Narcissist v Shelf Intimate Partner Secondary Source (“IPSS”)



The following is a breakdown of an interaction between a Middle Mid-Range Narcissist and a Geyser Standard Empath. The two are in a Formal Relationship of Narcissist and Shelf IPSS (“SIPSS”), which those not benefiting from such knowledge would see as a married person who is having an affair with someone who is The Other Woman/Man.

  1. The narcissist and the SIPSS have spent the weekend together away in a coastal city. Therefore the SIPSS is off the shelf for the extent of the duration. She is painted white. The narcissist received positive fuel of a very good potency (SIPSS), massive quantity (in person, sexual interaction) and constantly (together all weekend).

2. The weekend ends and they leave the coastal city together. SIPSS off shelf and painted white.

3. The two part company and return to their respective homes. The SIPSS is now ON the shelf. This is not devaluation. The SIPSS remains painted white.

4. The following day, SIPSS sends a text to the narcissist

“It was great spending the weekend with you. I can’t wait until we do it again.”

This is pure positive fuel. Very good potency, one off frequency, very low quantity as short and in writing.

There is no response for an hour. The narcissist responds with

“It was great. Yes, we will do it again soon. I have a busy week ahead, so I will text you later on. Missing you.”

The SIPSS remains on the shelf. She remains painted white. This was a comfort crumb from the narcissist. It was pleasant, it maintains the engagement but signals to the SIPSS that she should not expect to hear from the narcissist often.

5. The following day there is no contact between the two. This is not a Silent Treatment, the SIPSS remains on the shelf and painted white.

6. The day after, the narcissist is reminded of the weekend. The SIPSS has entered his sixth sphere of influence. This is a Hoover Trigger. His Intimate Partner Primary Source has gone out for the evening unexpectedly. She in devaluation. Her departure has wounded the narcissist, he sends her an unpleasant text to provoke her in order to gain fuel. He requires fuel to address the wound, he can easily contact the SIPSS by text, social media or telephone, she has no partner, she has not wounded him, she provides excellent fuel and therefore the Hoover Bar is very low and the Hoover Execution Criteria are met. The narcissist telephones SIPSS. She has been taken off the shelf. They speak, fuel is provided, he berates his wife to the SIPSS (triangulation) and speak for about an hour. The call ends. The SIPSS goes back on the shelf and remains painted white.

7. There is no contact between the two of them for three days.

8. The SIPSS sends a text message early in the morning to the narcissist

“How are you? Just wanted to let you know I am missing you.”

Positive fuel. Very good potency, one-off frequency, very low amount.

There is an instant response from the narcissist by text

“I miss you too.”

The SIPSS sends a further text.

“I cannot wait until we can see one another again.”

Positive fuel, very good potency, one-off frequency, very low amount.

There is no response from the narcissist. The SIPSS remains on the shelf. She is painted white. The narcissist has not given a silent treatment but the lack of response is purely symptomatic of being on the shelf.

9. The following day the SIPSS texts the narcissist again early in the morning

“Hi, are you okay?”

Positive fuel, very good potency one-off frequency, very low amount.

There is no response. The SIPSS is still on the shelf, painted white and this is not a silent treatment.

10. She waits thirty minutes and texts again

“Please will you answer me, I hate not hearing from you.”

Positive fuel, very good potency, one-off frequency, very low amount.

Ten minutes later the narcissist replies by text

“I was in the shower. Busy day ahead. Will text later.”

This is a comfort crumb. The SIPSS is on the shelf and painted white.

11. There has been no contact between the two and it is now 5pm. The SIPSS texts again

“I really find it hard not hearing from you.”

This is positive fuel, very good potency, one-off frequency, very low amount.

There is no response from the narcissist. The SIPSS is on the shelf and painted white.

12. She waits ten minutes and texts again

“I thought you said you were going to text me later? This hurts.”

This is now Challenge Fuel. Her admission of hurt is negative fuel (albeit a very small amount as it is contained in a text) – however she is seeking to hold the narcissist to something he stated. The narcissist is NOT wounded by this, but regards this as a challenge to his superiority because the SIPSS is trying to make him feel accountable and this feels like his control is being eroded.

13. The narcissist replies with a text two minutes later

“I told you I had a busy day ahead, I am in a meeting.”

He is providing an explanation and asserting his superiority by looking to close the matter. He has not been provocative and is not seeking fuel from the SIPSS.

14. The SIPSS answers immediately

“Sorry, I didn’t know. When will you text me, or will you give me a call?”

This is Challenge Fuel again. The apology is a very small amount of positive fuel, the request for a call is mildly Challenging BUT aggregates with the earlier text message. The narcissist has not been able to assert the superiority to the extent required.

He texts back immediately

“No idea. V busy. Cannot talk now.”

He is not seeking fuel (he will be well fuelled whatever he is doing – maybe in the meeting or if not in a meeting in some other interaction) but needs to assert superiority and is seeking to close the challenge down. The SIPSS remains on the shelf and remains painted white

15. The SIPPS does not relent. She texts back straight away :-

” Will it be tonight? I want to talk to you, I always enjoy our chats. I hate not hearing from you.”

Again positive Challenge Fuel.

There is no response from the narcissist. His lack of response is designed to assert superiority by halting the conversation and thus the challenge from the SIPSS. The SIPSS remains on the shelf and painted white.

16. The SIPSS texts again :-

“Will it be tonight? I want us to talk, please.”

No response from the narcissist. Same point as above applies.

17. The SIPSS texts again :-

“Just yes or no, that’s all, I miss you.”

Positive Challenge Fuel.

No response from the narcissist. Same point as above applies.

18. The SIPSS texts again :-

“Will you answer me? It will only take you a second. Don’t ignore me.”

Negative Challenge Fuel. The irritation is fuel and the request to answer, prescriptive statement on the time taken and command not to ignore are the challenges.

No response from the narcissist. Same point applies.

19. The SIPSS texts again :-

“Answer me. This is not fair. Stop ignoring me. You had better answer me or I will call you at home on the landline.”

Negative Challenge Fuel. Annoyance plus criticism and threat.

20. The narcissist responds

“I said I am BUSY. Stop texting me. I said I would text you later but you cannot leave it can you? You dare ring my house. If you do, that’s it, it’s over. You’ve pissed me off.”

The narcissist is irritated by the SIPSS failure to accede to his superiority. She is not wounding because fuel is being provided.

The SIPSS repeated failure to stop texting and be patient now means she is painted black. She has failed to accept the narcissist’s superiority. She has not been compliant. The narcissist will now ignore her texts completely. She is being given a Corrective Devaluation which is an absent silent treatment.

21. The upset SIPSS fires off ten more texts. She makes no threats but insults the narcissist and complains about him being unfair and uncaring. These are either pure fuel or challenge fuel. The narcissist does not respond. The SIPSS realises there will be no response so she stops texting. She does not call the home landline.

The narcissist, in accordance with the Corrective Devaluation does not contact the SIPSS at all that night.

The SIPSS is on the shelf, painted black and subject to a Corrective Devaluation.

22. The next day the SIPSS sends a text at midday

“I am really sorry I pestered you yesterday, I know you work hard, it is only because I wanted to hear from you. I won’t do it again. I adore you and I will just wait to hear from you.”

This is pure positive fuel. The narcissist on reading this instinctively recognises that his superiority has been accepted again by the climbdown. The text is a Hoover Trigger. The narcissist sees this climbdown and views the SIPSS as white again. The Hoover Execution Criteria are met and he telephones the SIPSS. The conversation only last 5 minutes but he assures the SIPSS that they will speak tonight.

The SIPSS is still on the shelf, painted white and the Corrective Devaluation has ended.

23. The narcissist recalls his promise to call. This is a Hoover Trigger. The Hoover Execution Criteria are met (he recalls excellent fuel from the SIPSS, she is easy to contact, she has not wounded, there are no obstacles) and thus he does indeed telephone her and they speak for two hours that evening whilst the IPPS is out at the rifle range. For this telephone call the SIPSS is off the shelf, painted white. Positive fuel is provided during the conversation. It is of very good quality as coming from an SIPSS, the frequency is constant for the duration of the call and it is of moderate quantity since it is a telephone call.

Once the call ends, the SIPSS is back on the shelf and painted white.

24. Around midnight with the IPPS sound asleep and the narcissist in his bolthole, he recalls the telephone call (hoover trigger) and again the Hoover Execution Criteria are met ( similar to points above at 23) so he sends a text to the SIPSS. She replies immediately. They text back and forth for an hour. During this exchange the SIPSS is off the shelf and painted white. Positive fuel is provided. It is of very good quality, very frequent and low quantity because it is in writing. The narcissist is in-between engaging with another SIPSS online through social media and thus has two fuel lines open at this point.

When the texting ends, the SIPSS is placed back on the shelf and is painted white. The narcissist engages still with the other SIPSS and does so through Skype engaging in some mutual masturbation. Once that has concluded, the call ends and that SIPSS goes on the shelf also.

Accordingly, this short series of interactions provides the pattern of behaviours, clarifies how the appliance is regarded, how a Corrective Devaluation works, shows the shift from white to black to white, the fuel gathered, the type of interaction occurring and also the entwinement with other appliances also.




52 thoughts on “Narcissist v Shelf Intimate Partner Secondary Source (“IPSS”)

  1. Not Me! says:

    Hi, is there a reason I’m not seeing new comments on posts?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Yes, I have not been moderating them.

      1. Notme! says:

        Yay! HG is back!!!!

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Yes, he is.

          1. Violetta says:

            The populace rejoices.

  2. Dorion says:

    This could be an exchange between anyone though, not only a narcissist and empath(s). Especially if those individuals are just causally dating and/or openly non-monogamous. I agree with the other comment that the SIPSS’ persistence would likely be annoying to many people, whether they are truly busy or just not in the mood for communicating.

  3. Sweetest Perfection says:

    I was a terrible supply. I told him I didn’t need that because he was just an extra on point 12. That was my last text, a year and 6 montos ago now. I’ve never been happier to fail a test!

    1. Sweetest Perfection says:

      Wtf is “montos,” sweet autocorrect of mine?

      1. BL says:

        Lol, SP! I thought you were just being fancy with your “montos”. 😂

        1. Sweetest Perfection says:

          Haha BL of course. Montos are monotonous months without the narc, albeit quiet and free of drama!

  4. BL says:

    I would have painted her black too in that middle section. Text once and let it go, SIPSS. 😂

    1. SMH says:

      Me too, BL, and I was on the shelf all the time! I never initiated contact and would never have texted twice in a row anyway. SIPSS is annoying.

      1. BL says:

        SMH, Lol, I agree, SIPSS is annoying! I live on the shelf. The first rule of shelf life, never EVER double text the narc. I will on the rare occasion initiate a text, but only if it’s a one line naughty sext and we are currently in that “zone”. But even that is very rare.

        1. SMH says:

          BL, Sounds like me. We must have been with (or you still are with) the same N maybe at the same time. Two little empaths sitting on a shelf. One texted back and the other checked herself!

          1. BL says:

            SMH, yes, I’m still with him so your rhyme works! Love it! 😂

  5. NotMe! says:

    HG or anyone,
    I still get confused about this, and I hate that I care.
    I was a shelf IPSS I think but we had a daily appointment to text or speak. This was N’s idea and he guarded it jealously, even when I would suggest that we be more flexible and not exoect each other to be always available at a set time etc. Was this just about control? Him ensuring that I remained where I was supposed to be at a given time, therefore unlikely to be with someone else? I wondered if it was about the facade too, he’d say ‘it’s really important that we are in touch daily and it’s most convenient if we have a set time’.

    I can can get my head around the idea that I was on and off the shelf outside of our daily ‘chat’, but does it make sense from an N perspective that he wanted it to be a standing arrangement though, rather than at his whim?

    I did used to challenge him about ‘putting me back in my box’. And I’d get silent treatments for a day usually at most. When I was getting chopsy, I’d text earlier in the day and say I wouldn’t be available in the evening and he’d be cool about that, but when I ignored his messages he’d spit his dummy and hoover repeatedly – gradually more and more irrate messages- like those of the IPSS above. Was that just control too?
    Yes, I know this is dripping with ET but a hoover is looming and I’m flapping like a budgie. Thank you

    1. HG Tudor says:

      It is about control, both in terms of ensuring he knew you were under his control and to avoid the potential for that control to be interfered with by a challenging external third party. It also is designed to make you feel special. He makes it a standing arrangement which YOU must stick to, but because of his sense of entitlement, lack of emotional empathy and lack of accountability, he can do what he wants and if he did not want to stick to it, he would not do so.
      When you ignored his messages, you wounded him. See the 3 Key Interactions Logic Bulletin.

    2. BL says:

      NotMe – I have a weekly schedule. The times I purposefully say I’m busy will usually land me a silent treatment the following week. I just go about normally and wait for the following week to roll around and then answer as if nothing was wrong. It is an exhausting game at times.

  6. Vanessa says:

    Does your ever get mad if you are turned down for sex and thus say it is because you feel rejected? Does that even sound like your kind? I have a male I have known for 15 years we recently got back together but when I turn him down for sex it’s like he punishes me by going to sleep on the couch or what not, when he does get sex if he is a good boy then he is like a kid in a candy store very sweet loving and will do whatever you ask of him, to me it sounds as if he has major issues but I am not sure if he is your kind. I like to believe I have studied enough to be able to tell plus most of my family members are your kind with one being a psychopath. This guy is hard for me to read. I see him as very insecure if anything.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      If you reject a narcissist who wants sex, Vanessa, that will either wound or more likely (dependent on the method of rejection) amount to Challenge Fuel.

      The behaviour you describe is indicative but cannot be determinative in isolation. I recommend you put the individual through the Narc Detector Consultation to get an accurate determination.

    2. Misti M casinger says:

      I went through this a couple weeks ago…it was odd. I’ve only turned it down 2 times in 2 years. I just didnt want to because he already told me I wouldn’t “get there” and I had a choice. The night before I dsidnt get there either. So I said no. He was upset. For 3 days he didnt come to bed with me. Or cuddle me. Or sat on the other couch. And the weird thing the beginning of the re mlm relationship he wouldnt “get me there” I asked if he would. He would tell me that I dont get him there mentally. But I argued that his body gets there and my body doesnt. And I wanted the choice to have sex and know ahead of time if I would get mine. He really smooth talked me and told me that not every time will we both get ours…true..valid…but I argued..that it was correct but it’s different if we just try to help each other or if we just dont what so ever. So he told me I could have the choice. But when I made that choice..I felt like I was in trouble. I asked him if he was punishing me. He said no. He just didnt feel like being close and he rationalized tha we’ve done other olay video games etc to be close…and that was true as well…so again..I cant tell.

  7. Chihuahuamum says:

    Ive been shelved intimately many times on and off i cant count. The narcs always there for me as far as interacting but the dynamics go from hot and heavy to friends which i now know to be something in his matrix or rather someone as well as him getting bored and recycling between sources.
    If i didnt enjoy the friendship companionship part and what we share i wouldve left yrs ago. Also if it had been a primary relationship he wouldve been longggg gone! Ive already got one of those that didnt turn out i dont need two.
    I have pestered aka reminded him how he shouldnt take me for granted and it has resulted in challenge fuel. He has become defensive and thats when i have disengaged for a couple days bc i dont want to be around someone who isnt treating me with the respect i give. Its all a cycle thats been repeated many times. Im now at the point im more invested in my own interests and not as relaint on the narc which has been a huge improvement and freeing!
    Now when im shelfed i look at it as a break to focus on me and it no longer bothers me.

    1. Christopher Jackson says:

      I like your pic you look nice c mom 😮

    2. BL says:

      Chi- I’m the same with my narc now. I don’t let the silent periods bother me. Every once in a while when he comes back I’ll be too busy for him, just to keep him on his toes. It works for me for now. We are the same as you two; friends a long time, worth holding on to, but not primary material and no aspirations to be.

      1. Chihuahuamum says:

        Hi BL…it sounds like we have a lot in common with our narcs. Yes from the get go it was never going to be a primary real relationship in that respect. Its more a friendship of sorts. I do enjoy his company and despite the fact hes a narc i do love and care aboit him. Hes become very important to me but where its changed is im not as reliant and ive learned to curb my insecurities. Ive had to bc hes made me insecure many times and it was creating a lot of stress. When he shelves me with our level of intimacy i stay neutral i dont get upset over it and i dont make it seem im happy for the break. You could say i try to keep a poker face. I try to focus on what makes me happy apart from him whereas in the old days HE alone was what made me happy whicjwas not healthy. Im way happier now bci put focus back onto my own life seperate from his.

        1. BL says:

          Chi – I think we have the same life. Narc and I have been friends a long time, so it would be hard to let go of completely. I was driving myself crazy when I first landed on the shelf, and then I decided I had to choose to either let him go or be content to be this in his life. Since I never wanted to be primary, I chose shelf life. I do exactly as you do – stay completely neutral no matter where we stand. I’m never upset with him, I’m never happy with him, I just exist. I enjoy him while he’s around and enjoy other things when he’s not.

          1. Sweetest Perfection says:

            BL, it is hard but it is possible and in the end you realize the only friend in that “friendship” was you. 10 years of “friendship” with my narc. We live in the same city, work in the same field, have work colleagues, friends in common, and even our spouses are connected on Facebook. I’m NC and he’s blocked everywhere. I don’t talk to his flying monkeys and stay away from his frequent places to hang out. It helps you see reality from a detached perspective. You aren’t friends, you are his stored “food.” Go away.

          2. Mercy says:

            BL and CHi, I use to think I wanted that too. Then I realized I was conforming to what he wanted. He wanted me to be the good little girl that didn’t make noise while sitting on the shelf. All while he was getting fuel somewhere else. I realized it no way to live. I want to live a full life.

          3. SMH says:

            Me too, Mercy, BL, Chi and SP. Sometimes I kid myself that I could have done it. But in reality I could not. I demand to be seen and heard. That’s me so I would be losing a huge part of myself remaining neutral. I think some part of me also thought that he would also think I was boring if I did not resist and the manipulations would have gotten worse. I saw how he treated IPPS.

          4. Mercy says:

            SMH, in my experience, you’re right. If one manipulation isn’t getting a reaction they move on to a different one. Just when I would get comfortable at one level it was time to move on to level two then three and on and on. I could have stayed but whats in it for me? Never any loyalty, truthfulness, compassion, interest in my life, my family. I’ll never have sex with him again so I can’t see him (I literally can’t be in the same room with him and not have sex). What does that leave? The last months it was constant text, emails and phone calls. But for what? We weren’t friends. There’s literally nothing there. I use to think I could handle it and I did, but what was the point? I was stubborn and my pride wouldn’t let me let it go.

          5. SMH says:

            Mercy, I think it must be a co-d tendency to stay and take it. I saw that the manipulations got worse during the NISS phase and I saw no point in being friends with someone who gave nothing back. It is demeaning and it is tiring, as it is with narc friends. By the time I got an ST, I was so done walking on eggshells. I pointed out to him exactly what he did – including the timeline of the ST (and mini-STs) — but I am not sure he got it – that lack of awareness of a mid-ranger. I used to think we couldn’t be in the same room without sex either but the last time I saw him, I had absolutely no desire. I think I had realized that he had a mental disorder (having found HG by then left me with no doubts) and that changed things. Of course with time all of that fades and one only remembers the good parts/golden period because we are positive like that. I wish it was only the bad stuff we remembered! It’s hell being an empath, isn’t it?! xo

          6. BL says:

            I guess I use the term “friends” loosely. No, we are not real friends. At one point I felt we were, but once we crossed the line and the seduction took place followed by the instantaneous shelving, the friendship died. Now we are only sext partners, which works for me. I’m sad for the loss of the friend I thought I had, but I enjoy this new sexually freeing person as well. And as much as I’m excited to see his name pop up in a text, I do make a point of not being available even when I want to be just so he knows I won’t drop everything for him. As I said, it works for now. If it starts to bring me down or disrupt my life, I know I’ll have to go NC.

          7. BL says:

            Mercy, I totally get what you’re saying and I have gotten to that point a number of times too. I’ll likely never have sex with him again, the friendship is mostly a fraud, so we’re left with texting; and a game of texting at that bc it’s filled with narc rules. I’m sure I’ll eventually land where you are bc more than once I’ve said, “what’s the point?” For now the spicy texts keep me interested though! Lol.

    3. Fuel Shortage says:

      Chihuahua mom….
      You have pretty much accurately describe the current dynamic between piano boy and I. He has Curbed the sexual intimacy and has become a friend. He rarely ignores me and is always there for me now, however he will not see me and he will not indulge sexually with me. He acts like some hero on a horse as he “does the right thing”. It’s out in away because he used to ignore me way more than he does now. I am not sure what to make of this dynamic, but probably like you said he’s getting some action elsewhere.

      1. HG Tudor says:

        You should make this of him.

        He is a narcissist. GOSO.

      2. Chihuahuamum says:

        Hi fuel shortage…i used to wonder too why the narc would be ok with no intimacy yet still stick around and its simple…he recycles between sources. He still enjoys the attention and fuel even if it isnt sex and also maintain his hold on his matrix and the sources in it. The bottom line i ask myself is am i getting something from this relationship? Is it worth staying in it? And both are yes…for right now. Tbh its gotten to the point i wouldnt want the initmacy as much as before. Ive kind of lost that loving feeling and shelving will do that over time. That said i do enjoy my time with him hes fun, humorous and interesting. I cringe saying friends bc true friendship with a narc doesnt exist instead i say a sort of friendship. Ive accepted the dynamics of who he is bc im still getting something from our relationship and i do genuinely care and love him. Does that mean im not hurt from the shelving? No i have been hurt from it but i also know what im dealing with and thats a disordered person but hes also person aside from npd and there are aspects i truely enjoy. Life is ever changing tho so i wont say this is how itll be forever but i know i wont cut him out of my life unless he did something unforgivable or that threatened me but hes never been that way.
        Its very much a personal choice and i fully accept what goes along with it. Im not saying its a wise choice or the right one and most definitely am not encouraging staying with a narc!

        1. BL says:

          Perfectly said, Chi. I totally get you. I AM you! 😂💗

          1. Shelf Fuel says:


            “I cringe saying friends bc true friendship with a narc doesnt exist instead i say a sort of friendship. Ive accepted the dynamics of who he is bc im still getting something from our relationship and i do genuinely care and love him.”

            Nailed it, word for word!

            I miss the sexual intimacy though, I won’t lie. Our new dynamic began back in August though. And he has not silented or ghosted me since then. It’s like the sex was coupled with the ghosting or something.

            Only difference is he won’t see me in person anymore (I live about an hour away). He says that he does not trust himself around me. And that his morality needs to win over his biology.

          2. BL says:

            Shelf Fuel – if you don’t mind me asking, did sex the first time lead to ghosting? This is what happened to me. I was seduced for 3 months non-stop and the very first time we had sex he started to disappear. I tried to just walk away like a normal person bc I assumed he regretted it, but he would not let me go. Once I agreed to sext only and not try to meet in person again, he stopped ghosting me.

          3. Fuel Shortage says:

            Hi BL,..
            Yeah, it did. Whenever intimacy was involved I was always ghosted. He drew the line in the sand and said he was going to do the right thing and he was going to stop having sex with me. So far he has showed tremendous resolve in this. That is so weird. It is like we are still having an intimate relationship but we are not having sex. he keeps saying he is on this noble crusade of his to do the right thing and be a proper friend to me. 🙄

          4. Whitney says:

            Never knew a guy who wanted to be “friends” until a Narc. One of their most confusing behaviours and phases.
            It’s not genuine. They don’t wanna be friends. You did have sex before. He still thinks he owns you. It just suits him to not have sex anymore because of facade management. He doesn’t want his fuel potential stifled by being in a relationship. It’s grandiose when they deny sex to an attractive woman.

          5. Violetta says:

            He: We can’t have nothin
            She: It all depends
            He: Well if we can’t be lovers than we can’t be friends
            She: Well then I guess it’s nothing

            – Positive K

            Whitney, if they can say it, we can say it

          6. BL says:

            Shelf Life – yes, mine has shown a lot of resolve as well. He claims his IPPS denies him sex, but it’s such a lie. If he’s horny (which it seems so in his sexts, though I suppose this could be a lie too) and I’m willing, it just doesn’t add up. So I’ve accepted that he’s a liar and, like you, continue an intimate non-physical relationship with him. For now.
            Whitney – what you said makes a lot of sense. Denying an attractive woman sex must do something for them. I’m not saying I’m all that, but I take care of myself better than he does himself.

          7. Chihuahuamum says:

            Hi shelf fuel…your narc sounds like a religious narc like hes playing the sinners card. Hes definitely a midranger id say or seems to be one.
            The replies about our two narcs are so true. Some i dont like reading but its true. I know in my heart of hearts the narc is always in a state of playing games but to some extent so am i bc i only stay for what we have left and once that changes i will walk away to some extent. I wouldnt disappear but i wont invest as much or any time in him. My life is busy enough its amazing the time i do find for him. Itd be a lot easier juggling things. I look back over the span of years and ive changed drastically. At the beginning i was very reliant on him and id say severely codependant to the point i was in a lot of anxiety. I was a mess worrying about losing him. Then there was the confusion and hurt over the hot and luke warm phases. I felt something was wrong with me. Until i learned about npd here and understood its not me and he probably does this to many other sources. I still feel sadness over the loss of what i thought he was but i feel freedom too bc i dont yearn for that image. I know its not me its his npd. Its morphed into an odd relationship but i do still enjoy the time we spend together for the most part but its not perfect the npd rears up here and there. Sometimes when i see his npd is cropping up i take a break from him. Its not ideal and i can see many people thinking dump his npd ass and HG screaming goso lol i know theyre right but here i am today still involved. Maybe one day i will get fed up and fade him out of my life.

          8. Whitney says:

            BL there’s no doubt in my mind, he is absolutely beneath you. You are so far above him, BL. They are willing to do absolutely anything to put themselves on a pedastool and put you down. This confusing and devaluing behaviour causes you to try harder, and makes you strive towards this pathetic narcissist who you’d otherwise avoid.

        2. C-3PO's daughter says:

          Chihuahuamum, and others,

          I’m guessing you’ve read chapter and verse about NPD, and could probably have earned a degree or built a business by now with the time and analysis you’ve spent on it. You’ve read all of HG’s guidance. You like his posts, his stories ring true and you know advice given makes sense. You know about GOSO but you’re not implementing it.
          Why not?

          Seriously, what is stopping you?

          Is narcissism and disfunctional relationships your hobby? Have you no interests and ambitions outside of this to turn your full focus on? Do you genuinely believe in a world of 7 billion people this specimen is the best you can do? I’m exaggerating here as in reality you’ll have a smaller pool of men to choose from but I’d confidently bet you think he’s far more impressive than he actually is. Is your self esteem that low?

          I’m being cruel here but these are serious questions. You know that continuing to engage only hurts you. But you’re still doing it. You’re telling yourself that you’re getting something out of it…wtf.

          If you’re chemically and psychologically addicted and can’t quit on your own, are you getting help?

          I don’t mean HGs blog. If you’ve been commenting on here since forever and are still doing this shit then clearly this isn’t enough on its own. It might be several problems you need to tackle but honestly these comments read like people going round in circles. I hope I’m wrong and looking at the full picture you’re actually making progress compared to where you’ve been… but it certainly doesn’t read that way.

          Can I ask something? If the narcissists in your lives, bad boys in general disappeared overnight -you had no drama, highs and lows from interacting with them taking up your attention – would you be happy? Do you think there may be something lacking in your own perception of yourself that you don’t want to be free of the drama?

          Pet theory – illogical, spurious, black and white, “either or” thinking is ruling you I.e. It’s EITHER the good sex, drama and fantasy of the strong bad boy OR nice but boring low sperm count partner. Life is hard and unexciting without the numbing effect of alcohol, fantasy, drugs, self harm, drama of exciting disfunctional relationships and it’s easier to stay than tackle the real problems (what’s bothering you deep down – bad childhood? – and breaking the physical/psychological addiction).
          I am guessing you’re mostly women too, taught (especially bad for older generations) romantic love and a relationship with a man is the most important thing there is – anything is better than being alone, right?

          Damn it. God DAMN it. Please, for the love of God:


          (Get Out, Stay the Fuck Out, Unless You’re Stupid in Which Case Go Ahead, There’s One Born Every Minute, It’s Your Funeral

      3. WokeAF says:

        Fuel Shortsge
        He’s banging a new IPSS
        But is keeping you on good terms until he’s bored of her

        That’s my guess

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Don’t guess, GOSO.

          1. WokeAF says:

            WELL YEAH obviously – 😉

    4. C-3PO's daughter says:

      “I’m now at the point where I’m more invested in my own interests”.

      Uh huh. Sure. Soooo invested in your own interests. You can tell by how little time you spend reading and writing about NPD, and by how little time you spend thinking about this guy. I mean, you barely give him a second’s thought, you’re so busy with your own life. A woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle, right? Plenty of other hot men lined up too, no doubt. The only reason you’re bothering to give this guy the time of day because you’re such a generous, kind person…right?

      “Now when I’m shelved….it no longer bothers me”.

      🙁 You don’t even care anymore you’re being treated like you don’t matter?

      Why are you not GOSOing? Truthfully?

      1. BL says:

        C-3PO, I won’t answer for everyone else, but for me, this was never a primary relationship anyway. The reason I ended up here reading about narcissism is because things fizzled and I’d ask why and not get an answer, so then I’d try to walk away but he didn’t want me to go, so I was looking for answers. I was in my head so much and it was driving me crazy trying to figure out what I did wrong or what he wanted from me. So coming here clarified what he wouldn’t or couldn’t tell me. Now that I understand that I did nothing wrong and this is just the way it is, I am accepting of my situation. I enjoy the time we have together. One thing HG posted once really sat with me. He said you see your regular friends and then don’t hear from them for a while or send them a text and don’t hear back immediately and you don’t freak out (obviously I’m paraphrasing) so why freak out when you don’t immediately hear back from the narc? And it’s true for me. I may not hear back for a few days, but he always come back. It’s all good.

        1. Mercy says:

          BL & c-3po, I agree with c-3po to a certain extent although it sounds like she’s taking it personal. One thing that we shouldn’t forget is that we are all on different levels of learning. Others may know what they have to do but haven’t made the commitment to themselves to make a change. BL, Ive been where you are. Some days are great, some days you feel nothing and alot of days are bad. Moods change when the wind blows. Our emotional thinking tricks us into thinking we are ok. Today may be ok but who knows what tomorrow will bring. Alot of what c3 says is true, eventually we have to take action in order to make change. I won’t judge you for what you’ve decided is right for you. I have been in your shoes though, so remember when it’s bad, you have all the information you need here and the support of those who have been through it.

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