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46 thoughts on “The Narcissistic Icicles – No. 8”
Interesting Twilight and thank you for sharing about your ex.
I have been reading a little about this and it seems it depends on the person’s sleeping patterns and REM cycles For establishing if that is really the case( that a person does not dream) will take years of observation to reach a reliable conclusion .
Since I started participating in this site, I have been very interested on knowing more about how the human mind/brain functions( even during sleeping).
It will be hard to find if there is any correlation and I do not think that a narcissist ( or group of narcissists) would voluntarily go into years of observation/research to find if this is true…unless of course it serves their aims.*skratt*
Perhaps it is not relevant but just as a curious fact…
The human mind is fascinating.
I don’t believe they sleep long enough to enter REM sleep or it may be due to the way their minds developed. I believe genetics has a lot to do with both HGs kind and our kind.
Yes Twilight..it is very interesting. I will keep on researching about this topic…the human mind is fascinating …
I definitely agree with you on a group being observed, unless of course it serves a purpose.
My ex and I would have many discussions on my dreams. He became interested after I had a nightmare at his house. He told me he never experienced a dream. My husband never dreamed either. He never slept more then 4-5 hours.
Same here Twilight, the ex only slept 3-4 hrs. Now I’ve picked up the habit. It’s dreadful.
If I remember correctly, HG sleeps very little
I understand Jasmine. My husband made me go days with out sleep or very little.
@ava101 Thank you for sharing ava.
Do you mean your ex (midrange) mentioned that he didn’t dream (remembered dreaming ) or that he just had specific dreams?
My nex also encouraged me to cry. He even told me more than once he felt very happy to see me crying, as I was pretty when I cried. But if there would be people near, he got terrified they could witness it and assume it was caused by him (and usually it was).
To the ladies who were discussing (lack of) dreams above, the nex in question was a Lesser, at some level had sociopathic tendencies (his coworkers and boss pointed to him he had to improve his social skills) and he had dreams often, all of them related to either future or violent video games. They were very twisted and poorly connected to reality.
Hi carol….pretty when you cry? Smh…So twisted. Definitely a trait of a narc. They get fuel bc they caused the crying and that makes them feel they matter.
Yes, exactly. He also paid close attention to songs and smells that made me sad (because they were related to my childhood) and would fill the bedroom with them. I’m pretty convinced he has a strong sadistic streak, besides being a narc.
My nex constantly encouraged me to cry. I was brought up not to show any emotions. In my house, one didn’t cry or get angry. Happiness was the only emotion allowed.
Of course once that box was opened…., he got upset with me for crying. So again.. I kept it to myself and only cried when I was alone. I was not about to cry in front of him and give him ANY satisfaction. Nor did I wish to see the apathy on his face.
I can’t count the times he would cause me to cry then tell me to stop crying. Never yelling. Just “stop crying” with the most threatening look he could make. No tears under any circumstances. A family member killed himself…his reaction was “huh, he has on a new shirt”. Never tears.
Unless the narcissist has brought about the crying, then it is fuel and prolonged.
Otherwise, we are whiny and pathetic.
oh these are also things that you once heard yourself, a long time ago.
These dropping icicles are very thought – provoking.
This one reminds me of how I felt sometimes like I was dreaming ( well, more like a nightmare): when I asked to myself: “did he really say that?” From being caring one moment to being cruel the other just in a matter of seconds: the contrast again burning hot-freezing.
Reminds me of the nightmares one sometimes has when you are falling into a precipice, or about to fall into an abyss or in danger and exactly before you fall, before you hit the ground and die : you suddenly wake up….This is the feeling I have now: I woke up from a nightmare just exactly before being annihilated and it feels good.
Talking about dreams: my ex-narc never dreamed….I hadn’t reflected about it until now…I wonder why…
Time to do some research about it…just for plain curiosity..is it something typical in sociopathic / narcissists ?
I’m not an expert of course but I have read that psychopaths and sociopaths do not dream. But they can definitely lie and say they dream. Especially if they are trying to manipulate you as mine has in the past with his supposed dreams of us! Of course the dreams were always about me and him in the future! See I think this was part of his mirroring me in the beginning, because I was always telling him about my dreams and I tell everyone lol. Anyways then he started telling me all about his dreams. It’s laughable when I look back now, the way he mirrored me and I didn’t even realize it. I don’t know if Narcissists that are not psychopaths or sociopaths have dreams or not. But yes definitely interesting topic to research.
Yes, it is an interesting topic.
Have you found any reliable scientific research? I wonder if there is a reliable research about this. Where have you read about it? It is not that all persons that do not dream are socio/psychopath but it will be interesting to know if the majority of them do not dream or they do not remember.
Of course if you ask them they may say yes or no depending which answer serves their aims best.
I can imagine why your ex said he just dreamed about you both! How convenient.
My ex told me he didn’t dream and was always interested in mine. He also told me he only slept 4 hours a night. That I do know was a fact.
If I recall correctly, HG has said that he does not dream, or if he does he does not remember them.
Hello Narc Angel,
Yes, I know that HG has said that he does not dream or that he doesn’t remember.
My ex was a Greater ( as it has been corroborated) and he didn’t dream either or he did not remember.
That is why I am wondering if what others have experienced here may denote this as something that is present in a certain school since as far as I know there is no scientific research about that topic or is perhaps difficult to ascertain.
I am not saying that people that do not dream( or do not remember) are narcissists but I wonder if this is common of narcissists of a certain school(i.ex. Greaters) since I thought this was very peculiar.
My last ex said he didn’t dream. Then he started saying he dreamt of me every night. Who knows. I believe he was mid-range
I guess we will never know for sure if we ask some of them. Your answer is similar to what realitysertin experienced.
There might be no correlation after all…
SuperXena, based on the amount of lies he told post escape, i don’t believe a freaking thing anymore. Really struggling with that one.
On his “rank”: it could be anything. He exhibited traits in each category (depending on how much alcohol consumed) but for the most part.. MR.
Lies he told you or lies he told about you post-escape?
If it is the former it sounds like an ” emergency’ ( preventive)hoover to drag you back .
If it is the latter it sounds like part of the smear campaign they engaged into to make you appear like the “bad one” to clean his image and maintain
Oh, the consumption of alcohol surely aggravates the situation.
You are not the only one that has been in the situation of not being sure about which school the narc belongs to( or you as an empath).
Remember: it is not the label that makes the narc but the behaviours he presented the most that places him in a particular school. It is not a clear
cut placement since many behaviours/manipulations are present in every school..but there are characteristic that are typical of certain schools.
I think you told me you have already booked a consultation? This will dissipate all your doubts and help you place him correctly according to his most common /usual behaviours.
Lies he told me, lies I discovered he told me, lies he told about me, and probably plenty of lies I never found out. So disturbing.
We haven’t set a date yet. I need to do that. It’s been an emotional week. And my question list grows daily. Lol… I’m a bad student
I understand how disturbing it is. Lies, lies…but it shouldn’t be surprising now( disturbing yes) since you know that they are pathological liars.
You perhaps feel the urge to make it clear (for him or for others involved) that they are lies so the truth comes up. But please do not be tempted to do that, it will make things worse for you. Besides, if you give it a second thought:
why should you even bother that he is lying to you and about you?
The less you think and talk about him ( outside this site ) the better.
Continuing doing that just keeps the flame alive in you…extinguish the burning flame instead:
you cannot control what he does but you can control what you do by not reacting.
And definitely: do not talk to him.Have you gone completely no contact ?
I understand what you mean, it is only you the one who decides when you are ready for it . I can relate with you having many questions, I had many , many questions as well the first time . That is the point with consultations . That is positive, you learn by asking. You will get the answers you need to finally drawing the line: here and no more.
I do not think you are a bad student…quite the contrary..you are very active on this blog. It shows you are taking the first step towards moving on. Keep it that way!
Remember that the first step is deciding that you don’t want to be with him and understanding ( with knowledge) why you do not want to be with him.
Otherwise you will be stuck and go round and round and round and round over the same thoughts, making all your efforts fruitless.
Wow, this comment was a long one, I hope it helps you to find your way out!
Thank you SuperXena, you are always helpful.
I am no contact (from me: 4 mos), and stopped peeping at his social media (2.5 mos), and I’ve cut ties and blocked each avenue in, as they arrived.
The lying just really gets to me. I can’t care what he says anymore, it’s already all been said during the massive smear campaign. I’ve cut all contact, so he can’t reach me anyway. But I don’t understand how or why I was so gullible to fall for it all. Every day as i deal with the fallout, every second that i struggle, anytime my emotions get away from me, i just want to kick my own ass and scream: what were you thinking???
I hope you don’t mind me jumping in
One of the hardest things is the why….they do what they do.
While you walk through this stay true to you. People believe what they want. Gossip stops at the one who doesn’t listen to it. Sadly people love gossip.
My ex did such a good job I lost my career, my home, almost all of those I called friends and family that lived here at the time. When I say he isolate me, he did a fine job of it. Only one person was left and that was me.
I literally started over alone.
It was almost two years after the fact when HG found me. No I have never met him in my real life. His book just appeared on my desk one day. I had researched and read everything I could find on NPD. Never once did I come across HG Tudor on the internet. I hope you see why I say he found me.
Stand in what you know to be your truth, silence can say just as much as speaking.
Keep coming here, if you have not read any of HGs books I would recommend them.
If you have not had your consult with him, you will find his advice to handling your situation accurate.
I don’t mind at all. Thank you for the advice. XO
I’m so sorry you had to go through that. *hugs* I truly believe life brings us what we need, by all those little angels watching over us 🙂
I do have several of HG’s books, reading 3 at the moment. Funny thing: when I ordered my first books, one was by hg (rec by someone in the forums). I didn’t care for it and put it aside. Then I started listening to videos on YouTube and ran across Knowing the Narcissist .. didn’t like his videos either. But the more i listened, the more i understood. After listening to the Q&A videos I discovered the blog. So here I am! With all you wonderful people 💞
I know I have a ways to go, but the support here is invaluable. ❤
Didn’t care for it! Burn the heathen!
** Audible gasp while clutching pearls **
But I’m here now 😁
Indeed and you are most welcome.
(Douse the fire minions).
Your welcome Jasmine.
Do not blame yourself, that self-blame is consuming…you were trustful( not gulllible) and there is nothing wrong with it…it is a fine quality we non-narcissists have …but now we learn who to trust.
P.S. I have realised that the longer I write the higher risk of using the wrong preposition. I happen to hate the use of prepositions in any language( specially not my language) so just ignore the wrong ones. Japanese would be
Sorry Incomplete comment. Here comes the rest ….”Japanese would be an option…but not an option for me. “
I am not saying that people that do not dream( or do not remember) are narcissists but I wonder if this is common of psychopathic/ sociopathic narcissists of a certain school(i.ex. Greaters) since I thought this was very peculiar.”
I know a mid range narc who said the same.
Crying can detox the soul and is vety therapeutic.
Absolutely NA! People who think crying is a sign of weakness are wrong. People who cry are emotionally strong. Any therapist can tell you that.
Hi blank…i know for myself crying is a release. Its not to say im crying all the time but when i need to i do and i feel relief after. When you bottle up toxic emotions it affects your health and you can end up with autoimmune diseases, cancers, low immune function. Crying is normal and healthy. Any parent that teaches their child to not cry is teaching them unhealthy skills to live their life. Ive taught both my kids that its ok to cry and to let the emotion go and reflect on it. Its very soothing and its self love.
Totally agree with you n.a. It is a release. I cried a lot when with my last narc. I had to release the anxiety and pain I felt. I’m glad you taught your kids it’s ok to cry. x