The Narcissistic Truths – No. 156


130 thoughts on “The Narcissistic Truths – No. 156

  1. Entertainment says:

    Amber ,
    All is well, I pray everything is fine with you and family. I think God is still in the business of healing and I pray that your son is healed from the top of his head to the souls of his feet. Hugs

    1. Amber says:

      Entertainment, aww thank you so very much. I’ve struggled really hard, every day, to figure out the line between being as agreeable as possible, and not enabling. I memorized the desiderata at about ten years old so i think it helped. God bless you. ๐Ÿ˜Š๐Ÿ’–๐ŸŒน

  2. Powerful meme, HG!

  3. E. B. says:

    Shame is not innate. We are not born with it, HG.
    It has been ingrained into our minds by narcissistic parents who wanted to control us.
    I know that it is easier said than done because I am struggling with it too but we have to give it back to whom it belongs. It doesn’t belong to us.

  4. Twilight says:

    The means justify the ends

    Or do I misunderstand this statement HG?

  5. AH says:

    Matilda..& HG.. perhaps he was in therapy because it was his stage to gain even more fuel?

    1. Matilda says:

      I can’t tell for sure, AH, but I do not get the impression that HG likes being in therapy… the good doctors like to dig deep, and the constant ‘why’s irritate the most.

      1. AH says:

        I would imagine they hate therapy too, for fear they would be unmasked.. But… with the ones who can fool everyone – the oscar-winning covert.. imagine the glorious fuel they get when they have fooled those very people whose job it is, to unmask the issue?

      2. Matilda says:

        Yes, some narcs are so good at acting, that the “therapist” re-traumatizes the victim by blame shifting.

  6. Matilda says:

    You know that you will have to free the creature and DEAL WITH IT sooner or later. Your method is not sustainable.

    Perhaps this current soft-touch approach is not the way to bring it about, perhaps the proverbial sledgehammer is needed in your case!

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Why is it not sustainable? It has worked effectively so far.

      1. Matilda says:

        Well, I posit that if it had been entirely effective, you would not have been subjected to therapy (regardless of the specific circumstances you might write about in one of your next books). You would have remained under the radar.

        To me, at least, this indicates that your condition is worsening to a degree others start to notice, which makes your method less effective, and consequently, unsustainable in the long run.

        1. Amber says:

          Not to get too spiritual here, but the world is shifting, so it’s entirely possible he’s awakening and using his true strength to break from the chains, rather than be a victim to them any longer. The universe sends out burts of energy as it readies us to face the next great wave of challenges. ๐Ÿ’œ

      2. Flickatina says:

        Because ultimately it will destroy you. You have no freedom. This will lead to self-destruction.

        We, who have faced our demons and beaten them, are free.

      3. sarabella says:

        I always think its a Christian belief in heaven and hell that leads people to say this or to an emparh who hasn’t accepted the reality of a narc’s mindset. Why doesn’t a narc want to be…. good? To heal? To embrace truth? The empathy trap. It is sustainable to them, just not to us. We know what they are missing. And they know we don’t know how good it works for them. Hence why we get so trapped. Sustainable to who and by what definition or reality?

        1. Amber says:

          Sorry, i have to respond one more time. Yes it is for those of us who are Christians i think who wrestle with just abandoning them to their fate due to the duty to save that complicates matters. I cry when hg insists it must be done, as if we have to push a man overboard at sea who’s carrying a knife trying to puncture our life raft, to save ourselves. Sure, maybe it has to be done, but it’s like the scene in titanic when she let’s jack drown to save herself. Is there really no other way? I’m sorry. I could study and discuss good and evil for hours. Also, my intro re christianity was only because that’s the religion I’m most familiar with. No offense intended to anyone of any other faith. ๐Ÿ™‚

      4. Matilda says:

        It works for now.

        But remove one vital element from this artificial construct, such as youth, social status, wealth, health, virility etc., and it WILL come crashing down! Suddenly and violently, with no alternative in place, because the narc in his magical thinking lacked the foresight and insight that life simply is not predictable!!

        1. HG Tudor says:

          One items will not cause the collapse. It may cause it to being to crumble and thus remedial action is taken.

          1. MLA - Clarece says:

            Matilda – HG’s covers this at length in Revenge when discussing the different “pillars” that build the construct. It is why I loved that book so much because even to not pursue actual Revenge, it is crucial information to know about the facade that holds them together.

          2. HG Tudor says:

            Very much the case Clarece.

          3. BraveHeart says:

            Honestly, I never thought there was a reason for me to read Revenge because I never planned on taking out revenge on the ex-MN; however, with what you just said about it, Clarece, I think it would definitely be wise for me to do so. Thank you for the insight and thank you, HG, for all you have done thus far with all of your works.

          4. HG Tudor says:

            You are welcome BH.

          5. MLA - Clarece says:

            I cannot stress enough how I found the information in that book so crucial in understanding the different “pillars” they use to build their fortress around their inner sanctum. You do not need to seek revenge at all however I found it vitally important in how I started changing how I reacted to JN when he did hoover several times this past year. Read it for the sake of just building your defenses up. Go for it!!

          6. BraveHeart says:

            I promise I will – the more defenses the smarter and stronger we’ll be ๐Ÿ’ช๐Ÿค“๐Ÿ’ช

      5. Matilda says:

        It is not unheard of that incidents beyond our control start a chain reaction that can hardly be stopped, if at all… but if you believe that you have had everything under control so far, and you will have everything under control henceforth… fine.

      6. Matilda says:

        Thank you for your tip, Clarece, I appreciate it! ๐Ÿ™‚

  7. Susan says:

    HG, Do you think that Maybe the devaluation period may be instigated because the Narc instinctively wants to hide his or her shame ? In other words devalues the person before they will devalue him/ her. They never believe subconsciencely , that Anyone will accept them because they were never really accepted as children . The shame has so infiltrated their being that they have to protect themselves at any cost .
    Just a thought

    1. HG Tudor says:

      It is feasible. Not something I have experienced but then if it is subconscious I would not do so. I enter devaluation because I have been let down by someone who once promised so much.

      1. Susan says:

        I truly mean no disrespect when I say this but how can that be? You know what you are doing. You go into it fully understanding that your expectations of a person are unreasonable. You are an extremely intelligent person who can acutely describe what, why and how you do what you do.. there has to be something more.. Maybe I just can’t seem to grasp your explanation…(I believe you are being as honest as you can) like I said… no disrespect.

    2. Alissa says:


  8. Claire says:

    Shame is an awful feeling. It cuts deep and really really hurts.

  9. Amber says:

    I’m afraid i cant see an article, but i wanted to leave a recommendation on a book used by a therapist for a former partner to heal sex addiction, which is something like Healing the Shame the Binds Us,or something. Apparently it is at the root of a great many issues in the psyche. God bless. ๐Ÿ’œ

  10. The design of your kind does not has shame. You turned this blog into a bug zapper to catch human targets and to my surprise they are eager to get zapped! Congrats Mr. Robot! you are fulfilling your purpose perfectly

    1. Amber says:

      I’m not sure what your expertise is in, but the very core of an npd persona is a raw ball of exquisite pain, shame, self-loathing, low self esteem, regret (although in a different way than we may experience it as remorse, i think), and an incredible child like need to be loved and accepted unconditionally and at any cost. Idk what you think he is zapping, or why, but if by zap, you mean educate, inform, and assist, then, yes, he is. ๐Ÿ™‚

      1. sarabella says:

        People think because they currently behave so shamelessly and without conscience that they don’t feel shame. They may not feel it, this is true. Because everything is geared to keep it at bay. But its in there I believe. Deeply buried but its there. The empath’s great mistake is to believe we can help do anything about it. And we inadvertently always bring it out in them. If empaths are drawn to Narcs in part to conquer their own past, narcs are drawn to us in order to exercise their great machinations to keep it at bay. Its like we continue to inoculate them. Otherwise, why don’t they just go to people who are flat and shallow, who. never trigger them, stick with their own kind ? Because they need us to help continue to keep all that sh*t suppressed or it will come pouring out. They control us as a way to control themselves. Bizarre.

        1. Amber says:

          You’re lovely, sarabella. Inoculation isn’t a concept i considered before but it fits perfectly. I think the unconditional love we can offer actually constantly fights the demons that pursue them, and so they may seek solace in the love that will provide respite from the bitter flame of their inner heart, which speaks lies to them about themselves and others. Unfortunately, they can’t actually accept real truth, just the facade of it as it appeals to who they want to believe they are, and so if someone gets too close to the actual truth, they seem to devalue and discard in search of a better “yes man”. What’s funny is that a truly internally successful man will seek someone who will help him legitimately grow, and a narc will only seek a mirror with a favorable reflection. Like have you ever seen a pic and thought you looked awful in it, so you had it retaken? Lol i feel that’s what they do, but with human hearts on occasion. “Oh this one reflects truth. Let me find one who only tells me false praise all day, which will actually lead to my own demise and possibly others.” ๐Ÿ™‚ i have to stop reading these articles and comments. They’re fascinating. Lol

          Btw, hg, none of my comments about those with npd are directed at you, even slight of hand. (Not that you care!) I know you know this, but i wanted to point it out. I would never disrespect you in public, much less in your own forum. I’m only speaking of the ones I’ve known in personal relationships, of course.

          1. Entertainment says:

            If HG offered posts of the day awards you are the winner. On point๐Ÿ†๐Ÿ†. Done with eloquence and grace.

          2. Amber says:

            Entertainment, tyvm. I have a minimum of five narcissists in my life and so have been studying it for awhile. I think it’s fascinating because at the crux of it is the dilemma of whether any of us are either intrinsically good or evil, or whether it’s just a matter of how attached we are to our souls. And i think it’s become too easy to judge those who have npd etc because then we have a scapegoat for the ills of humanity instead of realizing much of this is quite possibly science, and if that is the case, a much bigger moral dilemma then comes into play because it calls into question whether we are punishing people for decades, for life, or even through the death penalty, for brain disorders for which they cannot help themselves? And so i constantly study the concept of evil. This doesn’t relate to what you said, necessarily. I have add. Lol ๐Ÿ’–

          3. Entertainment says:


            I appreciate your comment. I left a comment prior to reading this how funny. I really feel the same, I commented on a earlier post something. It was about our acceptance of other mental health behaviors. Our expectations of a person with a diagnosis with mental retardation are not the same as a person without. I understand that after being entangled with a person with npd it’s extremely confusing, crazy, and depressing. Countless other side effects some extremely detrimental. However, once we ascertain what they are why still all the hate and continued war against all narcotics.
            I personally feel and have witnessed here we all grieve differently, it depends where we are in the process. In my experience the level of expectations and relationship with the person may determine how we decide to forgive and move forward. Hopefully, I am making sense monkey brain is in full effect. I think I have taken in more of my share today.

      2. Entertainment says:

        I am caught in the wasp nest. Wait, new technology allows us to become zapped. I guess I am zapped. I never looked at it from that perspective. I am gradually coming around and have made substantial progress in healing, strength, and knowledge; with out no reservations I can attribute part of it to HG posts and books. It doesn’t matter what others think I would be remiss not give him credit for seizing the power over the NPD’s in my life.

        1. Amber says:

          It’s exactly how i feel. I’ve been in counseling for thirty years yet he offers a miraculous view straight into the belly of the beast. Lol and he doesn’t pray on us. So we are blessed. I’m getting tired. Hope you’re well. Hugs

  11. HG, If you were to move far away from your family & childhood environment, maybe across your country. Do you think you’d be able to freshly reboot your life and move forward without feeling shame? Remember, none of the childhood abuse is your fault.
    You should never be ashamed of things you had no control of. You were a victim.

    You teach us to go No Contact – and it makes our lives much better once we learn to seize the power … would going No Contact be helpful for you?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Interesting point Hopeful but no it would not. I do not see much of family now anyway and my needs for fuel would not be altered by such a change.

  12. Kat Huff says:

    HG, shame is cast upon us by someone else, we don’t own shame. It doesn’t belong to us but to the one pointing. In the past, childhood perhaps, we can easily take ownship of something that isn’t ours, never was ours. That pointing finger/word/action belongs to the pointer. Don’t accept, don’t oblige. Shame can only cut like a knife if we accept the shame as ours, if we decide to own it, to pick it up and to carry it.

    1. Kat Huff says:

      When I say us I mean all people, not dividing into categories here. No us vs them, your kind vs that kind, endless division, etc. The finger of shame can come from someone else or our own hand.

  13. Sarabella says:

    This is also how the narc controls the empath. All humans have some shame. But some have it far more deeply felt and unacknowledged than others. Some are more susceptible to ‘feeling’ the overall shame of humanity. The suck it up like a sponge, even from the Narc, even what is not theirs. So part of the whole narc/empath dance is to get the empath to be the holder of the shame. By growing it in her. Not all narcs know they are doing this huge dance of shame management though. The mechanism is in place. Criticism pokes the shame, so the narc runs around looking for a way to offload it. And fast. Empath, always the healer and more sensitive one and sponges it up until it starts to eat her up. The Narc knew I had shame about one part of my life. So he used that every time to control me. The difference between he and I is that I know where HIS shame is. I know it very well. But I never used it to control him even subtly. I felt love between people had the capability to heal the shame through acceptance. Not.

    1. Amber says:

      That’s such a great point. Trying to soak it up, in our case, in order to deny theirs so they suffer less. I love that. Very profound. Yet it will perversely only make them hate us more if we do. Isn’t that funny? Not funny haha, funny weird. ๐Ÿ™‚

    2. AH says:

      Profound, indeed, Sarabella. Peace to you.

    3. Susan says:

      Insightful explanation Sarabella! I think my comment would integrate well with what you said. I mentioned that maybe the reason for Discard to be initiated is so that the Narcs shame isn’t exposed. From what HG has explained, it is shame that he has to extinguish at all costs. He can’t let it rear its ugly head…. so he Discards you before you can see/expose his shame. Because re-living the pain of rejection is the ultimate pain. Stopped at all costs.

    4. E. B. says:

      Sarabella and Susan,
      Your comments are very interesting. Narcissists who wanted to have some sort of โ€œrelationshipโ€ (a friendship, a business relationship, an intimate relationship) with me but noticed that I was not interested in it used some of their tools (humiliating/mocking/ridiculing/laughing at me in public, smears and character assassination) with the purpose to make me feel ashamed by *apparently* being rejected by everyone (โ€œNobody likes you. Everybody hates/rejects youโ€.) This is ridiculous because they do not know me at all. There was never a relationship in the first place.

      My narcissistic parentsโ€™ life theme was โ€œavoiding feeling shame at all costs when being/feeling rejected by othersโ€. They saw other people they were interested in having a relationship with as a friend or a foe and nothing in the middle. For instance, if they wanted to be friends with someone and that individual did not show any interest in them, then they automatically rejected them as in โ€œIt is me who is rejecting you so I do not have to feel the deep shame of being rejected (by you)โ€.

      All of us coming from dysfunctional families feel some shame, but I think that people in the Cluster B spectrum experience it 10 times more than we do. If someone does not want to have a relationship with me, I accept and respect their decision and do not start a war to destroy them. However, this seems to be extremely painful and unbearable for people with a NPD/BPD/ASPD/HPD. This is just my experience.

  14. AH says:

    HG. Do you have any knowledge of ‘organic portals?’ If so, what are your thoughts on that?

    Also, what would be the very first thing an empath could do to recognize a narc, if in fact they are concerned that someone is one?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      I don’t AH and the mind boggles at what they might be.

      See the articles about flushing us out.

      1. AH says:

        Thank you. I have read the article and it provides some great tips. I actually posted a comment which is awaiting moderation. I’m very anxious to find out your response.

  15. Karin says:

    I know this shame and it ignites my fury. It releases the borderline qualities I typically suppress. You call the narcissist’s inner wounded child “the creature”. I shall consider a name for the borderline’s. Perhaps, “the serpent”?

    Someone on a separate thread suggested finding new ways to describe these personality styles and disorders. Much nuance is lost when you stamp a label on something. It also dehumanizes.

    Humans are emergences; ever-changing constellations of traits and behaviors. Our conditioning keeps us in specific orbits.

    Shifts are possible. Just very very hard. Unwavering vigilance is required.

    1. Sunshine says:

      That is still quite an optimistic outlook, Karin. I fear many narcs are narcs because of genetics; they have inherited a set of genes that direct their personality in certain ways. That doesn’t mean there isn’t an external / environmental connection, but that the traits were always there and always will be.

      1. Amber says:

        Ty for this. I’ve watched my middle child be born with it and grow up with it, and it frustrates me a great deal to keep having this issue rehashed by others over the concept of a wound of the ego. He was exhibiting signs before a year of age. I am frustrated with the effects it causes in raising a child with it, yet feel that he’s still such a delight and joy that i wouldn’t trade him for the world. ๐Ÿ™‚ and i have lately drawn the conclusion that we as mothers would be horrified at casting such harsh words on children with autism, yet those with npd seem to exhibit an emotional form of autism, if that makes sense. I hope I’m not offending anyone… i just don’t know a better way at 4am to describe it after being sick all day and having nightmares from the other two narcissists in my life. ๐Ÿ˜†

      2. Sunshine says:

        Oh Amber, I really feel for you. With a child, you’ll never get a diagnosis. You will just be fobbed off with the usual ‘all children are narcissistic’. Could you try the route of an autism diagnosis? There could be a link as you say.

        You have to parent 100 times more with a child narc. It’s very complicated. Enough attention, but not too much. Firm boundaries, without being too strict or authoritarian. I feel for you.

        Just be consistent and try to find that middle ground between permissive parenting and authoritarian parenting. Demonstrate empathy wherever you can.

        Although your son may not have suffered a wound to his ego, children do seek to emulate the ‘strongest’ parent or carer in their life – even if that person does bad things. So around your son, try to appear resilient in the face of difficult times. Demonstrate constructive ways of dealing with issues. Hopefully, he will mirror you, because your inner strength will be apparent.

        1. Amber says:

          Ty, sunshine, so much. He was actually informally diagnosed at six by a domestic violence counselor who was seeing me and both children after the divorce. She taught him self calming and anger management techniques, as well as visualization of others feelings. However, there’s little that can be done to TEACH empathy. As the saying goes, “I can explain it to you. I cant understand it for you.” ๐Ÿ™‚ so i have recognized for years that i have to explain what other people feel, to him, in more detail than my other children. Also, i have to discipline him without any expectation of him understanding or caring about the consequences of his actions so far as how they affect others. Instead what helps him is learning to make rational decisions based on what the consequences will be for him that he wants to avoid. For example, he doesn’t really “get” (or seems to care about) is that if he does a, b, or c, that it’ll hurt another child’s feelings. However, he does understand that if he hurts their feelings, he won’t get invited to play anymore, which is a consequence he doesn’t want, because he loves playing. So i cant get to the deeper level of understanding compassion with him, but i can work with him at the level he does understand. Re being tested for autism, yes my current domestic violence counselor did suggest that. However he’s never had any symptoms of autism. He is very loving and kind to me, his father, and his older brother, and knows how to act sociable with others. But he doesn’t really care about them. In fact he brags about his narcissistic nature, although he doesn’t know this word. I’m just paraphrasing. But there is hope since he got counseling early, and i try to have a stable, happy home life. ๐Ÿ™‚

          1. MLA - Clarece says:

            Hi Amber,
            I applaud your efforts, your patience, and your compassion to relentlessly pursue a way to communicate with your son at his most formidable years. It will make a difference – with your family, and for all the people who will come into his life into adulthood. And maybe he can’t have empathy. But, he will have understanding and hopefully a more peaceful existence with his relationships.

      3. E. B. says:


        Hello Amber, there is a book which includes some information (not a lot but at least something) about signs of anti-social traits/behaviour in children: The Empathy Trap โ€“ Understanding Anti-Social Personalities by Dr Jane McGregor and Tim McGregor. Chapter 7 โ€“ “What if you suspect your child has sociopathic traits”. They speak about children with โ€œcallous unemotional traitsโ€. They are insensitive to punishment and show/feel not fear because they are driven by reward. As for what to do, it is suggested that parents increase their physical contact and make more eye contact with their child because those callous unemotional traits in children are not irreversible. They also mention two films “We Need to Talk about Kevin” and “The Good Son”. Hope your son does not have callous unemotional traits.
        I think you are doing a great job, Amber.

  16. Twilight says:

    This is where the co dependent and narcissist come from the same beginnings yet chose different paths. You become the doers we become the done to taking the mantle of one half of a whole.
    The need to consume the half you do not have and to be consume by the half we don’t have.

  17. Entertainment says:

    HG, again this is about a person that can is ashamed about something they may have done but not the same as regret. As a self-conscious emotion, shame informs you of your internal state of inadequacy, unworthiness, or dishonor which others may or may not be aware. Thus, the fury is ignited in you as a defense mechanism to not feel inadequate because your deceived perception is you are superior. Am, I close?๐Ÿ˜Š

    1. HG Tudor says:

      There is certainly force in what you write Entertainment.

  18. Debbie says:


    Does the empath distract you from feeling shame that is ‘ever present.’ So that even when the empath is doing nothing is your own boredom that lets the shame be less quelled at the time?
    Thus the critisism is (in your perception) the empath not keeping you distracted well enough? And the punishments are doled out.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      It is the criticism which brings the shame to the fore. The failure by a source to do something (even though from their perspective they do not consider that they have done anything wrong) may well be perceived by us as criticism. This makes us feel unimportant, weak, wretched and so forth which is a direct link to the shame we wish to ignore and bury. In order to banish that shame (which is behind the sense of being wounded) we seek fuel and usually through the ignition of fury.

      1. Debbie says:

        Ok..thank you HG for explaining it. That is thought provoking and very helpful.

  19. NumbShell says:

    This is so confusing. If you can feel shame as a result of the abuse you suffered, how could you not feel shame/guilt for those you inflict abuse upon?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Because one appertains to the creature which I reject. The other relates to the construct which I embrace.
      Thus criticism reminds me of the helplessness which I once felt and thus revisits the shame.
      Abusing others causes no sense of shame because it is necessary for my existence through the provision of fuel.
      One is being done to – which is something I reject, the other is the doing, which I embrace.

      1. NumbShell says:

        Thank you kindly for your response. I didn’t think your kind felt any shame whatsoever. Is it safe to assume your NPD developed as a result of this shame and sense of helplessness?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Yes. The book Your Fault goes into more detail on this.

      2. Sunshine says:

        In other words, your current narc self is a rejection of an earlier self; a self who was damaged and felt intolerable shame.

        You talk of fuel being necessary for your existence. Reading between the lines, it is only necessary for the continued existence of your current narc self.

        Perhaps it is possible to revert to a form of your earlier self; but with stronger, healthier boundaries and protection mechanisms that do not leave you “being done to.”

        Believe it or not, HG, it is possible to be a very strong and resilient ‘normal’ or ’empath’. The survival mechanism of narcissism isn’t actually necessary, when you are provided with the right help.

      3. MLA - Clarece says:

        Although you reject the Creature, it is still a part of you at your core. The “doing” that you embrace gets absorbed by the Creature like a vacuum just like it began to absorb all the abuse Little HG suffered. The doctors are probably trying to integrate this for you because no matter how defined, it’s all being absorbed in you like a pressure cooker and will one day erupt. That can be harmful to you. It can be harmful to others.

      4. Braveheart says:

        With that said, HG,(btw, you don’t need to answer by earlier question. This one answers it.), could it possibly mean (when I set a deadline for the ex-MN to change his life for us the way he had been promising to do for nearly 5 years) that deep down inside, he felt the same helplessness he did when he was younger and not because of our relationship in general? When I set the deadline, I know he had to have felt wounded and criticized, but I’ve often wondered if it was because of that helplessness feeling. Hope that makes sense.

      5. NumbShell says:

        Thank you. I have all of your paperbacks on order. It may have been worth while to cross the pond to get them – lol. I do hope that all of your books can be found in paperback and the US soon.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Thank you. You won’t be disappointed.

  20. katanon666 says:

    I sensed this in my narc. He would now and then make comments that affirmed my empathic impression of that feeling in him. He had a very troubled childhood and relationship with his Mother. Of course, getting any specifics from him was few and far between and had to be of his own volition to disclose. I suppose that is ultimately what made me stay as long as I did. I thought I could help him. I could not. Nobody can, he simply will not allow it. It makes me sad to think about it. He could be such a wonderful person if he would allow it. He had many wonderful qualities but used them for evil…sad.

    1. Shirin says:

      Yes, this is exactly how I feel about him katanon666

  21. Supernova says:

    What About thought field therapy, Dr. Roger Callahan. $10.00 book, for healing?

  22. Sunshine says:

    HG. Would you agree with any or all of the following in regards to the shame of narcissists:

    1. Shame is all about self-pity. It is: “oh and I have to live with what I’ve done for the rest of my life, poor me!” (As opposed to: “oh and I have hurt and abused that person, they must be suffering so”)

    2. Shame is a great opportunity for a pity-party, appearing vulnerable and seeking sympathy and attention from other people.

    3. Shame cannot be tolerated. “If I feel shame, it is your fault. I will punish you for making me feel ashamed. Let the silent treatment commence.”

    4. Shame won’t stop you. For your need to have the upper hand and control overrides any negative throwback.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      1. No. I do not care.

      2. For some of my kind, yes.

      3. Agreed.

      4. Agreed.

      1. Laurie says:

        Re: 3, it’s astounding to me how individuals with your level of intelligence ( and my experience with narcs has been almost exclusively with Greaters so I have seen this a lot) cannot seem to get that this shame you feel that you also feel we triggered has nothing to do with anything we did and is ” your shit” as the phrase goes. I can only conclude that your childhood wounding was so severe that it caused a sort of freezing of your enormous cognitive functions. I have heard it theorized that the codependent, despite his own wounding, is a stronger individual internally but it certainly makes sense in terms of my own family of origin issues.

      2. Alissa says:

        I have often felt overwhelming shame after being with the narc. I know that’s what he enjoys me feeling. My question is, isn’t the shame possibly from early childhood? Have your good doctors uncovered some kind of serious neglect or sexual abuse in your childhood? Just curious

  23. ava101 says:

    Echo and Narciss. ๐Ÿ˜‰

  24. tigerlilly34 says:

    My ex N Husband who has now passed away once out of nowhere mentioned he wished his parents where dead. Among many others under his breath mentioned how he wanted his ex buried. It came to pass that would be my fate also it came down to my life or his I chose mine. This was before I met the mother. After meeting his mother any slight or innocent thing I mentioned she would attack. It was our sons christening she asked for blue icing they decorated it yellow and she snapped threw a cup at my head 3 stiches. This little old English lady from isles of wight had another side. He mentioned a rape from a member of the church when he was 8 his mother used the church as the faรงade. He was adopted she never told him he found out at 17. Yet if I ever mentioned his mothers behaviour it was like I was attacking him personally. He had such contempt for woman yet his mother was the bees nees bizarre .Can you explain this H.G ?

  25. Marusca Maria says:

    well i would rather call it: humanity’s shame. we are all to be shamed.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      That is an interesting observation MM, would you expand on that?

      1. ava101 says:

        Have you watched the first episode of Star Trek The Next Generation?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          No I haven’t ava101, what happens?

      2. ava101 says:

        It’s where Cpt. Picard gets put to trial for the crimes and immorality of humanity by Q. Q is an immortal, almighty, incredibly bored being (he’s my favorite character). One could call him a bit narcissistic. He enjoys playing with humans very much.
        However, Q is on his throne above the heads of everyone else, and what Picard has to justify has a lot to do with shame. I actually don’t remember what Picard says to save them, but it has to do with humans being able to learn, to evolve, behaving ethical, and such like. They get a test then (and pass). But this theme is followed through all seasons.
        Just came to my mind, also when you postet your judge post previously.

  26. 1jaded1 says:

    Another revealing and brave post in very few words.. In your other posts, you talk about never feeling regret or being sorry. The shame must trump all of it. I can only imagine MatriNarc saying her horrible words, possibly followed up by actions, all for the purpose of shaming little HG. Neither you nor he is a dunce and don’t you ever forget it.

    Did a session with your doctors inspire this?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Thank you Jaded. The shame is an unwelcome reminder and driver of a number of things and as I have learnt, has been rooted deep in past actions. Shame is what drives the wounding which occurs when I am criticised. The good doctors attempts to address what has gone on causes repeated episodes of shame to manifest and sometimes leads to a stand-off between us.

      1. Sunshine says:

        Criticism is the opportunity to grow as a person; and create more authentic relationships.

      2. Sunshine says:

        And shame is your trigger notification that learning is required.

        Do not be afraid of shame; embrace it. It is trying to teach you to do something differently next time.

      3. Smoke says:

        So you actually feel shameful for your actions toward others? deceit, cheating and lying, etc….

        1. HG Tudor says:

          No, the shame is embedded in the past and criticism brings that shame to the fore. That shame is from someone else, someone I do not recognise nor will I, but the traitors insist on trying to remind me of him and thus the fury is ignited by way of defence. I feel no shame for the way I treat people.

      4. MLA - Clarece says:

        How do the doctors positively reinforce these attempts to end the stand-offs? I can see where they would view this as progress actually getting you to acknowledge and feel anything. It’s opening a gateway to your True Self under the construct that has been silenced and deserves it’s voice to be heard.

      5. 1jaded1 says:

        You are welcome, HG. Thank you for the response. It makes perfect sense.

        1. HG Tudor says:


      6. Anna says:

        Just came across this and exactly 1 year after you wrote this. Although narcissists often lie this is very much the truth. I’ve seen the shame (and the fear) and I was even told how at the core of the narcissists behavior is the shame you and other narcissists carry. Thank you for sharing this.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          You are welcome.

  27. Sunshine says:

    Whose shame?

    1. HG Tudor says:


      1. Cara says:

        Yup. My mother has enough shame to hang on me, my sisters, my father. That’s not to say my sisters and I don’t in turn hang that shame (and our own) on others. Father just sort of sits in his shame chair, he’s not like us.

      2. Hurt says:

        Who is ours? The narcs?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          I don’t follow.

      3. Sunshine says:

        And so how do you deal with that shame?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          By locking it away and reacting to its reappearance through criticism by the ignition of fury.

    2. jarwithaheavylid says:

      Yes, it’s easily confused, isn’t it. ๐Ÿ™‚

      1. Marusca Maria says:

        hahahahahahahaah… trying to get a clear answer out of a narc??

        1. jarwithaheavylid says:

          No, I mean the narc projects the shame but you’re only in this relationship to relive your own childhood shame. But you’ve also taken on the narc’s. It’s purely a shame game – you are not enough – and you never will be.

        2. Cara says:

          I’ll give you a clear answer…just not one you’ll like

  28. jarwithaheavylid says:

    It’s always a projection of the shame.
    It’s always the disowned shame.
    It’s always your shame.

  29. Shirin says:

    Hi HG;
    You really got my attention ๐Ÿ™‚ And I’d like to thank you for making us -people trying to survive after meeting your kind- understand. Because sometimes “knowing is much more important then anything else.” I first met you by your radio interview then found you on social media and finally your blog here. I’m impressed… Your voice, your tone, your use of words, listening skills and witty but sincere replies made me admire you for who you’re. I am reading your posts and comments very carefully and they are helping me a lot. Many questions are popping in my mind. If I may, I’d like to ask two of them. But before hand please accept my a apology for my English as it is my second language.1) Have you ever recall the times, moments that you weren’t or -hadn’t turn out to be a narcissist yet?- Do you remember how it felt? And my 2nd question , if I mask ask, would be…”can you talk about GOD figure, spirituality or beliefs in terms of religion, life after, hell or heaven among your kind?
    Thanks in advance,

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Hello Shirin, thank you for your kind words and my compliments on your standard of English.

      1. I can recall but it is not something that I prefer to do. It usually occurs as a consequence of the questioning of the good doctors or on the blog.

      2. I can of course talk about such things if I regard doing so as serving my purpose.

      1. Marusca Maria says:

        have you ever be in love? as: loving a woman above your Narcissistic instinct? Or do you have desire to be in ‘serious love’ with a woman .. without the deceit and triangulation?
        I am also not English. so excuse my English.. I am Italian but I live in England for a long time

        1. HG Tudor says:

          My compliments on your English MM. I though I knew love, but I did not. I understand that now. I am not capable of it, therefore I have no desire for it.

      2. Shirin says:

        Thank you for your reply, HG.
        After all the pain and heart break I thing should be hating my ex. but I don’t ….instead I am hating the people who caused him to become a narcissist. Which, in his case, was his mother. I so sorry for the little boy he used to be. Can’t avoid myself of thinking all the pain and helplessness he had to endure before becoming a narcissist. Anyway it’s too late. I have no intention getting in contact with him in anyway ever again. I want him to be well and happy and away from me. I’ll learn to live with this heart brake and shame. Yes, the I too believe that we should be ashemed of…
        Wish you a pleasant evening…

        1. HG Tudor says:


      3. Love says:

        Hi Shirin. Welcome sweetness.
        Great name. ๐Ÿ˜‰

  30. Jreck says:

    What is the shame. My shame or yours? Not sure I understand this one.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Our shame Jreck.

      1. ava101 says:

        And then you pull a dwarf’s pointy hat over your head?

      2. Marusca Maria says:

        ”our” as in: our Narcs shame?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Yes it is the narc’s shame.

      3. Braveheart says:

        HG, does your shame come from your childhood or what you do now? Or both? How would you describe your shame? Mine would be the fact that I shared so much of myself (mentally, emotionally, physically, spiritually, etc.) with the Narc, not realizing at the time that he cared about none of it. It still, at times, feels like a punch in the gut.

        1. HG Tudor says:


  31. sarabella says:

    Your shame, or the shame you grow in others?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Our shame.

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