Seconds Out, Round One
I know a number of you ask about my interactions with the good doctors, Dr E and Dr O so I thought I would take you back. Way back. My first involvement with these people of medicine was not with Dr E or Dr O but a fellow who I shall refer to as Dr M. I thought I would take you back to my first meeting with Dr M. It was a cold winter’s day when I entered the elegant building where Dr M had his consulting rooms. They are in the same building as where I would later learn that Dr E and Dr O practise. I was shown into a drawing room which had an open fire but it was not lit. The room was warm nevertheless. Dr M was already sat in front of his expansive desk. He rose to greet me but I walked straight past him and sat in a chair. He tried not to look taken aback but I knew that he was. He sat down and adjusted his position as he placed his fingertips together creating a triangle and rested his hands on his chest. He was clearly trying to conjure up an image of intelligence. I was not impressed.
“Good morning Mr Tudor, I am Dr M. I will be working with you. Thank you for addressing the administrative details with my secretary, I appreciate it is a bit of a bind but the paperwork needs to be in place. I thought that today we could just have a general discussion rather than launch into specifics. A fireside chat if you will. I usually take notes but I am not going to do so today. So let me ask how are you?”
I said nothing. I looked at the doctor’s shoes. I noticed he was wearing Chelsea boots which interested me but not enough to comment on it. The doctor waited and I could hear a clock ticking in the room. It was somewhere behind me. There was no other sound. The walls in this old building were thick, not like the tissue and spit of modern constructions. The door was solid as well. No noise would be heard from beyond and I reasoned nobody would hear what was said in here either.
“I asked how are you?” the doctor repeated after a moment of waiting. I shifted my gaze to look at him but I still said nothing. He seemed unfazed by my silence.
“Very well. Let’s begin by discussing why you are with me today.”
I waited but there was no question. I remained silent. I looked over at Dr M’s desk. It was an antique partner’s made from mahogany and was inset with maroon leather. It was one of those large desks which had draws on both sides so that a partner, in whatever business it might be, would sit on one side and an underling, some kind of clerk, would sit directly opposite him sharing the desk. There was a large leather chair on the other side of the desk. The top of the desk bore a couple of books although I could not read the titles from where I was sat and a neat pile of papers. I could see a pen lying on its side also.
“I appreciate you do not want to be here but you are now. In order for us to help one another we do need to have a conversation,” said Dr M.
I flicked my gaze back at him and focussed on his suit. It was navy, heavy looking most likely wool. There was a pinstripe in the material. I wondered if he purchased two pairs of trousers with the suit. He looked like a man who spent a lot of time on his backside and this would mean the woollen crotch of his trousers would soon wear away. A second pair was a must. I glanced at Dr M’s crotch to try and ascertain if I could see a hole forming. A small opening in the trousers through which his doubtless white underwear could be viewed. So far the wool was holding out.
“Very well. Why don’t you tell me something about yourself?” he invited.
I was nonplussed earlier but now I was becoming bored. I let my eyes wander over to the fireplace. It was substantial and I thought it was a pity that there was no fire lit. I could see logs stacked up inside the fireplace but the flames were absent. No doubt it would contravene patient safety having a fire in here. I baulked at using the word patient. That was what he regarded me as. I was no patient. I was not some drooling imbecile wheeled in by white uniformed staff and followed by anxious relatives. I was no drink-addled half-wit whose brain had turned to mush through years of alcohol abuse so he would routinely soil himself. Those were the type of degenerates, admittedly well-looked after degenerates that normally came to these places.
“Whenever you are ready Mr Tudor,” he gave me a short smile which I assume was meant to reassure me. I looked at him again and fixed him with a stare. Interestingly he met my gaze. His expression was not challenging nor was it threatening. He just looked at me as I looked at him. He glanced towards his desk and then moved slightly in his seat. Yes he was prone to fidgeting, that crotch would soon be worn away on that suit. His shirt was white which amused me. Only police officers and airline pilots wear white shirts. Even though I could see it was expensive it should not have been white. I did notice that it was double-cuffed so that was something at least. Single cuff would have generated scorn and heaven forbid he wore a short-sleeve shirt under a suit jacket I would have walked straight out.
“We have plenty of time, so just when you are comfortable.”
Indeed we did have plenty of time. Two hours’ worth thanks to the power of my parents’ cheque book. So the pair of us sat in that grand drawing room with the absent fire and let two hours pass in complete silence. Dr M said nothing more as he waited for me to speak and I said nothing more as I had nothing to say to him. I concentrated on using my silence to make him feel uncomfortable. I could tell by the way he kept shifting in his seat he wanted to speak or listen. He made to speak on several occasions but something prevented him from doing so. I occupied my thoughts with planning the rest of my day and also how I might entice his frosty looking but obviously hugely efficient secretary into my world. I ran through a variety of scenarios which made the time pass rather quickly. I was almost taken by surprised when Dr M cleared his throat and spoke.
“Well our time is at end this week Mr Tudor. I shall see you again next week same day and the same time. Good day,” he said pleasantly as he rose from his seat.
I said nothing. I walked past him and headed to the door as the surge began inside me.
Round one to HG.
22 thoughts on “Seconds Out, Round One”
Vent Your Spleen! (Please see the Rules in Formal Info)
This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.
Interesting how so much detail is provided about the surroundings in the midst of silence.
You’re too generous HG. You share your brilliance with the doctors and us. You’re an altruistic God.
Thank you Whitney.
Yikes. Two hours with my MD psychiatrist would be $1350.00 USD.
I should charge more!
You should HG, you’re worth every penny, however I am so very grateful that you don’t!
Indeed but I have no immediate plans to do so.
Fabulous news! Thank you
Horseyak:
Oh, now you had to go and put ideas in his head!
OMG. Horseyak, where does this doctor practice? That’s too expensive. I’m actually concerned.
Reading this article again today is has a sense of ‘dissociation’ about it. You are dissociated from the experience. Taking in the appearances of Dr.M. and the features of his room. Not willing to engage. Refusing to engage.
Round 1 to HG indeed.
LET, I think you mean well-defended. If disassociation serves the defense, it will be applied. Bearing in mind the defense is a survival mechanism, created under often extreme circumstances, it’s easy to see why once would deny, deflect, disassociate, and split from any further criticism or shaming which would be akin to loss of control. A narcissist could as easily also apply memory recall or false memory recall, false contrition, blame shifting or play the victim. What matters most is maintaining the defense. I think this is one point that many psychologists miss. Disassociation and splitting do not equal the narcissistic condition, they are but tools used for coping (maintaining control) or gaining fuel. If any of HG’s doctors fully grasped this they would know their methods are not going to change his defense. This is why it is easy to see that therapy has been demanded as a means of asserting control over HG (and possibly as a means of some money laundering). I’m confident that once free of his certain constraints, the therapy will come to an abrupt end and HG will have won every round.
Hi FYC, yes I didn’t mean dissociative in any other context except that of being a defense. But it is an interesting defense. And one that can be applied in particularly stressful situations. While it doesn’t sound stressful to HG, it is definitely a threat to his control and on the basis of that this defense is applied. It’s not something I thought about when I read the article previously. This time it stood out much more clearly. The need to remove oneself from a situation, mentally, as a means of applying control where a lack of control is perceived or threatened. And no doubt HG had to do something to keep his mind occupied during that two hour time period!
Always glad to hear your thoughts, FYC, and I’ve no doubt HGs therapy will come to an immediate end once it has served his purpose. He has stated elsewhere that he does believe the doctors are trying to help him, but that of course doesn’t mean he wants to or can be helped. He is there under duress after all. While his defense remains supreme the manipulations he chooses to apply will ensure a change never happens, and according to HG this is not possible anyway.
Dr.M. got HGs initial response to the notion of going to therapy. Since then he appears to have opened up a little more due to curiosity and in order to learn more about himself. And of course to refine his machinations and manipulations. What better way to hone your skills than to set them against the very people who would attempt to destroy your defences? It may well be that HG has been able to arm himself even more completely in the circumstances. And this, in some ways, is unfortunate and an adverse effect of therapy in this instance.
I doubt HGs family realize that putting him into therapy may have exacerbated the issue they were trying to resolve. In that sense, HG will have won every round.
Hi LET, likewise, I think you have an interesting perspective. In this post, I found HG’s response with Dr. M more one of contempt and defiance (to assert control), versus disassociation, however, I felt your comment was speaking to his ongoing therapy, hence my response.
Regarding your comment:
“I doubt HGs family realize that putting him into therapy may have exacerbated the issue they were trying to resolve.”
Although some family members may have been motivated by issue resolution (such as siblings’ prior difficulties experienced), but I doubt this applies to those who are imposing the therapy (Matrinarc and Dr. E are both narcissists themselves and therefore the only thing they are trying to resolve is how to control HG and preserve their own facade. It also feels more like an attempt to blame and punish HG for certain events–never mind their own lack of accountability).
There are several well-established cases of psychopaths becoming more effective due to their involvement in therapy as they learn more of the psychology of human behavior. So it seems curious to me that a licensed doctor of either psychiatry or psychology would not know this? Perhaps it is Dr. E’s own grandiosity that lead him to believe he can manage HG? I don’t know. I have a hard time understanding their motives beyond that of control and cover-up, but I may be jaded due to what we have learned in “Knowing HG” thus far.
Hello FYC,
“I have a hard time understanding their motives beyond that of control and cover-up”
$ ?
“Perhaps it is Dr. E’s own grandiosity that lead him to believe he can manage HG?”
I think that is a good guess – but also, we likely can assume that HG would give Dr. E. the illusion, in small ways, that he can ‘manage’ HG, without actually giving up his power.
P.S. I have posted the same comment, concurrently, in the KHG forum in the event the discussion goes more in depth.
Let’s not forget money as a motivator for those like Dr. E and in his field. Especially when the “client” is actually other than the person attending the ongoing sessions and has indicated an open pocketbook. Although we don’t know if he has any need for money at present haha. The Knowing HG series and forum certainly does uncover a lot more (shocking) detail about HG’s life and those around him.
Hello WC and NA,
Thank you for the copy to the forum, I will be able to add more there. As for money, I wonder if fees provide a laundering opportunity for financial gain from other nefarious operations? Given the transactional nature of narcissists, I feel fairly certain there is some quid pro quo involved. Remember the triangular connection between Peter, Matrinarc and Dr. E. I would gather all play a part in this as does their certain association. I’ll add more in the forum. As for HG, he is incredibly intelligent and perceptive; I believe he is providing just enough rope for them to hang themselves. He is the Ultra even, and perhaps, especially, in therapy.
Hi FYC, there is definitely contempt and defiance at the core of HGs actions. But when it comes to his defences, control is the prime aim. In order to assert that control he removes himself (in a sense) from the purposes of the meeting and finds other things to focus on and ways to distract himself in order to maintain control. HGs tone is contemptuous and his actions defiant, but what he really wants to do is assert control in that moment, to ensure he maintains the upper hand. It is his only defence (To Control is to Cope).
I get your point about the motivations of others and whether they really desire any kind of resolution to the situation that is HG. HG describes being caught in a ‘pincer’ movement which is how he is trapped in this doctor’s office in the first place. Huge lack of control in being placed in this position. Massive need to defend himself. Considering other narcs are involved, particularly Matrinarc, there is no question that they have their own reasons for straitjacketing HG in this manner. And I’m sure that has a lot to do with the facade. So I’m guessing you’re right on the money there, FYC. HG is being made a scapegoat for the sins of others.
It is hard to know the doctors motives, but I did pick up where HG said he believed they were trying to help him. If Dr. E. is a narc then definitely his sense of grandiosity could play into that. And control would also play a huge part. The question mark has been raised about Dr. E. in a recent post and I really must get back to the KHG series to follow up.
A great comment 🙂
Thanks, AspEmp 🙂 FYCs comment caused me to think a little harder and dig a little deeper. Only HG knows if my comment is correct. I appreciate your feedback x
I think you have done a good job of describing how you see it – “straitjacketing HG in this manner” is a good example. You know, I thought “how dare they?!” because, how many other narcissists are doing what HG is doing for us? It’s interesting in how I comment on narcissists in general in various posts and seem understanding / accepting but cannot accept the exes or muvver – this is where I seem to “contradict” myself…..
It is still a great comment LET x
AspEmp, thank you again, and I feel very similar to you in lots of ways.
I hate on the narcissists in my life who have affected me personally, but I also feel very defensive at times of HG. It creates an odd moment of dissonance as that plays out here. The difference between the two, of course, is that HG is trying to help me. He is giving me the means and method to escape. So I owe him a degree of loyalty. And in that sense I will come to his defense. That’s probably where the difference lies. I don’t owe these other narcs anything. It is different with HG.
In my mind the contradiction can be explained xox