The Golden Rules of Freedom : Number 4

golden 4

You are never immune to our kind. You will ALWAYS be susceptible to us because of your innate addiction to our kind. You cannot remove it and thus you will not achieve immunity. You must therefore always be resisting.

You can don the armour to protect yourself as fashioned through my works, but that armour does not give you permanent invulnerability. All armour must be updated, maintained and checked otherwise the shield splits, the chainmail links weaken and the breastplate shatters more readily.

If you think that you are immune to us, you are succumbing to emotional thinking. It wants you to think that you are immune because if that is what you think, then guess what you will do? You will either want to test your immunity or you will believe that you can engage with us in some way and therefore you are doing precisely what your emotional thinking wants you to do. It wants you to engage with us and it will find whatever way it can to make you do that.

You are not immune. You may very well be able to take a telephone call from us and not react to what we say you may even feel nothing for us – no pity, no love or no hate. That time. You may be able to take that second telephone call from us and feel the same way, but because you are not immune, the more you engage with us – whether this is thinking about us, talking about us, spending time with us – you will eventually fall prey to your emotional thinking to a greater extent.

The very fact you are engaging with us when you think that you are immune, means that your  emotional thinking is working, because of course logic would tell you that you have no need to engage with us. Why then are you doing it? Because I want to show myself I will not react, I will not get drawn back in. That is emotional thinking. You are engaging with us and several things arise from this which are problematic. They may not appear problematic to you, because during that telephone call you feel in control, you did not get upset, you do not feel anxious any more, you do not feel anything for us, but you are creating problems.

  1. You will be providing us with fuel. It may be minimal but it will be there because you will not be able to maintain a neutral and flat tone throughout a conversation. Yes, you may be able to achieve this for a very short time and yes, you may not be giving much fuel, but it is there all the same. Thus, we are getting something we want.
  2. You are not rejecting us. By speaking to us you have signalled that you will answer the phone and engage. You may not be enthusiastic but you answered nevertheless. This provides us with encouragement.
  3. You are feeding your addiction and therefore your emotional thinking will want more and in its insidious way it will con you by telling you that you handled the call without any difficulty (it feels like this of course but it is not the case) and thus it will encourage you to do so again or encourage you to attend that social event where you know we will be there because you remain confident of being able to handle the situation. All you are doing is allowing the addiction to be fed and for the emotional thinking to surge until it overwhelms you (and it will) at a future point.
  4. You may well be feeding us useful information in the course of the conversation which we can use to our advantage.

Accordingly, by thinking you are immune and therefore thinking you can engage safely with us, you are creating risks and problems.

You have no need to engage with us.

You have no need to test your immunity because you are not immune. Understand this.

Instead, you can build your resistance. You are resistant but not immune. Some of you have a very low resistance, others far higher, but whichever it is, this resistance, just like the functioning of your own resistance to disease, can erode and weaken. The easiest way for this to happen is by repeatedly exposing yourself to engaging with us. The more you do so, you do not build your resistance but you weaken it. Of course, as I have explained above, you think you are becoming more resistant because you have an encounter with us and you walk away head held high thinking you handled it well. Superficially, yes, but beneath the surface, the problems I have detailed above are forming, waiting and growing ready to ensnare you.

By obeying this golden rule, you will avoid the complacency and risk which comes with thinking you are immune. Instead you will recognise you have resistance, you will understand that his resistance can be made stronger and can also be made weaker, so that with that logic defence established in your mind, you will work harder to avoid complacency and the problems that come with that.

Some of your resistance will be innate, but the majority of resistance is that which is learned and applied. You increase your resistance through reading and understanding, through the imposition of a solid no contact regime, by applying a rigorous purging of the emotional infection so it is driven to the lowest level and by the building of Logic Defences. Combining all of those elements will heighten your resistance, minimise weakening it, reduce the risk of using your resistance unnecessarily (which is of course a consequence of the impact of emotional thinking) and means that when a hoover happens to get through unexpectedly, that when you have those ‘bad days’ when you pine for us, your resistance will not be found wanting and you will repel the hoover, you will reject the emotional thinking which is straining to make you contact us and you will ensure that your resistance remains intact. Do not voluntarily test it, that is giving in to emotional thinking and taking an unnecessary risk – save its strength for when it is really needed because those moments will indeed come.

By applying the cornerstone elements from the paragraph above, their maintenance becomes easier, more natural and more instinctive and thus less arduous for you. You do not need to maintain a state of heightened vigilance, for that becomes draining, you will create a more-readily maintained defensive regime. Doing so little and often becomes far easier than a sudden overhaul when it is too late, which is invariably when complacency has already become the traitor who is unlocking the castle gates.

You are not immune.

You are always resisting.

Remember this and that resistance will achieve freedom and maintain it.

97 thoughts on “The Golden Rules of Freedom : Number 4

  1. Susie says:

    Well after listening to HG for a few weeks, I escaped from my greater 48 hours ago. I am ok, safe and in another state 12 hours away from him. Since with HGs help, I have realized he was not my first but WILL be my last. I did not plan my departure but did it in a few hours. Everything fell into place. I have left abusers before and done the trash bag restart but this time is different. I am older and wiser. I deserve true love from a heart and not a seething empty soul who seeks to destroy me for no reason.
    I put things in place within myself before I escaped so impact on me will be minimal as possible.
    I know I wounded him horribly. Not my pasture. Not my shit. This too shall pass.

    1. NarcAngel says:

      Hi Susie
      Glad to hear you are safe and away. You indicate that you have been through this before so you know that early on you will juggle a number of emotions. Keep reading while you cycle through them to stay focused on a new path forward. You can do this and there are many people here who understand and to help you.

      1. lisk says:

        You are so right, NarcAngel. I may make some missteps, but I would not have gotten as far as I have without HG and readers/commenters like you. “Keep reading” is really the best advice.

    2. Mercy says:

      Suzie, “Trash bag restart”. Love it! You are fierce!! Stay strong and when you waiver remember why you left. You DO deserve true love from the heart and you won’t find it where you came from. You have all of us in your corner.

    3. foolme1time says:

      Susie, As NA has said there are many here that will help you through this! Good luck and stay safe!

    4. Joanne says:

      I like that, “not my pasture, not my shit!” Good on you for getting out. Glad to hear you are safe. Time to heal and rebuild. You’ve got this! 💪🏼

    5. Oracle says:

      Glad your okay susie. i hope i find my way out like you. You give me hope.

  2. Becoming Observant says:

    I thought that with insight learned here, I could have the indulgence of a narc while keeping him at arm’s length. I stayed a step ahead, didn’t get emotionally involved, didn’t care or show emotion if I was “shelved” or “on”. The result: never “shelved” more than three days. He’d say “we need to stop. I want to be a better person.” I’d say “ok.” No more, just “ok”. The longest he went before crawling back with “I made a mistake” was three days (my answer: “ok”).

    I have a husband with impotence/ED issues who knows I struggle with satiety. He isn’t leaving if I “go outside”. We love each other. The side dish? He had a live-in girlfriend (half his age) who he painted crazy. I felt no guilt when I gave in to him after many, many months of ignoring his chase. We had a satisfying arrangement for a couple of years.

    Here is what I overlooked as an empath: as a narcissist, he lies. He manipulates, triangulates, uses, and abuses. I avoided this on my end for the most part, but dang: he was lying about the live-in “controlling” girlfriend. They were married. She supported him in every way (even financially, although she was half his age). When she found out, I learned the truth about SO many things (which he lied about for no reason; just to create a more dramatic narrative to smear his “wife”). She was grossly hurt.

    As an empath, I’m devastated. I see myself as selfsh, the effect I had on their now-ruined marriage, the kids they were raising, and I had thought I was “winning” by enjoying a no-strings-fling with a somatic narc for whom I truly felt nothing. I didn’t consider the effect on his people, or realize that his “tormentor” was actually married to him and sacrificing everything for him. Narcs are truly better left alone. No good will come of it.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      You are to be commended for the honesty of your post Becoming Observant and also this evidences a contrast between your ET when you sought to maintain the relationship at arms’ length and when you realised in part, the downside of doing so.

      Although as a Shelf IPSS an individual will not suffer devaluation in the way that an IPPS does, there can still be unpleasant corrective devaluations and they sometimes can be very unpleasant. Even if you avoid the out and out abuse, you still have the fact you are treated as second best, picked up and put down when the narcissist chooses and you have to fight against your natural instincts to not be hurt by that, to reduce fuel etc (many people cannot manage it and even those who do, it is not healthy). Your ET continues to be fed even when you ‘think’ you have control of the situation or that it is not ‘hurting you’ – it IS hurting you and in ways you cannot see, why is that, because your ET blinds you to them. Further, you have the outcome you have been most honest about, you felt guilt and devastation when you realised the reality of what he was doing to the IPPS, something you would feel as an empath.

      Anybody who thinks they can ‘handle’ the narcissist through continued engagement is being conned and controlled by emotional thinking. If you maintain you are not being conned and controlled, the VERY FACT you are stating this means you are being conned and controlled by the ET. The first golden rule of freedom is powerful and simple – anything which causes you to think about or continue to engage in some way with a narcissist IS emotional thinking. It is imperative readers grasp this. You CANNOT continue to engage with a narcissist in any form on a repeated basis and not have some form of downside.

      Get Out, Stay Out.

      I know our kind. I know your kind. I do not explain this for no reason. Obey GOSO.

      1. A383 says:

        HG, a very powerful reminder to start the day. Thank you. x

        1. HG Tudor says:

          You are most welcome.

      2. Claire says:

        This is excellent HG. I am trying, I really am.

      3. Becoming Observant says:

        All true.

        I’ve 86’d four narcs (that I know of) in the last year, from family, work, and this last relationship above. It isn’t for sissies. It rips my heart out every time. Even knowing that the sharp words mean no more than the glossy ones, steeling myself against them all, when it comes down to GOSO, it’s hard for an empath to disengage from any relationship (inner grieving is involved, even if you know it’s one-sided).

        Thank you, HG. I still read your work. They are easy to identify when they are provoked. I wish it were easier during the seduction.

      4. Better Call HG says:

        Thank you Becoming Observant and HG for sharing these comments. As an IPSS who has been shelved by multiple narcissists, I’ve completely overlooked the fact that while I was being courted as a shelf IPSS, there was an IPPS in devaluation. It’s helpful, at least for me, in battling my emotional thinking to remember the consequences of ensnarement go beyond myself not to mention being crowned IPPS would have resulted in the same fate of devaluation and dis-engagement.

        In my most recent experience, I remember the LMRN telling me that one of her male roommates told her that she was the perfect girl for him. At the time I thought I was exclusively dating the LMRN (such a quaint idea!) so I was oblivious to the triangulation and just assumed he had a crush on her. I even hung out with him a few times when I would go over to the LMRN’s house to see her. Later on, she smeared him in front of many people on multiple occasions and even accused him of sexual harassment. A few weeks prior to my shelving, he allegedly broke his lease early and moved out of the LMRN’s house.

        In retrospect,he was more than likely the IPPS in devaluation and a fellow empath who was genuinely confused/hurt by the whole process and didn’t deserve all of the negative things the LMRN said about him. I’d hate to go through what he did, and I feel bad that I was part of the process. Hopefully, moving out was the beginning of GOSO for him and that one day he finds his way to HG’s works.

        1. Becoming Observant says:

          I was in (what might be) a unique position: the N was a struggling businessman, supported by his (now I know) wife (half his age, barely out of college). I was his client. He needed my business. Badly. His wife helped out there when she could. So, I could only be “shelved” or given the silent treatment via text. As a client, he had to see me daily no matter what. He couldn’t afford to get rid of me. He couldn’t compartmentalize.

          I was privy to every vaca, argument, celebration, the kids were adorable and I loved them. I felt a false sense of security. He was still lying and triangulating. Some of it was obvious. Enough of his BS about her slid right under my radar, bc he’d make up whoppers out of thin air to demonize her for no reason at all. I‘m sure he did the same to me, talking to her.

          I’d like to help her. I imagine he’s fighting HARD to get his gravy train back. She mobilized quickly: left him, liquidated furniture, and their home was empty/for sale within a week of the “outing”. She hasn’t realized that she’s judging me based on info he’s feeding her about me (lies to make himself look victimized). I haven’t told her that I felt the same loathing for her while I listened to him, I’m hoping she’ll see that correlation on her own, She is smart. I have told her a couple of things he fed me over the years to paint her crazy and him the victim, but she is thinking emotionally and her heart wants him (the version of him he showed her during lovebombing), and my honesty does not fit with what he’s telling her.

          It’s better for my sanity to leave them alone.

          The mom in me wants to shake this woman-child’s head and set her straight, keep her from the hoover. Protect her by educating her to HG’s writings. I pointed her here, but she’s not ready to listen to me. I am the bad guy now, in her eyes.

  3. Yolo says:

    “Vent your spleen!” Haha…This is spot on, I know from experience. I have zero desire to be with this person I found myself slipping after taking 5 calls from this person. I let my guard down, but was able to resist the temptation. :Loneliness left untreated becomes lust.” ( Pastor) So, i am back for a refresher.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Good to see you again YOLO

  4. Narc noob says:

    I’ve been looking at those I seem to attract with my investing engagements.

    HG, please enlighten me and show me a billionaire who has made their fortune with decency, honesty and respect for other’s? I’m sure there’s one or two.

    1. Sarah Jane says:

      Richard Branson?

      Although I think everyone who is ridiculously loaded or famous/successful (as the media like to drum into us that being ‘successful’ is the be all and end all of life) has some kind of personality disorder – as life isn’t about competition. It’s about survival and supposedly living in harmony, isn’t it?

  5. lisk says:

    So, basically, my ex-narc is a virus. Must keep my defenses up.

    Will keep taking my heavy doses of Vitamin HG!

    1. HG Tudor says:


  6. Stefanie says:

    After the first paragraph, I simply scrolled through it.


    Because this is the Narcs/HG’s perspective.

    The disorder causes Him & His Kind to believe that He and they like him control us. They do, until we figure out how fucked up amiss it all is. We usually do figure it out and leave. Much like HG’s paramours have also left. So, from his perspective, “he won” because he wrongly assumed that his victims will always be his victims.
    HG is a man and never factored in that when a woman has had enough-she’s had enough. This is true in any relationship-narcissists included .
    We move on and thrive, never looking back They stay stuck repeating the same old patterns and self sabotaging every relationship they’ve ever had. Who is the sad one in this scenario? It’s not us.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      It is from my perspective, no shit sherlock! That is the whole point. And yes, I explain that the idea of control, superiority etc is all based on our perspective and it is that perspective which causes us to regard you as the loser and us as the winner. That is the whole point of this place, to provide you with our perspective!

      Coming next – The Pope – Is He Catholic?
      News Just In – Bears : Yes, They Shit In The Woods.

      World Exclusive – Sun Rises In The East – Again.

      1. Caroline-is-fine says:

        HG: Why did this person cause this “no shit Sherlock” reaction in you?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Because it was such a pointless statement of the obvious that I half wondered if it was written in jest

          1. Caroline-is-fine says:

            The comment does not seem “in jest” to me. It seems as a fairly neutral, yet honest, comment of feeling — not anything to get “up a notch” on, for you, a Greater…

            It makes little sense to me that this comment would provoke the reaction it did (in your wording), when I have seen you be low-key to other comments that were much more “in your face.”

            I would like to know why… deeper dig, on that.

          2. Just Saying says:

            Stephanie’s comment did not strike me as an attempt at humor, but a rant. HG has done nothing against Stephanie. It is plainly obvious this site is all about narcissism and is written by an eminent expert on the topic–a narcissist–for FREE. Stephanie’s assumed superiority, sarcasm and dismissive angry tone was unnecessary and misplaced ET at best. Such a tone is more narcissistic than empathetic. I am not saying she is not an empath. Just that anger and sarcasm are more on the narc end of the spectrum. Sarah Jane saw her ante and raised the scathe to include slurs and name calling. Ugly business. K nailed it.

          3. K says:

            Thank you, Just Saying
            There was a lot of ET in Stefanie’s comment and I understood and agreed with HG’s response. After all, the banner reads: “Knowing The Narcissist” for a reason. Based on the content of the comments that I have been reading lately, I wasn’t really surprised at the hostility directed towards Anm and Claire. It was a clash of the Titans and we can all learn from it.

          4. Just Saying says:

            Thank you, K. I really did not understand the further comments as I am unfamiliar with that person’s work.

          5. K says:

            My pleasure, Just Saying.

      2. Joanne says:

        “World exclusive” – 😂😂

    2. Just Saying says:

      Sorry, I scrolled through your comment and caught something about if you’ve had enough, you move on and don’t look back. I guess you can’t get enough, or what are you doing here? No need to answer. I’m moving on from your comment and not looking back.

    3. Anm says:

      Melanie Tonia Evans is more up your alley.

      1. Claire says:

        OMG Anm–she has this whole thriver peptide addiction thing going.. It is nuts.

        1. Anm says:

          Exactly, claire

        2. Sarah Jane says:

          Anm and Claire – Stefanie is ‘presumably’ just an empath who has been hurt by a narc, venting her opinions. Fair enough brown nosing Mr Tudor, because he has given us valuable information – but to go against one of your own kind to try and impress him is just sick. The two-faced clique bitches on here who ‘claim’ to be empaths deserve a bit of sarcastic banter, but her comments were accurate.

          1. K says:

            Sarah Jane
            Wrong, Stefanie’s comment demonstrates a cursory understanding of the narcissistic perspective, HG and narcsite and her comment, which was born out of emotional thinking, is patently inaccurate.

            Any empath worth his/her salt would have read through the article and reflected on it BEFORE forming such an inaccurate and emotive response. Wisdom (the ability to think) is the basis of understanding which is one of the ten core empathic traits mentioned in Sitting Target.

            Empaths don’t always move on and thrive; they often stay stuck repeating the same old patterns.

            Q. Who is the sad one in this scenario?
            A. Usually, it is the empath, while the narcissist simply moves on.

            Who’s the loser now.

          2. Sarah Jane says:

            I’m not that interested in your ‘I’m proving I’m intelligent and have been learning from HG’ speech.

            I don’t know who is who, whether Mr Tudor has multiple accounts making these comments to check if information is ‘sinking in’ or what.

            Just be nice. #BeLikeDerek

          3. HG Tudor says:

            I only ever post under my name. I also spot where people operate under multiple accounts and that is not the case with regard to the comments on this thread. Furthermore, I’d caution you to demonstrate good manners with regard to K. She is a longstanding reader and very helpful to all readers here in finding posts and information in my archives , which other readers will confirm.

          4. Sarah Jane says:

            If you felt that it was disrespectful, you could have left it in moderation.

          5. HG Tudor says:

            True, however I do allow most comments through to allow people to express their views (so long as it’s not utterly nonsensical) and to allow debate and so people can observe dynamics and interactions

          6. NarcAngel says:

            Well there’s no debate here, so I guess we’re just observing.

          7. Sarah Jane says:

            Fair enough, Mr Tudor. I’ll try my hardest.

          8. Sarah Jane says:

            It seems like you’re insinuating that I have multiple accounts.

            I do not. But you know this already.

          9. HG Tudor says:

            No, I’m not insinuating that. I know you have not. I pointed out that a small number of individuals occasionally do that – many actually don’t do it for a nefarious reason

          10. K says:

            Thank you HG.

          11. Sarah Jane says:

            You have me in tears, Chewy. Film night is 3 days away yet – surely you can’t keep this up till then.

          12. Mercy says:

            Like 100xs

          13. K says:

            Sarah Jane
            I am not that interested in your hostile and provocative remarks either, however, I do like to address inaccuracies. Here’s a nifty thought: rather than engaging in sarcastic banter, why don’t you brush up on The Five Rules. HG isn’t allowed to manipulate us on the blog by posing under multiple accounts.

            “Just because you’re offended, doesn’t mean you’re right.”
            ― Ricky Gervais

          14. Sarah Jane says:

            Love that.

            I’m not offended, K. It seems you are though. All I was doing was ‘trying’ to stand up for the underdog.

          15. K says:

            Sarah Jane
            Wrong again. Perhaps you should reread Claire and Anm’s comments and cogitate on them.

            Anm directed Stefanie towards MTE and Claire referenced thriver peptide addiction. Anm’s comment was innocuous and Claire’s wasn’t even directed at Stefanie, yet you accused them of:

            1. Brown nosing Mr Tudor.
            2. Going against one of their own to try and impress him (just sick).
            3. Being two-faced clique bitches that deserve sarcastic banter. (devaluation and retaliation)

            Offended, absolutely not. You are a bully and all I was doing was standing up for the underdog. Love that.

          16. Sarah Jane says:

            You’re a narcissist’s wet dream, you truly are. I have zero interest in repetitive details – you sound like Chas and Dave (yes, both of them). #Rabbit

            Mr Tudor told me to respect you, but you just keep pushing don’t you?

            Do you want an apology? Sorry, K. You’re right. I’m wrong.

          17. K says:

            Sarah Jane
            Your apology should be directed at Claire and Anm, not me.

          18. Sarah Jane says:

            I have apologised to all involved. I’m sure they won’t lose any sleep if I don’t do it directly. Do make sure you get some too.

          19. Tappi Tikarrass says:

            Please K and HG
            Allow me to say it

            Fuck off Sarah Jane
            Like a good girl

          20. NarcAngel says:

            Hahaha. Tappi cuttin through it!

          21. K says:

            Tappi Tikarrays
            Ha ha ha…by all means, indulge yourself!

          22. K says:

            Tappi Tikarrass
            Oops, Safari auto corrected your name. Sorry about that!

          23. Sarah Jane says:

            If Mr Tudor wants me to fuck off, I will. Other than that – don’t be so rude. I wonder if the others will be saying how disgusted they are by that remark. Not many I wager.

          24. Caroline-is-fine says:

            Hand raised.

          25. Mercy says:

            Hahaha damn I wanted to say that Tappi! Let that ET out girl!

          26. Caroline-is-fine says:

            Sarah Jane,
            I, for one, understand the essence of what you are saying.

            That said, you are also standing in darkness, in some regards.

            How do I know that?

            It’s the empath/person that I am.

            You have to lose your own chaos/seeking-of-self before you can inspire/make a difference.

            Best wishes.

          27. Sarah Jane says:


            Thank you, Caroline-is-fine.

          28. Caroline-is-fine says:

            You are welcome, Sarah Jane. It’s impressive that you took that well.

      2. Tappi Tikarrass says:

        Awesome Anm
        MTE is the reason I STOPPED looking online for information on narcissism a few years back.

        1. Anm says:

          MTE work is useful, in the sense that she focuses on self healing, and being responsible for your own outcome. The problem I personally have, is her theory that whenever we heal from a narcissist, the narcissist will move on. Not necessarily true.

          Also, how do you logically deal with a narcissist? You may have emotionally healed from them, but you may still have to coparent or work with one. Then what? You may feel nothing for the narc, but they are shouting the sky is red, when you see blue.

          1. HG Tudor says:

            You consult with me and I lead you through it.

          2. Tappi Tikarrass says:

            Her work is nothing new and easily found offline.
            Her monologues are mind numbing. MTE is an info rehasher, nothing more, nothing less.
            I suspect she’s one of HGs kind. An angel with a dirty face.

        2. Tappi Tikarrass says:

          Sarah Jane
          Is the comment above the one that’s got you going? Am I the brown noser you’re referring to in your comment to anm and Claire? It’s unclear from your comment as you’re not brave enough to name names, along with your baselss accusations.

          I was stating my opinion which was formed years before I discovered HG. So again, you’re wrong.

          It’s a bit rich you accusing me of being rude considering the content, both direct and implied, of some of your comments.

          A few WOMEN have already stated forcefully their thoughts on your comments and general behaviour here. I agree with their sentiments.

          I’m direct in my comments. And I’m glad my comment to fuck off hurt you. If you have a problem with the word fuck, it’s not my concern. You’re lucky I didn’t call you a cunt. Though my worst insult to anyone would be arsehole.

          NA is right, there is no debate here. Stop trying to bring the standards of this blog down.

          Don’t bother replying Sarah Jane. I won’t comment on your comments, if you won’t comment on mine. You are persona non gratis to me.

          1. Sarah Jane says:

            I love the word ‘cunt’. And ‘fuck’ is a personal favourite. Fuckpig, face-ache and spunk-monkey make me laugh too.

            Have a pleasant day, bestie.

      3. K says:

        Ha ha ha….thanks for the laugh Anm!

        1. Tappi Tikarrass says:

          No worries bout the autocorrect furfy yesterday dear K xo

          1. K says:

            Tappi Tikarrass
            Ha ha ha…I am not a fan of Safari.

    4. Chihuahuamum says:

      Hi stefanie…many empaths are also controlling when they try to change someone bc they dont want to move on. Their throne(world) they feel is not right without the one theyre dysfunctional with. Its a codependancy and can be said true on both sides. Its true that mostly the victim has the capacity to move on and break their unhealthy ties bc they dont have the personality disorder. The narc does and is forever inprisoned in their need for fuel and others to feel complete and happy with themselves. Truely happy where they are self sufficient permanently.

      1. Caroline-is-fine says:

        I do not like this comment from you, though I recognize your freedom to think it. I can only speak for myself (I’m a SE Magnet), but I feel it is false at its core.

        I feel a total freedom to be myself… and I do not manipulate or try to control narcissists.

        I feel you have gone too far in your characterization of empaths…which may be based in your own weakness/history.

        In fairness, it may be because I am not at all like this depiction you give… but please do consider your judgments on empaths.

        In general, empaths will not want to control… because that has been tried on them (often) at a young age, so they have empathy for those who have been heavily controlled.

        1. Chihuahuamum says:

          Hi caroline…ty for your reply. I didnt say all empaths but there are many that have issues within that they have not been dealt with and they may struggle with codependancy with toxic individuals. I know not all will agree but i feel if youre being abused whether its physical or emotional or psychologically and you stay and keep going back its time to look in the mirror and ask yourself why? Its so easy to keep focusing on the narcissist and what they did and play the blame game and so much is to blame as far as the abuse goes but there is a reason a victim stays and i dont think its just out of empathy. A healthy empath can feel empathy for a dysfunctional person but not feel the need to subject themselves to it over and over but instead they can feel it and move on knowing they have boundaries and self love.

          1. Caroline-is-fine says:

            I understand the point you were making more now. Thank you, Chi….. um.;-)

        2. NarcAngel says:

          Caroline is fine
          This is an honest question and not intended as provocation. Do you not consider it control at all that when you personally were unable to effect change in your ex narc that you attempted to get him into therapy to change his behaviour and then made your exit? Is that not considered control because you believe it to be with good intention?

          1. Caroline-is-fine says:

            I don’t see your question as provocation. He knew I was trying to get him into therapy after a segment of time (I was the one who was to talk to him about it), and he knew I was not going to stay engaged speaking to him after a period of time as well. He did not know when, but I had self-protections in place to go NC.

  7. baileykaren2011 says:

    I have not seen him, but it’s only been five weeks. I thought I would be okay bumping into him even if he is with her. After all, she and I met and talked many times after finding out about each other. It’s been three weeks since I spoke to her and told myself it hurt too much to hear from her again. I have no more questions or answers. It is what it is. However after reading this, I am in no way ready to run into them. Although he can’t come back to me as he would fear I would tell her, he could so destroy me emotionally with just a look. This must have an end.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Well done for realising this, you are paying attention to logic and mastering your Emotional Thinking. Note ‘mastering’ and not ‘mastered’ – you have plenty of work to do and by maintaining a robust no contact you will get your ET under control. Keep going.

      1. baileykaren2011Karen says:

        Thank you. I would still be a total mess if not for your blogs, books and advice.

        1. foolme1time says:

          bailey, I feel the same way you do about the books, blog and advice. Stick with HG and you will get through all of this. 😊

          1. Karen says:

            Thank you.

  8. veronicajones1969 says:

    HG I don’t think I am ammune to narcissists I have failed that enough times to know I cannot trust myself around narcissistic people I have told myself many times I know what I am doing just to allow myself to be sucked in again benign hoovering is my weakness the malignant ones just get my guard up they hurt me but tend to bring out my narcissistic traits What I need to know is how to stop them from wanting to come back when I love someone it’s with my entire being even if I know they are narcissists I never stop I just distance myself when possible I try not to mention them to anyone who knows them occasionally I have been caught out on that one when I believe they are my friend but it’s usually pretty easy to figure out you’ve been betrayed by your own friend when they start avoiding you for no reason after they’ve got the information they want
    What would turn you off ?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      A solid and robust no contact regime is the answer. You should organise a GOSO consultation with me.

      1. veronicajones1969 says:

        GOSO literally puts my life at risk I have been discarded for three years now he gets other people to Hoover me often he has made me out to be completely crazy I probably didn’t help that it really messed with my head and heart in a big way some people know what he is and he still has their loyalty others refuse to accept he has any narcissistic traits at all and I understand that because if I hadn’t experienced it myself from him I would not have been willing to believe it either and I am getting back to myself again but I just need to figure out a way of keeping him at a distance forever it is worrying me because all the people who treated me with Disdain contempt or just pure hatred are now all trying to be friendly with me I don’t buy it it’s definitely a ruse

        1. HG Tudor says:

          GOSO does not put your life at risk. Engagement is what causes the problems for you.

          1. Sarah Jane says:

            There are and have been cases where the Lesser violent narcs have physically assaulted their victims upon leaving though.

  9. Oracle says:

    I understand that the narc will is an Achilles heel. What i wonder, is it not part of the narcassist traits to think they are as powerful as you describe over someone’s life. I would imagine even the lesser think highly of their hold on someone as well as their intellect. So would it ever be possible for a narc to think they are smarter than the empath but be mistaken? Everyone has a weak spot. There will always be someone smarter out there. No one is a without flaws. For me illustrating my point will be my escape and i will escape. I do not think staying would reflect this comparison of witts in my favor. One thing i can count on is that he may wear the mask well but without empathy he does not fully understand. I marvel at the things he does not get. Mr. Tudor, if you will be so kind, i wonder has an empath ever duped you. Or change the script on you so to speak? If so how and what was learned?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      No, no empath has ever duped me. There are those of our kind who do make mistakes though owing to arrogance coupled with a lack of ability.

  10. Mercy says:

    This is all true and I needed this reminder. I can’t count the number of times I thought I could handle it but then fell right into his grip again. This was been a bad weekend. Lots of emotional thinking after so many weeks of feeling nothing. I have to get it together!

    1. Tappi Tikarrass says:

      Hey Mercy
      Write all 5 golden rules down.
      100 times
      Read the emotional sea series.
      Do things that make you feel good or at least distract you. Xo

      1. Sarah Jane says:

        I wouldn’t go that far, because then you’re just living, breathing and shitting them. Awareness is all you need.

      2. Mercy says:

        TT, haha thanks for your advice. I’m not going to write anything 100 times though. Maybe HG will put them on audio so I can play them on repeat 100 times.

        1. Tappi Tikarrass says:

          Glad you realised I was being playful Mercy!
          I’m sure you’re on top of it all…
          Everyone needs a reminder now and then xx

          1. Mercy says:

            TT, that is so true and it’s why I stay. My ET is being a little bitch lately but being here keeps me grounded.

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