The Narcissistic Truths – No. 20


104 thoughts on “The Narcissistic Truths – No. 20

  1. noah80 says:

    This is just for me! I ignore him when he try to restablish a sex relationship with me… so he is offended with me and he adopted silent treatment…but… I don’t have interest πŸ˜‚ so i think that it is better that he understand that he can’t have me again for him! I’m free!

  2. ava101 says:

    I have learned that thoroughly through my exnarc, and I have made it a rule for myself to ignore anybody showing narcissistic traits and getting too close to me immediately.

    But, HG,
    I’m having a little problem here: as mini-narcs in a work related context as well as in a private context tend then to write message (e-mail, what’s app,…) after message, especially when never receiving an answer. I block where I can and send those messages automatically straight to deletion, but I cannot change my mail address for every mini-narc crossing my path (being a kind of narc magnet); and sometimes in a business context I cannot always completely ignore someone altogether.

    Any suggestion what I could tell them to stay away instead?

  3. Ms brown says:

    most all of us relapse at some point…. the important thing is to not let it happen again! And of course, Mr H is always here to advise πŸ€“

  4. 12345 says:

    Okay, so I got hoovered. 13 months almost to the day of discard. His discard was among the worst HG has ever described. I answered the phone going against everything HG has advised (sorry HG). I couldn’t stand it. I wanted to hear what he was going to say.

    Do you know what he said after I said “hello”??????? He said “I can’t believe you answered after having dumped me so brutally”. I forwarded him his final text to me in which he offloaded me after 3 months of the silent treatment over Christmas and my birthday. Me BEGGING him to PLEASE love me once more. THEN he proceeded to laugh at the text he sent and tell me I’m dramatic. He then said “I really thought you dumped me” with complete puzzlement in his voice. He then asked if I was pleased to hear from him and I said “yes” and he asked why. I then said that I was excited because I never imagined that the sound of his voice would be so repugnant to me and to please excuse me if I had to take the phone from my ear during our conversation because I was certain I was going to vomit. He laughed. I know that was fuel but I wanted to say it.

    He spent the next 20 minutes talking about himself. His vacations with his wife, his children, his grandchildren, EVERYTHING. Did not ask me one single question about me. I take that back…he asked if I had a new boss. This is where I got to really revel in his misery. I didn’t have to say one word except his name and then told him to Google him. He learned that my boss has 8 homes, 4 jets, earns 12 million dollars a year and is extremely powerful. He was audibly sick while reading aloud to me and then said “you always liked the powerful didn’t you”? My ex is a greater elite so I hope he hated reading about him.

    He said he wanted to come see me and make everything right because I knew in my heart that we belonged together. One of my chief complaints is that he never made the journey to come see me. It was always me making the effort. I said no. He said, “what if I just show up”? I said “that would be a huge mistake because I will then call your wife and see if she would like to speak with you”.

    He called me the next day and I DID NOT PICK UP!!! Yay!!!!!!! I imagined for 13 months that if he hoovered me I would go back to that quivering, heart racing, undeserving, love sick fool that felt unworthy of his call. Quite the opposite. Due to my education from HG my heart didn’t race, I felt deserving of much better, there was no love for him and I was worthy of so much more. I couldn’t believe it. It was the best surprise of my life. I’m so sorry this was so long. You’re my hero HG. Truly.

    1. MLA - Clarece says:

      Yay 12345 for getting Tudorized! I’m happy that felt so good to hear from him and get that confirmation that you moved past the point of sentimentality creeping in and letting him talk you into a visit.

      They truly underestimate the importance of letting too much time lapse allowing us to find them irrelevant. (Since they are only on “pause” while temporarily disengaging.)

      1. 12345 says:

        Thank you! I was genuinely surprised by my feelings. Best surprise ever!

    2. giulia says:

      Congratulations 12345, I must say though that those 13 months ipnotized me…that means I’m still “in the zone”. Last time I talked to him was five months ago, feels like the stone age to me….and one more thing: who is your boss??!!! Well done! πŸ‘πŸ˜‰

      1. 12345 says:

        Thank you! HG told me that we are never out of the “zone” but I didn’t believe it. He was right so brace yourself. My boss is awesome AND he’s a normal!

        1. KT says:

          And rich as an added bonus ; )

    3. Indy says:

      Woo hoo for not answering the second call and getting closure in the first!!! Brush your shoulders off and get on with your bad self!!! Go girl!

    4. gabbanzobean says:

      I’m happy for you. Jealous of your strength but happy for you nonetheless.

      And LOL that your narc has a wife too. Most of these fuckers are married aren’t they?

      It’s been 2 months of silence for me. Still wondering if I will ever get my Hoover. I too, am very tempted to apply what I’ve learned here. LOL but you telling him how his voice repulsed you! πŸ˜‚

      1. 12345 says:

        It will happen gabbanzobean. I wanted that, too. I thought I was the only girl alive that wouldn’t get hoovered. And I can’t really claim strength. I’m still angry at the truth of what he really is. I know I’m only as good as a toaster or a lawn mower to him so it was easier than I thought. I was still a basket case at two months. Give yourself time. Recovery from this is a bitch.

        1. gabbanzobean says:

          Right now it seems like it. I bet eventually I will post here about my first hoover. Or actually 2nd since I had no idea liking a photo on Instagram was considered a hoover but he hoovered that way about 2 months ago. (a week after he emailed me to say he needed “space”…lol).

          It has been crickets ever since!

          1. Jenna says:

            Gbean, even i was surprised when i found out that liking a pic on insta is a hoover. Rofl!!!

          2. gabbanzobean says:

            I asked HG if liking a picture on Instagram was considered a Hoover and he said yes it was! At the time I didn’t think it was, because after he liked the picture, nothing else happened afterwards. And this was after he told me to stop talking to him and leave him alone. LOL.

          3. Jenna says:

            Contradictions, contradictions, almost to the point of amusement!

    5. Jenna says:

      12345, i cannot believe he would not acknowledge that he discarded you. Talk about blame shifting! You seem so strong now! Excellent! πŸ‘πŸ‘πŸ‘

      1. 12345 says:

        Jenna, I was ready, I thought, for anything he might say. But to say I dumped him knocked me off my feet. The greaters are incredibly smart. They know exactly what will undo you.

        1. Jenna says:

          12345, wow, you were with a greater?! Is he like HG?

          1. 12345 says:

            Well, I don’t know if he’s like HG but, yes, he’s a greater. I’ve been involved with all three, lesser, mid-range and greater. The lesser is basically stupid in my opinion so you really end up with a large baby that treats you like shit. The mid-range is cruel and erupts at the drop of a hat. You’re in fight or flight the all the time. The greater…he is so smart it’s scary. He’s the most calculating person I’ve ever met and I could constantly tell that he was planning his next move. He would look at me and I would know it was coming. My punishments were ice cold and cruel beyond measure but not really volatile. He would become sinister and frightening in minutes but he always smiled while doing so. The devil takes all forms. Sometimes beautiful (which he could be) and sometimes sinister. I was waaaaay in over my head.

          2. Jenna says:

            Oh my goodness, greaters sound scary! But i’m not scared of you HG because you help us. 12345, your description of the lesser is too funny!

    6. NarcAngel says:

      Oh how I love revenge, so kudos on that, but the best part of your post I thought was:

      “I felt deserving of much better, there was no love for him and I was worthy of so much more”.

      Now hold to that.

  5. Sarah says:

    HG, is it common for narcissists to write stuff like RIP to celebrities they’ve never even met OR care about just to make it all about them? Turning misfortunes into something yet again about them, like writing long, moralistic spiels about terrorist attacks on their social media? If someone dies who is close to them, making it all about THEM? I feel this, I feel that, I think this?

    I presume this is another way of keeping the faΓ§ade in place. So annoying when you know it’s the total opposite of who they really are. I think HG’s honesty now, regardless of the reasons, is sexy as fuck. “This is who I am and this is what I do… deal with it.”

    1. HG Tudor says:


  6. HG, is it not often just the narcissists wrong perception of feeling he is being ignored, when in reality he is not?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      It is not wrong in our world, only yours. It is different perspectives.

  7. K says:


    Remember, think like a narcissist. I can feel your pique and frustration in your words and that is fuel.

    1. gabbanzobean says:

      LOL K…
      Thinking like a Narc makes my head hurt. Here’s my thought process: I re-read my words and now I’m like “oh F this shit!!!” He wants me to not talk to him? F that! I’ll talk to him anyways and it will piss him off! No wait, that will just give him fuel! Okay I’ll do as he says and ignore him. Oh wait that gives him fuel too! Because he knows I don’t want to ignore him. He knows how much his stance of “if you love me you won’t talk to me.” gets to me. So that too gives him fuel. Either way he gets fuel. Damned if I do, damned if I don’t I suppose. Meh.

      1. MLA - Clarece says:

        That’s why I didn’t care if I threw some fuel JN’s way, even with HG’s mentoring. If I needed to unleash to make MYSELF feel better, than I did it and F-you’s flowed. Released the pressure cooker in me.

        1. gabbanzobean says:

          I thought about “hoovering” him for his birthday next month but only because he did the same to me, after saying he did not want to talk to me. I hope that does not make me pathetic for stooping to his level. I am still ridiculously in love with him (rather the illusion of him) yet I also want to see him suffer. It’s like a scalding hot and icy cold variation of a water faucet in my brain. Jesus, I sound like a Narc myself! LOL.

          1. MLA - Clarece says:

            Pretend to send a “mistext” and don’t even acknowledge it’s his birthday. That’s how JN hoovered me for Mother’s Day. He sent a text like he was conversing with someone else and I randomly got:
            “Love my new fitbit, glad I didn’t get the Apple one. ”
            Then 10 seconds later…
            “Yikes, that’s embarrassing!
            Happy Mother’s Day”
            It was so backhanded too, because I’m sure he wasn’t talking fitbits with another guy to begin with. So he was trying to get me jealous and mess with my head for Mother’s Day.
            I vote for sending something random, but leave out the B-Day wishes. He’ll keep waiting for more and you can be like, “whoops, don’t know how that happened. Peace out.”

          2. gabbanzobean says:

            Oh my. I just got a huge flashback of how I actually did text him by accident once. He would probably view it as a legitimate mistake. But it wasn’t a wounding text and I did apologize for the error. Your suggestion sounds deliriously lovely! An idea I’ll consider. πŸ˜‰

          3. MLA - Clarece says:

            Hee, hee, hee. I fully admit, that for a large part of 9-10 months following HG’s blog, I kept interacting with JN when he would hoover to test out theories learned here or to test out to see if JN would respond in the manner HG would always predict. I had difficulty still believing he really was narcissistic to the level of being so harmful and it wasn’t just me going crazy. I would not recommend this to the majority. There was never a household, kids, money, etc., shared with him so I’m somewhat removed in that regard and he’s not violent. I do know I never have the worry of physical harm or stalking with JN so it didn’t bother me one bit to mess with him back when my confidence came back. I found it empowering actually.
            If you can mess with yours a bit for his birthday and truly have no expectation that anything new, different or better will come of it, then if it will make you feel better, go for it.

          4. Gabrielle says:

            I am about 2 months in being here and still struggle to believe it most days. I have had 1 1/2 email consults with HG which did help. I say 1/2 since I still have 2 questions left from the 2nd one that I did not use yet. LOL. I notice you referring to your Narc as “JN”. Mine is “JW”. To keep things as discreet as possible I wonder if our Narcs share the same first name. Anyway, I am in a similar boat as you. No kids, no expenses shared, no household (we were long distance). And no stalking or physical harm either. Actually the pleasantries were over the top, even when he was being manipulative and insulting he did it with such a “caring” and “polite” demeanor he had me still clinging to that “nice guy” persona. Mid range cerebral f**ker. LOL.

            Did HG theories show when you tested your Narc? I am dying to test theories if I am ever hoovered but for now I sit among the silence while he “focuses on his wife”. And as I have said many times oh how I wish I could be a fly on that wall!

          5. MLA - Clarece says:

            Over a one year span, HG predicted five out of five times that JN hoovered where I was convinced I had pushed him away for good. Then I would get scolded for just toying with JN with my new found knowledge engaging with him. lol. But it truly helped me, in my circumstance grasp the concept of these completely different “world views”. I seriously self-talk myself off the ledge sometimes using HG vocabulary, i.e., JN reacted this way because our “interests do not align”. Before I would rack my brain incessantly asking, why, why, why??!! Now I have legit lingo to stop my brain going in overdrive.
            Actually “JN” is derived from HG referring to mine as Junior Narc, when he found out that I was quite a bit older. πŸ˜‰

          6. HG Tudor says:


          7. MLA - Clarece says:

            OMG! Are you saying Bravo to your own uncanny correct predictions?

          8. gabbanzobean says:

            Oh damn, and here I thought that the J stood for the first name!

            And LOL at “Junior Narc”. I was the older one too, by 5 1/2 years! Yet he called ME “Kiddo”. then again he called everyone Kiddo. And “darling” too. πŸ™„

          9. Jenna says:

            Gbean, my ex is younger to me as well yet he says i have a childish mind! 😣

          10. gabbanzobean says:

            Mine said the same thing to me too. I’m starting to wonder if we were struck by the same narc bolt of lightning!! LOL.

          11. Jenna says:

            They think they’re so mature and that we’re immature. Yet they’re the ones with the emotional intellect/maturity of a child. No offense HG! πŸ˜‰

          12. gabbanzobean says:

            I am going to try to condense my replies to one….
            Re: Love Bombing joke…..I aim to please! LOL.
            Re: the childlike behavior: I think I shared that mine is a huge superhero nerd. Yes…..little child indeed!

            Re: the Instagram liking being a hoover! Who would have thought? And yes contradiction out the freaking wazoo!!!!!!

            Are you sure he would notice me unfollowing or blocking? He has over 2k friends on social media! 2 K!!!!!

            I am curious about this chemical reaction you speak of. I was so ridiculously addicted to my mid-ranger. To the point where I would interrupt conversation to kiss him. I was like a magnet drawn to that fucker. It was like he had some hypnotic power over me. I had to be as close to him as I possibly could, mentally, physically, sexually. It was insane, like I was snorting crack (I have never snorted crack but I am just using an addictive drug as a comparison to illustrate my point). I was so high on him and had never experienced an attraction like that with anyone else. Ever. It is sickening and maddening how much I still want him.

          13. Jenna says:

            Gbean, when we fall in love, there is a hormone/neurotransmitter called oxytocin which is released. When the narc withdraws frm us, we will go into oxytocin withdrawal effects. Thus, we need the narc more and more to get the oxytocin levels back up. It is just like a drug addiction. Research has found that oxytocin levels are highest in the first 6 months of a romantic relationship. If you would like to know more abt it, just google ‘oxytocin.’

          14. gabbanzobean says:

            Well that explains it! I am a year into it though and still crave him. Too bad all forms of street drugs are not legal….yet. I have such a void I need to fill that it is not even funny.

          15. MLA - Clarece says:

            Hi G-bean! I relate and identify with a lot of your feelings and was obsessed for a long time trying to scientifically understand the craving attraction I was experiencing. I spent a ridiculously large part of today trying to backtrack and find a thread I had with NarcAngel explaining a lot of the chemical hormones happening internally with the constant push pull.
            Can’t find it.
            So in the interim, until HG writes an article about it, I can direct you to two very informative places that I learned a lot from.
            “Women Who Love Psychopaths”, Sandra L. Brown. Chapter 9 – Intense Attraction, Attachment, & Bonding. The experience from our side with the addiction and craving is completely covered. Although we weren’t with Psychopaths, the similarities are close enough and allow for understanding and logic to set in.
            Secondly, the article I discovered that tipped me off that my relationship was abnormal, was an article in Psychology Today, February 2015, “12 Ways to Spot a Mysogonist”. The key element in that article was the discovery that a male releases the pleasure hormone dopamine when he HURTS his intimate partner stemming from his subconscious contempt and hatred of women. Sounds a lot like devaluing and getting negative fuel doesn’t it? Uh-huh.
            We release dopamine (bringing pleasure to our hearts and mind) following loving, bonding acts. It also gets released when we feel that rush of relief when they resurface after a month long silent treatment. It is highly addictive and gets absorbed into our cells creating that craving.
            So prepare yourself G-bean. It’s been 2 months NC. When yours finally Hoovers, that tidal wave of emotion you’ll stop dead in your tracks and feel, will be your brain erupting dopamine like a volcano. Don’t respond until you let that rush subside.
            Oh and the oxcytocin that Jenna wrote about, it’s found in semen. It is also called the “bonding hormone”. So having an orgasm with it inside of you creates the ultimate bonding and attachment experience for us, but not them, because they cannot emotionally attach.
            Now to HG. I’m officially putting a request for you to do an article from your perspective on the whole chemical, craving, affect the hormones play a role in these relationships. Dr. S never came through from back in Oct 2015 when I asked. Lol
            Also, in the book I referenced by Sandra Brown, she says the majority of doctors agree that a sociopath / psychopath has no ability to bond or attach. She calls a surface attachment a “tie” to someone and she feels they are capable of that because they exhibit desire for someone and that can be a surface connection. And anyone (normals) can experience a tie without love necessarily attached.
            Would you agree or disagree to that?

          16. ballerina9 says:

            @Clarece, is the thread about chemical & hormone reactions you couldn’t find in the comments of HG’S ‘STUCK’ article dated Feb 3rd 2017?

          17. MLA - Clarece says:

            YESSSS! Thank you so much ballerina9!! Very sweet of you!
            G-bean, do a search for the article “Stuck” from 2/3 and read the comments.

          18. gabbanzobean says:

            Wow! Thank you Clarece. I will try to find it and read it now. And really? It’s found in semen? Well on the humorous side, I guess this explains why he detested condoms and said he needed to “feel everything”. Yeah he had to erupt and give me more of that oxytocin didn’t he!?

            Yes I know it’s only been two months, and part of me still feels like he’s never going to talk to me again. When it and if it comes, hahahah pun not intended, lol, I will definitely let you know. Just hearing the words “dopamine erupting volcano” already makes me nervous AF!

          19. MLA - Clarece says:

            You’re welcome! It was a great thread of lots of comments! I’m sure you’ll be able to add to it.

          20. gabbanzobean says:

            Okay I just went and read comments to the article you mention. Holy damn! Explains so much. Explains why I am indeed “stuck”. And it explains why his wife (of nearly 9 years) is also likely “stuck”. I cannot believe he wants to have a 2nd child with her (so he tells me, one of the reasons he cannot be with the likes of me is because he wants to focus on expanding his family). Oh what a distorted reality.

            The Crying Game article HG posted tripped 2 memories for me. One was him telling me “I cannot believe I can make you feel so strongly Gabrielle”.

            The other (which I literally just thought of now) was a story he told of a time when he was listening to music in the car with his daughter and she was crying. He thought something was wrong so he asked her what was wrong and why she was crying and she said the music was so beautiful.

            It is a shame they’ll never understand things we do.

            On the plus side at least his daughter seems to not be a mini Narc. I know it’s not my monkey and not my circus but I really do feel for his wife and kid (and any future offspring that come about).

          21. Jenna says:

            Thx clarece for the additional information!

          22. MLA - Clarece says:

            I won’t use JN’s real real initials here. God forbid he ever stumbled upon this blog. Obviously my name isn’t Clarece but he’d recognize my pic.

          23. gabbanzobean says:

            Well we definitely could not have him stumbling upon us! Can you imagine? Forced to face the truth about yourself? The nerve of us withholding fuel! How “utterly” mean of us. “Utterly” used for emphasis. LOL. #Wiseass πŸ˜‚

          24. Jenna says:

            And every time i start a post with ‘clarece’, i feel i should use a deep hannibal lecter voice – ‘good day clarece’ πŸ˜‚

          25. Jenna says:

            Clarece, JN sent you a mistext? Lol! Then what happened? How did you reply, if you did?

          26. MLA - Clarece says:

            He didn’t really “mistext” me. That used to be something he did earlier on after the first year when he started doling out silent treatments and would reappear sometimes under the guise of mistexting me instead of his friend “Mark”. I didn’t know those were hoovers back then. And the floodgates would open because I would be so pent up from him being silent, it would always get us engaged in conversation again. The cycle would repeat.
            In this day and age, it is really damn hard to mistext someone with your smart phone.
            I did respond to him pretty flatly, that if all he wanted to do was wish me a Happy Mother’s Day, he didn’t have to mistext me to do that. It’s appreciated.
            He waited a day and texted back “It wasn’t a fake text. Enjoy your day”. Then I waited a day and said “it was a very happy day. Hope you had a nice weekend.” Silence again. He has to prove to me it was an accident. It is so transparent. If he really mistexted me, and given our last convo was not the most pleasant, he would have just let it stand on its own and not wished me a Happy Mother’s Day. No contact for a week 1/2. I just can’t help busting him out on his lame tactics. lol

          27. Jenna says:

            Clarece, mistexting you instead of his friend ‘mark.’ Omg, i laughed so hard! Thank you for that! πŸ˜‚

        2. Jenna says:

          Lol clarece! You’re a ‘super tanker’ of fuel!

          1. MLA - Clarece says:

            I own that sh*t!!! lol

      2. Jenna says:

        Gbean, how about this? Text him and without any emotion (no exclamation marks, no emojis), tell him YOU don’t have time in your life for him anymore and to not contact you anytime in the future. That will wound him i think. Ha! Then watch how he comes grovelling back. Just an idea. I did that with my ex once, and he wanted me more than ever after that.

        1. gabbanzobean says:

          Jenna, I love it. The irony behind that is he used to tell me that we needed to block each other. And cease all talking. But he said it so polite and nice. “Oh it’s for our own good!” lol. Your idea like Clarece’s sounds very tempting!

          1. Jenna says:

            Gbean, let’s check with HG first though. I would not want a result that you are displeased with. HG, would my idea wound GB’s narc and would he come grovelling back?

          2. HG Tudor says:

            I would need to know more about the individual concerned and the proposed idea.

          3. gabbanzobean says:

            Okay here is my summary. Mid-ranger cerebral. He instituted a variation of “no contact” with me (before I learned what he was).

            “I am going to block you and I need you to do the same, it is for our own good.”


            “I will never block you. I cannot. It would be cowardly and mean. But we need to ‘detox’ from each other. If you love me you will not reach out to me, you will leave me be”.

            So I did. I backed off.

            Then he hoovered me with a “happy birthday” text.

            Then the repeat of the “I need space, I need to be alone”.

            Then I came here. And learned what he is.

            I am annoyed that he is getting fuel by “winning” where I am essentially giving him what he wants by leaving him alone. Yet I am tempted to “reach out” to defy his “please do not talk to me” nonsense. Yet I worried that would give him fuel too.

            I would very much like to wound him. Clarece and K each shared their experiences with suggestions on how to do so.

            I am trying NOT to stoop to his level but I am very tempted to “hoover” him back for his birthday next month (as he did to me). Childish I know but that’s where I am at the moment.

            Clarece and K each suggested a way to wound him by sending him an emotionless “mistext”. K then suggested we ask you. LOL. Not my idea to pester you as I know you are busy but since you asked for the backstory there you have it!

          4. HG Tudor says:

            Thank you for the information.

            1. Continue to ignore him. You are not giving him fuel.
            2. He is likely to hoover you. Ignore him. No fuel and your failed response will wound him.
            3. If you send a mistext then whilst there may be no fuel in the message he will read this as you being interested and he will gain a little Thought Fuel at imagining you wanting to contact him. It will also lower the hoover bar and he will be more likely to hoover again.
            4. Whilst it may seem like you are giving him what he wants by staying away, he does not mean it (that was only stated in that moment to draw fuel) and you are better served by staying away, maintaining no contact, giving no fuel and ignoring the hoovers as this will wound him.

          5. gabbanzobean says:

            Thank you for the prompt reply. ESPECIALLY #4 and the clarification involved. I have really struggled with how he asked me to go away. I really thought I was giving him what he wanted by leaving him alone and had no idea he did not mean such. What a complicated situation. I always feel like it is Narc opposite day, all the time.

            Thank you for the advice HG!

          6. HG Tudor says:

            You are welcome.

          7. Ms brown says:

            HG…. you are so correct on the above 4…… I can not stress enough to readers of your blog that N/C & no response (to him or lieutenants) IS thee mortal wound… anything else and game playing with them with fake hoovers etc. WILL backfire…. This was one of the most important and helpful lessons I have taken from you… Thank You β™‘

          8. HG Tudor says:

            You are welcome.

          9. Jenna says:

            I believe Gbean took care of that. Thank you for your detailed response. You are our hero, truly.

          10. gabbanzobean says:

            LOL! GBean! Makes me sound gangsta. 😎

          11. MLA - Clarece says:

            Ladies (Jenna and G-Bean), you know full good and well that HG will say No Contact Everrrrrrr.
            I go rogue when I pull that. Did you not notice how HG asked me why JN wasn’t fully blocked when I wrote about the Mother’s Day text? That was his way of giving me a thumbs down on that move. lol

          12. gabbanzobean says:

            I think I noticed that! But hey if it makes you feel better……LOL.
            I have no idea what I am going to do. I am still somewhat of a wreck and still trying to digest HG’s earlier advice about how he said he wanted me to go away but did not really mean it and it was just for a moment of fuel. Narc opposite day is forever keeping me on my toes!

          13. gabbanzobean says:

            P.S. Some of my comments show as Gabrielle and others show as Garbanzobean. It is the same person. For some reason I remain logged in on my Macbook but not on my I-phone! LOL. I just went to go re-read and I see my 2 different labels! πŸ˜‰

          14. Jenna says:

            Gbean, we know it’s you because we can see your pretty picture next to your name. πŸ˜‰

          15. gabbanzobean says:

            Are you love bombing me Jenna!? Hehehe. πŸ˜‰

          16. Jenna says:

            Lol! Good one!

          17. Jenna says:

            Clarece, why do you think it is that we don’t block them? Is it the addiction? Is it the curiosity to know when he will text next? Is it to try tactics we learn here? In my case, it is to make him more self aware as well. What are your thoughts on this?

          18. gabbanzobean says:

            I know you were asking Clarece, but I’m going to reply anyway. πŸ™‚ Maybe it’s for the same reason they don’t want to block us. They probably just want to keep coming back to get our fuel. But they keep saying they want to block us just to get fuel. At least mine did that. Back-and-forth with that “I’m going to block you” then “No I’m not going to block you anymore” nonsense yet he never actually blocked me. Part of me kind of wishes he would, but that’s only because I don’t have the guts to do it myself. Mine has about 2000 friends on his social media. I doubt he would even notice if I were to block him. But then again I could be wrong and he might notice. I wonder if that would wound him. Me blocking him?

          19. Jenna says:

            Gbean, he would notice and it would wound him if you blocked him.

          20. Ms brown says:

            If I may step in here: Note… because they NEVER let you go, till death. That is why it is up to US to implement N/C and fully block them… am I correct HG? If not please ad-lib

          21. HG Tudor says:


          22. Indy says:

            I hope I am not interrupting too much for sharing why I do not block.

            You see, I know I am able to resist contacting him back after hoover attempts. I am pretty strong. However, I keep him from being blocked on my phone as it gives me a heads up if he is stalking me again so I can be on extra guard. For me, that is the only reason. This week, my ex husband who I left nearly 20 years ago has been hoover attempting through my adult son (not a biological father to my son). It is the first time he has tried to contact my son since I left my ex husband when my son was 9. (messy divorce, he stalked and scared us). My son wants to blast him and tell him to go to hell, but I told him to ignore him. He wrote him on FB, asking to connect as he misses us both and wants to comment every now and then on our lives. He actually said that. WTH!?! We share no friends. It has been 20 years. WHY??? Weirdo. He also admitted that I had blocked him on FB and “didn’t know why” so he messages my son instead of me to ask…Can anyone say “triangulation”. He wanted to friend my son to spy on me and comment on my life. So, I keep my eyes peeled as he has stalked me previously. I had him committed to hospital when I left him and he faked a suicide attempt to keep me. My friends ask me, what do I do to these men? Hahahaha Yeah, its me and my magical sauce.

            So, I have him and my other exes blocked on social media but not on my phone or texts. They do not receive receipts if I read texts or not so they do not get that confirmation. For me, I feel safer to have this possible heads up to batten down the hatches.

          23. Jenna says:

            Indy, he wants to be in your life after so many yrs? Good you ignored him! And i understand about not blocking on your part. Smart move!

          24. Indy says:

            Well, he followed me for 4 years before I dated him and I didn’t know it. When I was 16 and he was 21, he was interested in me but I refused as I had a boyfriend and thought he was too geeky for my type at that time. Plus too old. Well, move ahead 4 years, after I left my boyfriend (my son’s father). He comes knocking at my door. He said he was “canvassing for girlfirneds”. All my friends thought, wow, he’s from the city, has a ivy league family, some cash and he held a torch for me for 4 years. I first wanted to be friends and then developed feelings and we ended up married 2 years later and moving to Boston. When we moved to Atlanta, to follow my career, I divorced him as there were many issues. After I left, he sent letters, money, called, both mean and kind. He tore apart my car, yelled in my security camera, scared my son and I to death. Had threat letters wishing I would die of AIDS as I had moved on. Scary stuff. He did this for years. Then silence. For years. I never responded way back then to all those hoovers and I wont still. I didn’t know back then they were even hoovers, I just knew I was being stalked. I always know my surroundings, I have hyper vigilience when alone in public places due to stalking. I seat myself so I can see the door, hold my keys between my knuckles, etc. No phone calls when walking to and from car. This is how I keep myself fairly safe. However, it is never fool proof.

            “76% of women murdered by an intimate partner were stalked first; 85% of women who survived
            murder attempts were stalked.
            β€’ 89% of femicide victims who had been physically assaulted before their murder were also stalked in the last year prior to their murder.
            β€’ 54% of femicide victims reported stalking to the police before they were killed by their stalkers.
            1 out of 7 women move due to stalking.”
            National Coalition of Domestic Violence (2015)
            The police know, I have moved before and considering it again. This stuff impacts lives seriously.

          25. Jenna says:

            He sounds like a nightmare. Pls stay safe indy.

          26. Indy says:

            I will, thanks Jenna! Not trying to be a buzz kill, just confirming the “til death do us part” ….sigh. Just got a message today from him. Now hoping the more recent cray cray Narc doesn’t join in the Hoover fest lol. He’s been rather quiet since xmas.

          27. Jenna says:

            Fingers crossed indy.

          28. MLA - Clarece says:

            I could say yes to all of those questions at different times over the last 20-21 months since finding this blog. Specifically now, I know I took a swipe at one of JN’s pillars (that HG writes about in Revenge) almost 2 months ago. I’m gauging to see how much I may have wounded him since he has completely backed off (except for the “mistext” over Mother’s Day weekend). I still have days flooded with a lot of memories over things and now seeing things constantly through a different lens. I know I experienced trauma bonding due to 2 things that happened back-to-back about 3 months into us starting the relationship. I guess now, I’ll test HG’s theory that it never ends or I will reach the point where I will truly be void of any type of emotion when I hear from him and he will be completely irrelevant. Each return of his gets me closer to the latter. I do prefer to know when JN may be on the move again too where I’m concerned. I don’t like to be blindsighted.
            I am a huge believer though that these relationships are based on the chemical reaction and energy exchanges between the two parties. That is why they are so exhilarating, the highs and lows are off the charts with their intensity. The chemical addiction does take full-on recovery efforts to get through it.

          29. NarcAngel says:

            Your life is none of my business and feel free to tell me so after the following, which I say with the best of intention.
            I understand there are still feelings from your interactions with JN that you feel you need to work out, and that it is both entertaining and educational to test HGs theories. I just think you are an attractive but more importantly, intelligent woman with much to offer and have offered to her. When I read that you are still interacting with JN after all this time I am not judging your actions, I just think that he is still covertly stealing further time away from you. I wonder that even though you are now armed, that even giving him the light of day is preventing you from having the relationship you really want as you feel this one is not resolved. Not that you need one-so not the case. I just keep thinking hes winning by taking your thoughts and time and although I am a stranger to you I hate that for you. You deserve better. I hope that you read that as concern and not criticism, although I understand that my concern may not be yours and forgive me if my concerns are unfounded.


          30. MLA - Clarece says:

            Hi NA! I could tell you chose your words delicately and deliberately meant from the bottom of your heart and not at all meant to offend. That is completely how I interpreted that.
            I mulled this over a lot today during work.
            Although you do not know me, you emphasized finding me both attractive and intelligent. I’m always so pleasantly surprised when that happens with people.
            Funnily, since my divorce (in the dating world – not friends or family who would echo you), no one has seemed to even want to scratch beneath the surface with me. And that in itself is a reoccurring rejection to constantly deal with.
            Maybe on some level I’ve thought JN found me intelligent too, to keep resurfacing whether it was for mind games or not and so that patches over that wound.

          31. NarcAngel says:

            That you are attractive and intelligent is very evident so never let that be a surprise to you. Im sure you are also huge of heart, fiercely loyal, and a great mom. Im also sure JN found you all of those things, but we both now know that as much as he may have appreciated them, his own needs inevitably overshadowed all that you offered. Perhaps with regard to dating you are not being rejected, but that your experience with JN has you observing and questioning more (rightly so) mens intentions, and so it will have to be a real and truly confident man to push aside that veil. When that man senses that you are fully present and not attending to unfinished business in your life, he may approach. Or maybe dont wait-get your Narc on girl!. Let them know that you are ready, know what you want, and that you wont settle for any less or youre good with loving yourself, and the one who will always matter the most-your daughter. No contest. I’ll return to minding my own business now where you are concerned. I just wanted to let you know thats my my wish for you.

          32. MLA - Clarece says:

            I appreciate your well wishes for me. You’re right along with my family and close friends. I was definitely fully present whenever there was someone I was interested in too. That’s not it. No one wanted to put forth the effort to “push aside the veil.”
            I’m also limited as far as the area I’m in for dating in general. Two hours south of Chicago in the corn and soybean belt and in a college town. The other major employer is corporate headquarters for a major US insurance company. So the options pretty much are frat boys looking for a cougar experience which definitely seems to be on all of their bucket lists; married, bored middle-aged men slaves to their cubicles and looking for a thrill (affairs our literally out of control at said insurance company where two years ago upper management had a meeting about how to get control of the situation so said insurance company doesn’t start getting a bad reputation); or the camping, hunting, fishing, three-wheeling crowd that seems to flock on the regional dating apps. Thanks but no thanks.
            Also, when my ex and I first split my daughter was 4. For a few years, I’d say thru 7, it would have been much easier for someone, if they were genuine, to come on the scene and be able to bond with her and have her open to it, like she was with my ex moving at lightning speed and getting remarried. My daughter has a really good relationship with her stepmom and I appreciate very much that she is not an evil, mean stepmom. She is very kind to my daughter.
            But my daughter and I now have been in our own little bubble for 6 years now. We’re like the Gilmore Girls and I really don’t want anyone coming in disrupting that now. She’s also very territorial with me and she saw JN get me upset here and there and “hates” him. Last fall, I attempted to date an old friend from college who went through a divorce after many years and we reconnected on FB. It seemed to be going well for about a month 1/2. Funnily enough after a really nice date night, he asked me if I’d ever want to play hookey from work to hang out with him. So a few days later, when we went out to dinner, I gave him a date that I could take off from work and asked him if he’d like to go see a play in Chicago and go up there for the day. Later that night, I got the “talk” about that being a really big deal if we do our first “trip” and he just doesn’t want to feel like he’s in “trouble” if he talks or goes out with another woman.
            Are you f’ng kidding me? You asked me a few days about playing hookey and I was responding to that. It was such a pansy-ass, weak excuse and I was done. With him. With dating. All of it. He should have been thrilled to have me planning that. And he was already angling to be able to still go on more dates with other women. Honestly, he really thought he’s gifting himself to the female population around here with his new single status. I don’t think I’m missing much between the stores I read here and what I’m avoiding around here. lol

          33. NarcAngel says:

            MLA Clarece
            Well, given all that, A 3D hologram of a man might be preferred lol. Darling you should move. We have lots of insurance in Canada. Just sayin……

            Seriously though-I can see you’re all good and I shall shelf my concern. I appreciate that you were open to discussion. Now if youll excuse me, my mirror neurons are acting up (I need eye drops).

          34. MLA - Clarece says:

            Have a happy weekend NA!

          35. Jenna says:

            Yes, the trauma bonding is horrible. And the chemical reactions do play a large role in the addiction. Here’s to zero impact one day!

    2. gabbanzobean says:

      Oops I think that was me thinking like a normal person again. oops lol.

      1. K says:


        The ball is in your court. Whatever you do, keep your emotions to a minimum and it will reduce his fuel intake. Sometimes I wish I wasn’t “No Contact” because I would love to mess with my ex. Oh, the pure joy I would get from that! The fuel would make me feel powerful and superior! It is ok to think like a normal; it takes persistence to keep putting yourself in their shoes.

        1. gabbanzobean says:

          I replied above to MLA Clarece. Persistence indeed! The struggle is real.

  8. gabbanzobean says:

    Again with the contradiction! We must never ignore you, but you can ignore us? Or you can tell us that you don’t want us talking to you? Always with the contradiction!

  9. KT says:

    Hi Mr T. What book do I buy that touches on a bit of everything regarding the narcissist?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Evil. It is a light touch however because the subject is so wide it is necessary to refer to different books.

  10. Jenna says:

    When he hoovered via text, his msgs were repetitive stating the same thing ‘let’s talk, why won’t you talk to me?, pls read my texts’ etc. Then all of a sudden in caps ‘YOU CAN’T DO THIS, YOU HAVE TO TALK TO ME’
    I didn’t talk to him until two months later.

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