoke for hours on other things. I cried later in my home. I felt the heavy cloak of grief. . I don’t cry out of physical pain. I have a high tolerance and have recently spilled hot oil from cooking on my leg and my foot that caused my loved one and others horror. I have a plastic surgeon friend who left 26 messages. I said I am fine. I am. I will continue on to be there for her. I don’t really know her at all but I know she feels my presence and love. She said so in asking on the plane if she could keep the books and later all the gifts and seeks me for pain relief. What should I do she asked? I suggested rock climbing and sent her local groups. She is an athlete by nature, I know for to heal she must be active. I know this. I also know she will never heal and a hole will remain but she will have to learn how to live with this hole.. I sense she will as many and will do so and have. Including me. Her pain however HG reminds me to feel grateful for my own children. Something you didn’t add. It’s selfish in a way and egotistical to think helping others is a virtue. NO. We are just lucky and it is a duty to do so. I don’t see auras but I do have daily almost lucid dreams that call to me. It is draining yet but a blessing. I feel good selfishly taking on another’s pain or relieving them from it it in any small way. It compels me and gives me the most joy to serve others. I honestly don’t know why greaters would be attracted. I do somewhat get why gurus would as I once jokingly went to a Scientology center and took their test. They have sent me mail for years. The guy who administered the test was an insecure control freak. I had a similar experience by going to a free “ local council” event with Wiccan’s. I liked many there but the head of it called me a witch. No idea why and told me my lucid dreams were “common and out of control” and I needed her help. And my money. No thanks. I sensed another control freak. I am uncontrollable I have been told all my life. I sm a free spirit. The worse psychopath narc I met was a man representing a Mexican mob. I had days of depositions with this man repressing a public works contractor who challenged a bid rigging scheme in LA. The man stated and stared at me. Oddly I felt desire from his state but in a way I couldn’t wait to get home and shower. I challenged him because he was finding my clients employees on vacation and subtlety threatening them. I reported misconduct to the courts without hesitation. I found my home one day filled with Mexican beers and cigarettes and a dead rat in the garage. He called me and whispered I should not have done what I did. We settled the case but although gorgeous, athletic and rich… I never want to cross paths with him again. Right on HG but with a lingering question WHYwould narcs want a majority contagion? We know who you are or a darkness that makes us uncertain or recoil if a psychopath. We get ensnared by words and a call to help as many empaths do overlooking our instincts often.I have. You know something is wrong but you can get ensnared by the words or false actions… but my dreams warned me. It does not last. You wake up. Conscious and’s unconsciousness align. You run. I had to take on my multimillionaire Antisocial not sure if narc, feel just antisocial, and win in a multi year 6 digit fight over custody. I got 80%, and his top expensive family lawyer said he had never met anyone like me. My ex hates me to this day, I ran into him at a store last week. And there was no avoiding him. I smiled said hello and he scowled fiercely. He texted my daughter saying I got my lips done. Nope. Just age I gu as with high cheekbones? Our daughter was as raised well and flourishes.I rarely criticized her dad and allows told her that her relationship was unique and special and outside my own with him. He takes credit for her every success and favors her. I don’t care. Her continued happiness matters only. I think my ex wanted me for my status and appearance not because I was a contagion. To give him legitimacy. So I still don’t get why greaters or gyros would want us. HG explain more? Pretty please?

    1. annaamel says:

      Contagious, you say you are ‘standard and majority contagion.’ I don’t understand what you mean. Which of standard or contagion is your majority school?

      1. Contagious says:

        Carrier and contagion. But small bits of Martyr , super and geyser, it’s very small in percents like 1% so I think these little categories come up with circumstance. I also think that my carrier is obvious as an attorney but contagion is the essence.

        1. annaamel says:

          Thank you for those details, Contagion. Do you know the percentage of contagion?

          1. Contagious says:

            Hi Anna: I got it wrong. It’s been so long. Majority strong contagion. And strong cadre martyr. I have standard too, small minority super too and smaller cadres geyser and carrier. I can’t find the graph but I listened again. Thank you for asking. I seem to be very very strong in both contagian and martyr. I knew the contagian but confused Marty with carrier which is odd. But there it is! Thanks for having me review! I don’t know much about martyr but HG said “ doormat” lol I knew contagian would be the strongest and I have high empathy low narcissism but lol pride and argumentative are my traits. As an attorney that makes sense. I knew contagian – it’s over 50% but I don’t have access to the graph but I recall that … I consulted HG before the test asking about my dreams and he felt I was a contagian. Didn’t know what that meant either then but there’s lots on that. I am curious now on my cadre. I thought it was majority carrier but it’s not.

          2. Contagious says:

            Oh listened again. Significant carrier that’s why I confused it I think.

          3. annaamel says:

            ‘Hi Anna: I got it wrong. It’s been so long. Majority strong contagion. And strong cadre martyr. I have standard too, small minority super too and smaller cadres geyser and carrier. I can’t find the graph but I listened again.’

            Thank-you, Contagion. There’s a few readers here with strong or significant martyr, I believe.

            I was trying to work out what percentages you might have based on your descriptions of strong and strong majority. I had strong contagion with 40% and had it been 41 i believe it would’ve been strong minority. So strong is likely 31-40%. Very significant maybe 21-30 and significant, 11-20. Under that is insignificant. I am not sure what strong majority is. I can’t recall if there is significant and strong on the majority side, but it would make sense if there was.

            If martyr is strong for you that’d keep it at or under 40%, leaving ~60% for the other cadres, which would include your carrier and geyser. If carrier is significant then that’d make it 20% or less so geyser would have to be about 40%. Was there another cadre in there at all? Saviour or magnet? Or did you possibly mean strong majority martyr?

            As for schools, if it’s over 50% Contagion, this would leave you less than 50 for super and standard so they might be 25 and 25 or there could be a bit more standard and less super, given you said it was a small minority.

            Thanks again for finding that information because I asked it of you. I do appreciate it.

  11. Asp Emp says:

    HG, the work you put in this video series will answer a lot of questions. Part of your aim is also to provide this information so that those working in the mental / emotional (and physical) health fields can access to understand more about victims (including narcissists), the behaviours, the way of thinking / feeling and there are those that struggle with communicating as such. Professionals who diagnose, issue ‘labels’ should use this information and cross-reference where appropriate ie in cases of co-morbidity. Thank you for clarifying further on the empath make-ups 🙂 xxx

    1. Contagious says:

      HG works should be in every psychology class curriculum.

  12. Truthseeker6157 says:

    The one we were waiting for! This clears quite a lot up I think.
    Things I learned.
    Contagion is not intuition. Intuition is a separate skill.
    Aura reading sounds pretty cool. Something I would have been sceptical about but it must be amazing to do that. I’m envious haha!
    I definitely don’t magnify, but magnification appeared on the ‘What the Contagion empath does’ thread. That’s another pleasant skill to have.
    I definitely couldn’t point to each person in a supermarket aisle and tell you what they were feeling. I couldn’t do that in a crowd either but I still don’t like crowds. It feels like a pressing in, too much information from too many sources but it’s a single glut of pressure for me. I can’t detail it out in terms of emotion like a full Contagion could.
    I don’t lift away sadness. I feel the sadness of another, I can make them feel better, and their sadness will hang around me for a few days after, but I don’t lift it off someone, absorb it and deal with it for them. That’s a real skill right there.

    There was one thing that confused me in the video. Contagions can’t project how they are feeling onto another person. I would have disagreed with that. When my friend was at his worst post escape, he suffered with anxiety and sadness more than anything else. I felt it and purposely sent out a feeling of calm, of confidence. I moved slower, my tone was softer, I was gentler than usual. Even on the days where we weren’t able to talk, he would gravitate to me, wanted to be close and reported later that during those anxious days I made him feel calmer, that he could get through the day.

    Similarly when I was anxious a few weeks ago, he knew the problem and he knew when I was on a more anxious day. He didn’t need to say anything at all, nor I, but he felt like an anchor. He felt calm. My emotions were scattered all over the place but his projected calm slowed everything down. I was better able to deal with the anxiety through being around him.

    Two empaths both significant Contagion. That might explain it in part. Other friends feel better after being around me when sad or confused though too. Not just him. So I struggle a bit with the idea that we can’t project emotion, or send it out to try to heal.

    That said, if someone is sad and I am happy, I can’t make them feel happy. I can’t give them my happiness, sadness or anything else. Here I agree with the statement that I can’t project my feelings onto someone else.

    Perhaps in the first instance I’m creating a mood rather than sending out what actually feel myself. To be fair, I would rarely feel calm personally. I can create and send out a sense of calm though. A mood. Maybe the first is a mood rather than how I’m actually feeling myself.

    I understand now why I’m not majority Contagion. I agree full Contagions are empaths in the truest sense, external sensing rather than internal categorising.

    I concede, haha! My schools are in the correct order as per the EDC. I’ll go off and work on my mystery for a bit.

    1. Leigh says:

      I thought the same thing about intuition. I really thought my spidey sense and/or guardian angel was born from my Contagion piece.

      I’m wondering if the projection of feelings is based on our overall natural empathy. You’ve pulled me off the ledge on more than one occasion. By the way, thank you for that. You have a calming affect on me. You radiate warmth. I believe that’s your natural empathy for me. On the flip side, I can see when you’ve turned off that empathy. Like with your mom or love of your life guy. I would imagine, you no longer radiate warmth. I think, and this is just my guess, that once your natural empathy for someone is gone, you no longer have a calming affect or radiate warmth.

      I’m curious where that calming affect comes from. I don’t have that. I don’t calm people down, lol. I rile them up, lol. I have a dear friend who has that quality too. Its a very nice quality to have.

      1. Contagious says:

        Leigh I think you sense someone needs warmth and give it. A beautiful gesture may I add!

        1. Leigh says:

          That was very kind of you to say. Thank you for that.

          1. Contagious says:

            Of course dear Leigh we are Contagion! There is this sense I feel that only supers can be the warriors against narcs. BUT we sense immediately something is wrong but we discount it to help, heal or change. We would do better to RUN!

          2. Leigh says:

            Ain’t that the truth! Yes,we would do better to run! Run far, far away!

      2. Truthseeker6157 says:

        Hi Leigh,

        I love your spidey sense. Haha! I don’t think the Contagion video negates it in any way. I don’t think the video negates intuition in any way either. I think it’s more that for the way that HG defines the empath schools, Contagion relates to feeling the emotion of others. That’s the core concept of Contagion and, there’s a sliding scale of how wide this feeling goes, how detailed, and what can be done with it depending on majority or minority strength.

        It’s likely that intuition will correlate with this additional feeling capability, it might not. I still think it’s interesting for empaths to discuss other aspects of what they experience or relate to ( like intuition) because there might be other correlations between us, but those discussions could take place underneath any video about empathic schools not just Contagion.

        I’m glad I have helped you to feel calmer. I do genuinely put a lot of thought into my comments to people and I do genuinely want to help where I can, so it’s lovely to know that I have helped you when you’ve had a tougher time. I’m happy to talk you down off that ledge any time!

        Did you ever watch Twilight? Embarrassing fact, I did haha! When I’d just had my second baby and was stuck at home. There’s a character called Jane. She can project pain. She just looks intently at someone and says, “Pain”. I thought of that when I heard the part of Contagions not being able to project their feelings onto someone else. We can’t actually make anyone feel anything because we don’t have agency over them. We can influence emotion, we can use words, gestures, tone, body language, we can listen, touch, and so on, but thinking about it, the agency for the emotion rests with the person experiencing it. So whilst consciously I might try to project a feeling of calm or support etc, I can only ever influence I can’t actually implant a feeling of calm as Jane did with her pain.

        I think that’s perhaps what HG means and also perhaps where some of my confusion lies. I think. Haha!

        You’re right, I do have a flip side, my mum is a good example of that in action. There’s no pleasure in it for me though, I don’t consciously not show warmth and get a kick out of it. I just don’t feel anything for her. More positively, my mum does have a wicked sense of humour, so I can still enjoy that aspect of her. Fair enough I give fuel when I laugh, I’ll give some fuel when I visit but I don’t actually care about that either! I’m not horrible, I go through the motions and her responses are her responses, irrelevant to me one way or the other. That’s very much how it feels to me on the flip side, irrelevant.

        I don’t know where a calming effect comes from in myself. I think when I was struggling with anxiety and my friend’s presence helped calm me, there were a few things I could point to that played a part. He gets it. He knew how I was feeling and accepted it. I knew my anxiety was irrational. So did he, but he didn’t try to explain or brush it away, he just stayed around me. He didn’t say much but his general demeanour was very much “I’m here if needed.” He wasn’t put off, didn’t make his excuses and look busy ( haha) he just planted himself by me and held the line whilst I battled the emotions internally. I still maintain he exuded and sent out calm. I know I felt that, like a steady rhythmic heartbeat that I could pace myself by. I won’t stand down from that fact, I felt calmer, he was responsible, but did he implant his own calm into my head? No. He didn’t. Any easing of anxiety happened within me.

        HG does mention that by feeling the emotion the contagion empath is then in a position to use her empathic nature to support. Agree. That might also be exactly what my friend was doing. Perhaps that’s what I do too and what you do. ☺️


        1. Leigh says:

          LOL! I love my spidey sense too! I have a very small sliver of Contagion. I’ve only felt the emotions of somebody else a couple of times in my life. I do remember it was visceral though. I think listening to this video helped to understand why its only a sliver because under normal circumstances, I don’t feel the emotions of others. I can understand them but I don’t feel them. Before the video, I did assume my spidey sense intuition was born from my Contagion piece. But now I’m thinking its born from my natural empathy and only heightened from my Contagion piece. My spidey sense is always on. Its always running. I can often see the bullshit. The problem is because of my addiction, I ignore it when I see it. But that’s a whole other issue, lol.

          I didn’t mean to imply that you took pleasure in it. I apologize if I did. I actual feel the same about my mother. There’s no pleasure in it but sadness over it either. My empathy for her is gone. There’s only indifference now. There’s no good or bad. There’s just nothing.

          I didn’t watch Twilight but I had a guilty pleasure too. I loved Charmed. They were badass. Ooof! Jane sounds badass too!

          How the calming affect works on me is that it doesn’t change what I’m feeling but it clears the fog. Then, when I become aware, it helps me to change what I’m feeling. Its like you said, you start to realize that the thoughts are a little irrational. But your friend didn’t outright say that you were being irritational. Instead his calming presence helped you see it. Often for me also, someone will say something logical and it will snap it out of it too.

          I’m glad you have an empathic friend to lean on when you’re having troubling moments. Its nice to have someone in real life who understands these things and is there for you.

          1. Truthseeker6157 says:

            Hi Leigh,

            Your guilty pleasure is safe with me haha! No, you didn’t imply that I took pleasure in the flip side, I think perhaps people might somehow think that I do. Some people might take pleasure in it and I wouldn’t have a problem with that if they did. I get how some empaths might want revenge etc. For me it isn’t really like that. That’s not to say that I won’t pull stunts from time to time. I’m not without a bit of mischief. I look bored during the monologues, to be fair I am bored during the monologues but I also know the effect that looking bored has on the narcissist. Doesn’t stop the damn monologues though haha!

            Yes it is nice hanging out with another empath. I actually don’t know many at all. Looking back, I don’t think I’ve had empaths in my life at any point really, other than my dad, probably my grandma. Friends wise no. Normals and a fair few narcs I think. I know that you also have recently formed a friendship with an empath. It’s markedly different isn’t it? Noticeably so. I’ve just not encountered empaths as friends before, so this is a whole new experience for me!

            I do wonder where intuition comes from too. It could be natural empathy, it might also relate to the way we take in information subconsciously then link those pieces together to draw a conclusion. Empaths might be prone to heightened intuition because many are ACONS and it would be useful to know in advance what was coming next. Heightened awareness of what was going on around us perhaps. Being more cynical, it might also be a game of chance where we remember all of the times we were right and forget all of the times we were wrong. I could see how that might be the case but I don’t believe that’s the case haha!


          2. Leigh says:

            Hi TS,
            I was listening to Mr. Tudor’s interview with Narc Con and he commented about using intuition as well. He called a spidey sense too. That made me chuckle in delight, lol. Anyway, it got me thinking, if Mr. Tudor has intuition, it’s clearly not from empathy. Then I thought about what you said about it coming from being an ACON. It also got me thinking about narcs and them using intuition as well. My former best friend using intuition. She’s a psychologist and has been trained to read people. I also know other narcs that pick up on things. My mother is good at it, so was workplace narc. My husband thinks he has intuition, it’s usually wrong though. I don’t know. Just some thoughts I had that I wanted to share.

            Yes, I have an empath friend as well and yes it’s markedly different. There’s conversation without eggshells. Its just easy, relaxed and enjoyable. Having this friendship makes it much easier to spot the difference now.

          3. Leigh says:

            Hey TS,
            I was having a conversation with my empath friend recently about respect. It reminded me of this conversation. Yes, friendships with empaths and non narcs in general are very different. I think that difference is respect. There’s mutual respect for one another. You don’t get that with a narcissist.

          4. Truthseeker6157 says:

            Hi Leigh,

            So sorry, notifications for this thread seem to have disappeared.

            I thought about you too when I heard spidey sense in the interview! Haha! I hadn’t thought about narcs having intuition before. I don’t see what would prevent them from having intuition, but hadn’t thought of that. Interesting you think your mother shows it. Mine, definitely not. In fact, she is often so left behind in conversations I have with my dad I wonder how much of those conversations are unconsciously Contagion based. My dad is obviously Contagion, stronger than me, but put us together and those half sentences completely throw my mum. A half line of a joke and the other is already laughing whilst my mum looks blank and says, “What? What are you laughing at?” Of all the things my mum does, that’s probably the one area where I could sympathise with her. That can’t have been easy for her to watch and it happens often.

            Online narc I would say was very ‘in tune’ with me. When we met, we moved as one, he was very very aware of which way my thoughts would go. He had a lot of information though and he would have been mirroring, so in terms of that constituting intuition I’m not sure. It would likely feel intuitive, aided and abetted by ET, but it might also have been his narcissism accessing that arsenal of information I had handed over during months and months of conversation.

            The other two romantic narcs, I would say no. No visible intuition but that’s not to say they didn’t have it, just that I didn’t witness it.

            Speaking of online narc. When we met, he said that he had seen me arriving in the hotel car park ( true, I fact checked) that I had looked right at him as he was sitting in his car and had “looked through” him. As punishment he allowed time for me to get ready, then claimed that I had ignored a call from him ( no missed calls or texts) so he was now in his car driving back home. I remember my heart skipping a beat, but when I visualised him, I saw him seated at a table in the corner of a bar. The bar was dark and seemingly empty. So I asked him where he was exactly. He gave a place name that would check out for length of time he had been driving. So I then asked him to photograph the clock in his car and send it. A photo of a digital clock arrived. It was 40 mins out in terms of time. Dumbass had just got an internet pic. Haha!

            So I told him no cigar and to tell me which bar he was in and where it was in relation to the hotel. I walked in, there he was, seated at the table, in the corner. The bar was dark, and empty. Intuition worked to my advantage there!

            I think you are right in terms of respect. At the time I took that episode as an awkward joke. Looking back though, no respect.


          5. Leigh says:

            Wordpress is terrible! I get it!

            Its soooo creepy when my mother does it. I don’t like that she can get in my head like that. She did it to me recently. By the way, I haven’t seen her since February of 2020 so she’s not reading my body language or my facial expressions. I sent her something for Mother’s Day. She did give my life so I’m grateful for that. I didn’t sign my husband’s name. She’s not his mother. She calls to thank me and says, “I thought you might be getting a divorce since you didn’t sign his name.” How the heck did she know that’s what’s going through my head??? I responded with, “I didn’t sign his name because you’re not his mother.” I wasn’t going to confirm she was right because it unnerves me when she does that.

            Its admirable that you feel sympathy for your mother in those situations. You had a connection to your father that you didn’t have with your mother. I can understand why you would sympathize with her.

            I can’t picture things without some kind of prompt or help. Its very bizarre. So with my intuition, I don’t visualize. I guess its kind of like a voice. Its definitely a feeling. No pictures in my head though. In the scenario you described, my intuition would’ve just told me something wasn’t right. I would’ve thought he was playing some sort of game and it would’ve irritated me. Workplace narc did similar things. I would agree there was no respect in that scenario.

            When I visualize the other bloggers, I see their avatar. It really throws me off when they change it all the time, lol. With those, I just see their name. So I’ll see Sweet P or Sweetest Perfection. Same for LET. I see her as LET or lickemtomorrow. Its only if its prompted that I try to form a picture in my mind. I remember when I tried to form a picture of you, I pictured Emily Blunt. So sometimes when you mention your empath friend, I see John Krasinski. LOL! With Mr. Tudor, its either his legs or Daniel Craig or Daniel Craig wearing the tangerine shorts.

          6. Truthseeker6157 says:

            Hey Leigh,

            I might be wrong, but I think your mum had a lucky guess there. She might also be explaining away your limited visits to herself with “ Maybe there’s something going on, maybe Leigh is having marital problems.” Put both together and you get her divorce question. Your mother is never going to think that she is the reason for your limited visits, she would never consider her own behaviour might be at fault.

            That said, they do observe. My mum observes too and will comment on subtle changes (usually in my appearance), it’s all fodder for manipulation when all is said and done. So if there is intuition, it will be used to further their own aims I think, rather than as a self protective measure as mine often seems to be.

            It’s interesting that you don’t visualise but hear or feel the idea. Maybe you are more auditory than visual? Everything presents as a picture to me. I do think it’s a case of background calculations that form into a suggestion which is then presented to me as a picture, you as a thought or a statement.

            If I think about visualising the online narc in the pub, then ask why that conclusion might have been drawn and then presented, I could logically find the information that factored in.

            I had driven 5 hours to the location. He had driven 2. So if he was to stand me up, it would be a safe assumption I would be majorly pissed off and it would be game over. He was unlikely to risk that at that point.
            We met in York. Old buildings, pubs with low ceilings that would tend to be dark.
            The first time we met, he had chosen a table in the corner, assume he selects similar for the second meeting.
            It was still very early evening, bars wouldn’t yet be busy.
            He did see me park my car. I was trying to ensure it was within range of the security camera (haha!) He commented on that. So would he really just leave and drive 2 hours back straight away? Unlikely.

            Conclusion. Narc not in the car driving home, but is seated in a dark pub, in the corner, and the pub is empty. So that’s the image that’s generated.

            I can see the calculations, I just didn’t consciously think about them. I think that’s pretty much how intuition works, at least for me.

            Haha! I can’t comment about Emily Blunt other than to say, there are Emily elements!

            I visualise on the blog too. I imagine I’m drawing elements of personality and mixing them with similar elements within people I know, forming a picture that way. HG didn’t have a picture. He was swirling black and gold pieces of foil for ages. Gold for golden period, black for devaluation, swirling showing potential for both?

            Recently though, through having a few consultations closer together, HG now does have his own picture. I see why he says Daniel Craig, but to me HG is finer featured. Not as broad / flat in the face. More prominent cheek bones, fuller mouth but not girly full.
            Very similar eye colour but slightly rounder eyes, very similar nose size and shape but not as broad. Not someone you would necessarily notice immediately in a room full of people, but someone you would very much notice once in conversation.

            HG showed up in a dream I had recently and I’m pretty sure I’m not far off in terms of what I’ve put together.
            One thing’s for sure. I won’t ever be in a position to be proved wrong! 😎

            I won’t talk about his hidden birthmark. (Ooh shaky ground, shaky ground haha! )


          7. Leigh says:

            I know my mother has no way of actually knowing that I want to get a divorce. I believe she says things for shock value so I’ll react. She’s been doing things like that my whole life. My reactions are either, “Why would you say that or how did you know that?” Its creepy.

            No, she most certainly does not blame herself for me not visiting. She thinks she was a wonderful mother. She’s bat shit crazy! That’s an interesting thought to consider that she would think that me having marital issues is why I don’t come visit. I hadn’t thought of that. Its not the first time she’s mentioned divorce to me. His birthday is in the beginning of the year and she always calls me for his birthday. She said to me, “Make sure you get him something from me, unless you’re getting a divorce.” I think I ignored that comment then too. Maybe that’s how she figures it out??? Normally, I’m defensive when she says something that’s shocking. This is what I mean. I don’t like that she knows how I operate.

            My mother comments on my appearance as well, That sends me to the moon. She likes to tell me that I have a bit of “secretary bulge” going on. I’m Hispanic on my father’s side so my bottom is a little wide. Its not terrible. But she likes to point it out.

            Your explanation of how you concluded that the online narc was in a dark pub, really got me thinking. Part of our intuition must be because we have deductive reasoning skills. You deduced from the situation where he logically would be. My intuition works similar to you. I don’t consciously think about it. Its why I called it a spidey sense. Not to sound too cocky but I just know. But I wonder, maybe because of the deductive reasoning skills, we can come to the conclusion quicker.

            The way you described Mr. Tudor, I can’t do. Its very difficult for me to give people a face. I have to see a picture or it has to be a face that I know. I can’t drill down to the details like you did. Even my children, I can’t picture them older. I can only visualize them as younger or how they look now.

            Decorating stresses me out too. I know what colors I like and how they work together, so that piece is good. I can’t imagine what a room will look like though. I can’t see the finished product. Normally, I just have to add things and if it doesn’t work, I remove it. Maybe I am more auditory then visual.

            HA! Do tell about that hidden birthmark!

          8. Truthseeker6157 says:

            Hey Leigh,

            It is funny how they feel entitled to pass comment on appearance. My mum does it in the opposite direction. She’ll compliment but only when I look how she prefers me to look. She’ll openly gaze. People that didn’t know the situation might say she looks proud of me. They might think me odd for dismissing her, but it isn’t pride for me being me. Not our kind of pride we might have for our kids. It isn’t pride at all really, it’s ownership.

            So I rarely get negative comments, certainly not since I moved out of home, but I am appraised nevertheless. She copies me like crazy too, that irritates me to death haha! I feel that a lot around my mum, irritation. I’m good at hiding it though. The picture of serenity, that’s me haha!

            It would never enter my mum’s head that the reason I don’t visit as often as I should is down to her. It bothers me sometimes that I’m missing out on time with my dad. He won’t be around forever, but realistically I spend as much time there as I can, given that my mum is always with him. That’s what made me think about your mum’s comment about a divorce. When you look at their thinking, you can be sure that it centres around them, never us.

            Deductive reasoning would make sense I think. For those of us who grew up with narcs, they don’t actually say clearly what they mean, so I think it’s possible that we learned to look for other signs, signs behind the words, signs that could better be relied on. Do something often enough and you autopilot, so won’t register necessarily that you are compiling information in the background. Narcs themselves would have had to do similar as children in LOCE. So maybe there is a form of intuition there too, just used for a different purpose.

            Haha! I knew you would bite on the birth mark!😂😂

            I confess I have no idea if there is a birth mark or not. In my dream HG remained elegantly attired throughout our interaction. Ever the respectful empath even when I’m dreaming haha! Honestly, I think the consultations just solidified HG in my mind. Not simply a disembodied voice on a YouTube video. So I’ve likely pulled together snippets from his books, articles, blog comments and compiled a picture. He was very clear though, so, you never know, I might just have him right!


          9. Leigh says:

            Hey TS,
            My mother has looked at me with that same “proud” look. I agree. Its ownership and unnerving. I know what you mean about people thinking its odd that we may dismiss our mothers. Sometimes I struggle with that too. Do I really want to go down that road of explaining why my mother isn’t a good mother? Sometimes if I’m backed in a corner, I will. I prefer not to though. I think for the most part I’m painted white but I tend to challenge her so I get corrective devaluations a lot. Sometimes I can’t hold my tongue, lol.

            The mixed messages we received as a child definitely forced us to figure out things on our own. I agree that we learned to look for other signs, not just what was said. Its difficult to pull the wool over my eyes and even if you do, I don’t need my eyes anyway, lol. It intrigues me how I know that though. Am I just being cocky? I don’t think so because more often I’m right then wrong.

            Its so nice that you have a deep connection with your dad. I’m sorry you don’t get to spend more alone time with him though.

          10. Truthseeker6157 says:

            Hi Leigh,

            I have always tended to keep my social life very separate from my mum. My wedding day was probably toughest and when we lived in the US my mum saw more because she was with me in my home for longer periods.

            It sounds awful but I rarely explain myself to anyone at all. I’m very private, so if someone noticed a coolness directed towards my mum I wouldn’t explain it. I wouldn’t lie, I’d just redirect.

            I think sometimes we struggle saying we are good at something. Your comment didn’t sound cocky to me at all. I think if you are able to prove instances where your intuition has been correct then there has to be truth to it. I don’t see it any differently to being great at cooking. We should be comfortable saying, “Yeah, I’m a great cook.” Same thing here really.

            I tend to point out all the things I’m not good at then I can surprise people haha! “Poker? Awful. Never saw a hand I didn’t like.” 😏


          11. Leigh says:

            Hi TS,
            I agree. I try to keep my social life very separate from my mother. I rarely talk about either one of my parents with my friends. Sometimes its just an innocuous question, like, how’s your mom. Just that question alone sends me into a tizzy. I’ll often say, she’s good or she’s fine and change the subject. Most people I deal with know she’s in a nursing home but they don’t know the level of her toxicity or that she was abusive sometimes they ask how she’s doing. For me, its easier than explaining the abuse.

            I don’t think it sounds awful that you rarely explain yourself to anyone. I don’t like to explain myself to anyone about anything either. When someone pays my bills, that’s when they can have an explanation. Even at work I have quite a bit of autonomy. I do explain myself there though. That’s because I want to build trust though I want my boss to know I’m trustworthy. In that respect, explaining my actions serves a purpose. Under normal circumstances, I don’t like explaining my actions either.

            Thank you. Yes, you’re right. I often do struggle with saying I’m good at something. That shouldn’t be the case. I should be comfortable with saying it. I wonder if its messages from my parents that I wasn’t good enough. I don’t remember a lot of my childhood. I do think I was on a pedestal with both my mom and my dad but there must’ve been corrective devaluations too. Maybe that’s part of why we struggle with saying were good at something.

            Ha, ha, ha! Your jokes are getting cornier! It still made me laugh though!

          12. Truthseeker6157 says:

            Hi Leigh,

            Yes, we should be comfortable stating what we are good at. Funnily enough, I’m good at interviews (see what I did there) but that’s mostly to do with the fact that in interviews I’m not really me. I am the slick version of me, polished, prepared and prepped for the questions. In a way I’m acting, I stay truthful but I’m portraying confidence rather than being confident. That’s half the battle really, portray often enough and you start to see that confidence improve.

            I once worked for a guy who was an amazing speaker. Brilliant on stage at a conference, very different from his real life persona which was actually quite surly, quite superior ( probably another narc haha!) I asked him if he ever got nervous when presenting. He said no, then conspiratorially he told me that he imagines himself as someone else when on stage. Essentially he acted his way through it. A useful piece of advice, narc or no narc.

            I wonder if your mother was similar to mine in her manipulations. I tend to say my mum manipulated in the opposite direction. Less putting down, more selective praise. So on the face of it, it doesn’t look like typical narc devaluing behaviour. I receive ‘ thoughtful’ gifts, never had a birthday ruined. My mum ruined her own birthdays, looks just a teeny bit disappointed at her own gifts etc. In terms of damaged confidence due to put downs I don’t recall that, I don’t recall much criticism. What she did though was brag about me. She bragged about my hobbies, my sports but mostly she bragged about my academic performance and what I was going to do career wise, at uni etc. It felt like nails down a chalk board to me. I hated it, I wanted the ground to open and swallow me whole. So for me, stating what I’m good at I associate with bragging behaviour. “I’m good at something or I’m bad at something, find out yourself if you’re interested.” That’s more my approach now but there are times when it would be easier and quite normal just to state that I’m good at something.

            Maybe you saw similar behaviours and had a similar response?


          13. Leigh says:

            Hey TS,
            You really got me thinking on this one. I think there are a couple of reasons why I don’t like to to say if I’m good at something.

            First, I wonder if its true. My mother put me on a pedestal and bragged about me all the time. She would call me her little engineer. Even as a child I liked to get at the root of things. I often would take things apart. That’s why she called me her little engineer. I think the bragging felt ostentatious even back then. It didn’t feel genuine or authentic. So now I’m left wondering, am I as good as she said?

            Second, she would often triangulate my younger brother with me. “Leigh can do it. I don’t have to explain to Leigh. I don’t have to ask Leigh twice.” He was always in my shadow. I didn’t like that he was made to feel interior. That feeling is still with me and I don’t like to make others feel inferior because of that.

            Lastly, my father haf some influence as well. There were consequences when things weren’t done the “correct” way. We often were “disciplined” if we did something wrong in his eyes. So now I wonder, am I doing it the correct way. In the past, even when I thought it was correct, there were consequences.

            As for interviewing, even though its part of my profession and I’m an effective interviewer, I’m terrible as an interviewee. As an interviewer, I’m good at reading people, so I often think, when I’m the interviewee, maybe they’re good at reading me too. For all the reasons above, I often second guess & wonder if I’m even qualified for the job, even if I am qualified.

            I think there’s some ET at play here. Logically, if we’re good at something, why do we have trouble saying it?

          14. Truthseeker6157 says:

            Hi Leigh,

            I think our experience here is similar, except I had balance from an empathic father. Empathic father worked away a lot though, so that stabilising influence wasn’t there as often as it might otherwise have been.

            I can understand you feeling bad for your brother, I imagine you would have cringed in those circumstances. I think that over praising approach is similar in effect to the ‘everyone gets a trophy’ mentality in kids sports. How do kids know how good they are? Where is the motivation to train or practice when either way you get a trophy?

            Too much praise and we doubt the authenticity of that praise so it becomes meaningless. We also begin to doubt if we are good at anything at all. As an interviewee it sounds like you feel a bit like an impostor, that you aren’t worthy of the role and sooner or later will be found out. I don’t think I have that exactly, but, I would certainly prefer to lower expectations rather than have them too high! Comes from the same place. Evaluation, I hate to be evaluated. It shows with me as feeling riled by it rather than by being nervous about it. Exams though, different matter entirely, there I am incredibly nervous.

            I don’t think our discomfort with stating our strengths is ET necessarily, more, an adaptation to behaviour based on upbringing. Other adaptations might be adults who keep eating even when they are full because as kids they had to sit at the table until they cleared their plates. People have all kinds of quirks thanks to their parents and I think that’s ok as long as that quirk isn’t damaging. As long as it doesn’t stand in your way or prevent you from achieving the recognition you deserve through your own competence.

            Next interview, assume they can’t read you at all. Most interviewers can’t in my experience. If you got to interview, you have every right to be there so bring the pizazz and see what happens!

          15. Leigh says:

            Hi TS,
            I often see similarities between you and my daughter. She has less self doubt and more confidence than I do. I think that’s a direct result of having an empathic parent. She’s really good at her job snd she knows it.

            Yes, everyone getting a trophy just for participating us exactly how it felt. Since there was a lot of praise, I questioned it.

            You’re right too about most interviewers not being able to read people. You’re also right that I feel like an imposter. I often think I’m maintaining a facade and that I’ll be found out. Then if I’m found out, what’s going to happen next? My daughter doesn’t think like that though. She sees herself much clearer than I see myself.

            There were so many mixed messages as a child. Some good, some bad. So many I don’t remember either.

            One thing my childhood did do was foster independence. I had to learn how to take care of myself. But am I truly independent or am I being a fraud? That’s where the ET stems for me. It feels like its the ET is tricking me into thinking I’m a fraud or an imposter.

          16. Truthseeker6157 says:


            I think ET likely plays on our weaker spots. We know it plays on our strongest empathic and narcissistic traits when narcs are in the picture. We have ET at varying levels all of the time so I think the higher the ET the more self doubt likely kicks in.

            I do think also that being the breadwinner likely makes you more cautious career wise and understandably so. Victim narc isn’t going to step up if you made a riskier move that didn’t pay off, and there has always been a family to support. It’s always easier to make the riskier moves if you don’t have other people relying on you. Once those responsibilities expire, you might find that your confidence grows.

            It’s great that your daughter has a realistic and confident view of herself and her abilities. A job well done there! You can confidently say that 😊


          17. Leigh says:

            Its funny that you said that victim narc won’t step up to the plate. All of a sudden this is the year he has decided to step up. For 40 years he sucked me dry, now that he realizes he’s losing control, he decides to amp up his game. He’s been complaining the whole time about how hard he’s working and that his body can’t take it. He won’t last long.

            It’s also interesting the point you made about my need to take of my children as swaying my decisions with regards to employment. Yes, I’ve taken the safe route because of that. That’s not an issue anymore now that they’re adults and it has changed my thoughts. Taking care of them is no longer part of the equation.

            Thank you, TS. Your validation of my actions and decisions is appreciated.

          18. Truthseeker6157 says:

            Bloody hell Leigh! I bet you nearly dropped down dead when he emerged from his man cave and went to work! I think that would annoy me more than anything else. The fact he decided to do it now, after relying on you for so many years. That might be a me thing, I saw red when online narc actually apologised for a snippy comment ( I left it read without response and he apologised a week later). I thought to myself “ After all that, and you apologise for that one remark after all the stunts you pulled and all the upset you caused.” So in many ways him deigning to get a job now, would enrage me more than him remaining in the man cave. Haha! That’s not logical at all is it? Makes perfect sense to me though!

            And, you’re welcome. Xx

          19. Leigh says:

            He’s creating plausible deniability. I can see through his bullshit now. I just want to clarify that he has worked, its just been the bare minimum or even less. He put in minimal effort and any money he made went to drugs, gambling and cigarettes. Some years he worked only two or three days a week. Some years he worked 6 days but only worked 3 or 4 hours a day. There was also a time he owned a bar and was gone every night working but made absolutely no money. In fact, I often had to pay the rent to keep it open. The reason I’m telling you this is because its much more insidious then him just not working. The difference now is he’s actually putting in a full schedule and making money. Now, he decides to do that? Bloody hell is right! Now, its too little too late. It doesn’t make up for me carrying him for 40 years. The delusion of grandeur is immense! I should also add, its only been 4 months and I know it won’t last.

        2. Joa says:

          TS, I will write more. I sense and use my empathic, but also narcissistic skills. In short, I manipulate people to get what they need. And when they do, they are content, joyful, calm, or euphorically happy. And I can be like that too – and then I can stay in their company for a long time.

          Who am I “so good” for? For them or for yourself?

          1. Truthseeker6157 says:

            Hey Joa, looking forward to hearing your thoughts on this.

            I think the answer to your question is possibly, “ Both.”


          2. Joa says:

            TS, of course you’re right – both.

            Although in the moments, when I feel worse (mentally or physically), it’s a little more complicated. I smile at someone intuitively and sincerely, I really feel kindness, but in that second my little brain in the back of my head is laughing at me: “Idiot, I know what you’re doing, stop pretending to be the Madonna in the picture! I know you’re bored and you won’t last more than 10 seconds, you’re about to say goodbye and turn around, ha ha ha, counting down: 10, 9, 8…”

            But when I’m bursting with joy and happiness, that little brain doesn’t stand a chance 🙂 It can bounce around, but I can’t hear it anyway, la la la 🙂

            Something like this 🙂

    2. Contagious says:

      Truthseeker hello! I lived with his new video. Yes, I agree we can uplift others. But I think it’s we know what’s wrong and help. Not that we are pushing our moods into another. I am often not in a great place yet I can feel another’s state and help masking my own pain. I don’t get why greaters would want us ? Or why gurus do? That I didn’t not get. Maybe more study is needed. But HG nailed me. Defined my daily life. I don’t see auras that I can’t connect with. I think he failed to mention our dreams. I believe contagions also are lucid dreamers and there is significance to it. But there is so little scientific understanding. Only two places I have found my kind: here and once this year when I went to a psychic fair that I found out later was a Wiccan fair.

      1. Truthseeker6157 says:

        Hello Contagious,

        I’m glad you found the video resonated with you. I thought about you when I listened to it actually and I also pondered your reaction as regards lucid dreams not being mentioned.

        Perhaps lucid dreams fall into the intuition category more than the Contagion category? HG defines Contagion in a specific way based on a shared ability to feel the emotion of someone else. To be a member of this school, you must experience this aspect. So all Contagion empaths share this ability to varying degrees. Some Contagion empaths might also be lucid dreamers but not all are, so lucid dreaming couldn’t be considered as an indicator for Contagion. Similar idea with intuition, some Contagions experience strong intuition, others might not, so again it can’t be a pre requisite for Contagion.

        Yes, thank you your example about projecting emotion does make sense. I kind of stumbled my way to that conclusion with my comment to Leigh, thank you for your input there.

        I think as far as Greaters go and their taste for Contagion empaths, I think that is to do with the use the Greater can make of the Contagion element. So if you find the guru narcissist in Middle Greater, (I think that’s right) then often this Greater will be formulating and leading a faith or something similar to a cult. The Contagion empath, unaware of what she is involved in, would recruit new members to the group. She is after all genuine in her skills, talents and objective. She believes in the merit of the faith / cult and can therefore be mobilised to further the aims of the Greater. I don’t think the Greater seeks the contagion element for his own personal needs as such, it’s the use he can make of it. That said, he could also gain negative fuel from overloading the contagion, draining her energy, not allowing opportunity for her to withdraw and recharge for example. The Contagion needs to recharge, needs to shed the emotional energy she has absorbed, to prevent that would really harm the empath I think. I imagine it would feel similar to claustrophobia. It would bring on a strong emotional response, a large hit of fuel. I don’t like the thought of that.

        Again I can imagine a correlation between psychic ability and Contagion, similar operating system, but again, not all Contagions would have psychic qualities so it couldn’t be a pre requisite for the school. I’m on the fence with psychic ability so I’ll leave that there haha!

        There might also be a bit of chicken and egg with Contagion too. If you are a person that can feel the emotion of everyone in a supermarket aisle, if you see auras around these people, and can feel overwhelmed by such situations, it’s likely you are impacted in a way that makes you more ‘open’ to other experiences also. You already experience things that others don’t so if there is such a thing as psychic ability, then the Contagion empath is likely to at least be open to the idea. Being open is sometimes all it takes. Like you, I think there’s a lot that science doesn’t yet explain and until it does and categorically, then lots of ‘strange’ things remain on the table, for me at least.


        1. Contagious says:

          Truthseeker thank you! Your insights and information are appreciated. I just don’t ever see myself being attracted to a guru. I get they would want intuitive types to lure people in. But that sounds like an intuitive narc! I just don’t get it but perhaps I am different. Never met a guru I liked. Also what is weird is although I like psychics, I am always looking for those who can talk about lucid dreams since I have them almost daily and since childhood. BUT I have never met a true psychic in my life! They almost all have degrees and experience in psychology and it seems to me to use their education and intuition instead. Oddly I met one head of the Wiccans who called me a witch. Weird. I am Scorpio 3 times over, sun, moon, rising and had heard that before. Not into believing parlor tricks but had my charts done once in my 20s. There is a thin line cusp of Sagittarius so it’s not a true trio. For whatever that means. I don’t see auras. I think maybe I saw ghosts but not sure. Not sure if they exist although many say they do. Nope my only “ psychic quality” is my dreams and maybe as HG says and I agree to know instantly what someone is feeling even in a supermarket. But I thought everyone dreamed like me and was surprised when my later diagnosed ex husband antisocial said his were black and white, rare, and only an occasional nightmare. I have never had a nightmare unless you count the death of my former best friend who showed me things like clocks at the time of her death. Later at trial confirmed by the LA coroner. I went to a dream workshop once and when describing our dreams, I was the only one different. Research shows that while half of people have lucid dreams in a lifetime only 1% have them once a week. I am in love he 1%. WHY? What does it mean if anything? I found contagians here like me or near like me. ThT means something. I asked HG about some of my precognitive dreams. He says coincidence. I don’t buy it. Too many to be coincidence. Too detailed to be coincidence and a lifetime of examples. BUT other than THEORIES of quantum mechanics of alternative realities which I lean on and FAITH that says it’s God which I believe but God is everything, there is no answer. I read a book on Sleep by a British author who suggests lucid dreaming is evolution but explains nothing or why. Sci nice explains its REM dreaming and where : prefrontal live but science has not determined ALOT. Science and Jung psychology say all the rookery and things you meet are you. I recently learned that you can talk to people and things in your dreams and ask them questions. I have tried. They dissolve or take in a name and response I give them. No response to questions. Stay tuned. How cool if you could talk to your own subconscious if that’s what it is. HG mentions auras. I have never seen them perhaps I could learn. He doesn’t mention dreams but only the contagion group I met here are like me. This must mean something. Maybe HG doesn’t see the link or he has not got to it. Also there are no definitive answers why. But I seek. I can’t ignore them, I wake up most mornings puzzled and write them done. Often places I have never been, people I haven’t met but there is a message. Sometimes I get it. I wrote two books from a dream. The third I wrote in a journal but I don’t think I will get to it. There are gads of people saying they created things in dreams. Ie paul McCartney in let it be. There are gads of historical claims in every religion from Christianity and prophets to American Indians. In history, people like me mattered not anymore and maybe that’s good as who the hell knows? I do strongly believe that contagions are the group that have lucid dreams. If half the world, my guess is they fall into it. Why does it matter? Lucid dreams are believed to heal and solve problems. They are creative and intuitive and allegedly from the subconscious. Imagine if you were confused if someone was a narc and could answer it definitively in a dream! But Truthseeker I am selfish here sorry, I seek answers wherever I can. Xxxx

          1. Truthseeker6157 says:

            Hi Contagious,

            I can understand why you really want to better understand your dreams. If I dreamt in fine detail every night as you do, I’d want to understand where those dreams were coming from too. It’s a subject I don’t really know much about. I have a dream house. Two actually (probably because I move around a lot. Haha!) I’m told that houses represent the self. That would make sense I think.

            I listen to a lot of podcasts, I’ll stay on the lookout and if I see anything that might be of interest to you, I’ll let you know. You must think about it a lot. I think about my dreams too when I have them.

            Haha, me either, never been interested in spiritual gurus at all. I think any form of spirituality comes from within, I certainly wouldn’t look for a guide if I was exploring that side to myself. I’d see it as their experience, not my own.

            Your point about being confused about someone being a narc and being able to answer it in a dream. That made me chuckle. I’ve had two narcs appear in my dreams. One was online narc, the other was HG, only one met an unfortunate end. I think your subconscious does know, it just speaks in a language we’re often not that familiar with.


        2. Enthralled says:

          Hi TS, hope you do not mind me adding my own thoughts to this discussion…

          Quote = I think as far as Greaters go and their taste for Contagion empaths, I think that is to do with the use the Greater can make of the Contagion element. So if you find the guru narcissist in Middle Greater, (I think that’s right) then often this Greater will be formulating and leading a faith or something similar to a cult. The Contagion empath, unaware of what she is involved in, would recruit new members to the group.

          I have to admit I do not get this either. Logically I can see the thought process. The thing is the belief system would have to align beautifully. Often it is messy. I can relate to many things but follow no path but my own and I will not deviate or smudge it to fit any belief system… Would their beliefs not need to align exactly? How would the narc convince the contagion bringing people in was in those persons’ best interests? If it isn’t – would they not see through it anyway? Will the empath not see any hypocrisy? Will their inner moral compass not prevent putting others into something they are not assured is legit? If any wrongdoing is suspected will they not be the ones to blow the whole thing to pieces? Lies – deceit – ill intentions we feel those things and are very good at spotting them. We also have a habit of protecting others from harm – we know if someone is upset. Would it not be easier to use other types of empaths?

          Okay, we might get caught up in the initial stages of being courted – but we are not going to react normally to devaluation. Even if we do not instantly walk away – our reactions will not follow course. If we are expected to feel fear and the other person experiences exhilaration – this will dampen the response. Anger met with anger etc… Unless they get into your head and play with you that way – like my ex… But that means adapting strategies and most would not be bothered by the trouble – but then they would have to recognize us for what we are.

          All that being said my ex did try to become a vicar (I did not go to church with him once – supported his need – but was not my thing). He was also interested in starting up in politics. He did not like the current system – which I agreed with – but disagreed about the issues – if I were ever to develop a desire to go into politics – I think I would have been the opposition and not his supporter lol

      2. Joa says:

        Recently I had a dream, that N2 would live to be 90 years old. And that was “that” dream.

        Unfortunately, just when I was about to find out how many years I would live, the alarm sound and woke me up.

        [I have an autoimmune disease, that I control electronically for 24 hours, and which manifests itself in, among other things, the fact that when cortisol, adrenaline and some other hormones appear (I saw N2 in a dream), in a few seconds the pathogenic indicators also increase enormously and an alarm sounds. I often silence the alarms at work, because it happens, that I just pass my boss in the corridor and immediately squeak at the whole company, ha ha ha – reaction to hypocrisy, pressure and falsehood].

        So, the time of my death remained a mystery to me 🙂 Because of a stupid alarm 🙂

        1. Contagious says:

          Joa: have any of your precise Dates, times or accounts come true? Do you know honk your alarm going off was a coincidence? Could or would you want to go back to the dream and find out? I can go back to a dream but no luck so far talking to people or things in my dream? I had an experience of seeing my murdered friends room where she showed me the time of death (clocks) and motive ( written down in her journal) but then I saw a man’s wrist at an elevator pounding on it as slow felt all this aggression and woke up screaming. I got to the floor and payed to God to never have this happen again. It was so cold , freezing, but summer outside. I felt my dream was purposely interrupted. Just a feeling no proof.

          1. Joa says:

            Yes, I wrote here before – when my grandfather died. He came to me and I felt a great warmth. I talked to him for many hours. He was lying on the sofa, where he died. I was impressed by this dream for days, I felt its comforting presence. I wrote this dream in my diary.
            I was in a sanatorium at the time, and only a few weeks later my mother informed me that my grandfather had died. I compared the dates – it was the same night.

            Perhaps it’s a coincidence. It’s funny how I felt the same warmth in N2 dreams for many years. Not now. But I feel calm.


            I rarely have these kinds of dreams. I sleep only 3-5 hours a day, and if longer, only when I “drop like dead”, because the body demands it.

            I used to be able to go back to sleep and dream the continuation + impose the course of events. For over 20 years I haven’t had time for it because I get up very early for work.


            Yes, I believe the same – that sleep is deliberately interrupted.

            I am sure (I don’t know how) that if I found out about the date of my death, I would not wake up. So I don’t want to go back to that.

            I never dreamed of my own death. I always wake up just before the moment of transition. It’s like I’ve come back from another world, like I’ve come up from the bottom of the ocean and greedily sucked in a gust of air. The heart is pounding like a hammer and a I cannot calm down for a long time.

            Although, I believe that when I do die – in due time – it will be very peaceful, and I will gladly give myself into her arms.


            It’s very similar to the altered state of consciousness after sniffing glue (unfortunately, I had such experiences in my early youth) – when a person understands the meaning of life and death. Unfortunately, I can’t describe it – I only remember this amazing feeling and this damn certainty, that this is what I exist for.

          2. Sweetest Perfection says:

            I also wanted to say that one of the reasons I liked the video on contagions so much is precisely because HG mentioned the auras. I am almost certain he doesn’t believe in that stuff as he doesn’t believe in synchronicities and he doesn’t dream either. I regarded that as a very respectful mention, as it is very frustrating when you have wonderful experiences that you wish you could share with everyone but you don’t for fear of being deemed “new age” or anything derogatory. I am not majority contagion, just have a significant minority. However like you all said, every Empath is an individual with exposures to different experiences too. My intuition has always been very alert and I also attract many animals and children even though I’ve never wanted my own children. This past week for example I was staying with some family member and they all laughed at the fact that the following morning their two dogs their two cats and their little daughter decided to get all on top of my bed and sleep with me. I feel happy around animals. Likewise, my dreams have always been my sheltering place. I never say this because I want to sound “special,” quite the contrary. I believe everyone has so much more inside that we don’t explore either for fear or for stupid prejudices.

    3. Asp Emp says:

      Does your empath friend know about your addiction / want for the narcissistic partner?

      1. Truthseeker6157 says:

        Hi Asp Emp,

        Yes he does and understands why that works for me. To be clear, there is no attraction for the empath friend, we both think of each other more as siblings. In fact now, the thought of him in a romantic context would make my skin crawl, he would say the same.

        At the very start, when we first met, I would say there was a strong draw to each other, he’s a very good looking guy too. That wasn’t the draw though. Any slight flicker of attraction I might have had or rather, any potential to see him in a romantic light, disappeared when he received his EDC results. It is lovely though to finally feel that there is emotional support there for me if I need it. I’m an only child, always wanted a brother haha! True that.


        1. annaamel says:

          ‘Any slight flicker of attraction I might have had or rather, any potential to see him in a romantic light, disappeared when he received his EDC results‘

          Have you considered this critically, TS? As in – whether this response is ideal or even….emotionally healthy? As an objective observer it seems illogical, very much emotional thinking and worth delving into some more.

          1. Truthseeker6157 says:

            Hi Annamel,

            I see how you are looking at it and why a narcissistic individual would not be everyone’s cup of tea, however it works best for me.

            I’m actually not an overly emotional person. I don’t often seek support, very rarely, but I’ll admit that when I need support I need it. Usually, I support others and I fix myself. That isn’t because I feel unworthy of the time, attention and support of another person or a partner, I fix myself because I’m better at it than most other people. I rarely confide because most of the time I don’t get any benefit from confiding. I have benefited here. I confide more on here than anywhere else but even then I regret a lot of what I have written here. Hopefully others will benefit from at least a little of what I have written on the blog.

            I don’t want to live with a Truthseeker like myself who questions everything to within an inch of its life. I want a break from the questions, the questions and analysis of others are never ending for me. I want to be left to get on with it. I want my partner to get on with it. I don’t want to have to save or support or confide or listen to the vulnerabilities of the man I’m with. I do all of that most days for everyone else. I can’t read a news article without becoming frustrated, disappointed or concerned. The thought of having a partner that felt all of that too wouldn’t help, wouldn’t support, it would simply enable me to wallow in the utter disappointment I feel at what I see occur between people on a daily basis.

            I don’t get any of that with a narcissistic individual. Narcissistic, not narcissist. I do actually want someone who genuinely cares for me, but I’m not romantic, not a love devotee other than in a moral compass way. Many of my own empathic traits I have no desire to see in a partner. None whatsoever. I want a break from it, not to add to it.

            I don’t think that’s emotional thinking. I think that is a choice that just suits me. Absolutely accept that it’s not a choice that would suit everyone, but I don’t need to suit everyone, I need to suit me.

            Is the Witcher narcissistic? I think he might be. That would explain a lot haha!


        2. Contagious says:

          Truthseeker I have tried sooo hard to love the empath ones! I have two great loves in my life when younger who were very empathetic . The relations were great but ended on circumstance and timing. I wish there was a switch to say he is such a good man let me love him and I have given it time. One wanted to marry me and we are still good friends or buddies 26 years later. Ah life! Love is rare. I feel it finds you. You cannot create it no matter how great that empath is!!! I have had only two relations with narcs. Both were unstable and confusing and my first hubby was an antisocial and it was very stable, living the good life, a bit routine but ultimately I discovered he was a criminal and a cheat and I ran. Oddly no heart break. None.

          1. Truthseeker6157 says:


            I read that the most common female fantasy in terms of the ‘ideal man’ is the quintessential bad boy who is bad to everyone else apart from his mate and their children. I think that suggests narcissistic. It’s supposedly based on some primeval desire to find a strong mate who will protect his offspring therefore give them the best chance of survival.

            I’m obviously behind the modern times when it comes to choosing a partner! Oh well.

            I want a man to be a man, you know? I certainly don’t want to be in a relationship with myself. I’d drive me mad. I think that’s largely what it boils down to. To have me as a friend though, that pretty much closes the circle, best of both worlds.

            Sister wife!! Haha! I should be with a polygamist!! I don’t do share though, so even there I’d run into problems.

            Narcs are out. But other than that, we love who we love and that’s that I think.

            That’s interesting that you haven’t had your heart broken. Lucky you! Mine has been broken once by a romantic partner, once by a ‘friend’. I still was the one to end those relationships, it just felt a bit like chewing off my own arm at the time. I’m pleased you haven’t ever been in that position Contagious.


    4. Dani says:

      Hi TS!

      I struggle a bit with the not being able to project, too. Cause I would think that was a bit of what I can do…but I agree with your, “Two empaths both significant Contagion. That might explain it in part.” You mentioned that you have other friends who pick up on your calm. How many others?

      You say if someone is sad, you can’t give them your happiness…generally speaking, would you even behave in a joyful way when someone you care about is clearly close to you and in pain?

      1. Truthseeker6157 says:

        Hello Dani,

        Really good point, if someone was sad and I was happy I wouldn’t want to project my happiness onto them anyway. I’d want to try and help them and understand the reason why they were sad.

        In answer to your question about friends and calm, four friends I think but one is a narc so we have to discount that and say three.

        They are all close friends. All anxious at the time but for different reasons. I calm my daughter on a regular basis. I say very little because she doesn’t tell me the problem straight away. She hovers instead, hangs around in my space, (which is unusual as she’s a very headstrong teen) then she settles, then she talks. Can’t count my daughter either really because she’s my daughter !

        I am not a calm person ordinarily, at all. My personality if drawn would look far more like a heartbeat. So calm isn’t really my thing, but apparently I can make people feel calm. Maybe it’s a combination of things that empaths do automatically, but on occasion I do very much try to balance the anxiety I feel on someone with a steady calm of my own. The other Significant Contagion empath I spoke about is naturally far calmer than me, healer is also his strongest empathic trait and, he heals physically on a daily basis via his job. So he would be far better at that particular mood / emotion than I would.

        Here’s a wild card. You know how when several women share a house their cycles all coincide? I’ve heard a similar thing can happen with heartbeats. Could also be a biological calming as well as just an emotional one. How accurate the heartbeat thing is, I don’t know but I do recall reading it ages ago.


  13. Sweetest Perfection says:

    Did I tell you lately how much I love this series? Oops, yes I did. A little bit too much.

    1. Witch says:


      Out with starsigns and in with the…

      “It’s my cadrah babe, my cadrah!”

      “I came out of myself taday, but the full moon is in geezer so that explains it”

      “Only is empaffs understand, init?”

      1. Sweetest Perfection says:

        Are you alright, Witch? I really don’t understand your comment. I like having more information about empaths and that’s why I said I am enjoying this series. I don’t know what your comment means but without being contagion, I sense your sarcasm.

        1. Witch says:

          I was making a joke about how cadres and schools are going to replace starsigns in popularity

          1. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Thanks for clarifying! I got a mean response on YouTube when I got too emotional about the new material and I was a bit sensitive, sorry. There was a rude individual on YouTube who insulted contagions and she made me feel really bad about that (I only have a significant percentage but still, it was offensive to the majority ones).

          2. Joa says:

            Very good, Witch, there is something in it! I’m surprised I didn’t come up with that comparison myself 🙂

            Of course, it flattens out the depth of insights and the HG classification, but I think a lot of audiences approach it that way.

            The most important thing is to remember that schools and staff do not assign us to any fixed scheme. Rather, they only describe, help to think. Each person is an individual set of characteristics. Unbelievable millions of personality variations.

            And on top of that, a person learns and modifies himself throughout his life.

      2. Witch says:

        Maybe they were bitter after getting a negative result from doing the ED

        1. Sweetest Perfection says:

          Hahaha probably as she actually confessed to be a normal that doesn’t care about the feelings of people she doesn’t know.

          1. Witch says:

            She bought the test hoping for an empath result 😉

          2. Contagious says:

            Hi everyone: yes the fact HG says contagions sees auras open this category up to new age types who can’t be taken seriously. But HG also says we are the rarest and on a soul level of intuition. Not something to make mincemeat pie from. I was made fun of about my dreams as a child, told I had quite the imagination etc… But if you use this intuition to further your career as I have in law. It helps to read people from negotiation to cross exam, it’s no joke. I often solve legal challenges also no joke. And everything flourishes from my ability to nurture correct from two highly happy and successful children in their twenties to a long long list of stable friendships and coworkers and clients. No joke. I can help others well as I know how. Apparently greater narcs target us. I have strong true believing Faith but I also look strongly to science to ground my opinions. I get contagions are easy to joke about with their weird dreams and love of nature and intuition that others I guess don’t naturally have and aura reading abilities which I don’t have BUT I see us as rare but necessary. I know this sounds defensive but truly I aim to say that being a contagion is a true description, one of the best I have to explain personal things. As to narcs through HG’s education, I trust my intuition more and not the words of a narc. If you know something is off, believe it. If they show you who they are, believe it. I personally believe HG should be in every college curriculum on psychology. He nails it. There are other labels that could be used. I once asked him the difference between an abusive asshole and a narc and he replied, “ does it matter?” Lol But there are clinical tests and characteristic that define a cluster B. Personally I see a blur in all cluster B. Like a tree with limbs. But who am I to challenge their labels. As to contagion, I took the Tudor test, yup. The shoe fit.

          3. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Contagious, I do see auras, and many people do too. It is not fantasy and it is not magic, just vibrational rings. Quantum physics has proven this is not made up. I also wanted to answer a question you posted about your dreams but I got scared people laughed at me. I do have lucid dreams and I do astral projection and I mentioned it briefly on some thread. I do not predict future events though but it is not unbelievable once you experience time as a continuum in astral plane. I am not making this up and I do not suffer from any mental condition. There are thousands of books, scientific documentation and videos on astral projection. Absolutely everyone can do it. In my case it happened in an accidental manner, some people control it better and can do it even when they are focused and awake (I don’t). But talking about this to people that believe it is pure fantasy is akin to trying to convince a woman who never had an orgasm that women can orgasm. It’s within you, you just need to exercise it in the same way atrophied muscles can be exercised.

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