To Have Not To Hold


You can have our kind but you cannot hold on to us. We will not permit it. We are the archetypal individuals who you can experience, you can love, enjoy, cherish and so many other things but the one thing you may not do is hold on to us.

We allow you to have us because what we give you is constructed and comes at no great cost to us. Instead it allows us to gain. By being generous with our supposed love, passionate with our words, highly desirable with our sexual prowess, charming, flattering and everything else which you associate with our love bombing of you, we want you to have it all. We want you to have all of our charm, our magnetism, our illusion. We want you to drown in it, become engulfed by the blazing lights and soothing sounds, swamped by the seductive desire that we sweep across you like a tsunami. You can have it all because the more we give you, the more likely you will be carried away by this tidal wave of false love. The more sugar we pour over you, the sweeter the golden period and the greater your addiction to us becomes. Naturally,the extent of how much you can have of us is governed by our energy levels and our capacity for control, so that the experience is all the more fuller should you be ensnared by a Mid Ranger than a Lesser and many times more intense should you fall prey to a Greater.

You can have all of our time because it serves our purposes. All of our focus is yours, you get our near undivided attention as we pull out all the stops to seduce and conquer. You can have our financial resources as we spend money on you (even when we may not have the money to spend on you – incurring debt or using someone else’s resources) , take you to places, book interesting days out, tempting nights out and utilise financial muscle, whether ours or borrowed from  bank or devalued victim, in order to let you have the full on magical experience that is being seduced by us.

We will grant you access to our friends, which of course is just allowing the façade to wrap around you and convince you of our bona fides, our supportive and attractive coterie all so giving of their time to you, praising us and welcoming you.

We will allow you to have a route to all of our favourite things, although of course this is manufactured in order to actually allow you to attach to your favourite things as we mirror your likes, your desires and your hopes back at you, but it is still giving of us.

The Somatic and Elite cadres will allow you to have us physically as the weapon of mass seduction that is sex, is rolled out to delight you. You are apparently given access to our most intimate of levels, in a series of steamy and orgasmic encounters as we utilise our well-practised sexual skills in conjunction with the whole orchestrated seduction of you to create an intense and mesmerising experience.

We may move you in, a supposedly generous act as we allow you to have closeness and regular time with us, all engineered of course to maintain our façade of pleasantry and reliability as you are bound closer to us. In some instances we perhaps allow you to have what could be considered the ultimate act of ‘having’ as we give you our seed or our womb for the purposes of the creation of new life.

Yes, by allowing you to have so much of us, we create the image of someone who gives, someone who sacrifices, who thinks of you before we think of ourselves and thus you, understandably, fall for this and truly believe you have us. You do have us but it is for, in the scheme of things, a fleeting instance. A mere moment in vastness of time and for all of its wonder and brilliance, you are allowed to have us but you cannot hold us.

We cannot allow this to happen because we will turn matters around, in order to ensure that our hunger for fuel is addressed, in order to cater for our slavish devotion to the maintenance of superiority and in order to assert our right to do as we please, when we please, how we please and with whom we please.

You cannot hold us. You cannot keep us. We regard ourselves as that omnipotent force that is not beholden to boundaries, constraints and bondage. You have no say over what we do. You are not there to impose your rules on us, keep us in check or prevent us from seeking out what we need in order to maintain our existence. Indeed, the prevention of you keeping us is material in ensuring that the threat of our departure is something that keeps you working hard to please us,to provide that fuel, be it positive or negative and to allow us to keep you just where we want you. We can keep a hold of you of course, that is the nature of the narcissistic covenant, but as usual, what applies to you will not apply to us and vice versa.

We make the decisions. We choose. We execute and operate. We are not there to be bound to one person and especially one which will invariably fail us. We consider ourselves as beyond such things and therefore the notions of faithfulness, fidelity and monogamy are cast out as evicted tenants from the House of Narc.

We want you to try to hold on to us, that is part of our game playing. We want you to strive to keep us, to exert your every waking moment to clinging on to us but it can never happen. We are programmed to reject that desire to keep us as you want us to be. There is no hope for it to happen, but we will give you that false hope, through the respite periods and the periodic resumption of the golden period. You are led to believe that you have managed to keep us, that you can continue to have us and to hold us, but it will not last and it cannot last because the concept of being beholden to you and just you will ultimately run contrary to our needs and as you are well-acquainted with the idea now, our needs must always come first.

We decide when we come back, we decide when the false love is shown to you again, we decide when you get to see us, get to speak to us and receive our attention, seduction, fury or disdain. We must behave this way to shore up our idea of being the one who calls the shots, who makes the decisions and pulls the strings because we dare not contemplate for too long what would happen if we allowed you to take hold of matters.

We will always let you have us, but you will never be allowed to hold us.

93 thoughts on “To Have Not To Hold

  1. geyserempath says:

    Wowg, gabbanzobean! – my MLVN did the same thing. He would call every Friday night. We saw each other every Saturday night and if things had to changed up, we would swap a Friday night for the Saturday night. He wouldn’t call me any other night and we could only see each other one night of the week..After a year of this, I wanted commitment and he “friendzoned” me, telling me I thought more of the “relationship”than he did. He still saw me every week, but I didn’t spend the night, he took that away…so we were friends with benefits…then he took away the phone calls every week…then once the new IPSS or DS IPSS appeared, he took away my pet name in emails and took away the “benefits” telling me they had become routine and that I “expected” him to like things on FB, so he took that away, too. He is back to liking some items and commenting on FB, but benefits and pet name are off the table. So, here I sit, shelved. I am so sorry for you having to go through this, too.

    1. gabbanzobean says:

      Geyser Empath,
      Holy shit… describe an almost identical pattern with my mid ranger. Except I am LD so we have not seen each other in person as frequently. But yep. Everything else almost the same thing. Phone calls every M and F at 4, every Wed at 9. Then it became 2 days a week, then 1. Then eventually none. Now he doesn’t answer and it is silent. They create it all and give it and then take it all back.

      Taken away, shelved, friend zoned, pet names gone, “I love you” became “I care about you” (eye roll)….and of course my favorite contradiction “WE ARE NEVER HAVING SEX AGAIN”, (that was a lie, LOL). He was still following me on social media. It went from constant likes to the occasional like and then right before Christmas, before the bullshit ultimatum to “block” me, he deleted me from social media (unfollowed on Instagram, etc.)

      Another thing that sticks out in my mind was how I was DLS and no one knew about me. Then when we took a “5 month break” all of a sudden he had “confided” with his coworker about me, which he told me about when we began talking. Of course I had to ask him what she said about it.

      Me: “I thought no one knew about me, why confide in your coworker?”

      Him: “Well she is married too like me and she’s been fucking like 4 different guys behind her husband’s back. So we were able to relate to each other. She passes no judgement on me.”

      Me: “So you were with this girl while you were not talking to me?”

      Him: “No way! Like I would want to be the 4th different dick that she is fucking at the same time. No thank you, she is just a friend. However she does think that you are way too obsessed with me!”

      After that little spiel, she has got to be in his matrix of other women, right? Otherwise why the F would he mention her to me? I do not even know this girl and she thinks I am obsessed with him. LOL. (EYE ROLL)

      1. MLA - Clarece says:

        OMG! Can Piano man be any more freaking crass when he’s describing his co-worker, and he doesn’t want to be the “4th dick she’s fucking”.
        He holds this co-worker in no high esteem…whatsoever… So even if he did become the 4th dick, it was completely meaningless and probably served some function as getting some kind of action his wife won’t do in the bedroom.
        This is the guy sitting in church each week and playing their piano. Can you say Angel with a filthy face?

        1. gabbanzobean says:

          Everytime I read that “angel with a dirty face” article I immediately think of him. He really is an angel with a dirty face all right! That and the “holy narcissist” article too, that article also makes me think of him. That is the churchy pianist facade that he hides behind.

          If he was a priest or something I could totally see him having sex with the parishioners. He is a sex addict. At this point I am fairly certain he’d fuck anything that moves. And here I was thinking I was special.

          “I am the nicest guy you’ll ever meet” he always used to say. And he probably actually believes that too.

          Piano recital at church.

      2. K says:

        This is an excellent example of hypocritical and contradictory behavior.

        Him: “No way! Like I would want to be the 4th different dick that she is fucking at the same time. No thank you, she is just a friend. However she does think that you are way too obsessed with me!”

        1. gabbanzobean says:

          I know right? I am still laughing over the fact that he shared the fact with me that some girl (who I do not even know) thinks I am obsessed with HIM. Is that his way of telling me that’s what HE really thinks? (again insert eye roll here)

          1. K says:

            gabbanzobean, a.k.a. Fuel Cookie
            My eyes rolled when I was reading his spiel. She could be a narc, too. My narcs would share/brag about their exploits with each other. They thought they were so superior and special.

      3. Bibi says:


        That exchange left me feeling gross. Fucking 4 guys behind her hubby’s back and she ‘offers no judgment?’ BARF.

        People like that just make me feel icky. Not worth having around!

      4. Gabs,

        I’ve had that kind of triangulation pulled on me before. I was asking mine how he could even consider the opinion of “some waitress” who has never even met me. (IPSS, I now know) The words coming out of her mouth (if they actually did) depends on what he says about you to her.
        Too bad we can’t just go and ask the other person in that triangulation, “Hey, did you really say that about me, or is he just treating me like a mushroom?”
        (Keeping you in the dark, and feeding you bulls^^t)

      5. geyserempath says:

        Oh gb…what a complete and utter bastard! I am so sorry you have to go through this. I wish you could find some space and time to heal and be done with him. I understand they are addictive, but mine does this same type of triangulation and it is gut-wrenching and very unhealthy for me, so I have started changing the way I feel. Please take care and look out for yourself.

      6. gabbanzobean says:

        Narc on Narc action. Would not surprise me.

      7. gabbanzobean says:


        “Too bad we can’t just go and ask the other person in that triangulation, “Hey, did you really say that about me, or is he just treating me like a mushroom?”

        Oh how I wish I could. I do not have the gumption to reach out to a total stranger to ask such a question on social media though. I could if I really wanted to as I know her screen name (he showed me her Instagram page once when I visited him, which by the way is public and full of boob and cleavage pictures)…..but what would it accomplish? They are probably both cut from the same narc cloth, especially if she is F-ing 4 different guys behind her husband’s back, as he says she is.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Which he is no doubt lying about.

          There is no need to engage with this person.

          1. It is causing you to continue to feed the emotional infection.
          2. The individual may not understand what you are trying to discuss.
          3. You may have been smeared to this person therefore they will be unpersuaded at best and hostile at worst.
          4. It adds nothing to what you already know – he is a narcissist – the conversation will add nothing constructive and has several downsides.

          1. Fuel Cookie says:

            So if he is lying about the “she said this, she said that” is it still triangulation or is it just manipulative backhanded smearing? (i.e. OMG she is SOOOO attached to me, what a weirdo, etc.)

            Or is it smearangulation? (not a real word I know but I just made it one)

            Also, if I am DLS how can I be smeared if no one is supposed to know about me? Does your kind smear DLS? If they are a “secret” how can they be smeared?

            This is the only person who (I think) knows about me, least that he has mentioned anyway. I have been introduced to a few people he knows as “a friend” before but that was it.

            Oops there I go trying to find out the silly truth again. Meh.

      8. Perse, Queen of Hell says:

        HG Tudor,

        ‘There is no need to engage with this person.’

        Well, of course not!
        What the f**k was I thinking?

    2. K says:


      I read this as cognitive dissonance and that isn’t mean at all; I think you are simply trying to make sense of it all.

      Mine shelved me for a coworker who has short hair (he likes long), no bustline (he loves boobs), who dresses like a tomboy (he likes femininity), thick legs (and he is a leg man), loose morals (and he hates tramps), and who has the IQ of a dishrag (I am intelligent).

      I did exactly the same thing as you.

      1. geyserempath says:

        K – thank you so much for that! You are correct. I am trying to figure out why when a man tells you he has a “type” or particular body asset he admires the most and that he dislikes other assets and then turns around and shelves you for a “type” that is the polar opposite of what he likes, it just boggles the mind. I cannot figure it out. It all boils down to what Perse said. Fuel, fuel, fuel. He stands three feet away from her every day and they flirt like crazy. I guess I should be thankful to both him, for shelving me, thus allowing me time to gain some logical thinking, and her, for catching his eye. Unfortunately, she doesn’t know what he is and I can’t warn her because I will come off as possessive and crazy.

        1. K says:

          You are welcome, geyserempath. It most certainly does boggle the mind and we are here tying to make sense of it all. I think my MMRN’s IPPS is a dim-witted twit and behaves like a “follower/sheep” (compliant & easy to manipulate). It must be awful to stand so close and see them flirt and I would not like to be in your shoes, that would hurt and confuse me, too. You are correct, your logical thinking will take over your emotional thinking and I wouldn’t warn her either; she won’t listen and they will both think you are crazy and jealous. All your energy should go towards yourself and getting better.

      2. geyserempath says:

        HG – I am framing your response. My emotional thinking still tries to paint mine as “normal”, but when all is said and done, we know he is a narcissist and that is that.

  2. gabbanzobean says:

    Hi HG,
    I have a question about the “having but not holding” mentality. I think you once said that when the narc feels “controlled” by us that this is a form of “wounding”? So they are the ones who have to have the control? Is that correct? Did I summarize that accurately? Meaning trying to “hold” onto him could make him lash out? Such quotes come to mind as…

    “If you contact me before X date, I will block you”
    “If you cool your jets and back off for the rest of the week, then I will call you, okay?”
    “I cannot talk today, please do not call me, okay?”
    and so on…

    I keep thinking back to the beginning where we’d have set times for visits and phone calls all the time. Then eventually he plucked those things away. Was that for him to reinforce that he was in control and I was not? I recall him saying “I am removing YOUR dependence because now you expect this regularly and it cannot be like that. You are too dependent on it. And for awhile I was starting to depend on it too…”

    I am overthinking the last line of “I was starting to depend on it too”…Your kind depends on nothing right? He took away all that stuff so he could be in control again right?

    1. Catherine says:

      I read your comments, and I’ve read what you’ve written about your relationship before; this might be unwanted but I feel that you’re deluding yourself and I wish so much better for you and for everyone struggling with these kind of hopeless men. There’s no hope. You’re stuck with words, analysing what he says on and on and you’re in cognitive dissonance; I understand; I’ve been there myself; but there’s no use poring over every word he said if it’s not in a healing manner to help you think logically. Instead I feel you’re hoping against hope. That’s part of the manipulation; you’re his prisoner. That’s what’s intended.

      Your piano guy is married and lives far away. He’s a narcissist. I doubt that all married men having an affair are narcissistic, but still in the dynamic of being a mistress there’s rules you usually abide by which are similar to those of a narcissistic relationship. I know; I’ve been there too once so I’m not judging in any way. First of all married men don’t leave their wives. Some might, but most of them don’t. They might tell you they will, but they won’t. It’s part of the rules of having an affair unfortunately. It’s on their terms, you wait, you cry by the phone, they’re inconsistent, the sex is great, the emptiness afterwards overwhelming. You become desperate, sad, you lose yourself. Please, please don’t! Close that narc book and rewrite a happy ending for yourself. Everything is about control and power with these men. They want you to be dependent on them and then they turn the tables on you; it’s word salad and it’s abuse. It’s what they are, but you’re better than that and you can walk away. Be free please. He has a wife already. Find someone who deserve your love.

    2. Twilight says:


      It is all about control. Nothing more nothing less
      Overthinking causes us to drown within our own emotions.
      That last line was to kick start your overthinking with the what if’s or what about this or why

      Just my opinion

    3. geyserempath says:

      Catherine, it may be my emotional thinking as I tend to overthink everything.

    4. Jenna says:


      U will not listen to any of us. U have to get there urself. I suggest having one or 2 audio consults w hg. This is what i did. I read the texts to hg, word for word. Hg provided me with an explanation of each line in context. I needed that. I shud have tried this method sooner. I now am more aware of the mmrn’s mindset. (See, i am not even calling him ‘my nex’ anymore). I can honestly now say that i do NOT love him. There is nothing to love. U need to do this. U seem to need answers to move on. I certainly did. Pls, even if u are strapped financially, spend money on the consult. U went to meet him in october right? That cost money. Instead, u cud have had a consult. Do it pls, for urself, for ur sanity.

    5. Gabrielle,

      Would it help you if you went somewhere for a short while to distract yourself?
      Do you have a friend or a relative you are comfortable with visiting for a bit?
      Maybe if you are away and distracted, you might be able to go NC, or at least see your situation from a more relaxed view?

      1. gabbanzobean says:

        Perse, I have a trip to Florida planned mid-February to see my best friend for my birthday. It will be a much needed distraction.

        1. Gabbanzobean,

          Good! Glad to hear it. Sun and BF time might be just what you need.
          And an early Happy Birthday to you. (I don’t know if I’ll remember later, I just got a volunteer gig for an event coming up this May, and I’m to do some promotion beforehand. Good distraction for me. 🙂 )

  3. Bibi says:

    Well, everyone should know I am not fake, that I really am a yellow square.

    1. Jasmine says:

      LOL… Bibi.. you are hysterical!
      Btw, I hate red. Just my luck 😜

    2. Perse, Queen of Hell says:



      If that’s really you, I think I have several members of your family hanging out on the bed in my guestroom!

      1. narc affair says:


    3. geyserempath says:

      OMG that was the best response ever, Bibi!

    4. Catherine says:

      Ha ha.. I was a nice purple square before but obviously my innermost identity was stolen when I suddenly and quite literally out of the blue was presented to the world in light blue colours and a pattern I couldn’t relate to. That’s when I decided to turn my back to all these colourful squares;)

      1. Catherine,

        I see you did so literally!

      2. Catherine says:

        Yes, Perse I did.. ha ha.. I felt a little bit safer by turning my back, but I don’t know why. My ex would recognise me anyway and I don’t think he would ever find this blog. Narcissim isn’t exactly on his mind. And in the end, if he did, I don’t care.

        1. geyserempath says:

          Catherine – what a great attitude! Since Lesser Narcs are unaware of what they are, mine probably won’t go looking for help and find this site. Perhaps I am safe after all…and you are right…do I care?

        2. Jasmine says:

          I envy you girls. I would love to be so free. I’m tied legally atm. Grrr.

      3. Catherine says:

        Geyserempath, thank you! Mine is a Lesser too; an Upper Lesser I think, and since he thinks all his problems belong to others I’m not worried that he might go into some kind of self discovery mode and suddenly start any soul searching. He has no soul to begin with;) That’s his big problem.

        Are you worried that there might be repercussions if yours find you? Or is it more the emotional thinking kicking in if he did?

  4. Perse, Queen of Hell says:

    RealitySetsIn and Geyserempath,

    I think you are both beautiful!

    If you have any fear you might be found, or you are privacy conscious, I wouldn’t worry about using some other image for your avatar. You can, if you wish, subtitle it, “not me” or “substitute image” or something like that if you feel the need to let people know it’s not you.

    At least you personalized it a bit, by going with something other than the “quilt squares” or whatever these generic patterns are that you get when you create a user name.

    It is odd that someone would even point out that you had a “stock photo”. I would guess that most of us would not want to be identifiable as posting on this forum in real life.

    I say use whatever makes you feel comfortable and at home here, for your avatar. Heck, you can change it every time you post. We recognize your “name”, and expect to interact with that identity, no matter the picture.


  5. geyserempath says:

    I am an empath trying to heal and I am not fake, but you are welcome to your opinion. I make comments here just like everyone else, but I am looking for help, not hurt. Perhaps you and I got off on the wrong foot. Take care xx

    1. realitysetin says:


      I am curious as the point was brought up by blank that I complimented your picture and you didn’t correct me. I can understand that you might have been a bit embarrassed to say it wasn’t you after someone complimented it. Can I ask you just out of curiosity, where you trying to pass off that picture of that model as yourself? I also cannot stand women or men who do that! It does come off as super fake and deceptive. Maybe you are not like that and I did notice you changed it. Anyways

      1. realitysetin,

        I was actually never going to post my own picture on the internet.
        My previous avatar was Boris Vallejos’ Peresephone..
        I did pick that image because I was told once by a female narc who was trying to seduce me, that I must have posed for that image. LOL. I thought she was just talking flattery, but I was surprised myself when I saw it, that it was such a close likeness.But that was nearly 30 years ago.
        What little you can see of me in my avatar, I am comfortable with.
        Although usually i don’t look so flippin’ happy.
        (actually I was trying to look unapproachable)

        1. RealitySetsIn says:

          Lol..yeah I have been sick with the flu like for a week now can’t work can’t nothin! Lol and I was just sitting on the floor where the sun from my window could come in on my face and make me feel better. Then I just snapped a pick hair all messy no makeup and holy jeans! Who cares it’s just me and I’m not trying. It’s been so cold here like the other day it was 10 degrees anyways but yeah these days I just try to be more myself in picks and not a glamour shot. I like it it’s more natural. Even if hair is I brushed and no make up lol!!! Yours looks fine too! 🙂

          1. geyserempath says:

            RealitySetsIn – you really are beautiful! I changed mine to what I really look like, but temporarily. Not sure why I am afraid of him, it’s not as though I would lose anything as I never had anything with him to begin with…

        2. geyserempath says:

          RealitySetsIn: I am afraid of my narc and if he finds this site, I didn’t want him to think I had found out what he was and was telling the world about him. I chose the complete polar opposite of me for a photo to disguise me should he ever come here. I thought a photo of someone opposite might put him off the scent should he ever find this site. If I misled anyone I apologize, but I don’t want him to know I am here trying to escape him. I guess I shouldn’t care if he knows, but I can’t help it. I will put up one of mine if I can blur it a little….or something. When you said I was beautiful I took it to mean inside not outside or I would have corrected you.

        3. geyserempath says:

          Perse, I love that story about your avatar and I like your photo! Perhaps I should just bite the bullet and put up a real photo and screw the narc!

      2. narc affair says:

        Hi geyser empath…im the same way afraid my narc would find my posts and realise i knew exactly what he was and guess what…i think he has. I used to post on the facebook page of this blog and around that time shortly after he started shelving me on and off and really changed.
        Its been a year since ive posted there and im not as shelved but he still isnt what he was the first few years. Hes brought up narcissism and termnology so im pretty certain he seen my posts. Beware of facebook its impossible to be private. Even my closed groups im in im careful what i post.
        If i wasnt with him i wouldnt care what he saw.
        Pretty pic 🙂

        1. Jasmine says:

          I hide too. Sometimes it’s necessary.. just to be able to keep moving forward and healing. Do what you need.
          And geyserempath, you remind me of my cousin. 🙂 she’s beautiful inside and out.

          1. geyserempath says:

            Perse, Jasmine, NarcAffair – I thank you for the compliments. Perse is correct, we can use any avatar because here everyone knows us by name, so I think I am going back to a scenic photos…just in case!
            I want to be safe whilst healing. I love this site. HG is magnificent with his insights and education and ladies, I love every one of you here, too. xx

    2. RealitySetsIn says:

      Thank you for saying that about me. Very sweet. But as you know some of us do not see ourselves the same as others. I’m glad you put your picture up. You have really pretty eyes and you are beautiful.

      1. geyserempath says:

        Thank you, RealitySetsIn – I understand how some of us don’t see ourselves the same as others. I never had any self-esteem growing up and never did. I had “daddy” issues and he died when I was 16 so there went the hopes of self-esteem developing any further. My narc liked my legs and ass, but when I dressed up he never complimented me and ignored that I had made an effort. His comments, etc…further destroyed my self-esteem. I am now working on building it up and not caring what my Narc thinks/thought about my looks. I am trying to ween myself off his validation. You take care! xx

  6. This argument is really derailing the point.
    What the N says he likes (of course being your attributes),
    and what he SEEMS to pick next.

    My N actually told me he preferred beautiful brunettes with big breasts and tiny ass.
    That’s not me. I was a hyperactive,tomboy brainiac with blonde hair, small breasts and a muscle butt. But I was beautiful to him.

    Oddly, the one right before me, (probably non seduce able, she didn’t last more than a month) was a red head, with large breasts and butt, very beautiful.

    When I did finally meet the ex that he showed such hatred for, she was as he described physically, but “the bitch” was also very nice and friendly to me. As she departed, she said something very surprising to me. “You’re his type, small and pretty!” This supposed :”bitch” was the first person that I can ever remember telling me I was actually pretty.
    Guess my N thought I should be grateful, that after all, he thought I was beautiful, but nobody else would.

    My N was very racist, and thought all immigrants were bad and were screwing up our country.
    Yet, his mistress was an immigrant, shy, no confidence, 10 years younger than him. Pretty, but I’ll bet she didn’t think so.

    Even this last one, an immigrant from another race and country that he constantly denigrated, but i’ll bet she had no idea of his attitude, either, because he was charming, sympathetic, and generous.

    The main point of all of it is, your N does have a type:
    Anyone he can seduce who will provide FUEL!!!!!

    1. geyserempath says:

      Thank you, Perse, for putting this discussion back on its track. You are right. What the Narc says he likes can change because it all boils down to his need for fuel. You said it best: Anyone he can seduce who will provide FUEL!!!! is his type. That truth actually makes me feel better and stronger for knowing it.

  7. geyserempath says:

    Blank, you don’t know me at all, so do not make judgments about me. Do you come onto this blog to spread hate and malcontent? We here are trying to heal and you insult us. Please sod off.

    1. geyserempath says:

      Realitysetsin. Thank you for the benefit of the doubt. Despite that Blank has singled me out for cruel remarks, I am not mean and I am sorry for the next woman. The remarks I made about her appearance were told to me by someone else who knows her well.

      1. Blank says:

        Blank only singled you out because you are fake and mean.
        You take RealitySetsIn’s compliments on your appearence (it’s obvious she looked at your picture) and do not even clarify that it is not you. By the way, why did you change your profile picture so suddenly now? You must have felt that maybe there’s was a bit of truth in what I said.

    2. Blank says:

      The truth hurts, doesn’t it geyser?
      I can not stand fake people, that’s all. You pretend to be some else that is fake. You are haughty, feeling above others and deny what you do. I am no fool. I do not spread hate but I want the truth.

      I found another of your comments (the narcissisistic icisles no. 7).

      “Once I did find out I was shocked as she was not at all what he presented as his “type” and the only thing that helps is knowing that she will also be replaced.”

      This confirms what I said before. That you are mean. You are pleased to see the next victim suffer as well.

      And sorry, I will not sod off, because you can not face the truth.

      1. geyserempath says:

        Blank, what you have said is not the truth, therefore I am not hurt at all. I am not fake and I am not mean, and as I said, you do not know me. It is you that are being mean and therefore I will not take any further notice of you. I will interact with those who understand what an empath is going through and be supportive of others. At least I do not tear others down on this site as you do.

      2. Blank says:

        I do not tear anyone down. I do not mind if you are an empath or a narc, I will only point out the fakes. There are a lot more comments of yours I could copy-past here geyser and comment on them, but I do not mean to tear you down as you say.
        And I perfectly well know what empaths are going through and I feel deeply for each one of them.

  8. Nina says:

    HG, are all male narcs misogynistic? It seems that during arguments their true feelings are revealed, and every single narc I’ve been in a relationship with has deeply-ingrained chauvinism. What is your view, HG?

    Sorry I didn’t know where to ask this question. And I hope I’m not offending you with my comments, HG. I’m just trying to understand your kinds perspective. Your writings are a panacea to the pain and confusion I’ve suffered for many years, and for that I’m so very grateful. Although at times you sound alarmingly like the Narc I’m entangled with!!!

  9. geyserempath says:

    HG, another brilliant message, well-timed. It is as though you can read my thoughts. This so eloquently states what I am now accepting. I tried to be as beautiful, thoughtful, caring, and attentive as I could be. It didn’t matter. As much as I tried to figure out why he is spending all his time with a new IPSS who isn’t his type at all, this article came out. Logic is finally taking hold as I realize this is a game he plays over and over and as much as it hurts to be replaced, her turn will come too. We are all expendable fuel sources. Fuel sources that can be played with, picked up, put down, discarded, and then dusted off an resuscitated. Thank you so much for your candidness, HG.

    1. RealitySetsIn says:


      I just wanted to tell you something and I’m not trying to be shallow so please nobody take me this way. You are a very beautiful woman and I hope you know this. I’m sure you have to. I know looks are not everything but you have a lot to offer someone. It is truly his loss. He is an idiot! I’m convinced now that it does not matter how pretty you are they will still play you and run you through the cycle! They hold diamonds in their hands and they let them slip through out of their grasp as if to not fully comprehend that which they truly held. It’s such a shame. They are so blind. So blind!

      1. Nonto says:

        Thank you RealitySetsin I feel you and I receive everything you’ve just said as a woman who have been brutally crushed. I am picking up the pieces of my life now, everything in my world seems bright now I have hope for the future. I have gone back to the gym, I am getting my body back along with so much compliments, I feel beautiful and sexy and strong inside. There is hope after such horror and I know that someday I will meet someone who will wipe all this from my memory

      2. geyserempath says:

        RealitySetsIn – Thank you so much for your kind words. I don’t feel beautiful because I was conditioned by my narc to think his opinion is the only one that counts. I used to long for his approval on FB profile pics and he freely gave them. Validation! and then he stopped. I don’t feel like a diamond yet, but I am slowly working on it, thanks to HG. Mine shelved me for a coworker who has short hair (he likes long), no bustline (he loves boobs), who dresses like a tomboy (he likes femininity), thick legs (and he is a leg man), loose morals (and he hates tramps), and who has the IQ of a dishrag (I am intelligent). I know he chose her for her fuel and not her looks or intelligence and that is what helps me make sense of it. She will flirt, sext, and make him feel big and important. Most importantly it is HE that chose HER which makes her feel special and him powerful. Oh, HG…you are teaching me so well.

      3. Blank says:

        RealitySetsIn, how do you know geyserempath is a beautiful woman?

        Her picture is fake. She uses a picture of Polly Parsons. Fake people deserve fake narcissists.

    2. Blank says:

      “and as much as it hurts to be replaced, her turn will come too”

      That is really mean.

      1. geyserempath says:

        No, Blank, not mean. Truthful. That is the pattern.

      2. Blank,
        It is true, though.
        It is more meant to make sense of the discard, than to be cruel.
        The ones that came before, were discarded, too, when their fuel went stale and the N saw a shiny new appliance.
        As the cycle will continue, over and over with each new partner.

        1. geyserempath says:

          Thank you, Perse, for seeing my comment as it was meant. I wasn’t trying to be mean at all.

      3. Blank says:

        Geyserempath, you can say whatever you want to say, but you do not fool me.

        Saying “as much as it hurts to be replaced, her turn will come too”, that is mean. And you know it.

        If you would have said that you felt sorry for the next person to be going to be abused, that would have been different.

        This says who you are:

        “Mine shelved me for a coworker who has short hair (he likes long), no bustline (he loves boobs), who dresses like a tomboy (he likes femininity), thick legs (and he is a leg man), loose morals (and he hates tramps), and who has the IQ of a dishrag (I am intelligent).”

        You are haughty, you consider yourself to be better than others.
        This new woman might look like a guy, have no boobs and whatever, that doesn’t mean a thing, she could be a kind and sweet character.

        You only use a fake picture to make yourself look better. Yuck!

      4. realitysetin says:

        Wow …I guess you were right. I had no idea…yeah I forget that people can use fake pictures…silly me! But honestly inward beauty is the best and the longest lasting!

      5. realitysetin says:

        Yeah it is kinda mean to say that actually. But I think she meant that the other woman will not have his heart like she could not. I do sense a bit of harshness in the words about the other woman. Not so much empathy, however jealous can make us that way. Jealousy is as cold as the grave and I know because I have been so jealous and it makes you cold towards the person you are jealous of. I have felt very evil before while experiencing jealousy of another woman towards my man. It’s jot fun and I hate being that way. Human nature can really wreak havoc on our empathy at times! So can assholes! Oh I’m sorry Narcissists!

      6. Yolo says:


        You are correct in your observation. Makes you wonder who’s the narc. Maybe, she was vanilla and the new girl is strawberry ice cream. By the way it is pure speculation to assume the narc is a boob guy, like long hair, a leg. Considering their interest change with each victim.

  10. Nina says:

    With all due respect, it all seems like juvenile behaviour. Just like a child would discard a toy he was bored with, narcissistic behaviour seems juvenile and petty. The only difference is a child would not be malicious or be as premeditated. Please do not take offense, HG.

    1. RealitySetsIn says:

      Your so right and yes very well said. You describe perfectly to a T how it is. It’s so damn hard isn’t it. Nothing in this world feels as good does it? Nope! Yes like a drug! And you really do feel like you met the ONE! Honestly, it’s just not fair. It never was. In your mind you are thinking there is no man on earth who had ever loved me the way this man does or has ever made me feel the way this man does! You feel like you won the damn lottery only to find out there’s not even a dollar I’m the account! It’s all counterfeit. None of it was real! That’s a hard reality to come to grips with.


      I totally 100% agree with you! Juvenile and mean like a child getting bored with a toy! Also very good description!

      1. Mila says:

        Thank you, RealitySetsin, Nothing about what happened is fair. It’s been a long time for me since the last Hoover and I’m still struggling with accepting the reality. I’m not even trying to explain it anymore – I just can’t logically and emotionally accept that somebody played me so well and then threw me away in the most heartless way – and it happened multiple times over many years.

      2. Jasmine says:

        100% YES
        That pedestal is so high, falling can feel deadly. It’s devastating

  11. narc affair says:

    This is my narc in a nutshell. Hes given me so much but i will never fully have him. Hes lived his life where he belongs to no one but himself. Weve been so very close yet so very far. Theres times i feel he loves me as much as i love him but then he will do something that reminds me that a narc either cant or wont allow that. Hes lived his life a single man and will probably die a single man. He belongs to all his sources yet belongs to no one in particular except…himself. the rule of narcissism is number 1. You can have them fleetingly but they will never be held down. They decide what they give and what you get. Its always on their terms. Its always one sided.

    1. gabbanzobean says:

      Narc Affair,
      I hear what you are saying yet Piano Man still wants his wife and pledges his “allegiance” to her (his words). He makes it appear very convincing that she is his one and only.

  12. Nonto says:

    WoW HG this is so true, it’s everything I’ve experienced and also still partly experiencing. Though I am divorced but I feel like this demon will haunt me forever, I feel like there’s no end to this nightmare. Yah that’s exactly how I feel about my ex husband…he is a living breathing nightmare

  13. RealitySetsIn says:

    It’s just not FAIR…you guys are like mean teddy bears….you look so cute and want to hold you and love you…..but you guys are mean! Mean cute teddy bears! 😩🐻

    1. Bibi says:

      Yes! I knew a Mid Ranger who had the sweetest, largest, softest brown eyes. He looked like a young Al Pacino. Fucking adorable as fuck.

      Another a Lesser Somatic who resembled Ray Liotta from Goodfellas with that dark hair and green eyes. Just beautiful to look at.

      It makes it hard. They look good and know how to play us. Both were manipulative scumbags, however. Very bad men…if I could even call them men.

  14. Mila says:

    Thank you for this article, HG. You address one of the very important questions that we (so desperately) need the answer to. And your answer is very clear: no matter what we do or don’t do, no matter how much fuel, support, benefits, love we provide, no matter how physically attractive or intelligent or successful we are, eventually you will replace us, devalue us, and discard us.

    Thank you for explaining it.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Absolutely and the sooner you accept this and apply it as part of your logic, the more progress you will make.

      1. Mila says:

        Oh, HG, I wish, I wish – really really wish – it was this simple. I value your explanation so much – but it’s extremely difficult to reconcile between emotions, logic, and illusions. Coming out of narcissistic relationship, you are basically a drug addict; unfortunately, it’s much harder to leave narcissistic addiction than any other addiction. It’s very difficult to replace it with something that feels as fulfilling. Because, loving a Narcissist after an extended love bombing feels as the most fulfilling and pleasurable experience ever – so, replacing it is very challenging and it’s an unfamiliar territory. It’s even harder, when you have never allowed yourself to fall so hard for somebody until the commitment. And, finally you did. Because the love bombing was extraordinary. That one time, when you thought you met your soul mate (why wouldn’t you – he called you that almost immediately after meeting you) – and as soon as you felt that most amazing unconditional love is when you got crashed.

        The problem with reconciling it all is: you can replace addictions, as addictions only help you short term. Feeling love is something that doesn’t go away. There is no replacement. Solutions are much harder even if you understand logically what has to be done.

      2. K says:

        Love bombing is the nuclear weapon of destruction to the empath.

    2. geyserempath says:

      Well said, Mila

      1. Mila says:

        Thank you, Geyserempath!

  15. Insatiable Learner says:

    “. . . resignation is never so perfect as when the blessing denied begins to lose somewhat of its value in our estimation.” – Mr. Collins, Pride and Prejudice.

    1. K says:

      One of my favorite books. Colin Firth made an excellent Mr. Darcy.

      1. Insatiable Learner says:

        Mine too, K! Colin Firth is the best Mr. Darcy!

      2. K says:

        Excellent taste, Insatiable Learner! Colin Firth is hot!

    2. narc affair says:

      Love jane austen! My favorite would be sense and sensibility.
      A really good series im watching is poldark. It has a lot of narcissistic dynamics in it.

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