The Matriarch Narcissist Knows Best





“I love you.”

“I have heard this is a good one for getting a reaction from you because this is what you always want to hear.”


“You won’t ever amount to anything.”

“Not while I am interfering in every facet of your life, controlling you and making your childhood and your adult life one long battle.”


I just thought I would call you and see how you are.”

“You do not give me enough fuel. You are an ungrateful son/daughter and I regret the day I gave birth to you.”


“It is my birthday next week and I just wondered if you had anything planned.”

“I expect something lavish and spectacular so I can be centre stage. If you haven’t planned such an event you are cruel and uncaring, just as I always thought.”


“I am proud of you.”

“For once you have done something I approve of and now I can take all the credit for it.”



“You were quite a challenge when you were younger.”

“I thought you might resist my cold-hearted manipulation of you, but I broke you in the end.”


“I suppose you have heard the sad news about your Uncle Paul dying?”

“A death! A funeral! Such a wonderful stage for me to dominate and all those relatives to suck fuel from.”


“I am trying to help you,you know?”

“I am trying to control you, stop resisting me.”


I have done so much for you. All I want is some thanks.”

“I think I have done so much for you. I need some fuel.”


“It was a joke. You take yourself so seriously.”

“It was not a joke. Damn you for seeing through it. I need to back track quickly so I am not accountable.”


“You were an accident.”

“Go on cry and make me feel powerful.”


“Your father and I have discussed this as we think…”

“I have decided….”


“Your father agrees with me so there is no point running to him.”

“Your father knows better than to contradict me.”


“I had such high hopes for you.”

“You aren’t doing what I want.”


“That never happened.”

“It did but you are not allowed to hold that against me.”


“We never thought you would leave home.”

“You were not meant to move out of my control.”


“We hardly ever see you these days.”

“You should be providing me with fuel more often.”


“You weren’t like this when you were little.”

“You were so much easier to control back then.”


“I don’t love you.”

“I don’t love you. I never have.”

73 thoughts on “The Matriarch Narcissist Knows Best

  1. EmP says:

    HG, can I ask you something (for a change)?
    Do you believe maternal instinct actually exists? Or is it just a ‘construct’?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Yes, it is called emotional empathy.

      1. EmP says:

        Nothing to do with being a mammal, the release of oxytocin, etc. then.
        Thank you so much for clarifying HG.

      2. Alexissmith2016 says:

        Hmmm interesting question Emp.

        HG when Mother’s talk about not experiencing that immediate bond with their newborn could that be because they’re an N or is it more likely an empath, BecuSe an Empath would genuinely be distressed by this.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          May be a Lesser exhibiting a lack of awareness with regard to such a comment and it would be stated flippantly.
          A Mid Ranger would feign the bond not realising it to be false even though they feel nothing.
          An empath may also express a lack of the bond but would be troubled by it.
          A Greater does not have children, they are pulled fully formed from the spawning vat.

  2. saskia says:

    Caroline, you are certainly not alone with your experience. I relate and understand your feelings. It’s sad to read what your mother did when you were a young girl and very vulnerable. Her remarks were downright cruel. It seems that she perceived you as a threat and feared that you would outshine her eventually and therefore, she felt the need to belittle, insult and put you down. Competitive parenting is twisted, confusing, very harmful and a huge red flag. I experienced similar put-downs and insults – particularly when I was growing significantly taller than my mother. Again, I can relate and I’m sorry you had to go through that.

  3. Caroline R says:

    Hey other Perfect Daughters of N-Mothers — you know who you are. The overachieving and overly responsible beauties here at narcsite. I’m wondering what occupations we have naturally found ourselves suited to growing up in our families.
    Care to share?
    Hmmmm, HG, if this has piqued your interest, can you do a poll?
    Of course there are loads of variables in terms of research, but from a sociological perspective it would be interesting.

    1. 2SF says:

      Caroline, my first choice was art school, but mother didn’t allow that, because ‘that is for hippies’ (my parents are very strict religious). Second choice was travel agent (or anything in travel business), wasn’t allowed that either because I’d have to work on sundays (which was only allowed in medical occupations). So finally I became a secretary of board. Serving the narcs 😏

      1. Caroline R says:

        Thanks for replying 2SF! That’s so interesting. I can imagine the conversations as your mother made it all about her.
        Your emoji made me laugh til I had tears. That look says it all!

    2. windstorm says:

      Caroline R
      Well I’m not really overachieving and I’m definitely not perfect! I also wasn’t a “good” daughter in that I was very rebellious from about age 8. I have no idea what occupation my mother would have preferred for me – most assuredly something that wouldn’t suit. Lol! My first university degree was a BA in foreign languages and she certainly believed that was the most useless waste of money I could have chosen!

      I used my “useless degree” to get a job in exports for a very large company and then later became a farmer for a time, but my long-term career was teaching. I went back to university and got another degree (BS) in science education and I became a middle-school teacher. That way I could have the same time off as my own children as they came through the school system. Now I am retired, thanks be to God, and do whatever I choose. 😄

      1. Caroline R says:

        Thanks for replying Windstorm…and you say you’re not high achieving.
        I beg to differ!
        I find it interesting that your children’s welfare has been a high priority for you. That speaks volumes. What a fantastic teacher you would have made. I imagine you left a deep positive impression on your students.
        I can imagine your mother loudly and repeatedly voicing her displeasure at your choices; I wonder if she secretly bragged about you to others? What do you think?
        She couldn’t take any credit for any of your achievements. Those are all reflections of your tenacity and intelligence.

        1. windstorm says:

          Caroline R

          Thank you. I’d like to think I was a good science teacher. I have a tremendous interest in how phenomena work in the world around me and view the world as a constant source of wonder. And of course my children’s welfare has and will always be important to me. It was very hard for me as a mother, having been an only child – raised alone on a farm with two narc parents. I always felt out of my depth as a parent, but I did the best I could.

          It was sort of humorous how my mother reacted to my education. Her two sisters went to college, but they didn’t have enough money for her to go. This was a massive disappointment for her she felt all her life. She wanted me to go to university and get a degree, so she could brag about it to all and sundry, but at the same time she was horribly jealous and very insulting to my Pretzel and myself making fun of our “college trained minds.” She wanted me to get degrees and excel, but at the same time it tore her up for me to have something she’d wanted but didn’t have. It was comical how she’d flip back and forth and contradict herself. I do know she got enormous satisfaction that her sister’s two children dropped out and didn’t get degrees, but her daughter finished and graduated.

          She could and did always take credit for all of my achievements. Ha, ha! I’ll give her credit for filling out the paperwork and filing the forms to get me a full four year scholarship. That’s what let me have the financial freedom to study whatever I wanted and escape her control (probably a consequence she did not foresee!) 😄

    3. Becoming Observant says:

      When I consistently scored in the 99th percentile on standardized tests, mom said it was not bc I was smart. It was because the other people taking those tests were dumb.

      When my older sister (the family favorite) died, she was deified. She was already prettier, funnier, thinner, more popular, better liked, better everything. When I came across a box with all of our school records, I saw that she was a C-student. I scored higher than her, academically, in everything. I asked my mom why she couldn’t give me that? I saw that I was better at one thing than the sister I was always compared to, and her answer was “You were not smarter. Your sister just didn’t try. She was too busy with friends and dates, she did not care. Had she applied herself, you’d see that she was smarter than you, too.”

      I started college as a physics major. Mom told me I wasn’t smart enough, that I only chose it for “shock value”. She pressured me into changing majors to journalism, like she did. That evolved into advertising, a wasted degree. One of my kids is now a physics major.

      My saving grace: I escaped. I moved three states away after college. I thought it was to find a job. What I discovered is that, while there is no “normal” family (and anyone trying to be that vanilla is boring), a family of ppl that embrace each other’s accomplishments, laugh with each other about their weaknesses, and does not live in fear of disappointing each other: that’s a happy life.

      Mom was left to live under her mother’s control (the grand-narc). She was very jealous that I could come visit, then leave before any “ugly” came out. She chose to live in it, duplicate it.

      I attract narcs. That will never change. I have a hard time identifying them; I get hyper-vigilant snd treat non-narcs as narcs sometimes. Bottom line: if you have to walk on eggshells around anyone, afraid of setting them off, edit them from your life. Feel the anvil lift.

      1. windstorm says:

        Becoming Observant
        “Bottom line: if you have to walk on eggshells around anyone, afraid of setting them off, edit them from your life.”

        Absolutely. Good advice.

        1. 69Revolver says:

          Becoming Observant
          “Bottom line: if you have to walk on eggshells around anyone, afraid of setting them off, edit them from your life.”

          Dang. I have quite the list to expunge. Guess there goes my job, too…

          Happy Thanksgiving America! 🦃

  4. WiserNow says:


    You have written numerous articles and comments that mention your mother and how you feel about her. I haven’t seen many instances where you mention your father and how you feel about his behaviour and his involvement in your childhood and upbringing.

    What is your general, overall attitude towards your father? It would be very interesting to know.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      See the articles about the Crying Game.

      1. WiserNow says:

        Thanks HG, I will.

  5. WiserNow says:

    The sad fact is that a narcissistic mother never, ever changes, no matter what. My mother is currently very unwell and suffering from excessive fatigue and weakness. Has this reduced her narc tendencies? Not at all. In fact, I think it has strengthened them.

    It is extremely difficult to know what to do in these circumstances. She is very conflicted and contradictory, however, the narcissism remains in place. In reality, it’s obvious she needs care and compassion, and I believe she actually craves care, sympathy and reassurance. If you give this to her though, if it’s a good day and the stars have aligned, she is grateful and calm and you are a good daughter. If it’s a bad day and the stars have not aligned for some reason, you are a bad daughter and what you do is never enough, or you did it wrong, or you aren’t there when she really needs you, etc.

    Anything can set her off, and it’s usually because you resisted some effort of hers to press you even harder under her thumb, regardless of the many other things you did do and have always done to care for her. There is a constant environment of toxicity and walking on eggshells. It requires strong boundaries, logical thinking, internally positive self-dialogue, and limited exposure to deal with it all and remain balanced.

    It just makes me think how resistant this personality disorder is to healthy relationship dynamics. No amount of good role models or supportive care seems to make a difference or lead to improvement. It is very entrenched despite it being very toxic.

    It makes me think that it’s either biological and therefore, simply the way their brains are wired, or, that healthy emotional attachment in childhood is so vitally important that it should not be underestimated. I’m not sure which of these I believe.

    1. windstorm says:

      Wiser now
      This is all very true about narc mothers.

      As to your last paragraph, I think that they may very well both be true. I believe that how we are treated as infants and small children affects how our brains are wired. Having healthy emotional attachments in our earliest years can help shape the future path of children who lack natural empathy.

      1. WiserNow says:


        Thank you for your comment. Sorry for the delay in responding. I check the blog only once or twice a week lately, but I still enjoy seeing your comments as well as everyone else’s.

        I think you’re right and I agree with you – brain wiring AND early healthy attachments are both equally extremely important regarding future behaviour.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Only once or twice a week? To the Re-Education Centre with you, WN!!

          1. WiserNow says:

            Ha ha 🙂 Sorry HG! I promise to be a good appliance and to visit the blog more frequently.

            It’s just a momentary short lapse and my education is still robust, so the Re-Education Centre won’t be required 😉

  6. Sweetest Perfection says:

    I miss you. I need you. I love you.

  7. Arisa says:

    Hey HG,

    please could you tell me your view

    the mother is a narc, controlling, manipulative and calculated, not sure which type possibly a greater.
    Narc son greater, adult with successful career.

    Why does the narc son still stay at parents home with his mother and the rest of the family?
    His contemplated many times moving out but then doesn’t, is it because he doesn’t have a constant?

    She uses him for money as he has a high earning job ( he is aware she is controlling and likes the money), the family rinse him a lot. (Brothers, sister inlaws and their 8 children)

    his mother won’t let him move out and he talks about moving out leaving things on good terms, why does he even care about this?
    he is entitled to move out and feels his parents will fall out with him if he moves out without their agreement.

    She never lets him marry a women of his choice always rejects the women.

    Can a IPPS break the narc away from his narc mother and family during idealisation?
    Can the IPPS turn him against the mother?
    If so what tactics would need to be deployed?
    How does an IPPS get the narc son to move out?
    How would IPPS counter manipulate the narc mother when she is being insidious?
    How to show the narc she is a bad mother?

    He used to bad mouth her before but now he says what a good mother she is, and that she will be okay to live with?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      I would question the schools of the individuals you refer to in the described scenario and this would need further information and analysis, alongwith the questions posed, accordingly this is a matter best addressed by consultation.

    2. E. B. says:

      Hello Arisa,

      I have just read your comment and wanted to say I find it astonishing that many intelligent, well-educated, successful, adult narcissists are controlled by their ignorant, narrow-minded, uneducated NPD mothers in their private life. These MRNs believe every word their Matrinarcs say and let them take advantage of them – mostly financially but also in other ways. They do not seem to realize they are their mothers’ puppets. Maybe guilt and obligation are playing an important role.

  8. Persephone In Sunlight says:

    Hope all is well with you.
    It kind of worries me when even your minions are not updating article posts

    Hope to see you here again soon.


  9. WiserNow says:

    Hello HG,

    You have been away from the narcsite blog for a little while now. I hope you are well and everything is ok with you. Maybe you’re just having a break, or more likely, finishing off several books and planning yet another way to strengthen your “legacy” 😉

  10. Chihuahuamum says:

    Hope you are well HG weve not seen you or postings for awhile. Hurry back! 🤗

  11. Theodora says:

    Did you ever finish ‘Little Boy Lost’? Trust me it will be your masterpiece.
    Do you have any children? Probably not. Is that because you are afraid of wrecking their souls?
    I do not think you are an actual narc though.. My analysis is you emulated the behaviour but still managed to keep a lot of your soul alive.
    Hidden doesn’t mean dead.
    This blog is not giving you fuel. It’s providing you with courage to open up. Be the man your father wasn’t.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      It is still being written.
      No, I do not.

  12. Anna says:

    #15 is my MIL’s favorite. She loves revising history. Thanks for the list, HG, it makes my husband and me feel validated and helps us call her on her bullsh*^.

  13. Heyoka Muse says:

    That’s my mother……

  14. Michelle says:

    I am still not sure to what degree my mother had true symptoms of NPD, but she had some definite narcissistic tendencies. She does not, however, fit the description in this blog entry, mostly because she was a “communal” narcissist who took pride in being incredibly selfless and caring. She would do things like taking food off her plate and putting it on yours to show how selfless she was. She also made a big point of staying home with me and smothering me with attention. On the bright side, since she took so much pride in being a loving mom, I was generally treated very well. On the other hand, one must not criticize my mother’s good deeds. Daring to offer negative commentary on her home, her vacation planning, her generosity, etc. would earn wrath and, depending on her degree of investment, a silent treatment. Unlike many narcissistic moms, she did not hold out my academic or personal accomplishments as evidence of her worth; I needed to show that I was perfectly loved and well-adjusted and very grateful. This meant that when I asked to go to therapy in my teens for severe anxiety, the answer was no, I was fine, I did not need therapy. One did not have bad feelings or act sad or cry. When I left for a university far away, my mother lamented that I had not considered her at all in my choice of college — who would she care for in my absence? When I dared to move out of the house permanently at . . . wait for it . . . age 24, she said there was no way I would do that unless I was angry at her. Adult me offered disappointingly few opportunities for her to shower me with caring. I still get totally mixed up when I try to sort out her self-conscious goodness with her actual altruism, and I am not totally convinced that she completely lacked the latter, either.

    1. Mona says:

      Michelle, your mother is an engulfing narcissistic mother. HG does not describe that kind of narc mom, probably because he never experienced such a kind.
      Such a mother swallows the identity of her children until there is nothing left. She denies that you have an identity of your own. She tries to create a never-ending symbiosis, which – of course- is dominated by her..
      Her altruism serves only one need, her own selfish need to get recognition. Her altruism is no real altruism, although it seems to be that way at first sight.

    2. WiserNow says:

      I can relate to this very much Michelle. Thank you for your comment. It resonates with my own experience and makes me see things more clearly.

      My mother is very similar in many respects. I also feel that there were many aspects of my childhood that were positive and I was treated well. But, I was also the scapegoat and the lost child at times too. I had many negative experiences at the same time as having positive ones. As a child, this caused emotional confusion and distrust. For a long time, it was hard to know what was real and what wasn’t. And the need to appear “perfect” to others has a personal cost that runs deep.

      Now, when I look back, I can see it all more clearly. Time and knowledge helps to unravel the confusion, and self-knowledge and self-care leads to greater trust overall.

    3. Caroline R says:

      My mum has some elements of this too Michelle, and on reflection I suppose that she liked me to be dependant on her. It made her feel important to be indispensable to me. She liked to lower my self confidence in some ways, even though she would vehemently deny it. She hated me going to clubs; I was forever being pumped with fear-inducing tales of drugged drinks etc.
      I went anyway.
      And loved it. Once I got over the false guilt of being allowed to live my own life. That took quite a few years.

  15. Lou says:

    “My good friend’s daughter is mentally ill, tried to kill her mother and is now in a home for mentally ill people. Her poor normal mother is devastated”
    That is exactly what I want you to think I and everyone around me think of you. There is something very wrong with you.


  16. mollyb5 says:

    Yuck. I don’t have a narc mom. But that is my husbands mother all day , everyday. She didn’t go to college … only decorates to show a certain image ….wants to write her own obituary and never would write love on cards she gave to me ….I never earned her love …ick

  17. Kathy Mor says:

    That makes me miss my grandmother!

  18. Becoming Observant says:

    HG, do mid-rangers (who cannot see their narcissism) generally seek vengeance when challenged or escaped? Or is that something that only malign/elite narcissists do? For that matter: are mid-rangers ever malign?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Generally speaking they do not as they are passive aggressive and cowardly, but if circumstances allow they may do so, but is not usual. Yes, they can act in a malign fashion.

  19. saskia says:

    This hit quite a nerve. I guess I am still too much of a ‘good daughter’ as I still find myself in denial about most of what had happened in my childhood. I don’t want to sound pathetic nor do I want to blame and accuse my parents and especially my mother of ‘doing it all wrong’, but the actual truth is that even today, I never truly called what has happened as it was.

    I have heard many of those sentences – these days, it is more the seemingly positive “I am so proud of you.” Or, when my brothers or I achieve anything that is of value or a success in my mother’s eyes, it is most often “of course you do, you are my children after all” and such like. I have never even once heard my father say anything in that regard.

    When I was a child, I was told that I was „truly difficult and quite hard to love that way.“ Admittedly, I was a stubborn child on occasion and not always easy to deal with as I would ask many questions and not always be satisfied with my parents’ explanations. My mother would repeatedly tell me that I „needed to be sent to a psychologist“ but never followed through with that vague announcement which, as a child, frightened and confused me. I felt that because of what my mother told me, there was something wrong with me even though I didn’t know what it was.

    It was like anything hurt- or harmful she ever did – she would do it without giving it a second thought, without even a moment of (re-)consideration. Whereas I appreciate and respect that most people do make mistakes out of situational thoughtlessness and merely because they are human, I felt that with my mother, it was a thought- and recklessness that she would neither reflect nor take any responsibility for at all. Even as a young child, I felt that she was immature and therefore unsafe.

    For example, I am naturally left-handed, and she trained me to use my right hand for writing when I started school. I remember those long afternoons where, after I had done my homework and instead of playing with the kids outside, I was forced to practice writing with my right hand. My mother would observe and assist me by occasionally holding my left hand behind my back, thus forcing me to suppress my natural reflex. I remember that it felt torturous and painful as my right hand was very clumsy and I gradually lost joy in writing which also had an impact on how I would perceive the process of learning.

    I never really thought much about this incident until some people, neutral outsiders, reacted perplexed when they got to know the reason why I would not use my dominant hand. It was for this reason, that spontaneous and natural reaction, that I confronted my mother once about why she made that decision back then. I did not accuse her of any malicious intent; it was just a question out of curiosity about her reasons. I guess she trained me without taking into consideration that it might have a negative impact – she thought there was none – and for maintaining a facade. I was the only child in class who was left-handed, so I would rather stand out as an ‘exception’ to the rule.

    She would, without even a second of consideration, answer that I, a child of six years at that time, wanted it that way. The tone of her voice revealed that she was angry about my question. She would then tell me that it did not harm me at all and, this was the most hurtful comment, that it did not matter at all whether I used my right or my left hand. My instant reaction was “who was she to decide that.” Her way of rationalizing and denying any accountability and of ‘just knowing better’ – in front of her adult daughter – was astounding, especially since I recently learned that, at least in my home country, forcing left-handers to use their right hand is considered bodily harm by law these days.

    There are many other examples but as this conversation happened not too long ago, I felt like sharing as a response to this article and part of my personal experience.

    1. WiserNow says:

      I am sorry that you experienced that Saskia. It is painful to remember these kinds of childhood experiences. It is also hard to work through the deeply embedded emotions and behaviours they caused. It takes time and focus.

      The good thing is that it can be done, and in the end you will be even more strong and more “yourself” than you would otherwise be. You are smarter, more capable, and more “perfect” than your mother ever made you believe. Please remind yourself of that as often as possible. Best wishes to you.

      1. saskia says:

        WiserNow, thank you very much for your kind words and your encouragement. That is much appreciated. Best wishes to you too.

    2. Caroline R says:

      Hi Saskia,
      I want to tell you that it’s good to have you here with us. We need to be able to share with other daughters of N-Mothers who totally understand.
      I’ve felt soooooo much guilt looking at things the way they really are, & not just the brainwashed version we had to believe to survive. It’s false guilt, inappropriate under the circumstances.
      Of course we were in denial, otherwise it would mean that we were trapped with unsafe adults and our little hearts and minds just couldn’t accept that and live. So denial it had to be.
      Thank you for sharing your experiences and perspective with us. Please don’t use the word ‘pathetic’ in conjunction with yourself ever again.
      You’re precious.
      From Caroline who is also left-handed, and who had ‘good daughter’ as her job description too.

      1. saskia says:

        Thank you very much for your kind response and your input, Caroline R. Your ‘good daughter as a job description’ made me smile – although I have to admit that I wasn’t the perfect, ‘good daughter’ in my teenage years when I found my own way to rebel against my parents and our family dynamics.

        Whenever I read what other people had to go through or when they even hint to the extent of abuse they had to endure in their childhood, I feel pathetic when sharing parts of my experience. But perhaps that is precisely what living in denial means.

        It is challenging to work through all of that and see more clearly but fortunately, it is manageable.

    3. Caroline R says:

      Addit to Saskia
      I’ve only just now realised that I was always afraid of my mother. That was deeply entwined with love for me. Always wanting to please, and never quite achieving it. I
      I also just remembered that when my Dad would come home from work, we would be sitting at the dinner table, and I’d get under it because I was afraid of him too. She’d rage, and he was passive aggressive, and would lash out suddenly, so I’d never see it coming.
      Our childhoods were lived to the soundtrack of walking on eggshells.
      Hypervigilent to detect micro mood changes.
      I’ve put my special detection skills to good work however: I work in theatre recovery, and I can see the slightest change in an unconscious patient, and respond appropriately. I can detect tiny meaningful changes on ECGs.

      1. 2SF (Blank) says:

        “Our childhoods were lived to the soundtrack of walking on eggshells.
        Hypervigilent to detect micro mood changes.”

        Caroline, it was exactly the same for me. Afraid of mother and walking on eggshells. Do you also wonder if being a HSP is because of this, or if it is something neurological? I always see the slightest changes in someones face when they talk. I feel how they feel. Other people seem not to notice this.

    4. Caroline R says:

      My mum had a twisted bifurcated internal dynamic where I had to be perfect to reflect well on her (& she’d push this), but then there was the spiteful competitive streak that also determined her behaviour towards me. No, it was bigger than a streak. It went to the bone, as ugliness always does.
      So I’d regularly submit to her sabotage and etc. When I was thirteen, nearly fourteen, she became obsessed with my hair. She was sexually jealous of course, ugh! (*represses wave of revulsion*) but she forced me to use this grandma purple rinse shampoo on my long naturally light blonde hair. “It’s brassy” she’d hiss at me, i.e. “you look like a you’re easy”.
      I was a child.
      I had no idea what she was talking about.

      So, trauma-bonded me went to school for two weeks with purple hair. (My “no” had been crushed long ago. I did as I was told).
      People commented.
      None of it complimentary.
      None of it less than humiliating.
      It might have been longer than two weeks. I had blocked out that memory completely until now.

      It WAS longer than two weeks, I can remember a box of semi-permanent dye she used on me during that observe phase of hers.

      This from the woman who told us that she was approached a couple of times when we were little to become child photographic models. Her reason for declining the casting agents’ requests?
      “I wanted you to grow up normal”

      Oh, the irony!!!

      1. Caroline R says:

        It should say ‘ during that obsessive phase of hers’, not ‘observe phase’. Blasted autocorrect.

      2. 2SF says:

        Don’t mention the hair! What is it with Matrinarcs and their daughters hair? I’m sorry your mother did that to you Caroline. There is something weird about them wanting you to look nice, so they can show you off, but on the other hand being jealous of your looks (I never thought I looked good, but I also noticed my mother was jealous sometimes).

      3. Caroline R says:

        It’s so good to know I’m not alone here. I really appreciate all of your comments and your depth of insight and understanding.

  20. Arisa says:

    Dear HG,
    How to make a greater lesser narcissist see that his narc mother is manipulative, controlling and calculated?
    Even though he occasionally says she is, when he rages because of an injury caused by her or another family memeber. She plays on his ego all the time. It is like he knows but then lets it slide
    How to break him away from his family?
    The family use him for his money and shes very controlling and is making it difficult for him to move out even though he is a grown man and has a successful career.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      There is no point in attempting to do this because you are continuing to engage with a narcissist which is contrary to the first golden rule of freedom.

  21. 2SF says:

    “I just thought I would call you and see how you are.”

    For once I wish she would say that, instead of ‘I thought I’d call you because I don’t hear from you at all’..

    Matrinarc being dismissive is a ‘normal’ given, but is there anyone here who’s mother really said out loud “I don’t love you”? I thought matrinarcs would pretend they do love you?

    1. Caroline R says:

      Hi 2SF/Blank,
      Just want to say hi and wish you peace, continued healing and happiness, and comfort for all of those things that make your heart ache.
      Daughters of N-Mothers is a special club. We understand the Battle.

      1. 2SF says:

        Thanks Caroline, that is very sweet! Wishing you the same! 🤗

  22. 1jaded1 says:

    How is momma doing?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Still breathing. Unfortunately.

      1. HappyTimesAhead says:

        Will your life fundamentally change when your mother passes? I can understand you may still harbour anger and resentment, but you are not her.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          It will and the extent depends on the completion of other matters.

      2. windstorm says:

        “Still breathing. Unfortunately.”

        This made me laugh! Come on, HG. If your mother dies before you finish your grand design, wouldn’t you feel somewhat thwarted? One can’t really get revenge on the dead. Or perhaps it would eliminate the need for much extra work and effort?

        Very glad you have the time to be posting again now!

      3. Caroline R says:

        Ha ha ha!

  23. IdaNoe says:

    Awesome! Right on the money. I’ve heard those exact phrases many times. Oh and BTW, congratulations on hitting the 12 million mark!

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Thank you.

  24. foolme1time says:

    I could read this a million times, each and every time it breaks my heart! I’m sorry for the pain your mother caused you as a child HG. 😪🌺

  25. MommyPino says:

    This is so true.

  26. 69Revolver says:

    I just threw up in my mouth a little.

  27. chardsofglass says:

    So very true. It’s something for something. Always with them. There is no repreave. Then there’s the hellatious thoughts in our own brains. The heart hardens. It doesn’t matter empath or narcissist. Part of each parties heart’s dies.

  28. Habes Nicht says:

    Spot on.
    I had parents like this, as well as older “parent-by-proxy” siblings.

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