The 10 Rejections of Intimacy



We embrace the trappings of intimacy because we know this is what you expect when our relationship commences. You want to touch us; you want to be touched. You want to gaze into one another’s eyes and revel in what you see there. The tenderness of the kiss, the tingling sensation that arises from the briefest of brushing touches and the safety and security of a hand being held.

We endure all of this in order to maintain the illusion of our perfect love and to provide you with that which you have been conditioned to expect as denoting love, affection and passion. Such intimacy repeatedly hints at a place we would rather not go but the necessity of your seduction means that we focus on the task in hand and dispel those occasional thoughts of what that intimacy means and signifies.

Those considerations are banished as we press on with our crusade and complete our quest. Once our tendrils are wrapped around you, our fangs sunk deep into your emotional jugular and the fuel flows, then the provision of such intimacy can finally and thankfully be turned to a better application, namely conveying rejection to you and in turn bring about despondency, humiliation and confusion.

Whilst we prefer words to do our work, these rejections work marvellously well because of the effect that they have on you and the economy of effort that comes with them. Provision takes effort. Denial comes easily. Here are ten rejections of intimacy.

  1. No eye contact

I don’t want to mirror you any longer but I don’t want you seeing the lurking darkness in my eyes, not just yet. Instead I will settle for evading looking at you, creating the sensation that I cannot bear to look upon you, which is rather accurate because now you are reminding me too much of what I despise and I would rather look elsewhere.

  1. Kissing the top of your head

We know you want to be kissed on the mouth but that isn’t going to happen. Not today and not for a while until I decide I can stomach doing so in order to get something from you that I want. I will kiss you on the head, tilting your head down, making you lower yourself in front of me as I place the patronising light kiss on the top of your head. You are a child to me, someone who knows no better and has to be guided by me. You are bowing, showing fealty through this gesture for I am your ruler and your liege.

  1. Shuddering if you touch us

You cannot place boundaries for me. I go where I want. You however have no entitlement to me. You require my permission and especially so when it means violating my space. If you catch me unawares and touch me, no matter how lightly, I will give a violent shudder as if have been touched by something unpleasant so you are left in no doubt as to what I think about you.

  1. Turning our back on you in bed

This is done as soon as we climb into bed on the occasion we have deigned to provide you with our presence or not banished you from the bedroom with a well-time bout of aggression. You have your hopes raised of sexual union or at least the heart-warming pleasantry of cuddling up together. Instead you receive a glacial wall that is our back and if you think this is an invitation to “spoon” with us you will be sharply elbowed or back heeled away from us.

  1. Avoiding taking your hand

Once upon a time we always took your hand as we walked along the road, through a museum or around the shops, making you feel loved and showing the world that we were together. There was a time when we wanted everyone to know that you were ours. No longer. We will ignore the proffered hand, driving our own into our pockets or shaking off your hand if you happen to grab ours. You don’t decide to show others we are together; don’t you realise that one of my new prospects might see?

  1. Awkward Evasion

You try to place an arm around us and we suddenly jump up as if we have sat on a tack. You attempt to hug us and we move around you like a rugby player evading a tackle, often contorting ourselves into a move which would be more often seen in a gymnastics contortion. Our desire to wriggle away, duck under, escape and move apart suggests that your very touch might burn us. The exaggerated movement can leave you in no doubt that this was deliberate.

  1. One-sided hug

You have taken us by surprise and launched a hug at us, be it from the front, sides or rear. You will not have it reciprocated. There will be no return gesture, no warming and intimate response. We will stand like a block of ice, arms down by our sides, back stiff and stare straight ahead willing this uncomfortable moment to end.

  1. No longer naked

We once paraded around naked in front of you, letting it all hang out, without a care in the world. Truth be told we wanted you to look on our naked form and admire and it was also done to signal to your that we were entirely comfortable around one another in the buff. Now we behave like a coy virgin. We wear pyjamas in bed rather than sleep naked, we lock the bathroom door when we are in there so you cannot walk in on us and we always wrap a towel around us in order to cover-up our intimate areas so you cannot see us. If you happen to walk in unexpectedly when we are naked we will grab the nearest shirt, sombrero or fruit bowl to cover our modesty or dive behind a door, under a bed or out of the window. You don’t get to look any more.

  1. Proffering a cheek

You wait to kiss us and want to plant a tender kiss on our mouth. Others are looking and we must have consideration for the façade. An awkward evasion move now would be unwise and might invite unwanted speculation and comment. Instead we turn our head so you are left with no option but to plant that kiss on our cheek. We will not hold the cheek there either but pull away as soon as you embrace it. You are being given advance warning of your demotion from intimate partner to outer circle friend with this rejection tactic.

  1. Moving if you lean against us

You want to cuddle up next to us on the expansive sofa. If you do, we will get up and move to an armchair as soon as you begin to lean onto us. If you try and the sit in my lap, I will tip you up and deposit you on the floor as I leave the room and give you a silent treatment for pushing the matter too far. If I am lying down watching television and you try and climb on me, you may as well be trying to wrestle a crocodile as I will resist your advance and push you away before moving into a position which is easier to fend you off and send you a clear signal to sit elsewhere.

176 thoughts on “The 10 Rejections of Intimacy

  1. Danielle says:

    How have I only just found this website. You have literally just details my living situation for the last year and a half. He changed to this over night! Only thing missing is he didn’t cover up with clothing.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Keep reading, all the answers can be found here along with the tools for achieving freedom.

  2. Cat says:

    Thanks Lisk 🙂

  3. Cat says:

    And…. I gather Aries/Taurus are the most common signs in the northern hemisphere, being 9 months after the fertile warm June/July. What are astrology believers going to do about that 😉 ☕ It’s not one sign per one twelft of the world population.

    1. Sweetest Perfection says:

      Only that I was born one month premature…

  4. alexissmith2016 says:

    HG, what was the name of the article where you talk about how you find it easy to make decisions e.g. if someone needs to be sacked etc. I’d like to share it with someone. thanks in advance

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Hmmm, an article about making decisions? How about I put “decisions” in the search bar and see what happens) Oh look, “Decisions, Decisions” ! The very article you need, how about that, this search thingy is like magic!

      1. hahahah cheeky! Yup, I guess I didn’t think it would be so simple! Nice one. Much appreciated

        1. Lorelei says:

          I needed to read that—thanks Alexis. I have a matter that a person is upset about because she did something I questioned. (Details irrelevant) Anyway—stomping down my concern about her feelings being hurt is useful. Her feelings are not my concern. I was correct and she was not.

          1. alexissmith2016 says:

            Yes I always think back to that article when I need to make a tough decision that someone won’t like and I consider to myself what would HG do and how would he feel about it and I apply the same. Perhaps in a less ruthless way. A friend of mine needed to do the same so I thought that would be a great article to share with them.

          2. alexissmith2016 says:

            HG, do you have an idea of timeframes when narcs collide (greater) think that will be part 4? Will be ready? Greaters must come across each other more than most of us come across greaters due to the social circles you all mix in. I cannot wait to read what goes through the mind of the greaters when they have to interact with each other.

          3. HG Tudor says:

            No, I do not have a timeframe for that material.

          4. alexissmith2016 says:

            ah. HG, you have taught me patience better than anyone else ever could.

          5. HG Tudor says:

            Apparently it is a virtue.

          6. alexissmith2016 says:

            And I’m incredibly virtuous HG.

        2. K says:

          Hahahaha…put burger king in the search bar and watch the magic happen! I am having fun with this.

        3. Lorelei says:

          Indeed Alexis—she dealt with it better over the weekend but there is a balancing required so I don’t want to be a callous type. HG isn’t capable of caring about people in this way so I understand there is efficacy in his role in some scenarios, but to be frank, you can’t not have empathy (or at least the facade) in most organizations/situations. I don’t have an issue with even a somewhat callous deportment—it’s the abusive shit that is just ridiculous. There is no
          real honor in abusing people to charge one’s own battery.

      2. K says:

        Hahahaha…the magic truly is in the fingers and the search thingy is quite helpful.

        1. Lorelei says:

          K—you just like to play with things. I know what you google!

          1. K says:

            Hahahaha…get your mind out of the gutter!

            After I was done on narcsite, I googled: Thriller Books and then proceeded to order: The Spy Who Came in From the Cold and The 39 Steps from the library (if it ever opens again). Lockdown sucks.

      3. K says:

        BTW, the search thingy works much, much better.

      4. K says:

        you can put Triple Track in the search bar and it actually pulls up the article!!! Hot Damn! You couldn’t do that before.

  5. NarcAngel says:

    Farah Ayaad must have forgotten that Narcs have birthdays too. Here’s her assessment of StepNarc:

    8. Taurus: April 20th – May 20th

    Taurus are incredibly enduring with people. They let people grow at their own pace and see through the struggles they go through. Taurus’ downfall is that they compare themselves to others too often that they forget the beauty of each individual and what makes people unique on their own.

    Lovely. I think we know where Farah is on her scale and in her information. Her initials confirm it. F(ucking) A(sshole).

    I’m going to start my own Youtube channel assessing people by their initials (not). Seems just as legit.

    1. HG Tudor says:


    2. Love says:

      Lol! I had to see this for myself. According to her astrology, I am the biggest asshole of them all – Scorpio ♏️❤️

      1. njfilly says:

        Ha ha!! I’m a Scorpio too and actually, this makes a lot of sense. I also took a look and it does describe me.

        I believe astrology, as well as other metaphysical and spiritual beliefs all have some validity. They all contain little pieces of truth, possibly with none being any closer to full truth than any other, they just contain a different segment.

        The truth is a mosaic that needs to be pieced together from all different beliefs and cultures. The truth is always hidden from us and it needs to be found.

        Just adding my two cents.

        1. Sweetest Perfection says:

          Njfilly, you are a theosophist! I love astrology, if I don’t like the prediction of one person I can always read another until I find the one that really suits me.

          1. njfilly says:


            Theosophy is of the devil!

            I don’t really follow astrology or read the daily horoscope but concerning the zodiac signs, I am a Scorpio and most descriptions of the character traits are accurate to me.

            I like to dabble in things and years ago I read about Free Masonry, Wicca, Satanic bible and other beliefs.

            Incidentally, WordPress did not give me a notification of your comment. WordPress sucks.

          2. Sweetest Perfection says:

            No it is not. It’s a highly cultivated approach that merges different religious traditions into a non-religious teaching under the belief that all things in the universe are a reflection of the Absolute being. Unfortunately, Hitler -who was a very superstitious man and loved astrology and all kinds of esoteric stuff- was fond of these ideas and he and his friend Muller misinterpreted many of its teachings to make up the aberrant theory of a superior race, the Arian one (which is absolutely false). On the other hand, I don’t believe in the devil, and many forms of human knowledge and progress have been banned by accusing them of being the devil’s inventions. Besides, most of our “standard” religions, which are supposed to be based on love and compassion, have only been used to create separation, to kill, to raise greed and individuality, to fuel hatred for the people that are different than you, and to control and submit the population of countries. That, if anything, is the devil to me.

          3. njfilly says:


            I was being sarcastic, although I do believe in the devil (Satan – the adversary to God) just as I believe in God.

            Speaking of the devil, however, I am currently searching for a handsome devil. Know anybody fitting this description?

          4. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Njfilly, I know someone who is The Devil on Wheels; I’m not sure if he Wears Prada but I know he wears Creed. You are allowed to show some Sympathy for this Devil, but do not give him your empathy!

          5. njfilly says:

            Ahhh, Creed. Mmmmm.

          6. Sweetest Perfection says:

            I forgot to say: my observation about astrology in my above comment was supposed to be ironic. I find horoscope predictions moronic, so much so that I usually read the ones from the past week to confirm they didn’t get anything right haha.

          7. HG Tudor says:

            Hg approves.

          8. Lorelei says:

            One of my acquaintances wrote of Hitler on his site—views were interesting SP.

      2. njfilly says:

        For the record, I don’t agree with FA’s classifications of the zodiac signs from down-to-earth to assholes. I believe they all have their specific strengths and weaknesses. I was referring to the description that was accurate in relation to me.

        1. Lorelei says:

          Zodiac crud is made up hocus pocus. Better off to do the hokie pokie.

    3. Violetta says:

      There’s a Thurber cartoon in which a man in a courtroom announces to the judge, with touching candor, “I’m Virgo with the moon in Aries, if that will help you any.”

    4. mommypino says:

      Lol that is excellent!

    5. Claire says:

      NA, I almost chocked on my coffee reading about the Taurus 🤣. Both Narc 1 and Narc 2 are oxen, er , Taurus .

    6. Sweetest Perfection says:

      Both my narc and I are Taurus. So now what? This doesn’t help.

      1. Lorelei says:

        I think a Taurus is a great mid-ranger car! An older model Taurus is reliable for the lower mids that like to troll for dates on the strip.

        1. lisk says:


          This is hilarious, Lorelei!

          Maybe not completely accurate re: the mid-ranger, but definitely hilarious!

      2. Sweetest Perfection says:

        MB, I can see your avatar! 🥰

  6. T says:

    When I met the Dr. at work; he was intensely attracted to me. All of his nurses noticed-so much so that he ignored patients just to hang out with me in radiology. This attraction was mutual.

    On our first date; after some drinks–he said he had made love to me 10 times at work through “our eyes”…and he just couldn’t stop thinking about me…..

    Date 2 consisted of him being fine until a passionate kiss set him off (this made me think he was just afraid of intimacy because I reminded him of his dead ex–so I overlooked it).

    He apologized later–and said that “lovey-dovey” stuff made him “sacred”?

    By date 3; he told me he wasn’t “physically attracted to me”–right before he verbally beat me down with several insults and false accusations–and then trying to make out with me.

    I don’t understand the reason or logic behind any of this?

    Why would he waste time and resources on a woman he wasn’t attracted to?
    Why lie about this obvious and previously confessed to intense attraction?!!!!

    I know he was trying to hurt me…although I’m not sure why? We were not yet exclusive and both seeing others?

    I’m looking forward to the hour I booked with you, HG!!

    I need definite answers and solutions on how to avoid all of this crazymaking behavior in the future!!!.

  7. Tired says:


    I don’t remember if I already asked this question.
    Wouldn’t a normal person do all those same things if their marriage was breaking down and they were too cowardly to ask for a divorce?

    As well as it being behavior of a narc it would also be behaviors of a normal that was cheating on the spouse and planning a exit from the marriage. Almost like they didn’t want to be the bad guy but instead wanted to make it so miserable for the spouse that they would file for divorce.

    That’s the way my narc made me feel, like he wouldn’t have the balls to file himself, he’d try to push me to do it . Yet when he’d get an inkling that’s what I intended to do he’d pull me back in again.

    He exhibited all those behaviors over the years, every time coincided with his talking to other women behind my back and smearing me. Once I found out when given a ultimatum, he promptly threw them under the bus and everything was rosy at home again…. until the next time. Bloody roller coaster, ffs.

  8. Michelle says:

    #4 sounds familiar. The one and only time I actually had a committed relationship with a narc we went on a trip together. He made a lot of suggestive remarks about sharing a hotel room together for the first time and what might happen. When we got there, we went out to a comedy club for the evening, had a lot to drink, and came back to our hotel on the subway. He got into bed and turned on the TV to watch the late night shows, barely spoke to me, rolled over to face the wall, and fell asleep. He did not even kiss me goodnight. This is one of those “same book” events that still creeps me out, but I imagine it all comes down to control — just because I had an expectation didn’t mean he felt any obligation to meet it, and falling asleep facing the wall was a way to communicate that. I got up and moved into the other bed in the room out of sheer anger, and he nearly broke up with me in the morning because I did that. Honestly, he was seething with rage to such a degree that I may have been in physical danger.

    Incidentally, the hotel we stayed in was said to be very haunted, but I’m pretty sure the scariest entity in the building was in bed next to me.

  9. Whitney says:

    HG, the God
    Narcs are human beings. I don’t naturally see the Narc label as who they are. I think they are more. It is more complicated. They are each different. I think there is some goodness. That is my Emotional Thinking.

    With time I see clearly.

    I like to compare them. That is part of my ET.

    The LMR Somatic had sweetness. He loved to cuddle. He was a troubled idiot but not deceitful.

    The UMR Elite was a predator. Fake. A liar. Deceitful. He was good to me, but I see him for who he is. Thanks to your work, my God.

    Did I love the third, the Somatic, the beautiful man? Yes in my way, I did. A fantasy that I enjoyed. Perpetrated from hours and days of being alone. Constructed in my head. From a few kindnesses – faked – Intermittently. Someone, by admission, concerned only with appearances. By money, power, controlling people. Can that person also love? No – it is not a true human love – the love is abandoned. There are others. All are interchangeable.

    They were all decent. They would pay their share, or more, or all. They were reliable. On time. Courteous. They never wanted to be victims. They wanted to be great.
    Maybe they were not Narcs.

    With time I will see clearly.

    1. Love says:

      Is Emotional Thinking a flaw? Or is it a power we do not know how to use to its fullest potential. Your comment reminds me of a great statement about “emotional people” from the author Farah Ayaad:

      “They see the beauty in people. They fall in Love with their flaws. And because they see the best in people, they are called naïve. Their eyes see beauty in what is broken, their hands feel tenderness in what’s damaged.

      They feel everything. They feel pain and pleasure. They feel happiness and sadness. They feel confident and they feel insecure. They feel calm and anxious. They are empathic because they feel other people’s feelings. People’s energy becomes theirs. People’s problems become of their own. And because They are connected to those around them in such a delicate way, they are seen as “sensitive”,” too emotional”, “too much”.”


      1. HG Tudor says:

        This is a prime example of emotional thinking.

        1. Emotional Thinking is a flaw. It is thinking, behaving and acting without applying logic. In the context of the narcissistic dynamic it results in The Devil´s Pitchfork impaling you meaning continued misery, difficulty and ensnarement. Emotional Thinking is also hazardous in non-narcissistic arenas – it results in poor decision-making in the guise of thinking a sensible decision has been made, it is Flawed Logic.
        2. Emotional Thinking is not about being emotional. To confuse the two demonstrates a failure to understand what the concept is and possibly also the obscuring effects of emotional thinking.
        3. “They see the beauty in people. They fall in Love with their flaws. And because they see the best in people, they are called naïve. Their eyes see beauty in what is broken, their hands feel tenderness in what’s damaged.” – in the context of dealing with a narcissist this is the manifestation of Emotional Thinking corrupting the empathic traits of Love Devotee, Compassion and Healer/Fixer. This will result in interaction with the narcissist with the consequences already outlined.

        1. Love says:

          For me, there is beauty in the the broken. Most people are. Each person is flawed, and beautiful in their imperfection. There is too much hate in this world as is. I rather live in compassion and love. If anything, during this pandemic, the feeling of love is intensified even more. Humanity deserves love. No one is innately evil.

          1. Empath007 says:

            Hello Love,

            It took me a long time to understand that people are innately “evil” or at the very least… there are people who do not possess the ability to feel guilt, remorse or regret. I have dealt with feelings of guilt my entire life (whether the guilt belongs to me or not) so understanding that someone may not possess that same feeling as me took a long time to understand. It makes it a lot easier to let go of an abuser when you remind yourself that they are not hurting, they are not sitting around thinking about you and if they are… it is likely being used for a purpose that benefits them at the moment. I think you are on to something when you say you do not want to waste your time in hate… because abusers don’t mind being hated, they thrive on it, so if you are able to let things go and go out peacefully.. that’s a great skill to have. Its not something as a Co- dependent I have been able to do, as I feel safe in my anger, my anger hides so much of my hurt and I use it to my defense often… more often then I’d like.

        2. Witch says:

          I’m glad you mentioned the difference between being emotional and emotional thinking. I find that people confuse the two a lot and especially confuse being passionate with emotional thinking, like if you don’t sound like an impersonal robot then you must be thinking with emotion.

          1. HG Tudor says:

            Yes, it is a common error.

          2. Cat says:

            Hi Witch, after some detective’s work: found only this reply button on the page.

            You’re right about it being narc parent who flaunts their child’s privacy, mental health, and sex change issue, all over media and social media.

            In some cases the child is also a to-be narc, but doesn’t have to be.

            Happy to hear about your fantasy world coping, it’s often artistic, I suppose I did similar through the years with paintings and sketches. Difficult for the outside world to understand, since many midranger narc parents seem wonderful to the town community.

            Regarding parents: In fact, even mentioning one’s child’s mental health on Facebook/Twitter is I would say a red flag 19 times out of 20, nonnarcs are very careful not to expose others, would you agree HG?

          3. Witch says:

            Yes cat,
            Narc parents speak about issues related to their children as if it is them who is going through it, or that they are going through it together. Then they start some kind of charity or book deal based on “what they had to go through with their child.” Typical emotional incest and emershment of a narc parent.

            And yes cat daydreaming and creativity can help you get through some stuff.
            When I’m zoned out and in my own world I can’t even hear what is going on around me, so someone could be speaking to me and even though I know they are speaking to me I won’t hear them. It’s definitely a skill that helps when living with a narc.

          4. Violetta says:


            In How to Become a Schizophrenic, John Modrow describes how his mother and shrinks basically gave him a label that meant everything he did at school or at home, whether good or bad, was interpreted as a symptom. He couldn’t just be a kid who occasionally did good things or bad things. His mother told neighbors as well as the school.

            I went through it on a smaller scale for being The Hyper Kid. My parents didn’t spread the info around, but the school was giving me my meds, so the teachers who treated me according to the label always wondered why I behaved better for the strict old dragons who didn’t “try to understand” me.

            A lot of these people are psychological Lacey Spears types. They put poison in your brain instead of salt in your body, then complain about how much work it is to deal with the person they made sick.

          5. Witch says:

            Everyone behaves better for the strict old dragons because they were god damn scary!!
            But yes the downside to putting a label on certain behaviours especially so young, is that you may not get to experience being treated the same as your peers and fitting in.
            I didn’t pay too much attention at school and teachers thought I was some kind of problem child or I was below average in intelligence. The truth is in a class of 30 people, I was easily distracted and bored and I needed more attention. When my English teacher gave me a good telling off, I was terrified but I paid attention in all his classes because he cared about me and didn’t believe I was stupid.
            I’ll be interested in reading the book that you mentioned

        3. mommypino says:

          “Emotional Thinking is not about being emotional.” Thank you for stating that distinction. It is a very easy misconception. People can go through intense emotions and still make a choice to act logically and do the right thing. It still boils down to the choices that we make. It is healthy to acknowledge our emotions but unhealthy to let ourselves be slaves to our emotions.

        4. alexissmith2016 says:

          Naive, a word I find so beautiful and endearing. I long to be this once again, yet despise the fact I ever was.

          1. HG Tudor says:

            Neatly summed up and spoken like an empath.

          2. mommypino says:

            I would rather not be abused or let people be abused than be an Empath.

          3. alexissmith2016 says:

            MP – really. You would rather not be an empath? I have given this much thought. No way would I want to be anything other than an empath. ET probably ahahahah. I have also wondered re my children – all empaths. I used to wish (pre-knowledge) that I had toughened them up. Now having the knowledge, I’m glad they’re all empaths they get great joy from what they do and I could not love them if they were a narc. I just would not be able to at all. I find it impossible to have any feelings for narcs now.

            I’m intrigued to know why? I have my ET largely under control now and use LT most of the time but I very much value and love the little bit of ET I have left which usually now only manifests after a glass of wine haha

            HG, could we also do a poll on this. If we had a choice, what would we rather be? e.g. different type of narc/empath/empathic/normal/narcisssitc etc etc

          4. HG Tudor says:


          5. wahoo yay! thanks. I’ll take perhaps as a yes then

          6. HG Tudor says:

            Feel free. It’s still perhaps.

          7. Hahhah okay

      2. lisk says:

        Farah Ayaad sounds like she loves to hear herself write.

        1. MommyPino says:

          lisk, I remember us having a conversation about empathic self help gurus and I think we may have disagreed at that time. I like when an Empathic self help guru teaches about healthy boundaries etc. but when someone encourages people to continue habits that cause them to be vulnerable to abuse, I have a huge problem. I was abused by my mom for my whole childhood. It is not a joke to live with someone with NPD. It’s not something that I can take lightly. If you watch Carrie and think that her life with her mom was fine then go ahead and have kids with a narcissist because that’s how my mom was (I’m not referring to you lisk but to the self help guru).

          1. MommyPino says:

            Just to clarify, what I was trying to say is we disagreed at that time but now after reading what Farah Ayaad wrote, I agree with you that empathic self help gurus can be dangerous if they teach about giving love and light to ‘everyone’.

          2. lisk says:


            I am sorry you had to grow up in those ‘horror-story’ circumstances. I hope am glad that you made it out an empath.

            I agree. I have no problem with healthy boundary self-help gurus. In many ways, HG is one of them, though we know he is more than that. But I cannot oblige the stupid or the sappy.

            When I looked up the “author” of that “great statement,” I saw that Farah Ayaad is “a unicorn wannabe.”

            HG, what kind of empath (or narcissist) is a unicorn wannabe?

          3. HG Tudor says:

            Can you elaborate on what a unicorn wannabe is described as and then I can comment further, Lisk?

          4. lisk says:

            Unfortunately, I cannot.

            I collected unicorn-related kitsch when I was a younger teenager, but I never wanted to be a unicorn. That is for sure.

            I have seen someone called a “unicorn queen” as well.

            I have no clue what it means. Plus, it sounds utterly stupid.

          5. Love says:

            Lisk, I was not touting the author Farah Ayaad. I actually did not know anything about her until I came across that particular article /poem. Her words resonated with me. That’s all. In no way was I promoting her as a self help guru/astrologist/unicorn.

          6. lisk says:

            Good to know, Love. You had me scared there for a minute!

          7. mommypino says:

            Thank you lisk, I’m totally out of that situation now. I have a lot of things to thank for.

            “Unicorn wannabe” is such a great description lol.

          8. lisk says:

            I’m happy to hear that, mommypino. Examples like yours do give hope (yes, HG—hope!).

            RE: “unicorn wannabe” . . . But what does it meeaannn? I have no idea!

          9. mommypino says:

            Lol it’s hard to explain what unicorn wannabe means. But it fits her so right with the samples of her work. It’s like her work is not grounded in reality. With HG’s work he tackles the bitter stuff that many would not touch. And his work is heavily supported by facts. With her she mixes some real observations with fantasy land ideas.

            I should probably mention that I think my mom had a lot of comorbidity and not just pure NPD. For sure I know she had extreme paranoia bit she may have had other stuff as well. My mom has wild eyes which my MR sister didn’t have. And also she wasn’t like Margaret White all the time. Those instances happened a lot but a lot of times she seemed normal too and I shared a lot of laughter with her. She had been calling me a whore since I was three or four, when I used her makeup to play with it without her permission. My husband said the moment he met my mom it is obvious that there is something significantly wrong with her mental health. He said my sister was troubled and made a lot of idiotic choices but she was not mentally ill like my mom. So I think my mom indeed had more than just NPD.

        2. mommypino says:

          lisk, I looked up Farah Ayaad and found an article that she wrote in Thought Catalog. She ranked zodiac signs from down to earth to assholes and my zodiac’s ranking is 9 out of 12 lol.

          “9. Capricorn: December 22nd – January 19th

          Capricorns don’t give-up on people. They fight the good fight until the end. But, they also are stubborn especially when it comes to their opinions on people, religion, politics and life in general. They hold on to what they think is true and don’t take others’ points of view lightly. They drag themselves and everyone else in negative and stressful situations.”

          1. MommyPino says:

            I guess Capricorns don’t get love and light from Farah Ayaad. 😜

          2. HG Tudor says:

            Ranking zodiac signs by reference to down to earth through to assholes, what a load of absolute bollocks. That can get fucked sky high!

          3. mommypino says:

            I agree HG! Totally sky high!!

          4. lisk says:

            I only trust Linda Goodman for astrological accuracy!

          5. Renarde says:

            I’m agreeing with Hg on this one.

            Astrology is the biggest load of bollocks I’ve ever had the misfortune to come across.

            Astrology relies upon creating soundbites that we can all relate to. It’s an aspect of cold reading.

            Now, in my mix I have Contagion. To my my mind it means I can pick up on shit that people are trying to hide. I do not have a 100% success rating because ET gets in the way. But when it does happen, I am blistering accurate.

            I should add that I’m a Fellow of the Royal Astronmjcal Society.

          6. mommypino says:

            “ Astrology is the biggest load of bollocks I’ve ever had the misfortune to come across.”. So true Renarde, I tend to find something I can relate to about myself in most of the zodiac signs.

          7. Renarde says:


          8. mommypino says:

            Yikes Renarde, I copy pasted and quoted the wrong thing. I meant to quote this one,
            “ Astrology relies upon creating soundbites that we can all relate to. It’s an aspect of cold reading.”

            The Contagion is interesting. I would like to learn more about it in the future. It is the hardest school for me to understand. I’m also still unsure about what a SE is but at least I feel like I have some ideas. I remember I was falsely accused of something by a Contagion before and it makes me wonder why the Contagion got it wrong.

          9. Renarde says:


            Agreed on the hardest school. Hg has been threatening an article for blummin years!

            Ok. Obviously, you are upset and irked by what happened to you on the boards. I’m not sure what did happen so I’m now pretending that it was me who hurt you. If that makes sense?

            My contagion, my gut instinct has never let me down. Ever. When I have made mistakes, and believe me, I’ve made many, is when I overthink.

            The brain gets involved. Perhaps that’s what’s happened in your instance? The contagion overthought?

            Ignore I say unless you get a repeat. In which case, you do need to involve the little grey cells.

            Hope this helps x

          10. lisk says:

            I read HG as saying that what was a load of absolute bollocks was the ranking of zodiac signs by reference to down-to-earth through to assholes, not that astrology as a whole is said bollocks.

            Perhaps I should have inferred the latter?

          11. Renarde says:


            Well o know what it is and it seems you do too.

            So many fortune tellers are unaware idiots. The sad truth is that you can find oracles. But the geuine ones are few are far between.

          12. Narc Noob says:

            Mommypino, I have been wanting to ask someone here for a while (please disregard if it suits you and no offence is meant by my question), how do you reconcile your christian belief with NPD? Assuming I have the right lady in mind (there are a few christ followers here).

            I don’t know how I could accept HG’s teachings that NPD is not curable, and a person can not be changed, especially in light of the teachings of christ, that everyone can change/must change. Do you regard it as an illness and that God will overlook it?

            Please delete HG if questioning on this grounds is out of scope and isn’t allowed.

          13. mommypino says:

            Hi Narc Noob,

            You’re question is excellent and I have been ruminating about similar thoughts for a while now too.

            My narcissist mom passed away last year and I have been struggling about her NPD and what will happen to her after life. So she had this disorder that caused her to hurt people because of her incessant need to control and to win. Her disorder caused her to permanently never feel any empathy or love. How is God as a father look at that? I just came up with a thought that the body is separate from the soul. The body had the disorder but the soul would not have that. Maybe in the after life she can finally understand and love me. So partly I believe that it is something that God may decide to overlook depending on the unique circumstances of the individual.

            Narcissists have been described many times in the Bible although the label was never used. If we look at the stories in the Bible, a lot of them are not expected to change.

          14. mommypino says:

            Narc Noob! I found a Bible verse teaching GOSO and No Contact.

            “2 Timothy 3:1-7

            1But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. 2People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, 4treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God- 5having a form of godliness but denying its power. HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH SUCH PEOPLE. 6They are the kind who worm their way into homes and gain control over gullible women, who are loaded down with sins and are swayed by all kinds of evil desires, 7always learning but never able to come to a knowledge of the truth.”

            I was one of those gullible women before until I found HG’s work!

          15. mommypino says:

            Narc Noob, the “ 5having a form of godliness but denying its power.” and “ 7always learning but never able to come to a knowledge of the truth.” refers to the holy narcissists.

    2. BB says:

      You seem delusional?

    3. mommypino says:

      It’s really important to see people for what they are.

    4. mommypino says:

      I hope you don’t see my comments as a criticism to you Whitney. You’re a beautiful person and I really like you. It is just hard for me to see glorification of narcissists or narcissism after being abused by them almost my whole life. I know that each person whether narcissists or not have good and bad sides to them. But narcissism by definition means that they go through life hurting people.

    5. Whitney says:


      I’m so sorry, I really enjoyed your replies to my other comments, and didn’t get a chance to answer and now they are lost to me.

      You said “It’s really important to see people for what they are.”

      I agree, because it feels great. When the Somatic shattered my delusions by shocking me, on a few occasions, I briefly saw him clearly for who he was. It was horrific- completely shallow and empty.

      It felt amazing to see clearly. My Emotional Thinking (Delusion I call it) quickly came back, after that brief clarity.

      After a longer time of No Contact, I will be clear minded. I can’t wait.
      My problem is that I daydream a lot, which facilitates my delusion.

      Talking to HG on a consultation also shattered my delusions, and it felt amazing.

      1. mommypino says:

        Whitney 💕, I am so happy that you didn’t see my comments here as a criticism on you as I have been worrying about that. I know that you are not delusional and is just experiencing occasional E.T. I experience/d the same thing with my mom. I occasionally see her as a victim and cry about the beautiful person she sometimes was and cry about the beautiful person she could have been. It is totally normal Whitney (for empaths) to vacillate between feelings and perspectives because we are not capable of black and white thinking.
        No Contact is definitely the answer and talking to HG will definitely help you stay grounded with logic so you don’t violate your No Contact plan.
        Love to you Whitney❣️🦋

        1. Whitney says:

          Mommypino I’m always impressed by your wisdom and your beautiful articulation. When you love someone, it is quite impossible to see them clearly. I’m sorry for your pain and confusion and mixed emotions. You are loving and pure and happy and positive, despite any challenges you’ve faced.
          Haha, sometimes I record my thoughts to read in the future, since I know they are always changing (Emotional Thinking).
          I love it when people challenge my ET. It is a relief to me! You should never worry about upsetting someone because you always have good intentions xx 🌸🌸 you need never apologise Mommypino

          1. mommypino says:

            Thank you Whitney❣️ You are so amazingly kind and generous. 🦋 It would be interesting when you look back at your entries someday. I used to have a diary and I remember reading some of my entries and saying too myself, “What was I thinking? 🤦‍♀️“. I know that you will get there in time and you are doing an amazing job already. Just making the decision to use HG’s help is already an excellent and logical choice by you. You are able to do the right thing in spite of the presence of ET. You’re a very strong person and there’s no doubt you will get through this in time. 💕

          2. Whitney says:

            Awww thank you Mommypino. I love your new emoji- the butterfly 🦋 I stole it haha… I sent it to a friend today with her Happy Birthday message!

            My entries are so emotional that it’s a convoluted mess of words. Fascinating to read later!

            I really appreciate how you described your similar mixed feelings and vacillating perspectives, when it comes to someone you love.

          3. mommypino says:

            Thank you Whitney! I don’t really have any signature emojis. The butterfly just seemed right because it’s springtime right now and it’s pretty. 😊

            I do vacillate between love and hate for my mom. She’s one person I couldn’t paint black. But I have canceled off some people in my life, very few and rarely happens. But they are not my family. If my mom was just a stepmom then I bet I wouldn’t have a hard time painting her black or canceling her out of my life. My stepdaughters are kind of canceled off in my life because I have removed all contact with them. I never had a bond to begin with with them. But I don’t hate them now. I used to hate them before but the No Contact removes any feelings that I used to have about them. I can tell stories about what they did to me like I am just reading a story and not like it’s personal anymore. HG is absolutely right about the ET going away after faithful No Contact and GOSO and that means never looking at their social media or talking about them with friends either. But you can talk about them here because we don’t know them anyway so it involved I think. I know that you follow HG’s instructions so I have no worries that you will get there. And I agree you will be fascinated looking back how far you have come. 💕

          4. Whitney says:

            Mommypino 💐🕊️🦋🦋🦋
            Your love for your mother is strong. You will always love her, and she loved you, in her fullest way. You must feel mixed emotion like love and hate, and love again and guilt for the hate. That’s how you feel when you love your mother, who abuses and then acts nice again.
            You are very forgiving. Positive and cooperative. You are willing to take blame and compromise. That’s why I wanted to jump in when the Narc was attacking you when your mother passed, and then the Narc continued when you tried to make peace. If someone does something unforgivable then it’s best to be rid of them. The lack of empathy that caused the behaviour will mean they don’t care, they aren’t sorry, and the behaviour will repeat.

            I took the proper Empath Detector. Before I had only done it by a Skype conversation 😃 My Geyser was about 57% and then about equal Carrier, Magnet, and Saviour for the remaining 3.
            I was about 50% Codependent and 37% Contagion. I’m not looking at the result right now (so this is from memory).
            I feel like my Codependency and Contagion are equal, or maybe even more contagion. Like I almost never cry for myself, only for other people. I was more sensitive in my early twenties to the point of being debilitated by my sadness for orphans, which was my main concern. I’m debilitated by people suffering, and hysterical (the Geyser part). I can only cope in this world with ignorance or denial. I’m not made to be able to know bad things that happen to people. It’s not natural anyway, we have too much information. I should just be in a small family group without hearing about inhuman tragedy.

  10. Love says:

    “Such intimacy repeatedly hints at a place we would rather not go“. What a beautifully honest statement.
    I once read that the love addict fears abandonment on the surface, but truly fears intimacy subconsciously.
    We are not so different than you. While on the surface, the removal of intimacy causes us hurt because we fear you abandoning us… Subconsciously there is something very familiar and soothing in your withdrawal. You no longer threaten us with what we truly fear most: a genuine intimate relationship. And so we stay ❤️

    1. Claire says:

      Nah, I disagree. I didn’t find any comfort nor I found any relief in my ex Narc withdrawals. I didn’t have any fear to commit in a genuine intimate relationship. I stayed because I wanted to retrieve the earlier days of our marriage. I was so naive to think that I could fix it. Finally, after countless and fruitless attempts I woke up , literally and realised that it was over. The lack of a genuine intimacy pushed me away.
      Of course he hoovered a lot during the divorce proceedings and after, even he proposed again . Ah, the never ending joy of being entangled with a Narc …
      Ultimately I realised that he was not able to sustain a real intimacy with anybody. I was shattered and confused.

      Once I discovered this marvellous blog I got the answers of all my questions, all this if “ but why?” burning inside me .
      HG’ s brilliant work opened my eyes and restored my inner peace.

      1. Love says:

        Claire I’m very happy for you! I am glad you were able to get out and stay out and have peace now. My statement wasn’t about everyone. It was not about all empathic people. I was referring to the ‘love addict’. I don’t know what that translates to here. There are some people, who continue this pattern… with different relationships. Each time going through the same cycle. And it goes beyond being naive and getting ensnared over and over again. There is turmoil within the addict. A true fear of actual intimacy. By comfort of rejection , I don’t mean warm cozy fireplace marshmallow toasting cozy. I mean it’s familiar to them – second nature. Anything else does not compute. In my opinion, they are the very equal and opposite of their narc partners.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          A narcissist who believes they are a love addict but actually addicted to fuel and control.

          1. Repeated pattern.
          2. Different relationships.
          3. Same cycle.
          4. Turmoil caused by lack of control.
          5. Rejection of intimacy.

          1. Love says:

            Very interesting … except it doesn’t fully match up to the level of empathy. And the ability to feel all emotions to a high degree. A love addict feels extreme highs and lows. Joy euphoria sadness pain… and everything in between.

          2. HG Tudor says:

            A narcissist experiences extreme highs and lows as a consequence of fuel levels and the extent of control. They will mistakenly think they experience joy, euphoria and sadness.

          3. Love says:

            What about only choosing cluster B partners? Wouldn’t the narc in love addict clothing want empathic people to properly fuel them?

          4. HG Tudor says:

            Not necessarily, narcissists collide. Narcissists also provide The Prime Aims.

          5. Love says:

            Love addicts are drawn to love avoidants because of both their issues of intimacy. So if both are categorized as ‘narcissists’ then it is a win win for the rest of the world. Especially empaths.

          6. HG Tudor says:

            Somebody who proclaims to be a love addict, is either suffering from emotional thinking arising from their addiction to narcissists (not love) or is a narcissist who is addicted to fuel and control, but thinks it is love. Other factors determine what that person actually is, so the relevant prism can be utilised to interpret which view is formed of the “love addiction.

          7. Witch says:

            HG I’m guessing an empath who is experiencing symptoms of “love addiction” really has co-dependant traits?
            I believe I also have some issues with intimacy but that definitely is an adverse effect of narc exposure

          8. HG Tudor says:

            It is the addiction to narcissists manifesting through the corruption of the Love Devotee. Where the situation is applying to an empath, (and you are correct to distinguish with regard to who is experiencing the “belief of love addiction”) a belief in being addicted to love is actually being addicted to the narcissist. Emotional Thinking causes the individual to believe that they are addicted to love – they are not. An empath does not ordinarily have an issue with intimacy, but may do so as a consequence of reduced emotional empathy, that reduction caused by an external stressor, one of those external stressors in invariably the narcissists abuse. There is likely to be co-dependency traits within the constitution of that empath.

            It is based on the applicable prism through which the behaviour is viewed.

            An empath who gives somebody flowers to thank them for looking after their cat whilst they have been away does so because their emotional empathy causes them to demonstrate their gratitude with this gesture. It is not done out of a need to control. The interpretation of the act of giving flowers is assessed through the prism of the giver being a non-narcissist.
            A narcissist who gives somebody flowers to thank them for looking after their cat whilst they have been away does so because it is a benign act of manipulation designed to obtain control and fuel. It is not done out of emotional empathy. The interpretation of the act of giving flowers is assessed through the prism of the giver being a narcissist. (The narcissist may well believe they have done it as a kind act, but that is the narcissism blinding the narcissist to the reason why they have done what they have done in order for the control to be obtained quickly and effectively). See “Is it a Manipulation?”

            An empath who believes they are a love addict has that behaviour viewed through the prism of being an empath and it is a manifestation of emotional thinking driven by the addiction to narcissists.
            A narcissist who believes they are a love addict has that behaviour viewed through the prism of being a narcissist and it is a manifestation of the addiction to control and fuel (not love although as with the example above the narcissist will believe it is borne out of love, but it cannot be, because they are a narcissist).

            The assessment of what that individual is is based on other criteria and as I explained in the earlier answer many of the observations made would accord with narcissistic indicators.

          9. Renarde says:

            Now that is intresting!

          10. Tired says:

            I always said it was cyclical . Every few years the same behaviors repeating.
            I didn’t know why , I was thought he was punishing me for not feeding his huge ego enough. Sucked me dry.
            Knowing what he is now ,and realising he’ll never change makes me feel ill.
            Really makes me sick to read that he thinks he’s addicted to love. He doesn’t know what love is or he would not have done things he has , not only to me but with all his relationships, familial or otherwise.

            I have pointed out his complete lack of empathy to him in the past. Surely he must know “ something “ is wrong with him , if only based just on that one thing??
            His lack of empathy is astonishing.

          11. HG Tudor says:

            Arrange a consultation and I shall explain this in detail to you.

          12. Witch says:

            Thank you for taking the time to answer HG, it blew my mind.
            I think my issues with intimacy stem, not from reduced empathy, but because I’m looking out for signs of manipulation subconsciously. I’m expecting to be harmed and misunderstood.
            What about empaths who don’t feel properly emotionally stable unless they are in a relationship? Is that not codependency? Because that’s how I feel. While some people are happy single, I feel like I always have to have a love interest

          13. HG Tudor says:

            You are welcome.

          14. Claire says:

            Such a perfect summary, HG! It preciously describes the love addict I have been entangled with for 5 years before I married the other Narc .
            The lack of true intimacy is like an invisible wall you can’t get through.

          15. HG Tudor says:

            Thank you Claire.

  11. Sears and Robuck says:

    Greetings, H.G. I’m a student and have a few questions for you: 1. Why would you go through all of this as to throwing away your time with something for a momentary “transaction”; 2. As the world becomes more informed about you and your kind, are you finding it harder to fool people about your sincerity, or is it kind of the same?; 3. How are you handling the isolation due to COVID-19, that is having “0” supply, or did you hunker down with someone you can tolerate for a few months? 4. A lot of what you say really depends on your supply being physically attracted to you. Would you consider yourself to be “beautiful”? 5. When Narcs grow older and less attractive, how do they handle the rejection? 6. I’ve noticed with a lot of couples where there is one Narc, when they break up, one nearly disappears, and the other is on a public crusade to prove they were the “victims”-for more supply, or is there an element of shame? 7.If you met someone that truly loved you, accepted you for who and what you are, would you destroy them because of it? 8. For the ambitious types: If you were to find a stunningly beautiful, up-and coming “influencer” who could take you and your channel to the next level, would you pretend to love them to grow your influence, etc., and if so for how long? Thank you in advance for your time.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      1. What is “this”? The lack of particularisation prohibits a meaningful response.
      2. Not in the slightest. Not only are the percentages of the informed still low, to be informed is only part of the battle.
      3. The lockdown does not impact on me. It is fuel, not supply.
      4. Incorrect. Physical attraction is part of the equation, an important part but the attraction is driven by addiction which manifests in different ways. I am handsome, not beautiful.
      5. Not all follow the path you describe.
      6. There is no shame.
      7. It is rare for narcissists to actually destroy people as explained in previous work.
      8. I would assess their abilities first, many of these influencers are anything but.

      1. Sears and Robuck says:

        Thank you so much. My first question pertains to the 10 rejections of intimacy that you list. My question was, why would you go through that-why not just leave, or is your rejection seeking some kind of reaction from the other person (if you’ve written/answered this in a prior post, let me know, and I’ll find it rather than you having to repeat yourself). What if your supply was money-how would rejection manifest?

        Lastly, where do you and other Narcists fit on Maslow’s Hierarchy of needs; are there steps in the hierarchy missing for some of you, does it depend on where you place on the NPD spectrum, or does it not apply to you at all?

        According to Maslow, we have five categories of needs: physiological, safety, love, esteem, and self-actualization. In this theory, higher needs in the hierarchy begin to emerge when people feel they have sufficiently satisfied the previous need.

        That is all and thank you.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          1. Rejection is a form of provocation designed to garner fuel and control.
          2. Money cannot be “supply” (awful word). To understand what we need, see The Prime Aims and also the book Fuel.
          3. Our hierarchy of needs would accord with part of Maslow´s but would have a column running right through the middle of it which is Fuel and Control, with alterations to the hierarchy commensurate with what we are and the Prime Aims.

          1. Sears and Robuck says:

            Thank you.

          2. HG Tudor says:

            You’re welcome

      2. lisk says:

        I love Answer 8!

        As I was reading all eight questions, I was actually visualizing that the answers would be coming from K, who would be deftly providing a relevant link for each!

        1. K says:

          Hahahaha…I liked 8, too, and this statement is accurate: “many of these influencers are anything but.”

        2. Lorelei says:

          Indeed Lisk—Angelina never respected any privacy. “I’m respecting my daughter’s hip surgery matter by not talking about it..” I hope she trips over her psychopathy and fucks up her narcissism (fuel) driven needs over & over. Kinda like a bird flying into a house over and over. I can see it now. I imagine some of the kids will be just fine—it’s always a mix that come out of these situations. My brothers are not narcissists. It’s unbelievable after what father did to them. I keep thinking about it lately. They were told they were stupid, worthless, constant threat of physical abuse or actual abuse. Both are well traveled, excellent & interesting men. Fine children. My oldest brother essentially “rescued” a woman and her two children and they are fabulous kids. At the end of the day—they won. And some of these kids will too.

      3. Maeve says:

        Dodged a lot of those questions.

      4. Empath007 says:

        I like the answer the number 7… It is good for us to remind ourselves that someone else can not destroy us… they may make our life harder – and do things close to destroying us, but ultimately WE are in charge of ourselves… I think my ruminating and ET has caused more damage in my life then the actual narcissist (at the present moment).

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Accurate observation.

          1. Empath007 says:

            I don’t mean to take away anyone’s pain by saying that. I know some narcissists have financially ruined people, physically ruined people (to the point of hospitalization where they have to miss work etc). There can be very severe impacts on a persons life. The truly vulnerable ones are children… because they can’t decide to just up and leave abuse at a young age… an adult has to make that decision for them… but the point is and adult SHOULD be making that decision, to leave the abusive situation. Escaping these situations is not easy and won’t look the same for everyone… but ultimately the strength needs to be found within ourselves to say “you can’t destroy me anymore I won’t let you”

    2. Violetta says:

      5. Look at Madonna.

      1. Witch says:

        Madonna and the rest make me very suspicious of celebrities that want to adopt children from a different country. They are like an “exotic” accessory for them. Charlize Theron makes me cringe too. I wonder if she is a narc

        1. HG Tudor says:

          They both are.

          1. Witch says:

            Yyyeeesss I thought so!!
            Never trusted her adopted child being trans either! munchausen by proxy! she wants him to be the poster child of everything PC and liberal and then she can cry about how she’s so oppressed through him.
            No doubt she’ll send him off to Thailand when he’s 16 to be castrated too.

          2. mommypino says:

            I have no doubt CT is abusing her adopted child. There are pictures of her dragging her son while screaming as him in the parking lot. Her fans say we shouldn’t be judgmental because all parents have moments like that. Not true. Although it’s normal to yell at kids sometimes out of frustration or to raise your voice, it’s not normal to drag a child like that while screaming at the child for a long time. If he doesn’t want to go to a dance school she should not force him. Also, CPS has been called on her multiple times already.

          3. lisk says:

            Wow. I did not know that about CT and her “mothering.”

            I do know that she has dead eyes.

          4. HG Tudor says:

            Indeed she has

          5. mommypino says:

            Yes I agree she does.

            If you search Charlize Theron dragging child in parking lot you would see the pictures. I wish that kid can be saved. One time a homer called the cops on her when the child was crying during their picnic with Sean Penn. The hiker believed that something really bad can happen or was happening to the child. The cops came but couldn’t do anything because there was no physical contact and the child was only on time out. They can’t do anything if there’s no physical abuse.

          6. lisk says:

            Oh, my gosh, your description just triggered a reaction in me about work!

            No one (not even NarcBoss’s boss) has been able to do anything about NarcBoss’s insidious psychological abuse. HR won’t touch complaints that accuse her of abuse. And it’s near impossible to “document” gaslighting, or even to call it straight out.

            Back to CT: I just had a wild flash thought—could it be possible that it was a 15-year-old CT who pulled the trigger and killed her father and that her mom created the mom-killed-abusive-dad narrative to protect CT?

            Regardless, I don’t think CT’s acting in Monster was much of a stretch.

          7. mommypino says:

            I’m not familiar with her story but that seems plausible.

          8. mommypino says:

            * a hiker not a homer (typo)

          9. lisk says:

            Angelina’s is right up there with them!

            And sorry (but not really sorry) but so, too, is Sandra Bullock. Not sure if she’s a narc, but she’s definitely got the adopted child tokenism/PC-shield thing going on.

          10. WhoCares says:

            Noooooo…not Sandra!?

          11. lisk says:

            Not saying she’s a narc!

            I don’t like her in general-I do not get the appeal-and really abhor the whole celebrity adoption thing discussed above.

          12. WhoCares says:

            lisk – I know nearly nothing about her personal life or media portrayal, but she pulls off the whole ‘kinda wholesome, kinda geeky yet sexy girl thing’ very well. Genuine? Now I doubt everyone…at tines.
            I do often like her character in movies though.

          13. Lorelei says:

            Charlize said her child claimed she was not a boy at the age of 3. There are transgender children of course—but age three seems a bit early to move full speed into determining statements as a gender identity issue. I looked this up after reading here. It’s interesting re, the Munchausen by proxy comment & gaining attention etc. It’s a curious consideration. I guess many narc parents use their children for attention. It was whacky-doodle enough how my own father was. I knew he was weird at like age 6. Sometimes I’m still blown away and emotional about it. Imagine those kids in 15 years.

          14. lisk says:

            Again on the subject of Munchausen’s: Let us not forget when Angelina’s two eldest daughters had surgeries around the same time in the past year or so. Shiloh had hip surgery at 13. Hip surgery at 13???

            AJ even wrote an essay about it in Time magazine, saying she respected her daughters’ privacy. Huh?

            Even her use of “my daughter” when writing of Zahara makes me think that the “my” is about ownership rather than about any real affection.

          15. Witch says:

            There’s a lot I can say about this recent increase of gender confused children who supposedly knew they were the wrong sex at very young ages. CT says her son told her he wasn’t a boy at 3 years old lol. (So as a parent you just run with whatever a 3 year old says!?)
            I guarantee that a lot of these parent(s) of infant trans children are narcs trying to find a PC way to manifest their munchausen by proxy, getting fuel from speaking to doctors, psychologists, getting news articles and documentaries made about their kid being trans, expertimenting with their kids bodies, controlling their child’s identity and sexuality. If the kid ever realises they were abused, too late, the surgeries and synthetic hormone dependency has been finalised. Their self esteem has developed out of the attention they received being trans. No going back.
            And further more what I am saying could probably get me arrested under “hate crime.” People are too scared to say their real logical feelings about this issue including me, because logical thinking is now a hate crime.

          16. mommypino says:

            Witch I totally agree with you. I have read that it was one of the major conflicts that Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie has about their daughter.

            I will be completely honest here, little kids say things like that all the time. Right now my three year old daughter likes to tell me that someday she will
            marry me. Does that mean she’s a lesbian? There’s no way to know until she’s an adult and finds out for herself. Right now I just smile at her and ignore it because she’s only three years old.

            A lot of the medical procedures they do to these children are irreversible and have lifetime consequences. I honestly believe that it is child abuse. I have been talking to some of my mom friends about it before the Covid situation happened. I honestly believe that it is putting a lot of children in danger.

          17. lisk says:

            Witch, re: “People are too scared to say their real logical feelings . . . “

            People need to get unscared by the bullying that plays/depends on their Emotional Thinking and speak the Logic anyway.

            That’s what I love about the Very Royal Narcissist series: HG’s Logic cuts right through any attempts at emotional bullying by those who try to play the race or gender card to defend Meghan Markle.


          18. Violetta says:

            Considering Theron’s background, it’s a miracle she isn’t worse than she already is.

          19. Witch says:

            If someone could present me with logical reasoning as to how someone can be born in the “wrong” body then maybe I would reconsider my position. Maybe HG has an argument for me that will blow me away.
            It’s psychological. A healthy body that does what it’s suppose to do is not the wrong body.
            Now if someone is an adult and wants to present themselves as the opposite sex, they can do what they want.
            Will they ever literally be the opposite sex, no. But that’s their prerogative.
            However, if I had a child and my child said they are the opposite sex because they gravitate towards interests that are not culturally typical of their sex. The first thing I would do is show them a picture of boy George and tell them that culture is made up bull crap, and there is nothing wrong with their sex, but there is something very wrong with the narrow mindedness of society. I would not start affirming something that is logically not true and something that they can not change.

          20. Witch says:

            Most sensible people would not automatically affirm everything that their child says. How can any one seriously believe that a child, especially a prepubescent child, truly comprehends the meaning of gender… most children that age would be shocked to find out that men and women have different genitals for god’s sake.
            I really wonder why and how this caught on so quickly? I mean to automatically affirm whatever opposite gender a child says they are at whatever age.
            I feel like I’m living in the twilight zone and being told that blue is red and red is blue. And I have to be careful what I say, because some sensitive individual is going to get me arrested one day.

          21. mommypino says:

            You’re totally right Witch. It is very scary for the children. And if you criticize someone like Theron for dragging her child, people would say that you are mom shaming. People just throw names and labels so easily these days. These children are not equipped to make those decisions yet that could change their lives forever.

          22. Cat says:

            Thanks HG. It’s people like Charlize and Maria Sharapova who make me think Carrie Symonds is a narc. A certain type of look.

            Regarding transgender when it comes to children of narcissists I do believe what you guys are suggesting on munchausen by proxy, and I’ve also thought of another thing.

            As children of a narcissist we never really get what is wrong for many years. Some never do. And their minds are desperate to find a cause for this suffering not about that parent. And I think

            “Maybe I’m born in the wrong body!”

            is one solution the mind desperately wants to find.

            I suspects that a person with empathic parents could wait a while, pondering, before that sexchange. They would not be in such a hurry maybe.

          23. lisk says:

            Great insight, Cat.

          24. Violetta says:


            My parents had their flaws, but I am really grateful they did not take seriously my announcement at age 6 that I wanted to change my name to “Petunia.”

            (Always had a weakness for purple flowers.)

            In addition, I went through a tomboy phase before the hormones kicked in. A lot of people do.

            In some cases, no, it’s not a phase, but the people who endorse signs of gender issues too quickly and enthusiastically are just as bad as the people who refuse to accept them at all. They are both exertions of control over someone else’s identity.

          25. Witch says:

            I completely agree with you.
            One of the ways I mentally survived my upbringing was by being very imaginative. I believe I developed maladaptive day dreaming. Within a fantasy world you can be anybody. It would not surprise me that within the fantasy world of some children of narc parents, they are the opposite sex or otherwise become fixated on sex and gender.
            In my opinion there’s no such thing as the “wrong” body especially one that is functioning how it’s suppose to.
            I realise that’s a very controversial thing to say in 2020, but I’ve gone over this issue for several years and that’s what makes the most sense to me.

            The kind of fear mongering presented to parents around this issue is disturbing. “If you don’t transition your kid they WILL kill them selves.” You see that all over the narc controlled media. Kids then pick up that line of reasoning to get what they want.

            What kind of parent puts their prepubescent kid in a news paper for being trans or has their privacy constantly invaded via a reality tv show? A fame hungry narc parent that’s who.

      2. Renarde says:


        Ha ha! I have LOVED Madonna. Because she was fierce and utterly unashamed about her sexuality. She was an unbelievable role model for me growing up. She taught me to never apologise for what I am. Which is unashamedly sexual. I admired her, so much.

        But then she lost it. Tried ever so hard to re-channel her youth rather than put that energy into a different perspective.

        Now she has gone. So sad. I follow her on twitter and one day I lost it. I tweeted ‘Grow up’. And she liked my tweet! Madge liked my tweet! And then the glimmering of respect I had for her evapourated.

        So what is she? She has the haughtiness of an UM. S or E?

        Madge likes to take ideas and spin them as her own. But she lacks the true intellectual depth. It’s just lip service. I note she thinks she is like Friedo Carlo now. She isn’t. She apes, from Monroe to Carlo. Now she’s running out of ideas because she is irrelevant. No substance.

        So where I might be tempted to say Elite, shes not.


        What are your thoughts, Hg?

  12. Hekla says:

    H.G.Tudor, is it possible for a narcissistic man to display 10 out of the 10 bullet points? I believe my SO is not a full-blown narcissist, only narcissistic, yet he rejects me in all the 10 ways you described above.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      You are best served using this

  13. Bubbles 🍾 says:

    Dear Mr Tudor,
    I’ve been noticing “kissing on the head” a lot lately, especially in movies or tv series
    Even Mr Bubbles points it out ….”NARC” ! 🤣
    Luv Bubbles xx 😘

    1. HG Tudor says:

      When you see, it sets you free!

      1. Bubbles 🍾 says:

        Dear Mr Tudor,
        My mum did that to me when I was a kid, as the goodnight kiss when we were in bed (no hug)
        I absolutely hated it, but didn’t know why back then

        The weasel approached me one time when I was sitting down (he was a short arse) and kissed my forehead
        I exclaimed, as he was getting closer, “what are you doing” ? he replied “hang on, you’ll see”
        He then leaned forward and kissed my forehead
        I yelled “what the hell, why did you do that “?
        He relied “I just wanted to”
        I annoying said “well bloody hell, don’t do it again”

        I think that’s when my road to devaluation started 🤣

        Mr Bubbles has NEVER kissed me on the forehead
        If anyone ever kisses you on the forehead GET OUT !

        Thank you Mr Tudor for letting us into all the narcs little secrets
        Luv Bubbles xx 😘

        1. FYC says:

          Dear Bubbles, I would have liked to have seen that. In my mind you are so very sweet and polite, I have a hard time thinking of you saying “well bloody hell don’t do it again!”! Good for you. And I bet he didn’t again either!

          1. Bubbles 🍾 says:

            Dearest FYC,
            I try to be polite n sweet, but it’s hard when you’re dealing with a complete n utter moron
            The weasel n I ended up in a tug of war
            It was most unpleasant indeed
            He literally had no conception of common sense and I was exhausted from trying to explain the basics to him
            He eventually realised I was a force to be reckoned with
            And no, he never tried it again 😂
            Luv Bubbles Xx 😘

          2. FYC says:

            Glad he realized that, Bubbles! You are a force of good😘

    2. MommyPino says:

      My husband never kisses me on the forehead but on our wedding day the photographers asked him to kiss me on the forehead for the picture. So we have some posed wedding photos of him kissing me on the forehead. We both kiss our kids on their heads and foreheads and noses and cheeks and ears etc. and the kids love it! Our kids also kiss us on our heads etc.. We kiss a lot in our family and we hug a lot too. There’s not a day where our kids don’t ask to be cuddled.

      1. Whitney says:

        That’s so sweet Mommypino, you have a wonderful life ❤️

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