LoveSex Addiction


In many instances there is often the lament following discard (and even escape) that although your experience with our kind was horrendous beyond measure the sex was out of this world. You miss the sex to an incredible degree. The sex was mind-blowing, intense, hugely satisfying and unlike anything else you have known. Now I know this is not always the case, there are some of our kind who are not interested in sex and some who are useless at it and in those instances you have more than likely been ensnared by a Victim Narcissist. That is not the topic of discussion today. Today we focus on those of our kind who are the sexual Olympian who thrilled and delighted you between the sheets (and plenty of other places too). One of the reasons our kind uses sex as a weapon is because of the addictive quality that we create around the sexual experience you have with us. Why is sex with us so addictive? There are actually several reasons, but the one I wish to focus on today is the concept of LoveSex. This is the link between Love and Sex.

We do not dissuade you from making such a link. In fact we positively encourage you to do this. The way that we seduce you and the way that we love bomb you is designed to inject love into sex so that they effectively become indistinguishable from one another. We are fully aware that irrespective of how self-sufficient you may like to think that you are, how independently you might lead your life, you still have that desire for the white knight. Again, this relates to the way that you have been conditioned by society to regard love and romance. We know about this and exploit this. An honest examination of your thoughts and feelings will result in your admitting that at least on one occasion you have wanted that dashing knight to come riding in on his charger, sweep you in his arms and then take you through to the bedroom where he makes tender and delicious love to you. You have been conditioned to expect to be treated like a princess and we do this when we place you on that pedestal during our love bombing of you. Sex is no different. You want to be taken care of in the bedroom, loved and made to feel special. By providing all of this when we have sex with you then we are blurring the lines between sex and love, binding the two together. Since we are so magnificent in our delivery of delicious and rewarding sex then this entwined sex and love causes you to feel a very special kind of love, better than anything else you have experienced before. We apply all of the loving techniques when we have sex with you. The tender, romantic, slow and caring way we caress and hold you before easing into you all accords with this almost dream-like perception of how sex should be. We do however go further than this traditional model of the handsome prince making sweet, delicate love to his beautiful princess. When we suddenly take you from behind, hitch up your skirt and bend you over a worktop or the back of the settee and have vigorous sex with you we will look to ensure that this type of sex is entwined with love. How do we do this? With words of course. Words come easily to us and are cheap to use. So as we are hammering away and you are admittedly enjoying this spontaneous and energetic sex we will be telling you things such as:-

“I just had to have you. You were stood there and I was overwhelmed with love for you.”

“I love you so much I needed to have you there and then.”

“You do something to me that makes me almost lose control. That is how much I love you.”

“I am so in love with you I just needed to be inside you.”

“You make me crazy in love, I cannot help myself.”

We reinforce this urgent sex with being linked to just how powerful and amazing our love is. The sex itself feels fantastic and when you hear those magical words being said to you from behind the two are melded together. The sex could not be regarded as romantic but that does not matter. Such rampant desire for you to be taken in this manner can only be a symptom of our love for you. This reinforcement will happen over and over again. From the obvious slow, tender love-making through to the quick knee-trembler on a table through to you fellating us in a parked car, we will cause you to associate all of these sexual acts as being manifestations of our truly remarkable love. Eventually, the word sex becomes eroded and every time we do something which is sexual in nature it is seen as love. Everything we do together in the sexual arena is born of love, is because of love and is a manifestation of love.

You are unable to resist this blurring of the boundaries between love and sex. You are not able to prevent sex actually subsuming the notion of love and cloaking itself in the name of love. This lack of resistance happens for two reasons. Firstly, the nature of our sexual couplings with you is so intense and enjoyable you want them and you want them repeatedly. Secondly, aside from the use of sex as a weapon, during the seduction stage you are being love bombed on lots of different fronts. We are saying beautiful things to you, writing you poems and love letters, buying you gifts, taking you to special places, looking after you when you feel ill, introducing you to our friends and so on. This onslaught of loving behaviour magnifies what we are doing on the sexual side. You are surrounded by loving behaviour so that it permeates into everything that we do with you, including sex. Accordingly, over time sex and love become bound up together. The great sex we provide to you translates as the marvellous love that we have for you. Sex is love, love is sex and it feels amazing causing you to become addicted to the sensation. We create lovesex and it is a powerful way of creating an addiction in you.

Listen to ‘LoveSex Addiction’

100 thoughts on “LoveSex Addiction

  1. MB says:

    HG, I saw the love sex addiction play out in the MJ child sexual abuse documentary. It took me by surprise because I only ever thought of the love sex addiction as applicable to adults. Sickening! I think “grooming” is just another word for “seduction”. Would you agree?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      I agree

      1. MB says:

        I have another question, HG. Is it only the Greater Narcissist that is Machiavellian enough to seduce/groom an entire family to procure his child target? (And to be patient enough to wait years for his manipulations to bring success?)

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Scope – no, time period – yes.

    2. HG Tudor says:

      I do.

      1. MB says:

        It didn’t bother me in the context of consenting adults. Seduction of a child is disgusting! I’ll never think of love sex the same way again.

  2. B says:

    Hi HG. Still reading and learning.

    Have you covered incessant flirting, mild vulgarity and constant innuendo—like sometimes all day long, every single comment is sexually charged—without there EVER, over a period of many years, being a single sexual move made? Not a kiss, not a touch, not an invitation even when the opportunity is wide open? There were plenty, including when we were out drinking (he is a high functioning alcoholic). This was my experience with a married narcissist.

    I have zero doubt he has been sexually unfaithful to his wife over a 35 year marriage, but I was continuously bewildered by all the talk and no action with me. I was never going to make a move; not for lack of attraction but for fear of being in a sexual relationship in which I had no agency whatsoever.

    Thanks HG.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Not in an article per se, but such behaviour may well be that of a Cerebral Narcissist. They love to use words sexually to control.

  3. Victoria says:

    What about an article regarding Michael Jackson and the narc traits (A Greater) that have been exposed in the new documentamy “Leaving Neverland”?

    1. Renarde says:

      Bloody hell Victoria! I was just watching LN last night. Got about three quarters the way through. Will finish it today. A Greater – nah – I don’t think so.

      What strikes me is how honest those two men are and how brave of their mothers and siblings to step up in a scenario where there will be a monumental backlash not just from the fans but normal people who would say ‘How could a parent do that?’

      So yes, another vote from me, HG.

  4. Maria sultan says:

    I want an email consultation from H. G. But I’m very low on resources please help. I’m so stressed and need help of H. G to get my ex out of my life

    1. Renarde says:

      WP is glitching. If HG see’s my double comments in moderation – please delete HG.

      I absolutely know what it means to be in your situation. I wholeheartedly recommend a consult with HG.

      In the mean time though, please try to post here if you can and us ‘old timers’ and others maybe can help?

      As you have posted in sex addiction; I’m guessing it’s very traumatic for you. We are all incredibly broadminded here. Nothing you can say will shock us.

      Let us help. Please.

  5. Chihuahuamum says:

    I can honestly say im over this addiction. My narc is in a complete love bombing state right now. Reliving past photos and conversations weve had. Super imtimate and loving. Its all nice but that magic is gone bc i know too much now. I now know hes not had an epiphany about how much i mean to him. I dont doubt my fuel means something to him but why hes hot and heavy i suspect has something to do with somebody within his fuel matrix. Possibly someone else is angry with him or vice versa and painted black. Im back in the golden light…for a time but how can you ever take intimacy or sex seriously when you know they dont feel a “real” connection with you? Its all just attention and feeding their codependant ego. Its a service thats all. No ive lost that loving feeling and that sex addiction is no longer. That bond of love associated with sex has vanished now its just…sex and faked sex at that.

    1. Narc noob says:

      Totally. It’s all about *connection*. I hear you 👍

    2. marinathemermaid3 says:

      I hear you. Even though I knew me and my ex narc weren’t “in love”, when I finally grasped the totality of what he is, there’s no way I can let him touch me again. He’s made some Hoover moves but to no avail. He knows I’m on to him. I can’t even fantasize about him anymore.

      1. Kelly B says:

        I now feel repulsed at any thought of being with him again. After all of the things he did.

    3. Mercy says:

      Chi, that is exactly how I felt in the end. Nothing can bring back the spark after you become aware.

    4. blackunicorn123 says:

      Brilliantly put, and I totally agree! When my narc comes back sniffing for treats, my first thought now is automatic- “oh, diddums, what’s gone “wrong” in your fuel matrix”. I’m not thrilled like I used to be. Once you know, you know!!!

    5. Fuel FREE on the Shelf says:

      “I now know hes not had an epiphany about how much i mean to him. I dont doubt my fuel means something to him but why hes hot and heavy i suspect has something to do with somebody within his fuel matrix. Possibly someone else is angry with him or vice versa and painted black”

      This struck me because I used to feel similarly with PB as well. He would ghost me for awhile and then reappear like nothing had changed. Oh and his most favorite thing to say to me was “Just because I do not feel as strongly for you as you do for me does not mean that I do not feel ‘something’ for you”….

      Yeah feel free to “decipher” that one. It kind of reminds me of “I love you the way I love you”.

  6. Kelly B says:

    With all the gifts and trips and going special places.And the great sex easy to get addicted. Definately felt like Cinderella until Cinderella was thrown off the pedestal.

  7. Narc noob says:

    What about boundaries in the bedroom? No amount of words or sweet talking, those words that say “I must have, I can’t do without, I can’t help myself…” It’s all about Me Me Me.

    So only a VN doesn’t have it in them? Are they similar to the pityplayer narc variety? MMRN, I’m guessing?

    1. Renarde says:

      What’s a VN? Bit confused.

      And yes, all people MUST have boundaries in the bedroom.

  8. WiserNow says:


    By the way, I like your new name. Good for you! 🙂

    I just wanted to say that the strong mix of love feelings with sex is partly caused by oxytocin in our systems, especially for women. The intimacy, touch and closeness of sex creates oxytocin which causes the bonded feelings. You probably already know this, but perhaps if you thought of the biological processes going on in your body with a logical mind, it might be easier to not feel so emotionally and sexually attached.

    This article also reminds me of something I read about recently. I read an article about emotional neglect in childhood and it suggested that children who do not receive physical affection or loving touches while small may mature faster sexually. I’m not sure how true that is, or how easy it would be to prove scientifically, but it was interesting to think about. Maybe there is some kind of link between sex and a (subconscious?) need to be either emotionally or physically validated.

    Hang in there FFFTS. It sounds like your emotional thinking is running wild at the moment, but it’s early days. Take it one step or one day at a time. I wish you all the best.

    1. NarcAngel says:

      I think there may be something to that (emotional neglect and maturing faster sexually). Not for all of course. I would say that was the case for me, but I formed the opinion very young that sex was about power and control, not a demonstration of love or a means to gain affection. I add that because I think a lot of people assume that if you are promiscuous that you are looking to receive affection, which is not always the case.

      1. Renarde says:

        Wow NA. That’s amazing you got that at such an early age! Respect!

      2. Fuel FREE on the Shelf says:

        I think there may be something to that (emotional neglect and maturing faster sexually). Not for all of course. I would say that was the case for me, but I formed the opinion very young that sex was about power and control, not a demonstration of love or a means to gain affection. I add that because I think a lot of people assume that if you are promiscuous that you are looking to receive affection, which is not always the case.”

        I’d like to chime in re: the above as I was emotionally neglected as a child and it has definitely spilled over into my adult life and the “relationship” that I had with Piano Boy. However I did not mature faster sexually. I was close to 20 years old when I lost my virginity and had only been with one other person besides Piano Boy. I never viewed sex as something of power. I never understood that concept until Piano Boy came along. For me it was a means to gain affection and because I loved him. I was very promiscuous in regard to him, I craved him in that manner as if he was cocaine. Unfortunately for me his rationale was way different. I just wanted to share my perspective on the above.

        1. Supernova DE says:

          This whole idea of emotional neglect and sexual development is very interesting.

          I was emotionally neglected as a child too. And my parents could have been sexless as far as my perspective as a child (no sex mentioned, mom gave me a book to read to teach me about sex and menstrual cycles instead of talking to me about it, etc.)

          I think I may have matured sexually faster – started to masturbate early, watch porn a lot early, fantasize about sex early (like at age 11 or 12, that seems early for a girl but I could be wrong).

          However, in terms of interacting with a partner, absolutely not. My husband is the only person I’ve ever had sexual intercourse with. Taking care of it yourself makes you a hell of a lot less vulnerable (intimacy avoidance issues over here)

          But I see how with my husband (and virtually with MMRN), I equate the sex with affection and love. If my husband and I don’t have sex for a week, I start getting anxious and need it to remain feeling balanced and OK in the relationship.
          MMRN knew I needed it on occasion to feel the relationship was OK, and he purposely avoided it, or he would start it and them vanish before I was finished…..bastard haha

      3. WiserNow says:

        That’s interesting NarcAngel, that you were able to see that at an early age. It makes me think that each person’s perspective about the same thing can be so widely different. My early thoughts about sex were about the intimacy, affection, excitement and connection, but not about power and control. Even now, reading the comments here about domination and submission, I find those aspects don’t really appeal to me.

        1. NarcAngel says:

          I formed the opinion about sex being about power and control because the things I saw and heard very early on lead me to that conclusion. There was nothing loving or affectionate. There was power, degradation, and control and yet she ‘loved’ him. I did not have those words being so young but I knew that it was dark What I saw as a child was that whatever I was giving to my mother and wanted back from her (I assumed was love) held nothing to what he held over her, and the difference was sex. Therefore in my young mind sex was about having power over others if you did not want to be in my mothers role or part of the equation.

          I bring this up because it can be the result of children being exposed to abuse that people may not consider. No matter how young you think they are and that they will forget, or how private you think you try to keep your sex life, children are little soonges that hear and see everything. They may not talk about it but it stays and manifests in many ways with long term effect. It can warp or completely change a child’s view of what sex or love means.

          A strong reason to me that if you are in this type of situation with a narcissist and have children you should remove them and yourself. GOSO.

          1. Lou says:

            Ten likes for this comment, especially for the last part.

          2. WiserNow says:

            That’s all true NarcAngel. Those things have a huge effect on small children and they do soak it all up like little sponges. They take it all in and it shapes their attitudes and expectations. A child’s family is their only frame of reference, so whether it’s abuse or neglect or power and degradation, it shapes their views, and like you say, it has long term effects.

            My parents were undemonstrative physically, and were embarrassed or shy about showing emotion or affection. Sex wasn’t discussed and they were very private regarding their sex lives, keeping it all behind their bedroom door. I think this kind of attitude has an effect on children too. The secrecy, lack of spontaneity and embarrassment creates a kind of inhibitedness and reticence. I think it causes difficulty in communicating and knowing exactly what you want from sex and enjoy about it. Like FFOTS mentioned, I think the undemonstrative and secretive attitude made me mature later and I was very self-conscious and lacked self-esteem.

      4. nunya biz says:

        NA, agree and I tend to also think that it sometimes has to do with a delayed formation of boundaries.
        There are multiple reasons things could be that way. If a person has an abusive parent who has repeatedly crossed boundaries (either physical, emotional, or both) they may not put together that a narcissist does not feel the same way regarding a type of sexual activity as they themselves may feel, especially if they never learned what actions can be tied to power versus respect. I don’t think it is only with borderlines, either. Confused parenting styles create issues all over the place. One of the biggest issues I have with narcissists is that some will ask people to do things that they don’t themselves respect. I think the same activity between two people who are not narcissists can look completely different when one is if the narcissist is manipulating it.

    2. Fuel FREE on the Shelf says:

      Wiser Now,
      Yeah, I hear you. “Emotional Thinking” never goes away. There were some comments floating around here about hypnosis. I am kind of willing to give that a try.

      1. WiserNow says:

        There might be a very small sliver of emotional thinking that always remains. For me, I haven’t reached the point of complete indifference and I’m not sure I ever will. However, with time and knowledge, the emotional thinking definitely goes down a huge amount and logical thinking takes over.

        1. Fuel FREE on the Shelf says:

          Wiser Now….
          I am nowhere near indifference yet. Not even a tiny sliver. Currently it’s depression, desolation, feeling like I have nothing to look forward to, and that awful craving/longing/pining. Meh.

          1. WiserNow says:

            I can understand that FFOTS,
            It takes a while to get over those feelings and it’s a gradual process. I also found that it didn’t really progress in a steady way all the time, especially in the early stages. Your emotional thinking will probably make you feel better some days and then miserable on others. It’s a case of three steps forward and two steps back.

            I remember it was more than two years ago that I was feeling depressed and deeply unmotivated and emotionally all over the place like you describe, although my situation was because of family and work, so it was based on many years and a number of relationships in the past.

            It sounds a bit weird, but I found that it helped me when I focused on my inner self. I would talk to myself like I was talking to a friend and I’d give myself reassurance and compassion at those times I felt really desolate. It takes a while, but those feelings will slowly diminish and you’ll eventually feel stronger and more centred and able to focus on all the other things in your life and you’ll become motivated again. Also, stay here and keep reading and commenting. That was also a huge help to me. All the best to you 🙂

  9. I’ve seen this article many times but it’s one of the things I have always struggled with the most. And even one month into my silence towards Piano Boy I still struggle with this and the utterly intense sexual thoughts that continually creep into my mind meshed in with the love I still feel for him. It is incredibly hard to separate those 2 things. I pretty much feel dead inside like no one else will ever evoke such a strong “lovesex” reaction in me. Either lovingly, sexually or both. Yeah it is definitely intertwined together. Even trying to pick up the pieces and move forward. Like the Young MC song “Bust a Move” goes….”Every dark cloud has a light of hope, so don’t hang yourself with a celibate rope”.

    Except I disagree. It doesn’t and I already feel that rope around my neck. I feel like I will never have a fire in me for anyone else. So…bring on that rope.

    I know everyone always says “the best way to get over someone is to get under someone else”. But yeah, no. No way do I ever want to get attached to ANYONE ever again.

    1. marinathemermaid3 says:

      Awww. Don’t let this relationship traumatize you. You are worthy of a deep and beautiful love.

    2. lisk says:

      Thing is FFS, you were never really attached….

      1. Fuel FREE on the Shelf says:

        It sure feels differently to me, Lisk.

      2. Renarde says:

        Lisk – FFOTS was ABSOLUTELY attached and still very much is.

    3. SMH says:

      FFFTS (Have to get used to not writing FOTS!), I felt that way too – that I would never let anyone else touch me. But it turned out not to be the case. I wasn’t really much attracted to that other person but it was a start, so I am hopeful. Like most things, it is a matter of letting time do its healing.

      1. Fuel FREE on the Shelf says:

        Hahaha….I have only changed my name a handful of times. I won’t change it again. I wish that was the least of my worries right now.

    4. Renarde says:

      You will I think. The pain will fade in time.

      Congrats on the name change! Well done you! X

  10. marinathemermaid3 says:

    In fact, I think the reason I found sex with my narc so exciting is because he was not afraid to be dominant and I like that. So many men, mostly the nice guys, don’t know how or have an aversion to being dominant in bed. They even shy away from role play, fearing to offend. I’m always like, geeze, do I really have to tell you what to do???

    1. Michelle says:

      It’s the confidence too. That is so sexy

      1. Caroline R says:

        So true!

    2. Narc noob says:

      Hi Marina, I’ve heard that some like to do dominated also. They have control in so many other areas and sometimes want to be lost in someone else doing it for a change.

      I wonder what HG opinion is about that? Is that correct?

      1. HG Tudor says:

        Do you mean, is it the case that some narcissists like to be dominated? If that is the question, please read Sex and the Narcissist.

      2. Renarde says:

        This is an area I do know a few things about. Most males are dominant but a good proportion are sexually submissive. There is a big danger here. A few posters (myself included) have been steadily tumbling to the fact that there is a big difference between between being ‘kinky’ and power exchange relationships such as D/s and M/s.

        I wouldn’t go as far as saying ALL D/s relationships are abusive but I think the VAST majority are. As I said, I’m not the only one saying it. It’s because it’s simply another version of the N-E Bond.

        Before I found NS I was very well known in the kink scene – too well known actually. It’s only in the last few weeks I’ve made the decision never again to enter into a PE relationship that extends outside of the bedroom. It’s much too dangerous. In that respect, Fetlife may well be one of the most dangerous websites on the planet.

        I’ve been a submissive AND a Dominant. What I found from male submissives who wanted to ‘serve’ me was that to a man – they are cheeky little fuckers. They will endlessly try to Top from the Bottom (TTTB). That is a big no-no. Essentially, they want their sexual kicks AND to know that they are also controlling the Dominant. We call them the ‘Do Me’ subs. The Dominant essentially becomes a ‘fetish dispenser’.

        It’s even worse if you are the submissive. Then the narc and they are narcs – will get right inside your head and fuck you over before disengaging from you. Or worse, they connive to get other women involved under the guise of being ‘poly’. Yes – it’s the matrix but done in full sight. Often but not always, it’s the male Dom who has the many subs and not the female sub who has several Doms. In fact, now that I write that, I cannot even think of one real life example.

        Do not even get me started on the hypnosis groups and munches. Fuck – they are BAADDD. I knew of one woman who had her own orgasms controlled via hypnosis to such an extent it took her a year to recover. That man is very well known in NY state too.

        1. marinathemermaid3 says:

          Wow that is so incredibly detailed and I have no idea about most of what you’re talking about. I just like to be spanked once in a while!

          1. Renarde says:

            A good spanking is a fine thing! Where did I put my flogger… [grins]

          2. Renarde says:

            Actually, I realised I’ve used a lot of acronyms.

            M/s – Master/slave
            D/s – Dominant/submissive

            These are both Power Exchange (PE) relationships.

            You can also have
            T/b – Top/bottom – not really true PE
            DD/lg – Daddy – little girl – NOT pedophilic – it’s role play – This has fallen out of fashion somewhat – Also MM/lb
            Primal Predator/Primal Prey – this is very fashionable right now
            The Leather Folk

            Oh all sorts…


            RACK – Risk Aware Consensual Kink
            SSC – Safe, Sane, Consensual

            Then there is ‘Edge Play’. This is defined as an activity/s which can cause lasting physical/psychological harm. So M/s (no safe words) is in there as is hypnosis. Needle play too. I would argue now based on HG’s own work that D/s should also be included. It’s just not safe.

            I do REALLY recommended SATN, it was the first book I ever read and it explained a lot. There is nothing inherently wrong in kink itself as long as it is fully negotiated beforehand. I have read too many horror stories where scenes were not negotiated first

            The problem is, that for me kink and NPD became conflated and very quickly too. I was going from one abusive relationship to the next without a fucking clue what was happening. The reason for this is a really quite bizarre set of circumstances that happened just before my marriage broke up.

            I lost a lot of weight and my sex drive came back with an utter vengeance. This can be fairly typical of women of my age but it is very dangerous. Just as HG points out, love and sex and for me, kink became wrapped up in a knot of epic, Gordian properties. To untangle that knot I needed to completely remove myself from OLD, any dating, kink and even sex itself. I realised I wasn’t safe and until I figured it out, I was staying firmly celibate.

            But for other women who discover their submissive side later on (some aspects of feminism decry it which had always been a problem for me), the results can and often are catastrophic.

            There are massive problems in the scene itself. The more I understood about NPD the more I realised that pretty much ALL of the munches are not safe for submissive females and the genuine submissive males.

          3. Anm says:

            I lived with/dated a Greater for about a year. He was very dominant and controlling, and was very much into the M/S -D/s thing. Except he liked to be submissive. He said he loved giving sexual power over to a female. It was too much for me. I remember towards the end of our relationship, he kept making excuses to go to Las Vegas “for work”. I was like, ‘yeah, right… Go do your thing. Let me finally watch a movie and eat ice cream in bed.’

          4. Renarde says:

            Ahh man! That sucks. Royally! I hope you are OK?

            But it doesn’t make sense? How can a man be Dominant ad then want to be a sub? Yes, of course it does happen. Of course it does. It’s far rather more likely to happen not because the man wants to cede control – he just wants the control to work in a different way if that makes sense?

            Of course it would have been too much for you if you aren’t wired that way – very few females actually are tbh. So again, you have the ‘Do Me’ sub. Utter bollocks IMHO.

            I hope you are healing?

          5. Anm says:

            Thank you, Renarde.
            I learned a lot, to say the least. That was some time ago.

          6. nunya biz says:

            Ha! Marina, me too.

        2. marinathemermaid3 says:

          Wow….hypnosis and munches? I gotta Google that.

          1. Renarde says:

            Do so but please don’t go! Hypnosis is now a banned topic on fet and rightly so in my opinion.

          2. nunya biz says:

            Yeah, Ren, I wouldn’t go to one.

        3. marinathemermaid3 says:

          I looked up erotic hypnosis. Interesting, but I don’t think it would work on me. I’ve tried to be hypnotized before on several occasions and didnt notice a thing.

          1. Renarde says:

            I don’t understand much myself but I know it doesn’t work on everyone.
            But urrggghhh… makes me shudder to think how it could be abused.

          2. nunya biz says:

            Ren, as far as it being abused, I would say it’s much like HG’s use of the term “volunteer”. It’s like… well I got myself into that.
            The problem is like all sex addiction things with narcissists, it’s good til it goes bad. Their thought processes and reasonings are different is what the problem is and nobody understands that until they do (and maybe that conclusion can be avoided, who knows). But in general, without considering truly dark situations, such as real brain washing, etc… I feel comfortable that I can only go under if I agree to it, at least subconsciously. That doesn’t mean my subconscious is always informed correctly! I have been covertly hypnotized on more than one occasion (meaning without warning).

            Marina and Ren, I have read something like 10-15% of people hypnotize easily. I am in that group and I can feel in my mind why and what causes it, but I have unanswered questions. Such as:
            is it easier for someone to perform it when they have been “under” themselves? I would think so. Due to how it feels to me, I can understand how it is induced.
            I also have no idea if empathy is tied to hypnotizability. I personally feel there is a Contagion component to some aspects of it, but I am still very short of understanding all of that.

            20% are difficult to impossible. I would expect there to be a gradient/sliding scale from high to impossible, so variances within each group. I bet you could Marina, but I don’t know. The most reliable way is to use a professional hypnotherapist who uses technology- there are both lights and sounds that alter brainwave states. From my point of view it seems that lights are the quickest, easiest hack. From there I’d guess the suggestibility is highly variable because your subconscious is particular in some ways to what it is agreeable to? So just because you went under doesn’t mean it will be fully effective.

            I have been induced by direct non-verbal (what I would consider physical) induction, by verbal induction only, and by the technology I mentioned. Is it easy to do? I don’t know how to do it, I know the basis of it, I probably could learn. The tech works on me and I agreed to it professionally, so that’s easy. Not sure that has much use in D/s play. The power trip involved otherwise leads me toward thinking GN so caution required? And the people I’ve seen do it have an intellectual understanding of the process that is unmistakable. One was a narcissist, but it’s not like he was all knowing and all powerful, just as flawed and prone to life mistakes as anyone I meet, but the comprehension is there. Like I said, I find it enjoyable, so once I got past understanding “why am I like that!???” and freaking out a bit, I understood what it is and don’t worry about it. For me part of it feels like walking into a hall of mirrors. I used to go under by accident a lot more.

          3. nunya biz says:

            I hope that’s an ok discussion, HG, the hypnosis thing, like Ren said it’s banned on fet. I tried to keep it general.

          4. HG Tudor says:

            It won’t go on for long as it is off topic.

          5. Renarde says:

            HG. Come on!!!?? It must have gone through your mind how easy it is control others through subliminal suggestion?

            Now that’s not hypnosis. Granted but it is a form of mind control.

            Im not saying you do it. I actually percieve that you find it beneath you. Ergo, I would be VERY suprised indeed if you indulged.

            You and I are of an age where I certainly remember the concept of ‘blip verts’. Max Headroom et al.

            Blip verts were banned. But you still see them in films such as ‘Fight Club’.

            Not having a pop and yes, we are straying from the topic in hand but actually, the concepts of sex and control are so intimately related that I do feel this is of relevance.

            Still luffs you honey x

          6. nunya biz says:

            “It won’t go on for long as it is off topic.”

            Ok, HG. Thank you.

        4. marinathemermaid3 says:

          I’m in New York! Now I’m dying to know who it is!

          1. Renarde says:

            Can I say HG?

          2. HG Tudor says:

            You can and I shall form a view in moderation.

          3. Renarde says:

            Cool and understood. Thank you.

            The guys name was Jeff Mach. A big event organiser in NY state but specifically New Jersey, Hoboken.

            Ran many events, I maybe conversed with him privately a few times. All above board.

            Anyway, I believe it was the woman who’d been hypnotised re orgasms. That opened the flood gates.

            His events were not safe. More and more came forward. Safeword violations in public, that kind of thing.
            He ran several companies for these events. He had people around him, lieutenants probably, covering his arse.

            The damn had burst. He deactivated his profile and stepped down. But not really.
            He kept his hand into the business side. That caused a monumental outcry on Fet when it came out.

            Again, as I’ve said, he was convincing women, subs, that Poly is all cool etcs etcs. Just another version of the matrix itself.

            What was he? NPD obviously. As to school – don’t care enough to figure him out.

            He caused a lot of damage to a lot of people. I think on that poor woman from time to time. Which is why I say, never EVER let someone into your mind. Either via hypnosis or mind altering drugs such as LSD or mushrooms.

            Your mind is a precious thing and needs to be treated with great respect.

            As to H.G and moderation. I know some posters on here get their knickers in a twist over moderation. This is a VERY specific example where I needed to seek permission. I hope that is understood.

        5. nunya biz says:

          I am a sexual sub who hypnotizes, it is possible to do this. I won’t even debate about if hypnosis is legit, it is, and I have my own proof as well as theories. I have avoided those situations for obvious reasons. I would love and hate that situation, not for me. I enjoy hypnosis though, very much, and would willingly participate with trust (requirement). Pure conjecture though, and unlikely to come about.

          1. Renarde says:

            Do you NB? That’s fascinating! Is it easy to do?

          2. marinathemermaid3 says:

            I’m very curious. I don’t doubt that hypnosis can be effective, its just never worked on me.

        6. SMH says:

          Renarde, I understood about half of that! lol.

          1. Lou says:

            I am glad I am not the only one. Lol

          2. Renarde says:

            LMAO! The obvious question is, which half!

    3. Claire says:

      I am understanding the vivid reality that nice guys aren’t going to pull your hair. It’s quite a plight to be in this position.. It sucks.

      1. Fuel FREE on the Shelf says:

        I am going to chime in in regard to hair pulling as that happens to be a thing with me, and it was with Piano Boy too. It went both ways though. Well until he chopped off all his hair. I never got the feeling he was the dominant one in bed though. He always wanted me to boss him around, so I did.

        That was the least of the oddball things he wanted to do though. I used to ask where he got the ideas for certain things and 99% of the time he had seen it in a porno.

        1. Claire says:

          I just don’t see a lot of ordinary people being sexual olympians or hair pullers.. I mean—let’s get real.. Lelo kicks ass over most of these boring men.

        2. Renarde says:

          I’m so sorry FFOTS. He didnt get those ideas from porn. He deliberately searched for them. Males can be such conniving cunts when it comes to porn.

          It might help if you express what he asked you to do. For your healing. Just get it out.

          I don’t percieve HG will allow others to pruriantely dwell on the acts. I certainly will slap others down if I see it.

          I can see PB hurt you so deeply. Let it out if you can. I do percieve this to be one of the very few safe spaces on the net x

          1. nunya biz says:

            I would not feel that discussing specifics would help me. For myself, my identity is separate from a narcissists so negative feelings he may have don’t belong to me.

          2. Renarde says:

            Quite right so. x

          3. Fuel FREE on the Shelf says:

            Yeah, I do not mind sharing. No where else to spend my time these days. I deactivated my FB and my Insta for an indeterminate amount of time while I just kind of focus on myself. I even deactivated and my FB messenger so I do not feel compelled to check in on PB over there either. This is one of the few places I did not want to leave for the time being.
            Anyway with that being said, it was not a super involved list of sexual oddities but most of it was still very odd. We always talked about stuff in advance and he would ask me if I was okay with it. I was never “forced” into doing anything I did not want to do but I did go along with it to make him happy and pleasure him because I was stupidly in love with him. In addition to the hair pulling (which I used to ask him to do), one thing I found odd was a few times he asked me to choke him during sex, specifically on the point of nearing climax. I was nervous to do that but I did it anyway. He wanted to do the same to me but I declined and he respected that.

            Another thing was he liked to sometimes position me in a way where he could “watch” what his body was doing to mine. Specifically his movements. There were times when he seemed more interested in watching that (watching himself move in and out) then looking right at me but as soon as I said something we would then switch positions where he was looking at me. He would talk “crassly” sometimes as we were going at it. He would also say “come on, come on, come on” to himself as he was “preparing” to climax. Finally though (and this was the oddest thing) was when I was going down on him. He did not want me to swallow. He wanted me to hold it in my mouth until he was done climaxing and then he wanted me to kiss him to “share it” with him. It was NBD to me but all I could think of was “who the hell wants to do that?” I did it because I wanted to please him and make him happy even though I found it so strange. Every time I asked where he’d learn this or that it was “oh I watch lots of porn, don’t you?” I would say “no not really, I do not care about watching others having sex”. His reply “well when you are as lonely as I am, it’s all you have really”.

            One memory I will never shake is when he would be going at it with me and he would stop and then start going down on me right in the middle of it. I was dizzy and seeing stars. That memory still knocks me off my feet and makes my breath almost stop in my chest, that is how intense it all was. He used to make me drip down my legs (whoa sorry TMI) just be LOOKING AT ME and gently resting his hand on my face. Just hearing his VOICE. That is how ridiculous it all was.

            Wow I feel like I am gonna pass out after sharing all of that but hey you asked….

            I need a cold shower now.

          4. Renarde says:

            Thank you for sharing FFOTS.

            I’ve read your post several times which is why there is a delay in responding. I would concur with you that there are odd things going on, it’s not so much the acts themselves, it’s the dynamic in which they were occurring. In fact, so odd is it that I wasn’t sure myself so asked a second opinion from a close male friend.

            What we both picked up on was how many times you are saying; ‘I was doing it to please him’. We both think that this was/is a very big no-no. (Neither of us are judging you, we both explicitly understand how and why you agreed to it – I am mentioning this now so that going forward, you can stop a dynamic like this from ever occurring again because it’s unhealthy mentally and potentially very dangerous).

            Women are hard wired to please. Men very often know exactly what they want. This is dangerous because it then becomes completely lop-sided. Sex (or kink) really does need to be mutual. Not all the time but over a period over time.

            This led with said male friend to a discussion on ‘being in the moment’ versus planned. So say, an activity – nothing too outrageous, might be a fun thing in the moment but the big danger is that the male (but not necessarily so) is grooming you for a far more outrageous act somewhere down the line. It’s a test of boundaries. I DO point to being choked close to orgasm. That one could have become very dark indeed. It’s the close to orgasm thing that REALLY worries me, not necessarily just hands round throat at some point. There is a BIG difference there.

            I can’t quite get my head around the kink dynamic that was occurring with you and PB. He’s a narc so he wants to control but he’s explicitly asking you for submissive acts (such as snowballing and being choked near orgasm).

            Then he switches this with asking to choke you. Whilst couples can and do switch in bed; it’s actually far rarer than you would think.

            Another thing that strikes me is how much in your post you are mentally beating yourself up. WTTE – I was foolish – I was in love or with regards to your arousal – that’s how ridiculous it was.

            It is now VITAL that you stop being so hard with yourself. Please. What happened to you was no accident; you were GROOMED!

            You mention that it was all consensual and negotiated. It wasn’t consensual at all! Just the acts were. He’s a narc – right? The article ‘LoveSex’ is an writing about how Narcs groom some of their victims. Reframe this. I’ll say it again; it’s grooming.

            I could talk at length and waste lots of HG’s bandwidth but when you talk about arousal – he just needed to look at me – THAT is because the grooming was well under way. It also means that you were responding on a very almost primal level to pheromones. Not everyone responds in this way so this makes you especially vulnerable in the future.

            Further evidence of his narc status (like we didn’t know) is his reference to being lonely. Bullshit he was. But it is SUCH a victim like thing to say and also a really quite submissive one too. Goodness – he really couldn’t work out what the fuck he wanted – could he?

            I suspect PB was subconsciously getting you to Dominate/mother him as that appealed to a victim streak far more prevalent that displayed by the other cadres.

            However, he MUST be a somatic. Certainly not an Elite. They are far too proud to let such a statement come out of their gob.

            Ok to practicalities. You are clearly a brave, lovely and very sexual/sensual being. You have experienced things that other women would literally kill for. However, it is also clear by your last paragraph that the N-E bond is still very much there. But it’s an addiction. Like all addictions, the idea will form that you must break NC. This is tough but as we both are saying to you, to be a DLS, to have given so much for so very little is so unfair on you.

            As will the memories of what you have experienced. Getting a narc out of your head has been one of the toughest things I have ever had to do but I did it and you can too. I promise you.

            We both wish you well by the way. You will be OK, you are much stronger than you know.

          5. nunya biz says:

            Thanks, Ren, thought it worth mentioning.
            EMDR is a path for distancing emotionally from experiences, I think if anyone has trauma interfering with regular life. I did well enough with behavioral work but I have enough distance from my past naturally over time to not need to go that route in addition.
            Sorry to distract FFFTS, I just didn’t know what your situation was, so another perspective about going over the past in detail. Yours doesn’t sound negative for you.
            For whatever it means, I think that all sounds like stuff I would like. I dunno.
            But I also think you are beautiful so finding someone to connect with for real should be doable : ) Screw that guy. I mean, don’t. You have all the cards in your life. No fuel for him.

          6. Fuel FREE on the Shelf says:

            It’s no problem, I do appreciate your insight very much. HG is pushing the comments through so you must not be eating up too much bandwidth…LOL. 😉

            I know you’ve posted very detailed stuff on this blog about the “lovesex” addiction and the many different narc behaviors in bed. Your “it’s like snorting a line of crack” comment came to mind many times when I re-read some of these articles. A few of the sexual things you’ve shared sort of mirror PB’s behavior.

            He brought up the whole choking thing while we were in bed just cuddling/kissing once. I told him I did not feel comfortable having it done to me. He said that it is supposed to make orgasms more intense (he said it was something about the air deprivation starting and then stopping, I do not really know…). He liked to explain things….either a reason why (i.e. intense orgasm) or where (i.e. saw it in being done in a porno). He said it was okay if I did not want him to do it to me but he wanted me to do it to him. I have no idea if it really made his climax more intense or not. All I remember was my hands on his throat and how worried I was that I was going to inadvertently choke him to death or something. Of course he was able to maneuver my hands accordingly with the timing of things. I do not know. It was about a year and a half ago so looking back on it, it was somewhat of a blur.

            Certain memories are stronger than others. The snowballing (did that many times) was a more prominent memory. I never understood why he wanted to taste/swallow himself. I didn’t necessarily hate it, it was less messy than the “bank shot” he got in my eye once during the other times when he wanted to climax on my face (another thing gleaned from his porn memories). It definitely made me feel closer to him. And he definitely reciprocated his oral game back to me, had me trembling and shaking as I gushed all over his face, good grief.

            Yeah the somatic/elite/cerebral debate has been going on for awhile. I always pegged him as cerebral due to his huge vocab, intelligence level, musical ability. He did not really pride himself too well in appearance to strike me as somatic. He let himself go a bit, gained some weight, grew scruffy facial hair, he often wore the same 2 or 3 outfits, never put much effort into the way he looked. He sat on his nice pair of glasses by accident and they broke so he had a new pair of glasses that were ugly as hell. Not that I cared because then again I never fully focused on that. He changed his appearance so many times over the years, from no facial hair to looking like the Duck Dynasty guy with the beard. To having long hair past his shoulders to cutting it short. Didn’t matter to me, I was (still am) hopelessly in love with him. Anyway, that kind of went off on a tangent….I still think he is cerebral but the amount of people he’s had sex with could make him somatic so your assumption is as good as mine I suppose.

            As far as the dominance vs. submissiveness. Definitely went back and forth but they ARE contradictory creatures you know.
            Yeah he has always seemed controlling, suggesting and asking for certain things…but he often said he loved it when I “bossed him around in bed”. So I guess the “subconscious” thing makes sense in a way. I never really went with it though. My “demands” were a bit silly, not that bossy and not really always fully sexual. I would be a wise ass and say “stand on one foot while you kiss me”, you know wise ass stuff like that. Or “pick me up and carry me to the bed”. Or “do a funny voice impression of….(whomever)” (he used to do the best voice impressions and make me laugh so much). Ah….blah. Meh. I freaking miss that. 🙁

            But yeah about the “grooming” thing….that makes sense. Setting me up for more stuff. I was a DLS and our time was intermittent. I guess I can only wonder what other darker things could be in store had it continued on. I still feel like it’s not over. It is not easy staying away from him.

            The one thing that struck me about what you said was my “reaction on a primal level to pheromones”. That struck me as so very accurate. And yes it is vulnerable and scary because before him I had only been with 1 other person. And it did not feel like that with the former person. Not at all. There was someone on the blog (I think it was maybe Jenna but I am not sure) where there was a comment made about that “magnetic pull”. When he was in my vicinity I felt the “pull”. It was impossible for my body to resist. I had this “primal” (insatiable) need to just “merge” with him. During our intimacy I often cried (not in a bad way but in a euphoric way). He said to me “it feels like our souls are touching”. I attributed this to some corny romantic dialogue he likely spewed out but damn it was an accurate dialogue.

            Anyway before this gobbles up too much bandwidth I will wrap up by thanking you for your perspective. I found it very helpful.

          7. Renarde says:

            Oh lovely, I’m glad my words are helping.

            Yes, indeed your ex is correct that asphyxiation approaching orgasm really does heighten it. However, I percieve we are both of the same build and what I do know is that it takes enormous strength to apply enough pressure to do that. That’s why it’s so deadly, Way too easy to misjudge and make someone lose consciousness or in the worst case, death of course.

            I have to fly now but I’ll be back tomorrow with more thoughts.

            Stay strong beautiful lady and remember IG! x

            (That’s if you can tear yourself away from the wreck in HG’s comments on there. All I will say is ‘latte’.)

          8. Fuel FREE from the Shelf says:

            “Stay strong beautiful lady and remember IG! x

            (That’s if you can tear yourself away from the wreck in HG’s comments on there. All I will say is ‘latte’.)”

            I haven’t forgotten all of you on IG. I did deactivate for now but I’ll eventually be back. I do miss HG’s stories over there. But I’ll be back someday, don’t worry!

      2. Supernova DE says:

        I disagree, you just have to find the right one. Once I finally opened my mouth and asked, my husband will do just about anything – spank, hair pull, throw me down, whatever. Not every time of course, but he’ll break it out once in a while cause he knows I like it….and he’s not a narc, so when he says he loves me during sex, he actually means it haha

        1. Claire says:

          That’s great! I have to admit—it’s a weird subject to approach on the first date but I’ve done stranger things looking back.. I had an alternative life form pestering me a bit last night to engage in “talk” but I stood firm knowing my life is full of nonsense! I just pretended not to notice the prompts.

    4. Renarde says:

      Ahhh… Male Dominance. A lot of men won’t role play because, simply, they are not very good at it and don’t want to appear daft.

      1. Claire says:

        I looked up the New York guy on FB. He has a response to his accusations that appears well thought out and he even uses the term “smear campaign.” What he forgot to leave out is that he mentioned accusers as including former partners (yes plural)… It’s not normal for plural former partners to plot against you! He is clearly a victim from his perspective. I’m sorry you went through that but your insights are refreshing and I appreciate them. I have a “friend” I’ve had a pull toward that is into some alternative proclivities and I just think it’s safer not to go there. WP app is crashing today so I’m not sure this is the best spot to reply about the NY guy..

        1. nunya biz says:

          Yeah, Claire, I prefer to remember former partners fondly as much as I can manage. Multiple specific accusations doesn’t bode well. I didn’t look it up, thx for opinion.

        2. Renarde says:

          Thank you Claire for your kind thoughts about me. In this instance – I just really am an external observer. So yeah, the guy never bothered me.

          You are indeed correct that a lot of how he tried to undermine the female survivours was through FB itself. THAT was what got a lot of posters on Fet utterly riled. WE saw it for what it was. A smear against the brave women who had gone on the record and that little worm running away from the monumental damage he had inflicted.

          To a certain extent; kink will police itself. It just depends on who is shouting the loudest.

          To kink – you just need your head screwed on, otherwise it’s fine.

  11. marinathemermaid3 says:

    My last narc never put the romance on, and I was fine with it being non committal sex. There was no love involved, but it was still damn good and I wanted more more more.

  12. Butterfly says:

    Are you “acting” then also regarding sex? Do you ever feel desire or attraction or just the fuel that comes with it …?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Please see Sex and the Narcissist, Butterfly.

  13. ava101 says:

    Did you ever feel more close to someone that way? It is always just a disgusting thought to you to be so close? You never enjoy anything outside of control?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      It is all about the control and fuel, as you know.

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