Sounding Off


Vent your spleen. Have your say. Give us both barrels. Let us know what you really think. Such sentiments towards my kind are entirely understandable and they invariably occur post discard and sometimes post escape. There are differing rationales associated with this almost overwhelming need to speak to us about your experience of being entangled with our kind.

1.      Anger. You realise how you have been manipulated, abused and taken for a fool. Your anger is substantial and you feel a pressing need to unleash that anger against us with a litany of insults and some choice language.

2.      Enlightenment. You have had your epiphany and realised precisely what ensnared you, how it happened and why. You have seized this knowledge and now feel elated that you have done so. There is a sense of superiority in finally having all the pieces of the puzzle click into place and you want to confront us. You may not actually tell us what we are but you will certainly want to use the words, “I know what you are now.”

3.      Unfinished Business Part One. Nearly all discards occur without you being told that the Formal Relationship is over and if you are given such notice you are rarely given any proper or adequate explanation as to why this has happened. This results in the need to confront us at a later stage in order to try to find out why what has happened, has happened.

4.      Unfinished Business Part Two. This is akin to the situation above but the basis of this confrontation is in order to demand of us how we could do what we did and address your need to have us explain ourselves for what we did during the relationship.

5.      To Understand. You do not know what you were entangled with and you are unable to comprehend how somebody could behave in that manner towards you after everything that you did for us. This tirade details all of the help you gave us, the advantages that you conferred on us and each and every thing you did for us in the name of love.

6.      Clear the Smear. Predictably enough, you will have been smeared following your entanglement with us. You have heard all about the lies that have been peddled about you and you want to set us straight about how those comments were wrong, that you did not behave in the manner which we have described to other people and ultimately how you need to clear your name.

7.      The Right to Be Heard. You have a significant desire to want to be heard, especially as our manipulation of your will have caused you to feel that you have not been listened to during the Formal Relationship. You want your voice to be heard, you need to articulate your thoughts and feelings and an opportunity to avail yourself of discharging this need is too good to pass up.

8.      Convey the Pain. You remain horrendously wounded by your experience of being entangled with us and you want to let us know how badly we hurt you, how much it pains you still and how upset you are to have been treated this way.

9.      Sing the Praises. Sometimes you exhibit a capacity for nobility which manages to transcend the hurt, the pain and the angry. You remain bewitched by the golden period and all those magnificent attributes that you believe we still possess and therefore rather than attack us, expound bitterness or lash out, you declare all the reasons why you still love us, why you find us mesmerising despite what has happened and you wish us well for the future.

10. Justice. It is only right that are given the right of reply to the treatment that has been meted out against you.

11. Medicine. You put up with the tantrums, the lengthy invectives, the oral onslaughts and you were pummelled by our words. Now it is the time to give us a taste of our own medicine.

Whatever the motivation may be, your need and desire to have that final confrontation with us, to purge yourself of all those thoughts and considerations is huge and is very difficult for you to resist. Indeed, most of the time you do not resist it at all, instead you look to engineer situations whereby you are able to speak to us and deliver this tirade, this riposte, this howitzer. You will seek us out in order to provide us with a piece of your mind. Is this a good thing? Well, there are two potential upsides when this is looked at from your perspective. The first is that you are able to get things off your chest. All those thoughts which have whirled around your mind for weeks on end, the ifs and buts which prevented you from sleeping, the imponderables and the unanswered have been released as you allow your words to explode from you in an outburst of emotion applicable to whichever rationale which has driven you to this point. The second is that you may well feel that you have achieved some kind of closure by engaging in this step of giving us a piece of your mind.

     But what about our perspective on all of this? What does this blast, this sounding off and this diatribe mean to us? This is where giving a piece of your mind in such a manner is actually not a good thing for you to do. Why is this?

1.      Sounding off in such an emotional manner, whether it is insulting us with angry words, crying with pain, savagely mauling us with a sneering and twisted face or even expressing how you still love us, just provides us with fuel and it is plentiful. You may have collared us on the telephone to vent at us. Anybody normal would end the call as they are repeatedly harangued and insulted, but not us, we will listen as we soak up all that fuel. Yes, we will be argumentative, defensive and belligerent but that is just to keep your tirade going owing to the plentiful fuel you are providing to us.

2.      This is a prime opportunity for us to hoover you. If we see you are angry, we may express false contrition, if you are hurt and upset we may declare how we will make changes so everything is right, if you reminisce about our wonderful times we will offer that golden period again to you. You are giving us a glorious opportunity to hoover you and in your heightened emotional state there is a good chance this will succeed.

3.      If we do not hoover at this point, you have just given us several reasons to execute a hoover at a later juncture by confirming to us that you remain adrift in the emotional state, you are fountaining with fuel and still beholden to us. The signs are good and it all points to a successful hoover in the near future.

4.      You confirm to us that you have failed to grasp the logic and reason of the situation and therefore your defences are weak. This means that further manipulations can be used and they will prove effective in terms of fuel and control.

5.      We take no notice of what you are actually saying. You may think that your speech is devastating, that you are landing telling blows on us, that you are assassinating our character and making us look terrible. You are not. You are playing into our hands. We are laughing at you inside.

6.      You are confirming that we continue to have considerable control over you. We may be busy with a new primary source but this confirmation acts as a green light to further unleashing of manipulations against you because you are not able to let go.

The temptation to give us a piece of your mind is vast and overwhelming but if done in the usual emotional fashion of the typical empathic individual you are just giving us more of what we want, failing to hurt us and extending your own entanglement with us.

48 thoughts on “Sounding Off

  1. yes. yet i did it. though i shouldve known better. back to ignore and minimal non emotional only if i have to bc of the kids contact. i do not desire any part of him. it did feel good to me to write him the sound off. but i know it was nothing but fuel and had zero impact other than it made me feel better to let him know i knew what he was. but the fact he was actually laughing at me i do not like that reality. yet…im not sorry i sent it. now im done. i do feel it took him off guard. i have never done anything like that to him. im always just running away grom him and his many accusations against me trying to live my life. . .he relishes that i cannot fully bc of him and the entanglement of the 4 kids. he is very content to control and manipulate me through them.

  2. MLA - Clarece says:

    So incredibly powerful and well said!!

  3. Bloody Elemental says:

    One of my favourite tactics when someone is “giving me all they have got” is to sit there, filing my nails, while they scream, yell, curse, swear, cry, etc.

    When they are finished and just about ready to collapse, I simply look up and say, “I am sorry….were you saying something?” and get up and leave the room.

  4. I’ve noticed that a lesser and perhaps mid-range might rage and rage and in moments will have a brief period where they stare and seem to tune out and make a kind of sad shrug face, as if some long lost message is trying to reach them, then they will make some smalltalk and carry on. A lesser will pay a lot of attention to your hands and expressions in a conversation because they are confused about where they come from.

    A couple of them I know have asthma and this tends to play up when they are losing control.

    I’m wondering if the glazed eyes thing is something others have seen? My mother would have all of the evil smirk and anger and fake joy etc but always after it all, that sad and confused gaze. I don’t know if this was some kind of “hang on, I think I’m sick” or if the gaze involved her planning her next move.

    A greater tends to not have so many bodily stress signs when they are raging and it would tend to be controlled and their eyes never glaze because they are alert and aware in every moment. They don’t seem to ever look confused but either angry or predator-like.

  5. The hardest thing is to let go of the violation of so many rights, the waste of time, the investment of identity, energy, lies to the self, suppression of the self, loss of dreams. The isolation during the relationships and the loneliness, the self doubt. The invasion of your story and what you deserve out of life. The ties to bodily sensations, routine, stories, etc. The acceptance you’ll never connect. You’ll never be human.

    It is very, very difficult to accept nobody is coming to fix this.

    Nobody is keeping any narc in check, and nobody will punish them to stop them. When you are around them, you are on lawless territory and nobody defends you. You can’t stop it, control it, or do anything to protect yourself. You can’t get the time back and you also do not want to change your worldview and change the way you see and interact with people. Nobody pays the damage bill, but you.

    And the narc will repeat that story over and over, remind you you have been stupid to be conned and smirk at your humiliation and the years you have worked to fix their issues that didn’t even exist. They are expert at keeping you there “for the team” or “forgive me but I’m trying.” After all this, just laughing.

  6. Angelina says:

    HG, I was thinking of sending my ex narc a text. I want for him to have peace as I’ve ignored his call and email that I must be happier than if I was with him and I must hate him. Then I read this, and it gave me affirmation that its best I remain no contact as it will not serve any purpose on my part but feed him fuel and a possibility of future mind games. Thank you.

    1. NarcAngel says:


      Very true. Stay no contact. He wont ever have peace, he’s baiting you for contact and fuel.

      1. NA, i was thinking over your comment, and i value your point. Maybe our narc gets more from engaging with us than we do from him, so it is not exactly an equal engagement, but we are still receiving something, as you point out. That ‘something’ may be the interaction with our narc. Sometimes the interaction is so negative, we wish we did not interact at all, but we still do, so perhaps it fills a void inside us. See HG it is not only narcs who have a void!

  7. HG i returned to your blog after a day and i’m so far behind! You’ve posted many articles and memes since. You’re a machine! But i will catch up. I almost treat it as homework. I love it here. It is so therapeutic. I missed you all day😊

  8. bowersusan says:

    i am still with my person, and i will not be leaving anytime soon since we have a child. but here are some things that my person has taught me:

    1. you can’t control anyone other than yourself.
    2. don’t reward bad behavior.
    3. he has every right to his own opinion as do i.
    4. i have figured out who i am, what my values are, and i LIVE those values EVERY moment. even when he is behaving badly.
    5. if i value treating people with dignity and respect, then that means i treat EVERYONE with dignity and respect. NO exceptions.

    there are probably more things but i can’t think of them right now. cheers

  9. MLA - Clarece says:

    I just don’t know…
    It felt very cathartic letting JN know a few days ago what took a year in a therapist’s chair and then all the pieces and parts I’ve shared here over time and culminated in my writing a piece for “Awakened” (whether it makes it in there or not). I got the most sincere apology I ever have from him. Seemed like closure. Seemed like finality. Time will tell. Maybe our non-written contract has severed this time?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      It will not have been sincere Clarece, although of course it sounds that way for the purpose of manipulation, I can do a marvellous sincere apology. However, if you feel like it has given you some kind of closure then that works for you and why not build on that. He will come sniffing around again in the future – this apology was done to cause you to lower your guard and think that he has ‘seen the light’.

      1. MLA - Clarece says:

        That’s a lot of work to go thru when he was also saying we’ll never be what we want the other to be and can’t be together again. Maybe he wanted me to beg there? I just agreed that there are too many volatile undercurrents.
        I don’t doubt your apologies can be Golden Globe worthy.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          I suspect he will have been trying a different tack to get you to respond.

          1. MLA - Clarece says:

            Interesting. If your gut instinct is correct, that is really a lot of energy extended focusing on my responding to him. That must be quite an edifying release of dopamine he gets when I do. Who’s addicted to who again in these relationships?

          2. HG Tudor says:

            You to us. Us to you.

          3. MLA - Clarece says:

            You sure it’s in that order. lol

  10. Windstorm says:

    Matilda, I agree completely with your comments on the sadness. And if you truly care about them, it never leaves. You just have to learn to keep it in the back of your mind and not think about it. Even if you maintain a connection with them and a relationship, you are constantly confronted by feelings of sadness for all the experiences, joy and happiness that they will never experience. It’s always hard to see them sabotaging their own chances for happiness. At least they are not really aware of what they’re missing out on. You can’t really miss what you’ve never had. And my narcissists don’t really believe the rest of us really feel all that joy, happiness and connection with others. They think we’re lying, pretending or deluded.

    1. Matilda says:

      “…feelings of sadness for all the experiences, joy and happiness that they will never experience.”

      That’s exactly it, Windstorm!! It is like talking about colour to a blind man… does a blind man understand the concept of colour, or grasp what he is missing, or even care if he cannot see? Yes, they may think colours do not even exist, we just made it all up to wound them!

  11. Snow White says:

    Number 5 says it for me.
    She was pretty much laughing the whole entire time because I made everything so easy for her.

  12. Sail Away says:

    Incredible post again!!!

    What if, instead of sounding off, I end up going back to my marriage and committing there or even finding solace in the arms of another. How would the Mid-Range Narc react then? Rage? Blackmail? He is also married.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      This would be a considerable criticism. He would be wounded and would require fuel. He may try to plead with you through pity plays etc, or if not possible then you would be given a silent treatment and he would seek fuel from his spouse.

  13. NarcAngel says:

    There is something about having your say but it has to be for you because as its been pointed out, it only fuels them or falls on deaf ears. I have found leaving my thoughts in print allows me to get stuff off of my chest and yes they can read that in any way they want (and not interrupt or yell over you) so its fuel, but they do that anyway and I feel better The last paragraph of the post says it all:” if done in the usual emotional fashion”. Any follow-up contact must be in a neutral fashion. Things like: you mean nothing to me or you are so boring, said without emotion or even printed wound far worse. Once in a text I put simply: yawn. He almost lost his mind. Another time I said your crazy is showing- you might want to tuck that in. I braced but he looked confused and said Im just tired. Of course even before discard I would say things like: its too bad people cant appreciate your hard work at the gym because of all that body hair or if your teeth were whiter your smile could light up a room but said matter of factly-no emotion. They might act like they dont care but youll feel better and you bet your ass they do. It’s a form of revenge, but of course the best revenge is what HG tells you here: No contact or no emotion if you must because of shared custody etc.

    1. Matilda says:

      Once we see through them and know how to strike so that it hurts, we watch them crumble. There is an immense sense of satisfaction in witnessing how they finally fall… but it is very short-lived… because deep down, this goes against all that we wanted, and all we believe in… we know why it had to end this way, but there is a profound sadness about it all that never really leaves you.

      1. NarcAngel says:


        Help me to understand if you can. What is the sadness about that never leaves?

      2. Matilda says:

        For me at least, the sadness is knowing the outcome could have been different… they were not born this way, they were broken when they were very young… the sadness that no matter how hard you try, you cannot reach their core because they will not let you in… the sadness that they will spend the rest of their lives in torment hurting others just like they hurt you… the sadness that you cannot heal them because they cannot admit to themselves that they need healing… the abysmal sadness that you cannot save them… you have to abandon them as they were abandoned by those who should have loved them when they were little and helpless… it is not guilt, because you leave for the right reasons, but it is sadness that you carry with you…

        1. NarcAngel says:

          Please know this is not directed at you specifically, or the people (including me) who choose willingly to interact with Narcs.

          Thank you for your reply. I have never understood how people get stuck feeling melancholy or keep trying to heal or save them when as you point out, they dont want to change. In fact not only do they resist help, they target people to injure and abuse. I hate that they were mistreated, but as adults they have choice-we just dont understand their choice and feel we know whats best for them (by we I mean non narcs) but do we?. Child abusers and sex offenders are often mistreated and we wouldn’t think for a second to stay in a relationship with them to help them. so that leaves me then with the feeling that its a little more selfish on the Empath side than they would care to admit. They were given a glimpse of a fantasy and they want that far more than they want to save anyone. I would suggest at the risk of alienating everyone on here (and that is truly NOT my intention) that perhaps we are as sick as they are in a way that just seems more acceptable or palatable. Would we suggest for even a second that our children date, marry, or not give up on a child abuser or sex offender because they had a bad beginning? But its okay for us to suffer or sacrifice our happiness for someone who maims people in the myriad ways of a narc so that we can have our romantic fantasy mate? Yes its harsh, but we need to stop giving them our pity and sadness, or any more real estate in our head if they refuse help. And by help I dont mean nursed back to health by our Empathic “love”. They are dangerous people and we would do well not to romanticize and to remember that when we are not protected by the 5 rules.

      3. Love says:

        I can’t speak for Matilda but the sadness is accepting the dream that can never be. But I am determined and I get right back on that horse… In search of my narc soul mate. Someday I will find him and we will have our Happily Ever After! 🌈

      4. Matilda says:

        You are not alienating, NarcAngel: different points of view are important, they deepen our understanding.

        I moved on, have been in ‘no contact’ for almost a year now, several hoover attempts ignored… so, *intellectually*, I know exactly what he is doing and why, and how I need to protect myself… but from time to time, it hurts on a more spiritual level.

        Yes, we think that we know what’s best for them… your own ego plays a role in this, too… you tend to think that you are the one who can do it… you take it on and fix something no one else has been able to do… how powerful is that?… though I would care so much more about the positive outcome than my involvement in it, it would be an indirect testament to my own power… it all comes crushing down when you realise you cannot instill change in someone else, no matter how good your intentions are… change must be his own choice!

        “They were given a glimpse of a fantasy and they want that far more than they want to save anyone”. Thank you for bringing this up, NarcAngel. I have thought about it thoroughly and can honestly say, I did not want the fantasy more… I wanted a life with him, even if that meant not getting the fantasy I had been sold… an imperfect life would have been okay with me… but you cannot even have that with a manipulative person who tries to undermine you every second of the day… and no amount of love can cure that… the only choice you have is to walk away.

        What happened was far too painful to romanticise anything… I tell my female friends about red flags, and if I had children I would teach them to keep their hearts and souls safe… we need to put an end to this madness.

        Yes, you are right, they are adults and they have a choice… they do not deserve our compassion, their victims do!! From time to time, this sadness surfaces, but it passes, especially when I remind myself of what he has put me through!

        1. NarcAngel says:


          Thank you for having this discussion with an open mind and I congratulate you on one year no contact. That is indeed an accomplishment.
          Im not looking for a reply but I ask this:
          If we cant even have an imperfect life with them due to manipulations and undermining every second of the day, it is far too painful to romanticize, and we warn others of the red flags to spare further victims, what is it we are in love with if not the fantasy?
          As I see it there is only the fantasy man we met or the Narc expised. Anything else we have fabricated ourselves.

      5. Matilda says:

        “…what is it we are in love with if not the fantasy?”

        That is a good question, NarcAngel, and I can only describe it in this manner: once all is laid bare, many conflicting emotions wash over you… my narc was an upper Mid-Ranger, he was neither of the malignant kind nor physically abusive… that’s probably why I allowed myself to feel hope… he had some awareness, and moments of clarity… I had never met a person like this before… and I still loved him underneath it all, *the real him* not the fantasy… I had to learn that love does not conquer all… it tore me apart to let him go… but you have to love and respect yourself enough to walk away, there is no alternative.

        1. Matilda, my narc is a mid-ranger too. Just like yours, he is neither malignant nor physically abusive. In fact, he is very introverted, quiet, and passive. In devaluation however, he would raise his voice at me from time to time. The silent treatments and future faking used to bother me alot though.
          We both now know he’s a narc, so i told him he doesn’t need to mirror me any more. I said i will love his true self. We are just friends now, as i find it difficult to stay away after the hoovers. We are at peace with each other, for now.

      6. Matilda says:

        Your narc sounds like mine, Ptsdafternarcabuse… of all the things he said and did, future faking hurt me the most… he wants friendship now and even acknowledges that this request is selfish… I cannot be friends with him… this is not what I wanted, therefore, it is not acceptable…

        A year ago, when I wrote my last message, I explained calmly and without any anger in my heart why we cannot keep in touch… I wanted him to truly understand why I was doing this, that was very important to me… he keeps asking and says he knows why I ignore him, so, I feel no urge to reply… it still hurts… there are days, the anger surfaces, and I want him to suffer as I do – ‘no contact’ is the best method to achieve that… but mostly, I feel it is the right decision and I am okay with it…

        1. I am glad you are at peace with your decision. No contact is definitely best for those who have the determination for it. I was no contact for 1.5 months only. I could not resist the hoovers. Sending you warm wishes for ongoing strength 💗

      7. Matilda says:

        Thank you, Ptsdafternarcabuse 🙂 … they tap into your deepest hopes and desires, trying to lure you back in… *very* persuasive and charming if they want to, these creatures are, indeed… yet they NEVER EVER HONOUR THEIR PLEDGES… this makes them meaningless… so, I do not bother anymore, and it feels great!! You will eventually get there if you choose to! 🙂 🙂

        1. Thx for your comment matilda

      8. Love says:

        NarcAngel I completely agree with you. Yes I am loca en la cabeza. I’ve taken full responsibility for being with these narcs. And I know my “love/fuel/magical powers” cannot heal them. Yes my actions are selfish. But I only have that intense feeling with narcs, I can’t get it elsewhere. It is a deep sense of satisfaction … I know it is twisted.
        As for not wanting this for my own children – yes, and so I chose not to have them… And also because I never wanted a replica of the narcs I’ve been with. Maybe one day I will no longer crave the intensity and find a beautiful empathic man who will love, protect, and respect me.

        1. NarcAngel says:


          I dont see you as selfish or twistwd. You go in with your eyes wide open and make the decision for yourself and dont involve others. Continue to love, protect, and respect yourself. I hope you find your guy.

      9. Love says:

        Thank you NarcAngel. Big hoog and ❤

  14. Matilda says:

    One of my epiphanies was to realise that my words don’t matter, they don’t wound as they would wound me if I had to hear them. What matters to a narc is solely the EMOTION connected to what you say or do.

    He gains his satisfaction from seeing, or knowing (in absence) that he has the power to evoke emotions in you, regardless if they are positive or negative… that he has the power to pierce right into your core!!

    That’s when I truly understood the meaning of ‘no contact’. What narcs fear most is to be ignored, and to be forgotten. And that is exactly what we need to do!!

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Absolutely the case.

      1. Matilda says:

        yes, sadly so…

  15. Loving the Silent Treatment says:

    So very true. Last weekend i told my narc that what he said to me crush my heart and soul. He said nothing, the smirk on his face told me everything. I think we are both giving each other the silent treatment.

    1. Hello ‘loving the silent treatment.’ Interesting name! 😀
      I’ve noticed alot of pple incorporate the word ‘narc’ into their name, like ‘narcangel’, ‘anarcsnightmare’, ‘nomorenarc’, ‘neveragainnarc’, ‘noteverinyourdreamsnarc’, ptsdafternarcabuse'(me), etc. Ok i’m exaggerating a little with a few names! 😆
      If you are new here, then welcome!
      Your name is interesting!

  16. Adele says:

    No contact is the only way but very difficult. Thats where having a therapist helps so much. Ive not got to that point yet but from all ive read and watched on u tube same thing over and over…no contact. Its so difficult to cut someone you love deeply out of your life completely and never look back

  17. luckyotter says:

    Oh, there’s plenty I could vent about, but am in a positive frame of mind right now and don’t want to get myself upset or triggered, but I will share this post today and spread the word around to give others a chance. Have a great day!

  18. frances low says:

    I have no contradiction to what you say… it just confused me where at the end of the first podcast of yours I listened to I thought I heard you say narcs wanted us to get emotional so they can use it against us? What about if one loves and respects their feelings, tears and emotions. It took me 62 years to open up and love them? I am so grateful to knowing them.

    Sent from my iPhone


    1. HG Tudor says:

      Hello Frances, the love and respect that you show is positive fuel and will of course be welcomed by our kind.

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