Ask 2
Fifty questions posed by those who have been subjected to the clutches of various narcissists.
Fifty answers from the narcissistic psychopathic mind of H G Tudor.
Fifty insights.
Fifty enlightenments.
Fifty reasons to read this fascinating material
191 thoughts on “Ask 2”
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Hello DHQ, I was unable to reply directly below your response so I am posting her anew.
Thank you for your response. My reply follows in bullet points for brevity.
* I did not judge you whatsoever. If you re-read my comment, you will note I am expressing my concerns and offering a different POV.
* While you were ‘entertaining other perspectives’ I simply did not see you considering the perspective of HG or other commenters.
* My calling out the discrepancy between your words and actions was simply that. I understand you assumed Star would explain, but using that same line of thought, don’t you think it is possible that other commenters held your same assumption and therefore did not ask direct questions?
* I thank you for recognizing that all people are deserving of compensation for work performed when offered for sale. We always have the option to purchase or not.
* You state you did not take sides and you see all perspectives, but also could be missing something. I am curious, in retrospect, what is your impression of Star (and your comments) now? Do you still hold to your original views? Or did they later shift regarding Star’s repeated behaviors?
* I wholeheartedly agree that many factors contribute to someone’s behavior.
* Why would I know your view of NPD/APD individuals? You did not share it, but I am interested to learn your views.
* I took issue with the labels abuser, flying monkey and victim. All people can abuse. I prefer to use the term narcissist because NPD is far more complex than just the abuse. HG has no flying monkeys on this site. I understand why some feel an affinity for the term victim, but I do not care for that term in general. I prefer target(s). That may seem like a nit, but the term victim has been diluted by overuse and misused in the past decade. Further, a victim mentality is not healthy to maintain post abuse. We have the power. We can take a stand. We have personal responsibility and agency and when we exercise both we cannot be abused by a N. Instead we GOSO and maintain NC.
* I am relieved to know you do not judge people based upon labels. I am also pleased you recognize the value of HG and the environment of learning and support he has created.
* I assume you are a practicing psychologist. As such, I can see where DSM labels are useful in a diagnostic role or in discussion with your peers. (I also note even the DSM has made many changes to its definitions over the years, and researchers and writers in the field do not use terms consistently.) The problem I see with non-professional labels such as abuser, flying monkeys and victim, is 1) they are often inaccurate, 2) they can be used to disparage 3) they are often misused as a slur or to disempower another.
* I found your comment regarding confronting people with a label interesting. In your Autism example, I’m sure it comes as a shock to the parents. I’m curious to hear what the resulting benefits of such shock and acceptance are? Were they not interested in getting help before, but were interested after hearing the label/diagnosis?
* I mean this in the kindest way, but I would suggest you consider using the term analyze over your term judgement. I am please you consider all contributing factors that is much to your credit.
* It is common for people to limit their depth of understanding by using labels. It limits people’s vision and understanding (you’re X. Xs only/always do Y). This is exactly what happens with any bias label. Please know, I am not saying labels cannot be useful, we all use labels every day. What I am saying is, they should not be used incorrectly or with the intent to limit or smear another.
* I am also wondering if you have noticed that people rise to others views? So much of what we choose in life is based upon what we believe to be true. We have far fewer limitations than most believe. I have learned that through personal experience.
I thank you for your response and thought provoking conversation, DHQ. I will look forward to your further thoughts.
Caveat: I am not saying all people abuse, just making the point that non-NPD/APD people are capable of behavior that is deemed by the recipient as abuse.
Agree FYC re, non narcissists being abusive. My CD friend I grew up with caused a lot of pain. The lure to the narcissist is their main priority, but after reading Chained I now understand she “has to” do these things to survive. “Hide under the cloak of a narcissist.”
I recognize that she feels bad about it—genuinely, but would do whatever it again takes to maintain his favor.
As a parent with a son that has a label I understand what was meant re, using it to get help. I think labels can be helpful for when one reaches a point they need resources. Fortunately, he hasn’t needed much since preK and is only a bit quirky. But when I say “Asperger’ish” to someone to explain nuances they understand. (Although I’m cautious who I share this “label” with) Frankly, it’s not everyone’s business but can be useful. In summary, you are correct—all narcissists are abusers per what HG has said, but they are more complicated of course. Empaths as evidenced by the CD disposition of my childhood friend is further evidence that abusive behavior can occur from anyone. Some empaths that even want to gain favor will throw another under the bus with embellishments and mistruths, so it’s certainly not the exclusive mistress of a narcissist to abuse and even smear. The tenacity behind it is less sustained though, and it looks more transparent potentially. I’ve experienced and seen it. I also like the term targets. One thing about “victim” is that it would be really hard for me to appear credible describing my experience as such. I maintained administrative work for years and looked put together. It would create a disconnect for me to say, “I was a victim of..” Here I am sat and composed for years and I’m using a term that people associate with stereotypes that don’t form alliance with what they see or saw. Stating certain characteristics of mine as allowing targeted behaviors is much more plausible.
Lorelei, Thank you for sharing that history. I appreciate the valid points you made. I would not say that behavior is representative of all CoDs, but I understand what you are saying. There is a psychological phenomena that occurs to even normal people when under the influence of certain leaders (e.g. cult leaders, totalitarian leaders, Svengalis, etc.) I have read accounts of grief, guilt and recriminations of those who escape such people/regimes for their part in participation and for not decrying such behavior. It is sad. I’ve read it can happen to anyone under certain influences and circumstances. I say FTSSH!
That’s for sure. I’ve had a lot of non narcissists dish out what would be considered abuse if I cared. I usually just assume they’re hurt and need a target or are in need of attention – to a point.
See Why Am I Behaving Like A Narcissist and Understanding Emotional Empathy to understand more about this.
I’m so confused by this.
Excellent recommendation, HG. Those logic bulletins are extremely insightful. I highly recommend both, along with Why Do I See Narcissist Everywhere? All of these point out how our perspectives shift under certain conditions, and how empaths, normals and narcissists act/react differently certain conditions. Well worth obtaining.
NA—there are some way out there empaths for sure. The capacity for a full emotional spectrum doesn’t negate dysfunction or even nutsy. Correct indeed. I am half bananas some days.
I agree!! I just wanted to say since you mentioned it, that I don’t like being called a victim. Calling me a target is 100% completely fine with me. This isn’t something I like to tell people, but for the sake of preference/context, when I was 20 in college I was raped but never wanted to call myself a victim even the day afterwards. I held my head high. Not to beat a dead horse, but it baffles me how rude/inconsiderate some people are to just throw things around to random people.
Ashley, I am very sorry you were brutally taken advantage of in college. I respect that you did not let that sick act of force seize your power. I respect your view on the term ‘victim’ and I have heard similar thoughts on the term from others who were victimized by another, but chose to stop being a victim afterwards. That takes true will, courage and strength. I admire that. Well done.
Thank you ❤❤
I second FYC. Ashley, I’m very sorry for your college experience, but you as well as other people here are far too strong to be called victims. You are all inspiring empathic warriors in my eyes.
Thank you for your kind words Fox, so sweet. ❤❤
I’ve never liked the term victim and suggested target here long ago after reading HG’s book Sitting Target. It confirmed that is what we are and target doesn’t have the feeling of helplessness associated to it that victim does (at least for me), but I suppose people are used to the word victim used in media. Similar to HG’s dislike of the term covert used in relation to narcissists – it is quite commonly used but is not the best fit. We will always be targets but we may not always identify with, and need not remain, victims.
In fact I will endeavour to use target from now on in an attempt to empower our own empathic vernacular.
Valid observation.
I completely agree. I think target sounds better in every way. We are targets, targeted, etc it just is a nice logical fit.
NA, I recall your comments on the matter in the past and you have remained consistent. I agreed wholeheartedly then as I do now. Hear! hear! You are a shining example of resilience and strength and I admire that quality. Yes, others can inflict pain, but we can choose (or learn) to move on from that pain and not let it define us. Thank you for your views. They are always appreciated.
K, you might be right. Either way, something not quite right there. I’m not buying it.
truthseeker6157
There is definitely manipulation going on, but the other two parties are unaware of it. It is direct and indirect control through triangulation, pity plays and provocation (N v N v E).
K, I see what you mean.
I have no interest in Star. Colours shown, game over. If Marie is her own person, then I hope to see her elsewhere on this blog, making use of the excellent material available and outside of the realm of Star’s influence.
No one gets free fuel from me. My new golden rule. 😉
See you elsewhere on the blog x
Is star whether male or female of a similar sort to pantman? I don’t quite imagine he gets as much attention as he desires. I would imagine he has to abuse people on different forums too in order to keep his fuel levels topped up.
Alexis—I love when you discuss Pantman. Peaches and pants!
Hey HG. Hope all is well.
I recently had a session with the leader of my empath support group of about 17,000 of us.. she introduced me to all of your work.. which was absolutely crazy how much it helped.
I need a little extra support, as I’m the target/scapegoat of three different narcissists. That waited till I was bedridden thinking I was faking being extremely ill to smear my name, and then harass, ostracize and discard me as I was not not faking.
The leader is Star.. I found her when I was near suicide and cancer.. She is a cool shit and is def impacting and helping so many.
She offered me a spot in her new smaller group she started.. we’re she will be sharing more in depth material and videos.
On top of her constant support and guidance..and me personally favoring your work, as it was the best info out on the net.. in helping me get into the minds of a sociopath and narcs ..and what I was doing wrong ..to help me get out of hyper vigilance
Star doesn’t charge a dime.. she has never put you down.. again I found you because of her. She told me she had left a comment that was misunderstood and read wrong..plus told me of the new book.
So I just checked it out.. & read comments.. and hg think it was read wrong? She doesn’t know I’m writing this ..but the two of you are well known.. she is more private ..for how many you help in recovery.
I wouldn’t be alive if it wasn’t for finding her support group.. then added free counseling.. which I kept being guided to resources including all your books, articles and YouTube videos..
Just wanted to share because if people are going to be so quick to rip on someone who was totally mischaracterized and a comment make others think wrong about her..that’s less empaths getting help. Less helpful info being spread.
Thanks for all you share.
Hello Marie, I am pleased my work has proven of assistance to you. I acknowledge your intention to diffuse what has been described as a misunderstanding and that is admirable of you. I make four observations:-
1. The initial comment was a provocative one. If (and this is giving a huge slab of the benefit of the doubt) it was not meant as it clearly appeared, it was very clumsy and is a very strange way to make an appearance here. Why not arrive with “Thank you for your work HG, I do not condone what you are, but your work is most effective and I recommend it. I also wish to purchase a number of your books for use by people in my forum.” This would have been far more constructive.
2. My response to the initial comment was direct yet courteous. If the initial comment was construed mistakenly, why not when reply “No, you have misunderstood me, what I meant was this…” and expansion and clarification is provided. It was not. Instead, the comments that followed thereafter including those after a gap of five days were demonstrative.
3. People were not quick to rip on someone who was totally mischaracterised. What followed was a slew of failures to address reasonable observations, the flinging of insults, further provocation and blame shifting (the latter capped with “Stop making me reply to you” which was transparently ridiculous. Star not only failed to help herself, she made matters worse through her own conduct.
4. What is stopping Star from writing and apologising and explaining that she was hasty etc rather than leaving it to you to do it? Since you have read the comments, you will have seen Kiki´s comments – that is someone who is able to recognise an error, reflect and respond appropriately and such conduct is to be applauded. Contrast that with Star´s behaviour. Indeed, note the contrast (as I stated at the time) between what Star wrote to a variety of readers and their responses.
I recognise you have come here in a conciliatory manner and therefore have provided you the courtesy of a reply, I acknowledge the spirit of your intention and by all means given the constructive tone you adopt do make use of this place to aid your understanding and march to freedom, beyond that the behaviours speak for themselves and the matter should rest there.
So it is an apology you want HG ?? i apologize for my rude comments i won’t try and bother with why’s. no one is interested i see that from the comments. i am not so above myself i can’t apologize to someone? I think not. reasons dont matter anyways. no excuse.
your interpretations of who I am are not even close, my very first comment was a joke, looking back yes a stupid joke, only me getting it. but your response was aggressive and I responded. that’s it. There is a situation in my life that is affecting my mood i guess you would say, my reactions are defensive af. but to read how you view me is disturbing, so to all those here who felt the need to comment and judge me so harshly, without knowing anything about me,,,,, ,thanks for another lesson. I am surprised every day by the behavior of man, even myself at moments. so with all that you have said about me, …….i still apologize.
Now I have unsubscribed, unfollowed, and am not reading anymore of your judgements, i firmly believe that what other people think of me, is none of my business. have a good day.
You have returned again, I understood from your previous comments that you no longer wished to comment here.
1. “I am not so above myself I cannot apologise to someone?” You have not done so willingly, you have only done so as a response to criticism.
2. “My very first comment was a joke. Looking back yes a stupid joke only me getting it.” No, it was not a joke and it has taken over a week for you to now reveal that it was a joke. Ah, but of course, how foolish of us all not to see that.
3. “There is a situation in my life that is affecting my mood.” I agree, but it is not the same thing.
4. “Your response was aggressive.” No, it was not. It was direct yet courteous. I later you gave examples of aggression. Note the difference? Clearly you are unable to.
5. “so to all those here who felt the need to comment and judge me so harshly, without knowing anything about me.” I thought you were apologising, rather than continuing to blame other people and dole out a pity play. You allowed people to know plenty about you by your behaviour.
6. “I still apologise.” Except you have not. You have not recognised how you have behaved nor have you actually accepted responsibility for your own behaviour, but instead you have blamed me, blame my readers, blamed a situation in your life, blamed it on being a joke (which does not stand up to scrutiny). You have done everything except apologise and once again you have demonstrated your inability to see how you behave.
7. I write this not to explain it to you, because you are unable to accept it, but for the benefit or readers since this is a place of information.
8. Since you have unsubscribed and unfollowed then you need not arrive at someone else’s blog and behave in the manner that you have done so from arrival and thereafter. Your behaviour does not concern me, I use it as an example, but you have insulted and goaded many decent and honest individuals who deserve better treatment from somebody who supposedly holds themselves out as some form of defender.
Hg
Word. Respect.
Star. Fuck. Off.
HG. I know this has wounded you badly. Please feel free to lean on us for support in your time of need. (yes I actually typed that without throwing up)
Are you wanting some dungeon time you rapscallion?!
Only if you deem it needed……my Lord
Was it just me that thought Marie was Star then? ‘ my empath support group of about 17,000 of us’. Would you think to quote that number if it wasn’t your group? No. You wouldn’t. Very similar phrasing and writing style too. Call me cynical, but ….
Kim e
Hahahahaha…that was funny!
Kim e, you NORTY GIRL!
truthseeker6157
When I read the comment, it felt genuine but I thought that Marie was manipulated into writing it.
Truthseeker, It did cross my mind as well, but I thought it best to err on the side of the benefit of the doubt.
Star I jumped to your defence however I read all the comments and realised I was incorrect and this comment of yours is both childish and attention seeking .
You are goading HG .Simple as that .,for a reaction.
Your obvious inability to reflect on your behaviour and realise you may have been over the top and wrong ( everyone gets things wrong sometimes) is very worrying not for you BUT for those you supposedly support and council .
I will say no more on this matter
Kiki
Star—you can’t ramble into anyone’s house and say they are an abusive psycho on day one. You created the entire issue. Even if HG is those things you still have to have some social graces to be viewed as sensible. It’s basic etiquette. Would you want to walk in a restaurant and tell the wait staff they are inept before you even get your steak? I waited at least six months before I called HG a rude name! Maybe longer. Many online supports are graveyards. But you did use the term psycho, dude.. These aren’t classy terms in a meet and greet. Think of a wine tasting. No one says dude until after a few drinks, if even then.
Hello, Marie.
I’m sure that writing that wasn’t easy, and I thank you for doing so.
That’s great that you have received the assistance you needed for help! I know that HG is not known everywhere so it was great that his work was introduced during this time of assistance and that you personally found what you needed in it
I don’t know Star. Originally I saw a possible misunderstanding myself. There are times I write things that are either a joke or an off the cuff comment and it doesn’t make sense. I also saw the 5 days delay of a response as a potential internal debate on whether she should share what she does and why she was originally commented. Based on everything found about her since, it is very plausible that she wasn’t future faking and that meant she was going to buy those books. I also saw the possibility that some of her other comments as a mix of concern and frustration. I had benefit of the doubt until her comments to HG about still talking and all. I do not defend HG very often on this site. What Star did in that moment though was unnecessary. She apparently felt attacked but that response wasn’t necessary or helpful. When you feel attacked on a website what would you do? Personally that would not be my next step.
That’s great that she is helping you and thousands of others escape abusive relationships and is introducing information like HG! What will be an important factor going forward for her groups is how she uses this personal offense she feels in relation to helping others. Will she consider you and thousands of others and continue to use HG’s work which is very good and helpful as you personally have attested; or will she consider her hurt feelings over that and cut off introducing his work? I hope the former for all of the thousands she reaches.
I do hope you stay and continue to comment sharing.
Marie
You are in quite an extraordinary situation. This isn’t helping your recovery. I dont expect you to believe me. You must come to your own conclusions.
Whomever ‘Star’ is, her words have not been good.
One of the most dangerous situations to be in is when you are hurt, deeply and proudly hurt, you seek the wrong advice. Which is, in my opinion, what you have done with Star.
Frankly, reading her words, I wouldn’t trust her as far as I could throw her.. That’s just my opinion.
The words ‘self centred’, ‘arrogant twat’ and a ‘know it all’ could be rearranged in many, various intresting ways.
All this talk of ‘buying books’ is a giant McGuffin.
It’s just wrong.
Instead reach out and let others’ help you.
Hope you are ok. Your post is very divided.
Welcome to the blog, Marie. I am happy for you that you found what you were seeking when you needed it most. I sincerely hope you never again consider taking your life and I hope you have healed from your cancer. You have faced and overcome very significant challenges. It speaks well of you to come here and offer your point of view with regard to Star. I hope you stay and share more with us about your challenging situations with narcissists, you will find a very supportive group of people here.
With regard to Star’s comments, I would invite you to read the thread by time stamp to better understand what we all experienced. It is rare for someone who theoretically values HG’s work to immediately state they “liked it better when he did not profit from his abuse,” followed by insults of other commenters who support and appreciate HG’s work. Then days later, Star returned to claim her true intent was to make a large purchase. I’m sure you can appreciate the incongruity in that line of communication. This is why she was called out. It was not a misunderstanding. There were numerous opportunities for Star to take a more reasonable approach, yet she remained reactive and insulting.
I am not a fan of prejudice in any form, nor slurs. This includes not calling people with APD/NPD abusers, and not calling empaths flying monkeys or victims. While it is certainly wise never to be in a close relationship with a N, as a society, we have benefited greatly from those with APD/NPD, including works from many CEOs, artists, inventors, performers, scientists and more. So, while we must remove ourselves from abusive relationships, APD/NPD individuals are more than any single attribute, much as we are all more than our worst behaviors.
All of us benefit from HG’s wisdom and excellent advice, and we are free to purchase, at a more than reasonable price, a variety of products. We are equally free to opt out. None of us on the blog are abused by HG in any way. I would even go so far to say that HG has been more kind, patient and understanding than even some empaths. Yet whether you love him or hate him or anything in-between, the fact remains no one is entitled. We are only fortunate. I would say very fortunate, and I for one am grateful.
Thank you for your consideration, Marie. I wish you continued healing and peace in your life.
Dear Mr Tudor,
I very much appreciate these interactions and for you allowing it, as it shows exactly what we deal with and how it affects everyone
I view this as a constructive learning curb which helps us to grow and to become more aware and resilient of self and others
Perception and reaction are our challenges
Sincere thanks
Luv Bubbles xx 😘
Correct Bubbles and this is why I allow the interactions and allow people to articulate their opinions also.
Dear Mr Tudor,
Your interactions are of the highest calibre in these situations are always handled most respectfully
You are a true professional sir
Thank you
Luv Bubbles xx 😘
Thank you Bubbles.
Dear Mr Tudor,
You are most welcome
Luv Bubbles xx 😘
I acknowledge I was reactive and over the top in my first comment , I don’t know why I rushed to Stars defence ,I should have stayed neutral.I normally do
Yes I read all her comments now some are very insulting some quite silly .
My comment about some posters still being here was not nice ,I acknowledge that fully.
I reacted when I read some petty insults being flung back and forth by posters which I think I may have misinterpreted.
I sincerely apologise to any poster I may have insulted with my throwaway comment.
Thank you HG
Kiki
You are welcome Kiki. Your response is an example of empathic behaviour by having reviewed the situation and recognised where an honest error has been made. As stated, you are entitled and welcomed to express your opinion and sometimes people will disagree with that opinion and sometimes others will agree. Either way, it is about encouraging an exchange of views in a constructive manner. I look forward to your continued involvement here.
Thank you HG
You are welcome.
Kiki
I wasn’t insulted even though I would likely be deemed in the group that should probably have moved on by now. I mostly hang out by the see saw in case someone jumps off suddenly while you’re in the air or tries to steal your lunch money.
I’m so glad you did not move on, NA, you would be missed. I was also not insulted by Kiki and I think her latest comment is admirable. As for perceptions of what amount of time is acceptable to keep visiting a blog, I would say as long as a person is giving/taking something important to/from the interaction on the blog, then why not stay? This blog is educational on many levels and we learn over time. We also develop affinity and rapport with HG and other commenters. It’s not a fix and leave environment. Most importantly, by offering help and support we can also pay forward our gratitude. It’s all good. No “best by” date here, KTN is evergreen.
Dear FYC,
Excellent comment, couldn’t agree more
Luv Bubbles xx 😘
Thank you dear Bubbles😘
I’m thinking Bubbles—why didn’t we break into the plexiglass business about 5 months ago? Random yes, but a really intriguing possibility.
Narc Angel, it was good to see your face (avatar) when I popped back. Lol I remember our rowdy playground days here 😄
I’ve been here a long time Kiki. I was not insulted. I stay because I find it hugely interesting. I learn something knew all the time and it helps to keep me safe and my emotional thinking in check. Staying here to learn is no different to a doctor who practices medicine and continues to keeps abreast of any new guidance/procedures/treatments.
I am not stuck, only more developed. I can understand why some people may feel the need to move on and forget about all things N. I do not feel that need. There is always more to learn and of course it is helpful to new readers to, to see that there is life after an N.
I certainly have many friends whom I’ve recommended this site to. Some stay like me, others dip in abs out, others use the site until they’re in a good place. Some are not yet ready to understand. Everyone HS mad has to choose what is right for them.
I choose remain. Bloody Dominic Cummings! God damn it!
Alexis—it is interesting and the different commenters light up a room
Much more than Quora, reddit or FB. Brighter readers here in general. I think it is likely related to the writing HG produces. It draws a less epsilon minded (his word or Huxley—either way you get the point) body of commenters. I recall FB support groups and the comments. Very few were helpful. Lots of “He’s texting me and I responded..” Over and over—chasing one’s tail. I also will be able to treat mental illness independently after my add on, so this is a primary area of interest. (Mental wellness that is) It’s a multifaceted interest. (Personal & professional)
I learn more from random dialogue here than elsewhere. K has been instrumental especially and I hope she sees this. There was just something about breaking down the message in her special way that allowed some interpretations to sink in. I also recognize it is a permanent “draw” for me (toxic people) on many levels. Narcissism feels like home. I’m sitting on a swing in the darkness surrounded by the light from the moon (little that there is) and my dogs.. Lawn is freshly cut. Flowers are peaking. There was a time I was a heap on the couch because sleep was all I could do. I had no energy. If that ever occurs again it will be because of physical illness, never again from the drain of another person. I’m planning a trip to Yellowstone in July and I’m excited and refreshed despite all the travel restrictions. Basically, my energy is back and has finally balanced from exuberant to just right. Time takes time and it’ll be interesting to see 6 or 12 more months.. I am far from where I’d like to be, but I understand why people stay.
Lorelei
Hahahaha…of course I can see your comment; I am omniscient (that’s a joke; I am not really omniscient) and I agree; the random dialogue here is usually very informative. You are doing very well now, so keep up the good work. You are an empath and you are tenacious and in 6 months you will be in an even better position.
Thanks K. I think so too in regard to 6 months. I had a monkey on my back (or two) not helping. They have been phased out. You have aided in the rephrasing (simplicity helps?) of some of the written material at times to allow for moments of clarity. Especially re, topics of children. I hesitate to say much about my kids on here moving further in detail, but they are doing well. Extremely. There are bumps in the road of course.
This star situation is taking everyone’s time and attention away from me
Witch disapproves!
Ha ha.
Haha. I’m here just for you Witch. Back to you…..
Thanks NA.
So I’m stilling working from home and isolating. I finished watching the movie I started last night, “Princess Mononoke” (I recommend it if you like fantasy.)
Now I’m reading my book for my book club daughter of fortune by Isabel Allende.
How was your day?
Witch
Ah, good to hear you are balancing productivity with some pleasure.
Well I WAS slated for a busy day donating thousands of dollars to hundreds of charities (or was it hundreds of dollars to thousands of charities? My maths are bad), but then no one supported a comment I made and I felt disrespected so I thought fuck them and went and spent all the money on a dress for your wedding. That will show all those people that I claim to care about. Glad the spotlight has shifted to it’s rightful place – back to you…
Don’t take it personally NA these beggars are so unappreciative of a noblewoman’s good deeds because they do not have the morals and etiquette like the rest of us. But bless our lord and saviour HG Tudor, for he has found mercy in his heart to welcome those of lowly status despite their uncouth ways.
I see that the dress you bought for my wedding is white…how very fashionably Mid-Range of you.
Not to worry though, because I’ll be in black. I am a unique free spirit after all.
I didn’t read star’s comment either? only yours Witchy. mwah x
Thank you Alexis, you did the right thing x
Such well-articulated points here!! I also wanted to say thanks to those who mentioned the comment Star wrote to me the other day.
I’ve found the schoolyard attack comment HG
“I ask myself how dumb are you , you’ve answered it
Now you’ve resorted to text speak “
What context has the above comment ?? only to insult .
In response to Star.
Kiki
Indeed.
1. “In response to Star”. It was not gratuitous, it was in response. Agreed, it was to insult, but it did not come out of nowhere.
2. There are around 68 comments on this thread, if we exclude what Star has written, say 5 comments, then 1 comment out of 63, was an insult. That is hardly prolific nor is it indicative of a prevailing schoolyard mentality. In the context of 340 000 moderated comments, I doubt there are more than 500 comments which could be labelled as “school yard attacks or insults” , that is 0.0015% of all comments.
Thank you for your input about my comments HG
Looking back yes I was reactive and over the top
My reasons posters saying “future faking” and “ you sound like a narcissist “ in response to Star
I know nothing of Star , he or she could be a lunatic , a decent person , a liar I have no idea and neither do any of us.
It irks me when a poster sends irritating messages then the implication they MUST be a narcissist comes up.
Not necessarily the world is full of annoying attitudes but the label narcissist cannot be slapped on all who annoy or piss us off.
It lessens the true meaning and implications of the term .
Thanks
You are welcome Kiki and I acknowledge your reflection concerning your observations.
The person who made those comments did so based on what they read. They may be right, they may be wrong and they are allowed to assert their opinion.
Similarly, if someone disagrees with that assessment, they too can assert their disagreement to it.
Furthermore you are also entitled to express your displeasure of people using this label for the reasons you have advance. That is fair enough.
I appreciate your constructive reply which is demonstrative of a considered approach and contrasts starkly with that exhibited elsewhere.
Kiki, I have been following the blog for years now. I am always the first to stick up for someone, if I feel they are being attacked. The comments by Star on this thread made me cringe. Today is a new day, but that was pretty bad behavior on her behalf.
Kiki,
I totally understand your concern about using the term narcissist in regard to a poster. I wouldn’t have even mentioned it had there not been a clear and repeated pattern in this discussion. We come here to learn, and I think part of that learning is to be able to recognize these behaviors for what they are. Star may not be a narcissist, and I didn’t actually say she was. I pointed out that her behavior was indicative as such and that troubles me if she is supposedly helping others recover, and it may be a good time to self-reflect. HG, being the expert, could say more definitively if that is the case.
You, on the other hand, do not strike me that way. We may disagree on a few points, but you do not display grandiosity or sling insults. You show self reflection and can acknowledge when you may have overreacted. I do think to judge others for not having left this blog sooner is misguided. People recover at different rates, some stay to pay it forward as FM1T stated so well. It’s great to hear that you have moved on and are doing well, but others are not quite there yet and we should have compassion for them.
Agreed that sometimes the comments to HG are over the top but that could be either they are paying fuel to HG because they are grateful and want to encourage him to continue helping others, or it may be part of a recovery phase and they will eventually let go of that infatuation too when they’ve healed more. Personally I’d rather watch them dote over HG excessively than run back to the narcs that abused them.
I also agree that the tone can get a little aggressive, such as the post you mentioned, but A. that was not without provocation and B. is such a small minority of posts here. The majority of people posting are calmly disagreeing with Star’s statements and maintained composure even after her provocations.
Congrats on finding peace and healing. Let’s hope that everyone here reaches that point some day.
I never believed the book purchase claim. But to dissect it further, if she has a support group with thousands of members and that’s where her claim of thousands of sales coming from, I find it hard to believe that they all automatically buy any book that she tells them to buy. It seems a little like magical thinking to me. Then another thing that doesn’t add up is she said she was going to buy 150 books to start with but she didn’t want to give her hard earned money to someone who insults people so she didn’t make the purchase. So does that mean she was going to give the books for free to her members and not have herself reimbursed? I find that extremely hard to believe.
Anyway, out of curiosity I looked up her support group on FB and although most of the reviews are positive there were some reviews that I thought were sad. One said that she was kicked out of the group and then Star replied to that lady saying that she left on her own and the lady was emotionally adamant that she was kicked. Star also criticized the lady for being submissive and the lady was stressing that she was groomed at that time and didn’t know what was going on. Having several comments from former members stating that they cannot have opinions that are different from Star is very telling and consistent with her behavior here.
Some quotes from the reviews on her business page who complained about Star:
“his group believes only woman are victims of sociopaths but men are victims just as much. When I made that statement I was kicked off, which is totally fine.”
“I was invited to ask questions, one was only answered. Then admin blocked me and I was then summarily kicked out without given a reason. I was always helpful and tried to participate. I really needed the help and support, I felt yet another place kicked me when I was down with no reason given.” Which Star responded with denial and said that the lady left on her own and then blamed the lady by saying to her, ” If your going to be a submissive for someone then its going to involve you being abused no way around it.” And the lady insisted that she didn’t leave on her own and was kicked out and also responded to the accusation of being submissive that she was groomed by the narc and didn’t know what he was doing at that time.
“If your opinion varies from the narcissistic queen you’ll be banned”
“After being removed for sharing my feelings, about why I had already chose to leave, I hope everyone finds healing from their abusers including those who should be helping us.”
There were 34 reviews and I’m not saying that all of them are negative in fact most of them are good but looking at the negative reviews makes me feel that there is a pattern of behavior that blames and shames victims.
Support Forum Fraud.
Nobody gets “booted” from here. It is the comments which are addressed, not the person. I am also clear about what I am and because of my more evolved narcissism and the superior quality of my information, you gain a far better experience here on several levels.
Indeed HG. The Support Forum Fraud does illustrate and explain very well what some of her former members experienced in her group.
“his group believes only woman are victims of sociopaths but men are victims just as much. When I made that statement I was kicked off, which is totally fine.”
??!!!
Tell that to Johnny Depp, Brad Pitt, and Just ‘Arry.
What’s her FB group called?
Never mind found it!
Do I have to be on FB to see this? I’m curious.
You can learn a lot from lurking on bad sites, i.e., Roush-V. Even before learning about PUAhate groups that named this kind of workshop a rip-off, I looked at things like that and thought, “Now I know whom to avoid.”
One writer VICE had this experience, ‘Before I had even begun my spiel, she erupted, “God! You’re the third creepy guy who’s come up to me today saying that you ‘like my energy.’ Fuck off!”‘
Gotta wonder what brilliant advice Ms. Speak-to-the-Manager has.
@violetta, I’m not sure if you have to have an account with Facebook to see the reviews, but try it!
The group is private though.
There’s two FB pages of her group. One is private and one is a business page that has the reviews I copied and pasted. 👍
Yeah I’ve seen the reviews and her replies to them lol.
Unless you’re HG or another greater narcissist sharing information, I don’t see the purpose of “regular” people running narcissist groups and adding to the confusion
Often they are not regular people Witch and therein lies the problem. If they are “regular” I understand your point though.
Yes I understand that most are Mid-Rangers and therefore just as useless to the rest of us:
“Hi ggwwwuuuuyyyyzzz! I’m going to teach you what you should say to the narcissist, don’t forget to subscribe!”
Ha ha brilliant, that amused HG.
“I’m a life coach, motivational speaker, yoga instructor, narc buster. Namaste! I used to spy on my kids until I realised golly! Im behaving just like my mother and now I will share all of my realisations with you gyynnzzz”
Richard: “my ex-girlfriend asked me to wash the dishes and so I had to question myself… am I legally obligated to fulfil her request? Am I morally obligated to fulfil her request? The answer is no! Do not give into codependency!”
Yup, unaware narcs cannot be professional because they are not aware of their behaviors. They can’t control it.
Witch—I wonder if it’s almost officious in nature to arrive as a healer and tell someone out of the gate they are a psycho and a dude in one’s first days on their blog? Maybe give it a few weeks? I generally feel social intuition requires a warm up before cutting to the chase. Maybe it’s a standard empath fault to be so polite before allowing such fertile comments to be expressed?
Yes Lorelei, I didn’t call HG a psycho until I interacted with him for about a year and now I feel classy
Witch—I’m glad you waited awhile to say psycho. You are classy. It’s like telling a girl her butt looks chunky in those jeans. Wait at least until the golden period has ended. When is your wedding? I will buy a dress in the shade of blush if it’s a summer affair. Understated and with a pearl necklace. Simple low heels and a small, not quite ivory clutch. I’ll blow bubbles and drink from a vessel filled with bubbles and delight. The nectar of the Gods.
This was back in the day when there was a lot less commenters on the blog and so HG was able to reply to most of the messages.
And when I was bored and wanted attention I would tease him and I believe one day I called him a psycho. Good times, good times.
2022 and I will replace the content of your vessel with rum and coke
MP, What you have shared here about Star’s readers speaks volumes. More confirming than surprising. Support fraud forum is an apt comparison. I hope they find their way here for real assistance.
FYC—I met a few narcissists in FB groups, I realized eventually.. Before any damage done. But—met a few lovely people and two very close friends for sure. Both are near Vancouver which is a cool city so I now have free accommodations!
I agree FYC. I hope they find healing too. I was tempted to send one of them a message to show this article’s link to her to show Star’s behavior but I decided against it because it will expose my identity. But I am still thinking about it.
MP, I think you are wise not to send the link for these reasons: 1) Star will not change, 2) Star’s followers do not see her behavior for what it is, and therefore will reject an alternate view (just like any CANIPPS or N lieutenant would).
Further, any engagement by HG’s loyal followers would only be giving fuel to Star. Lastly, I would not visit Star’s FB page, but I’d be willing to bet she mentions HG in a particular light and may have used his good works. Therefore, her followers are already free to visit KTN and get the best information available (and if they have done so and did not stay, that tells you something in itself).
In summary, I know you mean well by considering this, MP, but I think in this case, considering all dynamics, it’s better to let this one go. I thank you again for sharing what you found though as it further confirmed the obvious remarks and offered another facet to her profile.
Hello Kiki,
I totally agree with you that these terms shouldn’t be used gratuitously against someone just because we don’t like the person. I do speak up whenever I see something like that happen. Sometimes arguments can get heated and false personal accusations or attacks happen. It has happened to me. I do speak up as well whenever I see something like that happen. I do not want a victim to get re victimized. Victims of narcissistic abuse already went through a lot of personal attacks and insults from the narcissists in their lives. If they come to a place where they believe they are with fellow victims who can understand them only to be accused of being a narcissist by fellow empaths, doesn’t that give some validity to the nasty and untrue things that the narcissists in their lives have already said about them? It can feel like betrayal too. But I had a problem with Star when she went after Ashley and shamed her for her opinion which was totally valid and politely delivered. HG is amazing at defending himself and I don’t often come to his rescue. I sometimes observe him and try to learn from him. But this time I felt that Star was wrong. It is irrelevant if HG happens to be a narcissist and psychopath, we are paying for the information and education he is providing which is superior to that of what empaths provide regarding narcissism.
Thank you MP.
You’re most welcome HG!
Thank you again, Mommypino. 💖 I thought Star’s comment to me was strange because I was friendly when I gave a real-life example of my opinion. This individual sounds like she has quite a narrow-minded outlook, so now it makes sense.
You’re welcome Ashley! I agree with you.
Thank you Mommypino for your post.
Yes I agree with you also.
I did however overstep the mark as I misinterpreted the comments and feel quite embarrassed now.
Lesson learned , in future I’ll make sure I fully read all the thread first and not to fly off with comments that were in hindsight I’ll informed and reactive.
I think my ET might be flaring up a little since the Covid restrictions.
Kiki
Hello Kiki, no need to be embarrassed at all. You had good intentions and you evaluated the information fairly as they were brought to your attention. 💕
With reference to the ‘attacking’ suggestions of Star and Kiki, I have to say I strongly disagree and have seen no evidence of that at all. This is a very safe place to vent and to learn. The blog tackles highly emotive subject matter. It is normal for people at different stages of understanding / recovery to have different reactions and viewpoints regarding articles that are posted. I would challenge you to go through the plethora of articles and comments on this blog and find anything that resembles attacking. You will come up empty handed, apart from this one thread. You have to ask yourself why that might be.
Attack was probably the wrong choice of word
I have no idea what STAR is about here but sometimes I feel it’s best to just let a poster maybe cool off and let it go.
No one is perfect we all have our moments things can misconstrued easily.
Kiki
Hello Kiki, thank you for acknowledging that attack was probably the wrong choice of word.
Yes, there may be merit in letting a poster cool off, I agree.
In this instance Star made a comment about preferring it when I did not profit from abuse. I responded. Other readers responded. Nobody responded in an aggressive manner.
5 days later Star returned with an aggressive response which was transparent. Time to cool off had passed but the response demonstrates that cooling off was ineffective.
I recognise some people first appear here and they are raw. They may be vociferous in their comments however they soon realise the value of the work and there is no enemy here. They are different and identifiable from the behaviour of certain others.
I appreciate your considered response.
I’ll be adding “vociferous” to my list of HG words.
I just think its always important to ask questions for clarification and not jump to conclusions. It’s important to keep in mind that it is so easy to misinterpret another person via text. I completely see both sides; however everyone is being very reactive. It’s just not productive and is leading everyone to be so combative.
I feel embarrassed for Star.
Hahahaha. Too funny Violetta!
Panties, not wearing panties is way sexier than not wearing knickers. Say it again, but this time, purrrr when you say it. ( yes it was a french ‘r’ for info) 😉
I hate the word “panties.” “Underpants” and “knicks” are utilitarian, but panties is like some yacht girl using babytalk as if it would turn her sleazy, billionaire-DNA’d Victoria’s Secret “faux silk” synthetic skivs into something white cotton with little pink rosebuds that a 5-year-old would wear.
Oh God! Ok, second thoughts stick with knickers then lol.
As an aside, I had to wear these vile grey belly warmers in school under my vile maroon uniform. Uniform code, presumably in case my skirt blew up in the wind, god knows. Anyway, my mum called them my bullet proofs. Maybe bullet proofs would be better. Too much information? Probably.
There is definitely a disturbance in the force on this thread!
As if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly replaced with squalks and batsqueaks.
Hahahahaha….that sums it up quite nicely! Thanks for the laugh Violetta!
I paid a plumber today $100 for some work. (It was way less than it was supposed to be—but it was $100 for a half hour job) Maybe I need to be a plumber. Shit. Oops no.
I am not one to defend a narc and HG would certainly be the first to tell me he doesn’t need defending but if you don’t want to pay then don’t. There is plenty of free stuff here. OR you could go visit Sam…I believe all his stuff is free. And Sam will give you exactly what you pay for…nothing worth any thing
i liked it better when you didnt profit from being an abuser.
Ah so it’s fine to access my material for free but when I apply a fee for my expertise all of a sudden you adopt the moral high ground. What you really mean is ‘ give me your expertise for free’.
Don’t get your panties in a twist jesus, it was just a comment. Believe it or not what i was saying was that i wish i could see the stories that are for hidden. And maybe you could tell your flying monkey to get off my back. They sound ignorant or something. I didnt comment to be attacked, so thanks for what you do show and no thanks not a fan of sam.
Panties are smooth and untwisted.
Your second sentence does not make sense.
No flying monkeys, although I was anticipating your reply containing that observation (do see The Truth About Flying Monkeys in The Knowledge Vault). Do understand that if you make a comment, people may disagree with it. Nobody disagreed with you in an ad hominem manner, they pointed out why they disagreed. To claim you have been “attacked” is incorrect.
These are attacks
“Who do you fucking think you are coming on my blog with your idiotic hypocritical views. Do me a favour and get fucked.”
“Nobody is interested in your view Star, you are a clown for criticising HG.”
What you received were people expressing the views, just as you did, but theirs did not accord with yours therefore you deem them to be attacks, they are not. Similarly, I point out politely that your comments are incorrect and you then assume I have my panties in a twist. Wrong again.
look again dude. your wrong.
No. I am correct.
HG, This happens repeatedly. Someone wants your work for free. In the next breath, they insult and disparage you. (Clearly they do not understand the concept of fuel.) They then go on to criticize those who support you and your work and your right to fair and very reasonable compensation. They call your supporters flying monkeys and try to insult them. This seems an odd and entitled POV and the approach is lacking in empathy. Even if empathy is suppressed by painful circumstances, why would any empath go to ugly and rude? I do not understand this type of behavior. I did not comment on this one as I have in the past, but you know I agree with all supporters of you that value your work. Please enlighten us on why this occurs so frequently. I am sure new readers that happen upon the blog wonder why such hostility exists.
Quite simply FYC, an empath would not behave like this.
Would this be a good time to try out ‘hello mate’ from the quiz? 😜
Do panties ever really twist? Seriously
Are you still talking?? I came here to find material for my group, i have thousands of members And wanted a psychos view. Yes psycho, you are acting like i hurt your damn feelings but we know that isnt what you will address, instead you use put downs and word salad. Typical. Personally i could care less about your opinion of me sorry but to me you are irrelevant. I came to purchase a large number of your books for my clients, but with your lack of professional behavior , your rude comments and lack of salesmanship i will be taking my cash elsewhere. You will not profit off being rude to me. Once again the narcissist bites off his nose to spite his face. Just because you cant keep your nastiness to yourself to sell 150 copies of your book to start. Try being professional if you want sales next time. Have a nice day. And ps, just because I said i wished your info was free, that was because i knew i was going to be buying over 100 copies and spending a ton of money,, but you had to comment like a dick and take it to a whole different level, so.. forget it im not supporting a rude ego maniac who enjoys destroying people for fun.
What a load of rubbish. You had no intention of making any such purchase. You are bandying this around in order to provoke. You arrived commenting about “I preferred it when you did not profit from your abuse” and then you suggest you were going to buy over a hundred copies of my work, so either
1. You are a hypocrite , or
2. You are lying when you suggest you were going to make the purchase.
If I am irrelevant,
1. Why comment on the blog to begin with?
2. Why (apparently) consider making a purchase of my work
3. Why feel the need to keep commenting?
There was no lack of professionalism or being rude. Look at your own behaviour and how you were simply corrected, it is that simple. Look again at the content of my replies to you and the content of your comments to me and other readers. Note the difference?
Cheerio.
Whos the clown? Who just lost thousands in sales? Keep the insults coming.
Do tell me who because it was not me? How interesting, you have access to my sales records, aren’t you talented?
Star,
Your vitriolic approach with HG and his commenters is more reflective of you, not HG or his commenters. I am guessing you were hurt or damaged by another and this blog provides you a safe place in which you can hurl your insults, anger and future faking and shaming. I sincerely hope you can come to terms with what ever is driving your spiteful behavior.
Sincerely,
No one’s Victim
Star, let me get this straight.
You came here to buy “thousands of books” and yet your comment was that you liked it better when he didn’t profit. You do know that buying is books is what makes HG profit, right?
You also don’t care of his opinion of you, and yet here you are. Clearly something got your goat because you’re still responding to him, days later.
“To me you are irrelevant” and yet you want HG’s view. Why would you want the view of someone who is irrelevant?
You claim HG is using “put downs and word salad” and yet the only such talk in this thread appears to be coming from you.
Are you sure you’ve got yourself worked out? You sound like a narcissist yourself to me. Maybe you could benefit from reading more of HG’s work instead of just coming here to pick a fight with him. I feel for your ‘thousands of members’ if this is how you engage with people.
You’re quite mistaken, Star. HG had my knicks in a twist. So I stopped wearing them. Problem solved.
Your knicks?
Whoaaa…
This escalated real fast.
Did this all pop off because Star said she doesn’t like HG profiting from being an abuser?
I could see that comment being perceived by a narcissist as being critical and judgmental.
I didn’t see anything about her asking about getting things for free. Maybe I’m missing a piece here?
If star did directly say something about wishing HG’s material for free I could understand how it could be perceived as insulting (from the narc perspective) because HG provides a unique perspective. So…….. therefore asking to borrow his brain for free from could be seen from his perspective as devaluing what he has to offer and he also might perceive you as being entitled.
Star could have wished it was free because of financial reasons and it was not meant to be taken in this way…or suggest that HG be a doo-gooder and basically lend his brain out to the world for free or she totally could have meant it the way it was interpreted?
I think everyone needs to take a step back for a second before we attack eachother.
1. The individual arrives on the blog and immediately commences with the “profit” comment. Perfectly entitled to make the observation as I am perfectly entitled to respond to it, as I did, in a straight forward manner, pointing out what the issue really was.
2. Individual comments with regard to “victim status”, again entitled to do so as are other readers to respond to it, disagreeing.
3. Individual disappears for 5 days and returns with insulting, hypocritical and false comments.
The only person “attacking” is the individual who made the original comment. It is a dynamic which has been seen several times and tells its own story.
I think the large purchase is a future fake. “I’m gonna buy you a ring HG!”
Dr. HQ,
I do think it the tone of Star’s initial post was a bit confrontational. It seems like there would be no way to make such a statement to a narcissist and then be surprised when he responds to it as criticism. Maybe there’s a way to interpret that as not condescending, but I am having trouble seeing it myself and I’m an empath.
HG responded in pretty typical HG fashion. I’m sure he gets tired of people coming to the comments to complain about him charging for his work. But his comment didn’t read as an attack to me so much as a response to criticism. And I thought the other commenters were pretty polite. Numerous, because there are a lot of people here that feel HG has improved their lives. Perhaps it was the number of them Star perceived as an attack on her.
What bothered me was seeing terms like “psycho”, “clown”, “ignorant”, “flying monkeys” being thrown about by Star, and the way she called out Ashley for worshipping HG for calling him an expert. She’s trying to elicit a negative response. Combined with some of the inflated statements to show how important she is, and her hypocritical statements of claiming to have come here to buy thousands of books even though she condemns HG for selling them. That’s very concerning behavior from someone who claims to be helping victims of abuse.
That is just my interpretation of the situation.
Kiki, if you are reading this response and that of Fox, compare what Fox has written to the insults thrown around by Fox. Therein lies the difference between a constructive comment and an attack. Well stated, Fox.
As much as I greatly appreciate HGs work and the help he gave .I have to agree.One of the reasons I left here (apart from totally curing myself of the narc , thanks HG ,is because of the attacks posters make on others for expressing an opinion
It’s not healthy.
You may not like someone’s perspective but there is no need to be so self righteous and obnoxious about it.
Some of you speak of HG like he is a REAL boyfriend or something, it’s kind of strange looking back in again after not coming here in a year .I pick one post and here it is again , like a nasty schoolyard .That theme has run here since the start.Surely some of here must be cured by now .
Why are you even still stuck in narcissist dissection , truly LISTEN to HG and you would be off living your life by now.
Star this goes on a lot I’m afraid
There I’ve expressed my opinion .
Kiki, thank you for your view and it will be constructive to have some context.
1. This labelling of “attacks” when somebody expresses their view is inaccurate. I expressed this forensically and in detail to Mommypino recently and she had the presence of mind and open-mindedness to reflect and she recognised that her use of “attacks” was misplaced. I invite you to do the same.
2. If you express a view and somebody else disagrees with you in a constructive and polite manner, it is not an attack, it is a countering opinion. Why should you be allowed to express YOUR opinion and others not be allowed to? Why should YOU be allowed to express your opinion and when somebody disagrees with you, it is labelled an “attack”.
3. “This goes on a lot” – no, it does not. There are over 340 000 moderated comments on this blog and not even 1% of that number would contain robust exchanges.
4. Please provide an example our two of somebody responding in an obnoxious or self-righteous manner.
5. The exchange on this particular thread is nothing like a nasty schoolyard. Star´s comments were hypocritical, ill-founded and contrast the language she used to that of those who responded. Notice anything?
My reply to you is measured, considered and lacks aggression, ad hominem language or profanity. Do you consider this response an attack?
I am pleased my work has assisted you and appreciate the compliment in that regard.
Kiki
You wrote of self righteous and obnoxious comments on the blog, I agree with you. Apparently you have missed the previous comments written on this thread by Star?! She is downright rude and obnoxious! If you don’t think calling someone rude, ignorant, and a clown is not rude and obnoxious perhaps you should read all of Stars comments again?
You ask why some of us who have been here a long time are still here? I can give you a few answers to perhaps help you out with that question!
1. Some people on here have been abused physically, mentally, and sexually there whole lives! They have suffered with a narcissist in there life day in and day out for years! HG cannot help in a few months what some of us have lived with forever. It simply takes some people longer then others.
2. Why are we still here? Why did you come back? Kiki that was not meant to be mean in any way, it was just a question. Seems to me that we have the right to stay or leave as we want. I can still live my life and interact on the blog.
3. Some of us have been here since the start of the blog and would simply like to see HG succeed in his grand design.
4. Some of us stay to simply pay it forward! Remember when you first came to this special place? It wasn’t just HG that helped and supported you Kiki, it was some of us who have been here a long time, we are simply trying to give back something that was given to us, support from a group of people that understands what it is like to be a victim of a narcissist.
5. This place is not like a nasty school yard! What happens here is what happens everywhere, people simply remember all of the bad and none of the good!
6. You know HG did not attack Star! HG was not the one calling Star names and using foul language, it was the other way around.
I wish you well Kiki.
DHQ, I felt your attempt to defend one party (Star) with your own perspective and well-meaning intent deserves a closer look, particularly because this is a reoccurring theme. In general, I whole-heartedly support your later statement that we should ask questions before jumping to conclusions. Unfortunately, I did not see you taking your own advice. You did not ask Star for clarification. You did not ask other commenters for further clarification. You actually did the same thing we all do on the blog, you gave your opinion. I encourage all opinions, but I was troubled by yours general bias and broad generalization. You say you could “see a “narcissist” reacting to Star’s comment as critical and judgmental”, yet you do not extend that understanding toward non-narcissists. The greater body of readers here are not narcissists. We may disagree at times, but this is no cause to infer or claim the person you disagree with is a narcissist simply by virtue of the fact that you disagree on a POV or feel defensive. I find this inference and labeling insensitive at best and inappropriate. Most of us here have been hurt by genuine narcissists in our lives. Further, if you are truly considering all sides, you would know that HG has also been a recipient of significant child abuse. Did you consider any of this?
I have been a reader for more than 2.5 years and I am not a narcissist. I have been helped by HG significantly. Over time, this type of comment made by Star surfaces with regularity. Many people feel entitled to receive HG’s products, information, and counsel for free and simultaneously feel entitled to insult HG, not because he has been abusive toward them, but because they are not getting what they want immediately for free. People here do not object to readers that cannot afford to pay for HG’s counsel (in fact were are a supportive, empathetic group). What they object to (speaking for myself and I will assume others as well) is the entitlement and petty insults that follow when many readers make reasonable observations that HG’s work comes at a significant cost to him personally. Some of us regularly donate to the Angel Assistance Fund (AAF) that affords access to HG for FREE. I am curious, do you think individuals with NPD or APD do not deserve to receive compensation for work they perform?
Let’s, suppose Star’s comment was misconstrued and she simply meant to say she sees HG as an abuser and feels he should not profit from his work. Has HG abused her? No. Is Star taking a stand for his former intimate partners? No. Is Star supportive of other non-narcissists in her comments? No. Does she have a bias towards people who have NPD and APD? Perhaps. I doubt very much if she had said, “HG you are a NPD/APD abuser and I think that is wrong,” that HG would mind and neither would his readers. Clearly, this was not her primary issue, since she claims she came here to buy thousand of dollars of HG’s books (yet made no purchase).
My only concern with your comments is that I would hope you would also ask questions and really try to see all sides. HG is not abusing anyone on the blog. Instead, he donates a very significant amount of his free time (he has a full-time career as well), offers significant discounts on excellent quality products, he created the AAF by popular demand, and moderates hundreds of thousands of comments (even the insulting ones) for FREE. I do not know even an empath that does the same for free, and yet HG is NPD/APD. Pretty remarkable. Further, HG is employing a new dynamic to his life. Should we not support that effort? It troubles me not when people vent their own feelings. It troubles me when it becomes okay to label others and normalize biased judgement broadly. I would suggest we judge the actions of another, not their label. This is done far too often in to many areas and we need not add a new one! When we feel mistreated, it is time to opt out, not react in snap judgements. I predict you would generally agree with this. I just felt the need to express this clarification. If you read this long response, I appreciate your consideration and thank you.
FYC,
I get the impression you have misjudged me and my position on matters. I was entertaining other perspectives. I didn’t entertain every single one because that’s tiresome and quite frankly I thought that star would explain when I wrote what I wrote. I did not directly ask but I figured it would lead to people openly discussing interpretations and different perceptions.
I absolutely believe people should be compensated for their services. I see things from all perspectives and I didn’t take a side in the matter and acknowledged that I could be missing information. I also understand that many factors contribute to someone’s behavior.
I get the impression you also don’t know my view on Narcissist’s, sociopaths, and psychopaths.
I haven’t said that HG has abused people on the blog. I haven’t said he hasn’t done positive things. I haven’t said that people are simply their label. I can see how you might have gotten that from what I said; however that’s not what I believe. I happen to be very supportive of HG. I can speak on his behavior towards me and he has been kind, entertaining, supportive and enlightening.
Back to this label thing …
(This section has nothing to do with HG this is my own view on labels)
People are more thn their label; however labels help us categorize clusters of behaviors/symptoms etc so we have a better understanding of what we are dealing with and they give implications for appropriate treatment in my field. There are pros and cons to labels. I see both sides of that argument as well. Now, I am not about to note each pro and con but I do want to shine a light on something people often overlook – just because it’s an important point: people often are scared of labels when they can’t face their own behaviors. Sometimes the label is so accurate and encompasses so many of their behaviors – to hear the label makes them have to face it – so they reject labels. I will stress this is not the only perception I see re the whole label argument but I wanted to note that particular one. An example of this is a child who exhibits symptoms of being on the autism spectrum. Many parents have difficulty accepting this label and are in denial – it is only until they need services reallllllllll bad and shit hits the fan they are willing to accept the label that accurately summarizes the cluster of behaviors and what not that their kid exhibits. My point is that yes people are more than their labels but labels serve a purpose in many ways too so I wouldn’t totally poo poo labels in my opinion. If I make a judgement re someone I don’t just look at their label or even just their behavior I look at the intent that drives the behavior. I look at patterns as well. I look at any outside factors that could be contributing to behavior. I also understand that positive things can come from selfish motives.
I have been a victim of stereotypes due to labels so I get that perspective completely but I can’t ignore that labels serve for categorization and that’s very helpful at times. People just have to remember people are more than a label so they don’t fall into like stereotyping and what not.
Wow, my response was everywhere lol – your post was insanely long. I just wanted to respond. Again, I don’t think you have a very accurate perception of me and what not so I attempted to clarify some of it. 🤷🏻♀️
Kiki, I’ve been gone over 3 years, and gotta say, I’ve missed the school yard fights! Gosh, back in our day, it used to get real rowdy. We all jumped in. Lots of fun. And we dusted off and made up and were friends again. Ah, Good ol days.
Not entirely accurate, you have been reading in between times and you commented in January 2018 and again in December 2018, so it has not been a 3 year hiatus.
Someone was posting with my surname during that time so I had to make a come back and set the record straight 😂
yes that’s exactly whats up. if he doesn’t like your comment he targets you. just like he has done here. typical, and his monkeys follow in suit. get this straight I DID NOT ASK FOR ANYTHING FREE PERIOD> I came here to buy books for my group. And i was insulted for saying i wished his books were free, sorry i wished i didn’t have to spend all my money but nobody asked for anything free, i find that insulting. he jumped to a conclusion before the facts were in. his loss.
Your behaviour contradicts you, as had been pointed out to you several times. If you came to buy books why not state so at the outset, you did not, why was that, because you had not intention of doing so. You will find that Dr HQ was giving you the benefit of the doubt because she had not read everything that you had written previously, note her reference to having missed information.
quit talking dude.
Back again. As predicted.
This is my blog, therefore I write as much as I wish, but nice try.
Will you remain silent this time or am I making you type those words? Guess it shows just how powerful I am, I can reach through the internet and make you keep writing!
lol ok , powerful, you hide behind a computer, that does not make you powerful. carry on though by all means .
Back again.
It appears my comment was lost on you given your response. Unsurprising.
Can you resist the urge to reply? You are not doing very well so far or am I continuing to use my apparently not so powerful means to compel you to keep replying?
Star
Oh dear. Its come to this.
I’ll let you into a few ‘sneaky peaks’ into my ‘Worldview’.
Once, a not so ‘wise man (an MMC in point of fact buts lets not throw the baby out with the bathwater’) stated to me, ‘Always beware of Avatar names descriptors.’
Star, Star, Star.
(Psst! That’s an an aspect of rhetoric and constructing a logical argument. Clever eh?).
Tell you what I’ve seen.
I’ve seen a very valued NS regular whom, like other Empaths, is attempting to construct a fair and balanced argument. Well done that woman!
I look at you and am grasping for words. Truly am.
I’m just wondering if you were on fire, would I piss on you?
I need to check with my Overlords. Back in a sec.
Star:
“if he doesn’t like your comment he targets you. just like he has done here.”
This has not been my experience. If HG doesn’t agree with something I have said, he will often point out the reasons he disagrees, or explain where I have misinterpreted his work and what to read to clarify the issue. Sometimes, he will not take a side, and just lets readers debate a point.
If he thinks a comment is just irrelevant, he doesn’t post it at all. He’s pretty lenient that way, but I have a warped sense of humor, and not everything goes through.
Correct.
Kiki:
Much of my abuse was historic. I am still learning about the ways in which childhood experiences made me vulnerable to relationships with Narcissists as an adult.
In addition, I’m learning from other readers what could’ve happened if I’d got my wish and married one of the Narcissists I thought I loved. The things Narcissists do to their own children are a pretty good illustration of St. Teresa of Avila’s statement that more tears are caused by answered prayers than by unanswered prayers.
Violetta your wisdom is helpful for my Emotional Thinking, for giving me hope. The quote about unanswered prayers. Thank you!!!
Violetta commented: The things Narcissists do to their own children are a pretty good illustration of St. Teresa of Avila’s statement that more tears are caused by answered prayers than by unanswered prayers.
Those are powerful words. I agree with Whitney, reading that statement really helps. Thank you for posting it, Violetta.
Star, you didn’t just say ‘I wish your books were free.’ You actually said ‘I liked it better when you didn’t profit from being an abuser.’ Let’s be honest here. That’s a very different tone to take. One designed to provoke a response.
I think you have clearly stated your point of view. If you don’t wish to hear the responses from HG and the readers of his blog, you are in control here. Simply click on ‘unsubscribe’ at the bottom of the page. Two seconds needed and job done. No more comments to read or respond to. Easy.
If you have no intention of buying material for your group, and see no value in the comments of HG and the readers of the blog, Surely the sensible thing would be simply to unsubscribe would it not?
He’s an expert .. any expert needs/deserves to be paid for certain services. There is time put into the work. My aunt is very successful stock broker & she does so much stuff for free. She is WAY too nice. Hours of work she puts in for people, doesn’t charge a thing despite how much she hates it. This work can be for nothing. Nothing can come from it at times. Absolutely maddening. Why should someone do everything for free? Lol I would not recommend it to anyone!
He is a narcissist and worshipping him makes you look like a victim.
Well Star, good thing your opinion means nothing to me. I’ll worship him all I want. 😌 Haha but seriously, no one was rude to you. You’re snippy & projecting it onto others. Maybe you have a chip on your shoulder? There’s no need to be snippy to random people on the internet. There is no reason to have a negative attitude if you really came here to learn but it appears you didn’t.
“He is a narcissist and worshipping him makes you look like a victim.”
Okay. Since we’re doing assessments…
Claiming you have thousands of members that you would deny premium information (that is valued – not worshipped btw) because you got called out on your behaviour, makes you look like an idiot. Also your math is poor.
NA:
“premium information (that is valued – not worshipped btw)”
Well, I do have that tasteful shrine in my living room–oh wait, that’s Neil Diamond. (I got the same hate mail form letter Dave Barry did after he criticized Diamond’s lyrics, the one beginning, “Dear Pukenose….”)
Star, I don’t understand why you are here. If you are not a fan of HG then don’t come here. I never go to other sites that I disagree with and tell them off. What do you think you are going to accomplish with this. I normally give benefits of doubt with critical posts from victims but you are not here as a victim seeking for answers. You are here as a coach or something and you came here with a very superior attitude. Your response to Ashley shows that you already have prejudice over the readers here. You’re not here for a respectful dialogue; you’re here to criticize.
There’s still plenty of free material out there, both on the blog and on YouTube. Whatever you think of HG, stupid he is not. He knows that when people recognize the merit in the free stuff they are more likely to consider purchasing. We are not buying a pig in a poke.
Where do u see me calling anyone stupid??
Star
Ahh there we go. Reading your comments with intrest.
Didn’t take long, did it? B 4 U resorted to txt spk?
I ask myself, how actually dumb are you but you’ve provided the answer. In spades.
Care to tangle? You prolly are thinking, should I? But you will.Your ego will demand it.
So go for it lovely. I’m all ears x
oi that goff, goes puts makeup on and worship the devil init?
I iz trying me Julie. But you iz offend me. Disrespected The Micra. I can forgive ifs you apologise.
The all will be gud.
Oi she startin, she startin, she spark ya’out cold! LEG IT!!!
Me main sis Vi
She is bin disrespectful. I’d like to leg it bit me Micra iz out of juice.
Whut do we do now?
Unfortunately, I iz recently gone on the dole…One time when me was high, me sold me car for like 24 chicken McNuggets. ‘ere, dat bruvv be blingin’…
“‘ere ya mate, What it is is… Me brother’s in prison and I’ve just come out meself and erm… giv us twenty pee ya mosha–eyaaaa, ya brushed ya teef?”
Oi, he’s sketchin’ it, well waffle munter.
Star, would you expect anyone else to provide you with expert advice for free? Your doctor (if in USA), your lawyer, psychiatrist, therapist, plumber, electrician? I hugely doubt it or how would anyone make a living? May I ask what you do for work/profession and do you do this for free?
Alexis—this is a funny little slice of the earth though isn’t it? HG does profit from a rather unusual expertise.. It is quite a niche. I will say—some of the (for example) $30 material has been much more valuable than the woman who tapped on my knees. (Don’t even ask) Despite what I think of HG, his work in the knowledge vault is excellent. I have a reddit account that I get some of the dumbest alerts from in regard to narcissism. I can’t even recall what all genres of interest I’m logged into, but the one narcissism “group” is idiotic. They don’t know they say things that don’t make total sense, not their fault. I’ve only met one person that has been able to somehow frame an incredible and accurate portal of narcissism outside of Narcsite. In fact, he told me he was quite narcissistic but lacking the casual cruelty element. He’d never read HG’s work. He’s very bright, I’m not sure how he was able to piece it together so well without a “didactic framework” like HG developed. We were going to meet up in NYC in March but I had to cancel my flight because I couldn’t leave the country. Anyway, the framework here is genius and allows the ability for us to put the puzzles together. I swear—I have never felt dumber than here. It’s been so difficult to understand.
You don’t know what you are talking about. I had every intention of making a very large purchase so who are you talking to??
Star, just to point out the obvious: If you had planned on making a large purchase of books, you would have done so without comment, or with a thanks for HG’s materials. Instead you stated that you did not like HG profiting from his work and you made no purchase. Then five days later, you claim you had “planned” on making a large purchase. Ridiculous. Your time to credibly make that assertion expired on May 15.
Precisely. The assertion was flimsily transparent.
You dont know me very well do you. I dont give my hard earned money to people who feel the need to insult others. I find it a waste of my time. I used to at least respect your writing, not anymore.
The interesting thing is Star, I did not insult you. You insulted me. Furthermore, several people have constructively and politely pointed out the hypocrisy and transparency of what you have written and you have just ignored that. What if you had read it, considered it and then realised that you were incorrect and admitted as such? There would be no shame in doing so, rather it would demonstrate a laudable trait. Instead, you return with repeated insults towards someone who apparently you deem “irrelevant”, yet back you come.
It all is entirely demonstrative.
Oh and I do know you. I know more about you than you realise.
The point has been demonstrated and needs no further expansion.
LOL you think I insulted you? how? by saying i wish your books were free?? that was a thought ya know, thinking out loud how is that insulting you? i think you need to rethink that.
And just because your stalking me doesn’t mean you know me. I would stop coming here if you stop directing your comments at me. if you ask me something i will respond. I have unsubscribed to all your crap but it keeps showing up in my email. So if you want me to stop talking stop writing my name. And the reason i don’t respond to your friends?? because I could care less about what they think of me. what they write about me is none of my business.
1. Your insults are plain to see and repeated. Just re-read what you have written.
2. No, I am not stalking you. Other than serving as an example of a particular type of behaviour, I have no interest in you. Others have brought information about your conduct to my attention. Notice, it is you who has come to my blog, it is you that keeps coming back. It is you that arrived and behaved in an impolite fashion.
3. “I would stop coming here if you stop directing your comments at me” “So if you want me to stop talking stop writing my name.” Thank you for another example. Notice how you completely abrogate responsibility and accountability for your own actions. You can stop yourself from coming here, can´t you? Maybe you cannot and therefore you have to blame me for “making” you return to a place where you continue to engage with someone you have referred to as “irrelevant” and a provider of “all your crap” (which apparently you were going to buy in the hundreds). Do keep on digging.
4. “And the reason I don’t respond to your friends” (I think you mean readers) “because I could care less about what they think of me”. It is “couldn’t care less” and actually you do care because you have been insulting towards other readers and continue to do so.
You have repeatedly demonstrated a range of indicative behaviours and continue to do so. You have failed to take on board comments which have been made constructively towards you. Let’s see if you manage to resist that urge to comment again.
Star,
To be fair he has always technically profited from being an abuser (really let that marinate). It really depends on the way you look at it. One person could say he’s a savior and another could say he’s an abuser. He abuses people to meet his own needs and is content with it. Nothing has really changed.
Why can’t he be both? Philosophically this brings us back to good and evil – what is right and wrong – good and bad. Basically it’s all relative…and he may do things for selfish reasons but if other people benefit then this selfishness has contributed positively to society as a whole. All I’m saying is everyone is entitled to their feelings, opinion, and perspective. It’s always interesting when you take a step back and see it all from every angle – from all perspectives.
Doc, I marinated on your words… I agree. You make a lot of sense. I have to say, your words had me thinking of his perspective. despite narcs being very sensitive to criticism, he can take it quite well on this blog. It can’t be easy to always feel attacked.
It really does not trouble me, but thank you. I am only concerned to address inaccuracy and point out certain behaviours for the continuing use and example of the majority of sensible and constructive readers.
Star, you mentioned in the Victim or Volunteer article that you empower women who are victims. Here you mentioned that you have ‘clients’ and a group that has thousands of members. Do you provide all of that to them for free? You said that you were planning on purchasing books for your clients, do you charge them the same price that you paid for the books or do you add some mark up for being able to find those materials and provide those for them? Is this something that you do altruistically and if so how much time do you devote to empowering women for free?
I understand we all want free things that have value but we have to accept that most things with value come with a price. And part of being empowered is being able to understand and accept that.