Narcissist v Shelf IPSS


The following is a breakdown of an interaction between a Middle Mid-Range Narcissist and a Geyser Standard Empath. The two are in a Formal Relationship of Narcissist and Shelf IPSS (“SIPSS”), which those not benefiting from such knowledge would see as a married person who is having an affair with someone who is The Other Woman/Man.

  1. The narcissist and the SIPSS have spent the weekend together away in a coastal city. Therefore the SIPSS is off the shelf for the extent of the duration. She is painted white. The narcissist received positive fuel of a very good potency (SIPSS), massive quantity (in person, sexual interaction) and constantly (together all weekend).

2. The weekend ends and they leave the coastal city together. SIPSS off shelf and painted white.

3. The two part company and return to their respective homes. The SIPSS is now ON the shelf. This is not devaluation. The SIPSS remains painted white.

4. The following day, SIPSS sends a text to the narcissist

“It was great spending the weekend with you. I can’t wait until we do it again.”

This is pure positive fuel. Very good potency, one off frequency, very low quantity as short and in writing.

There is no response for an hour. The narcissist responds with

“It was great. Yes, we will do it again soon. I have a busy week ahead, so I will text you later on. Missing you.”

The SIPSS remains on the shelf. She remains painted white. This was a comfort crumb from the narcissist. It was pleasant, it maintains the engagement but signals to the SIPSS that she should not expect to hear from the narcissist often.

5. The following day there is no contact between the two. This is not a Silent Treatment, the SIPSS remains on the shelf and painted white.

6. The day after, the narcissist is reminded of the weekend. The SIPSS has entered his sixth sphere of influence. This is a Hoover Trigger. His Intimate Partner Primary Source has gone out for the evening unexpectedly. She in devaluation. Her departure has wounded the narcissist, he sends her an unpleasant text to provoke her in order to gain fuel. He requires fuel to address the wound, he can easily contact the SIPSS by text, social media or telephone, she has no partner, she has not wounded him, she provides excellent fuel and therefore the Hoover Bar is very low and the Hoover Execution Criteria are met. The narcissist telephones SIPSS. She has been taken off the shelf. They speak, fuel is provided, he berates his wife to the SIPSS (triangulation) and speak for about an hour. The call ends. The SIPSS goes back on the shelf and remains painted white.

7. There is no contact between the two of them for three days.

8. The SIPSS sends a text message early in the morning to the narcissist

“How are you? Just wanted to let you know I am missing you.”

Positive fuel. Very good potency, one-off frequency, very low amount.

There is an instant response from the narcissist by text

“I miss you too.”

The SIPSS sends a further text.

“I cannot wait until we can see one another again.”

Positive fuel, very good potency, one-off frequency, very low amount.

There is no response from the narcissist. The SIPSS remains on the shelf. She is painted white. The narcissist has not given a silent treatment but the lack of response is purely symptomatic of being on the shelf.

9. The following day the SIPSS texts the narcissist again early in the morning

“Hi, are you okay?”

Positive fuel, very good potency one-off frequency, very low amount.

There is no response. The SIPSS is still on the shelf, painted white and this is not a silent treatment.

10. She waits thirty minutes and texts again

“Please will you answer me, I hate not hearing from you.”

Positive fuel, very good potency, one-off frequency, very low amount.

Ten minutes later the narcissist replies by text

“I was in the shower. Busy day ahead. Will text later.”

This is a comfort crumb. The SIPSS is on the shelf and painted white.

11. There has been no contact between the two and it is now 5pm. The SIPSS texts again

“I really find it hard not hearing from you.”

This is positive fuel, very good potency, one-off frequency, very low amount.

There is no response from the narcissist. The SIPSS is on the shelf and painted white.

12. She waits ten minutes and texts again

“I thought you said you were going to text me later? This hurts.”

This is now Challenge Fuel. Her admission of hurt is negative fuel (albeit a very small amount as it is contained in a text) – however she is seeking to hold the narcissist to something he stated. The narcissist is NOT wounded by this, but regards this as a challenge to his superiority because the SIPSS is trying to make him feel accountable and this feels like his control is being eroded.

13. The narcissist replies with a text two minutes later

“I told you I had a busy day ahead, I am in a meeting.”

He is providing an explanation and asserting his superiority by looking to close the matter. He has not been provocative and is not seeking fuel from the SIPSS.

14. The SIPSS answers immediately

“Sorry, I didn’t know. When will you text me, or will you give me a call?”

This is Challenge Fuel again. The apology is a very small amount of positive fuel, the request for a call is mildly Challenging BUT aggregates with the earlier text message. The narcissist has not been able to assert the superiority to the extent required.

He texts back immediately

“No idea. V busy. Cannot talk now.”

He is not seeking fuel (he will be well fuelled whatever he is doing – maybe in the meeting or if not in a meeting in some other interaction) but needs to assert superiority and is seeking to close the challenge down. The SIPSS remains on the shelf and remains painted white

15. The SIPPS does not relent. She texts back straight away :-

” Will it be tonight? I want to talk to you, I always enjoy our chats. I hate not hearing from you.”

Again positive Challenge Fuel.

There is no response from the narcissist. His lack of response is designed to assert superiority by halting the conversation and thus the challenge from the SIPSS. The SIPSS remains on the shelf and painted white.

16. The SIPSS texts again :-

“Will it be tonight? I want us to talk, please.”

No response from the narcissist. Same point as above applies.

17. The SIPSS texts again :-

“Just yes or no, that’s all, I miss you.”

Positive Challenge Fuel.

No response from the narcissist. Same point as above applies.

18. The SIPSS texts again :-

“Will you answer me? It will only take you a second. Don’t ignore me.”

Negative Challenge Fuel. The irritation is fuel and the request to answer, prescriptive statement on the time taken and command not to ignore are the challenges.

No response from the narcissist. Same point applies.

19. The SIPSS texts again :-

“Answer me. This is not fair. Stop ignoring me. You had better answer me or I will call you at home on the landline.”

Negative Challenge Fuel. Annoyance plus criticism and threat.

20. The narcissist responds

“I said I am BUSY. Stop texting me. I said I would text you later but you cannot leave it can you? You dare ring my house. If you do, that’s it, it’s over. You’ve pissed me off.”

The narcissist is irritated by the SIPSS failure to accede to his superiority. She is not wounding because fuel is being provided.

The SIPSS repeated failure to stop texting and be patient now means she is painted black. She has failed to accept the narcissist’s superiority. She has not been compliant. The narcissist will now ignore her texts completely. She is being given a Corrective Devaluation which is an absent silent treatment.

21. The upset SIPSS fires off ten more texts. She makes no threats but insults the narcissist and complains about him being unfair and uncaring. These are either pure fuel or challenge fuel. The narcissist does not respond. The SIPSS realises there will be no response so she stops texting. She does not call the home landline.

The narcissist, in accordance with the Corrective Devaluation does not contact the SIPSS at all that night.

The SIPSS is on the shelf, painted black and subject to a Corrective Devaluation.

22. The next day the SIPSS sends a text at midday

“I am really sorry I pestered you yesterday, I know you work hard, it is only because I wanted to hear from you. I won’t do it again. I adore you and I will just wait to hear from you.”

This is pure positive fuel. The narcissist on reading this instinctively recognises that his superiority has been accepted again by the climbdown. The text is a Hoover Trigger. The narcissist sees this climbdown and views the SIPSS as white again. The Hoover Execution Criteria are met and he telephones the SIPSS. The conversation only last 5 minutes but he assures the SIPSS that they will speak tonight.

The SIPSS is still on the shelf, painted white and the Corrective Devaluation has ended.

23. The narcissist recalls his promise to call. This is a Hoover Trigger. The Hoover Execution Criteria are met (he recalls excellent fuel from the SIPSS, she is easy to contact, she has not wounded, there are no obstacles) and thus he does indeed telephone her and they speak for two hours that evening whilst the IPPS is out at the rifle range. For this telephone call the SIPSS is off the shelf, painted white. Positive fuel is provided during the conversation. It is of very good quality as coming from an SIPSS, the frequency is constant for the duration of the call and it is of moderate quantity since it is a telephone call.

Once the call ends, the SIPSS is back on the shelf and painted white.

24. Around midnight with the IPPS sound asleep and the narcissist in his bolthole, he recalls the telephone call (hoover trigger) and again the Hoover Execution Criteria are met ( similar to points above at 23) so he sends a text to the SIPSS. She replies immediately. They text back and forth for an hour. During this exchange the SIPSS is off the shelf and painted white. Positive fuel is provided. It is of very good quality, very frequent and low quantity because it is in writing. The narcissist is in-between engaging with another SIPSS online through social media and thus has two fuel lines open at this point.

When the texting ends, the SIPSS is placed back on the shelf and is painted white. The narcissist engages still with the other SIPSS and does so through Skype engaging in some mutual masturbation. Once that has concluded, the call ends and that SIPSS goes on the shelf also.

Accordingly, this short series of interactions provides the pattern of behaviours, clarifies how the appliance is regarded, how a Corrective Devaluation works, shows the shift from white to black to white, the fuel gathered, the type of interaction occurring and also the entwinement with other appliances also.




71 thoughts on “Narcissist v Shelf IPSS

  1. Supernova DE says:

    Thank you for the examples HG. Possible for a mid ranger to purposely benign hoover an IPSS while she was painted black (to ensure she was still bonded), then place her back on the shelf to torture later?
    Thank you in advance.

    That sounds awful!! How terrifying to a young girl!
    I can see I got a few malign hoovers when painted black on the shelf. But mostly the MMRN was just silent when he was ticked at me.

    1. HG Tudor says:


    2. K says:

      Thank you Supernova DE
      Sadly, I was used to that type of violence by the age of eight.

  2. tigerchelle78 says:

    Reading this, definitely feels like a few pennies just dropped.

    I feel very much the SIPSS, and those excuses he gives, and the things he says back, and how he says them, like: “they are in a meeting” they always seem to be in a bloody meeting when you want them!

    I could give you several text exchanges that just happened similar to this.

    I realised they only want you when THEY want you, at their calling, not yours. And whenever you moan or ask what’s going on or why, its like you are not allowed to know, its top secret and you do not have the correct password!

    The silences come, and you are going frantic in your head because of no response (even worse when you BPD and spiralling)….sometimes if you are lucky they throw you a yummy little biscuit at you like you are a dog! Just to shut you up! That is exactly how it is. And often I throw it straight back, as if to say: “what the f#$% do you want me to do with that?”

    I remember only last week or so, he saying: “maybe I don’t want to deal with all your shit” when I asked why he hasn’t been responding, and he said he would try to respond more and his actions were not following his words …..and immediately I said: “no you shouldn’t have to, nobody should have to deal with my shit, I’m sorry”…..because I was hurt….

    Another exchange was, I was trying to communicate with him, and he said he was ironing a shirt and then off to bed, but he was online on both whatsapp and FB messenger, so I thought it was odd, so then it dawned on me he is talking with someone else too obviously duh! So I blocked him. Then he sent me an email saying: “I was talking to my girlfriend if you hadn’t already realised.”

    Only a few days ago, I said to him: “have you given up on me”….. He replied saying: ” no I have not but you make it difficult”…… So I just said back: ” all good practice for you, nothing comes easy with me, so get used to it.”

    Yes I have grown weary of these biscuits! I do not like be sitting on his shelf, and I’m not very patient, nor quiet!

    Nope I can’t do it anymore! But I left him with an email saying: “nobody can love him like I can with as much passion, nobody will ever fight so hard to stay in contact with him as long as I have, and nobody will EVER find it so hard to let go of him like I have!”

    And he f#$%in well knows it!

    (Sorry for language, and anger, but I’ve been in this situation a good couple of years now….. I’m done!)

    1. Lori says:

      I hate to tell you Tigerchelle that no he doesn’t know nor does he care. There are probable my 2 or more of you. You have to get your mind around the fact that he does not care. Nope not one bit. He is bored of you and offti the shelf you go

      1. tigerchelle78 says:

        It is ok that he does not care, and even that there are perhaps a few of us. I just do not wish him to lie to me and pretend he does care. Either care and love me with everything you have and prove it by actions, or don’t. Simple as that.
        What can hurt is “thinking” they cared.
        He said he was committed and would not give up on me as my FP. I never trusted it, if I’m honest, as I’ve learnt not to trust anyone.

      2. Lori says:

        “Committed” omg they love that word. I can still hear him saying I’m totally committed to this Lori. What a fucking liar

  3. Diana says:

    This is so ridiculous behaviour for a grown up person:)

    1. NarcAngel says:

      Are you referring to the narcissist or the empath?

      1. K says:

        Excellent point, flipping really helps with perspective taking and sometimes I forget to do it.

  4. Michelle says:

    This situation is quite similar to mine. For a year I was a fairly involved (nearly daily communication) secondary source for my Narc Friend. It is apparent that I got a corrective devaluation, but I was never blocked and could call him up right now if I wanted to. I take it this means I am now on the shelf, since it has been five months of silence now. No crumbs, but never blocked either. This leaves me with two questions —

    1.) Is it possible to be painted black while on the shelf?
    2.) Do shelved secondary sources have a higher likelihood of being hoovered as opposed to disengaged sources?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      1. Yes.
      2. Yes.

      1. Supernova DE says:

        If IPSS is ON the shelf and painted BLACK:
        1) Will narcissist avoid taking this appliance off the shelf?
        2) If IPSS contacts narcissist during this time, is his response different than usual? ie, malign instead of benign, or silence instead of a crumb?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          1. Not necessarily, there might be a malign hoover.
          2. It might be silence or there may be a malign hoover. Silence is more likely.

          1. Supernova DE says:

            HG thank you for answering. I’ve always been confused as to what a malign Hoover looks like. Would you be able to give a few examples of what we would hear with malign (instead of benign) Hoover?
            Thank you!

          2. HG Tudor says:

            A malign hoover would include insults, threats, triangulation by talking about someone else we fancy or are involved with, reminding you of your weaknesses and vulnerabilities, insulting people who are close to you, saying we are going to damage something of yours, spoil an event you are going to or are hosting amongst many others.

          3. K says:

            Supernova DE
            The principles with regard to the Hoover Trigger and the Hoover Execution Criteria are just as applicable to N v N as N v E.

            This is a good example of a malign hoover between two Lower lesser narcs (LLN).

            My 18-year old narc cousin had broken up with her narc boyfriend and was staying at my mothers; I was eight at the time and playing on the front wall.

            Her boyfriend must have been watching the house because, when my cousin walked down the front steps, his car came out of nowhere, slammed to a stop and he jumped out and beat the crap out of my cousin in front of me.

            He was a psycho!

  5. Kokopanda says:

    At last pure logic for this messy interactions! Thank you HG. So much to analize now.

  6. Larah says:

    Você é o melhor! Até os horários batem kkkkkk

  7. Mag says:

    Ok HG. So what is a long silent treatment ? You told me a long silent treatment is not a corrective devaluation. So is it a devaluation ? And how does a midrange reacts when i block him everywhere during a long silent treatment ? Thanks alot !!!!!

    1. HG Tudor says:

      A long silent treatment would be devaluation towards an IPPS. IPPSs do not receive corrective devaluations, they are used for secondary sources.

      It depends on whether he makes an attempt to contact you – if he giving you a silent treatment, he is not going to contact you and therefore would not know he is blocked.

  8. Lori says:

    Yikes! This was painful to read again. As painful as it is, it’s reality. Thank you for this HG. I cognitively and intellectually understand this, but it’s still hard to stomach. I literally got a not in my stomach reading it.

    As tough as it is, I know that better off that he has disengaged from me. It’s been 6 months since complete disengagement from me as ipss. I think what made me feel so bad was knowing that they rarely disengage from ipss yet it happened to me after 3 years of constant contact.

  9. Mag says:

    Oooh. Cause of you i understand everything… Thanks hg. How long can last a corrective silent treatment ? I mean ? Is it possible months ? And if i m a on shelf… Receiving a silent treatment.. And i decide to block the narc everywhere… How will he react ? Midrange ? Thanks alot…

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Corrective devaluations are not lengthy in nature.

      1. Mag says:

        So ? What is it ? Devaluation ?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          So what is what? I cannot see the comment you are referring to (it is the way the moderation pane works), so do please specify.

      2. Lori says:

        Do people just sit on the shelf indefinitely ? I guess I was confused, I assumed that being blocked not responding to texts and no comfort crumbs were all indicators of disengagement?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Yes, they can do so.

          1. MB says:

            I think you will sit there on the shelf For.Ev.Er. Unless there is a HT and the HEC criteria are met. Those are the rules.

    2. Lori says:


      This has happened to me. I have been given the silent treatment for 6 months. I was blocked on Facebook but not his phone however he ignores all texts and ocassionally would block me on the phone only to unblock me a day later or even hours (I can tell on iPhone when I’ve been blocked ) so I just quit texting it was pointless. I have since received a few unknown phone calls especially after I threatened to change my number. I believe it may have been him trying to verify that this is still my number but I don’t know. I only know they came after I threatened that. I have also received several fake profile friend requests and I noticed that he made is Instagram public where he posted a recent pic of himself looking very fit.

      Your situation sounds similar and sounds like disengagement but Hg says that’s rare for ipsss. I do niot receive comfort crumbs so that tells me it’s most likely disengagement.

      HG if you don’t receive comfort crumbs and the silencse has gone on for months that is disengagement correct ? Even if they left a channel of communication open?

      1. HG Tudor says:

        Has the channel been left open or was it closed and then re-opened? If the channel has remained opened throughout, you are on the shelf even if there have been no comfort crumbs.

        1. windstorm says:

          I guess I’m on my Moron in Munich’s shelf then. There’s never been a point I could not email him.

          I find that rather insulting, that after all this time he may be considering me just sitting on a shelf still available. One more example of his self-delusion. He’s a coward, too. I can see him never email me to keep alive the delusion in his mind that he is the one in control – since actually emailing me would risk me not responding. I’m torn between being irritated and just laughing!

          1. MB says:

            WS, how long has it been since the last correspondence with the Moron?

          2. windstorm says:

            Not that long as far as hoovers. He sent me a Happy Birthday in September. My policy is always to reply to everyone, so I replied “thank you.” I don’t initiate any communication and don’t give more than a 1-3 word response.

            That’s as cold as I am capable of being. If I refused to answer at all, I would not feel true to myself. I realize that probably sounds stupid to many (and certainly to HG), but I refuse to change my fundamental self-image.

          3. MB says:

            WS, don’t feel bad. I can’t ignore a message from anybody either. HG understands this about our nature. That’s why he advocates blocking so that messages don’t get through in the first place. That’s difficult for us too but much easier than ignoring.

          4. saskia says:

            WS, your ‘Moron in Munich’ caught my eye and made me smile. Please choose to just laugh – no need to stress about that Bavarian shelf.

          5. NarcAngel says:

            Oh have a heart. I consider it an act of charity to allow them the pleasure of thinking that I consider them at all. I’m willing to accept their faulty perception of me if it helps to prop up their superiority and get them through the day lol.

          6. windstorm says:

            I need to adopt that philosophy. Think of it as an act of charity to let him pretend and prop up his ego.

          7. Mercy says:

            NA, yes! I love this thought. Viewing narcissist treatment from our prospective instead if the narcs prospective is empowering.

      2. Lori says:

        Well depends on what you mean by constant. Here’s how it’s gone:

        Blocked on Facebook constantly for 6 months

        Phone : off and on usually after I had txtd him many times. It would only last a day or two tops sometimes only hours and I could see he unblocked me

        But he never resonpded to any txt for months so I just quit doing it. My birthday came and went nothing but I noticed a week before my birthday his Instagram was public and there was a pic of him suddenly very fit (always was until he just let himself go a bit ) which I find interesting as I have very into fitness the last year and a half and he has seen pics of me becoming more fit) I have not heard one word from him in 6 months though I know mutual friends mention my name in passing to him.

        In addition, each time I told him I was going to blockhim or change my number, a few days after I would receive an unknown call which I suppose could be anyone or just a coincidence along with 2 fake profile requests from men I don’t know

        To me this seems like disengagement but this situation doesn’t seem to have all the elements of disengagement or shelf but you will know wghich it is

        HG, thank you for your help with this. I have found you to be most gracious to me.

      3. Lori says:

        Oh wait a second, something just clicked. All this time, I have felt I was disengaged from. I was told 6 months ago that it was best we don’t talk and I was blocked on Fb. As I’ve said, I was not blocked on his phone. Only periodically for at most a couple of days after I sent a flurry of texts. Now that I have read this piece 3 times and asked a couple of questions, I think I have been shelved not disengaged from. A narc is very adept at all blocking mechanisms and no one leaves their Instagram public unless they want someone to see if. I believe what has hapoened is I was shelved and he didn’t want me seeing what he was doing on Facebook since we share so many friends. That way when. he pulls off the shelf and doesn’t have to explain any of those activities.

        Hg, so his temporarily blocking me on his phone was him establishing his superiority and exerting his control over me wasn’t it ?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Correct. Where we are challenged we may respond by arguing with you, by striking you, by triangulating, by putting the ‘phone down, by blocking on social media, by walking off or a hundred different manipulations but whichever is chosen it is done to assert our superiority, quash your ‘rebellion’ evidence by your challenge and maintain control.

          1. Fuel on the Shelf says:

            Yeah talk about control and reinforcing “superiority”. I was unfollowed/blocked on Instagram (but not Facebook) for 6 months and then unblocked and re-followed again. The whole ordeal was quite perplexing and he knew I was confused and anxious about it.

            He says to me, “Don’t worry kiddo, we all do things that are out of character when we are at the end of our emotional ropes. I hope you can forgive me for that.”

            So fucking weird.

      4. Lori says:

        Omg I think I finally understand what’s happened here. I would have sworn this was disengagement but it didn’t quite fit because he left me unblocked on his phone and you said if it’s disengagement we are blocked everywhere but I figured since he hadn’t spoken to me in 6 months that must be disengagement since I wasn’t even receiving comfort crumbs.

        Wow. I never put all of this together until now until I read this several times. Thank you for clarifying this for me. This all makes sense now. I couldn’t figure out why his Instagram was public but somehow when I saw it I knew it was for me to see him all fit. A kind of one upping me and saying see I’m back in shape too. This guy has been pissec off at me for challenging him that’s why he won’t speak to me. And likely some of those fake friend requests were likely him just wanting to keep an eye me while I’m being punished

        Would you call this a shelving with a lengthy corrective devaluation? Hope this helps someone else that has pieces that don’t fit.

        Thank you so much for this HG !

        Wow. 6 months it’s taken me to understabd what’s really going on here not disengagement but shelving

        1. HG Tudor says:

          I would need to have all of the information in one place through a consultation to give you an accurate and definitive assessment but I am pleased to note you are finding enlightenment by putting the pieces together, well done.

      5. Lori says:

        This seemed like disengagement from any normal persons perspective. The bottom line is he’s a Narc very adept at all blocking mechanisms and if he wanted me gone he would have made sure I was completely blocked everywhere and the first place would have been the phone. I just didn’t see any of this because I see things from a normal persons perspective which is if someone hasnt spoken to you in 6 months they have disengaged but he has another entirely different persoectuve.

        I think the take away here is that if someone is reading your pieces andthey know they are dealing with a narcissist and the pieces don’t fit, they are overlooking or not comprehending an element.

        Now that I think about he did this once before for 2 months after I challenged him. This time much longer as he engages with another ipss which this time he told me about. He likely had another one last time too. I guess he told me this time in an effort to shell shock me to assert control.

        So HG if a Narc disengaged from an ipss while she was on the shelf, would be just decide to block her everywhere even if she wasn’t contacting him?

        1. HG Tudor says:


      6. Supernova DE says:

        I’ve had this exact realization! I thought I was disengaged but then realized I was shelved – likely painted black at the time. I also had felt weird about being disengaged from as an IPSS, given that it is rare.
        When I realized it, I had a sudden rush of ET and contacted him…which of course was a mistake at that time. This time I escaped while on the shelf, unclear if painted white or black.
        Hope you are well, has anything changed for you now that you’ve figured this out?

      7. Lori says:

        SuperNova DE
        Sorry I just saw this response but yes I now understand that I have not been disengaged from but shelved. It’s my understanding that if any channel is left open then it shelf. It makes sense believe me they very well versed in blocking people if they want to disengage a couple of clicks and it’s done. If they haven’t done it it is for a reason.

        I have no idea if I’m painted white or black. Even finding out that I’m not disengaged I did not reach out which Is a good sign. I do have a feeling I may be disengaged when I ignore his birthday though. If so so be it. Really disengagement is the best thing that can happen but it hurts the most.

        It has taken me months to ascertain that’s its shelving not disengagement though there is little difference in how it feels to us

  10. Lizbeth says:

    Spot On!!

  11. Veronique Jones says:

    Can I ask if I may . Do your kind like clingy women or men ? I am very independent and respect that others may need space as well this article is a little confusing to me
    I know I am not the archetype but it’s like if I don’t give negative responses the narcissists in my life will go to extremes to get a reaction and it’s not that I don’t care it’s because I do but when I do get to my limit it’s not pretty I lose all fear of anything that could happen to me including death I will end it . you know the fight flight thing it takes over and my narcissistic traits come out in full force
    Most of the time I’m the complete opposite I will be as loving as I can I like to make the world a better place I comfort anybody in hard times I don’t have to know them I just have to feel their pain and there is nothing I want from it I have unconditional love I don’t think there is another way that is hard at times having someone hurt you so deeply and still loving them can be agony it’s were no contact works for me usually I have already forgiven them without any apology or Hoover and I still love them so they can do it again also the silent treatment will give me time to get over the abuse and help me maintain no contact it took me a long time to realise that no matter what they do or say having them around is a choice not a responsibility I just want to find a way to not let them in in the first place that is were I need you because we will never meet so you are not a threat to me I want to be free from my attraction to narcissistic people

    1. HG Tudor says:

      It is not about whether they are clingy or not, but relates to the provision of the Prime Aims and the traits as set out in Sitting Target. If someone covers those and happens to be clingy, then that clinginess will be accepted.

  12. Mercy says:

    Sometimes I feel you are writing my story. Very good read.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Thank you.

  13. Theresa says:

    This litterally makes me sick.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Do clean up afterwards then!

  14. Fool me one time says:

    I have no idea how often I’ve read this HG? But this time a lightbulb went on in my head and I finally understand! Thank you, I think! 🤦🏼‍♀️

    1. HG Tudor says:


  15. Fuel on the Shelf says:

    I know I have commented on this article the very first time you posted it but I will reiterate it again.

    It really is SO EERIE how SPECIFIC and ACCURATE this all is….right down to the minutiae. The time it takes him to respond. Or the non-responses. The shortness of the replies. The excuse of “being busy”. The pleading texts and silence. The next-day mid-day apology. The random 5 minute phone call crumb. The longer phone call crumb.

    Every detail is eerily and succinctly accurate!

    It is so uncanny how your specifics are on point. It is like you are a fly on my phone, on Piano boy’s wall, on my wall.

    I continue to feel thoroughly creeped out at the freakish pinpoint accuracy.

    Please do more dialogues like this too, they are very helpful.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      There will be more and I am pleased you find it of use in aiding your understanding.

    2. Supernova DE says:

      Agree, this interaction is eerily accurate for me too.
      How are you?

  16. wounded says:

    This is alarmingly accurate, less in my situation than that of another but stunning all the same.

    I’m curious HG if you will do this with other empathic schools/cadres.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      There will be more work of this nature.

    2. K says:

      I would love to see more articles on empaths.

      1. HG Tudor says:

        Pah! All about you lot!

      2. K says:

        Damn straight, HG! And it is about time, too!

  17. windstorm says:

    The play by play with explanations in this article is so very helpful in aiding understanding. I hope you will make more of them showcasing different scenarios. A very great article.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Thank you, there will be more WS.

    2. MB says:

      I imagine that these play by play scenarios are time consuming to write.

  18. ava101 says:

    Can someone start out in the shelf??

    1. HG Tudor says:


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