The Dirty Empath : Relationship Breaker



The Empath. Regarded as a paragon of virtue with those traits of honesty, decency, compassion, love devotee, moral compass and so on. All of which make the empath and their fuel output tempting prey for us. Yet within these virtuous empathic traits sit other traits, narcissistic traits.

There are four schools of empath (Standard, Super, Co-Dependent and Contagion) . Layered on to these schools are the empathic cadres (such as Magnet, Carrier and Geyser).

Each empath within the relevant school has both empathic and narcissistic traits. Some will have a small number of strong empathic traits with few narcissistic traits which are low in strength. Some will have many empathic traits which are moderate in strength and have few or numerous narcissistic traits which are all very low in strength. Some will have many empathic traits which are strong and numerous narcissistic traits which are moderate or even quite strong. The key consideration is that, in effect, the empathic traits keep the narcissistic ones ‘in check’ and thus the empathic individuals behaves in a way which is empathic with other people.

There are however two main instances when the narcissistic traits come to the fore. The first is through The Empathic Supernova which is when the empathic traits become ‘dialled down’ or eroded for a temporary time and thus the narcissistic traits come to the fore. The second instance is a permanent state of affairs and this is the cadre of the Dirty Empath. The individual is empathic, of that there is no doubt, they have those empathic traits, they also have narcissistic traits too, however one of those narcissistic traits remains strong and prominent throughout and sits alongside the fewer, weaker narcissistic traits and the various empathic traits of varying strength. This does not mean this person is a narcissist, not at all. It does not mean that this person is not an empath. What it means is that they are an empath but there is one (sometimes there might be more) narcissistic trait which ‘dirties’ their empathic status. Think of the empath coloured white with a black streak running through them. The DE is the class of empath and there are various Dirty Empath streaks.

One of the dirty streaks which runs through the Dirty Empath is that of Marriage Breaker (or Intimate Relationship Breaker). This streak is based on the narcissistic trait of selfishness.

This situation arises where the DE becomes involved with somebody who is already in another relationship. The DE is single. The other person is not. There are those empaths who would never have a relationship with someone who is already committed to another. The level of refusal varies from those who might engage with someone who is dating other people but would not if they are in a steady relationship and not at all with someone who is living with another person and is/or married, through to those who refuse to countenance any romantic interaction with someone who is engaging with other people, at any level.

The Dirty Empath will not actively seek out a romantic relationship with someone who is already married. If the DE knows somebody is in a relationship, they will not pursue that person as that offends the empathic traits of the empath. The narcissistic trait of selfishness is not so strong as to override the empathic traits and cause the DE to want to pursue and engage in a relationship with someone who is already taken, committed to somebody else and so forth. Such an act is the preserve of someone who is a normal (even then it remains unlikely) and is more likely the response of someone who is narcissistic (not an empath and not empathic) or a narcissist.

Accordingly, a Dirty Empath will not target, pursue and engage with a person who is already in a romantic relationship.

That point made, what are the circumstances which give rise to the Dirty Empath Marriage Breaker? There are three.

The common thread where the Dirty Empath Marriage Breaker (“DEMB”) arises is where the DEMB is targeted by the other person. The person will be highly narcissistic or more usually, this person will be one of our kind.

Addressing the three circumstances :-

The Ivory Response

The DEMB is seduced by the Other Person (“OP”). They do not do the seducing. The OP does not tell the DEMB that they are in a relationship and if the OP is (and most likely will be) a narcissist, the DEMB will be the Candidate IPSS or Shelf IPSS. The DEMB may well be strung along in this fashion, oblivious to the fact that the OP is in a relationship, for some time. They may have suspicions but as ever, the OP will use plausible deniability to assuage those concerns. In the usual style of the seduction of the golden period, the DEMB will be taken in and engage romantically with the OP.

You may be thinking that since the DEMB does not know the OP is in a relationship, was not the pursuer and has been seduced, is it not somewhat harsh to describe them as a DEMB? Possibly, but the fact remains that they are romantically entangled with another person who is in a relationship and thus that comes within the umbrella of DEMB.

However, there comes a point where the DEMB finds out that the OP is already in a relationship. This may happen whilst the seduction is ongoing, it may (more likely) occur when there is devaluation or during a period of being placed on the shelf. The DEMB having learned of this will not immediately walk away from the OP. They will, in accordance with their status as a truth seeker want to gain answers from the OP. The relationship will continue. The DEMB will also make it his or her mission to tell the spouse or partner of the OP what has been happening, thus they earn the epitaph of Marriage (Relationship) Breaker or at the very least, disruptor.

The DEMB will fail to get adequate answers from the OP. The DEMB will not however just retreat, upset and distraught at having ‘been played’ and lied to. This is where the DEMB’s selfish trait flares up. Their moral indignation at their situation must be attended to. They will not withdraw and allow the OP and his or her partner to mend matters and patch things up. No, the DEMB will :-

  1. Ensure the OP’s partner knows what has happened in detail and will encourage them to walk away from the OP;
  2. Ensure other people know about the OP’s behaviour;
  3. Ensure the OP is told precisely what a low-life, cheating bastard he or she is.

Once 1,2 and 3 have been achieved, the DEMB then walks away from the carnage caused and endeavours to remain out of the hoovering clutches of the OP, the OP now desperate to find a new IPPS since in all likelihood the actions of the DEMB have caused the narcissist OP to lose his existing IPPS and be looking at a fuel crisis.

Accordingly, the DEMB is not whiter than white because (unwittingly) they engaged in a relationship with an attached OP. They cause carnage through their response to learning of the cheating behaviour of the OP towards themselves and the OP’s IPPS (and possibly other IPSSs). They are not completely blackened however as their response has sought to achieve some good, albeit for selfish reasons. The DEMB walks away from the OP (and tries to stay away) and accordingly the response arrived is off-white, hence ivory.

The Point of No Return

Similar to the above, the DEMB does not know that the OP Narcissist is attached to someone else. The DEMB is pursued, seduced and falls for the OP. At some juncture, the DEMB later learns that the OP is with somebody else. This could be during seduction, when being placed on the shelf or through devaluation.

The response is not one of ivory however.

Instead, the DEMB has reached The Point of No Return. Such is their addiction to the OP Narcissist, such is their desire to keep that person as their own and ‘beat’ the OP’s partner, the DEMB’s narcissistic trait of selfishness rises to the fore, overriding the empathic traits and causing the DEMB to fight for the OP.

He or she will do whatever they can to maximise their chances of being retained by the OP over the OP’s Partner. The combination of the seductive addiction and their own selfish narcissistic trait means that they will :-

  1. Tell the OP’s Partner about their existence;
  2. Focus on winning back/retaining the OP’s interest;
  3. Possibly even smearing the OP’s Partner themselves in order to achieve their aims.

The DEMB’s usual empathic traits are outshone by this single, strong narcissistic trait of selfishness to the extent that they appear to have taken leave of their senses. They want the OP, they see that they should be the one who ‘wins’ the triangulation and they will keep on trying to secure this outcome again and again, even when placed on the shelf or devalued. Of course the OP may well find their relationship with their IPPS in tatters but will not be unduly concerned as the Narcissist OP will feed on the twin stream of fuel and either remain with the original IPPS and dis-engage from the DEMB IPSS or choose the DEMB IPSS instead and continue with the shelf arrangement with them or make them the new IPPS.

The DEMB in these circumstances has reached the Point of No Return, they want the OP and notwithstanding the carnage caused, the roller coaster ride which awaits them, they earn the title of DEMB justifiably.

The White Knight

In this scenario, the OP tells the DEMB that he or she is with someone else. Nevertheless, the narcissist OP will adopt the tactics of

“We are effectively separated.”

“We are only together for the children and lead separate lives otherwise”

“I am being abused.”

“It is a loveless marriage”

“I have tried to make it work but he/she just isn’t interested any more and I have not left because x, y or z”

“My wife doesn’t understand me.”

The DEMB adopts the role of White Knight riding to the rescue to save this poor OP from their misery, their banal existence or the clutches of the tyrant spouse. It is the familiar story of faked misery and abuse manufactured by the narcissist OP, the cultivation of the DEMB in the role of rescuer, the OP as ‘victim’ and the OP’s Partner as the ‘perpetrator’. The DEMB operates through a hybrid of empathic traits (doing the decent thing in rescuing the poor downtrodden narcissist OP, exhibiting compassion for this person etc) and also the narcissistic trait of selfishness because they want to be with this person, they want to ‘save’ them even though they are attached to someone else. Yes, they have been duped by the OP’s manipulative act and illusory behaviours, but nevertheless, the DEMB knows this person is attached and because they do not walk away, but instead engage in the relationship with the narcissist OP, they earn them mantle of DEMB.

Thereafter, this White Knight DEMB may be the Candidate IPSS and becomes crowned as IPPS, only then to suffer the devaluation and then learn the truth about the nature of the OP and what he or she did to the innocent OP’s partner. They may become the Shelf IPSS and find out the truth when they are on the shelf or possibly (though rarely) have been dis-engaged from. Once the White Knight realises they are not the rescuer, their response changes and they may respond with an Ivory Response or continue to fight for the OP, as per the Point of No Return. The fact remains, they knew this person was with someone else but they engaged with the OP and went along with the seduction despite this state of affairs. Yes, they may well have done so for noble empathic reasons but they also did so for a narcissistic selfish trait also.

Thus the Dirty Empath Marriage Breaker arises in three different ways, all of which either dent, damage or destroy an existing relationship between the narcissist (or narcissistic) OP and their existing partner.

56 thoughts on “The Dirty Empath : Relationship Breaker

  1. Leea says:


    Lol! If only it was that easy!

  2. NarcAngel says:

    Great post. Especially liked your second paragraph.

    I sense a difference in you from your previous time here on KTN. Do you feel differently? If so, what affected you that resulted in this change?

    1. Empath007 says:

      Hi NA ! I am just seeing this comment now searching for another … hence my very late reply.

      Thanks. I take that as a compliment 🙂

      Yes, I do feel differently. I think a large part of that has been time away from my narc. My ET has lowered tremendously through no contact (though my NC isn’t perfect due to the fact we work for the same
      Company still …. but that’s another story!)

      I also changed my focus. I’ve been concentrating on myself and my own goals a lot more then I was back then. I have new aspirations for my own life and that makes me happier.

      The pandemic has shaken me up a bit. I’ve mentioned this several times, but ultimately I almost broke no contact and decided to come here instead.

      1. NarcAngel says:

        Good to hear your shift of focus and that you are happier. Also that your logic won over in returning here instead of breaking NC.

  3. Empath007 says:

    Just out of pure curiosity on the topic of triangulation… how would a narc react when, say for example, they are dating another narc who’s doing it to them ? Would they recognize it as normal behaviour since from their worldview there are no boundaries ? Would they recognize it for
    What it is and not react ? Would they be jeolous ?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      It would unconsciously threaten the narcissists sense of control and therefore they would respond as per one of the three assertions of control. They may very well maintain that it is triangulation, because they can see it done to them, but their narcissism blinds them from seeing they are doing it to others.

      1. Empath007 says:

        Interesting. Thank you. I find it fascinating that they couldn’t recognize they are doing it when it’s a pattern for them.. do they at least realize they like the feeling of two people “fighting” for them ? And that they enjoy a third person involved even if they don’t know the real reason why?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Yes, it is fuel.

    2. blackcoffee30 says:

      E007 — Yesterday was not a good day for me . At. All. Reading your words here this morning helped a great deal. Thanks.

      “On days my ET isn’t high… I realize A) who he dates is none of my business because we are over. B) I’m the lucky one… because I escaped… they are caught in the midst of the whole narcissistic dynamic and they don’t even know it. C) He’s using them… just the same way he used me. D) I’m better off focusing on me.”

      1. Empath007 says:

        ❤️ I have to remind myself of these points all the time… even years later (sadly). It might sound dumb but sometimes saying these things to ourselves either outloud or in our minds keeps us on track.

        Sorry to hear you had a bad day. I hope today goes much better for you ❤️

        1. <3 Thank you. So far, it's better. I got lost in my memories for a minute, that's all.

  4. Anm says:

    HG, what kind of a narcissist is Clint Eastwood? He had numerous baby mommas and secret families while in his marriage. His affairs and side relationships weren’t flings, these women would have multiple babies with him, and while he “balanced” his legal marriages, public life, and extensive career. While he was a lover, people also complained he had a temper.

  5. Leea says:

    I went Supernova DE on my May. At the beginning of May, we celebrated my birthday he gave me a car and a beautiful pair of the end of May , he moved his NEW supply here from out of state and dumped me-this was the 26th. The 28th of May, I knocked on the door of her apartment..he was there and politely invited me in (greater narc). I told her all about “us” and how we been together for 2 years. He met her on a dating site 8 months ago and moved her here-she has already bought him an expensive watch and a Harley motorcycle (fuel). He texted me for four days straight..I didn’t respond. Then 2 more attempts by a “flying monkey.” No response..I have to do no contact like HG suggests. He texts, “just let me do what I have to do” translation “let me con this old lady out of all the money I can.” So glad I never gave him anything material.. I felt sorry for the new supply as she is 60 -clapping her hands in front of me saying “He’s my man!” “When?” I asked, “I was just screwing him on Saturday!” Her response, “I’m here now!” The crazy thing was he gave me material items and he takes material items from her. Sadly, I wish I could trade the stuff for honesty, loyalty, love and positive character.

    1. Leea says:

      Oh yeah, he never said a word..just poured himself a cup of coffee and watched the “triangulation show.” Not once did he say a word.. She is 7 years older than him. While walking out of the door I quietly asked him did he live her? He said , “No, I’m just doing what’s best for me.” Then then four days of texting started.. By the way, why did he give me the big extravagant gifts? Were they insurance in case the new supply doesn’t work out?

      1. SMH says:

        Leea, I realize it is your ET speaking, but it is not necessary to be ageist. She might be older than you and him but she also might be sexier, wealthier, more sophisticated, more fun or more beautiful than you. Right? I am just making a point here. Perhaps she was none of those things but that has nothing to do with age. There are plenty of reasons to feel sorry for her but being 60 is not one of them. Christy Brinkley is 66.

        1. Leea says:

          Thank you for your response. So sorry I didn’t give you the reason for my “age” concern. He stated to me on several occasions that he was “looking for a sugar mama” meaning a person to take care of him. He told me that he “wasn’t expecting me.” He’s been prowling the internet looking for “women who have access to their pensions.” She’s looks good for 60; she’s the “sugar mama” he was looking for..just my anger of him choosing a motorcycle, older woman with money, and a Movado watch over me..

          1. Ashley says:

            Oh no, he is not a greater don’t worry! He is an opportunist LOSER. My ex was a billionaire (at one time) was responsible for the success of one of the most successful companies in his line in the US and even he is not a greater! Go completely no contact with this lowlife idiot. He isn’t worth the salt in your tears, trust me!! Don’t even think about this cheap clown

          2. Empath007 says:

            Triangulation really is such a powerful manipulation. It’s the first most obvious one my narc did with me and it made me crazed with jealousy. it does make us want to say something bad about someone else because we feel in competition with them. I can understand your anger because I’ve been there.

            On days my ET isn’t high… I realize A) who he dates is none of my business because we are over. B) I’m the lucky one… because I escaped… they are caught in the midst of the whole narcissistic dynamic and they don’t even know it. C) He’s using them… just the same way he used me. D) I’m better off focusing on me.

            I know it’s so difficult. But hating her won’t make it any better. Hating him won’t make it any better. Jealously, hurt… won’t help YOU. And you are the one you need to be focusing on. What do you want for your new life without this narc ?

            I feel for you.. I do. Triangulation is so hard !!! Hang in there.

          3. SMH says:

            I got it, Leea, so it’s really the Residual Benefits he is after. Maybe read The Prime Aims. My ex Lesser was like this too, though he would never have been so crass as to admit it. A ‘sugar mama’ is still a mama. You don’t want to be with a grown man who needs a mother of any sort!!

      2. Kiki says:

        Leea .Wow this is something else.
        You are in a serious mess here.

        Why are the two of you practically fighting over this loser.?

        I doubt he is a greater narc , he would be far more subtle and classy than this.
        He honestly sounds like a guy who could grace the Jeremy Kyle show the equivalent of the American Jerry Springer show.

        Please don’t feed into this twisted and baffling situation.


        1. Leea says:

          Thank you..

      3. Violetta says:

        He’s a man-ho.

        1. Leea says:

          Yes, I found out that he’s had over 50 in the past year. It’s easy to do in Vegas.

          1. Violetta says:


            Run! Run for the hills!

            At best, this guy will give you STDs.

            At worst, Mommy may be more of a danger to you than he is. This is fucked up in so many directions, you’d need a flow chart to keep track of it.

    2. Renarde says:


      I dont recall your name so I’m assuming you are newish? Apologies if I’ve missed that.

      Your post is disturbing, not because of your description of the narc because, we have heard so much before. Similiar stories. Its disturbing because as others have said, your ET is way high and you are not perceiving the danger. Yet.

      He’s not a Greater. I would agree with kiki. He sounds like a bonkers cross between a Kyle/Springer reject. Coupled with his admittance to you hes looking for a certain kind of woman, strongly points to 1- Lack of facade management and 2- Lack of intelligence.

      The sponging off women is also strongly suggestive. Vast majority of MRNs do manage to hold down a job off their own merits. Some dont.

      I think you have a Lee here. Only one way to be sure, NDC. I’d be really interested to hear the results.

      Oh and by the way, the stuff he bought you was probably bought with money taken from the other woman. You MUST now go into complete NC. Immediately. If hes a Lee, he could very well be physically dangerous.

      I do hope this helps. You need as a priority to also remove your ET and therefore ER.

      As to why he bought the gifts. Instinctive. He was shoring you up, the IPPS against a IPSS who he was seeking to promote. Just in case either went wrong. But because of his limited cognitive function, he couldn’t quite work it out until virtually the last moment. Remember, he isnt thinking about this rationally, as your or I would. It’s pure instinct.

      She ‘won’ because she had more of the potential to fulfill the Prime Aims. Money. Oh and because shes older, well women when they get to a certain point, might have perceived him to be a catch. The “autumn romance’, so lots of fuel. In addition, he might well have a sexual fetish for older women. Which then is also highly indicative as to his cadre.

      She won nothing. Get Out. Stay Out then NC. You won.

      And please keep on posting.

      1. Leea says:

        Thank you so much for your response. Yes, I am new; I just found out about this website last week. I was listening to HG on YouTube – such a blessing. Is there an acronym dictionary? I haven’t learned all of the abbreviations yet. I think his fettish for older women comes from his mom- the lead narc. His IPSS before me was 64, his mom is 69. The IPSS and his mom (Narc)become friends then they triangulate her son. They laugh at him and talk about him. They “report” to her daily about his behavior. She used to want me to call her; when I wouldn’t help her degrade her son in a conversation, she stopped talking to me-EVEN IN PERSON at family functions. His mom wants to control the entire relationship. Once when she came to visit us, he and I were laying on the couch. We gave her the bed. She then came and laid her FULL body along his full body..she was even somewhat laying on me! She kept whispering to him how much she loved him while stroking his head..I then heard him respond to her in the most childish voice that he loved her, too. She ignored me that night and the whole next day! Crazy me- I became friends with the ex IPSS the 64 year-old. She met a man her age and started calling me her little sister. She said that she wanted me away from him because he was no good. She told me how he took her new car for months and had a car accident and totaled it. He also borrowed money from her and never paid her back. She also tried to call me 3 times and text me 2 times after this happened, I never responded to her because of listening to HG. She’s still working for him. Thank you so much for listening.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Yes, see Acronymns in Formal Info in the menu.

        2. Renarde says:

          No problem Leea. At all.

          So yeah, he has a very weird and unnatural relationship with his mother. But you don’t need me to tell you that.

          There is a lot and I mean alot to unpick here. I fully hold my hands up and say I’m not qualified. But Hg is though.

          I would say, that in your initial posts, I suspected shennagins. But then there is mother adoration and mother worship. Now this falls firmly into the latter category.

          There is something deeply sinister and very unnatural in this. At this point, you may not see it. Because all new survivours are so deeply enmeshed in FOG. Fear. Obligation. Guilt. And it IS a literal and metaphorical fog. There is no judgement here. Believe me. We’ve all been through it.

          The blanking at functions of you by the Mother is giving Present Silent Treatment (PST). Almost always the preserve of the Middle Rangers (MRNs) It suits their passive-aggressive nature, you see.

          You see, the more you add to this, the more it is trammelimg in to my ‘diagnosis’ as Empath. For what it’s worth.

          All I will say, is that there are some seriously bad, if not downright criminal activities going on here. So practical advice but first questions

          1- How old are you and him?
          2- Are you financially tied in any way through loans, rent or a mortgage?
          3- Do you have children?

          I suspect the answer to 2 and 3 is no. Thank God. Then run. Block everyone who knows him. Anyone at all. Including him.

          Does he have access to your property? Keys need to be changed. In fact EVERYTHING now needs to be changed because you are highlighting multiple narcs who, at THIS point, are working for their common, shared interests.

          Acronyms? Yes. You will find them in the search bar at the top of the main site

          You are going to learn all of this in time. Promise.

          Thinking of you tonight. Stay safe. x

          1. Leea says:


            I’m 50, he’s 52. His mom started having kids at a young age. He’s actually the 4th of 5 kids. All alcoholics, except one sister. The one sister, the only one I trust, is very religious. She’s the one who told me to watch her mom and older sister. She removed them from her life over the last year because the two of them (her mom and sister) stole her earrings. The mom and sister work as a team. I’m just now noticing after listening to all of HG’s videos. The two of them got real close to me when I was going to pull out part of my pension to start “us” a company. This new IPSS he found on a dating site 8 months ago, she just started a staffing agency here. I found that he calls upon his mom and sister to help him “seal his deals.” The other IPSS right before me owned 4 tax agencies..the two of them really befriended her! She was so glad I was in his life as she wanted to get rid of him and them. At the time, I never knew what she meant. I never bonded with them. I’m so glad- otherwise I could have been manipulated by the 3 of them. I, too, hold two businesses and several academic degrees. None of these defended/protected me from these people!

          2. Renarde says:


            I know and I truly get what you are saying about being defended.

            The most salutary lesson. Narcs WILL gang up together IF this sense not THINK there is a common purpose. But all narcs will eventually fall out. To make up, then fall out. Saw it myself in a kink female friendship group. Two women were always at it. Sly digs, PA comments. At the time, I didnt understand it for what it was.

            So now you’ve learned and you are well on the way to weaponisation. I note Violetta has recommended SATN. I therfore recommend Fuel then No Contact.

            Someone might need to jump in here to assist me but in which book is The Matrix discussed? Cos lovely, you REALLY need to understand that.

            Oh and well done on quals. I’m also very well qualified and very well connected professionally. Didn’t stop me spending 18 years with a psychopath. I do mean that literally.

        3. Renarde says:


          You are NOT crazy btw.

        4. Violetta says:

          Holy Oedipus!

      2. Leea says:

        Yes, she actually referred to him as a catch!

        1. Renarde says:


          And THERE is my Contagion!

          God, I amaze myself sometimes! And I set the bar high!

          Now, what are you going to do next lovely?

          1. Leea says:

            OMG!! That is exactly what the new IPSS said to me when we were talking, “He’s my man. We’re together. So, what are you going to do next?”

            Me: in my brain “Slap the Sh”! out of you! Then quickly “Oh honey, you are in for a real treat!”

            Me: in reality: I left, thanked her for the hospitality.

            I’ve been walking everyday -at least 10,000 steps, binge watching HG, wanting so desperately to send him a bag of adult diapers -anonymously of course (Thanks HG for the suggestion!) Trying my best to go no contact on MY SIDE! (It is so darn easier to block him from me! I need to block myself FROM MYSELF!) I’ve turned into a Facebook stalker and I haven’t been on it for over a year! Hanging out with a few friends and oh well – crying or should I say balling my eyes out so hard (I must have frightened my dog-he’s starting to lick my feet during the crying spells!).

            Deleted all of our “sex videos “ from his accounts. Thank God I kept the passwords. Hopefully, he hasn’t stored them. I kept the one of him where I was sticking a “toy” up his butt! (I need something to bribe him with just in case! The new IPSS threatened to get me fired. She knew where I worked everything!) Does this mean he’s a homosexual? Was I just his “beard”? He likes to stare at the same sex sometimes. Once I found a magazine at his house; it showed transvestite men.

            I haven’t cried but once this week – hell it is only Wednesday, but big score for me!

            It’s only been a few weeks; I’m new to all this knowledge. My brain is struggling with the paradigm shift. I knew the guy was full of “Fuckery”, but “Fake Fuckery!”

            Everything was fake! Oh God! Logically, I know his character is poor. Emotionally, I have to detach.

          2. Renarde says:


            There are a great series of articles called ‘crossing the emotional seas’. I think you should read them.

            As you say, you are very new to this and the experience of what he is – so new and so raw.

            My bro would say, ‘he’s a wrong ‘un!

            If the IPPS is threatening you with your job, the triangulation has started already. Rule of thumb. Lessers give bronze periods. So now she is in all inevitability, in devaluation and yes it can be that quick.

            NA has a brilliant expression, she calls it ‘tinsel week’.

            As to sex m’larky. Difficult to know without more data but I wouldn’t say hes a homosexual as much as a hedonist. There is a huge difference as some hendonists convince themselves they are bi. Then keep it hidden. Especially males. True acid test of bi is whether they would either kiss another man or want to form an established relationship with them. Its unusual in my estimation for truly hetero males to want to continually experiment with ass play. In fact, outside subs, I’ve never encountered except in one. A hedonist.

            All fuckery is fake by the very definition. You’ve tied yourself in a knot there sweetie.

            I think you’ve probably gone through enough today. At some point you might require a good, straight up, northern ‘word’. Now is not tonight.

            Try, if you can to not look through his profiles tonight, ok? Watch a film. Dont have a bath, that makes things worse if you dwell. A shower, into your pjs and a massive box of chocolates. Or wine.

            Then switch your phone off. And leave it off until the morning. And cry if you need to. Let it out. You won’t cry forever you know.

            You’ve got this! 🦊🎩💛

          3. Violetta says:


            Have you familiarized yourself with HG’s material on sex vids?

        2. blackcoffee30 says:

          I read somewhere, “Throw that odiferous tapeworm into the sea!” and remember those words when I’m feeling down about how “amazing” my narc was. Nope. Parasite.

          1. Ren says:


            This not a straightforward situation because I now deeply suspect illegal activities have gone on.

            Otherwise, I would agree.

          2. blackcoffee30 says:

            I simply saying the thought made me feel better; it won’t be so easy to go NC in every situation.

          3. Leea says:

            How long does it take? Why do I feel bad when he’s the BAD person? Why is this so different?

          4. blackcoffee30 says:

            When I was in the thick of it the last thing I wanted to fucking hear was, “It takes time.” So, know that you will get to the other side. You’ve survived everything up to this point. XO

          5. mommypino says:

            Leea I don’t think that there is any definitive answer on how long it takes to get over the narcissist but the more disciplined you are with your No Contact the faster you will break free. And No Contact doesn’t only mean physical but also mental. It means not looking at his social media, not looking at what is going on with him or with anybody related to him such as the new supply or his mom or sisters etc. And when you find yourself thinking about him do your best to distract yourself mentally. The book Exorcism by HG has many great advice you can follow to get him out of your mind. Your Emotional Thinking is very high right now that’s why it hurts and makes you feel bad even though he is the bad one. Remember the difference between you and him: you get attached emotionally while he doesn’t, you feel empathy while he doesn’t and you recognize your faults (even if they were just reactions from his bad behaviors towards you) while he is incapable of self reflection. It is 💯 reasonable for you to take some time to get over him because that is how you are as a person. That’s just what you have to work with and Exorcism is a good book I recommend to you.
            If I have to choose whose position I am going to be between you or the new supply I would totally choose to be you. He used you for triangulation (instinctively and also from what he learned from his previous experiences), so that this woman would have a very high ET for being the one that he chose over a much younger woman. Her narcissistic traits of vanity and pride are being heavily corrupted. He gave you those gifts also to increase your ET so that you would be more affected by him dumping you and therefore be a great triangulation tool for him although I agree that he did this instinctively. Your N trait of pride is also being corrupted by the manner and the person he has replaced you with. This whole situation is garbage that you don’t need to let yourself be a part of. With this lady’s ET being very high with her perceived victory over you she will be totally willing and enthusiastically provide fuel and many other things to him and potentially ruining the rest of your life. While you still have your future ahead of you. Do not look back at that garbage and filth. You just keep walking forward because you totally deserve better and not low lives in your life.

          6. mommypino says:

            *correction for a typo “potentially ruining the rest of HER life (not your life).”

          7. mommypino says:

            Leea, one last thing. In triangulation there is always a villain and in this instance he made you to be the villain of his garbage story. And that is why she is feeling so victorious. My first ever narc encounter was actually a guy who befriended me but he made the friendship so blurry in a way that I felt that he was romantically in loved with me. At that time I was still in school and my narc mom didn’t allow me to date so even if he was asking me to meet him all the time, it was very rare that I was able to find an opportunity to secretly meet him and our interactions were mostly text messages. One day all of a sudden he told me that he ha a girlfriend and he wants me to be friends with her too. He has never mentioned her to me and the whole time before her he was still heartbroken from his ex gf and I was acting like his therapist. We have met briefly and she was also texting me a lot and saying how pretty I was. Eventually I got so tired of the situation and exploded at him for leading me on. He told me that she has read my text messages to him and she was really hurt. So I realized this guy has actually made me to be the villain in their love story so that his girlfriend would be more grateful that he chose her over me. So I decided I will not be an actor in his script. I stopped responding and blocked both of them. He hoovered me on Facebook and I just deleted it and didn’t respond to it. He means nothing to me except a story that I can share with you. But that was the thought process that made it easy for me to disengage. I will not be an actor in his script. I will not play the villain in his script. I write the script of my own life and not a loser like him. Take care Leea. Just keep on moving forward and away from all of them.

          8. mommypino says:

            *Oops another correction, he hoovered me on Friendster and not Facebook. Friendster was the social media platform that we were using at that time and I think there was no Facebook yet.

          9. Leea says:

            Renarde, Violetta, and Coffee,

            Thank you so much! I took a semi-break yesterday. Stopped taking baths went to did you know that I was ruminating in the tub? Great advice. I will start back to watching the videos today. Thank you so much for the suggestions.

            I have certainly updated my wine list since all this has happened.

            Yesterday, I felt a “pop”. It was if his energy just left and I felt so relieved. Has anyone else ever experienced this?

          10. HG Tudor says:

            Sounds like wind to me.

          11. Renarde says:


            I knew because I’ve done it myself. Many, many times. Wallowing.

            Baths are lovely, they can be a sanctuary. I don’t have a bath at the moment but for many years, that’s all I had. And I had many unhappy times in there.

            It was probably because my vibrator wasn’t waterproof. Or it was narcs? I must ponder on this.

            I’m being trite. I know someone said upthread that time is a great healer. I know I’d have smacked someone if they had said it to me at my times of emotional distress. It is both trite and it is a truism.

            You WILL get over this. The next trick is to ensure it never happens again. This is the very essence of weaponisation against the unaware.

            It’s a hard and a very lonely position to be in. Far better though to not live or be associated with someone who will abuse you.

            I’m so glad you had your ‘pop” moment. You are now well on your way!

            Take it easy, please. You DO have the strength to remove all these narcs from your life.

        3. Leea says:

          Well, I haven’t gotten through ALL of HG’s videos!! LOL! That voice makes it so easy to binge watch! Thank you for the voice!

          1. Leea says:

            HG ~ You’re too funny!! No, it wasn’t “wind”! I want you to know that out of all the information out there on narcissism- YOU ARE THE BEST!! Thank you!

            Mommy~ Thank you for sharing your story. The supply was telling me “he felt sorry for you” in other words the only reason why he was with me was to “help” me. I don’t need any help. What a farce! She was so happy to be the winner! What a prize! I’ve been reading HG’s older posts on Quora. They were enlightening. The triangulation is what is killing me! I feel like I lost a contest I never volunteered to enter!!! I do know that he is a pissy drunk and a low-life cheater! He’s still searching for MORE supply on 3 dating sites (Yes, I’m guilty! The “spying” is terrible!). I need to purchase the Exorcism book.

            Renarde ~ You’re an angel. Your words have uplifted me today. I found my world falling apart today. They have a new car, a new apartment, a new motorcycle, a new business. The air conditioner went out in my car. I’m driving my second car – the air conditioner works, but my windows won’t roll down- had to get a new fuse. My dog bit another dog yesterday; the vet bill is over $1000 and my ex mother-in-law died! Not to mention – I’m still thinking about a person that doesn’t give a damn about me! Talk about winter in summer! So, I’m treating myself extra special -nails, hair, shopping, dinner.

            However, why do I wish THEM hell?

          2. HG Tudor says:

            Indeed I am and thank you. I am pleased that wind issues were not the cause.

          3. mommypino says:

            You’re welcome Leea.

            It is irrelevant what lies he tells her. You will give credibility to his lies if you stay involved with them or show that you are interested about them in any way. Triangulation makes a narcissist look more desirable than they really are. Just like how toilet papers seemed so valuable when there was hoarding of it. Your best revenge is to show that you are not interested in being a part of their low budget soap opera. Live your life and don’t let a narcissist write your script. She may be the chosen one but she was chosen to be devoured by a predator. You on the other hand were able to escape. Do you think that a fish cares that the shark ate the other fish because the other fish had more meat and therefore superior? You are clearly the real winner here. Also the spying is a Truth Seeker trait of an Empath. Empaths actually spy only when there are red flags.

          4. Violetta says:


            If only the effects of narc abuse could be expelled along with intestinal gas….quick and thematically appropriate, too.

  6. Lucy says:

    I had a DEMB white knight “save” my husband of 30 years from his terrible marriage to me. I have no doubt he manipulated this scenario.I found out about 6 months into their affair and they ran off to be together. Fast forward 2.5 years and they have split up. Apparently their relationship was characterised by arguments, her hitting him with a pick axe and police callouts. He quickly got onto E Harmony and found a new love. A nurse with a purse. I remain single and happy with a bag of popcorn to enjoy the ever unfolding shit show !!

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Ignore the shit show, tempting as it is Lucy, that is a breach of no contact.

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