Narcissist v Shelf Intimate Partner Secondary Source (“IPSS”)
The following is a breakdown of an interaction between a Middle Mid-Range Narcissist and a Geyser Standard Empath. The two are in a Formal Relationship of Narcissist and Shelf IPSS (“SIPSS”), which those not benefiting from such knowledge would see as a married person who is having an affair with someone who is The Other Woman/Man.
- The narcissist and the SIPSS have spent the weekend together away in a coastal city. Therefore the SIPSS is off the shelf for the extent of the duration. She is painted white. The narcissist received positive fuel of a very good potency (SIPSS), massive quantity (in person, sexual interaction) and constantly (together all weekend).
2. The weekend ends and they leave the coastal city together. SIPSS off shelf and painted white.
3. The two part company and return to their respective homes. The SIPSS is now ON the shelf. This is not devaluation. The SIPSS remains painted white.
4. The following day, SIPSS sends a text to the narcissist
“It was great spending the weekend with you. I can’t wait until we do it again.”
This is pure positive fuel. Very good potency, one off frequency, very low quantity as short and in writing.
There is no response for an hour. The narcissist responds with
“It was great. Yes, we will do it again soon. I have a busy week ahead, so I will text you later on. Missing you.”
The SIPSS remains on the shelf. She remains painted white. This was a comfort crumb from the narcissist. It was pleasant, it maintains the engagement but signals to the SIPSS that she should not expect to hear from the narcissist often.
5. The following day there is no contact between the two. This is not a Silent Treatment, the SIPSS remains on the shelf and painted white.
6. The day after, the narcissist is reminded of the weekend. The SIPSS has entered his sixth sphere of influence. This is a Hoover Trigger. His Intimate Partner Primary Source has gone out for the evening unexpectedly. She in devaluation. Her departure has wounded the narcissist, he sends her an unpleasant text to provoke her in order to gain fuel. He requires fuel to address the wound, he can easily contact the SIPSS by text, social media or telephone, she has no partner, she has not wounded him, she provides excellent fuel and therefore the Hoover Bar is very low and the Hoover Execution Criteria are met. The narcissist telephones SIPSS. She has been taken off the shelf. They speak, fuel is provided, he berates his wife to the SIPSS (triangulation) and speak for about an hour. The call ends. The SIPSS goes back on the shelf and remains painted white.
7. There is no contact between the two of them for three days.
8. The SIPSS sends a text message early in the morning to the narcissist
“How are you? Just wanted to let you know I am missing you.”
Positive fuel. Very good potency, one-off frequency, very low amount.
There is an instant response from the narcissist by text
“I miss you too.”
The SIPSS sends a further text.
“I cannot wait until we can see one another again.”
Positive fuel, very good potency, one-off frequency, very low amount.
There is no response from the narcissist. The SIPSS remains on the shelf. She is painted white. The narcissist has not given a silent treatment but the lack of response is purely symptomatic of being on the shelf.
9. The following day the SIPSS texts the narcissist again early in the morning
“Hi, are you okay?”
Positive fuel, very good potency one-off frequency, very low amount.
There is no response. The SIPSS is still on the shelf, painted white and this is not a silent treatment.
10. She waits thirty minutes and texts again
“Please will you answer me, I hate not hearing from you.”
Positive fuel, very good potency, one-off frequency, very low amount.
Ten minutes later the narcissist replies by text
“I was in the shower. Busy day ahead. Will text later.”
This is a comfort crumb. The SIPSS is on the shelf and painted white.
11. There has been no contact between the two and it is now 5pm. The SIPSS texts again
“I really find it hard not hearing from you.”
This is positive fuel, very good potency, one-off frequency, very low amount.
There is no response from the narcissist. The SIPSS is on the shelf and painted white.
12. She waits ten minutes and texts again
“I thought you said you were going to text me later? This hurts.”
This is now Challenge Fuel. Her admission of hurt is negative fuel (albeit a very small amount as it is contained in a text) – however she is seeking to hold the narcissist to something he stated. The narcissist is NOT wounded by this, but regards this as a challenge to his superiority because the SIPSS is trying to make him feel accountable and this feels like his control is being eroded.
13. The narcissist replies with a text two minutes later
“I told you I had a busy day ahead, I am in a meeting.”
He is providing an explanation and asserting his superiority by looking to close the matter. He has not been provocative and is not seeking fuel from the SIPSS.
14. The SIPSS answers immediately
“Sorry, I didn’t know. When will you text me, or will you give me a call?”
This is Challenge Fuel again. The apology is a very small amount of positive fuel, the request for a call is mildly Challenging BUT aggregates with the earlier text message. The narcissist has not been able to assert the superiority to the extent required.
He texts back immediately
“No idea. V busy. Cannot talk now.”
He is not seeking fuel (he will be well fuelled whatever he is doing – maybe in the meeting or if not in a meeting in some other interaction) but needs to assert superiority and is seeking to close the challenge down. The SIPSS remains on the shelf and remains painted white
15. The SIPPS does not relent. She texts back straight away :-
” Will it be tonight? I want to talk to you, I always enjoy our chats. I hate not hearing from you.”
Again positive Challenge Fuel.
There is no response from the narcissist. His lack of response is designed to assert superiority by halting the conversation and thus the challenge from the SIPSS. The SIPSS remains on the shelf and painted white.
16. The SIPSS texts again :-
“Will it be tonight? I want us to talk, please.”
No response from the narcissist. Same point as above applies.
17. The SIPSS texts again :-
“Just yes or no, that’s all, I miss you.”
Positive Challenge Fuel.
No response from the narcissist. Same point as above applies.
18. The SIPSS texts again :-
“Will you answer me? It will only take you a second. Don’t ignore me.”
Negative Challenge Fuel. The irritation is fuel and the request to answer, prescriptive statement on the time taken and command not to ignore are the challenges.
No response from the narcissist. Same point applies.
19. The SIPSS texts again :-
“Answer me. This is not fair. Stop ignoring me. You had better answer me or I will call you at home on the landline.”
Negative Challenge Fuel. Annoyance plus criticism and threat.
20. The narcissist responds
“I said I am BUSY. Stop texting me. I said I would text you later but you cannot leave it can you? You dare ring my house. If you do, that’s it, it’s over. You’ve pissed me off.”
The narcissist is irritated by the SIPSS failure to accede to his superiority. She is not wounding because fuel is being provided.
The SIPSS repeated failure to stop texting and be patient now means she is painted black. She has failed to accept the narcissist’s superiority. She has not been compliant. The narcissist will now ignore her texts completely. She is being given a Corrective Devaluation which is an absent silent treatment.
21. The upset SIPSS fires off ten more texts. She makes no threats but insults the narcissist and complains about him being unfair and uncaring. These are either pure fuel or challenge fuel. The narcissist does not respond. The SIPSS realises there will be no response so she stops texting. She does not call the home landline.
The narcissist, in accordance with the Corrective Devaluation does not contact the SIPSS at all that night.
The SIPSS is on the shelf, painted black and subject to a Corrective Devaluation.
22. The next day the SIPSS sends a text at midday
“I am really sorry I pestered you yesterday, I know you work hard, it is only because I wanted to hear from you. I won’t do it again. I adore you and I will just wait to hear from you.”
This is pure positive fuel. The narcissist on reading this instinctively recognises that his superiority has been accepted again by the climbdown. The text is a Hoover Trigger. The narcissist sees this climbdown and views the SIPSS as white again. The Hoover Execution Criteria are met and he telephones the SIPSS. The conversation only last 5 minutes but he assures the SIPSS that they will speak tonight.
The SIPSS is still on the shelf, painted white and the Corrective Devaluation has ended.
23. The narcissist recalls his promise to call. This is a Hoover Trigger. The Hoover Execution Criteria are met (he recalls excellent fuel from the SIPSS, she is easy to contact, she has not wounded, there are no obstacles) and thus he does indeed telephone her and they speak for two hours that evening whilst the IPPS is out at the rifle range. For this telephone call the SIPSS is off the shelf, painted white. Positive fuel is provided during the conversation. It is of very good quality as coming from an SIPSS, the frequency is constant for the duration of the call and it is of moderate quantity since it is a telephone call.
Once the call ends, the SIPSS is back on the shelf and painted white.
24. Around midnight with the IPPS sound asleep and the narcissist in his bolthole, he recalls the telephone call (hoover trigger) and again the Hoover Execution Criteria are met ( similar to points above at 23) so he sends a text to the SIPSS. She replies immediately. They text back and forth for an hour. During this exchange the SIPSS is off the shelf and painted white. Positive fuel is provided. It is of very good quality, very frequent and low quantity because it is in writing. The narcissist is in-between engaging with another SIPSS online through social media and thus has two fuel lines open at this point.
When the texting ends, the SIPSS is placed back on the shelf and is painted white. The narcissist engages still with the other SIPSS and does so through Skype engaging in some mutual masturbation. Once that has concluded, the call ends and that SIPSS goes on the shelf also.
Accordingly, this short series of interactions provides the pattern of behaviours, clarifies how the appliance is regarded, how a Corrective Devaluation works, shows the shift from white to black to white, the fuel gathered, the type of interaction occurring and also the entwinement with other appliances also.
23 thoughts on “Narcissist v Shelf Intimate Partner Secondary Source (“IPSS”)”
Abe: PB has to decide upon what council to decide upon. No one can tell me not to give the council that I know from my experience on this planet. And, you neglected to mention that the IPSS will not always have the luxury to see the husband `coming.` Some husbands are stealthy and very smart. Some men are quite sophisticated in the way they treat the IPSS. And sometimes the husband does great harm to his own wife, one way or the other. Whether then or much later. Physical and even financial harm. The woman often pays a steeper price long term, in this life, over all. She is outnumbered in this sexual scenario. Every IPPS male is not all loving and touchy-feely-huggy over these scenarios with another man having sex with his wife. Let each council as they see fit. Nevertheless, my council is for PB. As the wise proverb says There is safety in the multitude of council, and I stand by what I said to PB.
You are taking and interpreting only what you want from my comment, ignoring my other remarks, which were not necessarily about your message but about the way your chose to deliver it.
You also seem to somehow excuse or pity the narcissist woman just because she is a woman.
I am ending this discussion with you, it’s not getting anywhere, probably because of both sides. 🙂
How would this situation play out if the cheating person was not a narcissist? Can someone be a cheater and not a narcissist? And when you have an individual cheating on his/her partner they would use some love bombing but how would it differ from a narcissist situation? The affair would also end at some point but how would that differ as well? Thank you
1. Someone can be unfaithful and not be a narcissist. See The Dirty Empath or an empath or a normal may be unfaithful owing to an external stressor.
2. Narcissist´s love bomb, nobody else does.
Ah, another great depiction of an event that occurred to me recently, thanks HG.
My dynamic went from
IPPS (in the rare event we still hadn’t met in person)
Shelf IPSS (currently painted white)
There is a new issue that has come up, i think I’m in the clear of. A few weeks ago the mid ranger had posed the question she may be pregnant. But confirmed I’m not the reason it is with the ipps.(the timing of possible conception between me and the ipps is close)
However due to her pathological lies and only contacting me via text it’s hard for me to ascertain certainty. She likes new parent baby photography facebook pages and wedding sites ect (which i did not mention to her) but during texting this morning states no I’m not pregnant, (stating she commenced her period a week after i was with her) it does sound like she may be pregnant with her ipps but until such time as they choose to reveal it she will engage with me via text and taking off the shelf..
This is too confusing
You’ve already uncovered the main issue – she’s a pathological liar. If she’s not going to have a baby, you’ll never know for sure if she was pregnant or not, or who would have been the father. If she’s pregnant and keeping, you’ll never be sure if it’s your child or not. In the absence of a DNA test, she’ll always leave that suspicion dangling, you’ll never know, you’ll always be tormented by that question.
Get used to it!
Legally, that child is not yours. There is no legal way for you to interfere (depends on your country’s laws, but I guess it’s similar everywhere – maybe consult with HG about it, he might know more about this king of legal complications).
My advice: forget about her, forget about the baby. GOSO from her, her husband and her child. If you ever communicate with her on this matter, be careful, smart and cunning about what you say, always leave room for plausible deniability. But NC is the golden rule, and I think now you finally understood, the real hard way, why this is true…
Thank you Abe, i appreciate your point of view. Emontional Thinking is more my enemy than anthing else
I’m sorry, I think I sounded a bit too harsh.
But I’ve seen this exact situation with my Nex and her other IPSS – he’s hooked by that child, and she’s sucking his life dry of fuel and residual benefits. He’s a successful and somewhat powerful man, while she’s not extremely bright or attractive, but she’s having him on a leash because of the child.
Get away while you still can.
Once you meet the child and get attached to him/her, it will be too late, it will cost you too much, much more than it’s already costing you.
It’s ok Abe, your honesty is welcome..
I think she tried to bind me a few weeks ago by asking to loan her money for her education… Two things i will not do are
1)send her money (she has a ipps)
2) still want her if she has a child. (from someone else)
You’ll never know for sure if that child is yours or not (biologically). Legally, the child will be of her husband. He’s going to have all the rights. You’ll have none.
If she manages to convince you that it might be your child, you’re bound. You might even convince yourself, despite her claims, that the child is yours (you’re already half believing it, as you said in your first comment).
You might start hating her later, but never your (presumed) biological child.
You’ll spend your life begging for another moment with your (presumed) offspring.
Do you really want this? For you, and for the child.
In the situation of my Nex (I was IPSS too), she was married with her current IPPS when she got pregnant. The other IPSS knows for sure that the child is his (because of some circumstances that allowed this to happen after a few years). And he’s probably hopelessly bound now, but at least he has certainty, although the child is still not legally his.
You might even never have that.
Think about it… And then, stop this.
Leave now, before you attach more deeply.
I am really really sorry for the mess you are in. If she is really pregnant, this situation is extremely tragic.
But I think the only thing you can do is to cut your losses now, before it is too late.
It’s hard and might seem like a cold thing to do for that child (and for yourself). But I see no other logical less painful solution out of this, for you and everybody else involved.
Hi patrick…im curious is your midranger very attractive? I ask bc you say a lot of undesirable qualities about her pathological liar being one of them and yet you seem so attached. From a lot of the men ive come across that were “emotionally” attached to their narc it was more the attraction vs emotional. I know men can still be lured in the same way as women but it seems the visual is more the hook. If she didnt look the way she does would there still be that interest? Im just curious. Men are usually more visual in nature.
Shes toxic. What future could you possibly have with such a person? Maybe its not a future youre looking for but just absorbed in the right now? She does not sound like a person you could build anything with.
Thank you for your input, i do value your perspective.
How to answer…….
Is she attractive?….. I first saw her photos online i was not attracted… Over time she broke into a part on my mind that caused me to obsess, then everything she does and looks became what i want…
Now i find it difficult to split the image of her appearance from personality they are joined… I’ll have to think hard about that because the obsession may cause me to believe that she is wonderful and i look past the flaws and focus on the positive interactions, and in my mind we are similar…. (I’m losing my mind thinking about this)
I am an extremist, in the sense that an ordinary relationship that is Luke warm all the time doesnt appeal to me like the hot cold dynamic.. (i don’t call myself PB for no reason)
I have personality issues that tie in with the narcissism it is toxic from a perspective but drills into my relentless extremist personality… Some times the situations I’ve been in would make a strong person crumble, but i was emotionless and blocked out what was happening… (sorry i can’t explain here)
I don’t feel certain emotions like regret or remorse,,, i do or do not…. I’m impulsive and prone to boredom and feel this need to experience this horrible dynamic, it’s a strange feeling knowing something will tear you up but you go though it anyway…
I somewhat relate to your way of describing yourself.
I can also block my feelings sometimes and no longer experience remorse for the wrong things I do. Sometimes (mostly) I do, sometimes I don’t.
I was also attracted to the push-pull dynamic, the drama. I was (and probably still am) capable of finding beauty in my own pain and in complicated situations.
Getting away is achievable though. Consider it.
I don’t believe in this “men are more attracted by looks than women”. Might be, in the beginning, but once you get infatuated and the idealization phase begins, looks don’t matter anymore.
Men are attracted to narcissist for the same reasons as women – charisma, confidence, sense of humor, drama, looks. It’s a combination.
PB described this quite well, and I went through the same phases. My Nex is physically attractive, but not extremely. I can only ascertain this now, after a few months of NC. Before, she was the most beautiful and interesting woman on earth…
Patrick…id forgot to add that the pregnancy bomb couldve been completely fabricated to get your attention. She may have not thought she was pregnant at all. It worked if it was a tactic and got you emerged in the topic which brought her fuel. Many a female narc has used the “i think i may be pregnant” tool. Remember shes a pathological liar you cant take anything she says as truth.
Hi Chi, i will answer all this soon…. I had a long talk with her… She’s a mid range she can’t out smart me, it’s only her bizarre perspective that eluded me (but with HGs work i gained some understanding)
One thing is certain..
Everything changes,,, and this limbo can’t last
Hi Chi, i think your right… The fabrication, to emerge me…..
What do you think Her IPPS will do to you if he finds you? And also finds out she thought she might have been impregnated during the same time he finds you? What about him? I have heard some real alarming stories about what IPPS males have done when they discover your activity and then your whereabouts and your real name.
(alienate someone’s affections) Law: induce someone to transfer their affection from a person (such as a spouse) with legal rights or claims on them.
ORIGIN early 16th cent.: from Latin alienat- ‘estranged,’ from the verb alienare, from alienus ‘of another’ ] ~~ Google
Also, if the IPPS does something drastic to you, and it is discovered via your communications that you knew he existed in the relationship with her, even if he broke the law against you, the Judges and the Courts lean towards leniency in his acts as acting in a crime of passion because he acted out of passion and emotion because of the betrayal in his relationship, and even was upset by your alienating the natural affection in his relationship. He may hurt her as well. He may not show you any empathy, if he catches you up with you, and he may act upon you in a negative manner in person or via proxy. The IPPS exists in this scenario, in reality, and according to society, and according to the law, despite the fact that he is not being shown any empathy by all involved.
`Sundown, you better take care
If I find you bin creepin’ round my back stairs.
Sundown, you better take care
If I find you bin creepin’ round my back stairs` Sundown. song by ~~Gordon Lightfoot. .
I know it’s not the first time you warn about this. There is some truth in what you’re saying, but mostly I don’t agree with you.
The IPPS is most probably an empath too. These are not people prone to violence, hate, revenge. They usually understand that it takes two to tango, and she is as guilty as the other, if not more so.
In my case, the guy knows about having been cheated, with whom, when, for how long. Most probably, he also knows the child is not his. But after years of investing your love in that kid, you can no longer say “this is not my son anymore”. He did not take any action against the other IPSS(s), including me. She’s still seeing the other IPSS, he has not problem with that (at least, does not let anything show).
I think he is a codependent.
Anyway, I think saying to the IPSS that “you should watch out, the husband might kill you” or “you are a bastard that has no compassion for the IPPS” is not the most productive way of going about the issue. You can manage to either get ignored (“you have no idea what you’re talking about”) or even trigger an adverse reaction (“Let him come, I have nothing to fear. This just adds to the excitement of the situation”).
Abe> I stand by what I say to Patrick. He has all the info. to take the council that applies to his situation. There is safety in a multitude of council, says the wise Proverbs. Wise men have multiple councilors. All Narcissists are not the: beat their chest, `I am going to come and get you and I am telling you ahead of time` sort. Some are very clever and stealthy and play the long game. You will never see them and their malice towards you coming, in order to be able to get what you call: `your excitement` off against them. Because some will get you later, and her later, and neither of you may see it coming. And some will hurt the woman as well, physically or financially or both, now, or at a later date. The woman can be in big trouble if she is caught, because she is outnumbered. Also the majority of men do not take well to another man having sexual intercourse with their wife. It sends them through the hemisphere with rage. If you decide to continue to test whether what I say is true or not, I bet money you will encounter that of which I speak. There is no one that I have ever known that would disbelieve what I am saying, even in jest or just to be contrary. A word to the wise is said to be sufficient. I stand by what I say to Patrick: He has all the personal info. about his dynamic to take the council that applies to his situation, and he has the intelligence to do so.
You’ve already posted this, in a similar form here – https://narcsite.com/2019/08/19/narcissist-v-shelf-intimate-partner-secondary-source-ipss/comment-page-1/#comment-291942
I have replied yesterday.