Let’s Talk About Ex, Baby
When you entangle with our kind in a romantic dynamic it is very rare indeed if you do not find yourself hearing about our ex. Whether it is the ex-wife, the ex-boyfriend or the ex-partner, the subject of the ex is one which will appear with considerable frequency. Indeed, you may not even meet this person but you will feel that you know them almost as well as you know yourself, the amount of time we spend talking about them to you.
At the outset of your ensnarement, it is highly likely that we were already in a romantic relationship with somebody. You may not initially be told about them, we may reference them because we utilise their existence as a magnifying factor to increase our opportunity to draw fuel from you and to bind you to us. It might be that their existence is referred to once you are ensnared, when we instinctively realise that you will not back away or we may refer to them almost as an afterthought when we have dis -engaged from them and made you the Intimate Partner Primary Source.
Whether we tell you the truth that we are married or we keep the existence of a significant other until afterwards and then we fudge precisely when we broke up with them, it is not a matter we consider as especially relevant. What matters to us is that we will keep telling you about them.
During your golden period, be it when we have targeted and seduced you or when we have embedded you, the ex will be painted well and truly black. We will tell you how this person is a truly terrible person. The immediate ex (or he or she who is about to become the ex) is the person spoken about the most, but other exes may well make an appearance too, especially if we want to portray ourselves as a super hero for enduring them or poor done to martyr. The ex or exes will attract one (or more) of the following labels:-
- Crazy Bitch – she is wild, unpredictable and clearly cuckoo for coco pops. We tried to help, to be understanding and make them see that there was something wrong with them, but despite our best endeavours she just could not see it. She had no insight and whatever we did was thrown back in our faces;
- Controlling Ogre; – he never let us do anything. Always checking where we were, who we were with, what we had been doing, we felt like an tracking device had been placed on us and everything we wanted to do was a battle beforehand;
- Addict – whether it was drink, benzos, weed, expensive shopping habits, gambling, junk food, it did not matter, this person had a terrible addiction which of course we tried to help them with but they would not be helped;
- Jealous Lunatic – he was always accusing us of having affairs, seeing other men, flirting and being obsessed with the attention of others;
- A Narcissist – the ex was definitely one of these (we might have read about it and it sounds good or the ex actually called us one so we threw it back in their face) and this meant he or she was an awful person to us, oh the stories we could tell you about this terrible condition and indeed we will;
- Violent Abuser – he or she would attack me, I had to call the police so many times to deal with them, a passer by once had to rescue me after he started to punch me in the street, I am a big fellow so I can handle myself but it was still unpleasant to have someone you love kick you in the balls
- Obsessed – she just would not give me any space to myself and even now, even though I have told her that it is over, she will not leave me alone, I don’t mean to frighten you but she is probably stalking me at the moment, she just cannot seem to accept that it is at an end
- Criminal – he was up to all manner of criminal enterprises, stealing cars, selling drugs, burglary, it was just too much. I don’t know why he did all of this when I was earning enough money for the two of us but he just kept going and in the end it was too much when he tried to get me involved;
- Addams Family – she was just odd. Her family had to be with us all the time. We moved in with them to save rent but then when we finally got somewhere of our own, every time I got in from work some member of her extended family would be there and it was like there was always at least three of us in the relationship and well, I am sure they were just a bit too loving and close if you know what I mean.
There are plenty more of labels which I am sure you can add. The fact is however that you will find we will talk about this person with daily regularity, treating you to the latest anecdote about this person’s aberrations and anomalous behaviours. You receive a forensic examination of what this person said and did as we recall it all in such detail that you can see it all in your mind.
This harping on about the ex of course is done for several purposes:-
- Drawing sympathy from you over how we have been treated;
- Appealing to your empathic traits to soothe us, help us and love us after this awful experience;
- Appealing to your desire to outdo your previous competitor by showing you are a far better partner than that person and thus in turn we gain more benefits from your increased desire;
- Making us look like a good person to have tried to help the ex;
- Making us look like a decent person to have persevered;
- To cause you to dislike the ex so that you will respond in a hostile manner should your paths cross with them;
- To ensure the ex has no credibility if they attempt to go down the route of trying to warn you about us;
- To create a ready excuse for any poor behaviour we might exhibit should the mask slip (“I am sorry, it is clear I am traumatised after how Kate treated me.”)
- To draw fuel from you in terms of your sympathy, your anger, your hatred of what that person has apparently done to us;
- To support the smearing which we will have done as we prepared to dis-engage from that previous IPPS.
At first you will be pleased to hear about these daily bulletins briefing against your former competitor as this will serve to quash any fears you may have that we might go back to them or that we might succumb to an approach by that person to win us back. The more you hear us pour scorn on them, the happier you feel and the more secure you become. We will talk about them as we secure your allegiance to us, always reminding you of this spectre that promises to be the ghost at the feast.
Once you have been embedded then often we will then cease to talk about them because we have effectively deleted them from our mind as a consequence of the embedded golden period we are now enjoying with you. However, if there is reason for them to keep appearing in our sphere of influence (the ex keeps contacting us to understand why we dis-engaged from them, to sort out the return of property, to attend to child contact arrangements, to address matters appertaining to a divorce) then we will keep mentioning them. We will have no interest in engaging with this individual because we want to consign them to history but if they keep appearing then we will keep mentioning them for the purposes of drawing further fuel from you, by referring to the She-Devil or the Ogre.
Accordingly, the daily bulletins, smears, insults and so forth about the ex will follow this pattern:-
- Extensive mention as we start our seduction with you as the soon to be ex enters the final stages of devaluation;
- Continued mention once you are embedded if the ex appears in our sphere of influence;
- Mention effectively halts once ex stays out of way and the Embedded Golden Period commences.
Reaching point three however means you will have experienced plenty of discussion and observation about the ex as everything has been picked over in minute details. If there was a word cloud for this period of time between you and us, ‘you’ and the ‘ex’ would rival one another for primacy.
Yet this frequent mention of the ex is not yet over.
Once your devaluation as IPPS begins then the ex (or other exes) will start to be mentioned (or mentioned again) but of course all of the slurs, smears and insults will have been wiped away at this point because now the ex (or exes) will be seen in a ‘white’ light compared to your position in a ‘black’ light. Accordingly, you will be compared and contrasted to this ex on a daily basis and in the following ways as they are referred to in some or more of the following ways:-
- The Only One – she was the only one who truly understood us and how we want her back;
- The Super Sex God – he was dynamite between the sheets and you long for that excitement once again, compared to the damp squib we are now with;
- Mum of the Year – she is so good with the children, far better than you Wicked Step Mother (of course the children may well back this up either because they truly think it (hardly a revelation) or they have been manipulated to think this way by us);
- Domestic Goddess – she had this place shining and tidy, great dinners on the table and always looked great. Look at you, you are a mess, you cannot cook and this house is a tip. What have I done?
- Cash King – boy he worked hard, brought in good money and looked after me. What do you do? Nothing or you have a poorly paid job (compared to him).
- The Saint – she would never have treated me like this, you conned me into going with you and luring me away from such a wonderful woman, I hate you for it.
- Clean Living – he looks after his body, eats properly, doesn’t drink much and look at the way you go on, eating junk and smoking (you ate one burger in the last six months and smoke maybe two cigarettes a day – but it does not matter because split thinking has manifested once again)
Again, there will be many more labels for the person who once was the Devil Incarnate but is now Back On The Pedestal. To compound matters when you try to point out how we labelled them and referred to all of the ex’s awful behaviours, we will accuse you of making things up, being jealous, projecting your own behaviours and so forth which will leave hurt and utterly bewildered as to what on earth is going on.
We will talk about going back to the ex which will leave you dumbfounded when you point out that this person has done awful things (according to us). We will deny they have, euphemise their impact or refer to the fact that the ex has changed (of course this then alerts you to the fact we have been engaging with them behind your back which is often the case as we hoover them). If the ex is responding to our hoovers and is being seduced once again then of course you know what is happening to you when we speak with them don’t you? Yes, that’s right, we are giving you the labels we once gave to them as we talk about how we have been conned, how we were misled, how the new IPPS actually told us lies about you and we were taken in by them.
Never our fault. Always somebody else’s.
Triangulation is a major part of the narcissistic dynamic. It allows for two strong fuel lines, it causes parties to fight over us, it makes them work harder to keep us (or draw us away) when they perceive there is a threat. It is an excellent manipulation which delivers time and time again.
Accordingly, we love to be able to talk ex,baby.
21 thoughts on “Let’s Talk About Ex, Baby”
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Leolita,
I think you nailed it when you said, “He is is always playing several women at the same time”. There is a chance that you are still 5 moves behind, and he is already targeting a new victim. Your “drama” will be considered an afterthought, or just background noise of ex’s who are just “jealous”.
Anm; spot on. There are far more women in his FM than I realised. So glad you all keep me sane and provide logic when I am consumed by my ET. Thank you.
I’m currently in the devaluation/disengagement stage of my marriage. I am becoming numb just to deal with this while I plan my eventual escape. I am now the crazy and psycho one. What of my stepchildren though? I’ve raised my stepson for 11 years, his parents let me handle all the parenting stuff because it gave them freedom, but now I’ve noticed that they have stopped warring long enough for them to start slowly shutting me out of my stepson’s life. Of all the things, this is the most hurtful because I know I will not have any rights to see my stepson after I leave. Am I correct that my spouse and his ex (who has several narcissistic traits) are doing this because their son is just another appliance? They both know how much I love my stepson who I raised along with my girls. By the way, my daughters have seen my spouse’s behaviors and have been angry with him and he is now not talking to them. He’s known them since they were 8 and 5 and by all accounts, he was a loving stepfather for many years. My stepson has often referred to me as a second mom, never as my first name. I heard his father on the phone today just calling me by my first name to his son. I’m pretty sure this is part of my devaluation/disengagement. Am I correct that I can do nothing about this and I should just prepare myself to lose contact with my stepson?
I recommend that you access this, it will provide you with the answers to what you are experiencing and provide you with steps you can take.
https://narcsite.com/2020/04/30/child-defender/
Guera714,
I dont know where you live. But if you live in the USA, and you divorced your husband, you could file for visitation rights with your stepchildren. You could either file for “third party custody rights”, or “in loco parentis”. It gets complicated with narcissist though. The kids will have loyalty to the narc.
I forgot to mention that this is a woman who he used to have sex with, 15 years ago. I am surprised over his hoovering skills, being a Lesser and all. But he keeps his fury under control with her because she lives in another city (he is visiting her and have to travel by plane to get there). She is also higly regarded and very beautiful, keeps a god job and is both intelligent and a cool person, from what I have heard.
If you tell her, it is highly likely that you will be strengthening their relationship as well as boosting her ego. She will know of her competition then and will possibly have it verified that she “won” over you and others.
If this would turn out to be the case, then your narc wins, too. He gets the ego-boost from your jealousy-fuel (real or not) and he gets intense new fuel from an ego-boosted woman who might feel hotter than ever and will want to demonstrate it.
I would not want that for *my* Narcx.
Thank you for the perspective and insight, lisk! You are so right. But when my ET is high I Get so blinded by emotions. That is why this forum is of tremendous help for me.
I was ensnared for 6 years, and escaped. Then hoovered back, but this time he has kept quiet that he was with me, which allowed him to appear single and able to ensnare others. The new prospect was kept hidden until recently. He also tried to cover it up by saying he was with other women (even mentioned another name, wanted me to buy into that). Now I have found out about this new woman, and she is someone he «just had sex with» (which is practically as far as anyone gets with him, except he does not tell you that in the beginning, so no wonder the women seem to think they are in a relationship, which was also my impression regarding my own entaglement with him, before I knew what I was dealing with). But I was told he has been messaging her and kept her interest for the last year. He has not told her that he was also having sex with me on a regular basis.
I am going to tell her. And then go back to no contact with him. She deserves the truth too. I know this is contrary to the advice we Get here, but I still am doing it. I am not going to use words like narcissist, but just tell her that he has been with the both of us and also what he said about her (that he is not interested. That SHE wants a relationship, and that he does not want that. I know from my own experience that he has not told her this. And I want to tell her to watch out, that he cannot be trusted. That he is always playing several women at the same time.
My only bad intention with this, is that I do want to make things not so (fucking) easy for him. He has abused me and deliberately lured me, and now I know. To tell her this might ruin things. That would be the best for her. I truly want this womans best, and I am not jealous. I could not care less about what he might say about me, I am not going to have anything more to do with him. If she does not believe me, and still wants to be with him, so be it- she will find things out for herself. Some day this will resonnate.
I have already written the message I am going to send her. And I have discussed the matter with a mutual friend that I share with her. I do not know this woman myself. This mutual friend had not been in contact with her for a few years, but kones the both of us, and she said that I should tell her.
But, he is a Mid Lesser ( with many traits from LMR AS well), and I am therefore wondering what to expect when he finds out I have told/ warned her. How worried should I be. What might be the outcome for such a scenario.
1. Do not tell her. You are being guided by emotional thinking.
a. You are breaching no contact
b. You are going to be impaled by the Devil´s Pitchfork
c. She is unlikely to listen to you
d. You will face repercussions by doing this.
There is no upside to doing this and several downsides.
Do not do it.
Thank you for replying so soon, and for your very clear view and guidance in this matter.
But I need to debate it one more time just to fully understand, since I am now truly convinced that this is in her best interest, and that there is nothing he can do or say to me- since he is blocked everywhere and I do not care whether he smears me or go mental on me, I expect hundred calls, but that does not matter. I can contact the police if he persists. So what can he actually do?
Could he report me to the police? It is not illegal to tell her. But he could probably tell them other lies about me that could make them interested in me? I have nothing to hide, but a razzia would still not be appreciated. I do not want that kind of attention. (Even though they would not find anything illegal here).
Could he kill me?
Could he call social services and lie about my parenting for example relatert to drug abuse? That would also be a lie, but nevertheless something I would not appreciate that would involve meetings and testa and so on. (He has done this before to someone else/ a man who owed him money).
(The more I think about these listed possible and worst thinkable consequences, I see that maybe it is not worh it).
But the benefits are that I might save this woman from the misery I have been though, all the years I have lost by being in an ensnarement with him. That must be worth something? If she thinks I am the crazy ex (now), then maybe that would change when he later is devaluating her. (Otherwise she will be used, maybe for years, without realising anything?) Also, I am kind of exposing him and his sorry ass. He does so very much deserve it, HG. If you had only known how much…. (Guess this is my narcissistic trait)
Also I am wondering if you say this because you are a man. (sorry. Probably my ET) my thougts are: Women do like to know. And we do not like to share men. I would like to know. Our mutual friend said she will react on this, as she is also a person who does not like to be messed around. She also said she thinks she will be glad for the heads up. My message to her is also very well written, and not reflecting a jealous person. (I have not sent it).
Why does this not matter?
You are focussing entirely on the wrong thing. You are wondering what might happen if you do it with regard to his response (because you actually want to know because your ET wants to encourage you to do it). You do not need to know how he will react because the most appropriate course of action as I have already explained and supported through the explanation of the downsides is, do not do it. It is not about what he will do to you, that is just one of the downsides. I have detailed the others.
When you know, you go. You do not try and warn the current victim, you do not run around trying to expose the narcissist (no matter how much the narcissist deserves it), you do not go to war with the narcissist, doing any of these things and other besides where they cause you to enter one of the five arenas of interaction is breaching the first golden rule of freedom.
Ok. Thank you. That might just be enough to keep me from doing it. I will not send it. (At least I think I am able to control myself not to). What you say makes very much sense. There was something (my LT?) that made me write to you about this before I went on and just did it. So my LT is there, somewhere….
And thank you for appealing to it and providing me with some much needed cool hard Logic.
(But I need to admit; I have already broken NC. It was only for a day. But still. He called me 3 days in a row, NON stop, until I answered, then he asked me something that he could easily ask anyone else. He clearly wanted to see if I answered, and to have more sex. (The latter was also stated in more expressive words). Turns out he had just arrived from 4-5 days visiting her the week before. (This was just before the national and international corona lock down/ quarantine).
I am in NC again, and will be changing My Number).
I thought I had control again, but I realise (as stated in GOSO or the first golden rule of freedom) that it is way too soon to imagine such things. I am still deep into my ET .
But still, what do you mean by repercussions? I do need examples, if possible. If I am Ok by breaching NC for this matter, and I know I am guided by ET, but still I want to do it. AS far as I can see, if it does not involve any of the listed consequences, I could live with it.
Thank you for adding logic into my situation, I am most grateful, and recognise what you say about my ET.
I will not contact her. Working on keeping my NC (solid) now.
Sometimes the messages are so defeating HG. It’s not like if a narcissist grabs my purse I’m going to say, “Oh my God—take it, you scary narcissist and roll
over..” Yes—if it’s a potential partner or “friend”’then sure. (GOSO) But it is exhausting to think we all just “take cover” because the narcissist is blowing through and they are so scary. With 1/6 it’s all over the place.
Hi Leolita, I hope you don’t mind another perspective. My feeling is you want some form of justice that cannot be obtained. Your desire to “save” this other woman that you do not know, is likely driven by your desire to save yourself from all you have already endured. This is not possible. Further, you cannot tell his new source anything she will be able to hear, and if she does it will not be positively perceived. The unfortunate truth is we all need to learn in our own way. Consider when you were a child and were told something, did it anyway, and learned a lesson. It was necessary and valuable to learn the lesson. You will not be able to prevent her pain, and if she eventually agreed with your attempt to make you see the light, she will only feel worse about herself. There is no good to be gained here. I do sincerely hope this woman catches on quickly and leaves this jerk, but it is up to her. It is her life, and her choice. Most importantly, if you do this, you will torpedo your hard won progress by staying involved. Instead, make yourself your number one priority. Cut all contact and avenues of information regarding your ex. Delete him from your life completely. I know this is hard. I understand your pain, but please do heed HG’s excellent advice. He knows more than anyone how this will play out. So please cut all contact and do NOT send this email. Taking the high road will do more good for your health, self-esteem and wellbeing than ANY other action you can take. Sending you hugs during this painful and frustrating time. Take care.
Thank you so much for this reply. I have not seen it until today. I did not send the message, and I am so glad for that now. I found out she was just one of several IPSS. I have blocked them all. Still working on my ET which ran high after I found out who the new IPPS is, a vulnerable former friend of mine. We all live in the same small city. My house has been on the market for a long time, but have not been able to get a buyer. So hoping to move asap.
Hope you are doing Ok and sending you hugs back! <3
Hi Leolita, I am so happy to hear you did not do so, and happier still that you have blocked all ties and are looking to move. Turning that page will be such a relief. You will find a new lightness in your step and joy will return. Your mind will be clear and one day, you will actually not have any of those thoughts cross your mind. I look forward to hearing all about it on that day. Until then, stay vigilant. You are bound to have a few waves of ET that challenge you, but remember to listen to HG and stick with your LT. It seems the quarantine may be easing soon too, so you might get some offers on your home soon. I hope so! Great job and best of luck going forward!
Thank you, FYC! ❤️
Leolita:
“Also I am wondering if you say this because you are a man. (sorry. Probably my ET) my thougts are: Women do like to know. And we do not like to share men. I would like to know.”
I’m not one of the longtime readers, but I’m pretty sure this advice goes out to everybody, including many of Meghan Markle’s and Amber Heard’s exes, who wisely did not try to convince the newest victim that Miss Thing was a skanky, exploitive ho-bag. Anyone who did try was unheeded and then shunned, and the narcs promptly used it as material for pity plays.
Insert Shangri-la lyrics:
My folks were always putting him down (down, down)
They said he came from the wrong side of town
(whatcha mean when ya say that he came from the wrong side of town?)
They told me he was bad
But I knew he was sad
That’s why I fell for (the leader of the pack)
Or McCoys:
Sloopy lives in a very bad part of town
And everybody there tries to put my Sloopy down
Sloopy I don’t care what your daddy do
‘Cause you know Sloopy girl I’m in love with you