Why The Matrinarc Knows Best



“I love you.”

“I have heard this is a good one for getting a reaction from you because this is what you always want to hear.”


“You won’t ever amount to anything.”

“Not while I am interfering in every facet of your life, controlling you and making your childhood and your adult life one long battle.”


I just thought I would call you and see how you are.”

“You do not give me enough fuel. You are an ungrateful son/daughter and I regret the day I gave birth to you.”


“It is my birthday next week and I just wondered if you had anything planned.”

“I expect something lavish and spectacular so I can be centre stage. If you haven’t planned such an event you are cruel and uncaring, just as I always thought.”


“I am proud of you.”

“For once you have done something I approve of and now I can take all the credit for it.”



“You were quite a challenge when you were younger.”

“I thought you might resist my cold-hearted manipulation of you, but I broke you in the end.”


“I suppose you have heard the sad news about your Uncle Paul dying?”

“A death! A funeral! Such a wonderful stage for me to dominate and all those relatives to suck fuel from.”


“I am trying to help you,you know?”

“I am trying to control you, stop resisting me.”


I have done so much for you. All I want is some thanks.”

“I think I have done so much for you. I need some fuel.”


“It was a joke. You take yourself so seriously.”

“It was not a joke. Damn you for seeing through it. I need to back track quickly so I am not accountable.”


“You were an accident.”

“Go on cry and make me feel powerful.”


“Your father and I have discussed this as we think…”

“I have decided….”


“Your father agrees with me so there is no point running to him.”

“Your father knows better than to contradict me.”


“I had such high hopes for you.”

“You aren’t doing what I want.”


“That never happened.”

“It did but you are not allowed to hold that against me.”


“We never thought you would leave home.”

“You were not meant to move out of my control.”


“We hardly ever see you these days.”

“You should be providing me with fuel more often.”


“You weren’t like this when you were little.”

“You were so much easier to control back then.”


“I don’t love you.”

“I don’t love you. I never have.”


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49 thoughts on “Why The Matrinarc Knows Best

  1. Eternity says:

    HG, I have a question if you dont mind . When parents have an arrange marriage for their kids, is there a huge possibility that the one of the parent or both are Narcissist’s.? I see control there thats why I am asking.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Not a huge possibility no. There is a possibility, but more usually, it involves normals with herd mentality.

      1. Eternity says:

        Thank you HG! More of old school parents I guess .

  2. December Infinity says:

    Wow this article reminds me of my mother. That woman made my life hell. There was no pleasing her ever. She has been dead 20 years and there are times I can still hear her voice in the back of my head.

  3. Kim e says:

    I think your mum’s bathroom is beautiful!!!! It would be an honor to sit my arse on the thrown.

    1. Bubbles says:

      Dearest Kim e,
      Your beautiful comment, just made my day ………thank you ☺️
      Luv Bubbles xx 😘

    2. Bubbles 🍾 says:

      Dearest Kim e,
      5 pm I rang my mum today, ” how are you ? ”
      ” I’m in bed and not feeling well, I feel like throwing up”
      I asked “what’s happened”?

      She replied “the cat’s been very needy today and I’m stressed, I gave her lots of cuddles, food and she’s been sitting of my lap”
      She made me feel sick 🤒
      Luv Bubbles xx 😘

      1. Bubbles 🍾 says:

        Sorry, just to clarify, she, the cat, made her feel sick, even though the cat is very healthy and has been acting normally (not my mum making me feel sick )
        Matrinarcs are always seeking attention, so this time she blames the cat 🐱
        Luv Bubbles xx 😘

        1. Kim says:

          Thumbs up to the cat for being the center of negativity this time around. Just taking one for the team❤️😻😻

      2. Kim says:

        Oh brother.
        Can’t win for losing…. you or the cat🤮🤮

  4. Debra says:

    Bobbi & other orphans,

    I know exactly what you have experienced as I have had the same horrible interactions with my narc mother and father. I call myself an orphan as well as I never had parents and in fact I was taught to be their parent and my late sister’s too when I was just a child. They make us co-dependent and we are always doing things for others and ignoring ourselves. It’s not wrong to think of yourself and heal from what was done to you. I’m in therapy myself and so happy that you are too. I’ve learned a lot on this site but it’s also been helpful to get feedback from some one that I trust who also has narcissistic parents. She gets it and it’s great validation to not have to explain everything as she already knows what and how they work.

    We will heal from this and the fact that we survived it all with our empathy, compassion, and love for others still intact shows how strong we all are. I’ve mentioned it before on this site, but my therapist tells me that it takes an incredibly strong person to walk away from narc parents. We keep giving them chance after chance to change and they never do. They just fool us into thinking that they are when they give us temporary reprieve and pretend to care for us. That facade is hard for them to manage so the truth always come back out in the open to us. Hang in there and know that you are an incredibly strong person to have not only survived the horrors we’ve been dealt but to still be a loving, caring person despite that.

  5. Kiki says:

    The thought of an audio only Skype session really sounded fun .I know though against the rules Ren your comments re Tits and arse had me in stitches 😂😂

  6. blackcoffee30 says:

    I’m going to go call my mother right now and tell her I love her and not be so ungrateful.

  7. Eternity says:

    Thank you HG, I appreciate you answering my questions, I know it must have been hard talking about your childhood even to the Good Doctors,but I am so glad you are strong enough to not let her bother you so much anymore . She doesnt even deserve your interaction with her but since its very little it’s not so bad and you can handle her .

    1. lickemtomorrow says:

      I think the emotional thinking of the empath is where we get caught up on this one and why it may be different for HG in this sense. He is operating purely from logic and therefore will not get caught up in the same way in his interactions with his mother. Going no contact isn’t necessary for him in the circumstances.

      1. Bobbi says:

        Which is why he tries to get all of us to think logically, because that is how the narc thinks. To know and understand the narc, you have to learn to think like one.

        1. lickemtomorrow says:

          Absolutely, Bobbi. Take the emotional thinking out of the equation, see the behaviour for what it is and this can also give you the ability to depersonalise it as well. It’s kind of like giving you the ability to detach from the narcissist, which of course is what is necessary as the co-dependency causes us to attach to the narcissist in the most unhealthy of ways.

          It also helps you to build up your defences, lessening the impact.

          I find it a great gift to be able to see things from the narcissist’s perspective. It helps me to know it wasn’t me, it’s not my fault, and it is OK to walk away. In fact, it’s recommended.

          1. Bobbi says:


  8. Leela says:

    “Not while I am interfering in every facet of your life, controlling you and making your childhood and your adult life one long battle.”

    Oh yes! Greetings from Leelas PatriNarc! 😉

    “I have done so much for you. All I want is some thanks.”

    Exactly. And what does that mean? That means “You do everything I want and the way I want it”

    “You were quite a challenge when you were younger.”

    Oh yes, I was! I went my own ways and PartriNarc couldn´t break me!

    But yeah, that´s the way they are, now I know the difference between MatriNarc and PatriNarc: c*ck and balls 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😉

  9. Bobbi Keiffer says:

    Of all the narcs I have dealt with, this one in particular has done the most damage.

    The matrinarc is by far the most insidious, the most damaging, hardest to break away from, and the easiest to suck you back in. At least that is my own personal experience.

    I’m not a religious person, but if there is a hell, then I’m certain that there is a circle below the ninth reserved for matrinarcs, and it’s a place where even the devil himself refuses to go.

    It took 35 years, the loss of my daughter, the near destruction and loss of almost everything I care about, the wholesale demolition of friendships with people who had known me for decades, the absolute decimation of my reputation, and a mental breakdown (complete with suicide attempt) which I STILL haven’t fully overcome to finally cut ties with the manipulative, controlling, piss poor excuse for a fleshy sack of toxic humanoid waste who only brought me into the world because “Oops, *YOUR* sorry excuse for a father got me knocked up” and “I had you to take care of me”.

    Normally, I try to be understanding and mindful of other individual’s “quirks”, neurosis, mental health issues. Normally, I am a very forgiving person. Normally.

    However, I make a very special exception for the woman who brought me into the world for her own selfish ends, and over the course of the month of January 2020 very nearly pushed me to my death for her own amusement. I can’t bring myself to forgive her or to forget what she has done.

    She attempted to Hoover me in back in March. I was completely unfased and unmoved by her calling me and trying to tell me how awful her health was then, particularly when she told me that her lung cancer was back. Plot twist: she has been using the exact same “lung cancer” story to Hoover me back in for years, however, she has never actually been diagnosed or treated for any variety of cancer.

    She is now blocked from what’s left of my life, and I don’t care anymore if she lives or dies, so long as her and her cadre of flying monkeys stay far, far away from me.

    1. lickemtomorrow says:

      OMG, Bobbi, you’ve been to hell and back! Literally. With the woman who calls herself your mother.

      I am very sorry you had to endure all that, and of course you didn’t deserve any of it. You must know that.

      When my mother dies I won’t be grieving her loss, I will be grieving the loss of the mother I never had.

      You’ve made the right decision to cut her out of your life. I hope you will experience healing and peace <3

      1. Bobbi Keiffer says:

        “Life IS pain, Princess”- The Princess Bride.

        Of course it was my fault. I brought her wrath upon myself and those I love by not appeasing the beast. I stopped letting her use me and my family. I had a life that didn’t revolve around her. I quit being her built-in caregiver and “Golden Child”. I quit letting her micromanage my existence to suit her whims. Therefore, the ones I love had to suffer, I had to be punished for my betrayal of my sainted mother, and I might as well have done these awful things myself…

        And THAT is the exact bullshit mind fuck that led to my suicide attempt. I genuinely feel at times that the people I care about would be better off if I were dead, because then I won’t be able to hurt them anymore.

        Being co-dependant is a real mind fuck. I don’t know what to do at times, because nobody will tell me what to do. So, I do nothing. I bend and mold myself in to what the dominate person (s) in my life desire until I finally break from the strain of being what I am not, but never really knowing exactly who I am either. Narcs love me, because I’m full of self-doubt, insecurities, and self-esteem that is dependent on others opinion of me.

        However, it’s taken a lot for me to really understand my own nature, and I’m working towards being more than what my mother trained me to be from day one. I’m finding my sense of self one piece at a time. I’m learning to let go of guilt and blame that was never mine to begin with, and to accept that which is. I’m learning to accept myself a little bit at a time, and am working towards loving who I am in the healthy non-narc way. However, I still find myself backsliding into the mold of the most dominate person in my life at times, and when I do I really hate myself for it.

        I’m in therapy now, but I have a very long way to go. I try to be as rational as I can be when those intrusive thoughts come to mind, and a lot of the time it helps, but depression has a funny way of rendering the logical parts of your brain almost useless. It’s almost like it hijacks my entire thought processes, and all I can do is just curl up on the couch with a box of tissues and be entirely useless until I can get my brain back.

        At this point I consider myself an orphan. My dad bailed years ago before he even physically left because of that bitch, and as far as I am concerned she is already dead to me.

        1. lickemtomorrow says:

          Co-dependency is definitely a fallout from having a narcissistic parent. And it is a ‘mind fuck’. You spend all your time aiming to please them in order to survive and that is the way you are conditioned. To think of their needs and not your own. So you lose yourself in the process. It’s no wonder you’re feeling confused as you try to find yourself again and release the poison out of your system. Your mother is toxic and that toxicity has infected your life.

          It sounds like you’re making some headway and backsliding will always be part of that. Old habits are hard to break, but inch by inch and step by step you will get there. Expressing your anger is part of that. This is a safe space to express those thoughts and that grief. It’s obviously incredibly painful for you right now and I’m glad you’re engaged with a therapist.

          I hope you will continue to engage here as you feel the need. It can be confronting, but also very comforting to know you are not alone in what you are experiencing. Please be safe.

          1. Bobbi says:

            Thank you.

        2. Bubbles 🍾 says:

          Dearest Bobbi Kieffer,
          I wish we could get together on a warm comfy lounge with a glass of bubbles and have a down to earth heart to heart on matrinarcs
          I haven’t even begun to tell the tales of my mother
          I’ve only scratched the surface
          It would rock your socks
          Those close to me can’t believe how I turned out
          Being here with Mr Tudor, finally put all into perspective
          I cannot thank him enough
          I truly feel you
          You are not alone and you are certainly not useless
          I too was an orphan
          The challenge is to rise above them
          I have and you can too
          The first challenge is to love yourself first
          You’re here dearest Bobbi and help is at hand
          Stay strong
          Hearfelt wishes lovely one

          Ps we can definitely tell you what to do …. haha
          Luv Bubbles xx 😘

          1. Bobbi says:

            Thank you, Bubbles and everyone else.

            That would be really awesome! I wonder if HG could arrange a BYOB Skype for veterans and survivors of the endless war that narcs have declared upon us all! We could totally swap war stories. I’m sure each and every one of us have stories we could share.

            If we run out of stories at some point, we can just do bad karaoke or take turns reading our favorite HG blog entries in our worst attempted accents. LoL.

            Seriously though, it really is a thought. Like group therapy, only way more fun.

            Anywho, I’m working towards that magical place called “better”. This was actually me lancing this oh so recent wound, and really talking about it with someone other than my therapist since it all happened.

            I really do appreciate everyone’s support. It always helps to remember that no matter how bad things can be, and how horribly that some people treat each other, that none of us are as alone or isolated as we think we are.

          2. HG Tudor says:

            No, it would breach the rules of this place which are in place for very sound reasons for your protection.

          3. Violetta says:

            Maybe someday there will be a virtual meeting–audio, but no video, to preserve our Secret Identities.

            If there ever is such an event, I’m bringing mead.

          4. Ren says:


            I think you might be new in these parts.

            One of the most fundemental rules of NS is that we do not meet up.

            There are very good precedents why this is in place.

            We share our stories here.

            But if we where to Skype, I could beat you lot into a cocked hat with my Recieved Pronunciation.

            I’d be like Hg but with tits. And a magnificent arse. And obviously, far better looking. Plus brains.

            Perhaps I am actually Hg?

          5. HG Tudor says:

            No, but add an i and h and you will be far closer based on what you have written.

          6. Ren says:

            To clarify, I made one of my ‘jokes’.

            Hg is not me and nor am I Hg. Now unless I’ve been blithering on the phone in consult to myself; I’m pretty sure that there was a well-spoken man involved.

            But the point remains. I cannot prove it. And this is the sole reason why we must remain safely (or semi-safely) anomous.

            I know it’s hard. I’d like nothing more to have a few jars with Violetta down the Nags Head. Not going to happen.

            I really do think this is an important point to make. Us regulars know what we read on here. More and more will join us.

            I urge everyone to keep safe and not be distracted by off site shennagains.

            No good will come of it. Mark my words.

          7. Super Co-dependant Side-kick Girl says:

            No, I just like challenging the rules sometimes…

            And sometimes I just like to have a room full of people screaming “No!” at me. 😂

            Wait, we were supposed to have secret identities? Are we super heroes now? If so, I want to be the side kick. LoL.

            HG with tits? I agree with HG, you must be HiGh, but it still makes for a mental image that will give me nightmares for weeks to come.

          8. NarcAngel says:

            Snacking from the meds tray again Renarde?

          9. Bobbi says:

            NA, why yes, snack time is my favorite time of the day! All three times. 😁

            The real fun, however is when they let me wear the jacket that ties in the back so I can bounce off the walls in the little room with padded walls. It’s great cardio! 😂

          10. Bubbles 🍾 says:

            Dear Bobbi,
            This is my narc mum for you
            All week I’ve been busy organising a renovation to my mum’s bathroom, hand rails, taps n what not
            She had a leakage, so all the pre existing ‘painted over’ tiles and frieze had to come off and couldn’t be saved, plus I couldn’t get similar replacements anywhere
            I selected a tile mum saw and approved of and they’ve been laid how she wanted them
            Anyhoo, the tiles are up and I asked the plumber to send me pic
            It’s looks stunning

            I asked mum her thoughts ….. her response

            ‘I hate it’ 😡

            Luv Bubbles xx 😘

        3. truthseeker6157 says:

          Hello Bobbi,

          “Depression has a funny way of rendering the logical parts of your brain almost useless.”

          This line set bells ringing for me I don’t know if it did for anyone else.
          If you were to put a description on Emotional Thinking, it would be almost identical.

          My question would be can an individual or in fact a doctor tell the difference between someone presenting with sky high ET or depression?

          My personal experience is no, they can’t.

          My narc disappeared for 8 months at one point. During this time I took a fairly quick slide down and was unable to pull up out of the downward spiral. I functioned, didn’t take a day off work, didn’t make a misstep in terms of my various obligations, but I basically was autopiloting my way through it all. When I had any free mental space at all I slipped into my own world replaying conversations, what ifs and whys. I was cloudy and achingly sad every day. I went to the doctor who tested me for depression and concluded I was moderately / severely depressed. I was prescribed medication. I collected my prescription and it stayed unopened in the bathroom drawer. Something kept telling me that this was not depression. That actually my reaction was ‘logical’ given the confusion and unanswered questions I had for my narcissist. ( note, I did not know he was a narcissist at this point)

          He returned, as if nothing had happened. The fog lifted instantly. I was fixed overnight. That isn’t depression. That is severe ET. The doctor couldn’t distinguish it from depression. Why would she?

          I’m no doctor. I do know taking medication for depression can make symptoms worse. It can also cause in an increase in suicidal thoughts. What would have happened had I taken the meds?

          Bobbi, my suggestion would be to understand as much as you can about Emotional Thinking. I’m no expert but I know a man who is. I would be very tempted to discuss this with HG in more detail to establish how much of what you have been feeling could be attributed to ET, and in fact, in worst case scenarios, how he feels ET could manifest.

          Just a thought. That line in your comment rang alarm bells for me.

          1. Kim e says:

            Very thoughtful of you to share your experience with Bobbi. Every little bit we reveal about ourselves has the potential to switch on the light for someone else.

          2. truthseeker6157 says:

            Thank you Kim,

            That comment just made me think. I’m not a doctor, certainly no expert on depression at all. I just thought it was worth exploring a little further. I had never heard of ET before arriving here. I still don’t always recognise it at work now. I do sometimes though. Sometimes is better than no times. I’m currently aiming for ‘usually’ ha ha.

          3. lickemtomorrow says:

            Hi TS, I agree with Kim e that sharing more of your story here can make a big difference to others. Especially when we all seem to have similar stories to tell. I could see myself on that rollercoaster ride you just described and the emotions that went (and sometimes still do go) with it. It’s exactly as you describe it. And it’s exactly as HG describes it, too. And I think what the narcissist has created in each one of us is a sense of cognitive dissonance. That is the fog and confusion which can so easily descend and be lifted again. It is all within the narcissist’s control.

            I think there are number of different means which all come together here in terms of tackling both the narcissist and the effects of the narcissist, and for some people medication might be part of that. It may be necessary to help get them back on an even keel, lift them out of a depression the narcissist has left them in and improve their mood long enough to make the decision to GOSO.

            There are possible downsides to such ‘chemical assistance’ and there is a need to take the side effect warnings seriously, but I believe they can make a difference.

            The biggest difference will always be made when we know what we are dealing with and find a way to combat that. Which is what HG gives us here. The understanding and help we need to get off the everlasting merry-go-round which leaves us feeling dizzy and dissonant.

            A consult with HG is always a good recommendation to get that emotional thinking under control. I agree.

          4. truthseeker6157 says:

            Hey Lickemtomorrow,

            Yes, reader comments and support have made all the difference to me. Honestly, I have done some outstandingly stupid stuff in pursuit of the narcissist. I don’t think there’s anything I wouldn’t share with everyone here though. Particularly if I thought it might help someone else.

            I was utterly confused when I arrived here. Reading the articles enabled me to start piecing things together. Reading the comments enabled me to deal with it.

          5. Violetta says:

            Anti-depressants helped me a LOT. I thought it was just situational, but there really was something chemical going on. It was when I got to the question about times I was happy in the last year and I suddenly realized there were exactly two: dancing at a Renaissance reenactment and dancing at a Civil War reenactment.

            I had continued doing other things I normally enjoyed: ice skating, bike riding, shipping. Nothing was helping.

    2. Fiddleress says:

      Hello Bobbi Keiffer
      Good on you for cutting your genitor out of your life. It is a very tough decision to make, but an absolutely indispensable one, and one you must stick to.

      I had a MatriNarc too. Been no contact for 11 years now. She still tries to hoover me by proxy (she doesn’t have my address/phone number, doesn’t know where I work) but there is NO way in hell I will ever let her say a single word to me again, or set eyes on me. Not even if she developed the most horrible and painful illness imaginable. I would rather go bankrupt paying for a place to put her in if she can’t take care of herself in very old age, than see her again.

      What happened to you is very recent. I am glad you have found HG, and this blog. You will get all the support you need, here.

      1. Bobbi Keiffer says:

        Unfortunately, she made it too easy for me to excise the tumor she had become on my life. My biggest regret is that I didn’t do it before she went on her rampage.

        She is 1,000% on her own as far as I’m concerned. Her flying monkeys can pay to put her ass in a home when they can’t tolerate her anymore. As for me, I’m an orphan. LoL.

        I actually found HG about 3 years ago when I was trying desperately to understand why my SO acted the way he did (does), and whether I was the actual the “problem” in our marriage like he had started convincing me I was.

        Long story short, as I am currently working on understanding what I really am responsible for, and what blame, shame, and guilt I need to let go of, I have returned to the mine to dig for gold, answers, and perspective.

        I’m hoping at some point to purge all the narcs from my life. It may mean me ending up entirely alone, living and dying alone in a cave as a hermit, but I’m reaching a point where that actually sounds pretty good.

        1. Empath007 says:

          Bobbi ! Fellow Co Depedant here 🙋🏼‍♀️ So much of what you say resonates with me ! I never understood that I was constantly seeking validation from others, and constantly adjusting and bending to meet their needs. That often people
          Did not take me seriously or
          Respect me, and that a lot of
          People in my life were very narcissistic. Not all narcs… but narcissistic.

          One place we differ though is our mothers… mine is a Co Depedant as well. So I never felt abandoned or un loved. I can’t imagine the pain of experiencing that with a parent 😞 it takes a lot of strength to take a parent out of your life completely. I think that just goes to show how strong you are.

          Keep fighting the good fight ! You are valuable, loveable and worthy of putting yourself first. Your life has meaning and purpose. You’re enough. Even if that means everyone turns their back on you. You alone are enough !

          1. truthseeker6157 says:

            Empath 007,
            Hello you, I’m so glad you are still here x

    3. blackcoffee30 says:

      OMG Bobbi, I’m so glad to hear you’ve escaped. Stay strong and sending love, XOXO.

  10. lickemtomorrow says:

    “Do you feel like you’ve come home with your tail between your legs?”

    You are weak, pathetic and I have nothing but contempt for you.

    “I was going to have you aborted”

    I’m blaming it on your father, but I really didn’t want another burden holding me back from my destiny.

    “You used to be such a good child”

    You were compliant with my wishes and this suited my need for control.

    The list goes on.

    I don’t remember my mother ever telling me she loved me. Or holding me. In fact, I always recoiled from her touch. And it was reptilian. She would always try to touch me with freezing cold hands thinking it was funny.

  11. Eternity says:

    HG. Have you ever tried to GOSO from MatriNarc?
    I know you are therapy and maybe she reccomend it, but didn’t she do enough damage to you since you were a little boy ? Sorry to ask you these questions but its very disturbing since she was so mean to you as a child and you didnt deserve this treatment.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Hello Eternity, no. I have very little to do with her now and she does not impact on me. Indeed, I utilise any interactions to my advantage. She cannot cause any damage to me now. You have no need to apologise for asking questions.

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