The Overwhelming Angel
The Overwhelming Angel appears as if heaven sent, arriving with apparent kindness, brimming with concern and bursting with cannot-do-enough-to-helpfulness.
The Overwhelming Angel is someone who appears to place you at the centre of their concerns, where they are always wanting to assist, that you have everything you need and I just wanted to make sure you are okay. No. are you really okay?
How might you spot The Overwhelming Angel? Here are many examples of The Overwhelming Angel in action. Remember, one or two of these instances is not determinative but if many of them resonate with you and/or form a pattern then there is cause for concern.
- A telephone call or text first thing in the morning asking if you are okay when there is no reason to suppose that you are not okay. Particularly noteworthy if such a call or text comes after a similar call just as you went to sleep, so that all you have done in between the calls/messages is sleep.
- Turning up when you are out with friends or family “on the off chance you needed something” or “just checking you are having a good time, as I was passing by.”
- Repeated texting to ask “have you arrived okay?” when you are travelling somewhere. Particular noteworthy if you are travelling a short distance and/or travelling with a group.
- Behaving like you are on a first date when you have been in a relationship for some time.
- Turning up at your house very early in the morning when you have been on a night out, the night before with friends or family, either wanting to check that you had a good time or bringing you breakfast.
- Insistence on accompanying you to medical appointments, especially ones which might involve a psychologist or therapist.
- Appearing to be concerned about your diet but making decisions on your behalf “I didn’t buy any wine when I went shopping as I am worried that we (you) might be drinking too much.”, “Where are the Pringles? Oh I threw them out, they are fattening.”
- Providing unfounded warnings about individuals “You won’t have noticed this because you do not pick up on these things like I do, but Lisa´s husband Geoff pervs over you, so it might be a good idea if you do not got to Lisa´s tonight. I don’t want to cause any trouble, but I am just looking out for you.”
- Commenting on your choice of clothing, “I think you look fantastic but do you really want to be wearing something that tight going into town, you know what some of the men can be like.” It is usually the case that the clothing is not especially tight either.
- Overriding your transport choices “It will be easier if I drive you there, safer than getting a taxi or bus.” Particular noteworthy if you have already made a decision to use a form of transport and/or you are travelling with others.
- Turning up to give you a lift home when you have not asked for one.
- Making decisions for you concerning your health, “You sound a little bunged up to me, I think you have a cold coming on, I think it would be best if you stayed in tonight and let me look after you, okay?”
- Appearing uninvited under the auspices of making you feel better when there is no problem to being with “Hi, I am on my way around to you with a care package because you sounded a little down earlier and it is my job to make sure you are happy, I will be there in 10 minutes, see you then.”
- Limiting your opportunity to spend time with other people often done without consulting you “I told Bill and Jenny that you were feeling exhausted after a frantic week at work so I said we couldn’t make it tonight,” or “I rang your mum and said we would give this weekend a miss because you needed a rest.”
- Increasingly frantic but apparently caring calls and messages if you have not responded, often laden with melodrama (“I have called three times and you have not answered, I am frantic with worry that something might have happened to you.” – you told the narcissist you are going next door for a glass of wine, not entered a war-torn part of Syria).
What distinguishes The Overwhelming Angel is that this type of narcissist may not rely on Pity Plays (“I am feeling down, why not stay with me tonight rather than going to the movies with your friends, please?”) or displays of Grandiosity (lots of gift buying, booking trips away, always paying) but it is all about this narcissists sole concern for your well-being, health and best interests.
The behaviour will be overly paternalistic demonstrating an “I know what is best for you” approach, you will be denied the ability to make decisions about your own life, where you go, what you do, who you see, what you choose to eat, wear, watch and so forth. Considerable subtlety will be demonstrated with the comments, they will generally lack force and manifest in ways such as “I am not saying you are overweight but you might want to cut down on the dining out for a while with people from work” or “You probably have not noticed but you have been rather tetchy as of late, you are running yourself down and you do not want to make yourself ill do you. I think it would be best if you have a weekend at home, yes?”
The Overwhelming Angel wants to ensure that you are isolated from anything which enables you to assert who you are, detached and removed from anything that defines you as a separate entity from the narcissist. The Overwhelming Angel like any narcissist sees you as an extension of him or herself and in this instance the extension is based upon an overriding desire to look after you.
Let’s revisit the behaviours above and decipher them further.
- A telephone call or text first thing in the morning asking if you are okay when there is no reason to suppose that you are not okay. Particularly noteworthy if such a call or text comes after a similar call just as you went to sleep, so that all you have done in between the calls/messages is sleep. (Lack of boundary recognition by invading and regulating your time before sleep and time on waking (possibly being woken by the “caring call”. Sense of entitlement. The narcissist wants to make sure you are alone.)
- Turning up when you are out with friends or family “on the off chance you needed something” or “just checking you are having a good time, as I was passing by.” (Lack of boundary recognition, sense of entitlement and wanting to ascertain who you are with to gauge any potential threats.)
- Repeated texting to ask “have you arrived okay?” when you are travelling somewhere. Particular noteworthy if you are travelling a short distance and/or travelling with a group. (Keeping tabs on your movement)
- Behaving like you are on a first date when you have been in a relationship for some time. (Extension of love bombing and lack of awareness as to how a normal, healthy relationship progresses because the narcissist has never been in one)
- Turning up at your house very early in the morning when you have been on a night out, the night before with friends or family, either wanting to check that you had a good time or bringing you breakfast. (Wanting to see if someone else is there, facade of kindness, lack of boundary recognition by turning up very early when you have been on the razzle the night before and therefore wanting to sleep your hangover off)
- Insistence on accompanying you to medical appointments, especially ones which might involve a psychologist or therapist, preventing you from attending medical appointments (where you have organised one to dispute the fact the narcissist says there is something wrong with you) or insisting you attend a medical appointment (just to check everything is okay when the narcissist has organised it)(Concern about outside interference, opportunity to contest the opinion of a medical expert which manifests grandiosity and haughtiness, opportunity to harness medical opinion to declare “told you so” under the banner of apparently caring)
- Appearing to be concerned about your diet but making decisions on your behalf “I didn’t buy any wine when I went shopping as I am worried that we (you) might be drinking too much.”, “Where are the Pringles? Oh I threw them out, they are fattening.” (Belittlement, lack of boundary recognition, acquisition of property)
- Providing unfounded warnings about individuals “You won’t have noticed this because you do not pick up on these things like I do, but Lisa´s husband Geoff pervs over you, so it might be a good idea if you do not got to Lisa´s tonight. I don’t want to cause any trouble, but I am just looking out for you.” (Lies, Gaslighting, Smearing)
- Commenting on your choice of clothing, “I think you look fantastic but do you really want to be wearing something that tight going into town, you know what some of the men can be like and you don’t want to end up a victim of something horrible happening.” It is usually the case that the clothing is not especially tight either. (Blameshifting, Insult)
- Overriding your transport choices “It will be easier if I drive you there, safer than getting a taxi or bus.” Particular noteworthy if you have already made a decision to use a form of transport and/or you are travelling with others. (Lack of boundary recognition)
- Turning up to give you a lift home when you have not asked for one. (Sense of entitlement)
- Making decisions for you concerting your health, “You sound a little bunged up to me, I think you have a cold coming on, I think it would be best if you stayed in tonight and let me look after you, okay?” (Sense of entitlement, Isolating)
- Appearing uninvited under the auspices of making you feel better when there is no problem to being with “Hi, I am on my way around to you with a care package because you sounded a little down earlier and it is my job to make sure you are happy, I will be there in 10 minutes, see you then.” (Sense of entitlement, lack of boundary recognition)
- Limiting your opportunity to spend time with other people often done without consulting you “I told Bill and Jenny that you were feeling exhausted after a frantic week at work so I said we couldn’t make it tonight,” or “I rang your mum and said we would give this weekend a miss because you needed a rest.” (Isolating)
- Increasingly frantic but apparently caring calls and messages if you have not responded, often laden with melodrama (“I have called three times and you have not answered, I am frantic with worry that something might have happened to you.” – you told the narcissist you are going next door for a glass of wine, not entered a war-torn part of Syria). (Lack of boundary recognition)
In all of these behaviours there will be facade management as the narcissist actually believes that he or she is a good, kind and caring person and cannot see that the various strands of narcissistic behaviour amount to two things. The gathering of fuel from you and of course control. Control over where you go, who you see, what you eat, where you dance, where you shop, who you spend time with and for how long.
Owing to the ensnarement that you have, either as IPPS, IPSS and also this can affect NISSs, your emotional thinking is likely to be high and therefore much of this behaviour goes unnoticed for what it is – control. Instead you are likely to think that this person is ever so sweet, very caring, sensitive, thoughtful and considerate. Even if you notice the red flags, your emotional thinking will seek to obscure it by making you feel guilty if you protest, reject or disagree with this behaviour.
This type of behaviour is seen most of all with Middle Mid Range Type A, Middle Mid Range Type B and Lower Mid Range Narcissists.. It is used the most by the Middle Mid Range Type A Narcissist.
If you make some kind of stand against the apparent kindness, thoughtfulness and considerate behaviour, you will experience behaviours such as these :-
- Sulking (Present Silent Treatment)
- Moving to Pity Plays (but not starting with them) (“I am only trying to look after you, there’s not need to be horrible.”)
- Application of Guilt (“I do all of this for you and you still insist on going out in this weather as well and risk getting ill?”
- Triangulation (“I wonder what your mother would think if she knew you were going out for the third time this week.”)
- Belittlement (“Wearing that does you no favours at all and you will get unwelcome attention.”)
- Character Assassination (“No wonder people say you are a slut when you dress like that. I wish you wouldn’t make it so easy for them.”)
- Haughtiness (“Oh forget it, I am just trying to look after you, but you do what you want as usual, I’m sick of caring. Fuck you.”)
- Absent Silent Treatment.
- Threat (“You’d better stay here otherwise……”)
- Digging Up The Past (“Look what happened last time you went against my advice, (insert once apparently buried one-off mishap)”)
- Revision of History (“Last time you did this, you know what happened don’t you? (Insert adverse fabricated event).
The manipulation that is the false care and concern evidence by The Overwhelming Angel will shift to a different form of manipulation in order to assert control as a consequence of your stand which will either be wounding or more usually Challenge Fuel.
The Overwhelming Angel strives (instinctively) to overwhelm you.
You may be overwhelmed by this kindness.
That is precisely what the narcissism wants.
When you are overwhelmed, you are controlled.
172 thoughts on “The Overwhelming Angel”
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I think this excerpt from Lena Dunham’s autobiography shows the mindset of an Overwhelming Angel.
“What I really wanted, beyond affection, was to feel that she needed me, that she was helpless without her big sister leading her through the world. I took a perverse pleasure in delivering bad news to her—the death of our grandfather, a fire across the street—hoping that her fear would drive her into my arms, would make her trust me.”
That is not overwhelming. That is not nice and not caring. That is patronizing and controlling! 😱
That was by the way the first red flag I noticed with my MMRA. I remember the sentence which made me suspicious: “Isn´t it bedtime for you, Leela?” Excuse me, WTF? I´m a mature adult woman! 😯 I thought “I´m not a 4 year old child, so WTF?” it just felt totally off. Patronizing! 🤔
But back then I had no idea what I could be dealing with. It just felt off!
Bedtime for you but NOT him I guess!?
I have experienced the same…
Of course only for me, not for him. Guess he was busy with other appliances (which was absolutely okay, cause the relationship was non-intimate).
I was in a intimate relationship – marriage, and we never went to bed same time (more then early in the relationship). He went to bed around 2 hours later and it was when I stayed up in hope that we go to bed together that I heard comments as : “isn’t it bedtime” or “it’s late, you should go to sleep”. He was defently molested by my presence as he wanted to interact with other appliances.
Same here, even though I was just a NISS (non-intimate secondary source). In my only intimate relationship with a narcissist we went to bed at different times as well. He was up all night while I was sleeping and slept while I was at work.
Jasmin, interesting you talking about him saying about your bedtime – Lesser did that to me when he lived in my house. No doubt he was wanting to watch the Babestation adverts with the talc & sock = absolutely no finesse! I watched that for a few minutes – just to see what the “attraction” was – it’s like, what? Now, I get it, from learning what narcissism is……
Talc & Sock = EPIC! 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
LFS, if I had known sooner what that thing was doing in my house, I’d gone out and bought some itching powder and added that to the talc LOL – I am such a lovely and thoughtful empath RAOFLAMO
LOL 😂😂 and exchange the sock for a very scratchy wool sock. 😂
Ah, no, I think being ‘sneaky’ has more results…… you’d have to remove absolutely everything in the house that could be used instead of a sock…… ah, no, it has to be itching powder – hands down.
Hahahaha, if I find myself in such a predicament, I will get your ideas for how to respond, this is awesome!!
AV, I have no idea if you can still purchase itching powder, but surely, there are other products that would be just as effective. I know, I cannot believe my mindset sometimes (laughing).
“absolutely no finesse” Love it!! This T&S story just keeps giving the giggles!
Asp emp, Consider also that watching “the babestation” might be a way to have you leaving him alone.
Mine did that frequently. He picked a program he knowed that I didn’t just don’t like, but that annoyed me and laughed loudly (triangulation and provokation) to make sure I get the hell out of there!! Once I was gone, up came the phone!
I think most of narc have done these typ of coments to their partners but the overwhelming angel will say -‘ oh, I just care for you and as you have to wake up early to go to work tomorrow you need to sleep appropriately’.😬
Jasmin, that Lesser is gone – I withdrew sex from him weeks before he resorted to babestation, he didn’t even have his mobile to hand either. Laughing. I was basically saying that the Lesser has no quality, nor finesse to select to opt for something more ‘intellectual’, I was taking the piss out of him RE; babestation, I mean, seriously?! He lived with me for 3 months, it was not agreed with me – he turned up with his clothes in black bags. I should have had the strength to say ‘no’. He couldn’t even have intellectual conversations. There was no connection. He didn’t give me the excitement, I don’t do ‘boring’.
Lessers would be boring, except for that ULA I knew, man he was not boring! Still wish he wasn’t a narc.
Come to think of it, my ex was super boring too. So is TTU. My dad was somewhat interesting, he could at least hold a conversation. Maybe narcs are just boring across the board?
My narc did the opposite, he went to bed well ahead of me and got up early and did his shenanigans, almost entirely away from the house. He has an illness that causes him to be very tired and he knew I am a night owl, I would have laughed had he suggested I go to bed earlier. But, I think more are the way yours and Leela’s were.
I see! I didn’t know about your situation. My mind just went to my own experience!
Good that he is gone! I can’t stand people that I can’t connect with nor have and intellectual conversation with either..
Jasmin, there is a difference in being in : an intimate relationship / a friend / a work colleague – when it comes to ‘connection’ and ‘intellectual conversations’ – you can select the relationship / friend but when it is a work colleague, you can find ways to avoid conversations with them, apart from work only.
There was a guy who asked me out a couple of times but I declined because the ‘intellectual’ conversations were not ‘there’. He was lovely but I just could not even consider it! We’ve lost contact now just because he works with a real, disgusting creep (a real slimy character) that I have not talked about on here yet. The nice guy knows about what this ‘creep’ did to me. I have now established he is of a Lesser / Somatic type because of the way he came across. I did share about what happened with a local women’s group.
Fiberglass insulation is made out of the same stuff as itching powder
Wear gloves.
Violetta, that’s excellent info to share. I currently have a nest of bumble bees using the very same insulation as their bed in my garage….. it’ll add more friction 😉 The nest is accessed from outside so neither ‘party’ is disturbed either way. On that note, I don’t think I’d have a need to go down that route, I’m weaponised now.
AV, yes lessers are generally boring, except for ULA, they are energetic and charming!
Is it the MMRA who was boring? Was he boring in the beginning aswell?
I haven’t yet picked up on the abbreviation TTU? What does it stand for?
If you are an night owl and he was a tired one it suited him better doing the dirt in the morning. We are all different.
In my experience: what they tell you and what they don’t tell you depend on how far they have come with their salami slicing. They sence what you will except and what you will not except (sometimes they fail). Or they say something just to check your temperature and then working from there!
My ex, a mid-ranger, was boring from the get go, as far as a conversation. He was so cute I overlooked it. Pretty charming too. TTU is an acronym for “That Thing Upstairs”. Asp Emp and I came up with it in reference to my mother who I am in ANC with. She is also a mid-ranger, and also boring. TTU is useful for the objectifying so that it is easier on me emotionally to do the ANC. I feel bad using it, at least I feel bad sometimes, but it does really help. I share a house with her, she is upstairs and I am down, pretty much our own units but I have to go up to use the oven. I do a lot of Instant-pot and microwavable stuff. Haha, she has wondered what we eat!!
Jasmin, I apologize, I forgot to read the rest of your comment before sending my last one. Yes, my ex did go by our natural body rhythms for his dirty work. He didn’t care. You are correct in my experience as well about the telling or not telling, what is useful for them to say at any given point etc. And they do “test” a lot also. HG actually has an article I think about how they test two IPSS’s against each other, I found that very interesting. It seems so intentional and yet I believe even lessers do it and they aren’t intentional about many things. The ULA I was involved with did several of the things in that article actually and even at the time I wondered what was up. He was probably testing two of us when it happened. Good grief, they can be such jerks. And, I’m laughing again! Once we know, we hold a lot more of the power!
Violetta – even better than wearing glows, don’t touch the fiberglass insulation!!
Asp Emp – you are absolutely right! It’s my partner and close friends I need to to feel an intellectual connection with. Classmates, colleagues and even utter friends it is enough if they are kind! People thar are rude and/or haughty it is, as you say, best to avoid and keep it professional when it’s necessary to interact with them.
Good that you shared your experience with that Lesser so that others can take precautionary measures. I’m sorry he was naughty towars you.
Jasmin, I agree with your first paragraph RE: connection with your ‘inner circle’. Not everyone are ‘haughty / rude’ are narcissists – it could be other ‘conditions’ (personality ‘disorders’ – I hate that word!). Lesser was more than ‘naughty’ – he was downright abusive, violent physically – he never apologised because I was his “property” (his perception). 5 bruises = 5 fingers = one hand on one arm, the police saw it but no “case” to answer to. Domestic Violence Act came far too late to use. But I recovered. Some people don’t.
“5 bruises = 5 fingers = one hand on one arm, the police saw it but no “case” to answer to.” -That really upset me! 😡🤬
Narcissist or not, if someone is rude and haughty I will avoid that person.
Jasmin, RE: bruises. He had son-in-law and son working there too. Guess what happened then? Forced out of job – accused of money missing (but it was them – my ‘looking into missing monies’ led to me being forced out). I proved it to accountant who apologised but it was far too late. It all happened around same time….. then I end up ensnared in another narcissists ‘den’ at another organisation…..
Thanks for you explanation of TTU! It must be difficult to be in NC with someone you share house with, therefore ANC.
Dearest Asp Emp n A Victor,
All narcs are boring ….. all they do is talk about themselves !
BORRRRR-RRRRRRRIIIIIING !!!!!
🤣
Luv Bubbles xx 😘
I’ve always been a magnet for this type, yuck, yuck!
Alexissmith, you’re a magnet for them but do you like them? Or I mean respond well, or at all, to them? Do you know why they are drawn to you?
Thinking back pre-knowledge, whilst they always made a beeline for me, they never really troubled me and can be very useful. But certainly whilst I was happy to be friends with them I would not have had one as a ‘best-friend’. It was usually the females. post knowledge I’ve definitely had one male of this variety who relentlessly pursued me and I have to say he was the most overwhelming of the overwhelming hahaha
Post knowledge I absolutely can’t bear them! But I recognise they can be very useful but also important to keep your distance.
I really have no idea why they’d be drawn to me. I guess like all empaths we all attract Ns, I’d say the only N I don’t seem to attract is the upper lesser type B. I can think of a few who have been initially drawn to me, but I believe I threaten their control very early on. So maybe it’s just the relentlessness of the overwhelming angels which makes me feel they’re more prevalent in my life, or perhaps we frequent similar places?
Do you have a certain type which is drawn to you AV?
Middle mid range. They are whiny and boring. And hard to spot, though I’m learning more about that all the time. I had a ULA around, scary but that didn’t last long, I believe he failed to control me and I escaped. That is so weird “he failed to control me” just creepy.
Yup nothing more dull than an mmr for sure. They definitely become easier to spot. There have been a couple of mmrs slightly less overwhelming than I’m used to whom I was unsure of at first but thanks to HG’s 20 bullets on top of the amazing descriptions he’s already provided on here I find them easier and easier to spot all the time.
This MMRA was the first one of this type and “my” first mainly Cerebral (dominantly cerebral elite).
Leela, I had to ride somewhere today with TTU and I had offered to help her with a project if she wanted me to. She said “You’re so busy, I just hate to add to your burden.” Good grief. And how do I explain to anyone on the outside the full implications of that one seemingly innocent little comment? I can’t. But I know the meaning. This pisses me off so bad. We spent most of the ride in silence.
They suck! And I noticed that my “wonderful overwhelming angel” had a bad impact on me too. As I had told earlier this Angel with a Dirty Face is a dominantly Cerebral and unfortunately I realized that I do not feel sexually desirable anymore. I struggle! The main reason why I struggle is age. Of course he once made some subtle remark which suggested that I would be too old for him anyway! Boom! Ouch! THAT SAT! Ouchy! 😣🤕
no way! what a ****! Was he younger? and said that, or older?
I make sure I always get in there first and if someone considerably younger than me is trying to hit on me, I will always tell them they’re a bit too old for me hahah that if they’re not on a bmx I’m not interested. hahah ffs
Yes, he was younger. It was TERRIBLE! 😭 I still feel too old to be desirable. 😥 I´m not that old, but I´m not 25 or 30 anymore either. I still look attractive, I´m very athletic, very well groomed and I look younger than I´m really am, but, as said, my birth date tells the naked truth. 🤷♀️
You’re definitely not too old to be desirable. He didn’t think so either, he just said that because they prey on our weakness.
Slightly different situation but a friend of mine was confiding in my that they fear other people talking about them behind their back. He asked how I handle that, it’s quite simple, I just pretend that they don’t hahaha
Just do something similar, either pretend he didn’t say it or didn’t mean it. We know from HG in golden period he will love your age and not in devaluation so none of it is real anyway so just pretend away mwah I imagine you to be sweet 16 xxx
A bit more than sweet 16 😉 but we all know how narcs are: We victims are always “too fat, too thin, too old, too young, too pale, too tan” …you name it.
Well even sweeter then xxx
That’s nonsense Leela. What does age have to do with being desirable? Don’t put yourself down, that’s the narc’s job.
Thank you, SP. That´s indeed the narc´s job. 🤪
You know, thinking back, I even WISH he would have been somatic and flirtatious! I was horrified of that actually, but at least in that case I could have said “No thank you very much” and GOSO. At least I would have felt like a sexually desired woman!
Oh,I like your bmx line! That’s good!
I don’t like younger, more than a couple of years and i have never dated older, except for the summer narc (only 4 years), if that counts. He was by far the most interesting man I’ve ever interacted with romantically so I am considering thinking more that way going forward.
I don’t go for younger either but you have to keep them on their toes. Apparently it keeps the menopause at bay so may be worth considering.
And @leela you can tell the cerebral once men are over the age of 21 they start rotting anyway.
Haha, too late for me on that one! See comments elsewhere about it! Don’t remember the thread. But yes, keep those young ones on their toes!!
Maybe if you went to like an 18 year old or something you could reverse it AV?
Hahaha, gross! That is my son’s age!! And I would never want to reverse it!! I love it! But your comment really made me laugh!!
Hahhahaha that’s good to hear that you love being post menopause. I’m not there yet! Hopefully a few more years, it terrifies me lol so it’s really lovely to read you’re embracing it. Gotta dash my boyfriend is showing me some tricks on his BMX hahaha
Hahahaha!
Dearest lovelies,
I was always attracted to an ‘older’ man …. not because they reminded me of a father figure because I found the young ones to be very immature and didn’t know how to treat a female. The more mature were respectful, had manners and we had similar interests.
Luv Bubbles xx 😘
LFS, “I do not feel sexually desirable anymore. I struggle! The main reason why I struggle is age” – I understand this. I think it is something that a lot of women go through and not just empaths. It’s probably the brain-wiring / biological ‘chemicals’ (hormonal, most likely) contributing to the mindset. It boils down to the psychological and there are groups that ‘assist’ in empowering women not to feel / think the way that ‘society’ perceives ie the slim, young, etc in magazines. It’s brainwashing. BS. You have strengths and life skills that young women do not have – embrace that knowledge and use that ‘power’.
Thank you, Asp. 😘It´s also this idiot prejudice in our country (or is that international?) that women over 40 are kind of already “on the siding”, that men always prefer young women below 35, that the beauty of a woman starts fading at the age of 30. 🤦♀️ You know, you can be athletic, well groomed, well dressed, whatever you name it, but your birth date does not lie. 🙁
LFS, you’re welcome. I think it’s human nature internationally – there may be some cultures where this would not be ‘felt’ because of the culture of that social ‘group / community’. These ‘cultures’ that I refer to would be some community that is not necessarily part of the everyday conundrum ‘world’ ie some too far away (in the middle of ‘nowhere’, some are actually unknown to the rest of the world) to be impacted by the rest of the ‘herd’ of sheep that we come across daily. Some people leave the ‘modern’ world precisely for the reason of the ‘brainwashed’ mindset…… it is something I said without realising why I actually said it to a friend a number of years ago….. now, I know why I said it. I’d like to do this, for a little holiday – not on my own though. Yeah, RE: age thing, keep it in your mind – it’s ‘sheep herd’ mentality but it does not need be yours x
Thanks a lot, Asp! 😘
I think this all is again a typical ACON (means: adult child of a narcissist – for those who are new)-thing 🙄
The ACONs prayer:
It´s because I´m too fat
It´s because I´m too thin
It´s because I´m too old
It´s because I´m not pretty/handsome enough
It´s because I AM NOT GOOD ENOUGH!
LFS, it obviously bothers you that you felt / feel this way. I understand, I really do understand (a little bit of upset here, at the memory, but that will be a fleeting moment). RE: your ‘prayer’ – it is not our (being ACONs) ‘prayer’ – maybe from a narcissist’s perception. Maybe you’d like to re-write an ACONs prayer that describes our strengths and for getting past the abuse that we got? Chin up, lass. We are the ‘cougars’ ! (as BC30 put it).
I never feel good enough! It always can be better! Oh boy! 🤦♀️ When I was a child I was never good enough – no matter what: It was not perfect and so, it could be even better.
LFS, I know and understand. That’s why I have mentioned more than once on this blog – I’ll repeat it – it’s about reassurance, trust, that you will not be let down. Again. It’s normal and only people like you, me and some others who have experienced those thoughts / feelings as ACONs will comprehend it. No matter what, it’s reassurance. It’s also ‘fear’ of being made to feel / think like that again. It’s not something that can just be ‘brushed under’ the carpet and forget about. We can learn to recognise when we are feeling like that again and why, as long as we can try our best to manage it, at the time, if possible. We are good enough, we always were!
It is just TERRIBLE to have a Cluster B parent 🙁
LFS, yes it is. It does a lot of damage. 🙂
It’s all in your mind, love. You are desirable, you just don’t believe it. But you can!
Come join the cougar club, the Cubs are tasty 😋 and the water is nice!😉
That sounds good! 🥂🥤🥳
Cheers! 🍻
BC30, “the cougar club, the Cubs are tasty” LOL. Good words of empowerment that you gave Leela, good of you 🙂
This is funny!
Some guys seriously don’t care. They think older woman have special skills, and you won’t give them the constant insecure verbal crap college girls do, when they try to conduct their relationships according to the Gospel of Cosmo.
Violetta, yes, the older ladies have skills that the younger girls do not have. We all were ‘young / college girls’ at one time. The guys that seriously do not care are most likely to be narcissists, as normals / empaths would not be like that.
Laughing…. “Gospel of Comso” – personally, I wouldn’t even use that mag as toilet paper!!! 😉
Actually, a number of college guys seem to go after older women. It’s not even looking for a Sugar Mama, cause they drive better cars than the women they’re hitting on. I think they’ve just had it up to here with the Campus Cosmo Cuties’ verbal games. Also, they figure if an older woman is willing to go out with them at all, she’ll probably bang them.
So the old guys try to date young, and the young guys try to date old, and meanwhile, Nature laughs at us all.
Violetta, the young guys do it because they know the ‘cougars’ have the experience and know what men enjoy….. but, once a young guy has ‘tasted’ the expertise of a ‘cougar’, they’ll have gained experience for the younger lasses. I was referred as a ‘MILF’ once by a kid, actually he was 25 (15 years my junior) and I gracefully turned him down, horny little bugger. Laughing.
I think sometimes an older woman is happy to have the company and educate a young man rather than sleep with him, it’s the young man who’d want to get it off with her.
Age is not always a factor. It’s just a number.
Dearest leelasfuelstinks,
Here in Australia, the under 50’s can only have the covid Pfizer vaccination and the over 50’s can only have the AstraZeneca vaccine
You really don’t need a birth certificate now or even Botox for that matter ….. one can now roughly tell how old you are by jab you’ve had 😂
Talk about age discrimination !
Also, as long as males have a penis n females have a vagina, they will always be an attraction no matter what age you are, you just have to put yourself out there ! I never worry about my age … what for ? Enjoy life ! Just not with a narc! 😂
Luv Bubbles xx 😘
Bubbles, laughing. You are so right about the Covid jabs RE: age. Age discrimination indeed! LOL in relation to males / females – TMI ! 😉
Leela, as you wrote, you don’t FEEL sexually desirable anymore, and it is probably not true (that you’re not), at all !
Look, do you understand French at all? If you do, I can give you the references of a series of radio programmes about the menopause (you are talking of ageing), which will certainly make you feel much better about your age and ageing! And the sexual thing surrounding this.
F**k those dickheads who dare pass comments about your age! Just laugh out loud into their faces, turn your back and leave – still laughing!
You´re right Fiddleress! Thank you very much. My French is not so good but those men who make bad comments about women 40 plus are mostly those who cannot “afford” to do that 😉 Mr. Loser and Mr. Unattractive who think they can (still) get the young sexy chicks while they get one rejection after the other 😉 😂
You are good just as you are Leela!
Just want to add that the somatic will have feel as if you are the sexiest ever walked on 🌎 but once the devaluation starts it your looks that will be mainly attacked!
Oh yes, Jasmin! I know that very well. I´m the daughter of a Somatic (Upper Mid Ranger) 🙁 Indeed, my dad, aka Patri Narc, attacked my and moms looks all the time. There was always something which was not good enough, which had to be criticized. 🙄
“who think they can (still) get the young sexy chicks”
😂😂😂 So true!
That was an ongoing discussion on the dating site I was on last summer, all these guys looking for women 20-30 years their junior, it was pathetic. The women, for the most part, wanted nothing to do with them, preferring a man closer to their age to live their life with, not give geriatric care to in a few years. But the guys couldn’t help themselves apparently. Probably all narcissists.
Haha! Very true. Only, let’s reverse the wording to “sexy young chicks” as opposed to “sexy older chicks”. “Older sexy chicks” is more difficult to consider as the reverse of “young sexy chicks”. Sexy women of all ages, unite! 🙂
Hm, this is an interesting comment. My initial reaction to it was, no, that’s not what mine did. But on second thought, he actually did, just in a very subtle, yet effective, manner. With him it was never a comment about my appearance that was negative, save the tummy one. With him it was the subtle triangulations, the secrets and the sex rejection. Largely unspoken but just as effective at making me question, not my desirability so much but my standing with him, my standing within the relationship. Once a midwife suggested I make a list of ways my husband could support me before, during and after our child’s birth. I realized I didn’t even know what “support” meant, from a husband to a wife. This was our last child and I had been in devaluation for many years. When I realized that other women could write such a list, I realized even more there were big problems. And I was too embarrassed to ask the midwife what it meant. I am just beginning to understand what it might mean. I find this so sad.
My ex lied about his age in his profile to reach younger chicks! I think it is highly common for somatic and elite to do so when they getting over 30.
What is sexy? Just a body that does look like the norm?
What about intelligence, confidence, humour and so on?
If it is just about ‘looks’ then the younger chicks are undeniable sexier. Yes, their are women in their 50’s that are in very good shape but they are fewer in number and even in good shape skin, hair, breast ect. will be affected. Sorry, but that’s just way it is and everyone (who doesn’t die young) ages!
However, those who see sexyness in a character, it does not fade with the age!
I entered a dating app ones but I felt as if I was in HM.com looking for pants! Size M, 82 cm leg length, polyester, made in Bangladesh!🤣
We aren’t just toasters!
AV, I’m sorry you didn’t get any suppot and that you couldn’t know what it was. It is so sad.
Yes triangulation, secrets (infidelity?) and rejection of sex are all way of ‘saying’ that you are not attractive. I still think that negative comments about appearance are highly common with somatic and some elites.
I had the comments raining over me but as long as my body is strong and functional I don’t care!
Hi Jasmin,
I think sexy is a mind-set. I’ve always felt I was sexy, not to all men, and not to all men all the time, but I feel sexy within myself no matter what anyone else thinks. It’s part of being human, for me. I also feel strong, intelligent and lovable, though this is one I struggle with sometimes, independent etc. And nowhere is any of this attached to my looks but rather has more to do with how I take care of myself and present myself. I enjoy physical activity which keeps me strong, I love to learn which plays to my intellect, I have positive relationships with people who say they love me, and I enjoy sex etc. It’s just part of the package.
My dad did sexualize women also so from the beginning, what I knew from men regarding women and their “role” is that men regard us as beautiful and sexual. Again, not every man will think about every woman this way but both my dad and my ex told me that every woman gets at least one look, many two, some more and a few many. So this is the message I’ve always had in my mind. Maybe it’s intended to be that way, for the propagation of humans. Haha, if women had to initiate pursuit, we might die out!
My dad didn’t do it well, there was little to nothing done for my intellectual expansion, beyond schooling, no encouragement etc. Nor any for pursuit of a career. So I feel I am a bit lop-sided. This message from him is a difficult one to shake at times when there should be no thought of it, like in a professional setting. It is not that I act sexually, but it is difficult for me to not be a bit uptight until I know them fairly well because I don’t want them to think of me that way. I also believe it’s the reason I have not had male friends, unless they were friends of my significant others’. So in these ways it has been hindering.
As to age, my daughter worked for an old folks home for a number of years and there is quite a bit of interest and as much activity sexually as they can manage, that drive/desire never goes away. Also, there was a time in recent memory when the senior population in the US held the record, so to speak, for the highest rate of STD transmission of all the age groups. Something is going on there! Haha!
In case anyone is wondering, I am nowhere near an old folks home age but am just giving info regarding that. We disagree that younger means undeniably sexier, it is the case many times but I would not go so far as undeniably. But that’s okay, there are likely opinions all over the place on that. Yes, there was a lot of infidelity on my ex’s part, some on my father’s part. You took a very positive approach to the criticism, that has got to be absolutely horrible. I am glad that you came out of it well and are here now! 🙂
Sexy is definitely a mindset. I didn’t feel sexy when I was younger at all. I feel much more sexy now. I was much more of a nerd. I have always had a thirst for knowledge.
For my father, my education was top priority. It was the only thing that was important to him. He couldn’t stress it enough. We would even work on things together. My father never commented on my looks.
With my mom she would tell me that I was smart and beautiful. She would call me her little engineer. She would also tell me if you got it flaunt it.
I always felt beautiful just not necessarily sexy. If that makes sense.
Leigh, you were so lucky! No one expressed that they believed in me or encouraged me or told me what I looked like. That isn’t intended as a pity party, it’s just a fact. I am becoming more angry about this the more I realize just how much it has affected me. I do not know how it will be resolved right now. I also have always had a thirst for knowledge, loved school, earned excellent grades and then didn’t do anything with that because I had zero guidance or support and had been effectively brainwashed that women didn’t need to pursue education beyond high school etc. Very angry right now.
I also ‘feel’ sexier today than I ever have and I only wish I could meet a nice non narcissist too enjoy it with.
Remember my dad was a narcissist so with every golden period there’s devaluation and disengagement. Yes, when my dad was around he stressed the importance of education. Often he wasn’t around. He was at the bar. Then he left a when I was 14, 2 days before Christmas.
I met my husband 6 months later and education was no longer important. I graduated high school and went to college for 3 weeks and dropped out. I had no guidance either after my dad left. I didn’t see him again until I was 19.
I do agree I was lucky though. I don’t feel that same feeling of not being good enough like some of the other empaths feel.
Oh yes, my dad was at work or drunk until i was 15. Once he sobered up he still didn’t have time for anyone.
I have felt good enough in many ways, but the least was what I deserved and should have waited for in a husband. The education was the second least “good enough”. In a way maybe it was first because had I done that, maybe I would’ve valued myself enough to choose a man who did. But I think the addiction still would’ve been as strong. I am now considering adding to my education but, as with much else, I don’t know that it’s worth it anymore.
Oh yes, education is a little bit of a sore spot for me too. Sometimes I wish I would have furthered my education. I still think about going back now. If I would have continued my education, I may have left my husband. He doesn’t even have a high school diploma. If that happened, I wouldn’t have my children so I don’t like to think about it too much. I believe I’m exactly where I should be at this point in my life.
The bright spot for me is that my kids were raised with an eye toward college or their future in some regard anyway and if any of my girls was ever without a spouse, they would be just fine. That is a silver lining I have to keep in front of me though it still makes me emotional that my parents didn’t do this for me. And you are right, had things been different, I might not have the kids I do and they are awesome, even with their struggles. Thank you for that reminder!
Leigh
It makes sense to me. Both beautiful and sexy are open to interpretation. Sexy being more of an attitude than a visual descriptor (in my view).
That’s it, exactly! Thank you!
Dearest A Victor,
Our dear ol friend who’s 90, can still ‘stand’ for a lady. He’d luv to do the Kizomba one last time before he kicks the bucket. Haha
Apparently there’s a lot of shenanigans going on in his age care facility, he’s told us he can hear all the ‘moose calls’ including the staff doing extracurricular activities in the bingo balls room haha
I read the reason STD’s are higher in seniors is because in a long term relationship we generally have sex ‘a la naturale’. All of a sudden after 20 odd years or more of being a couple, mid life crises sets in, so they either decide to part ways or start looking for a bit of slap n tickle on the side. Surprisingly, they’re all of the same mindset and think everyone out there is each other’s first, so they keep going ‘a la naturale’.
A lot of older males don’t like the idea of ‘free willy’ being suffocated and riding bare back is all they know. 🍆
Voila …STD’s !
Luv Bubbles xx 😘
Oh no Leela! Don’t give him that power! He’s the loser, not you! I’m sure I’m older than you and I’m sexy as all get out! It’s not about age, it’s about knowing it. I don’t flaunt anything, it’s not about that either. But as Leigh said yesterday, we are some bad ass women, we’ve survived a trip to hell and back, and any man worth his snuff would be proud to be with us and would enjoy sex with us! Don’t let that creep stay in your head! You are a beautiful, desirable woman!
Thank you very much, A Victor! 🤗😘 Yes, we are bad ass women! Some of us survived even more than once narcissistic abuse! And we´re still standing! 💪 Age is indeed just a number. And this maniac only had to put me down to assert control in a malign way and in order to feel better. He prefers the Madonna-type of women who serve him 24/7 and that´s definitely, absolutely, 100 % NOT me! 😉 😂
Sexy is soooo a mindset NA, take for example James Nesbit whom I could drool over all day long. If you study his features there is nothing particularly handsome or beautiful about him, he’s fairly average looking, but my god does the man have sex appeal! He has the naughtiest eyes I’ve ever seen and without a doubt I would nit be able to resist the man. Try as I might, it’s all in the mind and you can turn on or off that appeal. It truly is a state of mind.
Alexissmith, I agree, James Spader is not sexy to look at but good grief, to me, very sexy! My ex was much better looking and much less “sexy” in the way I think of it now. It has a lot to do with their confidence, for me at least. And it is individual to each person I think also.
That’s how I feel about Nicholas Cage, especially in Face Off. He’s not good looking at all but sexy as hell in that movie!
OMG, Leigh! I love, love, love this movie <3 I thought Nicholas Cage was sexy as hell in it as well 😉 The twists and turns were brilliant. I think I'm going to watch it again!
Barry Humphrey will be pleased he shuffled off the mortal coil some time ago on this basis.
Haha, HG 😛 Barry Humphrey was never my cup of tea, and neither was Dame Edna Everage 😉
But each to their own <3
LOL, think we’re talking about two different people … Barry Humphries is still alive!
Indeed I meant to write Barry Norman but my inner cross dresser took me elsewhere.
Haha, HG, you’re funny 🙂
LOL to your inner cross dresser. I’m sure you’d look fabulous <3
HG, I note with interest “my inner cross dresser” – could indicate a different perception of what some people may view it as.
I’m sure you’d look fetching in a dress in any case 😉
AspEmp, can you explain? What is this perception you speak of?
Kind regards,
Confused 😉
LET, I speak of HG ‘wearing’ one of his chosen at the moment ‘cloaks’ yet he is not specifically “cross-dressing” in the sense (perception) that people may view the words “cross-dressing” to mean. For example, he can adopt a voice when he is doing one of his many videos – he is not cross-dressing but doing what he is good at – putting on a ‘mask’ as appropriate for the ‘moment’ in time. Just like I tend to put on a ‘facade’ when I leave my ‘sanctuary’ (house) = “inner cross dresser’.
Ah,, I see. Makes perfect sense now that you say that. Cross dressing as in changing character, or being a chameleon, or a shape shifter!
It reminds me of the article where HG describes selecting the correct emotion, or whatever is required, and adapting for the occasion. That could be considered a changing of appearances I guess. But it is being done by an internal mechanism, rather than an external one.
OK. I think I’ve pondered enough on that.
I’ll accept HG dresses for the occasion, whatever the occasion might be … and by the looks of things leaves the external cross dressing to others 😉
LET, yes, what you have said is probably more instinctual more than consciously done. On the rare occasion, I believe it can be done consciously especially when outside the ‘sanctuary’ if you like.
RE: external cross dressing – yes I think so too. LOL.
Yes, he is in several of his older movies! Not so much any more but, he had a good run.
I loved him in Moonstruck too!
Valley Girl was the first movie I remember him in, I was hooked after that. I think he’s going on my next 20 Bullets, he’s had some narc typical things, money issues, relationship issues etc. I’m kind of wondering about George Clooney now too, he’s another favorite.
Oh yes, George Clooney. Very distinguished! I love Danny Ocean ♥♥♥
Yep, me too!!
Omg Moonstruck with Cher. I adore that movie. I visited the place in Brooklyn where they shot the movie, the bakery where he works. “La luna! La bella luna!”
I love that movie too! “Snap out of it.”
Definitely one of my favorites!
Just have to post one of my favourite scenes:
https://youtu.be/GP9MrT31unE
Great scene! I think I’m gonna have to watch the movie again too!
Oh yes, that is a great scene!
“Indeed I meant to write Barry Norman but my inner cross dresser took me elsewhere”
OH MY GOD!! NOOOO!!!!!
Spader used to be so pretty…in pink….
Speaking of which, Blacklist has been switched to Wednesdays.
Haha, yes, pretty in pink! Very good!
LFS, he doesn’t know what he’s missing. 50 is the new 30! That’s right, I said it! Its his loss. You ARE enough!!! Actually, truth be told, he couldn’t handle you!
Leigh, you are 100 % right. He coudn´t. My kind is very difficult to control, only Upper Mid Range and above are capable to control us maybe. And yes, 40 and 50 are the new 30 😉 💪 You can be sexy, attractive and pretty at ANY age.
Wait, do we know if Nicholas Cage is a narcissist?!
Poor James Spader and Keanu Reeves, between me you, and SweetP there’s not much left to go around. 😂
What we do know is that This a snakeskin jacket! And for me it’s a symbol of my individuality, and my belief… in personal freedom.
Hahaha!!
Now I gotta watch. ❤️🔥🍿
I’ve never seen HG’s buns on Insta. Going on Insta makes me sad because I see SM, I know what’s coming, and she looks like my friend Marianne. Surely @WhoCares is right about the stampede to the Insta.
Since LET and I both find him sexy, I’d say he’s probably a narcissist, lol!
Hahah, Leigh, no doubt! That could be a good predictor for future reference 😉
Most definitely!
🤣🤣🤣😭😭😭🥲🥲🥲
Hey, I thought I had dibs on James!! Haha!!
BC30, thanks for tagging me here. It’s so inspiring to wake up and imagine HG cross dressing first thing in the morning!!
Let me quash that thought for you. I do not.
You can’t control my thoughts.
No, but I can control your comments.
Hahaha (faking).
No but seriously now, HG. Would that be so bad? Masculinity is a fragile concept, you know? I know this comment may not see the light of day.
It is not something that has any requirement with regard to what I do and indeed would hamper certain professional actions, I need to be able to move freely and quickly in certain situations.
You censored my previous comment! Viva la revolución! Freedom of thought and speech!!!
I know I did. Because I can although I rarely do, but you needed to feel the smack of firm governance, now go and have a little revolution for ten minutes and then it is bath time and an early night for you young lady, all this talk of liberty and freedom of thought, it only brings trouble in the end you know.
Narcissists can and do manipulate other people’s thoughts, I assume it would be the ultimate power to actually be able to control them. Is it frustrating to have this limitation? Or is it something that most narcissists would not think about?
Indeed it can be done and often is It was not something that was feasible on this occasion with regard to SP, so I took an alternative route. She has a sense of humour so she will have found my response more entertaining than troubling. I recognise she has some spark.
Thank you for the reply. I didn’t think there was any issue between you and SP, you seem to understand each other. It was just a good opportunity to ask the question.
He’s NOT a Sweet Transvestite..
🚫
https://cdn.prod.www.spiegel.de/images/f24e75bc-0001-0004-0000-000000723585_w1200_r1.33_fpx32.32_fpy45.jpg
Sigh….
There’s a bunch of man eaters out here!
@violetta
We’ve all read sex and the narcissist…
There’s still hope that HG might be willing to do anything during the golden period
Even sport a cheeky male thong
No.
Haha, @Witch, and a “cheeky male thong” would not hinder any movement during professional activities…
Giggling way too much right now…
That’s enough underwear related tomfoolery. I’d ask you all about your underwear but it’s be pointless as I know you shameless hussies don’t bother wearing any!
Oh dear @ Witch, the hand of firm governance has been lowered on us now.
I’ve never been called a shameless hussie before…
Heading over to Instagram now for a peek there…
OMG @Violetta that is one SEXY sweet transvestite!
I’m so happy midnight screenings will up and running again soon.
HG: “I need to be able to move freely and quickly in certain situations.”
Well there goes the Spanx and any chance of successful cross dressing then.
BC30:
Giles from Buffy played Frank N. Furter on stage. If you haven’t checked out footage (on yt, I think), definitely do so.
I always liked Giles and Spike better than Angel, Riley, etc.
HG that’s a shame
You said you’re athletic so one of your best physical assets is probably your bum…
Get it out for the girls!
My posterior can be seen on Instagram so as usual I’m ahead of you.
“My posterior can be seen on Instagram so as usual I’m ahead of you.”
* Suddenly HG’s Instagram feed gets an influx of hits. *
“ That’s enough underwear related tomfoolery. I’d ask you all about your underwear but it’s be pointless as I know you shameless hussies don’t bother wearing any!”
Are you sure your vampiric self doesn’t want to know about my period panties?
No.
Laughing……. “you told the narcissist you are going next door for a glass of wine, not entered a war-torn part of Syria”….brilliant.
The narcissists of my past were never really the type to persistently present the facade of being ‘an overwhelming angel’.
The only times when it appeared they asked if I was ok was in the company of other people – if it were me and only the narcissist present, nothing would have been said, outside ‘The Golden Period’.
By ‘discounting’ the school of narcissists as listed in this article, I can assume that the majority of the narcissists at work were Upper Mid-Range, and quite possibly Upper Lesser. Obviously, no Greaters. Mother definitely not a Mid-Range. Not that I am particularly interested, nor bovvered. It’s all in the past.
Do you think they are drawn to very independent people? You are correct you cannot even pinpoint when it started to go wrong. One thing merges into another…
On holiday with my family he actually told them he was worried about all the meds I am taking. First I hear of it is from my sister. All I take is something for heartburn! ‘He is just worried about you.’ she says.
In truth I can relate to this and to other descriptions also. I guess there will be crossover. Then again does the individual change the dynamics to an extent?
The narcissist is drawn to those who cater to the Prime Aims and demonstrate the requisite empathic, class and special traits.
I understand HG. He told me he was drawn to me because I am warm and friendly.
That is what his narcissism tells him to say because that would (usually) seem like valid reasons in “your world” to be drawn to somebody. If his narcissism misfired and caused him to say “I am drawn to you because I want your fuel and you look like you will give me lots of it, you look easy to control, you are someone who has many character traits I can acquire and a host of residual benefits I can commandeer” you would reject him!
So so very true HG – I would have run a mile had he said that. You are reminding me of the person I used to be – I do not recognise myself anymore – I thank you sincerely for all your work 🙂
Psychologyandworldaffairs.
Hello and welcome.
You may want to check out HG’s articles Crazed and Muddy Hell in relation to your comment. You can locate them by using the search bar.
Thank you NarcAngel – I will do that :))