Promiscuous Boy

 

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I remember the day, or more accurately that the floodgates were opened on my promiscuity. It was when I attended a particular university for the purposes of an admission interview. It was early December and this historic and beautiful university city was lit up by orange and yellow lamps as a little mist clung to the narrow alleyways and courtyards. I had concluded my two interviews (read Fury if you want to know more about how they progressed and how one interview impacted on me) and returned to the junior common room to meet up with two other candidates.

They were applying to the same college but to read a different subject to me. They were both English literature students. He was from Greenock in Scotland and she was a bookbinder’s daughter from Cambridge in England. Beer was consumed, stories swapped and the fellow from Greenock retired to his room. The bookbinder’s daughter, she was called Sarah, came back to my room and we talked before we climbed into bed together. I had a girlfriend at the time and whilst there had been dalliances with other girls I had not slept with another. That changed that night. And in the morning too.

Sarah wandered away across the quadrangle to her room and I rose from my bed to seek out the bathroom. She decided to stay another day at the college because she wanted to spend time with me. I was happy for her to do so as I waited around, as was customary, in case an interview arose at another college.  The following day we both departed, she to the east and me to the west and once I alighted at the train station near to my girlfriend’s house I went straight round to see her. She was pleased to see me and embraced me with enthusiasm. I returned the enthusiasm. I had no sense of guilt at my infidelity. Nothing at all. Instead I revelled in the way I had taken Sarah to my bed and now strode into my then girlfriend’s bedroom with her asking with admiration how my interview had progressed and what the college was like.

Following that first time I never looked back. I cheated left, right and centre. With that girlfriend and with all subsequently. Why did I do it? Way back then I realised how good it made me feel but I had no understanding of why I actually did it. Something always drove me to do it. I realised that the relevant girlfriend would be upset if she knew what I had done but this never stopped me. I never gave it a second thought.

Even as I was locked in an embrace with some relative stranger and an image of the girlfriend formed in my mind I felt no tug of conscience, remorse or guilt. All I knew was that I was able to seduce, pull, entice and ensnare everywhere I went. I would meet someone and always find something attractive about them – it might be the colour of their hair, the length of their legs, their accent, the way they rolled the letter r, the fact they drank with a straw or the size of their breasts. It might be their enthusiasm for a particular band, their recollections of travelling or the manicured nails. Each and everyone had some kind of attraction.

I could not resist trying to ensnare someone in order to bring them under my spell. It was then that I realised what it was that really drew me to them, it was the promise of their attention. I realised I was able to get them hooked on me. I had convinced myself that I was drawn to them for some other reason but it dawned on me that I was just telling myself that as a reason. A reason that I required to explain this compelling desire to couple with someone. But that was not the real reason. The truth was that I wanted their attention on me and this was the way to get it.

Yes it was pleasant engaging in that first kiss and I enjoyed the sensations that arose when the embrace escalated but it was not what I actually I wanted. I wanted them to praise me. I wanted them to become transfixed by me and for them to shine their spotlight firmly on me.  The promiscuity has always continued and it does not matter who with it is the fact that I am able to do seduce and by so doing gather that starry-eyed admiration, those pleasing words and the attention. This engagement does not end with behaving in a promiscuous fashion. I will engage in discussions with a stranger of my own sex,at a bar, a railway platform or in a lift. I have no desire to seduce them sexually for that is not my preference but I do cause them to like me and in so doing give me that fuel that I need.

Often I feel like admitting my repeated transgressions straight away to the relevant girlfriend of the time but I have no desire to puncture my primary source of fuel by doing this. I do find it interesting how they always react with such alarm and distress on the odd occasion I do make such a confession. If I tell them how well I got on with a random male in an exchange at a bar, someone with whom I have swapped views, thoughts and opinions, I receive a smile and a comment of,

“Always good to make new friends.”

Yet an admission of coupling with a stranger results in hysteria even though to me these interactions are similar. Yes, one might yield greater fuel than the other but in terms of intimacy they are equally redundant. That is not why I do it. I do not do it because I want to savour the sensation of another’s mouth against me. I do it because I want them to give me fuel. I can understand how you may be aghast if in a normal relationship a partner behaves with infidelity but to our kind it just about the attention, the admiration, the fuel. You have such a great hang up because sex is involved. That is just the gateway device to me. If I could get the attention another way so that it provides such fuel then believe me I will do it. However, in your world, on the whole, the act of a sexual union accords a greater connection between two people which means you yield more fuel and are more inclined to keep providing it as you seek more from the liaison.

Our promiscuity arises to enable us to achieve fuel. From the new target who is seduced by us and from you should we alert you in some way (either in whole or in part) to our new interest. The condemnation that is attached to promiscuity when in a relationship means that your reaction just provides us with even more fuel. There is a risk of your supply being punctured by this revelation but it is a calculated risk and is often done when the quality of your supply generally has started to wane.

To us promiscuity when in a relationship is merely a means to an end. To you, well, you behave as if it is the end of the world. It really isn’t.

258 thoughts on “Promiscuous Boy

  1. Anm says:

    There is no way that narcissist have a high self esteem. I dont know what it is, and I am not tooting my own horn here, as this has caused my life major issues, but something about my interaction with narcisisst, causes them to always over react. When I look at it, yeah I have attracted narcissist on a romantic level. But for some reason, they all have this malign obsession towards me after the golden period. My sisters and friends have dated/married narcissist, and those narcissists seem to single me out from the rest of the support system to attack. I have been singled out at corporate jobs I have worked where narcisisst covertly tried to take me down like a game, I have even been gang stalked by groups of narcisisst before. All of this has become less bothersome with time, sort of like exposure therapy, but I wonder if I am doing or saying something to reflect the creature back to them.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      1. The issue has been whether narcissists have low self-esteem, not whether they have high self esteem. Narcissists do not have low self-esteem.
      2. What you have written is nothing to do with self esteem and everything to do with the issue of control.

      1. Anm says:

        Ok! I see what you are saying. So when my daughter comes back from her dads, and she says, “do you know who I am?!??!” I think, “she heard that from her father. He is obviously stooping low enough to argue with a 4 year old.” That feels like low self esteem to me, because I dont argue with 4 year olds. But a narcisisst’s perspective, she challenged his control, which is normal, so he reasserted that control with that nonsense. I get it now.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Correct.

          It is a mistake, albeit an understandable one that you made because you are placing your worldview on that of the narcissist and that is a mistake targets repeatedly make.

  2. Fiddleress says:

    Chihahamum (and all readers who may be interested):
    “Forget to mention that narcissists dont love themselves not truely bc they never had true acceptance and love as a child”
    I know of at least one narcissist who did have true acceptance and love as a child. It may not have been enough from their perspective to outweigh whatever created the lack of control environment,, but not all narcissists ‘never had true acceptance and love as a child’.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Accurate and thank you for sharing.

  3. NarcAngel says:

    Narcissists do not loathe themselves (as the narcissist they’ve become), but they loathe the Creature, yes?

    So if people see the Creature as the real self before the Narcissism took the reins as a coping mechanism (against perceived weakness) then it might be viewed as the entity (that contains both narcissism and the Creature) as having low self-esteem. Not differentiating between the two. You are clear on them being separate but the empathic view is that the Creature is a part of you that you reject but is still very much part of your genetic make up.

    I am not arguing your assertion HG, that narcissists do not have low self-esteem, but rather trying to explain where this thought may originate and persist from the empath point of view.

    1. NarcAngel says:

      More succinctly: Empaths can have a hard time countenancing something manufactured by the narcissism as a coping mechanism as having true self-esteem.

      1. HG Tudor says:

        Indeed.

      2. Leigh says:

        NarcAngel, this is perfectly stated. This explains exactly why I struggled with understanding how the narcissist doesn’t have low self esteem. Foe me, I couldn’t grasp that if the confidence is created by the Narcissism, is the confidence and high self esteem actually real? I guess to the narcissist who doesn’t know his sense of self is manufactured, then the confidence and high self esteem is real.

        Every day I learn something new on this blog and have more and more lightbulb moments.

    2. fox says:

      Well stated, NarcAngel. I have been reading through this thread and trying to understand, but you highlighted exactly where the breakdown occurs in the empath vs narcissistic perspective and provided just what I needed to process this conversation properly, thank you.

  4. Leela says:

    I understood it this way: The True Self of the narc is actually “the creature”. NPD-patients were highly wounded and traumatized during childhood, they cannot bear the trauma and the pain. In order to cope they create the False Self: the facade. The Fuel is to defend the narc from the creature and maintaining the facade. Narcs create the facade to shield themselves from “the creature” because when confronted with it, they couldn´t bear the trauma which lies in “the creature”. They get sick when they see it. So, NPD is a defense mechanism from the pain and trauma which was inflicted during childhood.

    They need the facade to feel alright. And in order to keep up the False Self (facade) they need fuel. There are many ways to gather this fuel: either through intelligence, intellectual accomplishments, looks, sex, work, friends, certain talents an skills, whatever …you name it! Sex is one of the ways to get fuel and keep up the facade. Some choose this way, others choose different ways to gather fuel. But they are so busy with gathering fuel 24/7 that they cannot have feelings or empathy for other people. They must defend themselves 24/7 from “the creature”. That´s why sex is not the same of them as for us. It is one possible tool for fuel, manipulation and control.

    They don´t see any point in having sex if it doesn´t serve the Prime Aims. So, then, they do not waste energy on it but choose another method to get fuel, to manipulate and to control.

    Is this right?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      No.

      Not all narcissists were highly wounded and traumatised during childhood. See To Cope is To Control.
      The narcissist does not consciously create the facade, the narcissism does it. Most narcissists are unaware and behave instinctively. They have no knowledge of what they are or why they do what they do.
      The construct serves two purposes, read Fury to understand what those purposes are.
      The narcissism is a self defence mechanism, but we do not get sick when we see the creature and the creature is not the trauma.

      Fuel powers the construct (the facade is not the construct, it is part of it). The gathering of fuel is not the reason the narcissist does not have feelings or empathy for people. Narcissists do have feelings towards people (largely negative). Narcissists do not have empathy because it is absent when someone is a narcissist, it is not created within us and can never be “injected” into us.

      1. WhoCares says:

        HG,

        Great answer to Leela.

        “(the facade is not the construct, it is part of it)”

        This is an interesting distinction. I mostly assumed the facade = construct. Have you written about this somewhere?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Thank you WC, no, this will be covered in the book about The Creature.

          1. WhoCares says:

            Okay. Thank-you, good to know.
            Even just having this piece of information (the distinction) tells me more about the Construct.

          2. lickemtomorrow says:

            HG, do you have a release date in mind for this book?

          3. HG Tudor says:

            Not at the current time.

      2. Leela says:

        Well, I am just about to read “Fury”…. You guys are really complicated! 😉

        1. Violetta says:

          Leela:

          Just finished it. Quite the eye-opener.

          Several passages reminded me of a children’s book about a changeling called The Moorchild:

          She was not much in the habit of thinking, only of howling her bitter, lonely anger at her exile from all she knew and understood—her homeland, the Folk and their paths crisscrossing the moor, her numberless kin.

          She neither tried nor wished to understand the alien human life around her. Through the long days, caged in the hateful truckle bed, bored and homesick, she had done little but rage and grieve. She cared nothing for her jailers—not the young woman who fed her the tasteless gruel and half smothered her with embraces, not the old woman who was her enemy, not the man with his fearful, threatening iron. They might live out their clumsy human lives or die tomorrow, for all of her. They might have their own babe back with her goodwill. Indeed, nothing would have pleased her more than to be gone in a blink, as the old woman said, back home to the Mound and the Moorfolk, leaving this truckle bed to its silly rightful owner. – Eloise Jarvis McGraw

          It’s quite likely that children with NPD, along with kids on the spectrum, kids with LDs, etc., were thought to be changelings in some cultures. It would certainly be an attractive notion to narcy parents who didn’t have the ability to blame themselves.

          1. Leela says:

            Finished “Fury” now too. Yes, every H.G.-book is an eye-opener. I think not only in other cultures. In ours too. Many people don´t know about NPD.

  5. Sweetest Perfection says:

    HG, I am trying to see a tall blonde man here at the celebration of Martin Gore’s birthday on his private yacht, but I can’t see any. You didn’t get an invite?

  6. Leela says:

    Oh crap! So then: “My” narc (middle mid range type A elite) uses Pity Play excessively! I really don´t get it: For what kind of control over people?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      The attainment of the Prime Aims, of which control and fuel are the most important aspects.

  7. Leela says:

    One more little thing: As we know now that the narc has to do everything to keep themselves away from “the creature” (the True Self), and they need constant FUEL (attention, admiration, love, praise, hatred, tears, whatever), it is clear that they have to ensnare people who are able to give them constant FUEL in high doses, right? That´s mostly the IPPS. In order to ensnare such a person they USE sex as tool! It´s a tool to bind a person to them!

    Further, in order to manipulate the IPPS to give them their daily fuel, they MAY USE sex (depending on the cadre). They need control, they need to manipulate – all for FUEL! All for their self-defense!

    The focus lies ALWAYS on this self-defense mechanism, not on others, or on feelings, cause the narc doesn´t have certain feelings due to the massive damage they suffered.

    So, the narc USES sex: to ensnare, to control, to manipulate. It´s all about FUEL, Ladies and Gentlemen! 😉

  8. Leela says:

    Wow, HOT discussion going on here 😉 It´s not that difficult, guys. Narcs are actually horribly damaged people. They are walking scar tissues. They cannot love themselves of course. So, in order to defend their damaged true self (aka “The Creature”), they must create a “False Self” (aka the facade). They reflect those False Selves to the world in order to get attention in any form, love and praise (FUEL!). Without this feedback from other people (FUEL) they cannot keep up their labile False Self and are confronted with their True Self (the creature). When they are confronted with “the creature” they suffer horribly, they get ill, suffer delusions, psychosis, depression, anxiety, whatever.

    So, in order to defend themselves from this state, they do everything to keep up the False Self, the facade. That´s all they live for! Attention, praise, admiration, love, hatred from others to stabilize the facade. It´s a self-defense mechanism from the horror of their True Self (the creature). The narc does almost everything to get Fuel, so that he/she has not to see “the creature”. The creature is imprisoned into the facade, otherwise the narc gets very sick.

    Take it from normal to the extreme: Imagine a person has low self-esteem and needs attention and praise every now and then. Alright! And now you take this to the extreme! A person has totally damaged self-esteem, which is non-existent. He or she needs now more attention, admiration, praise, love – every single day, all the time to feel good. This person is that much busy with constantly getting attention (FUEL) that they cannot be concerned about others! They just do everything for FUEL. They must keep themselves “healthy” and functioning. So, they cannot show empathy, care or attention for others – they just don´t wanna get sick!!! On any price (almost)!

    What has this to do with sex? The narcissistic person is too busy with gathering FUEL, gathering attention, love, praise, hatred, whatever that they are not even capable to feel the way we feel. Some see sex as FUEL and of course they are hypersexual. Others gather FUEL with other methods, not sex. It depends on the cadre, depends how they were brought up by their parents.

    So now you know that all the narc wants is attention in any form (FUEL), it gets pretty much logical, that they don´t do anything which doesn´t generate enough fuel for them. So, they cannot waste their time on “Wow, sexy person, I wanna f…. them” – either the sex gives them FUEL or not! Period.

    As simple as that!

    One more little thing: The neurotransmitter is called serOtonin, not seratonin 😉

    (Smart a… mode off, thank you very much!) 😉

    1. HG Tudor says:

      ” A person has totally damaged self-esteem, which is non-existent.” Wrong. It is nothing to do with self esteem. The repeated fixation with maintaining narcissists have low self-esteem is wrong and is a combination of yet another misunderstanding about narcissism, combined with maintaining something to make the victim feel better. It is you, the victims, whose self-esteem that suffers.

      “He or she needs now more attention, admiration, praise, love – every single day, all the time to feel good.” Wrong. The narcissist requires The Prime Aims, fuel is part of the Prime Aims and fuel comes in both positive and negative, it is not just the positive aspects that are needed all of the time.

      “Wow, sexy person, I wanna f…. them” – either the sex gives them FUEL or not! Period.” Wrong. Sex always provides fuel.

      “Some see sex as FUEL and of course they are hypersexual” No. Sex is a means of control and fuel. All narcissists regard sex as fuel, the majority do so unconsciously and a much smaller number do so consciously.

      1. Leela says:

        But, H.G.: If all narcissist see sex as fuel, why there are those who are not “hypersexual” and not promiscous?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Because they obtain fuel in different ways not primarily or at all through sex.

          You see chicken as meat, even though you may not eat it.

          1. Leela says:

            Aaaw, alright! I get it! There are many ways to gather fuel, sex is one of them. It´s like there are many foods to eat when you´re hungry, chicken is one of them.

            Some prefer chicken, some other prefer potatoes or veggies or french fries when they´re hungry! Aw yeah, I get it!

            Thank you very much for your patience! 🙂 <3

          2. MB says:

            HG, your analogies make everything so clear.

          3. HG Tudor says:

            Indeed.

      2. Kel says:

        HG
        You clear up that it’s a myth that narcissists have low self esteem. It never really made sense to me that they had low self esteem because they do seem to believe they are great inside and out. Negative fuel is good to them too, it’s our attention to them that they need. Fan or critic, so long as they’re constantly on our minds. Wounding is about challenging their control or their facade. They feel everyone is inferior to them, whereas I feel everyone is equal but has different personalities. I don’t like everyone, I may look down on their behavior, but not as inferior to me, but as not having good manners or for not being considerate, and then I don’t want to be around them because they annoy me. Narcissists fit the definition of superiority complex, but the core is not low self esteem, it’s the need for devotion to them. They need for us to serve a purpose for them in the world they’ve built, and they need to always be on our minds to ensure we’ll stay where we are with them. It’s confusing, like everything else is with narcissism.

        1. Kel says:

          What then is behind their mask – it’s not insecurity- it’s their rage and their evil streak- the one that comes out in that reptilian smile when they’ve caused us to react in a way that goes against our nature. The mask conceals the creature inside them, and they can’t let it out because it will blow their facade. Their facade draws everyone in to them, it cons us, it’s the golden period, the false friendship, a key ingredient to the hypnotic spell we fall under and the web we become entangled in. The rare times they fly into a true fit of rage – and I’ve never witnessed it myself but have only heard others describe it as he sounded like a demon or he was actually spitting as he lashed out his insults. What’s at their core is the lava, concealed by the beautiful peaceful volcano above. The world is so much more than three dimensional, there’s so much going on that we never see.

        2. wildviolet22 says:

          Kel- that self esteem thing never made sense to me either. They have done studies on hardened criminals and bullies, and found that they have high self esteem. Charles Manson had high self esteem. Narcissism at its finest, no doubt.

          My narc seemed to have an external locus of control and high self esteem too. The “I feel good about myself, because I feel good about myself”, and since his abysmal behavior, in his mind, was the fault of other people, he was okay with himself.

          To me, there’s a difference between self esteem and self respect. Self respect is based on what you do. So if you have some standards for yourself, and adhere to them, you will naturally feel good about yourself. No one can take that away from you. The self esteem for no reason, even if you’re behaving like an a**hole, and then feel good about yourself anyways..well maybe you shouldn’t feel good about yourself if you’re being an a**hole? This was my narc, all okay with himself and his behavior. And since I’m not the boss of him or anyone else, at this point the way I look at it is I need to focus on myself and my own behavior, and protect myself from people who have shown me that they are okay with treating me badly (mainly him).

          1. Kel says:

            Very true WildViolet,
            HG has taught us we can’t change or reason with narcissists. We can only change ourselves, after our eyes are opened up to what we’ve been dealing with and what we’d become because of it.

        3. Witch says:

          @kel

          I understand how someone would assume certain narcs have low self-esteem.
          My ex was constantly paranoid about me leaving him for another man or cheating on him. He became enraged if another man fancied me or tried to chat me up.
          If he could have stuck me in a burqa he would have.
          He also appeared to be insecure about his weight and would ask me if I thought he has put on weight or that he’s fat.
          He would tell me that if he’s insecure about something I should make him feel better, I should make sure his jealousy is not triggered.

          It’s quite easy for us to mis-read certain behaviours as rooted in low self-esteem and not because we want to make ourselves feel better, but because that is how the narcs Make it appear to us.

          1. HG Tudor says:

            Correct.

          2. wildviolet22 says:

            Witch- mine is a “victim”, so I can definitely relate to that. And I fell for it for sure. He also has substance abuse, and there were times when I thought he was stewing in low self estee, and it came across as “I’m the biggest piece of s**t the world revolves around”. Like he had low self esteem and was grandiose, simultaneously?

            Outside of this website, the closest I came to understanding the behaviors was some info on “covert” narcissists. But the info here on victim lessers really cleared some thing up for me. Mine also has a background in acting, and he figured out rather quickly what “worked” on me, and what types of things made me cave and forgive him. And I would, hook, line & sinker- I fell for it for a long time.

        4. Leela says:

          According to DSM-5 some have “classic” narcissism with high self-esteem and some have very low self-esteem and it´s compensatory narcissism.

          1. HG Tudor says:

            That is incorrect. Narcissists do not have an issue with self-esteem. The ones which complain about their lot in life for example, do so as Pity Plays in order to assert control, there is nothing wrong with their self-esteem, they use circumstance to assert control and gain fuel (like any narcissist) but the circumstances will differ. The mistake is believing that the differing circumstances are a reflection of self esteem, but they are not.

          2. truthseeker6157 says:

            HG,

            That makes sense. Another small piece just clicked into place for me.
            I always felt that the MMR was the weaker of us both. Pity plays a staple manipulation. Thinking about it, I probably did suspect low self esteem was underneath it. I am stronger as it happens (allows a little flicker of pride) but I think I might let go of a bit of the guilt / feeling sorry for him thanks to your comment.

            Some comments just land right. This was one. Thank you for that.

            Wild Violet,

            I like your point about self respect. Totally agree. Something I have fought hard to keep intact during this process.

          3. HG Tudor says:

            You are welcome.

          4. lickemtomorrow says:

            My current understanding is that the core wound of narcissism is ‘shame’. Hence ‘the creature’ which must remain hidden and kept under lock and key, also requiring the need for the facade. The origin of the sense of shame does not rest with the narcissist, but the narcissism is developed as a defence mechanism to the environment and circumstances which helped to create it.

          5. HG Tudor says:

            See To Control is to Cope

          6. Leigh says:

            Mr. Tudor says, That is incorrect. Narcissists do not have an issue with self-esteem. The ones which complain about their lot in life for example, do so as Pity Plays in order to assert control, there is nothing wrong with their self-esteem, they use circumstance to assert control and gain fuel (like any narcissist) but the circumstances will differ.

            I’d like to ask a question about that. My ex narc is a burn survivor and subsequently is scarred on his face. I think if I’m understanding you correctly that he uses that as a means to get fuel and asset control through pity plays.

            My question is wouldn’t this circumstance cause low self esteem? He has always said to me that he is afraid to approach girls because of his fear of rejection. I realize that was probably a pity play as well. However, he was always very subtle and covert with his intentions and didn’t come on full force until I made it clear that I wanted to start a relationship. If he had high self esteem, why not come on strong from the beginning?

          7. HG Tudor says:

            Yes, he may use his facial injury as a Pity Play to gain control and fuel.

            No, it would not cause low self esteem. Narcissists do not have low self esteem.

          8. Chihuahuamum says:

            Narcissists dont have low self etseem…this is what i thought on the surface bc they come off overly sure of themselves but deep down how can you have self esteem if your sense of self is manufactured and fake? The foundation is crumbly. The self is fake bc of lack of true self love and acceptance from childhood. I think possibly self confidance but self esteem i cant see true healthy self esteem bc dont you need self love for that?? To accept yourself and face and acknowledge fault which a narcissist is not willing to do and cant.

          9. HG Tudor says:

            The narcissist does not know that the sense of self is manufactured, therefore, no issue with self esteem. Self-love? we love ourselves dearly, all this nonsense about narcissists actually loathing themselves is erroneous.

          10. Chihuahuamum says:

            Hi HG…i thought the need for fuel was to feed the sense of self and self acceptance? I work around a lot of either narcissists or highly narcissistic individuals and something i noticed is they can come off not caring what people think but then if you look below the surface they care a lot what people think and over minor things. This i attributed to low self esteem. I think self esteem and self confidance get coined together. Self esteem i always thought you needed self acceptance and love to be able to have.

          11. HG Tudor says:

            No, that is the need for control, it is nothing to do with self esteem.

          12. Chihuahuamum says:

            Forget to mention that narcissists dont love themselves not truely bc they never had true acceptance and love as a child. Its a self constructed love and thats where npd comes in. The creature is the whistle blower on that construct.

          13. HG Tudor says:

            No, narcissists do not love ourselves (in the way that you understand love to be) because we are incapable of it. That incapability arising from our narcissism which was created as set out in To Control is to Cope.

      3. NarcAngel says:

        HG
        I can understand the confusion over the fear and dread resulting from low fuel levels and the appearance of the creature with lack of self-esteem. In the article Try Walking in My Shoes, it opens with the narcissist locked in the bathroom and noting the negative things and feelings about self. It is not until the texts from others start to come in that there is a shift to what appears as more confidence, and it continues to build as they dress and take note of their positive and powerful aspects. Then it progresses to thoughts of the manipulations required (conscious or otherwise) to maintain the fuel levels throughout the day to keep the creature at bay. That can all be interpreted as low self-esteem bolstered by external factors (the texts and the fit of the suit, etc). Even the concept of the narcissist having a construct can be interpreted as them having no or low self-esteem and having to create it. You see it as the layering on of fuel. What then besides terminology is the difference to your mind?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Try Walking in My Shoes is nuanced as explaining it in detail would detract from the narrative. The narcissist may see the “downside” described in TWIMS but does not accept that that is him, it is regarded as a trick, a fallacy created by the creature and is rejected, therefore he or she does not accept that that is actually them, therefore their self-esteem remains high.

          1. NarcAngel says:

            Thank you HG for your response. I also revisited To Control is to Cope. If understanding correctly, the narcissist does have self-esteem. They just believe the Creature is trying to undermine it by questioning and pointing things they do not want to see. Untruths (to the narcissism). The fuelling allows the Creature to be ignored and cast aside, to focus on the greatness instead of anything presented that is perceived as weakness.

          2. HG Tudor says:

            Indeed.

        2. Kel says:

          I saw the narcissists assessment of his morning reflection in TWIMS as just being honest, not as putting himself down. He wasn’t upset about it, and it seems the same thing anyone thinks about themselves. The incoming texts distracted him and turned his attention to something that makes his day- attention and control.

          I think Empaths are more apt to suffer from low self esteem, from internalizing devaluation and not understanding it.

          Narcissists are nothing else but their reflection and no matter what it really looks like, it always looks great to them.

      4. Eternity says:

        HG , if they regard sex as fuel why do they reject intimacy?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          See the Rejection of Intimacy.

          1. Eternity says:

            Thank you HG I have listened to that one, but can the N still have sex with you and be in devaluation?

          2. HG Tudor says:

            Yes.

  9. autiempath says:

    Empath007,

    It did not offend me, just wanted to clear it up.

    1. Empath007 says:

      Thanks for doing so ! I appreciate that.

      1. autiempath says:

        My pleasure Empath007, and iam happy that it did not feel like an attack for you.

    2. Empath007 says:

      Autieempath, I am watching this Netflix reality show about dating on the spectrum. It’s so wonderful to watch all the interactions on the date, and I appreciate the respectful tone of the show. Once again thanks for chiming in, I find it interesting to learn about all different kinds of personality types.

      1. autiempath says:

        Empath007,

        Thank you for the tip, that sounds interesting!
        Can you please tell me the name of the series?
        I also find it interesting to learn about all kinds of different personalities.

        Again it is my pleasure for chiming in.
        We can learn from eachother and identify with eachother, and our experiences on this blog.
        This is of great value to me.

  10. Ren says:

    Dear all. But especially Hg.

    It’s all getting a bit silly in here. I’ve committed a malicious false hood, Voletta nearly Defected. Truth Seeker has been, urm, truth seeking. Witch is perturbed. NA has waded in.

    So putting on the serious Top Hat of Truth. And following on from TS noble lone of questioning….

    IF A narcasssit and an Empath are in a bar (go with me on this one), and the N turns to an E and says, ‘If you were a biscuit, what kind would you be,?’. And because she’s weaponised (clever), she turns round and says, ‘but what kind would you be?’

    What would be the answer to both these enquiries and to you? Jammy Dodger or Rich Tea?

    I’ll accept a cake substitute. As long as its UK based.

    1. Violetta says:

      I was in no real danger of defecting. I just didn’t consider SatN a turn-on.

      Should I read “Spanked”? Bear in mind, I’m not into B&D, S&M, or most of the alphabet soup. A little bodice-ripping is as kinky as I get, and if he knows what’s good for him, he better cut the lacing with his knife rather than ripping the actual bodice.

      Seriously, do you know how long it takes to piece those things together if you’re not a sewing maven and how much they cost if you buy a properly-fitted one?

      1. HG Tudor says:

        It is an audio.

      2. Ren says:

        Vi

        I would dearly love a custom corset.

        1. Violetta says:

          Ren:

          Honestly, so would I. Can’t afford it and don’t have the skill.

          Mid-19th corsets are far more comfortable than Renaissance. I know this from doing theatre, not from kink. Renaissance and Baroque corsets have no curve in the waist to allow mobility, plus they come all the way up the back over the shoulders, so there is really nowhere for your lungs to go. Every time I’ve done a Moliere play, I have to use my inhaler more frequently backstage, plus they are a right royal pain during the slapstick scenes.

          Should you commission one, find a reenactment group rather than a SciFi convention or a kink shop. The synthetic materials don’t breathe and you sweat to death, plus they’re usually mixed with spandex and will stretch permanently, quickly becoming useless. If it gives you proper support, I’ve been told it reduces backstrain during pregnancy (working corsets; never tight-laced), and I once found it eased cramps. (I found a cotton-blend one off the rack that just happened to fit right. A friend offered to buy it if I posted in it for him. Okay, maybe it was a little bit for kink.)

          1. blackcoffee30 says:

            I knew you’d fess up at the end, V! lol

          2. Violetta says:

            [Blushes modestly]

    2. Violetta says:

      Oh, and Florentines for me, please.

    3. Leela says:

      ..and it was a bit too much slang for poor Leela who is non-native English speaker 😀 😀 😀

  11. Ren says:

    OK

    When NA is wading in saying, have you read SATN? its frankly gone too far.

    Yes I have read it.
    It was in 2017
    I do believe it is genious
    It WAS a joke yesterday

    Look! It wasnt my fault! The Devil made me say I hadnt read it! Honest!

    Kudos on Violetta for spotting my, ahem, indiscretion.

  12. MB says:

    Witch, nobody puts HG on the bottom! Was that a DD reference?! Ha ha

    1. Witch says:

      @MB
      Someone definitely could put HG at the bottom but most women would view it as “gay,” so they probably haven’t tried

  13. Leela says:

    @Renarde: I really HIGHLY recommend “Sex and the Narcissist”. But beware: It´s really a Friday night reading. When I first read it, I couldn´t believe what I read there. I was thinking the same way as you. And then: I read the book again! WOW! It´s really super hard to believe this for us as empaths! I was shocked, I went “WTF?” and “How can THAT be?” It´s really super fascinating! Sex for people like us is passion, love, being horny, have a sexual attraction to a person… but not for the narc!

    “My” middle mid range elite narcy wants to cuddle and touch too but he´s withholding sex to ALL women at the moment! And there´s a reason WHY! You can read it in the book! 😉 Don´t wanna tell too much! 😉

  14. Violetta says:

    He took little Suzie to the Junior Prom
    Excitable boy, they all said
    And he raped her and killed her, then he took her home
    Promiscuous boy, they all said
    Well, he’s just a promiscuous boy
    After ten long years they let him out of the home
    Promiscuous boy, they all said
    And he dug up her grave and built a cage with her bones
    Promiscuous boy, they all said
    Well, he’s just a promiscuous boy

    – Warren Zevon…kind of.

    1. Ren says:

      Vi

      Yes. Disturbing that is…

  15. Zoe says:

    An ex narc left me when a gay man (who had a nice house and money) started to hang out with him all the time. Me and the gay man got into a big fight and he sided with the gay man over me. Didn’t hear from the narc again for years after that last big fight with that gay man. I asked the narc years later if he and the gay man had ever sex. He always says “no”.

    1. Empath007 says:

      Ha ! Ya right.

      1. Zoe says:

        Right.

  16. blackcoffee30 says:

    The motivation may be different, but Es do this too. I can see the N perspective. In any event, “Dick is abundant and low value.” somehow I did not take that to heart until very recently.

  17. Leela says:

    There are also the “withdrawers”, who “withdraw” sex from ALL women (“They won´t get me”), searching for the “impossibly perfect unicorn” (the perfect submissive servant, cook, housekeeper, worker, gardener, reading their thoughts and always ready to do their bidding).

    Will ask more about that on Sunday (I will be there).

  18. Renarde says:

    Sex. Such a funny thing. It can mean nothing and everything.

    The promisicous boy. Well, so was my father. As I reread this article, now at 7.20 am, he rings up. Ive not slept tonight because of his immense promiscuity and his abusive ways. And because, finally, I know I’ll never see him again. My choice. I am just not emotionally equipped to deal with him. I’ve been having nightmares again.

    This wont affect you Hg because you dont have children. But when your father cheats on your mother, he also steals the love of his children. Last night, that love ran out

    I must say my mother took it very well when I told her, I will never see him again I also told her I would scoop her up in an instant and she can live with me.

    For me, it’s not so much the act of sex but the lies that go with it. I’ll quote from my one of my favourite films, Excalibur. ‘When a man lies, he murders some part of the world.’

    Now my father is finding the world is getting very small indeed.

    1. Eternity says:

      I just came across the song Promiscuous by Nelly Furtado as I commenting on the blog. What a coinsidence.

      1. Renarde says:

        Eternity

        I get you. Synchronisities happen to me all the time.

        Trick is, just roooollll

        1. Eternity says:

          Renarde , I am seriously trying

  19. Empath007 says:

    This article I always find intriguing for
    Several reasons and I always find myself commenting.

    This may sound like a strange question, but…

    Since the sexual interaction is solely about fuel and control….
    Why do sexual preferences matter to a narc? Why would gender matter, if it’s yeilding the same results ?

    The narcs that I work with (including the one I dated although he’d deny it) were all bi sexual. And that makes sense to me. Why wouldn’t they be ? Gender seems as though it would be irrelevant in the process of gathering fuel. Having a sexual preference adds this level of humanity that confuses me.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Read Sex and the Narcissist.

      1. Empath007 says:

        Thanks HG. It’s on my to do list to get.

        The answers to your comments in this thread make sense. I’ve witnessed a few different dynamics in my own personal life. Understanding that it’s about control makes sense.

        For example, I worked with a bi sexual narc female who leaned her sexual preference towards men. Makes sense. Men would be much easier to control in the bedroom for
        Her. I’m pretty sure my narc slept with both genders. And I also have a Gay family member who was in a relationship with a “Gay” narc for years and years and put them through horrible abuse.

        It’s interesting to witness all these different dynamics.

        In the case of not being able to control a man… if a narc is dealing with a heterosexual male, they would know it’s a default the coupling wouldn’t happen, so why expend energy on something the man wouldn’t do ?? I would imagine if a narc met a homosexual they may use that to their advantage and the sexual encounter could occur.

        This would also explain why pedophiles choose children… they deem them easier to control.

        You speak of how you are not a pathetic teenage boy…. mine certainly acted like one. He would come to my house with a hard on already in place. We literally couldn’t have a conversation without it there… be it at work, at home, at a restaurant…. it was constant and it was embarrassing. So some of your kind do act like pathetic teenage boys ! I can attest !

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Numerous narcissists are pathetic, of course they will not see that and ultimately it is irrelevant so long as the prime aims are achieved.

          1. Empath007 says:

            Haha ! To be honest after a while I think he did it to piss me off on purpose. But I always felt like… can we please have a conversation without your penis involved ?

      2. Eternity says:

        5 star on Amazon Review !

      3. FoolMe1Time says:

        HG,
        I truly like your tangerine swim trunks. I have to admit though, I like them because they show off those gorgeous legs!! I also love being a groupie to such a brilliantly amazing man!!

        If everyone would read Sex they would know that sex is just another way to obtain fuel! If you needed to use it to gain prime aims from a man you would. Since you are who you are that is something you do not need to do. Also if there was another way to gain the fuel you receive from sex, you would use it, it is not about the sex!

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Thank you FM1T.

        2. MB says:

          FM1T, I’ve heard he can bake a delightfully delicious empathy cake! 😋

          1. Fool Me 1 Time says:

            MB,
            I bet that’s not all he can bake?! 😋

    2. Witch says:

      I could be wrong about this but I don’t think narcs are completely without human instincts. Yeah they are primarily driven by fuel. But I’m sure they have sexual instincts and responses in the background.
      To be honest though I think most people (including normals) are more flexible than what they care to admit

      1. HG Tudor says:

        Sex is a means of obtaining control and fuel, do not make the mistake of imposing your world view on ours and thinking it is the same, it is not.

        1. Witch says:

          Ok but then why do you feel differently about women than you do men?

          1. HG Tudor says:

            They are easier to control.

          2. Witch says:

            Eerrrmmmm
            Very interesting! And also the dating pool is larger and also because most straight women would not want to be with an openly bisexual man? And generally it’s just easier for you socially?

            I’m just curious though do you feel a sexual response to men? Like gay porn? Or anything?

          3. HG Tudor says:

            No, I do not feel a sexual response to men. I do not need to be sexual with a man to control them, hence sex is not used. I use sex with women to control, alongside other methods as well.

          4. Alexissmith2016 says:

            Interesting. Women are easier to control HG, this is why you seduce them?

            Is it all men are more difficult to control or simply men who have sex with other men? Or have I missed the point?

            Why do some Ns, particularly somatic and elite have sex with both sexes? Would a male and female N both find it more difficult to control a male?

          5. HG Tudor says:

            No, they are easier to control because I seduce them. Men are also easy to control, but for different reasons.

            See my response to Renarde for your other questions.

          6. Witch says:

            This is what I’m trying to grasp here…
            If you don’t have a sexual response to men but you do for women, even if it’s about control in the act, you still have a sexual preference?

          7. HG Tudor says:

            See answer given to Renarde´s comment.

        2. CurlyMe says:

          Watch them squirm in delight when the performance is on, and giving them the most devoted pleasure they have ever known (and they so openly admitting to that also!) = feeling in control

          Watch them suffer when some time later you refuse to perform anything, and you have no sexual interests at all = feeling even more in control

          The release of sexual tension / the sexual pleasure itself is bonus, but can also be perfectly achieved on your own. So that is never the goal.

        3. blackcoffee30 says:

          “They are easier to control.” Why? Cultural? Patriarchy? Misogyny? Biological sex (assuming female sex not intersex)? Other?

          1. HG Tudor says:

            Because of the use of sex and what that envelopes.

          2. blackcoffee30 says:

            I’m going to take that as mostly cultural then. Being very well educated and worldly, you know how women are treated and viewed differently throughout the world, etc. etc. The use of the sex act with the female sex would be strikingly different in a culture that practices FGM or honor killing with the attendant views.

            (You also know what I do IRL.)

      2. Leela says:

        No they don´t have those instincts. NO narcissist is really into sex! They are horrified by intimacy! They prefer porn and masturbation over real adult sex.

        Sex is only a tool to obtain fuel (somatic narcs), ensnare, control and manipulate.

        Some have learnt how to do it properly and all others are just horrible between the sheets. 😀

        True story, sister! 😉

        1. Renarde says:

          Leela

          That’s simply not true. You are describing a Cerebral there.

          You have a point on intimacy with all narcs, our world views are different.

          A MME I knew couldnt get enough. Forever wanting to cuddle, hold my hand. But it’s not true connection. Indeed, the last night we spent together, he was wrapped around me like an octopus, almost as if I’d run out an escape during the night. I looked at the window whilst lying there and thought, ‘I’ve got to get out of here!’.

          That makes him sound clingy but he wasnt actually. He was EXTREMELY protective but would rather have died than let me know it.

          1. Leela says:

            Read “Sex and the Narcissist”. Of course some narcs can´t get enough sex or cuddling, because they obtain FUEL from it. Your ET makes you think that it´s real passion or whatever but it´s not! It´s ALL JUST FUEL 😉

            “My” narc is also middle mid range elite and a “withholder”. He doesn´t gather fuel by sex.

          2. Renarde says:

            Leela

            You are such a sweetheart! I shall have to ead this SATN. Sounds very mysterious! And Hg wrote it you say? He is clearly a man of many talents indeed!

            I’m only going to read it if it turns me on though.

            x

          3. truthseeker6157 says:

            Renarde,

            Worked for me.
            Several times.

          4. Violetta says:

            Renarde:

            I’m afraid it didn’t turn me on at all. Relieved considerable confusion and self-doubt, but no sexual tension. Oh, well.

            Think I should try Sam Vaknin for thrills? He looks awfully hairy–sort of like Benito Hoover, Lenina’s fallback date to the Aurora Bora Palace in BNW.

          5. Ren says:

            TS

            That’s intresting to know! I shall have to affect a purchase!

          6. Ren says:

            Vi

            You know I had my brief sojourn as Darth Renaradus. But is it really truly worth going over to the Darkside and the bullfrog of Vankin?

            I implore you! Think of the tangerine shorts! And the legs!

            Won’t someone think of the legs!

          7. Violetta says:

            Renarde:

            The legs are very nice indeed, but it’s the voice that does it for me.

            Vaknin sounds like every STEM T.A. I’ve ever had.

          8. truthseeker6157 says:

            You hadn’t read SATN Renarde?! I thought you were joking!!

          9. Ren says:

            Vi

            Thank the Goddess! We talked you down! Because to my mind, it’s not only the Dark side full of indescribable babble (a bit like you see in Student Union bars with undergrads) but actually it’s a Defection.

            We would hate to lose you and especially to Him!

            Hold onto the voice. I’ll hold onto the TANGERINE (!) shorts. Alexis, well let’s have her take the legs. Deal?

          10. Ren says:

            TS

            Oh sweetie! Of course I’ve SATN!

            Was my little joke!

          11. Alexissmith2016 says:

            Happy to help Ren and Vi

          12. Violetta says:

            Alexis:

            Dibs have been called on legs, tangerine board shorts, and voice, so put in your bid fast. Places are filling up.

          13. Ren says:

            Violetta, Alexis and The Learned Counsel of NS, This Court is now in session [gavel]

            Judge Renarde in attendance. [Adjusts wig]

            We now preside over the virtual, material and legal estates (forewin and of), of one Mister Hg Tudor, esq. If that is even his REAL name!

            [Mutterings happen]

            As High Risen Palladin, I have now placed myself in the position of Literary Executor. And the royalties. Obviously.

            No objection I see? Good. And the board shorts.

            Ms Alexis, are you placing a motion on legs?

            There is plenty for this Court to decide upon.

            Learned Counsel, I await your opening statements.

            [gavel]

          14. HG Tudor says:

            Judges in English courts do not use gavels. Elementary error. Guilty of an offence of impersonating a designated officer, contrary to section 23(1) of the Crime and Courts Act 2013. Sentenced to 51 weeks imprisonment.

          15. Violetta says:

            Ren is on the naughty step! Ren is on the naughty step!

            That’ll teach you to pretend you never read SATN. You’ve been begging for it for a while, and you finally got it.

          16. Alexissmith2016 says:

            Bloody hell! I haven’t been paying attention but he’s guilty! On all bloody counts too. I know that much.

          17. Ren says:

            [Psst Hg]

            I know that! I was using artistic license!

            Now, if you dont stop with you wicked (and dare I say it, oh yes, I dare), high faulting ways, your bloody orange shorts will not be going to the Smithsonian!

            [gavel]

          18. HG Tudor says:

            No, you did not.

          19. truthseeker6157 says:

            Renarde,

            I think he means you’ll be needing your wheelie case.

        2. truthseeker6157 says:

          Renarde you are killing me here! Proper laughing

          1. Ren says:

            TS

            Ahh that’s good. A wise man once said to me, much older btw, laughter truly helps.

            But you are also cracking me up! You are posting very valid questions on what the narcasssit actually feels? That’s not making me laugh, it’s just the variations on ‘So, a narcasssit walks into a bar’0
            .

            Genious.

            Pin Hg down I say!

          2. truthseeker6157 says:

            Renarde,

            Ha ha. That’s exactly what I’m doing! I want to know how things feel from his side. I can’t get a proper picture without knowing how things feel, or equally don’t feel.

            A narcissist walks into a bar.

            ‘Ouch’

            Had to be done didn’t it?

          3. Ren says:

            TS

            Carry on asking questions I say! How do we ever learn anything otherwise?

            You are on the right track.

            And bloody hell, get the EDC done. It will work wonders. You’re a good egg x

            If you dont mind, Judge Renarde is is preciding over ‘matters’. So I’ve got Court Bundles out of me ears!

          4. truthseeker6157 says:

            Ren,

            Did the EDC a while ago. I understand me, I just don’t understand them ha ha.

            Do you want me to drop off some clean clothes? Now that HG has sent you ‘down’?
            Or, are you sending him ‘down’ ?

            I’m not sure which is which. But the view from up here in the jury stand is most entertaining! I wonder if there’ll be a queue at the burger stand at half time …..

        3. Ren says:

          I do not believe I granted the defendant permission to make a statement.

          This is unfortunate.

          Ms Violetta, I believe you wanted ‘voice’?

          This Bench is now taking under consideration your remarks. In light of other evidence being presented.

          Any private litigation on matters about my ‘alleged’ falsehoods on Narcsite.com are a matter for the Civil Court. As soon as Depp vs The Sun is finished, I’m up next.

          I shall plead ‘temporary loss of sanity’

          That should do the trick!

          1. HG Tudor says:

            You are in no position to grant permission. Contempt of court, have another 14 weeks to the 51 weeks to get a grip.

      3. blackcoffee30 says:

        @Witch Vicarious trauma you say? Did you really just recently get around to SATN? Interesting questions you pose. SATN is literally the only work I am afraid to read/listen to. I have A LOT A LOT of issues surrounding sex. Like, A LOT.

        I want to read it, but haven’t mustered the emotional bandwidth. I fear that it’s too soon since detachment, and I shouldn’t push it.

        I venture to say that sex is a commodity to me. Most of the time. All of the time.

        1. Violetta says:

          Blackcoffee30:

          I was scared too, but I found it helpful. It hurt less than a flu shot.

          1. blackcoffee30 says:

            Haha! Flu shots don’t hurt, but I’m not quite ready.

        2. Witch says:

          @BC
          Yeah vicarious trauma.
          Didn’t really care for it in relation to the narcs I’ve been with because I been knew they were pedators anyway.
          But I felt traumatised by the examples HG gave in relation to his victims. Praying on virgins, lesbians etc..HG is gross as fuck. I’m just being honest.
          It’s worth reading though.

          1. blackcoffee30 says:

            Yesterday, I got into an argument over virginity as a social construct. I wanted to remove it from the assessment because it is a social construct and whether or not the pre-pubescent female was a “virgin” at the time of the rape should have been irrelevant to the investigation. I lost the argument, but it was culturally significant in the context being discussed (I guess *eye roll*). It was being used as a defense. I digress.

            Thanks for sharing your observations I will stay well away for now because I have enough secondary trauma and am not ready to face my demons yet. XO

          2. Violetta says:

            To clarify, HG’s focus is on seducing all of the above, not forcing them. Forcing them wouldn’t allow him the triumph of knowing that he succeeded where others failed.

          3. Witch says:

            @BC

            You may want to give it a miss if you’re feeling sensitive.
            I can’t even listen to HG’s voice right now… I tried to listen to the bonus material after donating and had to lock it off

          4. Witch says:

            @violetta
            Forced or seduced the purpose is to push people’s boundaries. He’s still gross. I don’t care

          5. blackcoffee30 says:

            @Violetta “Forcing them wouldn’t allow him the triumph of knowing that he succeeded where others failed.”

            To be clear, SATN is about seduction, correct? It does not apply to Ns who get off on non-consensual sex? There’s been much discussion on KTN about rape and sexual abuse committed by Ns. There’s “A Very Guilty Narcissist,” and I hope HG writes an article on Epstein.

          6. blackcoffee30 says:

            @Witch. I hear ya. I’ve been taking days away from KTN here and there. To clear my head.

    3. DrHouse says:

      Narcs are gender fluid. They are humping anything by the count of three if they can get something out of it, from the high of the orgasm to high of gettin drugs literally.
      And one thing. If there are drugs involved, like for example meth, you better lock up your sheep. ; )

      1. Witch says:

        I’m just curious as to why some narcs prefer a certain sex. If women are easier to control, why do some Male narcs prefer men.. the challenge? Or it’s more to do with fucking their reflection?
        I’ve just noticed that certain narcs appear to have a type in looks, sex and race/ethnicity. I understand that in desperation they would do anything for the fuel

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Because they find men easier to control through sex.

          1. DrHouse says:

            Men have smaller brains. It consists of two small units.

        2. alexissmith2016 says:

          Interesting Witch, do you think this is the somatic Ns?

          1. Witch says:

            @alexis
            No not necessarily the somatic N’s but most of them tend to have a preference in looks.
            My parents do. (They are victims)
            My mum would probably accept whatever man for fuel, but if she’s watching the TV or flirting with someone she will have certain preferences for looks.

          2. alexissmith2016 says:

            Witch, I can’t reply to you directly on the other thread. But wet towels on my bed!!!!! Get out of town!!!

      2. Renarde says:

        DrHouse

        No, that’s not true either. I dont percieve Hg is and my big ex would have simply killed anyone if they’d suggested it.

        I’m genderfluid but being GF doesnt run with orientation. I’m completely straight.

        In fact a narc I knew said he was bi but I suggested he was a hedonist. Which he agreed with Acid test surely is, would you want an actual relationship with your own gender?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          All narcissists have sexual fluidity, but not all narcissists demonstrate it because it is unnecessary. The Prime Aims are what are necessary and certain narcissists can achieve them by having sex with some people and not others, whereas other narcissists exhibit their sexual fluidity more readily to achieve the prime aims. I could, if required, engage in a sexual act with a man in order to secure the Prime Aims, however, it has never proven necessary for me to do so because I achieve the Prime Aims from a range of appliances and use differing methods to obtain the Prime Aims from those appliances. Those differing methods have meant I use sex with regard to women and do not need to use sex with regard to men, hence I behave in a heterosexual manner.

          1. Witch says:

            Ok but HG,
            When you see a woman whom you are checking out, do you fancy her? Like does blood rush to your face and your penis and does your heart beat harder?
            And when you look at men you can think they are decent looking but you don’t feel drawn to them in that way?
            I’m not just talking about behaviour here but feelings/responses

          2. HG Tudor says:

            No, I am a narcissistic psychopath not some pathetic teenage boy.

          3. alexissmith2016 says:

            one final question on this point. So for those Ns who do have ‘hidden’ sexual fluidity (for the purpose of the facade) e.g. a married man, who has multiple IPSSs. Would they typically have a preference for one sex over another in terms of IPSSs or just whoever is available and able to fulfil the prime aims/ provides the most fuel etc thanks so much

          4. HG Tudor says:

            It would accord with the nature of the facade.

          5. Witch says:

            “No, I am a narcissistic psychopath not some pathetic teenage boy.”

            Erm is this just something you compartmentalise and you don’t want to relate to, not because it’s never happened, but because you don’t want to feel like you’re a basic bitch?

          6. HG Tudor says:

            No, it doesn’t happen because I am a narcissistic psychopath.

          7. Violetta says:

            HG:

            But you were a pathetic teenage boy, because all teenagers are pathetic.

            I’d rather be shot than live it over. Well, except for that one night, and the other one.

          8. HG Tudor says:

            No, you are wrong. I was a teenage boy, I was far from pathetic.

          9. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Violetta, for some reason your comment of the pathetic poor boy started sounding in my head like Bohemian Rhapsody. Scaramouche, Scaramouche!

          10. Violetta says:

            What about Amanda?

            That was pretty pathetic. Charmingly pathetic, but still pathetic. How many readers wished they were Amanda when they read that?

          11. HG Tudor says:

            You may regard it as pathetic, I regard it as effective.

            You referred to me as a pathetic teenage boy, you did not write a teenage boy who engaged in a pathetic act, so you have been doubly inaccurate.

          12. Renarde says:

            Fascinating!

          13. Renarde says:

            I think Witch’s comment is very intresting.

            I might for example be attracted to a man for many reasons. But if I want to fuck them,xrare,then there has to be something behind it. A magnetism if you will.

            So I do think it’s a valid point that me learned friend is posting.

            When you see an attractive woman, how do you feel?

          14. HG Tudor says:

            That question can only merit the response of “it depends on a variety of factors.”

          15. Witch says:

            “No, it doesn’t happen because I am a narcissistic psychopath.”

            …..wow
            I mean, this is very shocking to me, I don’t even understand how all this is possible. You don’t even get a tingly feeling in your loins? That’s kinda shit .. well at least you’re never distracted I guess.

            Are you certain all narcs feel this way? Because not all narcs are psychopaths right?

          16. HG Tudor says:

            A tingly feeling in my loins from looking at an attractive woman in a bar? No. I repeat, I am not a teenage boy who gets a hard on from the wind.

          17. Witch says:

            @Renarde
            I’m still perplexed
            So this basically means narcs are a-sexual, like what…
            I don’t get it

          18. Witch says:

            Sorry HG but I’m still in a state of confusion.
            So… how do you erm…get turned on? You get turned on by fuel?
            do you not get aroused by the goodies?
            Im not saying as soon as you see an attractive woman your third leg is doing a full kick, but you know .. you feel something.
            How do you determine if a woman is physically attractive, is what I’m saying?

          19. HG Tudor says:

            Read Sex and the Narcissist, this is why I write the books, to save me repeating myself.

          20. Violetta says:

            “You referred to me as a pathetic teenage boy, you did not write a teenage boy who engaged in a pathetic act, so you have been doubly inaccurate.”

            I don’t consider wanking or having crushes pathetic.

          21. HG Tudor says:

            Then what on earth are you referring to? I suggest you stop.

          22. Ren says:

            Vi

            Oh no, I found the Amanda story to be utterly charming actually!

            Even if we go to man in a bar instance. Any man that got, ahem, ‘an incident’ whilst looking at me for example would simply not interest me. That is THOROUGHLY in teenage boy department.

            If i surreptitiously clocked it, I’d be making my excuses and leave.

            It’s not the mark of a man or a gentleman

          23. Eternity says:

            HG, very well explained. Fuel is not only sex it is a wide range of things I learned that in the book Fuel.

          24. Ren says:

            Witch

            I dont get it either. SATN does explain it. Yes a physical reaction from being sexually with a woman. I’m sure Hg is human, so he has those responses. My taking of SATN is that he knows that, he gets that. Its about control. Either by giving or denying.

            I know, it’s a headfuck.

          25. Violetta says:

            “Then what on earth are you referring to? I suggest you stop.”

            I’m referring to feeling ashamed of those things. Sometimes, your psychopathy seems downright puritanical.

            Seriously, I’m trying to understand a mindset that is completely alien. I felt ashamed when I made out with boys I didn’t like or desire because we were on a date or at a party and Everybody Does It, or he shared his weed with me, or I was depressed and it was something to do. I was ashamed because it was dishonest and a mutual use.

            I’m not the least bit ashamed of anything I did with a guy I loved or even thought I loved. Or of fantasizing about doing more.

            But I have to remind myself that you regard these things as weaknesses.

            Okay, now I’ll stop. It might be too late, but you asked what I was referring to, and I wanted to answer.

          26. HG Tudor says:

            Thank you for clarifying.

          27. NarcAngel says:

            Renarde
            Not much surprises me, but I am shocked beyond that you haven’t read SATN in all the time you’ve been here and discussing sex. What in the actual fuck are you waiting for?

            Girl……

          28. NarcAngel says:

            SATN is in my top 3 of HG’s books of required reading and I am not even a love devotee. Much of their behaviours (and not only sexual) can be clarified by reading that book alone, and for less than a slice and a pint.

            That should be a qualifier from now on. If you haven’t read SATN…

            NO SOUP FOR YOU! Haha.

          29. HG Tudor says:

            Agreed.

          30. Kel says:

            Somatic’s live, eat and breath sex. They get their fuel using sexuality. They have gender preferences, but anyone who can be seduced by them, and crave them, is doable. I have no doubt whatsoever that my narc boss did occasionally partake with men, but it was a different relationship with them where the men didn’t get as hung up and personal as women do. I suspected an old narc boyfriend was fooling around for awhile with his old pal. I worked with a couple of guys that were old pals, one married, the other gay, that always went to lunch together and both ended up with a fever blister on their lip simultaneously, plus the gay one was chatting about him on the phone one day to someone.

            Some narcissists are Cerebral. They impress with knowledge. Occasionally their somatic side takes over, and they concentrate on their physique and they consume themselves with sex, and after a short while, they go back to everything cerebral.

            My brother was cerebral, he said when he was a kid, everyone was talking how smart he was, so learning everything became important to him. He was gay- he found out in high school when he noticed he was more attracted to his girlfriends brother than he was to her. He always had women friends, lifelong from high school, as well as male. He was such a cool guy, he was witty, and you wouldn’t know he was gay other than he dressed very well, didn’t talk sports, or about women. My brother commented once that he had nice legs, he loved to impress people with his car or finer things, he was an ace at jeopardy, he was our ‘google’ before the Internet existed, he finished the sentences of a doctor I used to date. I believe there are different kinds of cerebrals.

            Narcissists are red blooded humans with desires like everyone else. Somatic’s are focused on the body, and are ready, willing and able for any opportunity that rises with any gender who can make them feel good narcissistically. Cerebral’s focus is on the mind, not seducing sexually.

          31. Violetta says:

            Full disclosure: After my first make-out session, with a 9th-grade boy I’d been crushing on for an entire school year, I raved to my 8th-grade friends (in the girl’s room of course), “On Saturday, I made out with So-and-So!”

            A group of 9th graders catching a smoke at the other end looked at me with utter contempt. Not because I was a slut; they’d done worse, but because I was boasting about it. It dawned on me that talking about things like that was Not Done, Bad Form, or whatever label you want to apply to something totally unKewl.

            Now that was pathetic.

          32. Witch says:

            @renarde
            I read most of Sex last night, (just to warn you, you may suffer a little bit of voracious trauma.)
            It made me want to retire my vagina to the nunnery. I held my GF this morning, like thank fuck for her existence.

            I still don’t understand how HG determines who is physically attractive to him. Fuel attractive yes. But not physically attractive. Maybe I will never fully comprehend it.
            But sex and the narcissist is giving me the creeps.

          33. HG Tudor says:

            See Sitting Target with regard to physical attractiveness.

          34. Witch says:

            I meant vicarious trauma lol
            I have skimmed sitting target and I know you said something about prefering women who are “conventionally attractive” or whatever.
            But I mean, is it the same as looking at the patterns on a rug and being like “ah that’s a nice pattern”
            Or do you actually have any physical sensations, at all?
            I guess not. It’s just very alien to me

          35. HG Tudor says:

            Yes, of course we have physical sensations, we have nerve endings like you, but it is not the pursuit of pleasure alone that drives us, it is the pursuit of the Prime Aims. The sensations arising from sex for instance would come within residual benefits, but residual benefits fall behind fuel and control in terms of importance.

          36. Witch says:

            Ok HG I
            understand that
            So this is want I’m trying to say and work out…
            So you do have a semi-innate instinct towards women that you do not have for men? Although you could have sex with a man if you happened to be interested in the fuel? And I would imagine in such a scenario you would not be interested in being the bottom?

          37. HG Tudor says:

            In essence, yes.

          38. Witch says:

            Just to elaborate on my perspective, I don’t believe sexual orientation is solely an “identity” .. that’s like saying I identify with having 10 fingers and 10 toes.. it’s partly in your genes, like narcissism.

          39. Supernova DE says:

            Violetta,
            “Seriously, I’m trying to understand a mindset that is completely alien. I felt ashamed when I made out with boys I didn’t like or desire because we were on a date or at a party and Everybody Does It, or he shared his weed with me, or I was depressed and it was something to do. I was ashamed because it was dishonest and a mutual use.

            I’m not the least bit ashamed of anything I did with a guy I loved or even thought I loved. Or of fantasizing about doing more.”

            I could have easily written this about myself, if I could have stood to be so honest! “Mutual use” is a good way for me to describe most of my interactions with men, except for my husband.

          40. Witch says:

            Phew
            20 questions later and I’m finally at peace

        2. DrHouse says:

          I give you a small hint. Have you noticed HGs pretty red shorts.

          Sexuality is a sensitive subject.
          I will say only this, people have killed themself and others out of their shame and society made pressure.
          Narcissistic personality disorder is deeply intertwined with shame.
          You won’t hear HG bragging about the men that sucked him off, its just not mainstream cool. Also the female groupies are a great income source.
          On a serious note, my father is build like an Viking, he knocked people out in front of my eyes when someone would disrespect him, he was calling people all the bad words about gay man. But guess what, I knew his secret since I was a teenager. And I never told him or my mother.
          Watch the Movie American Beauty, it’s a good one.
          Case closed.

          1. HG Tudor says:

            1. They are tangerine, not red.
            2. Sexuality is not a sensitive subject. It might be to you, it is not to me.
            3. I do not brag about the men that have sucked me off because that has not happened. If it had, I would have no difficulty in confirming as such. Have you read Sex and the Narcissist?
            4. You do a disservice to describe readers as female groupies.

          2. Ren says:

            DrH and Hg

            I bloody KNEW those shorts were more orange than red!

            Yeah, agree, sex is not a sensitive subject for me either. To be that way places to much emphasis on sex.

            I was with a bi man for two years

            I know how this stuff goes down and it bothers me not one jot. I do appreciate a lot of women who might describe themselves as hetero flexible who will flat out refuse to be with a bi man which an unforgivable double standard.

            Please do not assume what I know or dont know. AB is a very moving film.Know it well.

            Hg, is SATN worth me buying and reading? Will I enjoy it?

          3. HG Tudor says:

            It is remiss that you have failed to read it so far, Renarde, it is required reading.

          4. Ren says:

            DrH

            I’m just going to pick up on the groupie question.

            Well say it if you wish. You’re entitled to your opinion.

            I think this dovetails neatly into the money question overall. I find it’s quite difficult sometimes to praise ‘The Work’ without sounding like a Tudorite.

            You might have a point if he was writing drivel. He isnt. Yes, there is banter on the boards which amuses me greatly. Only just now two big posters have displayed concern over my insomina.

            I have a rough idea how much it costs to run the site. It’s not a handful of beans, pretty sure on that!

            Over and over we go, new posters who whine saying, why don’t you do this for free, Hg?

            I hope this answers your concerns.

          5. truthseeker6157 says:

            Mmmm, tangerine is my favourite colour of swim shorts.

            Your Groupie x

          6. HG Tudor says:

            Ha ha, very good.

          7. Ren says:

            Dear Hg

            I have purchased it now. My great apologies.

            Eep! What WILL it contain?

          8. HG Tudor says:

            Jolly good.

          9. Alexissmith2016 says:

            HG is there does the school or narc affect whether the N is sexually fluid or not? Or is it more dependent on the cadre?

          10. HG Tudor says:

            All narcissists have sexual fluidity, as explained some do not utilise it because it is unnecessary to do so. The school and cadre which shows sexual fluidity the most is Upper Lesser Type A Somatic – they will fuck woman, man, transexual, animal, vegetable or mineral.

          11. Violetta says:

            House:

            I’ve seen no evidence that HG is homophobic. He just doesn’t seem terribly interested. He’ll emotionally torture male co-workers or acquaintances who get in his way, but he doesn’t seek them out the way he does female intimate partners.

            If Fuel is to HG what sexuality is to most people, then he’s hetero, as much as he’s anything.

            I’ve met more than a few closet cases in theatre, although most are out-n-proud. The common thread is TriHard manly male masculinity whilst Protesting Too Much, which HG hasn’t done.

          12. HG Tudor says:

            Accurate.

            As I have explained previously, I have no prejudices, I hate everybody equally.

          13. Violetta says:

            Ren:

            When you say you have never read SATN, are you engaging in what you British people call “sarcasm”?

          14. Ren says:

            Vi

            Ha ha!

            It is. But not maliciously to Lovely Leela.

            I saw the comment and I couldn’t resist!

            Leela, if you’re reading this, I do apologise.

            I first read SATN late 17. In fact I read it the other day for ‘research purposes’.

          15. Ren says:

            Hg

            UL type A? Very interesting.

          16. Supernova DE says:

            HG,
            Regarding sexual fluidity – would it be correct to assume all narcissists utilize pornography of all sexual orientations/classification? Including those male “homophobic” type mid rangers?

          17. HG Tudor says:

            Please see Sex and the Narcissist https://gum.co/JBqtY

          18. Dr. HQ says:

            Dr. H,

            HG doesn’t experience shame. He’s very psychopathic. The typical narcissist does. HG’s emotional range is more restricted.

        3. truthseeker6157 says:

          Can I just check my understanding here please?

          I’m straight. So I go into a bar and I am likely to chat to the guy that I’m physically attracted to. During conversation I find out if I’m drawn to him emotionally, like his personality, see he is unmarried etc. So my decisions really are based around personality, attraction and the fact he’s male. Think that about covers it.

          When you go into a bar, your requirements are broader. You are considering how much fuel is likely to be obtained, but also, whether this person likely fits with your own preferred manipulations, can they further your career, and social standing? Do they fit the facade? Are they good looking enough to fit your social group as a minimum? Will you gain kudos from having this person on your arm as as a maximum. Do they look well heeled? Are they connected? Will they slot into the inner circle? It’s calculated, rather than a natural attraction.

          As a general rule women cater to these criteria better so you approach women as opposed to men. They simply fit with your strengths in terms of preferred manipulation and submission to your personal control more easily. If a man could tick all of those boxes then you would have no issue having a man as IPPS. Therefore, the non sex related aspects have greater significance for you than for me, and are dealt with right from the get go. Is this what you mean or am I misunderstanding?

          1. HG Tudor says:

            The assessment of who will cater to the Prime Aims to the greatest efficacy is explained in Sitting Target. The sexual behaviour of the narcissist is detailed in Sex and the Narcissist.

          2. truthseeker6157 says:

            Thanks HG,

            I read Sitting Target pretty early after arriving here, was looking for something specific at the time though so I’ll re read.

            You’re suggesting I re read SATN too? Ohhh ok, if I must……

          3. Ren says:

            TS

            I’m sure there is a joke in here…

            ‘A narcasssit and an empath walk into a bar…’

          4. MB says:

            TS6157, If I we’re to go into a bar, I’d gravitate straight toward the narcissist in the room. It’s like a magnetic pull. (Well, before HG.) I would like to think I’d do better now.

          5. Sweetest Perfection says:

            MB, if you go into a bar the narcissist will gravitate immediately to you. At least that’s what happened to me. However I also thought he was the best looking person I had seen in my life and wanted to eat him alive. Hahaha. Ahhh, addictions…

          6. MB says:

            SP, “eat him alive” Yes. Same. With a spoon! I’m an addict too 🤦‍♀️

          7. HG Tudor says:

            You are empaths, therefore you are addicts.

          8. MB says:

            You are 100% correct, Sir. There was a time I’d have argued that I’m no addict, but resistance is futile. You’ve given me the tools to manage my addiction and I am forever a grateful groupie.

          9. HG Tudor says:

            To recognise that you are an addict and to know you have the tools through my work to manage that addiction is logic.

          10. truthseeker6157 says:

            Hello MB 🙂

            I know what you mean with that. If it was a Greater, I imagine him too over the top for my taste. Too showy. That would keep me away. Quietly confident, dressed well, nice smile, warmth, that would no doubt draw me in. I don’t know if you are like me with this, but if you consider a first conversation, a first meet, I expect a lot. In that, I expect a proper conversation. Tell me something. Share something. Do not expect me to listen or engage with small talk. I honestly think the combination of emotional empathy from me and the cognitive empathy displayed by the narc is where the draw lies for me. That might be your magnetism part.

            You won’t get that depth of conversation straight away with a normal. You will from an empath or a narc. I’m reading and really trying to understand the narcissism side better. Taking my own personal relationship out of it and focussing more on the players in the game. The Empath, the Narcissist and this mutual attraction / addiction. I’ve narrowed down a few elements that I believe form part of the addiction, I’m questioning HG and trying to get a fix on others. It fascinates me.
            I think going forward, if I felt that instant connection, that depth of conversation, sadly I would have to question if the person I was talking to was a narcissist. Normals don’t seem to lock on in the same way until later. I don’t know if that is of any use to you and the way you see your own interactions or experiences. That’s where I’m up to at this point.

          11. alexissmith2016 says:

            Ren – I’m thinking more along the lines of How many narcs do you need to change a lightbulb…none because they have a hareem of empaths to do it for them.

            My name is alexis and I’m an addict.

            HG does it mean that it is only empaths and narcs who suffer addiction problems generally (not just to narcs). So a normal is far less likely to?

          12. HG Tudor says:

            No, anybody can have an addiction. It is only empaths who have addictions to narcissists.

        4. Dr. HQ says:

          Power and control are enough to turn some people on…

          Playing games with people can give people a hard on because it’s mental stimulation – a challenge – a game – a hunt- and it’s power and control

          Sex is tool to gain power & control:
          A.) You can get people to bond and attach – thinking there is some connection when it’s one sided.
          B.) Giving someone pleasure – people like feeling good physically – it’s a release – if you’re good at it people come back for more – makes ya feel accomplished lol and they come back most of the time because they like to feel gooooood lol
          C.) fueling someone’s self-esteem – throw in those people who associate sex with being loved or feeling loved
          D.) using it to simply trade for money or a position of power

          1. Ren says:

            Dr HQ

            Well stated. Especially on power and control.

          2. Dr. HQ says:

            The hunt is always the best part. The planning, the games, the tension, the intellectual stimulation – it can make you feel alive.

            Even I don’t look at someone and go wow I’m getting the tingles lol. I need to be engaged and like need that low key power play. I need the stimulation – the back and forth – the challenge.

            It’s like a rush. The dopamine feels so good lol. It’s never enough. It’s hard to get that from anyone neurotypical. It’s just…not the same.

          3. Chihuahuamum says:

            Hi Dr. HQ…your post about the dopamine and power rush i think about a lot in relation to the narc and that is just it, it alters the brain’s activity much like a drug and why its so toxic. I live this day to day. Maybe not to the same extent as some other relationships, but i have become used to this. I think a lot how life would be without this and being without that rush and i fear id be depressed and alone. That is what’s kept me from doing what i know i should be doing. It’s an addiction and one that isnt good.
            Id watched a video on long term abuse and the fact it can damage areas of the brain. I dont know how true this is but its scary. Any decision in life has consequences. Longterm addiction to intermittent reinforcement and dopamine rushes arent good mentally or physically.
            Soon neurotypical seems not normal.

          4. Dr. HQ says:

            I lack dopamine as it is lol

            It’s hard enough for things to wake me up on the inside due to my ADHD and depression so In walks a psychopath and boom we are buddies lol

          5. Violetta says:

            Chihuahua Mum:

            I read a study about seratonin rushes. I forget the exact numbers, but it was something like eating chocolate gets you a 100% spike, cuddling a puppy or a baby is 200%, sex is 300%, cocaine is 600%, meth is 1200%.

            As meth addicts develop tolerance, they don’t get as much of a rush. Eventually, their bodies “forget” how to make their own happy chemicals, and they’re doing meth because when they don’t, they dip below ground zero, or a neutral point.

            Imagine the worst depression ever, the insecurity and self-consciousness the drug seemed to replace with endless confidence and sex appeal now expanded to a black hole in space, from which you can never escape.

            The part that scared me shitless was that after former meth-heads get clean, they may never get back up to the neutral set-point. A year and a half after kicking, heroin addicts may regain their ability to generate their own happiness chemicals, but recovered meth-heads may never go higher than about 80% of their pre-use capacity.

            This is the most terrifying thing I can think of. It scares me more than the puking and shakes of smackhead cold turkey. Can you imagine NEVER feeling entirely happy again, no matter what happens? Well, yes I can, because I went through it when I was detoxing from Wanna-Be Playuh-Narc, and I thought it was permanent. I was desperate for a hit of WBPN, even though I knew that was what had caused my misery in the first place; I’d survived all kinds of dysfunction growing up, but my mood swings always had an up-cycle–until WBPN.

            It wasn’t just lack of major joy; I lost my ability to have basic fun. Rock concerts, Christmas dinner at Aquavit, shopping for clothes, seeing a good movie on a date–all of them became areas of the worst self-doubt I’ve had since adolescence. Could other concertgoers tell I wasn’t that familiar with the band’s work? (Why would I think they cared?) That guy with the ponytail at Aquavit who looked like WBPN from the back, would he consider me un-shagworthy too? WBPN would never see me in this outfit, my love life was nothing like the girl’s in the movie, blah blah blah. …

            I’d rather get cirrhosis, delirium tremens, cold sweats, nausea, diarrhea, and the rest of the detox horrors than once again lose my ability to be happy about anything, ever. I’ve been curious about E-or Special-K, but I’ve never been the slightest bit tempted to try Meth since I learned about the permanently diminished happiness effect.

            WBPN was and is my meth. I got out with most of my Happy restored eventually, but if no contact is broken, I might not be so lucky next time. At times, I had fantasized about getting a Hot Boyfriend or a high-profile job and “showing him,” but the truth is even if he’s aged badly, way worse than I have, I will always be in danger. The drive to get that chemical rush just once more, exchanging the snotty banter that I thought was the Beginning of something and now see was Instead Of, might overcome me.

            And even if it doesn’t, when I don’t feel that rush with other guys, should I be wasting THEIR time?

            It’s depressing to think that even if I avoid narc relationships, I’m still an addict for life.

          6. Chihuahuamum says:

            Hi Violetta… that makes a lot of sense and it is something i go back and forth on in my mind. Fear of emptiness vs fear of the damage of staying in this type of situation. Thats interesting about the meth and how it can permanently alter the mind. I was surprised abuse could create damage aside from psychological. It is like a drug in that you need more and more to maintain that level of what normal or happiness seems to feel like. Its a dangerous place to be and i can sympathise with anyone who feels this way.

        5. Empath007 says:

          witch, there are other disorders that prevent people from having “normal” sexual desires… those on the autism spectrum for one, as they can not connect with someone in the way neurotypicals can.

          From what I can gather though (and HG May correct me if I’m wrong) it sounds like narcs do enjoy sex, purely for the fact it gives them what they want, fuel and control. So there is a level of enjoyment in the activity for many. It’s just not the same hormonal release of oxytocin that sends pleasure signals all over our bodies which we then equate to love and a deep connection (for some of us).

          Everyone is unique and different. Attraction comes in all forms.

          I think the bottom line is we all need to read Sex…. and stop wondering what all the answers to these questions are lol.

          1. autiempath says:

            @Empath007,

            ‘Those on the autisic spectrum for one, as they can not connect with someone in the way neurotypicals can’

            This made me raise my eyebrows.

            This sounds to me as a bias, as there are lots of others.
            Such as, not connecting to emotions and feelings, i can.
            I am one on the spectrum, and i can, and Iam an empath.

            Autism is a spectrum, and within this, there are people who can connect to other people.

          2. Dr. HQ says:

            People on the autism
            Spectrum can connect.

          3. Empath007 says:

            I didn’t mean to offend. I just meant there are other things then narcissim that lead to people not emotionally connecting.

            I don’t know enough about autism to really make that inference. So I appreciate you chiming in and correcting me.

          4. Alexissmith2016 says:

            Hmmm Everyone seems to have jumped on a point E007 made about autism when actually the main point of discussion here was around narcs and that they are not connected to sex in the same way empaths are.

            It was an innocent comment.

          5. HG Tudor says:

            I think stating “everyone” is something of an exaggeration. I agree it was an innocent comment.

          6. Alexissmith2016 says:

            Okay Hahha yes stating ‘everyone’ was over the top. What I meant was everyone who commented.

            Hmmm rather than typing out my details again. That also applies to anyone who thought it.

          7. Empath007 says:

            All good Alexis ! Thanks for clarifying my point was not meant to offend (cause it wasn’t ).

            But in this case I am happy to Be corrected. I didnt find the replies rude or attacking in nature. Since I admittedly do not know enough about autism beyond having worked with a few children that were higher on the scale. I find learning about all kinds of human behaviours/disorders etc. Interesting. And the more knowledge I can gain from people living the experiences (like HG and autiempath) the better I will be for it 🙂

            Hope you’re doing well AS2016 🙂

    4. Eternity says:

      Empath 007 , I think HG prefers women to control.in bed, and men to control.in other ways which doesnt involve sex. I thinks perhaps its preference. I dont know but HG seems to not be interested in men sexually that’s why he prefers women in the bedroom. I dont him and I cant judge him this is what I think.

      1. Ren says:

        Eternity

        I’ve made myself laugh at your post. Unintentionally!I

        ‘I think Hg prefers women to control in bed’

        Except my mind had managed to insert (him) between ‘control’ and ‘in’.

        I was about to write ‘Look love, I think you might have got that a tad wrong!’

        Them I realised I was the one erring! Ha ha!

  20. DrHouse says:

    filling all the holes to fill your hole.
    Doesn’t work. Tried it.

    1. blackcoffee30 says:

      No, it does not.

      The mindset of the individual is key.

    2. Eternity says:

      HG, when you see an attractive lady. In a bar and you can sniff out that she is an Empath because you studied her . You are waiting to make your move. How does that make you feel looking at her smiling at you . I knows it Fuel but what about your body do you get an sensations?

      1. HG Tudor says:

        Watch out for “Locked on Target” I shall expand on this.

        1. Eternity says:

          Thank you HG I will definitely look out for that .

  21. lickemtomorrow says:

    Looking at it from the narcissist’s point of view, therefore taking the emotional thinking out of it, creates a whole new perspective. The act of intimacy which holds such meaning for the empath holds a different meaning for the narcissist. In that respect jealousy becomes redundant when you know the reason they are doing it. At the same time, the narc just popping out for a top up or a little refuelling is never going to align with the empath’s deep sense of commitment and need for emotional intimacy within the confines of trust. Another no win for the empath. And potentially a deep wound when discovered. Understanding may help to offer a salve to that wound. But, it’s one that will opened time and time again due to the narcissist’s need to harvest fuel. Disappointing, if not devastating, when all is said and done.

    Funny how that word ‘praise’ came up here. A song popped into my head recently which I once shared with my narc as part of a Valentine’s offering. It was “Praise You Like I Should” sung by Hannah Grace. He loved it.

  22. Deborah Redding says:

    I know who you are and no one would ever believe the extent you will go to get that hit.
    It sickens me that I married your kind.

    Have a nice day.

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