The Geyser Empath


The Geyser Empath is an individual who is empathic in nature with the additional tendency to fountain with emotion. All empaths are emotional, it goes with the territory but some empaths are far more emotional than others.

This type of empathic tendency is marked by high energy levels. One might even go so far as to say that shades of hyper activity start to appear with the Geyser Empath. He or she is always on the go, heading here and travelling there, seeking out people to see how they are and to exhibit their significant caring side with plenty of suitable expressions of concern, empathy and understanding.

The Geyser Empath is very useful for our kind because of how expressive they are with regard to their emotions. Their responses are exaggerated. This does not mean that they are false, far from it, the exaggeration appears as a heightened response which is very useful for us to witness and then allows us to mimic it.

There is no subtlety involved. When the Geyser Empath is happy it is shown as a torrent of joy, their concern is grave and focussed and their hurt is not of a silent tear but the wail and tears of the tortured. Such displays may seem melodramatic to some, but they are not, they are exactly how the Geyser Empath feels.

The Geyser Empath, owing to the high energy levels talks often about how he or she feels but this is not a case of them explaining that because it must be all about them, but rather they will convey those feelings in order to help others by causing them to better understand. When someone talks about being in despair, the Geyser Empath will relate how they know despair only too well and will articulate that feeling in order to demonstrate that they understand how the listener feels.

This person has a tissue thin skin and is highly sensitive. They are very easily hurt and when we lash out against them, they respond with a fountain of emotion. If they are praised, their thanks will gush from them with greater intensity than a Gwyneth Paltrow Oscar acceptance speech. If they are denigrated, the tears will not flow but they will cascade along with that trembling bottom lip and a near histrionic response to the pain caused by wounding words.

The Geyser Empath is unable to put on a brave face. Whilst the Carrier Empath is dogged and stoic in the face of adversity, focussing their empathy on resolving the situation in  a practical fashion, the Geyser Empath will dissolve in a bubbling mess of tears. They are completely unable to conceal their emotions, even for a short time. A Carrier Empath can do so because they shift their feelings on to solving a problem. The Geyser Empath does not have that function. They are excellent at tea and sympathy, kind and comforting words flowing, but of little use practically.

Unlike the Magnet Empath, the Geyser Empath is better dealing with intimate and one-on-one situations rather than handling a crowd. The Geyser Empath loves nothing more than finding an individual as their project and wanting to use their biggest asset in order to resolve issues; their utter devotion to love.

They are the greatest love devotees of all empaths, they truly believe that with love everything can be solved. Love conquers everything, all you need is love, love will save the day. If you were to ask them just how this happens, they could not answer, but explain that love works in mysterious ways and by being loving, showing love and acting with love in each and everything they do, this will resolve problems, heal hurt and bring happiness to all.

This devotion to love means that the Geyser Empath is big on romance and will readily fall prey to overt exhibitions of passion, love and romance from our kind. Any narcissist which presents as the knight in shining armour will have the Geyser Empath’s attention from the beginning as he or she believes they have found a kindred spirit.

The Geyser Empath’s overt displays of emotion make our task of mirroring so much easier. He or she will wear his or her heart on their sleeve and they will suffer repeated heartbreak. Notwithstanding this outcome, the Geyser Empath is undeterred. They will suffer misery and pain from this broken heart and they will then affirm their belief in love and bounce back.

No matter how devastated they are following the shattering of their heart, they will piece it back together and will do so with greater speed amongst the empathic types. They may suffer considerable pain and they will exhibit the effect more greatly than other empathic types but they also re-charge with a greater speed as a consequence of their devotion to love. Their belief is unshakeable.

No matter how many times they are let down, hurt, cheated on and so forth, they will soon bounce back. They are not naïve but rather have an undimmed and undented belief in the power of love. This capacity for returning to the arena of love so promptly after heartache means that they are ideal candidates for post discard and post escape hoovers as they ‘refuel’ so quickly.

The Geyser Empath is highly sensitive and will be moved to tears regularly be they tears of joy or tears of pain. There will often be a need for a tissue when this person is around. One might be moved to consider them as someone pathetic but that would be an inappropriate label. Yes the Geyser Empath is very easy to manipulate into spurting out fuel and because of their beliefs they will suffer repeated hurts but their strength lies in their unwavering belief in love and how they soon bounce back following their set backs.

They will do Misery 2.0 when they are wounded and hurt, the sobbing, the wailing and the tears will be extensive but it will not last. They do not wallow, but wipe away the tears, reapply the mascara, smooth down the rumpled clothes and climb right back on to their Unicorn of Love and Hope and gallop into the fray once again. The Geyser Empath can exhibit unpredictability of response.

There will always be emotion, which suits our kind, but the extent and intensity of it may at times be so startling that it actually affects the standing of the narcissist with third parties who look on and witness what appears to them to be histrionics and melodrama. Exerting control over this emotional output can at times prove difficult for all save the Greater Narcissist.

The Geyser Empath lacks the serenity of the Magnet Empath and there is no cool deliberation of the Carrier. The Geyser will erupt with emotion with squeals of delight at the good news of a friend who is to be a parent, the triumphant praise for a colleague who has secured a promotion and the devastated collapse following the death of a loved one. The Geyser Empath believes that everyone has the capacity to love and that once they do, all their ills will be solved.

This person appeals to all schools of narcissist because of the high fuel content that is provided and the ease by which it can be provoked. They are easy to seduce but tend to suffer swifter devaluations than other empaths because they shine brighter and thus run the risk of our kind becoming familiar with their fuel in a quicker time so that the potency loses its lustre sooner.

As explained above however, they are prime candidates for hoovers and often the hoover bar is lower for them as a consequence of the narcissist knowing that so much delicious fuel will become available with the added bonus of it being hoover fuel and furthermore because the devotion to love means that the Geyser Empath has a greater susceptibility to giving second, third and fourth chances.

The Geyser Empathic tendency is evident in all of the classes of empathic individuals. This tendency is often seen amongst the Co-Dependent class when this tendency manifests in an extreme form. Its presence will exist in Empaths but tends to be mixed with other empathic tendencies as well so the effect will be slightly diluted but not muted.

With regard to the Super Empath it is unusual to see the Geyser Empathic tendency because of the Super Empath’s inherent resilience to both a sudden devaluation and being hoovered, however it will be seen amongst those who are borderline personality disorder as their displays of emotion and tissue thin emotional skin exhibit when their empathic side is unleashed and the resilience of the Super Empath is demonstrated when they lash out and withdraw.

The Lesser is drawn to those with this tendency because the effort required is so minimal to prompt a response and thus accords with the Lesser narcissist’s lower energy levels and reduced cognitive function for manipulation and machinations.

The Mid-Ranger will also be attracted because of the fuel on offer and the ease by which it can be harvested but the emotional volatility can become wearing to the Mid-Ranger because he will struggle to assert control to achieve some of his aims.

The Greater revels in those with Geyser Empathic tendencies finding the sudden eruptions amusing and playing straight into his portrayal of the individual as unbalanced and unhinged. He or she will take a perverse pleasure in provoking the Geyser into giving more and more fuel.

218 thoughts on “The Geyser Empath

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  2. Duchessbea says:

    Just wondering, within the field of Psychology and psychotherapy and general Therapy, a lot of narcs seem to be attracted to these professions. With Dr.E and Dr. O, what kind of people are they – Empaths or Normals or Narcissists. I know you find talking to them to be a chore and that you have to do it. But do you feel like you get anything out of it.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Yes, my interactions with them cater to the prime aims, naturally.

      1. Duchessbea says:

        Good to know HG.

  3. SParham says:

    I tend to think this is what makes us entertaining. Working with the public is fun for me. My default is happy and playful. I naturally want folks to feel comfortable. I’m seriously not trying to flatter myself but many people have called me sunshine as a nickname over my lifetime. I’ve been called sneaky too because I am so quiet in the background. heehee I scare them when I suddenly appear. Seeing folks daily is even more interesting from immersing myself in Tudor learning. As I get to know clientele over time I think I’ll be able to tell now. 😎

    I’m not a public crier unless I’m mad af. Music has brought on wow tears (love it!). At times overall life duress has got me crying in the shower. It’s like releasing the pressure valve. Losing animal friends over the years had me tore up. I learned not to cry at a wee little age. I could tell tears got me no where from narc parents. Tears mean nothing to my lesser IP. Maybe it’s fuel when he can get me to that point? Shithead 🙄

    1. A Victor says:

      SParham, you have just described my Geyser daughter and me, but me to a lesser degree. She had been called sparkling, effervescent, bubbly, delightful etc throughout her life, I have not been called these, haha. But people have enjoyed my laughter at times. She is also the one who is constantly coming up with fun dares to get everyone to do, and we do, you can’t tell her no! She plays a lot, she laughs a lot, it’s super fun when she’s happy. And she usually it’s. Of course, when she is sad or angry, those are equally as strong and she used to hold ontothem for a while. Now that she’s learned her Geyser traits, she’s been reining those negative emotions in much better, it really helped her to understand herself, that this is normal for her, but she does have options. It has been so fun to see that! She’s also been taking her NC with a narcissist “friend” she has more seriously. I don’t think she understood her own vulnerability until she heard her results, now, she gets it. So good to see. Oh, haha, she can’t be sneaky if her life depended on it! She was the one of mine that always got caught, it used to frustrate her terribly!

      Anyway, have you had an EDC done? If not I hope you can, they are so helpful in understanding ourselves. And thank you for your comment, it was fun to read!

      1. SParham says:

        I have taken the EDC. It took just a few listens to HG to say I had to know more. I’m saviour, geyser and carrier fairly close in balance. It’s so hard to feel anger, I’m forever a peace keeper. There is so much to enjoy but the narcs around me seemed to want to squash any joy. Once they accomplished a super cliff fight response from me they hated that result too. I allowed myself to be controlled in every facet of my life and I couldn’t see wtf I was doing wrong and why I had to be fixed. I don’t need any fixing except for keeping strong boundaries and using logic with my innate joy. I’m about to take the weaponized test to see how I can add more to my power. What I’ve learned is the best therapy I’ve ever had. HG is the only narc I respect. 💐

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Thank you for that endorsement, SParham.

          1. SParham says:

            As long as I’m alive I will refer, apply and share you. You definitely saved my existence. It’s like seeing and feeling with new eyes. Unrivaled is the perfect description of you HG. Your instructions make my newest job so… much easier. I can still be an empath but logic is always on my mind. I catch myself when ET starts to brew. If I reflect on what prompts ET it’s quite fascinating. Attempts to manipulate me are seen now. I can see how my ET created complications that should have never mattered in the past. Each instance was long simmered feeling like I had a broken spirit. Oh hell no now. I’ll take Tudor style sensible and simple any day. 💐

          2. HG Tudor says:

            Jolly good.

        2. A Victor says:

          Hi SParham, I agree about HG, he’s the best, therapist and narcissist! I don’t feel anger often either though I am not as much of a peacekeeper as I am a runner, haha. I avoid conflict rather than try to resolve it. With my ex and kids I faced it, that is what made those relationships so stressful at times. Needful but when my kids grew up, not having to moderate their kid stuff all the time was a huge relief. I’d still be “moderating” with my ex if he was still here, thank God he’s not. I have been working on facing things in an assertive manner here, on narcsite, it is still stressful but learning to do so has actually lowered the stress. Something I need to “fix” in myself I guess. The weaponized test was empowering for me, even though I don’t feel that I was quite ready to take it when I did. But the messaging from it spurred me on, so that was beneficial.

          1. HG Tudor says:

            Thank you A Victor.

          2. SParham says:

            A Victor ~ the detector resulted in a Knight. I love that thought.

            I took the test for a DLS situation with a friend of mine for the past three years. I really trusted this person and they just used me for their prime aims. 6 months ago I would have had ET galore over the intense end to our connection. It’s nice af to not give a shit and not feel guilty for GOSO. My eroded empathy rose back to the surface since the break. It certainly helps me to feel better. 👍

            I still have to share space with my lesser IP. I’ll have to relocate a good distance away to untangle from that connection. He’s the type that would hoover a few hundred miles away with a gun. I’m using strategy for that one. I wish the pandemic would stop, it screws with ideas. In the meantime I do feel free from thinking I’ll ever get respect from him. He doesn’t loom large anymore. My working late shifts helps a lot too. There’s little interaction. No complaints on that one bit! 😁

          3. A Victor says:

            Hey! I’m a knight too! I love it too! I’m glad to heat about your limited interaction with the lesser, it makes life easier.

        3. A Victor says:

          Hi again SParham, re-reading your comment there is so much there! I agree, they never want us to have joy but they are not happy when we don’t either, except as it provides them fuel. It is so much about the control, your comment really brings that out. I have the same mix but in varied amounts, mostly Savior. The Carrier showed up with my ex for a while but not a ton and the Geyser pops up now and then, mostly with my kids/grandkids. I believe it is the Savior element in me that makes me want to know so much, the more I know, the more I can help others. It was dimmed down toward my ex a lot over the years, and finally left altogether that final year. He was on his own then. I have not had a cliff fightback but many supernovas over the years. He enjoyed some of those but not the final one. It went on for quite some time and he finally left. But not before he drained my bank account, the asshole. It was the one thing I didn’t lock him out of during that time, being the fcking dutiful wife, or so I thought. Live and learn, now my mother would do the same but I won’t allow it. Thanks for your comment, it was thought provoking.

  4. Whitney says:

    My God, which cadre of Empath has the most energy?

    1. A Victor says:

      Hi Whitney, wouldn’t you think it has to be either Geyser or Carrier? I think I read it somewhere, I think it is Geyser? I’ll let you know if I come across it again.

      1. Whitney says:

        Thank you A Victor. I’m curious by what HG means by energy.

        HG’s insight into human psychology is the most interesting thing I’ve ever found. I want to know more from his spectacular brain.

        1. A Victor says:

          Hi Whitney, I agree 100 percent, HG’s insight is astounding and fascinating! I apologize for responding when you had asked for his input. Looking forward to more from him also. 🙂

  5. Eliza says:

    Hi Everybody ! Im new here and I need to read through this thread of comments. Did anybody take the two Empath questionnaire analysis and come away feeling bummed out :p ?? I am fortunate that my exposure with Narcs is minimal in my present and primarily in my past relationships and friendships. However, boy am I a doormat waiting for some boots lol…. anybody feel like this ?

    1. Truthseeker6157 says:

      Hi Eliza,

      Welcome to the blog. Your comment made me laugh.

      I wasn’t exactly bummed out by my EDC and TDC results, I was expecting some outcomes, not expecting others. I think a lot of that is down to us at the start not fully understanding all of the various aspects and subtleties within each cadre and school. As you are on the blog for longer and you witness other empaths from different schools and cadres interacting I think this understanding grows. With it an acceptance of yourself which possibly wasn’t there to begin with.

      Don’t be bummed out Eliza haha! In my my mind no one cadre or school is more desirable than any other. They all have strengths in different areas and in interactions with different groups of people. A Codependent school for example might be perceived as being a ‘doormat’ or ‘weaker’ but it is likely that there are also supporting schools within the make up of a Codependent that offset this ‘weaker’ element. Those schools are there for a reason, we are often more than one thing. Even in the situation of 100% Codependent (very rare) this really only poses a problem in terms of interactions with narcissists. As far as interactions with other empaths goes or even normals, the 100% Codependent would have far less issue. A Codependent friend for example would be a joy to be around. Loyal to the end and a constant support.

      These detectors demonstrate your drivers. There a still things such as humour, intelligence, creativity, talents etc to lay over the top. All these aspects form part of you too. Knowing your drivers though is indispensable as far as the link to narcissists is concerned. This self awareness can help significantly in getting you out of ensnarements and it can also help prevent future ones. So don’t be bummed out. Whatever the outcome of your detectors, you are far stronger for taking them, this will become ever more apparent as time goes on.

      Lovely to have a new voice on the blog. You are in good company here x

      1. BC30 says:

        Excellent explanation and description!

        1. Truthseeker6157 says:

          Aww thank you BC30 x

      2. Alexissmith2016 says:

        I was really interested reading your comment re the CD, TS. I think I interpreted the CD completely differently and I definitely hope im wrong and I love how you view them.

        Whilst yes the CD is inherently a nice person when not attached to an N. I wondered whether they are as reliable to their friends when under the spell of an N? I feel they would be so much under the control of an N that they would let their friends down. But im less good at detecting different types of empaths so I may have for this completely wrong. And I may have also misunderstood the CDs.

        1. Truthseeker6157 says:

          Hey Alexis

          I’m by no means an expert on the various cadres. My understanding comes from the articles and as far as CoD also from HG’s book Chained, which I found really interesting. I can recognise CoD elements in the reader comments but I’m sure I miss indicators too.

          I think as far as friendships go when involved with the narc, it’s difficult for any of us to say with certainty if we would be good friends or not. I think the giving nature of the CoD when not involved with a narcissist would make this particular school extremely loyal and supportive. The things you look for in a close friend. Non judgemental also.

          I have CoD as part of my school make up. I’m learning to spot it when it lights up. In Chained, HG describes standing next to a snack machine in the office. The CoD reveals her school by being unwilling to make a choice of snack. She really is unwilling, she sidesteps the decision and sidesteps again. I can relate to that. Not to that extreme though.

          If you ask me where I would like to go for dinner for example, my mental response is to estimate where you actually want to go. That happens first. Then second, I rule out in my mind where I definitely don’t want to go. That’s less CoD. I’ll then put forward two or three restaurants for you to make the selection. Very difficult to pin me down to saying which one restaurant I really want to go to. I struggle to take your wants out of the equation and I struggle to place my wants first. It’s partly because I don’t see the choice of restaurant as an important decision either but that’s still the CoD lighting up in me. It’s offset by my lead school but the process still takes place in my mind. I’m far better with big life decisions, there my CoD takes a back seat.

          So as a friend, I’m very easy going. I prefer to exercise the power of veto. When I say no to something, something I really don’t want to do, then I can’t be manipulated or coerced into it. No is no. I won’t shift position on it, I’d shoot myself in the foot first! So the CoD is offset for me by my stronger school but I understand the selfless element that comes with the CoD and can estimate without interference from a narc, a full CoD is lovely. Way nicer than me!

          This is probably the one area where I think perhaps HG wears rose coloured Raybans. I think he sees some of us as gentler, kinder, softer than we are. Yes he admits we make mistakes but overall I think there’s possibly a degree of over estimation on the niceness scale. Either that or I’m an outlier! Haha. Stick me in the corner, toss me a ready meal from time to time, I’ll be all good!

          I do see the CoD in a very positive light. I also admire the Geyser cadre immensely. That’s because I have no Geyser cadre in me at all. Typical woman, I always wanted curly hair and a rocking horse, never got those either! I only see the CoD school as problematic where narcs are involved, but no school comes out of it entirely unscathed when a narc shuffles on to the scene. Not consistently unscathed at least. Different narcs, different outcomes, similar problems.


          1. Alexissmith2016 says:

            Hmmmm that’s really interesting TS and very helpful indeed. My husband who has a lot of carrier traits perhaps then has a lot of CD too. He struggles to make decisions well about certain things but not all. He’ll really struggle with choices when we’re in a shop and to a painful level Hahahah in the end I tel him I’ll either choose for him or that I’ll go to the till and if he’s not there by the time I’m paying he’s not getting anything Hahahah fuck I’m so mean. But I do it in a lighthearted way ans only after he’s spent much time deliberating already. I have read chained but I could probably do with a refresher of all of HGs books to be honest. My memory is so bad. I need to keep reminding myself of certain things.

            Although I’m not CD I would still give consideration to where others prefer to eat. If I get my way it’s always Indian hahha but I have one friend who hates spicy food and therefore I would not go to an Indian with them, not ever. I wouldn’t want someone to be miserable so I can have what I want. Well unless they’re an N that is, then it’s fair game lol.

            You’re right, no school comes out unscathed.

            You’ve given me a great deal of insight TS. Thank you very much.

          2. Truthseeker6157 says:


            So next time we go out I’ll choose Indian, the pressure is off!

            Next time you are out shopping and your husband is choosing something, try giving him two options. “I really like these two, which one do you want to get?” That way he already knows you like both so can choose which of the two he really prefers. See what happens. (Don’t choose two naff ones just to see if he’ll buy one either!! Haha)

            Same here, I need to go back and re read some of the books. I know I pull something different out of the articles each time I read them. I loved Chained, Exorcism and Confessions of a Narcissist. I think those would be my top three. Just don’t ask me to choose one. Obviously.


          3. Leigh says:

            Thank you for this explanation, TS. I often wonder if I answered the empath detector incorrectly because I don’t have any CoD. I think Chained will be next on my list to read. With your explanation, I can see why I don’t fit into CoD. For the most part, I’m the decision maker in my household & with my mother. Even though they are both narcissists, they are victim narcissists and need me to take care of them so they allow me to be in charge. “They allow me to be in charge”, saying that made me cringe. I’m also selfish. I won’t give up something for someone else just for the sake of it. There better be a really good reason and even then I might be pissed off because I had to give it up. You see, I’m not nice either, lol.

            Alexis, I agree with you that I wouldn’t force someone who doesn’t like a certain food to go to that kind of restaurant. On the flip side of that though, if I’m always going to places you like & I don’t like them, then at some point I want you to make that sacrifice for me too. You made me chuckle about your hubby. I have very little patience and I would definitely do the same thing, lol.

            P.S. TS, there’s nothing special about curly hair. Its a pain in the booty, lol. I love my curls but it is super high maintenance.

          4. Truthseeker6157 says:


            I’m currently going through the old threads still in my inbox and am finding comments all over the place that I hadn’t seen, so sorry I missed yours here.

            Chained is a must read, I love it, not just because CoD is one of my schools, I just love the book and the fullness of the explanation.

            I see your approach as being healthy, not, not nice. I can see also that the influence of being with victim narcissists would instil a decision taking element too. If you didn’t do it, it didn’t get done. I think that’s a carrier trait also.

            Small decisions I’m horrendous. Film choice, restaurant, what to have for dinner haha! Awful. That said I often genuinely don’t mind what we do, where we go, what we have to eat etc. Similarly I am a ‘choose your battles’ person. Laid back, until I’m not!

            You have curls! How lovely! I’m very envious, and, I am sure they are beautiful!


          5. Leigh says:

            Hi TS, no need to apologize for missing my comment. WordPress has been a pain in the booty lately. I’m not getting email notifications either. I’m not sure what’s going on. I still haven’t read Chained. I’ve been catching up with videos. I can’t keep up, lol.

            My whole make up is so very bizarre. I’m either extremely decisive and don’t budge (black and white thinking) or I can’t make a decision and overthink (big ball of grey thinking). It really can make me insane. When its that big ball of gray and I can’t make a decision, I withdraw until I’m forced to make a decision. My actions feel very similar to the narcissist. Maybe its because I’ve been around them my whole life that I take similar actions as them. I don’t know 🤷‍♂️

      3. Eliza- theSaintlyIronLady says:

        Hi TS, AV, MP, & Leigh, I missed this 🙁 Thanks for your welcome <3 I never get notifications so I didnt think anybody ever saw this post. If its ok to say ? I am a majority Standard with 3 main almost equal Cadres of Carrier,Geyser and Saviour. I felt foolish if that makes any sense ? I always thought of myself as sort of a “taking care of business “ kind of person but now I feel like sort of a sucker with immaturity (geyser) issues 😂 ….oh well I think I was hoping for the “Mother Theresa/Margaret Thatcher” Cadre 😂

        1. A Victor says:

          Eliza-TSIL, no problem! I have found a few comments months after people made them, it happens sometimes. You’re the third person with similar levels of those cadres. I have the same three also but mine are not equal, with majority Savior and insignificant minority Geyser and Carrier in between. I think your Carrier is your ‘get er done’ element, and Savior your Mother Teresa. And your Geyser makes things fun! 🙂

        2. Leigh says:

          Hi Eliza, I’m a perfect triple hybrid Carrier, Savior and Geyser (33% each). I say I save, then carry and then erupt. Lol! We are probably very similar.

          WordPress has been a pain lately and hasn’t been sending notifications. You almost have to scour through all the posts.

          As for Margaret Thatcher, you don’t want to be the same school or Cadre as her. She’s an Upper Greater Narcissist. I believe her cadre is Cerebral.

          1. A Victor says:

            Should we, are we allowed, to break the news on Mother Teresa? 😬

          2. Leigh says:

            AV, Is there breaking news about Mother Theresa? I didn’t know about her. Although at this point, nothing would shock me. Go ahead and share and see what happens.

          3. Truthseeker6157 says:


            There’s breaking news on Mother Theresa? Is she back?!


          4. A Victor says:

            Hahaha, that would be news! No, I meant her narc-y/non-narc-y status. Thanks for the giggle!

        3. Truthseeker6157 says:


          This tickled me. You’d be rubbish as Margaret Thatcher. Way too funny. Sorry !


    2. A Victor says:

      Just saw your question Eliza,
      I felt very upbeat after my results came back. I did it very early on and as such didn’t have any expectations because I had no real understanding about the options. I have since learned about the various aspects, I am very glad I did it that way. It has been hugely helpful with establishing my sense of self, a specific struggle I’ve had, as well as understanding better about myself generally. And I think even if you’re disappointed, as you learn more you may feel better. All of them have some good qualities, none of them are bad and all of them can improve, be made a stronger, more aware version.

      1. BC30 says:

        I agree, each has its special qualities. Your Savior is tempered by your Super just as my Geyser is tempered by my Super; they can be dimmed.

        1. A Victor says:

          Yes, and those nuances are part of what makes us each unique in the presentation of our schools and cadres. Do you think the dimming is due to the Super aspect? I would have thought that would make them stronger. Or, I suppose it could go either way depending on what’s needed at the time.

          1. BC30 says:

            Yes, read about Super empath, not the Supernova, just regular Super traits.

          2. A Victor says:

            Thank you, I will do so again with this in mind.

    3. Leigh says:

      Hi Eliza, welcome to the blog. I was on the blog for about 18 months when I finally decided to take the Empath & Trait detectors. So many people in my life were narcissists or toxic and I needed to make sure I wasn’t the problem. I honestly believed it was me who was the narcissist and that it was me causing all the problems. Have you heard the saying, “If everyone around you has the problem, maybe you’re the problem”? That was my mindset and I needed to clear that up. Even after I got the results and Mr. Tudor confirmed I was an empath, I thought, I must have answered the questions wrong, this isn’t right, lol. Mr. Tudor is so intuitive. He shows us things about ourselves that we may never have seen otherwise. We are all beyond grateful to him. Don’t worry, eventually you won’t feel so bummed and you will learn to embrace those qualities. I LOVE the Geyser in me. Its definitely my favorite.

      Good luck to you on your journey.

    4. MP says:

      Hello Eliza, I wasn’t happy to be a majority Geyser. I can see though how my traits caused me to have the kind of dynamic that I had with my familial narcs. I just try to not look at it as a life sentence that defines me as a person. I look at it as something that highlights some traits I have that makes me susceptible to narcissists’ manipulations or for them to go after me for fuel. It doesn’t mean that I can’t control my emotions all the time or that I am not capable of logical thinking because I’m always too emotional. I have cut off people in my life that I never allowed to hoover me as well and I’m pretty good at that actually. But it does show my weak areas which I need to cover or protect so I don’t get hurt and I have been working on it and so far I have made improvements. So as long as I don’t see it as a life sentence and I have a mindset of using it to see my areas for improvement it doesn’t make me feel bummed.

  6. BC30 says:

    There was talk somewhere about possible new cadre/school merch, yes?

    I’d wear Geyser merch with pride. Being everything except Co-D, I could sport an entire wardrobe.

    My 🐥 hoodie should be here tomorrow!

    1. BC30 says:

      My hoodie arrived, and I love it. It’s super soft. I have been wearing it to the office when I can.

      1. A Victor says:

        I am happy for you. My slouchy tee is super soft too, super comfy. I’ve been considering getting one for every day of the week and only wearing them. I have 7 or 8 minion tee shirts, from back when Despicable Me came out, I fell in love with those things, and yes, they are getting a bit ratty now, haha, so time for some new tees!

    2. SParham says:

      So that’s why I can get so animated once I know someone? Friends are shocked when I “let lose”

  7. Ciara says:

    This don’t sound like me 😄

  8. mollyb5 says:

    HG …I’m sorry but this explanation of a geyser doesn’t sound like an empath …sounds like a young teenage girl ? Aren’t all empaths like this when we were young and naive ?

    1. Leigh says:

      Molly’s, Ha! Your comment made me laugh. I often feel like a teenage girl who can’t control her outbursts!

      1. BC30 says:

        Dude, seriously. We were at an office lunch today and I was referred to as “spicy” 😅 It’s true, I am fiery, but there’s not a fucking doubt that I will die fighting for you. My assistant’s know it and my boss knows it.

      2. Melmel says:

        Me too! I actually described myself as such to one of the labor relations officers helping me with my workplace issues… that it may seem like I am behaving like an angry teenager who has just gone into my room and slammed the door so hard that all the glasses rattled in the cupboard…

        The point I was trying to make to her was that just because my instinct when I am backed into a corner is to lash out with an intense burst of emotion and withdraw, it doesn’t make what I am saying any less true. And would anyone really pay attention if I didn’t react that way with the Narcissist running the smear campaign about how crazy and unreasonable I am? No.

        1. Leigh says:

          Melmel, I’m the same way, if I’m backed in the corner, I’m going to come out kicking and screaming. That could bite me in the ass though. Sometimes I look like a crazed lunatic. And the truth is, at that particular moment, I am a crazed lunatic. Its always me who is the one overreacting. Its irritating as hell because then I’m not being taken seriously.

          I hope the labor relations officers are understanding and realize that your outburst is because you are tired of the abusive treatment.

          None of us deserve this.

          1. Melmel says:

            Leigh you are so right! In that moment I am a lunatic!

            I had this exact scenario this weekend. It was so embarrassing. I had to explain to my son who had just had a major nuclear meltdown that the way I acted was not justified by the fact that I was sticking up for him. He was mortified too.

            I logged on today to share with everyone that I got great news regarding my workplace situation today! I was literally at my wits end worrying about Everything and questioning all of my decisions and actions… and then it was all validated in one fell swoop. And there’s going to be further investigation into what they are still trying to do to me as I try to get as much distance as I can to decrease my Emotional Thinking. I’m hopeful that an Escape is imminent!

            The Geyser in me couldn’t keep it in, so I had to share.

            Thank you everyone for all your support these last several months. And for giving me perspective into myself to identify where the chinks in the armour are. And of course all thanks be to HG Tudor who I do think has helped save my life… or at least my family (including my husband). And if my children have a chance at not bearing the wounds of my childhood and my mother’s, then I have to believe that deed will not go unnoticed by the Universe, or whatever Force for Good exists for us humans.

          2. Leigh says:

            Melmel, WordPress hasn’t ben working lately and I just saw this message. I’m so glad things are starting to work out for you at work.

            I always feel bad when I gave one of those moments in front of my children. If he’s tough like his momma, he will be ok and he will eventually understand.

            Your eternal optimism radiates. Thank you. Sometimes I need to be reminded that there is a Force for Good in the Universe.

        2. BC30 says:

          “My instinct when I am backed into a corner is to lash out with an intense burst of emotion and withdraw” I do this too. I cannot control it.

          1. A Victor says:

            I didn’t do this even when I was a teenage girl. Lol! What does that mean??

          2. Asp Emp says:

            BC30, I’ve done this too. I think I commented on this in the article ‘Prey’. Now that I am more aware of myself, I think I will do this a lot less that I ever did, or probably would have no reason to do so.

          3. Leigh says:

            BC30, often times I can’t control my outbursts either. Its almost an instinctual response. Thats the best way I can describe it.

    2. Alexissmith2016 says:

      I can absolutely see why you would think this molly. I do know a few including some males who are definitely empaths who can be completely governed by their emotions and have outbursts. One now in his 80s.

      1. mollyb5 says:

        I could see where a drama queen could be confused with actually being empathetic . When their intention is attention from others . My sisters are overly reactive in certain conversations …overly amused , overly loud , overly pretend interested , overly laugh and many times it’s to impress a guy? Or a new person has stepped into the conversation.

        1. TheVimtoSlut says:


          Agreed and indeed there might well be a very significant mirror happening between victim narcs aping a true geyser.

          What’s the betting that a MMRN Type B victim would search this out the most? resonates.

      2. Leigh says:

        Alexis, this made me chuckle. Me at 80 years old still having outbursts! That’s going to be fun for me but not so much for the people around me. Although they may say, “That’s just granny being granny, lol!”

        1. alexissmith2016 says:

          Hahahah Mad granny Leigh, will this be drug and alcohol fuelled as well? Can I come too please

          1. Leigh says:

            Sure! The more the merrier. We can sneak in drugs & alcohol into the nursing home and cause a raucous! LOL!

        2. JB says:

          Leigh, it does happen! 😂 I think my mother in law was a geyser. She fits the description really well and she had plenty of outbursts in her older years too. All makes sense now!

      3. mollyb5 says:

        I have outbursts of emotion with the narc . But in a group of people I keep calm and never have an outburst. My children come to me also when they are feeling emotional . We try to show maturity when others are around , such as people who would judge us harshly.

        1. MP says:


          I’m a Geyser and I’m like you in what you have described. I think what makes me Geyser though is sometimes I tear up easily because an emotion hits me. I was having a conversation with a close friend who lost her mom and we were talking about the signs of after life and as I was in the middle of what I was saying an emotion about what she was going through all of a sudden hit me and embarrassingly made my eyes start to tear up but thankfully I was able to stop it and act as natural as I can. Some movies make me cry really fast too. Some situations get a rise out of me online but in real life I am not as reactive. I also don’t think that people are not capable of improving the way they deal with things including emotions.

          In terms of being expressive and dramatic or histrionic, my Middle MR half sister looked more like a Geyser than me and to some people she even appeared much more empathic than me because she actively worked on impressing people. Although my normal husband immediately saw that she was full of herself.

      4. A Victor says:

        Really? Wow. I wouldn’t’ve expected that.

    3. Jasmin says:

      AV! I think it means that your geyser is insignificant minority. I didn’t act like a teenager when I was one either. I act more lika a woman who has passed menopause!😅

      1. A Victor says:

        Lol, Jasmin, you are correct! I act more like a teenager now, post-menopause, than I did when I actually was one. But still not the emotional outbursts, except as is fitting for my small amount of Geyser, crying quietly for a while or having a semi-quiet fit of giggles now and then. It is extremely rare for me to get angry, let alone show it outwardly. Fear will show sometimes also, and a tiny bit of excitement now and then. But not a lot outwardly. My ex could still see it though, and with him was where the anger and frustration showed in the beginning.

        Perceptive of you to catch that! I hope to be able to identify such things at some point!

        1. Jasmin says:

          Just like you it’s extremely rare for me to be angry, but it does happen! I also cry quietly, not often in front of people as I will look to either withdraw or try to holding back the tears.
          My problem is with feelings of excitement, I totally losing control.. It might sound rare but when it happens I’m hungry aswell.🙈😅

          1. A Victor says:

            That made me giggle, you’re hungry as well! I don’t change but I have one daughter who gets very “hangry”-lol! We always feed her asap when we see it and she calms right down!! 🙂

          2. Jasmin says:

            I’ve been thinking these days if hunger could possibly be an external stresser?
            Hangry! 😅 Yes, definitely and just like your daughter I calm down when I eat something. 🤷‍♀️

    4. TheVimtoSlut says:


      No. The young Need to be considered in a different frame of perspective.

      Adult geysers do present as childlike. It would be a mistake to think they are children.

      1. Asp Emp says:

        TVS, I liked your comment. It is about understanding the different perspectives of people within society as a whole.

      2. A Victor says:

        TVS, “Adult geysers do present as childlike. It would be a mistake to think they are children.” This is perfect, thank you. Even true of us with just a bit of Geyser.

  9. leelasfuelstinks says:

    The funniest are Carriers with significant Geyser minority traits, aren´t they?

    GET THE PARTY STARTED! 😂😁😁😂😂🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳🤪🤪🤪🤪🤣🤣🤣🤣

    1. A Victor says:

      Haha, I would throw in a majority of Savior!

      1. Eternity says:

        I am in 0% Geyser in me.

        1. BC30 says:

          Duly noted!

          1. Eternity says:

            BC30 , is that you too?

          2. BC30 says:

            I am all cadres, but far and away majority Geyser.

          3. Eternity says:

            Interesting. Thank you for sharing!

      2. BC30 says:


        The fact that he readily agreed probably indicates he is an empath. LOL

    2. Eternity says:

      Party yay! I am in ! Drinks on me !

      1. A Victor says:

        I think empaths in general are pretty fun!!

        1. Eternity says:

          We are the life of the party and we are fun ! No Narcs invited!

          1. A Victor says:

            Eternity, I agree! 🎉😂

          2. Asp Emp says:

            Eternity, can we still wear our ‘black stripes’ ? 😉

          3. Eternity says:

            Hahaha hee hee , do you mean the black stripes they wear in jail?

          4. Asp Emp says:

            Eternity, no. I was referring to us emapths and our narcissistic streaks! Anyway, from the sound of things, we’d all end up ‘Dirty Empaths’ at such a party!! 😉

          5. Eternity says:

            Ha ha oh yes for sure !
            We will end up dirty at such a party. Hey as HG says Empaths are not saints, so there you go!

          6. Asp Emp says:

            Eternity….. “We will end up dirty at such a party”…. oh, yes?… what? I am a good girl! I always have been…… (lashings galore, for lying!) Laughing

          7. Eternity says:

            Asp Emp,
            I am also a good girl pretty much all my life.
            Time for a change ha ha. You only live once,might as well make the best of it.

        2. leelasfuelstinks says:

          EMPATHS ROCK! 😉

          1. Eternity says:

            Yup Agreed Leila we are!
            R – Rebellious
            O- Optimistic
            C- Caring
            K- Kind

          2. leelasfuelstinks says:

            Love that! ❤

    3. A Victor says:

      Leela, when I first read your comment I thought it was the funnest are Carrier, I would not claim to be the funniest, you get that for sure!! But, I do like to (read live for) have fun!! 🙂

      1. leelasfuelstinks says:

        Don´t remember exactly: Do you have Geyser traits? (If we aren´t allow to say that, I think H.G. will delete the comments anyway).

        1. Asp Emp says:

          LFS, “Geyser traits”, well in my opinion, it’s not offensive 😉

          1. leelasfuelstinks says:

            No, but once we had a discussion whether we are allowed to talk about our EDC and TDC results or not. I think H.G. said, we are allowed. Not so sure, but if not, he won´t let the comments through anyway, I guess. 😊

          2. Asp Emp says:

            LFS, if I recall correctly – HG would prefer us to have his permission before we share our EDC / TDC (I suppose this includes audio / email consults)? If the communication is done via email then HG would be able to advise accordingly. As I had an audio consult once and I read the procedures, which I understood & respected, especially in relation to confidentiality – basically it is an ‘agreement’ between someone who has a EDC / TDC / consult and HG. It’s more about protection of everyone concerned, including the legalities behind it all. Maybe that is why some comments are not considered to ‘pass’ the moderation stage?

          3. leelasfuelstinks says:

            Yes, we all forgot about that once and discussed our results 🤦‍♀️ but H.G. then said, it´s okay because we were a good advertisement for the detectors and consultations. So, I don´t worry too much, if it´s not okay, H.G. will just delete and not let the comment pass through. ☺

          4. Asp Emp says:

            LFS, “we were a good advertisement” indeed. Thank you for responding 🙂

          5. BC30 says:

            That’s what I said 🤠

          6. A Victor says:

            Asp Emp and Leela, I have been trying to respect this by using behaviors to describe myself instead of the actual cadre. I am not always successful and I have not asked for specific permission but just keep trying to pull back from it. I would prefer not to be granted permission to overstep a stated agreement but instead honor it by the chosen wording. If people know about the cadres, and schools, they will be able to understand, if not, they can get be encouraged to learn more through this, I think. Anyway, that’s been my goal, though not perfected yet. And, it already is all out there if someone cared to find it, for a bunch of us anyway.

            I have wondered about the confidentiality with regard to the merch. If I take my Savior mug out in public, am I breaching that agreement, for example? Not that that will happen, but a tee or water bottle, would be out probably. So, that has been a question I have had.

          7. Asp Emp says:

            AV, no, I honestly think when it comes to the products (merch), it is completely different altogether. I’d even display the stickers in my car (not blocking the views as per legal requirement), I’d wear the clothing in public and use the mugs, bottles etc in public too…… and hang the wall art prints in my house too. Yeah, I’d wear his merch anywhere!

          8. A Victor says:

            As will I! I already have some hanging in my house. Love it!

          9. BC30 says:

            I made the stickers into magnets!

          10. Asp Emp says:

            Hello BC30! Oh, well done. That’s a good way to use the stickers in alternative & creative way 🙂

          11. A Victor says:

            I have framed a couple of the stickers! They are now wall art! I love them!

          12. BC30 says:

            Ah, this is also a great idea.

          13. BC30 says:

            We are…sort of. We have to be careful not to share proprietary information. If anything, I would hope sharing our results encourages others to do the detectors.

          14. leelasfuelstinks says:

            Exactly this. That´s all we did. We didn´t share any details, just school and cadre and talked about our behaviors and compared them. It is fascinating how our schools and cadres show in everyday life.

          15. A Victor says:

            Leela, isn’t that fascinating! I am building so much of my sense of self from just that, it’s what comes out from me because it’s what, who, I am! It’s so cool!

          16. leelasfuelstinks says:

            The same, sister! ✌

        2. A Victor says:

          An insignificant minority but it comes out, probably here more than many other places. It will come out around my kids too or very rarely around a few good friends, in flashes only though. But I need a high comfort level and so times when it shows unexpectedly it can be extremely embarrassing for me. I think it was not looked well upon when I was a child. But on another hand, my dad expected to be entertained, that was a female’s role in his mind, so I became an entertainer, starting and keeping conversation going, making people laugh etc, in certain situations, which was completely exhausting because it wasn’t natural, like it is with my kids. With them I’m not entertaining but instead having fun with them in a more relaxed manner than I allow with others. But I think I drew from the bit of Geyser for the entertainment aspect and it got overworked which left me exhausted, sometimes for days. I realized that I didn’t owe anybody any entertainment a few years ago and took that burden off myself, not easy but I was successful.

          1. leelasfuelstinks says:

            Well, I have more Geyser in me. 😉 Significant minority element. It shows pretty often but the Carrier-element can hold it back well, when it´s inappropriate to go Geyser. 😊

          2. A Victor says:

            I think my schools and other cadres hold mine back sometimes also, though it doesn’t pop up that often. Even when I’m around my kids and relaxed, it often doesn’t make any showing. We just have a good time. So when it slips out at unexpected times, that’s why it’s so embarrassing. But, I am working on some things with regard to it, being more aware of when that might happen, understanding that I don’t always need to be embarrassed by it, learning to drill down with logic before my emotions take over etc, so hopefully I will have a better handle on it soon. It has certainly caused me some stress in my life, much of which has likely been unnecessary. 🙂

          3. leelasfuelstinks says:

            Same with my Savoir traits. 🙁 Unfortunately. Doesn´t show up often 🙁

          4. A Victor says:

            Don’t be sad Leela! The traits you have that do show up are a blessing to us! And I’m sure to others off the blog as well! 🙂

          5. leelasfuelstinks says:

            Oh, thank you very much! 🥰❤

          6. BC30 says:

            🤣 I just thought to myself that this morning’s outburst during our team meeting may not have been an opportune time to erupt. Hahaha well, for some reason they put up with my ass! I may be yelling and cursing like a drunk pirate 🏴‍☠️ but I love you 😘

          7. leelasfuelstinks says:

            I use to yell and curse when something goes really very bad or when I get abused by a narc. Then I fight back and it can happen that I lash out. Or when something reminds me of childhood traumas and “The Creature” comes out. I don´t know about other Empaths, but I personally indeed got a “Creature” in me, it´s just more developed and “older” and not imprisoned but somehow attached to the rest of my personality.

    4. Leigh says:

      Leela, you always crack me up. I think you’re a hoot. I’m confused though. I’m not funny at all. Unless you are saying that carriers are funny because we carry until we burst and then we carry some more and then burst again and then carry some more.

      #facts. I guess we are funny!

      1. leelasfuelstinks says:

        #Carriersforlife #WeCarryyourburden #Wecarryevenyourshit 😉 😀

    5. BC30 says:

      Haha now I’ve got Black-eyed Peas stuck in my head. 🎼🎧🎤

  10. Whitney says:

    My God, HG. You think I’m a Geyser type but you’re wrong. I’m Contagion, that’s why I get emotional. Other people’s struggles. I don’t think about my own emotions or care about them.

    1. BC30 says:

      Whitney, I thought you were a near complete and total hybrid, like me?

      1. Whitney says:

        Hi BC30, sorry for not responding, I don’t know how to keep track of my comments.

        Could you please tell me your mix again, BC30? 😃

        I was mostly Geyser. Then equal Carrier, Magnet, and Saviour for the rest

        Most Codependent (that’s wrong), then Contagion, then Super, then Standard

        I’m fascinated by the test HG. I have ideas for improving it and making new tests.

        1. Asp Emp says:

          Hi Whitney, you can always use the ‘conversations’ section within WP to check in there?

          Interesting to read you say “most Codependent” being wrong?

        2. Asp Emp says:

          Hi Whitney, you can use ‘conversations’ section in WP to check and catch comments you may have missed.

          I believe that HG uses an excellent system for measuring the traits on narcissism and empathy (including the schools / cadres). I came across an article on his KTN site and I can see from this to gauge an idea of why his systems work.

        3. BC30 says:

          I’m not sure if I responded already. I’m a confetti empath. 🥳
          Standard > Super > Contagion
          Geyser – strong minority
          Magnet – significant minority
          Savior – significant minority
          Carrier – insignificant minority
          Martyr – insignificant minority

  11. A Victor says:

    @Asp Emp, I wonder if the void I feel relates to this cadre? It could also be where the joy comes from. Do you have any thoughts?

    1. Asp Emp says:

      AV, when I was referring to my own ‘darkness’, I do not base it on my school or cadre of empath – it was my own experience of major loss as a child with additional narcissistic influences from mother. In my opinion, ‘joy’ and the ‘void’ are not from the same ‘place’ within any individual.

      I would suggest that all the emotions / thoughts we have within ourselves are pieces of a jigsaw where the ‘puzzle’ as a whole is never fully complete. Maybe it is that the ‘missing’ piece(s) are what everyone is seeking – whether it is done consciously or instinctively (where it is not conscious).

      If I use this ‘concept’ and apply it to say, an uneducated empath (or started on the journey of rediscovery) – some of the pieces of a jigsaw are connected yet the remainder of the jigsaw pieces are not connected – piled up in a ‘mess’. The more educated the empath, the more the pieces of the jigsaw are connected in the correct places = Logical & Emotional Thinking syncs to become more balanced.

      Having said that, there are people who have jigsaw pieces that will always be impossible to fit within the jigsaw of an individual, simply because of their own brain wiring (neurological pattern) so their thought patterns will differ from from those who do not carry the neurological DNA. These individuals will find their journey of learning about narcissism takes longer than others.

      Maybe you can refer back to your EDC / TDC notes that HG did for you? I suppose these notes will also aid you when you get stuck at some point? I’ve not had my EDC / TDC done yet so I am not really able to answer your question better. Maybe you can add this to your questions when you next have a consult for further clarity?

      1. A Victor says:

        Hi Asp Emp,
        I didn’t explain well, the joy could be from my Geyser. Also, only because of the emotional aspect, possibly the void, ie, lack of contentedness, that I sometimes experience, and maybe only because Geysers are high energy. I typically notice it when I’m feeling extra high energy and there is nothing going on. I will always find something to do, that’s not an issue, it’s just at those times when I feel my single state the most acutely and wish I had someone to do something with. At those times I want a romantic someone, not a child, grandchild etc. And, it’s at those times that I find myself annoyed at couples. I feel very cheated in this regard, I didn’t get married to be single at this point, with the child rearing done and now time for some fun. It even annoys me that narcissists get to have a special person, that they don’t even care about, but I don’t. I think this is where my void stems from, everything I wrote here. Thankfully it is not constant and I do know ways to alleviate it even if I can’t completely get rid of it.

        I really like your puzzle analogy, i have talked of “another piece of the puzzle fell into place” moments, what you said is like that for me. It’s awesome when it happens.

        Yes to your last paragraph. And I hope you can get those done soon, they are so helpful.

        Thank you!

        1. Asp Emp says:

          AV, I’d been thinking (this came to me last night but I was all cosy in my Queen-sized bed) – so I am responding now…… since you have been around narcissists all your life and effectively under the influence of their narcissism, I’d wondered if your “void” as you call it – is your ‘true self’ that you have not been able to get to know because of all the life-time narcissist ‘conditioning’, if you will.

          ** your ‘true self = your identity as an individual, not the one you became ‘conditioned’ to be (your ET & LT ‘programmed’ by your upbringing & relationships with narcissists)**

          This is where I differ from your experiences – despite myself being influenced by narcissists all my life – I did in fact have a lot of time to myself, ie I never married / lived with anyone after I left home (had that Lesser living with me for 3 months – far too long !!!! and the fkg sock / talc was a final straw – I made him sleep in the spare room for the last month he was at my house and I had stopped having sex with him a couple weeks before that – I am laughing because I actually had ‘power’ without being consciously aware of having such ‘power’ – I suppose my earlier memories of what he ‘did’ to me assisted in my ‘disassociating’ from him, at this point I did not ‘love’ him yet was under his narcissist influence, I no longer enjoyed sex with him either). I would spend long weekends (not many) staying with my friends in south of UK, even went abroad with a couple of them (have to admit that I LOVED the freedom to be ‘me’ during this holiday).

          Even though my ‘true self’, I did not fully understand or really know who / what I was until I started my learning on KTN. It is actually very liberating to be at this stage in my life, so effectively why I say my life ‘slate’ is clean. A new start, not 100% completely ‘new’ – as the ‘residue’, the ‘dregs’ of my past is part of me but much, much smaller than it was. In my view, I am ready for the ‘next chapter’, actually, a ‘new book’ of my life – despite my much reduced ‘darkness’ within me being the ‘link’ between the old and the new.

          You saying “wish I had someone to do something with. At those times I want a romantic someone……And, it’s at those times that I find myself annoyed at couples. I feel very cheated in this regard, I didn’t get married to be single at this point……..” – I think, it’s the many years of being married that has you saying that. At present, that is the ET ‘conning’ you. Guess what? I used to have a similar ‘mind-set’ (ET response / kicking in) after I was ‘thrown onto the scrapheap’ and the overwhelming sense of unworthiness – it can really be ‘soul destroying’……. (right at this minute, my ET crept up – at the memory of feeling so shit – second best to sister, narcissist’s IPPS, etc)…… my ET ‘moment’ passed simply because I immediately said to myself, I am better than I was ‘conditioned’ or my ET led me to believe I was (am) less worthy…… it goes to show that even after a life-time of narcissist influence, the brain ‘re-processing’ can happen and can work (effectively knocking the ET ‘influence’ on it’s head) – providing you use the resources available and teach yourself to ‘stop and think logically’.

          You saying “It even annoys me that narcissists get to have a special person, that they don’t even care about, but I don’t” – remember, always remember, a narcissist does not have a ‘special person’ in the sense of the words – narcissists do not have emotional empathy….. let go of your ‘annoyance’ on this one aspect alone 🙂

          The moments of ‘realisation’ when the pieces of the jigsaw start to connect in a way that works for you is similar to a moment where you should feel a sense of satisfaction (achievement) and have a ‘provocation’ response to the narcissists in your life.

          RE: me having EDC / TDC – yes, I am curious to exactly what I am yet I have my ‘suspicions’ (no guesses) to what I am (giggling).

          Apologies for the long comment, HG, thank you for moderating xx

          1. A Victor says:

            Asp Emp, I’ve been under the influence and now it’s time to sober up! Haha, and face facts! And logic!! And what’s odd is that I test as INTP, you know about that right? I think we talked about it once. Anyway, I always thought I was quite analytical, maybe still am but was just using the wrong set of facts. Although…facts are facts…? Anyway, now I’m working on getting to reality using logic, to keep my ET under control. Good thoughts about getting to know my true self! I have been working on discovering my sense of self since being here, so I think you are correct except I don’t think it is my void. Still not positive about that piece. But I will add it to the equation, it may play a role.

            “…3 months – far too long !!!! and the fkg sock / talc was a final straw…” – Laughing!! Hysterically!! I hadn’t realized that actually happened!! And all that sock talk has been from experience?! I’m so sorry!! But, don’t be mad, I’m still laughing…

            It sounds like you have already successfully rewired your mind, your thinking. I am so happy for you and really appreciate you sharing this, it gives me hope!

            I can’t let go of the annoyance that even the narc gets a person but I don’t, not ready to, it’s not fair. I’ll let you know if that changes.

            I don’t want to have a provocation response toward the narcs, I just want to not be around them. Is there another word you can explain that with or did you mean I would intentionally wish to irritate them?? Laughing a little here…thinking “Haw Haw”…

            Why would your “suspicions” re you EDC/TDC make you giggle?? I’m very curious now…

            Yes, thank you always HG, for moderating, very much!

          2. Leigh says:

            I must apologize first because I haven’t been myself lately so I really haven’t been paying attention to some of the blog comments. I’m trying to catch up now. I seemed to have missed your initial comment, AV. What does the void feel like? Does it feel like your missing something?

          3. A Victor says:

            Hi Leigh, you’ve been preoccupied, very understandable. I hope things are improving for you. It is a horrible thing to go through, the withdrawal, if that’s what you would call it. That’s what it felt like to me when I escaped last Sept.

            Anyway, it feels like those moments when you want to share something, a thought, an experience, a moment etc with another person who would care that you’re sharing it. When I was married, because my ex, when he was around, was interactive with me, if I was with him, I could at least pretend that I had this. I was often horribly lonely in my marriage at times, he was not supportive and he was often literally gone. But pleasant when around unless he needed some negative fuel, in which case, as I have figured out, he would provoke some. But anyway, because I was able to pretend it was all fine, I did not feel this void in this way. The horrible loneliness was worse however, so having another narc is not the answer. On many other levels as well, as we’re learning.

            I have been building some friendships with other single people. Many of them feel the same at times so I’m trying to grasp how they deal with it, that might be helpful, though not so much yet. Also, bringing my ET under better control is likely going to be helpful and that is coming along. I had a bit of a setback the last couple weeks due to a couple of different events but I’m getting back on track now. Any thoughts you might have would be most welcome and I’m really glad you are doing better.

          4. Leigh says:

            AV, So it doesn’t necessarily seem like a void within you? Is it more like you feel like you are missing out on something? I feel that way too. I don’t have a void but I definitely get annoyed that I’ve been ensnared all my life and it would be nice if I could have one relationship that was real.

            I do have a dark side too. I do feel enjoyment knowing that the narcissists suffer.

            I also maintain a facade and i am very aware of it. I’ve written about that before. The facade maintenance is to protect my family.

            I would say for years I didn’t know who I was until the EDC & TDC. The traits were still there though, I just didn’t have a name for it. I always wanted to help, save and fix. I’ve also always been explosive.

            I don’t think I have a false self. Its only me. I just don’t show me to everyone.

            I also know if I’m ever single, I’m going to stay single for a very long time. Even though I don’t necessarily think I have a true self vs a false self. There is so much about me that I want to learn.

            I don’t know if my comment helped at all but I don’t know if its a void within you. It seems like you’re just wanting real, true, empathic love.

          5. A Victor says:

            Hi Leigh, I tried so hard to reply to your comment last night and falling asleep repeatedly while attempting to do so, finally gave up. Your comment was very powerful to me. I think maybe this is it. In working through this thought process, all over the blog unfortunately, it may be distilling down to this. And I don’t know that it’s that unusual, many of the single friends I have feel this way but have been in touch with it within themselves much longer than I have. It isn’t a case of not have a full and complete life, it is more a desire, I keep thinking a yearning, to have a special person to share it with rather than experiencing it alone. I love my life, I want to share it! It is a great life and deserves to be shared! I also would love to be able to be a part of his life. And yes, the whole thing about having one real, true, empathic intimate relationship, that is it. Just one. And I deserve that, right? But just because we “deserve” something doesn’t mean it will happen. So I must decide that it is okay to proceed as I am and figure out how to avoid, ignore, resist…?…the yearning. It is different than lonely I think. I was lonely in my marriage. This is better than that by far. Thank you for hearing this from my comments and putting it here, it is very helpful. To deal with something, the first step is understanding there is something to deal with, the second is defining what it is. I’m at step two!! Thank you for bearing with my rambling thought process here.

            I do not have the dark side like you do, I don’t want anything to do with the narcissists. Probably the only book I have not purchased of HG’s is “Revenge”. My dark side manifests more in a twisted sense of humor at times, and my sexuality (blushing), I have to work to rein these in at times. It doesn’t really go outward.

            It sounds like you had the same lack of a sense of self that I did, those consults have been amazing toward figuring that out, though I am far from done. I was only explosive with my ex. And now a couple of times with my mother, around the time of my dad’s death. But my ex could really bring it out, until I gave up.

            I agree about the false self vs the facade. I had, can still have occasionally, a facade. But not a false self, it never went that far.

            You are wise to stay single and learn about yourself, should the opportunity present. It will make you better going into something at a later point. Or at least, this is my hope, for both of us.

            Your comment was very helpful, thank you!

          6. Leigh says:

            You’re damn right you deserve it! We all do and I hope we all find it one day.

          7. Asp Emp says:

            AV, I am aware of the Myers-Briggs 16 Personalities – I found that very interesting and I did mine too. RE: the ‘void’, I wondered if you noticed it since you joined KTN, or at least, became more acutely aware of one existing? It would be explained by knowing about narcissism, then realising that the relationships you have had / have got with narcissists are based on the different views as HG explained using the ‘prism’ analogy.

            I think HG created this blog, also, with a view of people finding (or at least, rediscovering) their own ‘true self’ because he came to understand that he has a ‘true self’. I am not saying that we all have a ‘false self’ – because basically with people like me, I tend to have a ‘facade’ that I put on when I leave my house (in other words, a ‘shield of protection’ of my vulnerability – protecting my ‘true self’) against the ‘world’ outside – purely because of partly what I am and my life’s experiences in society……. I had always done this instinctively more than logically. I don’t say to myself “Right, you are leaving the house now and put up your shield”. I think that ‘normals’ are the only group of people that don’t do it – narcissists & empaths do.
            Yes, the sock / talc is true. I had come downstairs and he had not heard me, he had the tv on – Adult Babestation or something like that – the advertising of chats etc. Only a Lesser would wank off at that!!! No need to apologise, at all. I was annoyed, disgusted and recall saying something like “What the fk?!”. He was caught red-handed. Literally. I am laughing now, at the memory of the conversation on this blog.

            You need to let go of your annoyance about narcissists and their ‘someone’ – because it is something that is holding you back unnecessarily. I know it’s difficult and I also know that it will change for you (your way of thinking). The ET is the hardest part of our journey. That’s why it takes time.

            RE: the ‘provocation’ – I was referring to the image on HG’s article. I love that image, it brings out my ‘fk you’ side, even though to some people the image itself may be viewed from another perspective 😉

            RE: my EDC / TDC – I have my ‘suspicions’ as to where I fit in on those, knowing myself by now (laughing). I did not have these done at the start of my journey because of a) financial reasons and b) I instinctively knew (not logically) that I was not in a logical frame of mind to go through the process – but that is how I operate sometimes. I felt my learning about narcissism and understanding myself as an individual was more of a priority for me.

          8. A Victor says:

            Asp Emp,
            I have written about the void more on other threads, will let you read those rather than rewrite here, it is starting to make sense though, I think, thank you for your help with it.

            Your comment about your facade when you go out was interesting to me. I used to have that as well, every time I left the house, and I was very aware of it. It was my defense. But now, reading your comment, I realized I don’t really use it very often any more. It has been able to be set aside, and I am very thankful for that, it means I have less fear.

            So sorry for you sock situation. Still laughing, ‘crunchy’, gross!!

            I need a reason to let go of that. I don’t want to unless there is a good reason. I don’t think of anyone in particular, I don’t even know if my ex has someone. It’s more a matter of all couples, narc or not. And I can’t be around any of them much at the moment. It grates on me. So, please, tell my how this is holding me back. I will reassess this position given reason to.

            I see, I like that image too, it is fitting.

            I see about the EDC/TDC. It is all a process and we all take it in our own unique way. Maybe you will be ready at some point.

          9. Asp Emp says:

            AV, I am combing the two conversations you and I are having on here – (it’s one less moderating for HG, at least – so sorry HG, and your time is greatly appreciated, thank you x).

            Comment 1 :

            What you say about moving forward as an adult and cannot go back – absolutely. I understand exactly what you mean when you say ‘primary connection’ – it is similar to two-peas-in-a-pod connection with someone. It is so good to read what you have said here – it is really constructive. Thank you for sharing it.

            Comment 2 :

            It is good to read that you do not feel the need to have a ‘defense’ as you leave your house. The other couples thing where I suggested you to let go of – holding onto that ‘thought’ is holding you back, maybe from reducing your ET. Maybe your ‘hurt’ over your past intimate relationships is really deep? I know exactly how it feels, seeing other couples, it can be a very painful reminder of what you think you are missing. It’s different for everyone who is / or has experienced it – we have differentiating perspectives because of the different experiences. You already have reason to ‘reassess’ – it’s part of the reason why you are here, on KTN blog. Reassess in your own time, when you are ready to. I am actually ready to do my EDC / TDC yet will do so when possible, I know they will be interesting indeed.

          10. A Victor says:

            Asp Emp,
            Thank you for consolidating. I need to do that with a couple of other threads/trains of thought but I can’t seem to find them at the same time to do so.

            Comment 1 :
            I responded to a comment Leigh had written on the Geyser Empath that connects to this thought, I think.

            Comment 2 :
            Super excited that you’re ready to do the consults!! And yes, I think the “unfairness” is an aspect that makes me envious and also that I need to address to bring my ET down. Going on my ever expanding list of questions. Haha. At least I have a place to put these things!

            Thank you for working through all of this with me! Very helpful!

          11. Asp Emp says:

            AV, I am more than happy to help anyone that is deserving of it. Even though the Emotional Thinking is given a name – I think there are several aspects to it altogether (components, if you will) because of the different types of emotions involved within the addiction of narcissism, it’s not easy to work through all these emotions at the same time though.

          12. Jasmin says:

            Woke up and read this conversation this morning.
            Very interesting!
            I also have the sense of ‘void’ and I think you are correct Asp Emp, it might be the ‘true self’ which is trapped.
            After much time of being ‘conditioned’ it is even difficult to distinguish what actually is the ‘true self’. That’s what I ‘m working on now.
            Sometimes I think the void could come from missing emotional support as a child aswell? I had my mom till I was 7 there after she became more and more secluded(?). I spent a lot of time in my room, alone, with the door closed.
            When I was looking for a partner I wanted someone who I could rely on and who would support me.
            I can really relate to “I didn’t get married to be single at this point” but I don’t want any intimate relationship at the moment or in the near future. What I want to and really need is to re- socialize.

            You seems the have a clear mind Asp Emp. Was it long time sense you went NC? Or was your ensnarement short-lived?

          13. Asp Emp says:

            Jasmin, thank you for your response. I am delighted that you shared your view on the ‘void’. Maybe empaths & narcissists, with their ‘heightened’ sensitivity can ‘sense’ their ‘voids’? Neither group are acutely aware of their ‘voids’ unless they are consciously aware (ie the Greaters and educated emapths)?

            RE: your words “Sometimes I think the void could come from missing emotional support as a child” – I have seen it suggested that the ‘love’ not given to children by care-givers can cause issues with relationships with peers and others as the child grows older, even into adulthood.

            RE: you saying “When I was looking for a partner I wanted someone who I could rely on and who would support me” – interesting, it just occurred to me (!?) that, for many years, I was instinctively seeking the same. Since I am aware of myself as an individual, I now am conscious of the same ‘insight’. Maybe this is also what narcissists seek on an instinctual basis (because the majority of them are not aware of their narcissism)? I wonder if the Greaters are aware of this ‘basic human need requirement’ within themselves?

            As you word it, my ‘clear mind’ is from partly, me being what I am and partly because of my learning done on KTN (looking within myself as an individual). I also am aware that I tend to ‘disassociate’ emotionally – no surprise why but at least I now can recognise why and when I do it, yet it is still more instinctual than logically at the moment it takes place.

            My ensnarements a) mother, a life-time until she died – no contact since (laughing), b) the Lesser, around 10 years (NC for 8 years now), c) the MR, around 6 years (NC about a year). Before I ever met Lesser & MR, I ‘found me’ again (regained confidence, became stronger within myself etc). Since I remember how I was before, during and after being ensnared by the narcissists of my past and now realising it is all because of my addiction and life-long ensnarements (with a break in between narcissist relationships !!). Hence why HG’s work is so VERY important and his way of educating works.

          14. A Victor says:

            Jasmin and Asp Emp,
            If this is my true self wanting to come out, I think it’s the parts that would have been stuffed as a child as well, like you two said. The longing to connect with someone in a real and safe way. I think that is it. And though I connect with my kids this way, and my grandkids, they are not that primary connection, most of them have that already and for my son, I hope he does at some point. And there are boundaries with our children that don’t allow them to be our primary connection. I think we are supposed to have that ‘sense’ of primary connection with our parents when we are children, though they keep the boundaries in place, if they’re healthy. I did not have healthy parents and my childhood need for that sense of connection was not met. So, yes, that makes sense. As an adult, I prefer the terms reprogramming or rewiring, once these things are sorted out, to ‘reparenting’ that former child, I cannot go back, so I must move forward, as an adult. Though it is possibly semantics with those who view this differently. Anyway, thank you both, very helpful, I feel like I have learned a good piece here.

          15. Truthseeker6157 says:


            This comment had me aching laughing. I can just imagine you walking in and the look on his face when you did. I remember the lengthy discussion about the purpose of the talc. Makes me feel just a tad nauseous. Shame you couldn’t have switched the TV onto National Geographic!

          16. Asp Emp says:

            TS, his face – redder than I had ever seen it.

            Laughing…. “the purpose of the talc”……. laughing….

            I should have told him to leave the house straight away, never mind changed channels on the tv!

          17. Truthseeker6157 says:

            Asp Emp,

            It reminds me of when enraged, I flew into Love of My Life Guy’s apartment. He was sat on the floor, back against the couch having a TV dinner when I burst through the door with a great big bag and started marching through the apartment collecting my stuff. I’ll never forget that look. His mouth fell open, his fork mid air, his eyes wide. Rage was pouring off me. It was just this look, like he had lost the ability to speak! Haha.

          18. Asp Emp says:

            Laughing……. oh, that is hilarious. While you were like a ‘tornado’, he was in slo-mo…….laughing….

          19. Jasmin says:

            I must have missed to turn on the notifications on this thread.. I recently saw in a comment on “down” that you had made a comment to me here! Sorry for a late response.

            In the narcissist maybe “the void” is part of “the creature” which must not make itself heard?? That is senced then fuel levels are low? Or is it just sence of weakness and vulnerability they experience?

            As you also wanted someone to rely on and that would support you. Had you felt a lack of support earlier in your life? (As you are an ACON I guess so)
            As you say it’s a basical human need and that’s what we all seek (not sure about the narcs?).
            I became consciously awere of seeking reliance and support when I was 17 or 18 years old. I made a new friend and she was very supportive. I was surprised how she just saw the need and offered help. I think that the strong contrast made me awere. From not asking for favours if not absolutely necessary (I just couldn’t make it by myself and was most likely met with a sigh) to thankfully accept her support.

            I want to make clear that my mum is not a bad person. I’m sure she is an empath but as a consequence of her ensarments she became more and more exhausted, apathetic and bitter. She was on and off. When she was ON she gave emotional support and when she was OFF she was not capable of doing so.

            My ensnarments:
            a). My dad (since birth and I am not in NC).
            b). My stepdad (since 7 years and I am not in NC because of my mother).
            c). My cousin (she was inner circle friend from 13-17 years so she had great impact on me, total NC sence my grandmother died when I was 19 years).
            d). Narc 1 prob. LMR Elite (19 – 22 years old, IPSS and NISS, NC since 9 months).
            e). Narc 2 prob. MMRA Elite (21 – 34 years, IPPS, almost NC since 5 months).
            I got a lot to work on!😅

            My experience is quite near to yours in the sence of growing strong before getting ensnared again..
            When I was 17 I moved out from a home with a narc (stepdad) and moved in with my first boyfriend. Not long after I broke with my cousin. I made new friends. Thinks were happening inside me. I started to feel good, happy, strong and confident. First ‘romantic’ narc ensnarement didn’t bring me down as much. Yes, I felt heartbroken and I’ve felt the overpresence during all these years wondering what kind of spell he did put on me?? But I wasn’t left with a low self-esteem, self-doubt or exhaustion.
            Unfortunately second ensarment did very much harm to me.
            I also remember how I was and how I felt, but then comes the self-doubt.. maybe I wasn’t the way I think? (Of course the ex-narc had told me many times) Maybe I’m just remembering the good things?
            It have become much better and I’m not doubting as much as I did but I still got a swing of doubt.

            Happy to see that you’ve been in NC for 1 year now and that you have recovered well!

          20. Asp Emp says:

            Hi Jasmin, RE: WP notifications – I have noticed that maybe when the thread gets too long, it can lead to replies getting ‘lost en route’. No need to apologise – that’s technology for you (hence why humans are still better than computers !!).

            RE: creature / void within narcissists – possibly when ‘fuel’ levels are low, the instincts of the narcissist ‘kicks in’ – a bi like when your stomach rumbles cos you ain’t eaten yet – the stomach sends a message to the brain (the ‘rumbling’) as a reminder for some food please, the brain responds by sending the sound and then your mind says ‘oh, I need to put some food in my mouth’…… that is probably how it is for a narcissist and ‘fuel’…….

            RE: my ‘support’ – it’s a combination – as an ACON; Aspergers and empath – for me as a person. Lack of support in many ways as a child – let down by systems & mother & work…. Thank fully there are people who can ‘spot’ others who need support – very few and far in between are those who are absolutely brilliant and end up being friends for life. I am like that towards someone who lives in London and she loves me for being the support she needs from time to time – also brilliant company (she can be cray-cray just like me!).

            Your list of narcissists – that is long. I am thankful of an ’empty’ list at present (future, maybe at work !). I still have narcissist friends in my life and I will not abandon them because of the narcissism.

            Yes, the ‘exhaustion’ via ensnarement can be very deep. It can be very dangerous for some of the more ‘vulnerable’ people within society, especially if they don’t know about narcissism or can recognise being a ‘victim’.

            It was good to read your comment, thank you 🙂

          21. Jasmin says:

            Asp Emp, yes these threads when getting long.. No reply after the comment so you have to scroll. Up, up up and sometimes I’ve find I’ve made my reply in the wrong place. Haha!

            Cray-cray! I like that! The friend who supported me got a lot of it aswell. Much more than I actually.
            We where classmates and best friends at upper secondary school and even if we went different ways and moved to different cities we have always been in contact and see each other few times a year.
            One thing I really appreciate when I’m with her is that she’s very straightforward and I can be so with her aswell. Their is never any misconception. She gets it right and I don’t have to explain myself.
            After long-time ensarment with Mr Narc I became so dry.. No craziness allowed in his ‘perfect’ world..

            “Systems” could be a long discussion but the site is not here to discuss politics. I hope the you are making it out.❤

            I’m a bit curious about what made you decide to keep some of your friends even they are narcissists?

          22. Asp Emp says:

            Hi Jasmin, thank you for your response & sharing. I am glad you have good friends that understand and accept you as you are, that is very important and it really helps a lot.

            Systems does not have to be about politics. HG has produced a ‘system’ here, the blog, YT, the Dectectors, Consultations etc – it’s one he designed himself, it works much better than any I have actually seen anywhere else to be honest. And produces results, tangible evidence. There are Laws RE: Mental Health Act; Equality Act; Care Act; Autism Act but for someone like me to access “therapy”, I would have had to wait months, possibly a year or more, may have ended up on the incorrect ‘route’ or the wrong type of therapist. HG’s site / work covers probably more Laws than any other ‘route to therapy’ as more often than not, you have to meet one ie Mental Health Act but does not necessarily cover ie Autism Act at the same time because it gets too “complicated” for the system to navigate people through it to produce short term results.

            My friends, they are not manipulating me, not using me for anything, no ‘abuse’ and having known them more than 40 years – why end relationships over narcissism as a final ‘resort’? They are not doing me any harm. I lived with them for 6 years as well. I am happy to have them as friends and I love them as they are, I have no concerns. They know I am a head-strong person and will not tolerate any BS from anyone – but it’s different when being ensnared and manipulated to extremes, more difficult to ‘navigate’ when you have no ‘training’ on how to deal with them (LOL). Until now, anyway, so I understand my friends better too. They don’t know that I know they are narcissists, I have no need to tell them either.

          23. Jasmin says:

            Hi again Asp Emp!

            I’m a bit surprised by your response with regard to your narcissist freinds but I do understand that you feel a strong bond towards them after have been knowing them for that many, many years!

            If your friends are narcissists they will use you for something. As a woman with strong character you’d provide character triats and you would provide positive fuel! If your friends are narsissists they manipulate you- but as NISS you will (most likely) be subjected to begin manipulation so I can see how you think there is no harm in being friend with them.
            When it comes to the actual “harm” I’m not sure? Maybe even if the relationship with that friend is not causing any harm(?) I suspect that an interaction with them (as narcissists) higten the ET and might cause flaunt logic in relation to more harmful relationship forms with them. What I want to say is that I think that if I have narcissists as friends I might be easier to get ensnared in a romantic relationship, which will cause a lot of harm!

            I got one friend that I’m quite sure she is a narc and I really have a good time with her so I don’t know if I’m going to keep her as a friend or not.🤷‍♀️ For me it is easier to break with a friend than close family members. I know I should have gone NC with my dad but I haven’t becuase it’s difficult. I guess what I in someway I feel duty towards him..

            When you wrote ‘let down by systems’ my mind went to social/welfare systems therefore I made the political connection.

          24. Asp Emp says:

            Hello Jasmin 🙂

            I totally understand and accept your ‘reasoning’ in relation to my friends and their narcissism. I had always acted on my instincts when it came to my friends. At the same time, I also, now, believe they ‘sensed’ the empath in me (‘fear’ to a degree) and also instinctively did not go too ‘far’ to ‘cross’ me – because they ‘value’ the ‘fuel’ too much to lose the friendship with me (recalling HG’s ‘The 5 Fears of The Narcissist’ article). There has never been “harm” in the sense of the word. Yes, there has been slight ‘manipulations’ but my instincts responded accordingly (without knowing the real reason why at that time). My other friends who were also present, would either a) speak up (say that is not right etc), or b) indirectly (LOL) have a ‘go’ back at the narcissist friend.

            It is really absolutely fascinating, looking back and smiling with remembering such moments of ‘assertions of control’, and so on. I do not get angry, upset, sad or anything like that – because they are my friends and I feel even more blessed to have them in my life. Just because I now understand them as individuals better.

            What I can say for sure, I know it will also give me moments of ‘pleasure’ (so I can enjoy the ‘interaction’ more – because of the ‘secret’ that I know that they do not know = their unawareness of their narcissism) – I know that may come across as a ‘negative’ coming from an empath, but, hey, we all need a bit of ‘excitement’ of our own 😉 But I’d never do it with ‘malice’. Never. They are my friends. I have nothing but love and respect for them, despite their narcissism – it does not impact me in any way at all. We have known each other too long for it to have a negative impact on us all concerned. Instinctively we “know” each other’s ‘boundaries’. And, when to give each other ‘space’ (LOL), if and when it is getting a bit ‘heated’ (LOL). All this shows my understanding and acceptance of them as individuals, just like they have for me, in return.

            RE: you saying, in relation to your father “I guess what I in someway I feel duty towards him” – maybe it is similar but not the same in relation to me and my friends – it’s a different ‘angle’ altogether.

            It was really lovely to hear from you, thank you.

          25. Asp Emp says:

            Jasmin, I would like to add…. My friends and I have a ‘symbiotic relationship’ (mutual) – that works both ways. And also because we more or less “grew” up together, there is an ‘element’ of each other ‘protecting’ our ‘inner’ selves towards each other as individuals co-existing on this planet. This ‘symbiosis’ that I am talking about was always ‘instinctual’, hence using the word ‘relationship’ rather than ‘parasite’. Effectively, I retain my ‘power’ and at the same time, my friends retain their ‘control’.

            The Lesser, the MR and mother – they are / were ‘parasitic’.

            Considering the fact that my addiction to narcissism was present before I met my friends.

          26. Jasmin says:

            Hi Asp Emp!

            Thank you for your response. Now I can see how you resonate about your narcissist freinds.

            “What I can say for sure, I know it will also give me moments of ‘pleasure’ (so I can enjoy the ‘interaction’ more – because of the ‘secret’ that I know that they do not know = their unawareness of their narcissism) – I know that may come across as a ‘negative’ coming from an empath, but, hey, we all need a bit of ‘excitement’ of our own 😉 But I’d never do it with ‘malice’”
            – I do feel entertained by this as well. I can’t help but smiling to myself. 😅
            When it comes those who have been harming to me or to someone I love I will even do so with malice.. even more negative coming from an empath. This is one side of me that had me doubting my ‘status’. I’m glad that HG are writing about those dark sides of us.

            Another thing that bother me when it comes to having narsissist friends is that even if I’m threated well I know that their is a suffering IPPS.. that makes me don’t want to have anything to do with them.

            Best regards.

          27. Asp Emp says:

            Hi Jasmin 🙂 glad to read that you also find ‘entertainment’ RE: my words on knowing that they are narcissists and gaining some entertainment…. ah, the ‘dark’ side of the empath 😉

            I totally get what you mean “doubting your status” – (LOL) – it is the same reasons why I also felt / thought similar (smirk). I no longer ‘doubt’ myself in this respect. In fact, I now relish it! Only because now I know.

            I know what you mean RE: having narcissist friends can cause some ‘friction’ ie ‘threats’ as you say. It is a matter of recognising when it is happening and use your learning to apply the right ‘response / reaction’ at the time. I have seen ‘snapping’ at their spouse but I do not ‘intervene’ but if it seems to get a bit heated, then I may come up with some kind of distraction – ie changing the subject – only because they are my friends – I don’t take ‘sides’. I love them all the same. Thank you for conversing about it 🙂

          28. Jasmin says:

            Misspelling again! Wanted to write treat, wrote threat. 🙈😅

            I don’t doubt my status anymore either.

  12. A Victor says:

    Can’t wait to see the merch for this one!!

    1. BC30 says:

      Ok, but we *are* getting merch right? I swear I saw something was in the works unless HG was joking about glitter/bling. I wonder what the Geyser catch phrase would be tho.

      1. Asp Emp says:

        BC30, I am sure you could contribute your suggestions 😉

        1. BC30 says:

          I wish I was so creative; I would have gone into marketing! If I come up with anything, I’ll share.

          1. Asp Emp says:

            I am sure you will, BC30 🙂 (laughing).

      2. Truthseeker6157 says:

        BC30, It might just be a heart on the sleeve x

        ( doesn’t work so well on water bottles though!)

        ‘ Eruption Imminent’?

        1. NarcAngel says:

          Geyser Tees:

          Caution for overspray

          1. Asp Emp says:

            NA, laughing – caution for overspray.

          2. Truthseeker6157 says:


        2. A Victor says:

          A shirt 👚 shaped water bottle with a heart on one sleeve? Lol! I love the ‘Eruption Imminent’!

          1. Truthseeker6157 says:


            ‘Eruption Imminent’. I remember BC30 talking about losing her temper and hitting her partner with pool noodles. It was such a funny image. I associate it with Geyser now. It still makes me laugh because I can absolutely see her doing it !

        3. Asp Emp says:

          TS, ‘Eruption Imminent’ – I reckon that is more appropriate to the Empath’s Supanova merch 😉

          1. Truthseeker6157 says:


            Maybe, depends how you view the Supernova I suppose. xx

      3. Melmel says:

        Wind me up and watch me Blow?

        Thanks for commenting on this article – I was thinking this morning that I’d like to read it again!

      4. A Victor says:

        I don’t know! I would assume so. But I’ve been checking and nothing yet. I will have to get something very small, to represent my very small amount. Hahahaha!! You know what would be fun for that one? Like a Geyser necklace )l( << on top of a slanted
        o. Or something like that. Or a bracelet. Anyway, whatever HG comes up with, I'm sure it will be amazing, all his merch is. Hmmm, "Geyser Empath, spewing empathy everywhere they go!"

        Disclaimer, I am not known for my creativity.

      5. A Victor says:

        OOOOHHHHH, you could add little rhinestones to the “water”, that would add some bling!

        1. BC30 says:

          I love this idea!

      6. A Victor says:

        “…Gushing Empathy…”?

  13. Leigh says:

    The geyser in me has been strong the past 5 days. Workplace narc was laid off yesterday but I knew it was happening on Tuesday since I’m HR. I’ve been a hot mess, crying for 5 days. I guess I wasn’t over him. We haven’t been intimate in over two years. What the heck is wrong with me???

    1. A Victor says:

      I’m so sorry to hear this Leigh! Not about him leaving but for your reaction to it. I don’t have any real advice, you could try “Get thee down ET!”, but that is easier said than done. Why do you suppose it’s making you so upset?

      1. Eternity says:

        A Victor, it is the Addiction to the Narcissist, and now he won’t be around the workplace and the Addiction won’t be feed,that you will experience withdrawal symptoms. That is what I believe is happening.

        1. Leigh says:

          Yes, I agree. I’m sad for him as well. I want him to be ok.

          1. Eternity says:

            The most important thing right now is that you are ok! You are more important than him! He will go get his fuel from someone else because there always is someone else we are just a number waiting in line. Enough of this shit. We deserve to be put first!!!!

          2. Leigh says:

            Thank you Eternity. I’m starting to feel better. I know I’m better off without him. That’s why I wouldn’t be intimate with him again. It just hit me like a ton of bricks. I wasn’t prepared at all.

          3. Eternity says:

            I was thinking about you and I am so glad you are feeling better . ❤
            I understand that it was shocking for you. Time heals all wounds you will bounce back before you know it .

          4. Leigh says:

            Thank you Eternity! Each day gets a little easier.

          5. Eternity says:

            Of course it will Leigh, just stay positive keep smiling. Life is too short. Spend the rest of it with people that actually love and care about you for real!

      2. Leigh says:

        I wasn’t ready to give him up. I was still addicted to him and the way he made me feel. He made me feels things I didn’t even know existed within me.

        I know I’ll be ok. Last night I had plans with a couple of girlfriends to go out for dinner. I decided to have a drink too since someone else was driving. I ending up having the best time. We laughed and laughed and then laughed some more.

        JB, if you are reading this, this comment is for you too. It shows that even though I’m sad right now, I was still able to have some happiness too. I think the happiness is inherent in us. We just need something to spark it.

        1. A Victor says:

          I see. I remember that feeling from last summer, after my escape. It is very difficult, hang in there and write as you need to. My heart is sad for you to be going through this.

          1. Leigh says:

            I’m already feeling a better AV. I think the more I’m away from him the better I will start to feel. The addiction will start to ware off eventually.

        2. A Victor says:

          Super happy for you that you had a good time with your friends though!

        3. JB says:

          Ah thank you, Leigh xx I needed to read that today xx

          I’m glad you had a good time the other night. It’s hard, being forced to give up something or someone before you are ready to. I am feeling that on so many levels too right now. But now hopefully you will be able to start to truly move on, which can’t have been so easy whilst he was still there at work x

          1. Leigh says:

            #facts. It sucks being forced to give something up . The truth is he wasn’t good for me because he caused me a lot of pain and it needed to be done.

          2. JB says:

            Leigh, I know it does (suck) 😔 But just recognising that he caused you pain and that it therefore needed to be done is a sign of strength, I think. Hang in there x

    2. Eternity says:

      Hi Leigh,
      I think what may be happening is that your ET is kicking in knowing that you will not be seeing him in the workplace anymore, and that you will miss him. Let it out cry it is OK, break something if you have to also. Get it out of your system. In the long term this is happening for a reason and believe it , which is better for No Contact with this man. It was for the best you were not intimate either. I had strong intuition the last time this man should have been either fired or let go for the way he kept on hanging around you . Please be strong and have HOPE. You do not need this love.

      1. Leigh says:

        Thank you Eternity. Yes, I will miss him but it is for the best. Although, right now it doesn’t feel that way. I know its my ET and my addiction. I know it will get easier. I just need to refocus my energy to something positive. Its not in my nature to break things, I’m a fixer. I fix everything. I even tried to fix this situation. I tried to stop the layoff but the decision had already been made.

        1. Eternity says:

          Hi Leigh,
          Look at your life you do have a lot of things that are positive! He definitely wasn’t one of them.
          Things always happen for a reason in life .
          Trust me the layoff was for the best! And so was other layoff if you get my drift.

    3. Truthseeker6157 says:

      Hey Leigh,

      Your situation is similar to mine with the online narc so I’ll have a go at finding where you are.

      No, you weren’t over him. You had him sectioned off and placed to one side where you could think about him when you wanted to. It’s about what he represented. The possibility of things being different. Now he’s gone and you are left with things as they were and are.

      We have an addiction. We know this and we know it’s bad for us. We all are in agreement. Where empaths differ is mentally, how we handle that addiction. Removing yourself is the only way to reduce ET. Fact and true. As it falls, and more logic is accepted, it becomes easier to stay away. The decision is made and we stick to it. All good so far. The problem though is we are still forced into a situation where it is not possible for us to address the end of the relationship as we would normally do. So with workplace narc the relationship never fully failed. You stopped it, correctly, because he is a narcissist.

      This leaves us in a situation whereby, we’re staying away because we are told to, not because the interaction reached its natural conclusion. So, you keep the narc set to one side as the temptation you stay away from, but in your mind, it never ended, because it never truly began. It’s a different scenario to a relationship with a long term narcissist I think. We idolise them more because we aren’t faced with the day to day and on a constant basis. What HG writes is entirely correct, depending on school of narcissist and your position in the fuel matrix, the interaction would follow a set pattern. We didn’t feel it though, we are told, we didn’t actually experience it to that degree.

      Really, the key thing is time. It fades. Lowered ET also makes a huge huge difference to the way you view things. You will recognise your part in it, your input into the illusion / opportunity that this narc seemed to offer. The addiction is strange in itself because we don’t all handle addictions in the same way. I used to smoke many years ago. When I gave up, I did what everyone tells you to do. Removed all cigarettes from the house, car etc. No secret stash. Perfect. Off we go then. No. That didn’t work for me. I needed a safety net. I needed to have an unopened pack in the drawer. The fact they were there settled me. Take them away, I panicked. Keep them and they were there If needed. I never needed them enough to open the pack. I had those cigarettes in the drawer for two yrs, until I moved and threw them out in the clear out. Seeing the narc in work was your safety net. You don’t actually need him at all, you just think that you do. Addiction is tricky and mentally, we need to find our own triggers and ways to close it down. There are tips and tricks, but ultimately, you need to find your own way out.

      I won’t say that it’s actually a good thing that he left, because that is not how it feels. I’ll say instead that over time as your ET falls, you will see things better for what they were. Xx

      1. Leigh says:

        TS, Wow! You hit the nail on the head, for sure! I loved that you compared it to smoking. I’ve smoked on and off for nearly 40 years. I just had a cigarette on Saturday when I went out with my girlfriends. I still can’t quite give up those cigarettes just like I struggled giving up workplace narc. He was most definitely my safety net. There just in case I needed a hit.

        My addiction is twofold. I like how he made me feel (when it was good) but I also liked how it felt to help him. I want to save him from the Creature. It’s interesting because I don’t want to save my husband or my mother from the creature. I think it’s because my mother and my husband just take and give nothing in return. At least,i get something from workplace narc. The only problem with that is its just an illusion.

        TS, thank you for the insight!

        1. Truthseeker6157 says:

          You’re welcome Leigh.

          We all have the addiction and it works for as all in different ways, capitalising on our various traits. This is where we are all the same. How we deal with the addiction mentally (other than No Contact which I believe is a given) is where we differ. Here we need draw on what has worked for us in the past. We need to look into our past and current situations and think about where in us those remaining hooks still lie embedded.

          There’s a book I read years ago called ‘Allen Carr’s Easy Way To Give Up Smoking.’ It is written for that specific addiction but in actual fact what he writes about is more to do with the power of our own minds in sustaining that addiction and how that arises. It’s definitely worth a read. I drew on elements from it when working out how best to kick my addiction to the narcissist. My ET needed to fall, but afterwards there were things within the book that helped me finally kick the habit. Just a thought. Xx

          1. Leigh says:

            I will definitely check that out. I really need to kick the cigarette habit as well. Its one of those things that I always go back to. I’m not a heavy smoker either. Even when I am smoking on a regular basis, I smoke maybe two packs a week. They are too damn expensive and I’m too damn cheap. Where I live the cigarettes are $11 a pack. That’s why I wouldn’t allow myself more than 2 packs a week. I quit again in September of 2020 though. Since then, I’ve smoked 4 cigarettes. I still can’t completely give them up.

          2. Truthseeker6157 says:


            It sounds like you are in control of your smoking. I have friends who can do that. Part time smokers. Not me haha! I am in, or I am out. An all or nothing personality through and through! You’re right though, prohibitively expensive and we all have better things to spend our money on! I’m glad HG let my book suggestion through. I think it will really help Leigh. Thank you HG.

        2. Bubbles says:

          Dearest Leigh,
          $11 ???
          Cigarettes here are over triple the price for a pack of 20 compared to yours, roughly $AU35 + I had to look it up) 😱
          I’m addicted to Op shops (Just missed out on a large Villeroy n Boch Xmas dish)…..bugga! Gotta be quick ! 😂
          I think everyone has an addiction/s of some sort !
          Luv Bubbles xx 😘

          1. Leigh says:

            Oh my gosh! Thats a lot of money! Are there alot of smokers where you live? I don’t think I’d be willing to spend that much.

          2. Bubbles says:

            Dearest Leigh,
            Sorry to take so long to answer lovely ….. I’m slow haha
            Our youngest son smokes, (silly boy) but has cut back apparently and rolls his own now (he’s constantly stressed …… no wonder, he lives with a narc). I can smell it on him when he comes over, he stinks !! Tries to cover it up with fragrances!
            Two of my close girlfriends smoke … one mainly uses marijuana for medicinal purposes …. back pain
            I luv them all dearly ! 🤣
            No one else in the family smokes and none of our other friends smoke
            It’s pretty much discouraged here and the majority don’t smoke cigarettes Seems to be more of a switch n rise in recreational drugs …. methamphetamines etc (parents who drop their kids off to school) 😱.
            We prefer to partake in a drop of wine or two ….. Australia produces great vino btw ! Can’t waste it 😂
            Luv Bubbles xx 😘

          3. Leigh says:

            Bubbles, its ok. Some of us have been having trouble with wordpress and the notifications. I just figured the same thing happened here. As a matter of fact, I didn’t get this notification either. I just went through my conversations and saw the comment.

            Smoking is soooooo taboo here. I live in NY and there are many public, outside spaces where you can’t smoke either. The places where you can smoke outside, the people around you would look at you like you’re this terrible person. At least that’s how it felt. I like to go to the beach and enjoy a cigarette while I hear the crashing of the waves. I’m thinking about it right now and its making me smile. I don’t know why I find that enjoyable, but I do. I’m getting to my point, I promise, lol. I could never enjoy the cigarette because I felt like people were staring and pointing. I felt like I was in high school again and had to sneak the cigarette, lol.

            Those days are behind me now. I quit in September. Although all this talk about cigarettes, makes me want to have one now, lol. 🚬🚬🚬

          4. Bubbles says:

            Dearest Leigh,
            I completely understand hehe
            I was once a smoker …. it was the fashion back then, especially the long cigarette holders …. how posh they were. It made a statement and was an essential fashion accessory. I used to smoke coloured cigarettes “sobranie cocktail” I think they were called, very swish, designed especially for ladies haha If you didn’t smoke you were the odd one out. Now, if you smoke you’re a leper. Smoking is pretty much banned everywhere here too. I gave up fairly easily.
            See, we have a whole variety of addictions, we just swap one for the other 😂
            Luv Bubbles xx 😘

    4. Empath007 says:

      It’s because you are still around him and work with him. I have the exact same issue… this is why when HG says No Contact… he means… quit your job. I have not quit my job 3 years later and there’s no doubt that’s had an impact on my recovery. However, I assume like you, getting rid of your main income source during a pandemic isn’t really an option. Plus, when it comes to workplaces..: the next narcissist is waiting at the next job.

      I’m not sure what advice to give because, I can’t seem to shake it myself. Hopefully knowing you are not alone is helpful in itself.

      I know that you are married and emotionally unhappy in that marriage ? Perhaps if you deal with that first (end the marriage) you will feel you have more options available to you in terms of dating… then the man you know is perfectly willing to have an affair.

      All The best.

      1. Leigh says:

        Empath007, yes, its time I leave my husband. Part of my problem is that I can’t make moves on my own. My fear holds me back. Even though I’m sad workplace narc is no longer employed at my company, I’m also glad it happened because I may have never gone no contact on my own.

    5. BC30 says:

      😧 yowza. I’m sorry Leigh. Like others have said, you’re finally processing it.

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