Watching You Crumble

WATCHING YOU CRUMBLE

We don’t provide support. We are too concerned with ourselves and our daily hunt for the fuel that we need to be concerned about you. We are engrossed in our own world and have no interest in yours. The only time we pay attention to you is when you are providing us with fuel or you stop providing us with fuel. Everything we do is focussed around us. This is because we have to obtain fuel, as without we will disintegrate. The hunger for this fuel is never ending and accordingly all of our energy must be applied towards obtaining it. This leaves us with nothing left over for anyone else.

Being a caregiver yourself, you would like to think that the person who you share your life with, or who you work closely with, would be amenable to providing you with support. That may mean giving you emotional support when you are experiencing a difficult time or taking the strain allowing you to lessen the burden on yourself. You give and you are happy to do so, therefore why should they not do so as well? That is the outlook of someone normal operating by the norms and rules of your world. Those do not apply to us. We cannot provide you with support since we have nothing available to do so.

Added to that we do not know how to provide emotional support. Yes we can see how chores can be done and the like. We also have observed the ways that you provide emotional support to other people and we know the phrases that are used, the expressions that are formed on people’s faces and the gestures that are made. We have seen all that and we could trot all that out. In fact we have done in the past. We did this when we were seducing you. When we wanted you to divulge about your weaknesses and vulnerabilities this will have invariably saddened you and upset you. It may even have caused an episode where you need emotional support. We were happy to go through the motions then because we were at the stage of investing in your in order to get our fuel. We were content to make the right noises, give you a hug and make the panacea that is the cup of tea. All of this was learned from others. We did not feel anything for you. We could not put ourselves in your shoes (heaven forbid that would ever happen) and we could not empathise with what you were experiencing and nor can we ever do that. Yet again, we conned you into thinking that we are a caring and selfless person. We demonstrated such an approach when we were first together and that attracted you to us. This raised expectations that you could rely on us and turn to us when the need arose. It is all false.

Furthermore, when you need support and expect it from us, you are showing to us how you are weak. We despise weakness. You will find that our kind is rarely found near children, the infirm and ill and the elderly. This is because they are all weak and want support regularly. We do not want to be reminded of that fact. We cannot be bothered with you cluttering up our route to fuel. An exhibition of weakness infuriates us. A normal person would see someone in a position of weakness and deign to help and assist. We have seen how this is a natural reaction in normal people. It will not happen with us.

If you are fortunate, we will absent ourselves from the situation in an instant. We will generate some urgent reason; find a pressing engagement we had forgotten about in order to ensure we can get away from you and your ailment, woe or injury. You probably will never see us move as quick when it comes to getting away from somebody who needs help. If we are unable to exit the situation then we may just stand and look at you. You could be reaching out to us, eyes filled with tears of pain, asking for help and we will just give you a blank stare. We know we ought to be helping you, convention and observation has told us this, but we cannot do so. We are unable to leave but we are also unable to help you. This requires compassion and we do not have any. It requires us to us our energies to help you out and we are forbidden from doing so.

Our ultimate reaction where you need support from us is to go on the offensive. The uncomfortable feeling that you have generated inside of us makes us feel less powerful and smacks of inferiority. We know of only one way to banish such a sensation. We need to reassert our power and that means we must lash out at you. It becomes necessary to subject you to further insults and denigrating comments, at a time when you are feeling hurt and vulnerable.

“What are you crying for? I have had worse happen to me.”

“I am sick and tired of you being pathetic. Deal with it.”

“I bet (insert name of triangulated individual) would not make such a song and dance about it like you do.”

“It’s only a dog, you can get another one. Seriously, what a display over a dumb animal.”

“You are hysterical, you need to get help.”

“Stop crying or I will give you something to cry about.”

“That’s right; make it about you on my special day.”

We will lash out at you with these words in order to make you feel worse and ourselves feel better because that is all we care about. We fooled you into thinking that we care about you. That is a fallacy. Do not expect us to support you.

Demonstrating our legendary hypocrisy we will expect you to always be there for us. When we have a need you must attend to it straight away, even if you are experiencing difficulties yourself. When we have a scratch we expect you to make it better even though you might be bleeding to death before us. As with so much of our behaviour we do not regard the way we act towards you as meaning you should behave the same way towards us. If you chopped us in half you would most likely find this stencilled through us like lettering on a stick of rock

“Do as I say, not do as I do.”

73 thoughts on “Watching You Crumble

  1. WhoCares says:

    ​Watching you crumble…or watching you laying on the bed hugging your belly because the Braxton Hicks contractions are so painful and intense that you cannot move and feel that the baby just *might* come early… because something doesn’t feel right…only you can’t focus after a spate of verbal accusations and you cannot fathom why someone would continue in this way when clearly the person – they supposedly love – who needs them is in distress…someone who seems almost gleeful at your apparent discomfort and intense pain…and it almost seems perplexing to them too – as if *maybe* they should choose to appear caring and concerned in this moment put they are too hooked on the incoming sense of power they are feeling in the moment and *that* overrides the need to maintain the facade.

    That was the moment when I should have realized that he had no heart.

    1. Kristin says:

      WhoCares,
      Thank you for sharing your heartbreaking story, I cannot imagine. How many times have we all looked back and thought, why didn’t I see him for what he was? I believe our empath traits blind us to reality and it is only when we step back that we can finally see the truth. Hindsight, but it hurts like hell.

      1. WhoCares says:

        Thank-you Kristin. It was a long time ago.
        We can rarely see the truth for what it is when we are still in the heart of the fog and confusion. I no longer have the same emotions attached to the how & why when I write examples like that. But it was a ‘stand out’ moment from my interactions with my narcissist. There were some supportive gestures he did during my pregnancy but at the moments when I was truly in distress or in need, I would have been better off alone then with his “support.”

        1. Lorelei says:

          I’m sorry that happened and can actually see it. He didn’t even mean to be unkind. It just is who he is and was.

          1. WhoCares says:

            Exactly Lorelei, but that doesn’t make it okay.

          2. Lorelei says:

            Exactly—it’s just amazing to me that their sense of self is depleted to support a defense mechanism, and they function like toddlers in a way. The hurt they cause.. My ex was reasonably engaged during child birth—more so the first time. It actually compelled me to look back when you posted your story & see a timeline of behavioral evolution.

    2. WiserNow says:

      WhoCares,

      Even though it was a long time ago, I’m sorry you went through that. The way you have described it is visually very clear. You’re right, he had no heart, no compassion and no conscience. Even though you were carrying *his* child. He had no personal compulsion to care even for his own flesh and blood.

      With a sense of detachment, I find this condition of narcissism curious in many aspects, and your comment brings up questions in my mind.

      Okay, there is no empathy, no conscience, but why is there a need to be ‘almost gleeful’? I have seen this attitude of glee or delight many times in my family members. Any time they feel even a small sense of ‘victory’ over someone, in any way, they get this look of glee or delight. I think it’s because they need to feel a sense of superiority or a feeling that they are ‘above’ someone else in some way.

      At the same time as craving that sense of ‘superiority’, they also seem lost or needy or terrified of being alone. They seem incapable of living life using their own personal skills and capacities. So, while they ‘need’ you, they also will not or cannot accept you as an ‘equal’. And they also seem blind to their own hypocrisy.

      It is perplexing when our emotional reactions of hurt, anger, resentment, etc are taken out of the picture.

      1. WhoCares says:

        WiserNow,

        Thank-you for your kind and thoughtful words.
        I think HG would say the ‘glee’ could be interpreted as (in this instance) as the reaction to the influx of the feeling of power through the fuel as evidenced by my distress and confusion. And maybe at that time, since my narcissist unconsciously recognized that my distress was due to him on two fronts: the fact that the pain and discomfort I was in was because I was carrying *his* child and, layered on top of that, the surface level emotional pain of his accusations…plus, a third layer, actually (as I type this): my confusion regarding his behaviour and lack of response. No wonder he was “gleeful” – such power. No wonder he struggled, in that moment, with making the shift to facade maintenance. I know most people would label that as evil or ‘sick’ behaviour but knowing what I know now, he just couldn’t help it. It doesn’t make it okay that it occurred – the fact that he couldn’t help it – but it does make sense of the behaviour and makes it very clear when their best interests lay.

        You’re right. I am sure that it did make him feel victorious.

        1. WiserNow says:

          WhoCares,

          You’re welcome, and thank you also for your insights and experienced logic about what was a painful time in your life. Although they are cliches, I also think that it’s true, that suffering leads to enlightenment, and also that ‘protecting your heart’ is the most important thing when it comes to our ‘sanity’ and mental health.

          I think it’s very interesting what you have said about power and the feeling of being ‘victorious’ over someone else. I feel that there’s something fundamentally important in that ‘feeling’ and whether or not we feel that way.

          Your comment made me think of recent visits to my elderly parents. I have low contact with them because my mother is terminally ill and total ‘no contact’ is something I can’t do for both practical and personal reasons.

          When I do see them, I am very consciously unemotional and careful about what I say and do. I talk about only superficial and casual things and I deliberately either keep quiet or steer the conversation towards benign subjects or health subjects that concern their well-being and I don’t talk about myself if I can help it. It feels like I am deliberately maintaining a kind of quiet ‘supernova’ attitude during my visit and my logic and cognitive thinking is turned up to high while my emotion and compassion is turned down to low. During this time, I can actually feel myself wanting to ‘attach’ to them and I have to consciously stop myself.

          Immediately afterwards, when I am alone again, I feel numb and empty and void of emotion. It’s a strange and foreign feeling. I feel very defended and walled in emotionally. It’s not a good feeling and it actually frightens me because I don’t want it to continue.

          It doesn’t make me feel powerful or victorious at all. It makes me feel sad, empty and despairing. It feels horrible and cold and it makes the world around me look grey and washed out.

          Then I slowly talk myself out of it, saying that it’s just temporary and I am still myself and those feelings of despair and numbness can and will change. Then I do something I enjoy like listen to music, read something interesting, or have something to eat etc. After a while, I start to feel like ‘myself’ again.

          I think that narcissists fundamentally derive a feeling of power instead of despair when they achieve that kind of ‘control’. They feel power and a sense of enjoyment from that. Therefore they feel no need to change and they want to live in that ‘unemotional’ defended state more or less permanently.

          Thank you for your insights WhoCares. It helps me a lot to hear about the experiences of you and others here.

          1. WhoCares says:

            WiserNow,

            It is definitely is a foreign concept to us: this feeling of being victorious because we completely and utterly dominated someone – or were the cause of their suffering. My narcissist used to accuse me of ‘schadenfreude’ – like holy projection Batman!

            I’m sorry to hear that your mother is terminally ill and I can grasp how and why you choose low contact. It is a difficult position to be in.

            It is good to hear that you are hyper-aware and vigilant of your interactions when you’re around her. And it’s interesting to hear your internal experiences of this. But as you describe, it is a very unnatural state of being for you (and empaths in general), it may be a good thing that you keep your interactions to a restricted amount of time?

            I think it is very draining to maintain that level of vigilance for long – as you stated, you cannot even leave your guard down with regard to the type of information you share during those conversations. That kind of control requires energy on our end of the reaction – and then we don’t even get our own ’emotional hit’ that we need from excercising our empathy and compassion. No wonder you feel out of sorts, or as you said: walled in, empty and despairing. Because, of course, we get a “supercharge” out of being compassionate (I bet you would see and feel a huge difference with spending time with an elderly I’ll person who is an empath and would genuinely appreciate the time you spend with them.) We need to know that our efforts are appreciated and while a narcissist may express appreciation: we know that such words or gestures are false and only said to maintain the interaction for their own gain.
            I am glad to hear that you are able ‘to find yourself’ again following those strained interactions.

            Your comment made me reflect further on my own recent thoughts about ‘appropriate’ and ‘inappropriate’ displays of emotion on the part of the Empath – I am not choosing those words to say that there are right/wrong displays of emotion, but there are definitely dangerous times for an empath to display such emotion and ‘safer’ avenues…like in the company of fellow empaths.
            I think we feel unnatural and bereft in our interactions with narcissists especially when implementing low contact because it just isn’t our natural state of being and since we are not hyperfocused on achieving a sense of control – it really doesn’t give us any satisfaction (in the moment) and as you expressed, it can leave us with residual negative stuff (also why HG harps on NC as the way to go, where possible.)

            Although, I have to admit that, personally, I do feel a sense of victory or power over mastery of myself when I get these interactions under control – and I receive evidence of having wounded my narcissist ex by ignoring him – which admittedly causes me to feel an evil little chuckle internally.
            Although I get no satisfaction from the thought of wounding my mother by ignoring her, I don’t like to think of it at all, I simply know that it is necessary.

            However, after the passage of time, and under constraints of always controlling my emotional output – I feel a desert devoid of water – when *do* I get to feel my emotions?
            Eventually, we all need a safe place to feel our emotions – this outlet HG provides us with is wonderful, because alongside we learn too…but it is written form. And just like narcissists get their most potent fuel from proximate contact – and Empath needs to feel or release emotion on a more visceral level. I think it can be channeled into something constructive… emotional energy has power (if not why would narcissists choose us over other types of people?)
            The benefit of being here on Narcsite and learning how to identify and evaluate the nature of our emotional reactions allows to choose (we do have a choice) what we do with them – instead of just frittering them away in service to someone who will never be sated. I find that empowering and a personal victory.
            Thanks for this discussion WiserNow; you and your insights are appreciated.

          2. WiserNow says:

            Thank you for your honest and heartfelt reply WhoCares ❤ It is a real and meaningful pleasure to read your words and understand your meaning.

            Truly empathic understanding takes time and a kind of selfless willingness and in that respect it is a gift, and a gift that has value. So please know that I appreciate your words and thoughts.

            Emotional energy does indeed have power. Empathic emotional energy has positive power. It can lift, or completely change, the mood of a person or a group, and it can bring hope and motivation to people in dire situations who feel hopeless or helpless. Compassionate people are game-changers and storehouses of creativity and hope.

            Like you, I also feel a personal sense of victory when I have mastered my own emotions or instinctive reactions. This is easier to do – and offers more self-satisfaction – when it comes to strangers or those I am not very close to. The more I read and learn and understand myself, the better it feels to relate and understand all kinds of people. That’s a good feeling. Thank you for reminding me of that.

            When it comes to close family members, it is more tricky though.

            I feel the irony of my mother’s illness right now. My mother has *always* portrayed herself as a victim, no matter what, even when she was healthy and had a good life (both emotionally and materially). Now, with her illness, she actually *is* a victim of fate or circumstance that is beyond her control. The irony is that she actually did have my real and genuine instinctive compassion and concern for most of my life when she was well, while I didn’t have awareness about her narcissism. Now the tables have turned. She is *really* a victim now, yet my awareness has put a stop to my instinctive compassion. It feels like a cruel dilemma. I feel a sense of guilt or loss for not being able to show her my genuine compassion, while also knowing that I need to protect myself from her manipulative ways.

            And then I remember that narcissists don’t care about the ramifications of their behaviour on others. There’s little *real* motherly concern for me as an individual, only feigned concern. I need to keep remembering that. Reminding myself of that helps to stem the ’emotional thinking’ of guilt and loss. The ideals of having a genuinely loving family are simply a wish or fantasy that’s in my own head.

            Thank you WhoCares for your comments and thoughts. We are strangers, however, you have helped me greatly with your patience and understanding. You have helped me to think more clearly and to get a better grasp of my own thoughts and emotions. That is a gift, so thank you xx

          3. WhoCares says:

            WiserNow,

            I appreciate this conversation (and others with you in the past) and I understand the irony you describe regarding exercising compassion – with restrictions – towards your mother.
            But I think that it was past conversations with you that helped me grasp that when we withdraw our empathy to protect ourselves that narcissists are not “hurt” in the same way that we are (although narcs will express that they are hurt in order to draw us back in). It is simply us projecting our worldview on to them; if someone did similar to us, *we* would feel hurt – therefore they must be hurt too. However, they do not feel ‘stabbed in the heart’ etc., by our actions – we’re as good as any, or the next appliance… it’s just the biological ties that give them a reason to ‘pull our chain’ (and guilt is a big factor in this). Society plays a part in reinforcing this sense of guilt – especially when it comes to parents or the elderly – if we allow it to. Well, society doesn’t have all the facts, does it?
            When I went NC with my mother it was hard, it took a bit of time and being subjected to some truly abusive phone calls (she was in a fuel crisis). But I was still reeling from the fallout of my relationship with my ex, and wouldn’t accept her abuse, so I directed her to counseling and mental health crisis services. Anyway, that eventually passed and she was able to reorient herself, move on and make new friends etc.(because she does have the social skills and mindset to do that) – it was not the end of the world for her but she certainly wanted to play on that to keep me looped in.
            Her health is not the best (mostly due to abusing her body with significant alcohol and prescription drug usage), so there is a chance I could find myself myself in your situation.
            It’s admirable that you are doing your best to both be there for her and protect your own well-being. The irony that you identify – and guilt you feel over it – strikes you because of your level of awareness.

            I hope you feel comforted by the fact that you’re doing your duty as a daughter while at the same time protecting yourself. And whatever kind of guilt you feel over not giving your compassion freely now should be assuaged by the fact that even if you still gave of your empathy without restraint it would never be *genuinely* appreciated by your mother.
            You’re in my thoughts WiserNow ❤️

          4. WiserNow says:

            Thank you WhoCares, for your understanding and kindness. You know this situation only too well yourself, seeing that you are NC with your mother. While I commiserate with you, I can see you have very close and personal knowledge about what it’s like. I’m sorry you have gone through that too.

            To answer your question, no, society doesn’t have all the facts about parents or the elderly. ‘Motherhood’ in general is placed on a pedestal as though all mothers are the same and they aren’t, just like all kinds of members of certain ‘occupations’ (for want of a better word) aren’t the same. At least with most occupations, those who practice them need some kind of qualification or prerequisite.

            Motherhood needs no qualification, no minimum criteria, and no emotional intelligence testing, etc. Any woman of the right biological age can pop out a new human being. That new baby is completely dependent on either her or another caregiver, and the baby’s nervous system and emotional development will forever be shaped by that initial formative attachment.

            It’s true that I keep projecting my own worldview on those around me. What I’m failing to recognise enough (although I’m slowly learning, but at a slooooow pace 🙄) is that I’m merely an ‘appliance’ to some people, including my mother. This is a difficult concept to fully grasp, because I see others as individual people with their own personalities and motivations.

            It’s also becoming more and more apparent to me that many people see an empathic (or seemingly more vulnerable) person and immediately view them as being weak, or passive, or easier to control. In this, they are projecting ‘their’ worldview and dumping all of their own unwanted negative emotions (or actions, irritations, weaknesses, etc) onto the empathic/vulnerable person because they get that sense of control or fuel from doing that.

            Thank you again for your time and patience and your wise and caring thoughts WhoCares. And by the way, it’s evident to me that *you* care, and please know that you are much appreciated. You have helped me to understand my own situation better through your caring replies. I wish you all the best with your own awareness and your own relationships, including the one you have with your mother.

            You are in my thoughts too WhoCares❤️😊

          5. WhoCares says:

            Sorry WiserNow; wow, I did not really check for typos in my longer reply to this!

          6. WiserNow says:

            WhoCares, I didn’t even notice! Your message was much more important to me and that was flawless 🙂

          7. WhoCares says:

            WiserNow,

            I am just checking in to see how you are doing.
            I don’t think you get notifications so if you see this, know that I am thinking of you and hope that you are well.💝

          8. WiserNow says:

            Hello WhoCares,

            Thank you for your kind message. I am doing well thank you. I hope you’re well too. This pandemic is certainly an unusual experience to go through. I hope you and your son are staying safe and taking care of yourselves.

            I have taken a little break from commenting here on narcsite. I still occasionally visit and read the articles and comments, however, not as often as I used to. I think everyone’s process of “self-knowledge” is unique and certain information at certain times is very helpful, while at other stages, it may not be so helpful. I think everyone goes through their own ‘evolution’ of inner change and understanding. I am very grateful for discovering HG and his information and also grateful for everyone I communicated with here in the last few years.

            Lately, I have been reading a lot of different things related to attachment, relationships, attunement and self-knowledge. It is all related to psychology and, in particular, various theories and recent research about psychology and also neurology. I find the subject very interesting and also enlightening, especially in relation to my own emotions and behaviours.

            Thank you again WhoCares for your message and for taking the time to check in with me. That is a lovely thing to do and I appreciate it. All the best to you. I hope you continue to keep learning and keep improving too. I also hope we all make it out of this pandemic in good health and with renewed knowledge and hope for the future. 💖😘

          9. WhoCares says:

            WiserNow,

            Glad you stopped in to share how you are doing. My son and I are good, thanks.

            I certainly understand about having to take a break from commenting here at times. (Although I have greatly appreciated the blog for it’s learning and more – especially during Covid-19).

            Good to hear of your current area of research and reading in furthering your self-knowledge. A definite area of personal interest for me too.

            All the best to you as well. And have fun with your further pursuits! Take care & stay healthy WiserNow 💙

          10. WiserNow says:

            Thank you WhoCares. I hope the same for you too. Thank you also for your understanding, maturity and kindness. The more I read and learn, the more I realise that those qualities are rare and wonderful😘

          11. WhoCares says:

            WiserNow – 😘

      2. Kristin says:

        WiserNow,
        I was thinking about you and haven’t seen you around in a while. Hope you are doing well 🤗

        1. WiserNow says:

          Hi Kristin,

          Thank you for your message💖 You are a kind and generous soul! I am well thank you. How are you? How is your home situation going? I hope you have been well and continue to grow stronger in knowledge and understanding.

          I have been away from narcsite for a few months, although I occasionally visit and read the articles and comments. I have been adding to my reading list with various other books and articles, so I have limited time to comment here. It helps though, to be in lockdown when it comes to having extra time to read.

          How have you and your family been finding lockdown during this very unusual time? I hope you are safe and able to cope with the way things are.

          In a strange way, self-isolation isn’t such a bad thing when you’re an empathic person. At least, that’s how I feel most of the time. It’s like a blissful period of silence and no contact. As long as I have interesting things to do to keep myself occupied, and enough food in the house to keep meals interesting too, (and enough toilet paper!😄) I can exist like this very happily. 😉

          How are you finding things at the moment? Are you able to get some “me” time so that you can build up your inner resources? Are you planning to make changes to your home-life? If so, how is that going? I hope it’s all progressing well and you feel stronger as you go.

          Thank you again for your message Kristin and for checking in. That’s lovely of you. I hope you’re doing well too. I have you in my thoughts, as I do others here on narcsite too. All the best to you and best wishes for your future plans💖😘

          1. Kristin says:

            WhoCares,
            It is good to hear from you! I am glad you are finding time to take care of you and reading till your heart’s content. I agree, self-isolation has been nice because it has simplified life, among other things. It is nice to see that you are at peace and enjoying the blissful silence and no contact. 🤗 I too could live like this for quite a while.

            Things aren’t much different here since we work from home. I spend most of each day working outside moving rocks, cutting down bushes/trees and went hiking. I am loving every minute of it because it makes me happy and gives me a respite, I have to force myself to go in every night!

            I am on the site every day and am still learning so much. I am moving forward, bit by bit, day by day and continue to consult with HG. I am light years from where I was in November and I remind myself of that when things become challenging, (ET.) I have to say that I have not forgotten the encouraging support and hope that you (among many) have provided me. I know you are not here as much but I wanted to let you know that. 💜

            Keep taking care of yourself and check in when you get a chance! 🥰

          2. WiserNow says:

            Hi Kristin,

            It’s good to hear from you too! Thank you very much for your messages and kind words. I’m glad to hear that you’re moving forward and that you are light years ahead from where you were last year.

            One consolation about going through all this is that once you know and become aware, you can’t go back. You can’t ‘unsee’ what your eyes can see more clearly now. So, even though it’s very difficult at times and your ET will be high, if you keep learning from HG and keep getting stronger within yourself, the manipulations and mind-games won’t have the same effect and you’ll be able to see through them more easily and you will also be able to recover more easily from the effects.

            Another thing I’ve learned over time is that the progress isn’t like a straight line going upwards (like on a graph or projection). It’s a squiggly line that can go up one day and then down for a week and then up for another week and so on. It’s unpredictable and that is also something that happens because of ET and the way our experiences affect us. Over time though, there will be a general upward trend in the line. So, please allow that future trend to inspire you and give you the energy to keep going. You have done very well over a short time and your progress will continue even if some days it doesn’t feel like it or you feel that it’s all too hard. It will get easier for you.

            It’s good that you have the time to be alone outside to work or hike in nature. If being in nature makes you feel happy, that sounds like a very “empath” characteristic🌳👌 Being outside surrounded by trees and fresh air and sunshine is like a tonic that ‘cleans’ and boosts our energy and feels very positive and grounding. Being with animals and pets does that too. I read somewhere that real and ‘natural’ beings like that have a positive effect on our sense of ‘self’ or the emotional part of our brains. It has something to do with connecting to another life-form in an instinctive and unconscious emotional way. Anyway, there is a technical reason for it, but the important thing is that it feels very ‘real’ and energising. It’s great that you’re able to do that because it will help you feel better and make progress.

            Thanks again for your messages Kristin. You are in my thoughts and I will keep my fingers crossed for you. Please keep remembering that empathic people make the world a kinder and more beautiful and peaceful place, so when things are getting difficult, think of that and don’t let anyone take your shine✨

            Best wishes to you Kristin. Stay safe and take care of yourself 😘

          3. Kim e says:

            WiserNow
            “It’s a squiggly line that can go up one day and then down for a week and then up for another week and so on. It’s unpredictable and that is also something that happens because of ET and the way our experiences…”

            This is so hard for me to reconcile with. I am in a great mood thinking I got this and then WHAM…ET slaps me upside the head and I think I have made no progress. I know I have but it is the little backwards steps that mess with my mind. Nice to read that it is not just me. That it is part of the process.
            Thank you

          4. WiserNow says:

            Thank you Kim e. It’s not just you who thinks like that. It happens to me all the time and I get frustrated because I think the ET is going down and then something will happen and it goes back up again and I feel like it will never go away. The progress is very slow sometimes.

            I have learned to accept it and let it happen and run its course without getting too frustrated. In the back of my mind I ‘know’ that it’s emotional thinking and that I have to be patient with myself. At those times, I try to also be aware that I need to stick to certain ‘rules’, such as ‘no contact’, positive thinking, self-compassion, and distracting myself by doing something different. These things help to reduce the “messing with my mind” that you have mentioned.

            In general, I think it’s a case of constant inner ‘self-soothing’, so that the ET stays under control.

            Thanks for your message Kim e and best wishes to you 😘

          5. Kristin says:

            WiserNow,
            I appreciate your heartfelt response. 🤗 You are correct, you can’t “unsee” once you know and that is not a bad thing. I have to say that now I feel free for the first time in almost 30 years, it is such a gift. I know who I’m dealing with and why he behaves the way he does so the confusion is gone and it like a weight has been lifted from my shoulders.

            I didn’t realize how much I needed to hear your thoughts regarding the progress we make over time, thank you! I have seen it first hand in myself but to be reminded that it can be up and down and unpredictable has helped me greatly. Your experience and hindsight are so valuable to me and others. I will be rereading what you posted as I move forward, especially on days when feel stuck.

            “I read somewhere that real and ‘natural’ beings like that have a positive effect on our sense of ‘self’ or the emotional part of our brains. It has something to do with connecting to another life-form in an instinctive and unconscious emotional way.” That resonated with me and explained so very much. I can’t express how much you have helped me at this time, you are awesome.

            I will look for you on the blog and hope you continue to enjoy your solitude and reading time! Blessings to you my dear and take care of yourself. 😘

          6. WiserNow says:

            Thank you Kristin. Blessings to you too and thank you for your lovely message. I appreciate your kind words. I hope you continue to get stronger and stronger. I can tell by your message that you already sound stronger and even more determined. You already have the strength you need. It’s there, and once you tap into that even more completely, you will be unstoppable❤️

            I think it’s important to keep learning and keep thinking about your own thinking. There is a term called “meta-cognition” that I came across recently. If, like me, you are new to the meaning of it, it means ‘to think about your own thinking’. In other words, it’s like the cognition that lies over (meta) your regular cognition.

            I believe we already do this without being aware of doing it. We remember our experiences and we reconsider our thoughts about those experiences. Then, we evaluate or change our own thoughts and actions in relation to those experiences. In the case of empaths, I think it’s important to keep questioning our own thoughts and evaluating our own reactions. It helps to keep things logical and to remember the actions and words of others. If we know who we are dealing with, we can be more deliberate with our responses and reactions.

            Thank you again Kristin. I will continue to check in on narcsite and keep learning myself. It’s lovely to have met you here and to have had our conversations. I admire your strength and perseverence through everything you have experienced. When you think about it, you have lived this for 30 years or more, so it’s understandable that transforming all your thoughts and reactions will take some time. To “undo” your instinctive thinking that took that long to reach this point is not going to be quick or easy. Please keep remembering though, that you can and will do it.

            Best wishes to you Kristin and good luck to you! Keep seizing the power!❤️😘

          7. Kristin says:

            I’m so sorry WiserNow, I think I’ve had a stroke! 😂 you know I meant you 🥰

          8. WiserNow says:

            That’s ok Kristin😂 I knew you meant me 😉❤

  2. Leigh says:

    Sometimes the comments help me more than the article itself. This article hit hard. Reading everyone’s comments has made it easier. Thank you everyone!

  3. Pati says:

    HG,
    Thats the way the cookie crumbles. Is that right?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Brittle biscuit Pati.

      1. Lorelei says:

        I bought some breakfast biscuits. Whole grain in fact.

        1. Pati says:

          Sounds yummy! Enjoy

      2. Pati says:

        Yes HG, and cracking a cracker too.

  4. lisk says:

    During “these challenging times,” I have asked myself “What if I were still with Narcx in this situation?”

    He would be playing the hero, making sure I witnessed him planning everything for us, demonstrating that he is a great caretaker both at work and at home, and just plain be overbearing and not so smart with some of his supposed solutions.

    I would only be permitted to participate in operations only as far as he had planned for it, e.g., he’ll design and build the ideal quarantine Quonset hut and ask me to hold one single nail in place to help.

    Of course this would be a total set-up for the inevitable “AFTER ALL I DID FOR US???” shout-down should I happen to make an inadvertent criticism or complaint. And then the caregiving would fall apart and I’d be left to fend for myself until I apologized for my rudeness.

    In short, I see that being Narc-free is far better for my immune system.

    Self-Care basically equals By-Myself-Care “in these challenging times” and that is fine by me!

    1. Witch says:

      With the 2 ex narcs..
      The upper lesser will feel superior that he has always been washing his hands and therefore will make some boastful comment that he is unlikely to get it. He would also make a boarding on racist comment about Chinese people and how they need to get it together and stop eating weird shit and be more like the white man.

      The mid midranger would start crying over the fact that his parents are elderly and pretend to care if they caught the virus and died. He would throw himself on the bed sobbing and acting all the depressed so that I run around after him trying to make him feel better. Then he would abandoned me suddenly and take off to Israel, go on a date with a Jewish woman then blame it on the coronavirus by saying that he wanted to fullfil his parents wishes before they died by considering marrying a Jewish woman, and that I should be more understanding during this difficult time

      1. Violetta says:

        The irony of the whole ChinaPhobia thing is when I got flu in NY (which happened every year until I finally started getting the vaccine), I generally lived on takeout soup, alternating hot-n-sour, wonton, and egg drop for all three meals until I had drowned it away. (Had one of those crappy dorm fridges in my first apt., so I couldn’t make a vat in advance and freeze in small containers until needed.)

        A drop of Chinese mustard in it was good for clearing out sinuses.

        1. Witch says:

          @violetta

          The UL was very ignorant about other cultures. He hadn’t even been out the country. The most “exotic” place he has been to is Norwich.
          Towards the end of the relationship when I was hoping that he would die to save me the guilt of “abandoning him”, he made ignorant comments about India even though he never made it passed a butter chicken curry.
          I feel sorry for his mum because she seemed like a nice person. Imagine having a son that is just over 5 foot and ugly! looking like he has more than the 1% of Neanderthal DNA that all non-African people have AND he’s a narc!
          Sorry I dealt with him for 9 years so let me be a temporary narcissist as I get that off my chest.

      2. WhoCares says:

        Re: the MMRN scenario. Omg.
        Haha!

        1. Witch says:

          @whocares
          They are a slow burning hell but they do inspire the funniest material

          1. WhoCares says:

            Witch, if the repercussions weren’t so detrimental, their manipulations would be entertaining all. the. damn. time.

          2. Witch says:

            Yep!
            I was only with this one for 5months before it all went to shit (I get devalued quite quickly)
            But I always thought that if I stayed with him longer than that I would have killed myself. His outbursts didn’t appear intelligent but following his outbursts he would write so beautifully. He was such a good writer, he sometimes wrote better than HG! sheesh
            He could make you smile, make you laugh, make you cry, in one paragraph.
            So in a way he was worse than the upper lesser. At least with the UL it was clear on most issues where you stood with him.
            A MMR and I also imagine an UMR can make you feel like you’re loosing your damn mind.

          3. WhoCares says:

            Good that you got out relatively quickly Witch.

            “A MMR and I also imagine an UMR can make you feel like you’re loosing your damn mind.”

            Even a LMRN, paired with the right Empath, can cause her to have a slow mental meltdown.

  5. Charlene says:

    Mine is out doing his usual ignorant behavior w the virus around likely exposing me – making excuses Thad I’m paranoid yet everything is closed and all Norma people are home being safe. He said he bring home the virus and give it to me – nice mid ranger!!!

    1. HG Tudor says:

      He will threaten to bring home the virus to infect you and then when that happens, he will of course blame you for bringing it home and infecting him.

      1. Charlene says:

        Right! Lose lose situation.

  6. Pingback: Watching You Crumble ⋆ NarcTopia
  7. Violetta says:

    I’ll be waving my hand
    Watching you drown
    Watching you scream
    No one’s around

    “Clumsy” – Our Lady Peace

  8. Sunshine says:

    I gotta quit reading these.
    They make me hurt more.

    1. Kristin says:

      Sunshine,
      I totally agree. It is a double edged sword, we read so that we understand narcissism but sometimes it hits too close to home. I suspect my ET is high right now but when I read posts like this one, I have a negative, physical reaction and sometimes they bring tears to my eyes.

      1. Violetta says:

        For me, it’s been like a vaccine. I might get a mini-version of the disease, but it increases my immunity to the full-blown systemic form.

        The first time I listened to “Crazy,” I kept shaking my head and laughing. I was The Hyper Kid, and my teachers (prepared by a shrink who was careful to conceal my parents’ situation–no mandatory reporting in those days, and I suppose he needed those checks to put his own kids through college), did everything they could to increase the bullying where it existed and instigate it where it didn’t. I must have heard this speech or some variant of it more times than I could count. It was a positive relief to find out this was a thing, and not just my weird experience. I’d heard of gaslighting, but hiding a brooch or two and having the lights flicker ain’t nuthin’ compared to people who Just Want To Help You.

        1. Kristin says:

          Violetta,
          Great analogy and so true! Thank you 😊

      2. Sunshine says:

        Thanks for your reply, Kristin.
        You perfectly described my feelings & “symptoms.” I’m sorry you have to go through this, too.

        1. Kristin says:

          Sunshine,
          It is a necessary evil, no pun intended, to read about narcissistic behavior in order to protect ourselves and learn as much as we can. I find it quite painful but my hope is that we will become stronger and more callous to the sick behaviors of narcs. HG has provided horrific scenarios and it has pulled my blinders right off. I am doing my best to trust the knowledge and support he provides especially when my ET is stronger than I am. I suppose it is tough love that we impose on ourselves. Hang in there my dear, I completely understand.

          1. Lorelei says:

            Kristin–it is not only a necessary evil to write about narcissism by saying what these people do. I’ll never ever forget a woman, so broken.. She discussed how her father slept with her sisters and would not touch her and how she felt “less than” even though she knew to “desire” this attention was not right from the perspective of society. He was triangulating basically. I’ve never forgotten her. Some may find such a story disgusting or look at her as deranged perhaps.
            Some may find discussions of my dad killing a family pet and blaming me for the need for it as hard to digest, some may find details associated with being held down and raped by two men as hard to hear. Some may find hearing HG not buying a gift for a girlfriend or tripping a woman on a track hard to hear. He stated today he’s never held back his behaviors and he absolutely needs to discuss them. I need to hear him say we are appliances, that we are merely microwaves that break down. Said any other way is not as effective. Additionally, a platform for hearing stories with uncomfortable details is healing for the person writing, and it is healing for people who carry shame due to what happened to them. You know what–if that woman were here and she wanted to talk about feeling less than because she was never given opportunity to have sex with her father then so be it. If someone needs to discuss sexual acts that they enjoy that only narcissists will lure them into, then so be it. HG told me once that there are behaviors many of us think we enjoy and they are really rooted into the addiction to the narcissist. It is very true. I thought I could have a casual relationship–absolutely not. Some people absolutely can. Hard pill to swallow. If he wasn’t a narcissist my toxic behavior was the lure. There is a pharmacist at work that is just starting to be flirty–he’s way smart and cute. (younger) I thought good lord he must be one too. It’s working is why I mention this, I recognize a flavor of attraction (at least) and know I “can’t go there”—he may be a nice guy, but I’m obviously having moments of improvement even in this season of high ET. I know that I would never date a man that young. He may be nice but what am I going to do with a man under the age of 35 that probably wants a family someday. I doubt he realizes my age IN CASE he is a normal. So, it would be casual, I can’t do it. Don’t touch it. Don’t—its toxic because it is illogical. I can’t discuss or process this crap anywhere but here, the readers are much richer here in depth and the platform sublimely managed. HG said that less than 1% of readers comment, I am glad we have the opportunity to do so because much of the growth that has been achieved has been through interactions, invaluable. So, in summary, much of the content is a necessary evil but I want to encourage and promote a tasteful discussion of matters that may be uncomfortable. By talking about uncomfortable things it can “free” someone else’s shame over matters that were absolutely not of their choosing. Also, I can truly say that by HG giving examples of his own behaviors.. He has given the tool already of me being able to say, “Fuck that.” Irrefutable that I will tolerate poor behaviors in the future. I just thought it was the way it was supposed to be based on how I grew up. If HG wouldn’t let me finish some pudding (I won’t mention the pudding again HG) he would be tossed out in the street. I recall some chocolate I was eating and my ex gave looks of disdain. First weird behavior that I recall because I was physically in excellent shape. If some dumb fuck did that today—OMG. The fuel they would get would have them thinking I’m a crazy person. I’d have marched that prick out the door and it would be a demonstration of growth. I detest narcissists and they need detested because they are deplorable if you get too close. It expands even further, I also find the type of normal that is easily swayed by smear campaigns to be disgusting in their own right. Empaths that treat me poorly can fuck off too.

          2. Kim e says:

            Lorelei
            WOW just WOW. Beautifully said. Especially the part about being able to come here and talk about anything.
            It is hard to be out here by ourselves

          3. Lorelei says:

            Thank you Kim. Frankly, understanding that some behaviors appear quite odd to me & that they may be based on a person’s addiction is helpful. I’ve often been curious why someone would look the way they do, from say, meth use and picking at their skin. Well I looked deplorable as well, dead sad eyes and gained weight. I should hang one particularly pathetic photo on my fridge frankly. It is almost symbolic. It was a birthday celebration for my daughter and I looked horrible. I am not one ounce better than the skin infected drug addict. I also believe that some in my professional circle may be remotely baffled why I’ve been married twice. Seems a bit odd. Normals don’t overly think but just the same.. Curiosity is still perhaps present at times. I seem pretty normal to a normal so I assume there has been some shrugging off of wonder at times. (I do not talk openly in my world how I do here—promise!)
            I do hope that someone reading this may see that some behaviors or things they “enjoy” may indeed be the addiction finding an outlet—this was huge for me. Huge. I have loads of judgmental thoughts at times, very guilty. But this has helped.

          4. Kristin says:

            Lorelei,
            You explained it so well, as always. I come from a long line of alcoholics and was always grateful that the “addiction gene” passed me by. Now I know that is not the case, my addiction is just not as apparent. Knowing that I am an empath and all that entails, I will forever be fighting my draw to toxic behavior and narcs. The difference is I now have the tools to get a handle on my weaknesses and protect myself in the future. I have said this before, but this site and HG are such a saving grace. The fact that I can express myself, talk about, and reveal things that my closest friends do not know, has kept me going.

          5. Lorelei says:

            Agree agree..

          6. Kristin says:

            I meant to say I’m drawn to narcs and their toxic behaviors…

          7. Sunshine says:

            I’m really glad I wrote that OP because the replies have helped me hate myself a little less.
            I’m only about 6 weeks out from disengagement/discard/ far back bottom shelving (maybe). I’m surprised that I’m still reeling from it, yet I can kinda understand why.

            I’m pretty sure he never had the desire for the perfect relationship with me. In fact, I’m fairly certain he hated me the whole time. He ensnared me just to amuse himself.
            The “golden” period was really just a “crumpled gum wrapper” period. I wanted a fairytale so badly that I ignored the red flags, banners & skywriting.
            I feel so stupid, irrational and angry with myself for compromising my values & being so selfish.
            That being said, I do feel a little less “koo-koo-for-cocoa-puffs” after reading these replies.
            Thank yall for opening up & sharing your experiences.

          8. Kim e says:

            Hello Sunshine,
            After reading your reply I think it would be a very good idea for you to do a consult with HG to understand exactly what happened and where you stand. 6 weeks out is a drop in the ocean in terms or disengagement.silent treatment with a N.
            And also so that you understand that the “perfect” relationship with you was never going to be.
            Read read read……..

          9. Ashley says:

            Sunshine,
            Awwww don’t feel stupid!!! 💖💖💖 You have just started, be patient with yourself! It took me seven months to learn the things I needed to learn & accept. Today is exactly to the day seven months since I was disengaged from & I JUST learned the last thing I needed to learn last week. I’d consider myself fully over it now, it takes time. Sending you love💖💖💖

          10. Kristin says:

            Sunshine,
            You are not to blame, you became entangled with a narc and recovery takes time. I am 5 months into realizing my husband of many years was a narc and I learn something every day. I thought I would be farther along in the process by now, but I am giving myself time and trusting HG and the knowledge and guidance on this site. With that being said, I have come a long way in that time and you will do the same.

            It is heart wrenching for sure but try to give yourself a break and take care of you 💝

          11. Kristin says:

            Lorelei,
            I completely agree with you and the more stories we hear, the more knowledgeable we become. Like I said, my ET is high right now so I am more likely to have an adverse reaction when I read troubling scenarios. Sometimes it is a relief as it validates what I experience with the narc on a daily basis but there are also times when it exacerbates my already raw emotions.

            It sounds as if you have come a long way and that is very encouraging. It gives those of us in the early stages of learning, discovering and healing, hope. You are forthright in your views and I find that it helps me come to grips with not only my situation but narcs in general.

          12. Lorelei says:

            Thanks Kristin—I’m much better than I was but struggling quite a bit. I kinda wanted an “end date” where suddenly all would be well and that I’d go from bad to good more suddenly. I’m less exhausted by the process than say 2-3 months ago. I’m not feeling quite as “idiotic” for repeatedly being ensnared. (Mainly due to my interactions here—there are many bright people here.) Also—if we/I were so useless why do these vampires feed off of us? I’d say there is a utility that can be channeled that is better than feeding vampires. And they are pathetic. Truly. Think of how useless a whiny mid-ranger is, how pathetic is a victim narcissist or a borderline narc laying on a floor pretending to have a seizure? I mean seriously!! That is where pathetic is. My goals include to look back less (unless there is some value for others)—be less of a target, and never speak to my children’s father again. You are still living with your husband. I promise that if you heed true no contact quicker you’ll fare far better more quickly. 100 excuses will burden you but I promise you’ll improve faster with zero contact. Discuss how with HG please.

          13. Kristin says:

            Lorelei,
            I understand wanting an end date! Does it even exist, I hope so. I’m glad you are doing better, it is a difficult process but I’m preaching to the choir. Stick with your goals, your strength inspires me.

            I know GOSO is the only way to find peace and I have another consult scheduled. There is no point in me bemoaning my situation as nothing will change until I leave. I’m am saving money, planning and trying to figure out what is best for my kids. Blah, blah, blah….most see as excuses but I know where I need to be in order to survive the divorce. ET is still high but I am working through it. I swear, some days I feel like such a mental case but even you have your days after all you’ve been through. Thank you for your support Lorelei. 😚

          14. Lorelei says:

            I understand. Money is an important matter to have in order, but ET will influence the “impossible”
            feeling if it indeed ever feels that way.

          15. Kristin says:

            You are so right! Although ET is so much a part of being an empath, it sucks. I didn’t even know what it was before I found this site but I am forever changed and very grateful. I am working on it every day and will not give up. How could I with all that I have learned, there is no going back. I keep reminding myself of that when I am struggling.

          16. Lorelei says:

            Oops to clarity—your ET may make you think engaging is essential due to finances or the business. I promise that any communication will keep you sick longer. Find a 3rd party. Be impossible and prep for the smear of being “ridiculous..” It’s a package deal—zero
            Communication is essential.

    2. The best medicine tastes the worst -HG Tudor
      Keep reading, it gets easier.

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