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176 thoughts on “Meghan Markle : A Less Than Royal Narcissist : Part 33.4 : Engagement Analysis”
Obv mid rangers aren’t aware but do many at least recognize they are different somehow than most , and attribute it to being more evolved or other superiority related reasoning?
HG, I hope your silence at the moment means not that you are working on another item in the “Royal Narcissist” series, as informative and even entertaining as they are, but that someone has finally consulted you on behalf of the BRF.
Of course, you’d have to keep such a thing confidential.
And of course, we’re not supposed to hope.
Yeah they are Defin reading, HG has been alerted and he’s trying to discreetly advise is my guess
Also well done taking her name out of it and giving her the wife title
Take that, Bitch.
Harry is so screwed. If he shows up for the funeral, he gets booed; if he doesn’t, it’s showing even more lack of respect for his grandfather, whose death will be blamed on all the stress the Sussexes caused. (Yes, he was pushing 100, but the stress won’t have helped.) Of course, she will promptly have obstetrical trouble to keep him at her side. Perhaps hyperemesis gravidarum, Catherine’s recurring ailment, because Acquisition of Traits. Or she’ll try to trump it with something more worrisome.
I suspect either way he will dig in his heels about his marriage being the right thing to do, unwilling to admit he’s throwing good money (or time and effort) after bad. He’s too invested, and Grandpa did say one goes around with actresses; one doesn’t marry them.
He’s getting filleted on DM. Only those of us who’ve been ensnared, especially those of us who now know the stages in the process because we’ve followed the analysis here not only of the Sussexes but of Narcissistic Ensnarement in general, understand how he could remain so apparently clueless for so long.
Violetta, yes, I was also thinking back to this series when I learned the news about Prince Phillip’s passing (sad for the Queen and no doubt she’ll not find it easy). As for Harry, well, knowing Megsie, she won’t let him leave USA for the funeral (she’ll pity play the pregnancy game). Yet it would be an opportunity for Harry should he be able to leave Meghan in USA and visit his family & pay his respects to his grandfather – Harry needs a ‘break’ from Meghan in any case….. so it should be interesting to see what transpires next.
“how he could remain so apparently clueless for so long.”
Now imagine how many in our lives had that same thought while we were entangled and were ignoring the red flags and making excuses for our narcissist. Often those closest to us will offer observations or make comments early on to twig us that something is not right (they will likely not identify a narcissist, but will observe behaviours of some concern). While in the thick of our entanglement/addiction we reject this. Then as time goes on and the target begins to see some issues and look to discuss them, they are met with seeming indifference or dismissiveness from those family members/friends and become angry at them and wonder why.
I raise this not to blame the target, but rather to say that perhaps we should re-evaluate why we fell out with some of the people in our lives. Perhaps their initial concern (not all of course) when met with our resistance had them default to seeming indifference and or absence. It can be very hard to watch as we can so easily see with Harry.
Harry is going through ensnarement in the full glare of publicity. It’s bad enough just one on one, he has the whole world watching him. If it fails, he is going to need a big hand from his family, who he just unceremoniously through under a proverbial bus by taking part in that interview. Hopefully, he got some perspective back from being with his family in the UK for his grandfather’s funeral. If they never trust Harry again, you really cannot blame them.
I thought the same thing. Harry is in a no win situation overall. The best thing he can do I think is to go to the funeral without Markle. Most of the anger is targeted towards her and if it was me, I wouldn’t forgive myself for not going to the funeral. I would face the music come what may.
I agree too, Markle will pull some stunt or other to keep him with her. Unless of course she sees some benefit to sending him into the fray. To test opinion perhaps? To ensure that their titles are kept. We might see Charles take the throne very shortly now. Charles holds the power and Markle might think a PR exercise is in order.
I am not a huge fan of the royal family. I think they have a valid role to play as far as British tourism is concerned etc so I am not in the camp that wants them abolished but not a big fan either. I was surprised by my reaction today. I read through the various articles about the partnership of the Queen and Prince Philip and thought how desolate that great lady must feel this evening. Narcissist he might have been but he is the person beside her in every photograph. Her every memory must have him in it. So many years. I felt truly sad for her. I felt truly sad for the situation she now finds herself in. The institution she signed her life over to under attack. Her own time limited and the loss of her lifelong partner apparent in every room and corridor. Very sad.
My heart is breaking for the Queen right now. I hope she is protected from anything Meghan tries.
AV I’m right there with you. I have suspicions that I am actually too nervous to voice in case they actually occur… The thing that I keep telling myself is that Her Majesty has weathered many storms with grace and justice, and that she has definitely proven to take the time to behave with Logic rather than ET in all these situations. I hope and believe that those close to her will close ranks around her to protect her from whatever happens next.
Same and agreed. 🙂
The Queen is pretty tough (WWII, her children’s divorces, the Annus Horribilis), but this is a lot of stress for someone her age all at the same time.
Violetta, I agree. That’s why it’s so awful from her perspective. That’s why she needs protection from her family. They are her legacy after all. I think she tried to pour whatever goodness she had into her family while protecting them as much as she could from their own shenanigans. The Empaths in the family and the Normals too I suspect. I think PP was a full blown narcissist, and high up enough on the N Scale to use it to his advantage and those who fell under his protection… Including HM. Together, they could rule a kingdom. She must be feeling so unprotected, and those that care for her, including PH will know this and respond instinctively. I hope.
Philip was a useful narc. He did genuine service in the War, and for those who accuse him of being some sort of Nazi sympathizer, I’d like to point out that as a youth, Philip had to be removed from the German school Kurt Hahn founded before Gordonstoun, because when the Nazis took over, he would laugh out loud every time he saw their salute. Hahn, by the way, had to flee the Nazis because of his Jewish ancestry, & Philip not only followed him to the new school, but of course later sent his own kids there. This may not have been the best decision for Charles, who went full narc at least in part because of Gordonstoun, but Andy (probably already narcy) and Anne (not sure how HG rates her, but I think she’s pretty cool) did well enough there.
In any case, Philip was hardly a Nazi sympathizer.
You sound like you are in a similar camp to me. HG has stated Prince Philip was a narcissist but in this case and I suppose in a similar way to HG himself, Prince Philip did many good things that benefitted many people other than himself. He did support the Queen. Perhaps in light of her position his narcissism ascertained this would serve him best. At some point in the future it would be interesting to have HG explain how this relationship would have operated.
For now though, for my part I just feel heart sorry for the Queen. I can’t comprehend how it must feel to lose someone who has been a part of your life for so many years.
His childhood (escaping a revolution, than leaving Germany as Nazism grew) are enough of a Low-Control Environment to trigger genetic predisposition to Narcissism. Salem and later Gordonstoun (both run by Hahn) sound very rigid, but perhaps he welcomed the structure after the previous chaos.
Playing a secondary role to HM might have been expected to rub him the wrong way, but since she apparently deferred to him privately and seems to have relished his traditional manly qualities, he would have less trouble accepting the situation. Certainly, it provided him with the stability and security he didn’t have growing up. He seems to have been both intelligent and educated, so he could see it was in his interest to make it all work.
I suspect Philip was a sufficiently high-functioning narc to motivate him to do things that really were to his own advantage, thus collaterally to others’ advantage. What must have exasperated him was the way Meghan constantly shoots herself in the foot, or a less well-lit place.
I think the concept of the various levels of narcs may be one of the most important things I’ve learned on Narcsite. I’ve spent years wondering why some people do things that are bound to come back to bite them, even wondered if they think we are all so stupid we won’t see what they’re up to. Were they insulting our intelligence, thinking we’d fall for that crap?
No, the lower levels really don’t see through it themselves. They’re like people who can’t carry a tune but wonder why everyone winces whenever they start to sing. I’ve occasionally sung off-key or cracked when I wasn’t breathing properly or I hadn’t worked out when to switch from chest voice to head voice (which is why there are rehearsals), but I can hear it. I can consult a voice coach or the music director on how to fix the problem: switch to head voice a few notes before I actually have to, breathe on this bar rather than that one.
The Philips of the world may decide that they shouldn’t have to censor themselves, and to hell with anyone who doesn’t like it, but the Meghans of the world can’t hear it at all.
Your thoughts on the possible functioning of the relationship make a lot of sense. A narcissist is a narcissist in core aspects but otherwise they are as diverse a group as we are. I agree, the classifications and accuracy that HG uses do allow us to get extremely close to the specific behaviours of the various schools and cadres. Conversely, ‘covert narcissist’. I would have no idea about the motivation of the person I was dealing with.
They seemed to be able to laugh together. That strikes a chord. My parents are like that. The ageing process must be strange. To laugh at and with each other is the king pin I think. Then I remember ‘The Narcissist and Humour’ and those pictures of Prince Philip and the Queen chortling away are spoiled. As you say, perhaps he is higher functioning. Perhaps the fuel provided from her obvious attention and response to him was enough.
I wouldn’t mind but I’m not even a big Royal Family fan! Maybe HG correctly identified my love devotee trait after all. Meh.
Gordonstoun didn’t take girls when Anne was in school, but she did send her own children there.
Can anyone (HG or IPPS) answer this for me? – I know Harry is going along with Meghan’s narrative. I understand how the ET makes this so. What I’m having a hard time with is things that are more concrete, not open for interpretation…such as Archie’s title. Harry knows that purely from an objective perspective, Archie will not receive a prince title. So how is it that he can sit there hearing his wife claim racism on the issue when he absolutely KNOWS this is not the case?
I have never been IPPS so I can’t claim to know how it feels in that position, but I’m curious if anyone can offer insight, it would help me understand a lot.
1. He is not that bright so he may be labouring under the misapprehension that his son has been “wronged”.
2. He knows better that to incur Meghan´s displeasure so is keeping quiet.
3. He has bought into Meghan´s narrative and even if he knows it is incorrect, he is going along with it for different reasons espoused by Meghan.
Thank you HG, I think this another example of the ET overriding an empathic trait (honesty) in order to contribute to the addiction.
I appreciate your explanation
I also wondered about Supernova DE’s exact same point.
“3….he is going along with it for different reasons espoused by Meghan.”
Just a thought; some empaths are so conditioned that they can barely utter a negative word about anyone. In the context of being in the middle of an interview with Oprah, I hardly think he would stop, object and correct his wife if she exhibited an incorrect understanding of policy (despite it being done for the purposes of control). It wouldn’t reflect well on Meghan or Harry himself.
“…some empaths are so conditioned that they can barely utter a negative word about anyone…”
I think when we understand gaslighting, we can see how this can occur. See Harry’s face when she was talking about the titles and the private wedding? He looks down and puzzlement flashes on his face. He is so used to Meghan being “right about everything”, that he is actually pausing to think about it. Even though it’s his family, his monarchy, his culture, he actually cannot see the blatant truth. The ensnarement is actually working here as he unconsciously seeks to reconcile the lies she is telling with actual reality. He can’t immediately do this so he looks perplexed. The lie is causing him to doubt his own reality/perception/opinion/cold hard fact. Then he probably unconsciously pushes it down with a “we’ll come back to that thought later” attitude and then just goes back to smiling and nodding empathetically.
Even if he knows in the moment that her behaviour is out of line, he will not contradict her on international television. That would have a very ugly outcome given that he is under a narcissist’s control and has to cohabit with her. There comes a time during an argument with the narcissist when the gaslighting, contradiction, and emotional abuse are so intense that you have to get it to stop if you’re ever going to be able to figure out how to avoid it next time. If you respond in the moment, it will likely be using ET, so you shut up rather than making the situation worse.
Thank-you for that, very observant of you and very clearly articulated.
So very true how the gaslighting causes you to doubt your reality and then the wish to avoid conflict (and no energy to engage conflict due to the abuse) results in the acceptance of that new reality. It’s like: “why fight it? because it’s not even worth it.”
I have an example of my own. Before my ensnarement I had a cat (a stray kitten that a neighbour couldn’t care for because of already having five cats). After getting involved with my ex, he “fell in love with” a little female rescue cat that he saw through an adoption program. We both had busy lives and I thought it would be good for my cat to have a feline companion. So we adopted her.
During my devaluation, one of the ridiculous things my ex would say was that my older male cat had shown the little girl cat how to rub her cheeks on things. (You know, how cats transfer their scent to you and corners, furniture, etc.) He would stand there, point, and say:
“He showed her how to do THAT” in such a way as if it were a personal affront to him.
Keep in mind, my ex was of a different ethnicity and did not grow up in Canada – so, at the time, I really believed that he simply had a gap in his understanding of feline behaviour, and me, being the truthseeker that I am would educate him in the moment (there had been other such little “misunderstandings” on his part and I would explain to him; he grew up on a farm, where the animals stayed outside and weren’t pampered as they are in Canada, so I really thought he just didn’t know these things). But he would continue to assert these things, after having been set straight and, eventually, while I didn’t fully accept what he was saying, I would find myself overthinking it and saying to myself, in a puzzled way, ‘well, there is a kernel of truth there, animals do learn from observing other animals…’ But, of course, I knew it was just instinctual and my male cat didn’t directly teach the female cat this behaviour. And I never fully accepted my ex’s reality (looking back I see that this was just a way to provoke a response in me) and all it amounted to in me was an irritated look and a response of “Go Google it and educate yourself”. I was done explaining it to him. I remember thinking was he really that dense that he wasn’t getting it? But the intent on his part wasn’t the seeking of knowledge, it was just to provoke a response in me – which it did. Unlike Harry, I didn’t always swallow my narcissist’s reality whole.
I did, however, eventually accept his reality that everything was my fault – I fully blamed myself for all our decisions – but I had been set up previously, before my ex, to be the recipient of blame.
Sorry this is so long (and likely tedious to read) but the effects of gaslighting is why I feel somewhat protective of Harry. Regardless of intelligence level, gaslighting makes one “stupid” – or feel stupid…or even do not very bright things. I knew what the little girl cat was doing was just natural cat behaviour – why would I ever consider otherwise? *Shaking my head* Narcissistic abuse affects cognition and can make one feel dumb as post.
WhoCares, good comment, interesting. I had the opposite, I believed all his excuses but put the blame for decisions where it was deserved, for the most part.
“Narcissistic abuse affects cognition and can make one feel as dumb as post.” So true.
“I believed all his excuses but put the blame for decisions where it was deserved, for the most part.”
Thanks for sharing. That’s interesting, and likely to be attributed to differing empathic traits.
WC, you’re welcome. That’s what i thought as well. It’s not that I lived guilt free, or gave him all the blame, it was just more measured than my almost across the board acceptance of his excuses for things. I felt very trapped, like I had no choice but to accept them. It was very isolating.
Your comment makes perfect sense to me. I can remember certain discussions and arguments that were about the most nonsensical things and the argument would go on and on and there was no resolution or compromise or ‘learning’. Then, some time later, the *same* topic would come up again and the same thing would happen. It was exasperating.
Please don’t think you were the only one. Also, please don’t feel dumb or stupid or like your cognition was affected. You were and are the ‘sane’ and reasonable one. It is all part of dealing with a narc and their control and manipulations.
WiserNow, thank you for writing these comments, you have hit a nerve, again in a good way. This is something that has held me back, for 10 years! I thought I was defective! Oh geez, so this morning, after 6 months studying at Tudor U, reading your words has put it in a whole new light, put it all into perspective, thank you so much! Your first paragraph makes me nauseous, I remember so vividly that sinking feeling when I would realize this had started. If I caught it early enough, I could usually figure a way out but much more often he ended up getting a lot of fuel. The frustration, even now looking back over a decade ago, is a real, physical sensation. I had largely put this out of my mind but your comment brought it front and center. I hope I can get it settled now. The affirmation that I wasn’t crazy or mentally detective is huge. It’s a huge relief. Thank you so much!
You’re very welcome A Victor, and thank you very much for your comments too. This experience is a huge learning process. I think it is definitely the biggest thing that has affected my life, so I can relate to what you’re saying. You’re not crazy or anything like that – far from it actually.
Keep looking forward A Victor, and keep believing that you can learn from it all and be stronger for it 🙂
WiserNow, thank you for being so understanding regarding the enormity of this education, the absolute life-changing-ness of it. As you said on the other thread, the before awareness and after awareness, it is a restructuring of everything we’ve known, absolutely powerful, if we let it happen. For the fear of future ensnarement alone, I almost feel like it’s not a choice but rather a must do, and do well. Thank you for confirming I’m not crazy. I didn’t think so really anyway but the way the thinking is skewed even as it is straightening is disconcerting to say the least. But I do appreciate the confirmation. I have enjoyed our chats, you are very knowledgeable and I am grateful that you are willing to share what you’ve learned. I feel this way about so many here, I’ve learned something from every single person, and each with their own unique perspective and presentation. It’s really been fun being here.
That’s okay A Victor, and thank you also, for your very kind comment. I have enjoyed our chats too, and I learn a lot from you and everyone else here, and from HG of course.
Yes, this subject is huge and the awareness gained here is a steep learning curve indeed. The ways in which each of us think and our individual ‘worldviews’ represent who we are, so to change that in a big way is life-changing.
It’s a lot to think about and learn. The effects of the awareness and the changes on our daily lives and on our thinking and emotions mean the learning is going to feel difficult and rough-going a lot of the time. I think that’s normal and happens to many of us. From the comments I’ve seen here over the past four years or so since I’ve been reading have shown that so many people go through emotional ups and downs, or they question themselves and have self-doubt, or they say things that get misinterpreted etc. I know because I’ve been one of those people and it still happens 😉 What I’ve also seen is that things definitely improve and keep getting better, so please know that you’re doing well and will keep getting stronger.
I find it fun here too. It’s a great place to learn and share our individual experiences with others who understand and can relate ☺️😘
Thank-you for your considerate reply. I don’t feel or think I am the only one; we all got duped by the Narcissist’s narrative in one form or another and then arrived here to discover otherwise. I just feel compelled to come to Harry’s defense in a lot of ways – this is partly due to the type of Empath that I am. HG has said elsewhere, that getting ensnared has nothing to do with intelligence but everything to do with emotional thinking. I also need to remind myself that for every time an Empath says “Can’t the victim see the discrepancies?” (Or something that looks obvious to that commenter) that while that Empath can see particular discrepancies in another’s life, they themselves, had something they were blind to in their own entanglement. Every victim – or survivor – has their own particular weaknesses, susceptibilities and blindspots.
Yes, you’re right. We all have our particular vulnerabilities. This subject is a continual learning process. I find that there’s something new to learn every day. I guess that will be the case as long as we have ’emotional thinking’, which can be both ‘good’ and ‘bad’, however we choose to look at it.
I didn’t mean to imply that you felt or thought you were the only one. I’m sorry if it came across that way. None of us here – and that includes Harry too – are the only ones. And I agree, ‘intelligence’ has nothing to do with it either. Absolutely anyone can get ‘ensnared’, even a member of the royal family.
For all their faults, at least narcissists don’t discriminate… there’s that, I guess 😉☺️
“For all their faults, at least narcissists don’t discriminate… there’s that, I guess 😉☺️”
Melmel, yes, gaslighting and shaming (not sure of an HG term for that), both can shut us down. I experienced gaslighting the most with my mother but shaming with all of them. Same effect, shutting down. (Ah, just read the rest of your comment, you covered shaming with emotional abuse, should’ve finished it before I began my response but I will leave it as it is something of an accomplishment to do on my phone). Mostly I wanted to commend you on catching the little nuances. I am so blind to those, I always see the forest and not the trees. Glad for people who see the trees!
We need to remember that Harry isn’t the sharpest knife in the block. Observing him today during the funeral, he seemed easily distracted, his head swiveling around like a tourist. William on the other hand, was steadfast and kept his eyes on the person in front of him as he walked behind Prince Phillip’s coffin.
I wonder if Harry has Attention Deficit.
I suspect too that MM would simply dismiss the 1918 Royal protocol by pointing out that exceptions were made for Princess Charlotte and Prince Louis (the protocol allows Prince George a title but not his siblings). In her world, William and Harry are on an equal footing, therefore their children should be treated the same.
Hi Supernova DE, on multiple occasions, especially the last few years, I heard my ex tell people straight up lies. I knew they were, he in that moment, according to HG, did not. This still boggles my mind because facts are facts but because of how convincing my ex was, I believe HG about this. Anyway, I had learned (very early on) that to try to set these lies straight would only result in making me look bad and would cause a problem at a later time, directly or indirectly related to said incident, from my husband. So it was not worth it. This was my experience and might be Harry’s, only he knows.
In the situation of Archie’s title, what amazes me is that more people in general don’t question it and find out the truth. As an American, I would not know if Archie would have a title unless I did the work to find out but when that came up in the interview, I did wonder about it. But many of us likely would not pursue it because it doesn’t matter to us. So I think she got away with her lie on a massive scale.
“Anyway, I had learned (very early on) that to try to set these lies straight would only result in making me look bad and would cause a problem at a later time, directly or indirectly related to said incident, from my husband. So it was not worth it. This was my experience and might be Harry’s, only he knows.”
Good point. I expressed something similar in another comment.
Harry would also be very well trained in helping carry and support the ‘facade’ of things – this would be inherent in growing up in the RF, I would think. The attitude that “we just do not air such things” or demonstrate outright conflict with other members of the RF. He would be very well trained in this regard, I am sure. Which is interesting when, of course, viewed in light Meghan and him bringing to public attention regarding supposed issues of racism etc., in the RF. This really exemplifies Harry having drunk the koolaid of Meghan’s narrative and/or his reduced empathy towards the Royal Family in contributing to the airing, publicly, of this matters…or what could be considered “dirty laundry” – true or untrue.
Yes, Harry would be doubly well trained about the not airing dirty laundry I suppose. I really feel for him. I saw a short video of him dancing spontaneously with some people in a market a few years ago, pre-Meghan. He looked so happy and carefree and brought the people such happiness too, it was delightful to see. I hope he can be that way again someday.
“I saw a short video of him dancing spontaneously with some people in a market a few years ago, pre-Meghan. He looked so happy and carefree and brought the people such happiness too, it was delightful to see. I hope he can be that way again someday.”
I hope he dances like that again someday too.
WhoCares and A Victor,
This thread is so relateable. In the dynamic with a narc, the empath ‘agrees’ with the narc, not because the empath is stupid or blind or gaslighted into being completely brainwashed.
It can be because the empath is already very used to the narc pulling stunts, or being argumentative, or being difficult, or being unreasonable, that it’s not worth getting drawn into a never-ending circular argument trying to establish ‘the truth’.
It can be a case of the empath deliberately avoiding the inevitable silent treatment, rage, tantrum, petulant sulking, or whatever other ‘manipulation’ the narc chooses to dole out if they don’t get their way.
So, when people look at Harry and think he’s not very bright or he’s being gaslighted into numbness, or he want’s to keep smiling because he’s on TV etc, they don’t give him enough credit for what he’s actually going through. He may just be doing the ‘strategic’ thing to avoid even more chaos.
There is a reason why a narc works hard to ‘seduce’ a victim and ensnare them. It is to make it difficult for the empath to walk away. Harry is now a new husband and father. He is isolated in a new country. He most likely doesn’t know he’s dealing with a narcissist and the fact that he is in devaluation and that things will get even worse. He doesn’t have the worldview of a narc, so how can he know?
All of these things mean he can’t just point blank start an argument on Oprah, by looking at Meghan and saying, “Will you please get real and tell the truth here? How on earth can you say that?!” Imagine the media fallout if he did that?
I think people in general have to consider this with more appreciation of what the empath is dealing with, rather than judging the empath as if the empath ‘should have known’.
Thank you WiserNow, that’s exactly what I was trying to say.
It becomes a matter of survival, picking your battles wisely, knowing what is worth the fight and what is not. For me, eventually only the children were worth it and even then it usually was something involving their actual safety, not even the lesser things such as what was best for them if presented with two options. Thankfully, he did not involve himself much in any capacity, including with the kids, so it was fairly infrequent even then, I was a well trained little empath. I do very much appreciate your understanding and acknowledgement of the predicament we can find ourselves in. Your comment brought tears to my eyes, it really hit a chord in a good way, very affirming. Thank you.
You’re very welcome A Victor. I am very happy to help. Thank you very much for your kind words. I’m glad I could help you in a good way xx
WC, the light is gone from his eyes now, now I see the confusion and the trying to make sense of things and also the wariness, ready to guard her from any attack should it be needed. If she is attacked, he may need to question his own choices. Also, if he were not to defend her, in the event it was necessary to do so, he would likely pay in a huge way later. It is so sad to see, so relatable also. I am beginning to understand the eye thing. I see it in my pictures from that time now too. It makes me sick.
Totally. This ain’t their first rodeo. PP probably used his trauma bond with PH all his life. This might be what PH has been trying to escape… It feeds into the idea that MM is Princess Diana 2.0… It went badly with his mother’s time in the media, but MM thought she could do better this time around, and she didn’t. Now one’s gone, and it didn’t suddenly get all better… What now? How do we play this? I think he’ll see. He has to.
Melmel, Harry may take a very long time to ‘see’ and fully understand about narcissism. He has yet to ‘revisit’ his trauma over losing his mother, come to terms with that as well as all the ‘issues’ he has been through – leaving the UK, leaving what he had known as ‘home comforts’, family and so on. So much to work through. It can take some people years, shorter time for others – depends on the support that they get and where it comes from. And it also depends on their own ‘brain’wiring’ – somettimes that in itself can get buried under so much trauma that it can get ‘missed’ and effectively be assumed to be diagnosed as this when it is not but that……
Yes, that’s true. Just because I had a clear Aha! moment that led me down this road to understanding much of what’s gone on in my own life, I forget that there’s still more that I am refusing to see because I haven’t reached the point in healing my past where I can really face the present logically. Like peeling layers of an onion. He may understand part of the dynamic between his mother and the RF, or identified who some of the narcissists are in his immediate family, but until he accesses and heals that deep part within him that is keeping him blind to MM, he won’t be able to see it. You are so right that we are all bound to present narcissists by our histories and past traumas. Thanks for that perspective.
Thank you for your response & sharing your views, Melmel.
I would really love to see a piece from you about “woke”ness in general, if you feel it has relevance to narcissism. I think the concept can affect us empaths who can turn on introspection/guilt/self doubt and find ourselves questioning if we are racist and we don’t know it.
There’s an article on Spiked called “The tyranny of ‘lived experience’” that addresses some of the Wokery Fuckery.
I do think HG found narciness on multiple political fronts in “America: You Are Being Conned,” so if you don’t have that one yet, it’s an eye-opener.
Personally I feel that guilt is a huge tool used by narcissists. It is not something that I will subject myself into. We can talk about policies but it doesn’t mean one of us is automatically bad because we look at things differently. When someone makes me feel that I have to prove to him or her that I am a good person by agreeing, I see that as a red flag and possibly indicative of narcissism or high narc traits. I agree that America is Being Conned affirmed and enlightened me on that.
I have been wondering about the Cancel Culture too. I understand canceling molesters of children or terrorists but I can’t understand destroying a person’s livelihood and career because of a tweet many years ago that the person has already apologized for. I remember Matthew McConaughey said about this how he doesn’t understand why there’s no more forgiveness. I remember growing up how forgiving is considered to be an admirable deed but now it seems like it has become outdated when it comes to political opinions. I personally think forgiveness should not be forced and sometimes people don’t have to forgive especially someone who has been so abusive. But I don’t get canceling someone because of some words that they have said. Wouldn’t that fall within black and white thinking?
I have been thinking about this, and I hope it’s OK if I jump in to put down some of my thoughts. They are not all fully formed, but I’d like to work it out in words if that’s OK…
“Woke”ness is essentially narcissistic twisting of social empathy. I think there are some things that we can look at and say clearly: that is Wrong. Racism, discrimination, physical and sexual abuse, etc. The Empathic traits in us want to expose the wrongness, and correct it somehow. So we speak out against these issues in ways that we hope will bring truth and light into society and effect societal change for the Greater Good. When the issues are exposed, the narcissists do one of two things:
1. They see that there is an uprising against the issue, and jump on the bandwagon to make use of the issue in order to obtain fuel from the Empaths that are involved in the “movement”. They make the Issue about themselves in order to control the Empaths that are invested in global change. And they twist the actual Issue to make it relevant to their own narrative (Character Acquisition for the purposes of exerting Control, Mirroring, Revision of History etc). The end result of this is that Empaths who are NOT racists or abusers sense the Wrongness in the narcissists’ twisting of the issue, and wonder if they too could be what they abhor since the actual problem has become so twisted (in order to serve a function for the narcissist).
2. They see the uprising as a Threat to their Control (likely because of the narcissists who are twisting and using the Issue for their own acquisition of fuel), and they lash out at the Issue by saying that the uprising is a “Woke Mob”. This is Compartmentalization, or maybe the opposite of compartmentalization in lumping an entire movement against actual Wrongness as “Woke”. This is gaslighting as then the Empaths who are emotionally invested in affecting societal change for Good are made to feel as though they are part of the Woke Mob, and are participating in Evil Cancel Culture (which I will mention below).
In the context of Narcissistic abuse, we on this blog could be considered “Woke”. We have identified that something is Wrong, and have used HG’s unparalleled information to “awaken” from our blinded state. On other threads, I have read it described as numbness, sleep walking, exhaustion, depression. For myself it is like a fog. Thick, dense fog that makes it impossible to see, feels like it weighs me down body, mind, and spirit, and obstructs true and healthy connection with others. We see the damage that has occurred in our own lives and seek to protect and rescue others from psychological and emotional abuse by sharing our experiences and learning. We are becoming an uprising.
In my own experience, I have witnessed how narcissists are starting to catch on to this movement and twist it to make us seem (again) like we are (still) unhinged. This is what is happening right now with my Employer, and why I have completely given over that conflict to those who are better equipped to deal with it. This will be the response by narcissists to gaslight and smear us into submission. It leaves us (me) feeling like: 1. I am taking “advantage” of someone or something for financial gain, 2. I am making “too big” of a deal out of “nothing”, 3. I have gone down this rabbit hole and am really losing my grip on “reality”, 4. I am being “rude” or “difficult” by setting and maintaining healthy boundaries for myself and my children, 5. I am the narcissist, the borderline, the manipulator, the evil one. Narcissists are the ones that project this narrative, but non-narcissists take up the cry as well as part of the effective Smear Campaign. They see that the abuse is Wrong, but are gaslighted into believing that it’s either not happening or that it’s no big deal.
In this context, one could see how Cancel Culture could be a twisting or extreme form of the “Woke Mob” going GOSO. I think that there is enough information out there that states that the only way to deal with a narcissist is to GOSO. The younger generation has absorbed this information and is using it to remove whatever they feel is toxic in their lives (the empaths/normals), OR in the case of the narcissists, to exert control through devaluation and discard. Devaluation occurs through Discard because they are so connected. When they remove something from their social media, it leaves a big gaping hole because they ARE their social media, and this tells everyone who is connected to them that they perceive the removed individual/business/group to be toxic (or a Threat to their Control). Because the connection is artificial via social media, it is impossible to tell whether the person cancelling is a narcissist or non-narcissist. Undoubtedly there is a mix of both in any “cancellation”, so all the outside person sees is that a “majority” of people found their involvement with the Issue as toxic, and cancelled them.
To use PIers Morgan as an example:
He is a narcissist. What he said is true, and none of it was racist or discriminatory, but was twisted by another narcissist to be those things. MM twisted his statement that he didn’t believe her into being discriminatory as it had the “potential” to deter people with Mental Illness from seeking help.
My goodness! I immediately thought: “Oh! She’s right! What if it DOES deter someone from seeking help?!?!?!?!?!”.
The truth is:
In that moment, when you are faced with a choice between seeking treatment/intervention or ending it all, you need to find something in your life to make the one choice, and PIers Morgan not believing MM is not going to make you choose the other. He is a news broadcaster. Not a doctor, or a therapist, or someone who would need to foot the bill for anyone’s mental health treatment. His belief or disbelief is totally irrelevant in her (or anyone’s) access to treatment. In fact, MM probably did more damage by stating that she did seek help and was turned away by the RF because I suspect this was either a total falsehood, or a VERY twisted version of the truth, and someone might think: “what if they turn me away because of how it looks or how much it will cost” rather than whether they are believed (which MM stated she was believed but still denied treatment).
Now I am actually more angry about the twisting of the Issue by MM as it is something that I am passionate about because of my own “lived experience”. The empaths truly invested in those Issues felt the Wrongness in the twisting, but are so connected to the Issue that their ET caused them to believe the twisting of MM, rather than using Logic to see that Piers Morgan is allowed to say he doesn’t believe MM under the Rightness of Freedom of Speech. Cancelling PM was largely due to the Twisted Complaint, but possibly the other thousands of complaints were a mix of narcissists as well as normals/empaths whose ET was triggered by his narcissistic outburst on national television. Those normals/empaths may be sensitized to GOSO as the only really effective method to dealing with a narcissist, and if they (cognitively or instinctively) identified him as a narcissist, “cancelling” him was, in fact, the only effective way to deal with their own ET.
PM calls them (and us) Woke Mob because “woke”ness is a Threat to his Control. Maybe there’s nothing really wrong with being Woke. There is nothing really wrong with “Cancel” culture. As long as our motivations for the behaviour are not to exert control or influence on other people, we are allowed to make judgements between Right and Wrong, and we are allowed to remove toxic influences in our lives in order to GOSO and fight our Emotional Thinking so that our emotional empathy is not corrupted anymore.
I actually wish I could take back some language that has been twisted. Words like “lived experience”, and “authentic”, and “my truth”… because those are powerful tools when we are finding ways to make sense of our lives in order to heal from our past and benefit our Present and Future selves. Using those words makes me part of the Woke Mob, and GOSO makes me part of Cancel Culture, but I’m going to have to find a way to live with that.
If anyone managed to get through all that, cheers! And once again, thanks for letting me vent my spleen.
Excellent as always HG. HG, reading in the paper recently about the phone call between Harry and Charles and William. Are you going to do a video on the relationship between Harry and William and how this interview will effect the outcome in the long run of their relationship. Thank you HG.
I’d love one on Carol Baskin and Joey exotic. Jeeees they have to be two of the most see through Ns ever to have existed.
I’m here to vent.
So the Daily Mail online is obviously running the various Markle Harry articles since the Oprah interview. They have a comments section below each article. Why? Could it be for people to comment?! So I comment. I comment that Markle is a narcissist. I back my comments up. I explain the behaviours. I attempt to increase awareness.
I keep getting notifications from DM saying my comments have been removed. They have received complaints. Complaints about what?! I don’t name call, I am not aggressive, I don’t argue with other readers. I just comment that her behaviours are due to the fact she is a narcissist. (See this has aggravated me now because it is unjust.)
Tell me how are we supposed to increase awareness about narcissism if we aren’t even allowed to use the word narcissist? I’m seriously aggravated. My comments get upvotes for a while then they get removed.
I wrote back to the DM Online and asserted my position for what good it will do. Markle and her woke brigade are seriously getting on my nerves.
I’m going to have my chocolate egg now. I’m going to smash it on the kitchen counter and pretend….
Wow TS, that is very interesting! What in the world would their problem be with what you’re writing? MM is being woke and they like it? Very interesting. I would not have thought it would go this way. How is informing people about narcissism NOT woke? Except that she’s a celeb? Very interesting. I wonder if you had written the same about Piers Morgan if they would have responded the same way??
A lot of it seems to revolve around the following.
Royalist v Anti Royalist
If Markle lied then Harry lied. Why am I going for Markle not Harry?
Racism. Don’t believe Markle, then I’m racist.
Zero understanding of what narcissism is.
Above all. Zero research. They have no background. It’s all polarised around the Oprah interview and unsubstantiated ‘The press attacked her’. It’s like a bad echo of Markle herself. Weird.
Yes, weird. Thank you for the explanation, it actually makes some odd sort of sense.
From what I’ve noticed, there seems to be a lot of misinformation floating around about what “narcissism” and “narcissist” means. I’ve seen some really weird stuff out there. For that reason, if I comment on things, I try to stick with explaining character traits and behaviors, and that seems to go over a little better?
Yes, WildViolet, that makes sense, thank you.
Yes, that’s a good point. Comments are often only short too. So it’s difficult to explain anything properly.
The Oprah interview has generated such interest. It’s such a great opportunity to raise awareness. Piers Morgan continues to keep it going too.
I chatted to someone on a forum today and recommended HG’s series based on her comment being well reasoned. She had already listened to all of the episodes and commented how brilliant the ‘Very Royal’ series is! That was really encouraging. There are more of us out there!
Truthseeker- that’s a good idea. Guide people to where they can get the information. Some people will be open to it, some won’t. But it is nice to know when information has reached people.
If you post a reply to someone’s comment, you can often sneak it past the Sussex Squad. This requires a laptop; can’t reply on a phone. Look near the top of the “Best” and yes, “Worst” columns to find a comment that’s a had a lot of responses. Not only will yours be more likely to escape the bleary-eyed SS (they can’t check everything, but it will also be read by more people. Responders to an original post often check back to see if anyone has replied to their reply.
This is particularly satisfying if someone responds to one of our posts referring readers to the “Royal Narcissist” series; I’ve seen replies calling it “spot-on” and “fascinating.” It also satisfies whatever sense of justice I have in terms of slamming Harry: Harry obviously isn’t the brightest bulb on the tree, but he’s not a narcissist himself and is mostly going along with her, as HG has pointed out, because 1) he accepts her worldview, and even if he has doubts (possibly increasing exponentially), 2) he wants to keep peace in the house.
Thank you for this. I’m on various platforms. I do head for the comments with high views for the reasons you said. Sometimes I just comment and I see the likes go up, so it enrages me when it gets removed. I don’t attack, I just state the facts and then name drop HG or the Very Royal Narcissist You Tube series. Links I seem to get caught with. Not always, more so with newspaper articles than forums etc.
I’ll do as you suggest Violetta. Respond to someone else’s comment more.
The Markle woke brigade is just unbelievable. I am absolutely astounded by their complete inability to even consider an alternative view.
Violetta, I would tame you and your pussy in bed but you are too ugly and old and I would never fuck you.
You have your name completely wrong.
Who let the gulls in? (Splat! Splat Splat Splat Splat!)
Flyby seagulls in?
(Splat! Splat Splat Splat Splat!)
What happens Mr. Tudor, we don’t play anymore?. You always let me start but never finish you off.
Anyway, I’m out of here. In the end I believe that I’m superior to all of you, none of you will accept it and nobody or anything can change or alter this idea of superiority in my mind. So it is totally pointless except for extracting Challenge Fuel of course but I don’t need that shit in my life like my friend H.G.
Greetings Mr. Tudor.
Anybody order a word salad?
Hilarious, HG. (no, I didn’t order a word salad).
Oh, Foxtrot Oscar & take your anal probe with you on your way back.
HG, how is it, everywhere there is always one, trying to ruin the good times of everyone else. If I was you, I wouldn’t waste your energy responding.
It is called the need to nullify the threat to control posed by the excellence of my work and because people appreciate it. The envious narcissists cannot help themselves since this threatens their control and they are duty bound to try to nullify that threat. You see this on YouTube. I provide unrivalled world class information which helps people and there is always the occasional downvote. I am not making recordings laughing at victims or name calling them, I am providing our perspective in a way which can be understood and with information which provides answers and practical solutions. Nobody empathic would downvote the provision of such information, it is the handful of unaware narcissists who cannot stand my excellence and popularity.
I allow the odd comment through to enable people to gain further understanding.
Too right, HG! Do you get many of these grim comments to moderate?
No. They tend to try to clutter up my inbox than through comments.
HG, I have a question here. I think I must have missed a step somewhere along the line.
You have explained that Lesser and Mid Range narcissists are unaware. So if a Mid Range narcissist announces herself as a Mid Range Narcissist and is in fact a Mid Range Narcissist then is the individual not aware?
I understand that a Mid Ranger can’t ‘train up’ move schools and become Greater due to the instinctive response which will always remain instinctive. I understand the narcissist that would be king concept. Though even here the individual is accurate in identifying their narcissism but believes they are a Greater. I don’t understand what is going on with this self announcement thing though.
I assumed that actually they were misguided normals wanting to be different / interesting. Could I get clarification on this please? I’m not fully understanding.
Apologies if this is a dumb question or it has already been covered.
I’m still reeling from the devastating news that Bird Turd Salad doesn’t fancy a shag with me….what am I doing wrong? Is it because I criticized Meghan Markle, or is it because I admitted to reading birdcage-liner DM?
Bring on the chocolate ice cream, the rum, and the puppies!
Now I’m going off to write some very bad poetry.
I’m sure you are! It was quite devastating news. It might take some time for you to get over it…..
Ahh there we are. That’s better isn’t it?
It was a little odd though. Why pick out your name as opposed to any other name? I assume the individual has flown through here previously and engaged with you under a different name. Then adopted a stealth position and elected to reappear with a new persona. That reminds me. I need to change my screensaver. That Windows light house is looking very tired!!
Oh gosh HG, that must be a right pain in the arse, having to spend time sorting through a load of dodgy e-mails! The joys of social media!
“It might take some time for you to get over it…..
Ahh there we are. That’s better isn’t it?”
Windows lighthouse–you don’t really think–her Very Own Self?
I have encountered the Splatting Seagull of Splatting Seagulls.
I feel humble, yet proud.
Wait, didn’t she say she was never coming back–as usual?
Ha ha! Could be!
Windows Lighthouse springs to mind because she is due a visit and as we know, they just can’t stay away.
If it isn’t, then it has to be another seagull that you have batted away! She homed in on only two people there. You and HG.
“Good evening! This is your narcissism speaking. May I ask, are those two under control?”
“You know what to do.”
“Squawk Squawk “
The post was in reasonably fluent English, so we can weed out some of the fly-bys. (There’ve been a number whose spelling and punctuation showed nothing less than ingenuity.)
It could indeed be Her Very Own Self–if she’s finally figured out how to change that lighthouse.
We need appropriate incidental music:
It is not her.
Looks like my name’s not Nancy after all!
Sometimes I worry about you!
Violetta is young and beautiful and I dare say would bolt at the thought.
And we all know the only thing you get to fuck is your own hand, and even that dries up at the prospect!
Thank you for your kind words, but I’m quite average-looking these days.
However, I would still bolt at the thought. I may not be able to attract all those sporadically-employed filmmakers who once tried to dazzle me with flowers, chocolates, & promises they didn’t intend to keep, but I am not so desperate for action that I am willing to settle for Jonathan Livingston Gull-Guano.
Oh look – it’s stupid o’clock and an exhibit for this segment has arrived right on time claiming awareness. So tragically stupid that it’s unaware that it’s unaware.
Tell you who this reminds me of.
Habalala The Upper Midrange Narcissist off YouTube. The one who turned into a Greater and so went off to be the pet for the other narc at Empath Uprising. That still amuses me.
No subtlety in the comment. No intelligence. Just the blatant attack.
TS, I am not surprised to read what you have to say. So typical. So ignorant. So frustrating. But, hey, that is ONE tabloid. Just one. There’s plenty more. Other avenues to try……
Meghan’s ‘holier than thou’ facade is being ripped apart by others…… I laughed at what Jeremy Clarkson had to say – he’s a twat yet reminds me of Piers Morgan – loud mouthed & not with-holding their ‘views’……
Hope the chocolate egg helped…..
It annoys the crap out of me. So then I just turn stubborn. I’d just had two removed back to back and saw the notifications, which set me off ha ha! They don’t even argue the point, they just complain. That’s worse. Argue with me but don’t sneak off and complain, that’s just cowardice.
PIers Morgan makes a fair point. You can’t have a situation where you are unable to voice your opinion about a person without being cancelled. It’s just not right. I could write whatever I wanted about Boris or Trump or Katie Price even, but not Markle. Oh no, not Markle. Grrrrrrrrrr!
( I didn’t smash the egg in the end. I decided to inhale the chocolatey goodness from the box instead.)
TS, “Argue with me but don’t sneak off and complain, that’s just cowardice”……that alone rules out the MRNs anyway 😉 Yeah, we can say whatever we like about Megsie on KTN site (laughing)….. LOL about the egg…..
DM has the advantage of no paywall for reading or posting.
“I’m going to smash it on the kitchen counter and pretend….”
I understand your frustration and the sentiment of unfairness you feel when your goal is to get the largest number of people to grasp a certain idea but they hear it in a totally different way. I think that you choosed a really difficult place and difficult video to introduce such a sensitive topic, keep in mind that in general, people do not know about narcissists or have a lot of cliches about it, so no matter how you express it ,for 80% of readers, you are accusing a person they like of being a narcissist, a term that has a verry negative conotation, so you must be a hater, a racist, a sexist ext …
What i’m trying to say, is that for a blog like this or on youtube where readers or listeners are familiar with the concept of narcissism and nobody findes themselves here by pure hasard, it is easier to understand that it is a practical exemple that illustrates abstract concepts that where presented before ( the equivalent of labs at school) and by no means an attack against the relevent individual that is analysed. For a contexte where narcissism insn’t the main topic, i think that it would be better to refer people to an article that dosn’t site a persons name so they would focus on the knowlege not the name.
It’s nice to hear from you. I hope you are keeping well.
Yes, I see what you mean. On the one hand the Piers Morgan / Oprah / Meghan debate is an ideal platform to raise awareness because it is such a hot topic and in various countries. You are right though, many people commenting about the newspaper articles aren’t aware of narcissism and might not have been directly impacted by it. They are Team Royal, Team Meghan, or Team Morgan. The videos work on YouTube because as you say, people are already interested and invested in the subject of narcissism.
I see what you mean about recommending an alternative more generic article. ‘The Assertion of Control’ for example. Something that describes the behaviours but removes the desire to ‘pick a team.’
Thank you for suggesting this. I’ll revisit the available articles and videos so that I have some alternatives up my sleeve!
Lockdown lifts here on Monday. I have my first training session at the gym at 9.30 Monday morning! I can’t wait. I stopped in to return some weights etc that I had borrowed from them over lockdown and the whole gym has had a makeover. Lots of new equipment for me to get tangled up in! I’ll be like a kid in a candy store on Monday, ha ha! How are things with you Liza? What have you been up to?
I am doing fine, thank you for asking, and i hope it is the same for you.
Congratulations for the unlockdown !!!
You are lifting weights ! i’m always impressed when i hear someone is doing sport and maintaning the rhythm even when the circumstances are not favorable. I’m not athletic at all i have no muscles and no stamina, when i lift by backpack with my laptop inside i see myself as a victime being mistreated, but i’m starting to feel jealous since even one of my 2 Bffs who is as lazy as me started gym this year so i will try to motivate myself.
Your comment made me giggle. Yes I’ve been disciplined over lockdown. Well, most of the time!
Weight training is a good way to get into fitness. I start with the idea, “I’m going to the gym. I want to look like a god.” Then after a few weeks I change to, “Yay! I couldn’t do those two weeks ago! Now I can!” I see improvement and feel pride in myself and at that point I’m hooked.
When I went in the other day the owner said, “Come with me.” He led me through to the studio and grinned. There, hanging in one corner was a brand new punch bag. I had previously had to partner and punch their hands. Now, I get to hit something any time I want to! It was thoughtful of him to remember. Finding the right gym with the right people is important.
Try the gym Liza you might like it. It doesn’t matter how weak or strong you are when you start. What matters is that soon you will get stronger and you will like that feeling I think. Something that you do that is just for you. I’m not super strong but I’ve got a great right hook! Ha ha!
We have a kicking bag in our home because of my son’s tae kwon do training, it is great fun and a solid workout. I also purchased a bike trainer last fall, which I love, cycling ia a favorite activity! We also have a pull-up bar and this winter my son purchased a climbing trainer. What is great is that these are in my home, I am not a gym person either. I did go rock climbing with my son during the winter, when Covid restrictions were lightened a bit, that was fun and I’ve been gaining on heights issue a bit. It was nice because it was very quiet, not many there, so we did use the gym a bit there, it was fun going with my son. Now that it’s spring walking and biking outside is back to my favorite place to workout. All of these are so helpful with the ups and downs of life and have been especially helpful going through all this learning. It’s so encouraging to hear how others stay in shape and that they do! It’s easy to get sluggish, especially with Covid and winter.
Actually, i have a verry midrange narcissist style of behavior when it comes to sport, i do want a toned body and it gets on my nerves when i look at my body and the only hard parts i find are my knees and my elbows, buuuuuuuuuuuuut, i don’t want to put in the required efforts and decipline it takes to achieve that goal.
Thank you for your advices i will seriously try my best to put them to practice this time, maybe my fear of being the only weakling in the groupe will maintain my determination.
Don’t be hard on yourself the gym is not for everyone.If you are not feeling the vibe it’s probably not for you.
Barre and dance are amazing methods of toning up also .
I take my hat off to you. Rock climbing would terrify the living daylights out of me! I can’t go up. As crazy as it sounds I can go down, so I could do a parachute jump but holding on to a rock face? No, just no. Hahaha!
I remember being on holiday as a tiny kid. We were on a beach and the tide came in and cut off the beach. We had to go up this really steep incline from the beach with no path. My mum started to cry, froze and clung to the side. My dad carried me to the top on his back and made me promise to sit in that spot and not move. To which I replied, “Daddy are there snakes?”
“Do you think I would ever leave you where there would be snakes child?”
Off he went to get my mum and re emerged with my mum and all the beach stuff on his back ha ha. Strong as an ox my dad.
I think that might be why I can’t go up!
TS, after I posted that comment I thought, wow, I made myself sound like a…avid, risk-taking, body conscious…narcissist! Haha, no! I don’t do all of those things everyday, or even every week. The rock climbing was at an indoor facility closer to our home. I would never, ever go rock climbing outdoors! I love roller coasters, hate ferris wheels. I love your story about your parents. I had a similar experience but I was married to a narcissist who belittled me for my fear and offered no help. It was traumatizing. I’m happy for your mom!
I really posted my previous comment to show there are alternatives to the gym.
Just headed to the gym ( in the snow! Proper snow! Not that pretend snow you get). I am wearing my brand new gym outfit.
I look hot.
Hahahaha!!! Thank you, yes I do!!!
But…do you know where I live??? We get real snow!
Thank you!! I love a good laugh!!
Thank you for your encouragement and advices <3 , i will try different things until i finde what suits me the best.
Ha ha, good x
No, I know you aren’t British so I assumed somewhere in the vast expanse of the US. Given your comment I’m going to switch to…. Canada?
Where do you live AV ?
I live in Minnesota. It is actually snowing here tonight. I went on a lovely walk in the woods today with my daughter, it was cold but so nice, so beautiful. A place I had never been before with a beautiful little stream winding around, and stepping stones to cross it sometimes, very magical. And with a few snowflakes even then.
We are not far from where there is a lot of upheaval currently, 40 miles or so. It is an interesting thing, our outstate police are being sent to help, there is concern for their safety of course and also that of the people who live in that area and also that of those who are rioting. Many facets to it.
Are you British? I don’t know where many on the blog are, only a few. I have enjoyed very much the internationality of this blog, different than any I’ve been on before.
Minnesota looks beautiful! I have never visited. I was in the South when I lived in the US. The way you describe the snow, does indeed sound magical, a proper change of seasons is lovely, though snow in April I imagine is quite late for you too.
I am British, a Northerner, born in a county called Lancashire. I’m trying to think of somewhere famous in Lancashire you would have heard of, but really I grew up in a small village so a country girl at heart. I have moved around a lot since uni. Lived in Europe for short periods of time and then the US for 10 years before moving back home 3.5 years ago. This is the longest I have stayed in one spot! I now live close to my parents in Gloucestershire. I’m fortunate. It’s a very pretty part of the world. The tourists are just starting to flock back again. It was nice to enjoy the area without them here but seeing them again is a sign that life is returning to normal, which has to be a good thing!
Try Blackpool. Or Pendle Hill. But not Chorley cakes.
I do love Minnesota, snow in April is not uncommon but not tons and it doesn’t last long. But, I don’t plant until mid-late May.
What’s wrong with Chorley Cakes? Blackpool and Pendle Hill look lovely. I was in England 2 years ago but we didn’t get to the West or North really. I stayed in Ely, Cambridgeshire, and saw the Southern and Eastern coasts, London of course and much in-between all of these. I had hoped to get back before my friends moved, to see the Lake District and get into Scotland, but Covid prevented that and now they’ll be moving to Italy soon. It will be fun to visit there too though, once restrictions lift. It was an amazing trip, you live in a beautiful place too!
Blackpool is a narcissist town. Looks great at first but look closer and it has an odious underbelly. It is all lights and shiny stuff on the promenade, go one street back and it is guesthouses converted into halfway houses containing the problematic dregs of society dumped there from other places in the UK that do not want those people. There are adverts in British prisons to encourage inmates to go to Blackpool when they depart prison. It is a shit hole.
That’s how I felt about Brighton. Fun to visit but would not want to stay. The Palace was pretty cool though.
I think the Waltzer is similar to our Tilt-a-Whirl, love it. Those questionable carnival workers, try though they might, have been unable to cause any upchucking to occur from me, the faster it spins, the better!
The Lanes during a power cut was an entertaining place.
It sounds like there’s a good story here! We love your stories!
HG, no wonder I never felt ‘comfortable’ when in Blackpool in the past. My instincts obviously sensed the ‘narcissist town’ as such. Skipton (Yorks) ‘felt’ better, nice place. Loved your description of Blackpool – agree on “containing the problematic dregs of society” (a few narcissists from my past live there).
Absolutely! Steer well clear of Chorley cakes. Blackpool illuminations as a kid. Maiden voyage on my first Waltzer at the Pleasure Beach with dad. Happy times!
What is a Waltzer?
A fairground ride. You sit in a carriage which seats around four people. It moves around in a circle and also spins around on itself. If you are a moderately attractive female, your carriage will attract the attention of some reprobate fairground hand who will camp onto your carriage and keep shouting “Scream if you want to go faster” whilst spinning you around and around as you scream for him to stop. He mistakes your screams of objection for delight, thus spins you all the more and you end up throwing up your hot dogs, candy floss and ice cream. A great day out.
Very funny description, HG – it sounds like a great day out…(not really :))
Liverpool was historically in Lancashire, so if you’re a Beatles fan, there is that.
“40,000 holes in Blackburn, Lancashire” and all that.
My dad used to go to the Cavern to watch the Beatles. Xx
They were practically punk before Brian Epstein cleaned them up and put them in Pierre Cardin collarless suits. Do an image search: in some photos from Hamburg, they were in head-to-toe black leather and clearly under the influence of God knows what. Even in bootleg covers of things like “Red Sails in the Sunset,” you can already hear they were finding their sound, especially when you listen to other versions of the same songs.
“Try Blackpool. Or Pendle Hill. But not Chorley cakes.”
Have you seen every city and village in the United Kingdom?
All of them more than once?
Is that an interest of yours?
When you do what I do, you cover a lot of ground.
Laughing at HG’s description of the Waltzer. That’s exactly what it’s like. I love them though and I always go faster haha!
Yes, Blackpool is as HG described too. Not a place to visit if you come over. As a kid, you see the fairground, donkey rides on the beach and streets lined with candy floss and trinket sellers. So it all seems magical, the reality is as HG describes. A few streets back off the promenade and it’s rough, I expect it’s worse now than it was then. It is indeed a narcissist town in this respect.
I love the Lake District. That is worth a visit. I used to go up every New Year at one point. I have attachment to that area. Different landscape to Scotland, less wild, pretty, it has a bespoke ‘feel’ to it.
I’ve moved around a fair bit in England. I am unfamiliar with Scotland really but got married in Perth. I haven’t been much further North than that, I’d like to though at some point. Land of folklore and legend. A belief in magic and the little people is quite commonplace up there I think. It sounds right up my street!
TS, we share a love of spinning fast!
Blackpool is to be avoided, good to know, just in case…
The Lake District and Scotland (because of Highlander, Adrian Paul, biggest tv crush ever!) had I made it for a second visit. Also Coventry as I am a descendent of Lady Godiva. My biggest goal was Norway, it is so close on the map, lol! As I am half Norwegian, and it seems amazing, it is my top bucket list destination. I figure many of the Vikings were narcissists and I have often wished I would’ve lived back then.
Check out the northern states if you get back to the US ever, there is a lot to see up here also!
Coventry is a concrete hell hole.
Haha, is that your real opinion?? 🙂
Cross that one off then. Thank you!
Ahh AV, real snow! We don’t get much of that where I live! It did snow a bit the other week, but didn’t settle. Still excited me though! ⛄
HG, your description of Blackpool did make me laugh! Never been there before, and can’t say I particularly fancy it now either!
AV, waltzers are horrible! Only been on one once, and I felt like I was going to get thrown out of the thing! Imagine being in an open washing machine on the spin cycle! How people find them a thrill, I don’t know?!
JB, if you come to the US, don’t go on a Tilt-a-Whirl. If I get back to England, I will find a Waltzer! 🙂
I must admit the mention of Chorley cakes made my ears prick up!
I am from the North and I knew a lass from Chorley.
Lovely woman if not a bit erratic at times! The type who would be forever attracting trouble, even when she genuinely didn’t mean it!
She’s doing OK. Empath I think, though you’d sometimes struggle to see that.
I agree with Hg on Blackpool. Avoid avoid!
Blackpool sounds like Wildwood or Seaside Heights, NJ. The waltzer sounds like the Tilt a whirl, and candy floss sounds like cotton candy. I don’t need to visit Blackpool because it seems in essence, I have already been there.
NJFilly, I recently came across a discussion between you and I about the rating system of animals. It made me laugh!! I was so sad not to have received any notification of it at the time, I stand by my rating system! I do understand other’s not agreeing however! Thank you for the laugh!
Hi A Victor:
I’m glad you had a good laugh, unfortunately, I don’t remember the discussion so I don’t know what was said. I do enjoy talking about animals, though.
I no longer get notifications about comments posted on a particular thread the way I used to, so it’s very difficult to follow conversations. I only get notified if somebody responds directly to me. WordPress has many issues.
NJFilly, an hour or so after I wrote that comment, my conure laid her very first egg!! I was wanting to tell you, thinking you’d understand my excitement, but had already sent my previous comment. Well, there you are! I took a picture of it. Lol!!
Great!! Yes, I completely understand your excitement! I have so many random photos of “special animal moments” that mean so much to me but anybody else, upon looking at them, would not understand the purpose of the picture.
I hear Wildwood’s gone gentrified, but back in the day, it was certainly like that. One of my brother’s friends may have single-handedly destroyed the Ozone layer with all the product she used to create and maintain her Big Hair before a night out in Wildwood.
But I don’t understand the problem with Chorley cakes. Are they anything other than flattened Eccles cakes?
Candy floss is your cotton candy. Yours tends to be flavoured though. Or at least it was where I was in the US. Ours just tastes of sugar! Blackpool sells a specific kind of hat. ‘Kiss me Quick’, Blackpool rock, (hard candy sticks with the word Blackpool running through them) and sugar dummies on ribbons (pacifier shaped hard candy). It’s a classy place, but then I’m a classy broad!
Sounds like the Disney Mad Hatter’s Tea Party ride, as redesigned by a psychotic.
The reprobate fairground hand only pretends to mistake your screams of objection for delight, so make a point of throwing up your hot dogs, candy floss, and ice cream in his direction.
Dear Mr Tudor,
Your amusing ‘dialogues’ remind me of Reddington from The Blacklist!
Luv Bubbles xx 😘
Aw Bubbles! I didn’t realize you also watch The Blacklist! It’s right now one of my favorite shows! I do think Reddington is a narcissist though.
AV, I have been to the U.S once, 16 years ago. Went to New York. Not normally into big cities but I loved it! Think it all felt so familiar because of films, etc. Got asked for I.D because I didn’t look old enough to drink! Wish that happened nowadays! 😂 Would love to go back some day.
JB, I love New York, to visit. I would only want to live there for one year, in one of the penthouses at the top of a “sky scraper”, as we used to call them. I always thought it would be fun to watch the goings on below, the hustle and bustle. But for long term living I prefer not to be in a city. And I understand the ID thing. It is sad when that stops!
‘Coventry is a concrete hell hole.’
AV, York would be nicer if interested in the Vikings. Lovely at Christmas. I met up with the online narc in York one Christmas. Don’t let that put you off though!
A year or so later, I was close by with work so took the weekend and stayed in the same hotel but alone. Walked the same streets etc in an attempt to lay the ghost. I thought to myself, I’ll allow myself this weekend, then, once I leave, that’s it, no more thinking about it. It didn’t work.
I remember eating alone in a little tapas restaurant not far from the hotel. The waiter kept coming over to talk to me. I think he felt sorry for me, he was rushed off his feet but kept circling back. Probably another empath picking up on the ache.
That’s the second time I’ve done that, run away alone to try to get over someone. To allow time to relive and replay. It’s almost self harm in a way. The first time was during a split from Love of My Life Guy. I went to the Lake District alone on the weekend of his birthday.
This is where we differ from the normals I think. When our hearts break, they truly break. I don’t believe that normals experience emotional pain to the same depth that we do. I don’t believe there is the same capacity for it.
Make sure you do the Micklegate run. Oh and see how many Old Peculiers you can slake in the Spread Eagle before collapsing.
TS, thank you for the recommendation of York, I will keep that in mind. Also, I believe you are correct about how normals experience emotional pain as opposed to empaths. I don’t think they get as invested in the same, likely not healthy, manner and I also think they keep track of who they are better than empaths. I wish I was a normal very often. I see my normal friends and they just seem to glide through life, it would be so much simpler.
TS, I am sorry for the pain you experienced, I hope your “running away” helped you sort through it.
The Spread Eagle York?
That could be a surprising coincidence, or you take in a lot more information, and know us all a lot better than we realise.
(The Spread Eagle is a minute from the hotel I stayed in, which I didn’t give the name of, and it is where I met the narc on the first night of the weekend.)
I’ll go with coincidence! Ever the cynic.
Just out of interest though, what colour car do I drive? 😂
Okay, I was under the impression that York had virtually no night life. I met someone who said she transferred to Leeds Uni because of that. Another acquaintance confirmed it, scoffing, “They have two clubs and they’re both terrible.” This was in the Aughties; have things changed?
Clubs are poor but has a lot and I mean a lot of pubs and bars and many excellent ones.
Thank you. My “running away” helped the first time with Love Of My Life Guy (non narc). Different situation. I had ended it. My mum had seen his car parked in the driveway of his ex girlfriend’s house. What was worse was that it had been the weekend before my finals. The only weekend I didn’t make it home to see him.
My mum broke the news. She was in tears telling me as she knew how upset I’d be. She suggested I talk to him, ask him to explain. I decided an explanation wasn’t necessary. I remember driving round to his apartment and calmly removing all my stuff with him following me round asking what I was doing. I said not one word, removed a photo of myself hanging framed in his hallway and went to my car. He grabbed his keys and ran out barefoot after me. I closed the boot and he got hold of my arm, asked me again what was going on. I said “I didn’t know you went for redheads.” ( the ex, previously blonde had turned redhead). I watched for a second as the penny dropped and got in the car locking the doors. He went to the back of the car and stood there to stop me leaving so I slammed it in reverse and he had to jump out the way. Apparently, I caught his foot. Couldn’t say. That’s what happens when you get in the way of a moving car ! ( Who says empaths can’t blame shift?!)
His birthday was a few weeks later. He was 13 yrs older than me. Our joint friends were going to the party. I threw a bag in the car and disappeared myself. It did help not to be around. Total change of environment. We got back together again a while after before I ended it finally. He sent flowers consistently for a year. I do wonder about that occasionally.
The retracing in York didn’t work. Looking back on it, it was a different scenario with the narc. It wasn’t a change of scene like the first time. It was a revisiting and a desire to sink. Rub salt in the wound. Strange mindset really. I don’t regret doing it. I am a believer in allowing yourself to sink, as long as you don’t stay down too long. I still functioned perfectly on the outside. No one knew. I think I needed the break from carrying on as normal. As far as it fixing anything though, no. It didn’t get fixed until much later.
Funny when you look back on things. Quite honestly I don’t think I would behave any differently in the same scenarios today as I did then. I’m wired the way I’m wired and I’m ok with that. What I can attest to though is that non narcs can behave very similarly to narcs on the face of it. It’s the motivation that’s different and motivation is tough to see.
TS, your stories made me sad for you, though I know they were some time ago, memories can still hurt. Just curious, did you send your first ex through the NDC? Or how did you confirm he isn’t/wasn’t a narc? Was that relationship healthier? Did you have some way to determine motivation? I have not experienced a healthy relationship, hence my question, not trying pry. I am very interested in the idea of determining motivation, that would be helpful I think since we can all behave from our narcissism at times.
I agree with you on the sinking, sometimes I think it’s necessary, as long as we don’t stay there, like you said. It gives time to get things sorted out sometimes though, which can be helpful.
It certainly is, AV! 😂
No, I didn’t put Love Of My Life Guy through the narc detector. I have only put Online Narc through the NDC.
I have had five notable relationships. Online Narc I don’t count. He is technically number 6 and only 6 because of the havoc he caused! Ha ha! ( he doesn’t even get a full number). When I first arrived here I was pretty sure I had not encountered a narcissist prior to him. That was incorrect. I have identified Best Sex Ever Guy as MMRA. No doubt about it. Now looking back I have a degree of objectivity. I also learn a lot here from the articles videos and comments. I am sure of three non narcs. They carry no indicators for narcissism. Relationships that just ran their course and ended in a normal sad but not devastating way,
Love Of My Life Guy carries indicators on the face of it but they centre around individual events. They were mess ups on his part, hot headed responses on mine. There was no prolonged devaluation, there was no devaluation at all. We were together 4 years. The incident with the ex girlfriend was a betrayal of trust in my book. I responded accordingly and did wonder if he had been unfaithful. His friend’s wife, had been at the party. She was loyal to me, as was his friend actually, both disliked the ex. It was made very clear to me later, that whilst he attended, he did so out of a sense of obligation and, a business contact was going to be there also. So the motivation there was business and the birthday of his ex. He was at fault. He didn’t tell me, but, I had a thing about the ex. There had been overlap at the start. I arrived on the scene as his previous relationship was ending. He went back to her a month or so in with me. So I can see why he wouldn’t tell me but it doesn’t make it right and the timing was awful.
He had his own business. He was wealthy, his friends were wealthy, also with their own businesses. I was at uni, not broke but not in the same league financially. We would go to charity events. A couple of weeks before, he would take me to Manchester shopping. Pick out an armful of dresses and tell me to go try them on just for fun. He’d give his opinion but I chose the one I liked. As I was getting changed, he’d be at the till. I always had a new dress and shoes for the event. You could call narc on that. It was done in such a way as not to embarrass me though. He never told anyone else. I’d show up in the dress and off we’d go. Holidays were similar. He never told anyone else. We’d look at hotels and he’d give me a choice of five or 6 and say, “Which looks nicest to you?”. He bought the holiday, I would book a lovely restaurant and take him out to dinner. I tried my best to contribute in lots of different ways. You could call it love bombing. The motivation was honourable though.
The thing that broke us really was the fact that he wanted to be sure. His father had started the business, he worked damn hard to build it further. I think he was always concerned that his choice of partner could potentially threaten his company. When we were split up, me desperately sad, he waited. He could have fixed it, he could have explained himself. Instead, he waited to see if I would date someone else. I didn’t. He called me several months later, took me out to our favourite restaurant, told me that he had waited to see if I would date anyone else. He produced the ring, got down on one knee offering me what I’d wanted, just him. I couldn’t forgive him just sitting and waiting whilst my heart was breaking. The Grand Test to ascertain my worthiness. I couldn’t wrap my head around how a man like that could do that to a girl 13 yrs his junior. I told him I’d think about it. I ended it finally a week later. I had turned on him and I couldn’t turn back. I had started work by that point, I was promoted to the international division and moved location shortly after. The flowers came at that point for a full year.
Guess who was next on the scene? Yep, the MMRA. Like circling vultures I swear ha ha! Behaviours and markers are indicators but motivation has to be taken into account too. He messed up. Maybe I messed up. His motivation was warped but looking back on it, understandable and in my view, not narcissistic. He had a fair few narcissist friends though. It’s such a long tale I’d need three NDC to communicate a balanced account. No repetitive behaviours though, he didn’t manipulate, didn’t gas light, built my confidence if anything. He was bright, had depth, kept me on my toes. I learned a lot from him. In many ways he shaped part of the way I am today. I’d say non narcissist with a penchant for shooting himself in the foot! Overall, we worked. Healthy relationship, just with a sad end. Xx
Wow TS, that is one romantic story! It sounds like it was very nice. Thank you for explaining a bit more about the motive aspect. I think that is a pretty important piece and I’m just starting my thoughts about it.
Meh, I don’t do romantic ha ha! Come to think of it, I don’t do happy much either! I’m a Brit!
Super exciting!! Now that I am vaxxed I renewed my gym membership. I’m thrilled and looking forward to it.
“When you do what I do, you cover a lot of ground.”
‘You used to bring me roses, I wish you would again. But that was on the outside…’
Are you a prison officer HG?
Where does the second line come from Alexissmith? A prison officer? Hm. I know one those and, while I expect he is a narcissist, his life is no where near as exciting as HG’s sounds.
Great new that you are vaccinated BC30. It’ll feel good getting back into a routine. Something you do just for you. Xx
Narcissistic personality disorder is a medical diagnosis so laypeople using the word narcissist could be considered unqualified medical opinion.
I do not adhere to that perception BUT narcissists do: they hide behind it. They don’t want the world to be aware to their motivations and tactics. Which actually works out well for you HG, as I highly suspect that your work will eventually be the only clear analyses that we will have access to given that other narcissists seek to minimize and cover up their narcissism so that humanity in general remains ignorant and they don’t suffer a sudden loss of fuel as a result of us all becoming aware of who they are.
Where do we see a lot of narcissists? Government, the courts, the medical profession (especially the top-execs), the media. So whoever is managing the Daily Mail comments section is acting under the direction of at least one narcissist. Either from whoever submitted the complaint, but more likely someone on an administrative level… or possibly even within The Firm as an attempt to moderate the intensity of negative social media about Meghan (since she’s clearly a little sensitive about this and likely nursing the wound of her own sister calling her a narcissist)…
Just some thoughts
Hello Mel Mel,
Thank you for your comment. I totally agree. Narcissists will be in administrative positions as moderators also. There will be no debate or thinking what is right and wrong, just, ‘comment receives complaints, comment gets removed.’
I targeted the comments sections due to traffic numbers, when in actual fact given comments are short etc it’s very difficult to appear other than someone flinging the word narcissist around. You do see that quite a lot. Narcissist loudmouth / control freak kind of idea. You see the word used but in a way that undermines the danger of what the narcissist actually is. That frustrated me too. There were other ‘She’s a narc’ comments that weren’t removed, yet my logical and accurate comments got removed! I suspect for the very reasons you state.
I’m still going to comment in these areas but I’m going to do it more with a view to trying to get Narcsite into the comments section. They can’t catch them all can they? Ha ha!
There are other platforms with high traffic that I can go for in terms of reaching the correct groups of people who do actually want and need to understand. Thank you for your support Mel Mel and all who responded to my venting. I have taken your ideas on board and am going for an amended approach!
Keep us posted on your attempts and successes! I think that we all feel extremely frustrated that we can’t “out” the narcissists in our lives effectively. It would be a real win for the team if we somehow figured out how to share the truth without sounding nuts.
I’ve definitely enjoyed this series. For me personally, understanding the dynamic between these two individuals makes me have more of an appreciation for William and Kate. I am really looking forward to their reign as King & Queen when that time comes. They both are level-headed and drama-free individuals who are good people. I’m assuming that both of them are normals which is what I like about them. I would take them any day as King & Queen over an unaware narcissist who causes drama and an empath who can’t think straight because of his emotional thinking. Even though Harry is a fellow empath, I’m glad William is the first in line. William and Kate would better serve U.K. citizens and citizens worldwide.
I feel the same way. I was never really interested in the royals but I’ve followed Kate and Will on Instagram just because of how jarring Meghan is, it makes me appreciate them more