Spanked

SPANKED

The Ultra Narcissist met his victim in a club.

She agreed to head home with him.

How did they both get what they wanted and needed?

Understand the power dynamic between the two.


Spanked


 

125 thoughts on “Spanked

  1. Survived a Sociopath says:

    I entered two comments days ago and they still have not shown up. How long does it take for comments to get approved on here?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Read the rules.

  2. Chihuahuamum says:

    We decided to not spank our kids. I don’t believe in hitting to discapline, but it’s a personal choice as a parent.
    One funny memory as a child was my mother getting angry at my brother and I. She was chasing us with a wooden spoon and broke it on my brother. It didn’t hurt and we burst out laughing. This made her fly into a rage. We ran into the bedroom and I remember her not knowing what to do she was so flustered. After that we never got spankings as we were getting older.

    1. Witch says:

      My mum used to chase us with the wooden spoon as well
      I remember when she thought I broke something of hers, which I didn’t (wouldn’t surprise me if it was my narcissist sister letting me be blamed for it) I was jumping from one sofa to the next trying to avoid the licks from the wooden spoon. She also stopped doing that as we got older, minus 2 occasions where she slapped me across the face as a teenager

      1. Chihuahuamum says:

        Hi Witch…I dreaded spankings moreso from humiliation. I’ve never hit my kids ever. Sorry your mum slapped you that’s so degrading.

  3. Chihuahuamum says:

    Re the topic of spanking…i remember as a child we would go camping with my dad’s friends and their families and friends. This one friend of his who was always a bachelor had a girlfriend at the time. She reminded me of the singer Blonde. She had to always look perfect and have her hair done and makeup just so. She was a bit of a snob. I have no idea why she was with him because he was a rough around the edges type guy. One evening she had too much to drink and was acting so annoying. I was embaressed for her and I was very young at the time around 9 years old. It was very alarming because she was usually prim and proper. She made a complete spectacle of herself. He had had enough and spanked her in front of everyone. She was so upset and humiliated. I think they broke up after that. I was a child at the time, but I renember feeling so sad for her. She was overbearing, but what he did was abusive physically and emotionally. He was a lifelong family friend of my dad’s and my grandparents. He never married and I can see why. He was a narcissist.

    1. MP says:

      Cmum, Wow I agree, he sounds like a total narcissist!

      1. Chihuahuamum says:

        Hi MP…It’s funny how as a child your limited knowledge makes the world around you so different. This man was thought of as a harmless good time friend who was always at family gatherings and celebrations. He many times sat at my grandparents kitchen table for hours shooting the breeze. He was my grandpas drinking buddy. His girlfriends never stuck around for long. As an adult and tudorite i can now see him for what he was. He was what i suspect a narcissist.
        To openly spank a woman in a nonconsentual way with an audience is physical abuse. I remember the next morning the camping party was quiet and there hung a thick awkwardness among everyone. If i remember that was the day we all packed up and left. She wouldn’t come out of the trailer out of sheer humiliation. When she did her eyes were puffy from crying. I think she had drove with him so possibly she couldn’t leave. She had a son about my age and thank god he wasn’t there to witness it. As a female i remember feeling a sense of deep shame over the whole thing. I realized it wasn’t out of fun or a joke. He was humuliating her physically around their friends ughhh awful memory. It is good to know now many years later what he was.

        1. MP says:

          Hi CM, I agree with you how amazing it can be when things come to life in a different way after our awareness about narcissism. I had many experiences like that too. Things that didn’t make sense but I just ignored I then remember and it makes complete sense now. I feel bad about the woman, hopefully she was able to be in healthy relationships after that, especially for her son’s sake. I also see how you already had strong empathy at that age feeling shame for her as a fellow woman.

          1. Chihuahuamum says:

            Hi MP…I did empathize with her, but at the same time my mum’s opinion was gospel and i had wondered if her behavior maybe deserved it. In my heart i knew it was wrong, but as a child you don’t think things through as far as what that makes the people around you. This man was just an accepted part of the family. If i met him now i’d have nothing but disgust for him.
            My mum’s opinions are nothing to me in fact whatever she’s in support of i automatically question because i more than likely wouldn’t agree.

    2. JB says:

      What a weird thing to do, and especially in front of everybody! This bloke was a lifelong friend of your dad’s..what did your dad say about it all, Chihuahuamum?

      1. Chihuahuamum says:

        Hi JB…i replied, but i’m not sure it went through. I’ll wait before sending again.

        1. JB says:

          Yeah don’t think it went through, Cmum!

      2. Chihuahuamum says:

        Hi JB…I posted a reply, but i don’t think it went through. Basically my dad had sketchy friends. His reaction i dkn’t remember, but given his sadistic side i suspect he would’ve laughed and said she deserved it. He didn’t and probably still doesn’t have respect for women. He does treat me well as an adult. Maybe he’s changed a bit over the years i’m not sure.
        This friend of his was a womanizer and loved to drink. I don’t think he ever married. He was a fixture in our family and always there for family celebrations or visiting. Looking back what he did to that woman was disgusting. He’s lucky she didn’t press charges. This was back in the mid 80s id say so it was a lot different.

        1. JB says:

          Cmum, it is disgusting. Induced more of a strong response in me than if you had told me that he had punched her, for some reason. Obviously both are completely unacceptable, but this is just so degrading. I guess re. pressing charges it would have been hard to prove anything ever happened, irrespective of era, unless the others had been prepared to say what they saw..

          1. Chihuahuamum says:

            Hi JB…I know i look at it as i would rape. It was against her will AND done in front of others. Much of it i don’t remember given my age at the time, but i do remember the women in the group having mixed feelings. My narc mother didn’t feel much sympathy for her and thought she deserved it for making a spectle of herself and getting so drunk. There was an awkward feeling and she hid in the trailer for the rest of the evening and next morning until everyone packed up and left the campground. Im pretty sure they broke up after. I had run into her in later years, but she never let on she knew me or possibly forgot who i was. I found it odd how she hooked up with him because she was so different. He was a drinker and womanizer sort while she was peticular and i’d say somatic in nature. She was about perfection and came off as a snob. I remember the other mums talking about her behind her back saying she wasn’t the camping type and needed her hair curler and makeup along with a heated shower.
            It was meant to degrade her and a corrective devalument for showing him up in front of everyone.

          2. A Victor says:

            I agree JB, just disgusting. That would’ve been so strange to see happen, like one of those things your eyes see but your brain rejects at first, especially as a child.

            Chihauhaumum, I hope that you had someone to talk to about it. That sense of shame and no one helping that woman would’ve been so awful for a child to deal with, not to mention confusing like, why isn’t anyone stopping this? Makes me shudder. I have read it multiple times and the full impact finally hit me tonight.

        2. JB says:

          Oh God, Cmum, it makes me feel really riled, reading that the other women had mixed feelings about it! How can a woman stand by and watch another woman endure that without being repulsed by the whole spectacle? I completely agree with you about it being on a par with rape. There is just something about it that disgusts me, totally disgusts me.

          I agree with you too, AV. It makes you shudder. And the idea that you were watching that, Cmum, as a child, potentially confused and not knowing what was going on..my whole body is fighting against that..just want to go back in time and rescue you! I have no idea why this particular incident gets to me so much, but it does xx

          1. Chihuahuamum says:

            Hi JB… Thank you although i never really reflected as much on it than i am now. I do think our past moulds us in different ways. Looking back many of those women were questionable. I say this because i look back at the types of men they were with and wonder how they had respect for them or stayed with them. Many of the men were sexist and had little respect for women or at least that’s how it looks. I didn’t know them first hand. I did see how they drank and were crude.
            I think i compartmentalized a lot of what i had seen, but also filtered out maybe what i didn’t fully understand.
            I never liked men that were gruff and obnoxious. I think it helped me avoid those types, which was a good thing!
            I hope she found a man that treated her right, but she may have had issues of her own. Her son was around my age and was a nice kid.
            I can see why narcissists are formed. When you witness a lot of toxicity and are abused compartmentalization is your self preservation. I think narcissists are the ultimate compartmentalists. They can hide memories well and reinvent themselves to be someone else.

          2. JB says:

            Cmum, I’m with you on the not liking gruff men! Think I would run a mile around someone like that!

  4. TheVimtoSlut says:

    It’s been fucking ages since I’ve had a good OTK. Years.

    The picture is seriously hot and yes, I have listened to ‘spanked.

    I’m not listening again though, that would seriously wind me up! 🙂

  5. Chihuahuamum says:

    One day ill read this. Too many triggers right now. The narc likes to roll play. I do enjoy it although it is a tactic for control. Sex is a powerful tool to seduce. Im able to detach somewhat from this. I understand the potency of it now. Were very similiar sexually or maybe thats the mirroring lol The early stages were very sexually motivated. What i loved is the ability to be myself no inhibitions. This has been freeing, but i also realize it’s not authentic. It’s a mix of control, manipulation and needs. I’ve learned to be less affected by it. Before i attached the L word to sex now i no longer do. I realize there is no authentic love with him and i don’t take it to heart because i understand he’s not capable of this. There’s no longer the fantasy aspect attached. No pipe dreams. It’s not as built up and i feel way more grounded and safe with the reality of it.The potency is gone and it feels good in saying that.

    1. SParham says:

      Detachment and not connecting the L word, I’ve done the same 👍🏼👍🏼
      I heard HG say that it’s mechanical and I believe it to be true.

      1. A Victor says:

        I could not separate the L word which made it more painful got my heart. And more confusing. It was so mechanical, that’s what was so confusing, and hurtful, no actual emotion or connection or even enjoyment, he wasn’t capable of those things but I didn’t know it yet.

  6. lickemtomorrow says:

    In this case the victim doesn’t need to be an empath, if we go by the description.

    She might be.

    The same power dynamic could be applied between narcissists, could it not?

    Either way, he doesn’t really look like he’s going to give her a good spanking.

    1. Asp Emp says:

      LET, good to read your perception on this. Made me giggle though 🙂

    2. A Victor says:

      This picture and audio brought out strong emotions in me for the reason of having been “spanked” brutally as a child and also my sister experienced this at the hand of a boyfriend, she did not want it, as this girl apparently does. It was a horrible thing to go through, getting her away from this man. The audio did bring home for me the cold heartedness of the narcissist though, in a very real and ugly manner. Your final sentence would hinge on your definition of “good”.

      1. Eternity says:

        A Victor, I have listened to this audio myself and found it rather interesting. It did sound mutual between both parties . I can understand why you felt this way it brought back memories to you as child. I am so sorry for what you went through it must have been devastating. I encourage you not to listen to it if it disturbs you.

        1. A Victor says:

          Thank you Eternity. I have listened a second time and didn’t find it as horrible. It really displayed to me the cold heartedness of the narcissist. Though there were not sexual overtones when I was a child, that situation and this one both display the utter lack of empathy toward the victim. A person with empathy would possibly see the young woman as a previous victim of abuse and, rather than exploit that for fuel as a narc would, would possibly be more prone to want to help her come to terms with her past. She may still want this even then, I have no idea how such a thing would work, but I can’t see someone with empathy just exploiting her in this way. Thank you for your view, reading the various ways people think about this do help me to process it.

          1. Eternity says:

            A Victor,
            I definitely see your point. I have never just gone home with someone I just met. In terms of HG’s victim it was something she wanted the Addiction and dominance
            pulled her into that direction. I can understand why she did that .
            It is always a pleasure talking with you A Victor .

          2. A Victor says:

            I used to go home with someone, or take them home, back between my marriages. I always believed I was in control of those situations and never worried, haha! It wasn’t frequent but it was dangerous, you never know what you’ll end up with! There must have been some way he knew she wanted this, when I did this it was never brought up, maybe I never met a narc in those instances. Or maybe they can pick up on what we’ll like thus more fuel for them.

            It is always a pleasure talking with you too Eternity!

          3. Eternity says:

            A Victor , that was very brave and daring of you .I was faithful and never cheated in my 24 years of marriage. See you did do dangerous things and FEAR didn’t take over . Perfect example!
            They can definitely sniff us out.

          4. A Victor says:

            Well, I only cheated with one person, the rest were between husbands. Lol, I feel the need to clarify, like the mom in Mamma Mia, “And I didn’t sleep with hundreds of men…” or something to that effect. Yes, no fear because I was too naive to know better! 🙂

          5. Eternity says:

            It’s OK A Victor no need to clarify. Hey no one is perfect. Besides it happened maybe even for the best .

          6. A Victor says:

            Yes, I learned a lot from it.

          7. Eternity says:

            You definitely have A Victor. Thanks God we were brought here.

      2. lickemtomorrow says:

        I imagine in the context of a consensual spanking, the hand might come back further and look to be getting ready to give a good hard ‘smack’, AV. For the purposes of the article that’s what I would call a ‘good’ spanking.

        As a child, no spanking is a good spanking 🙁 Nor as an adult in any kind of non-consensual situation, which I’m guessing was your sister’s experience. Good to know she finally got away from him. I’m still trying to get my head around those who enjoy this king of thing in a consensual manner. And yet I can see how it might be alluring to some. Especially in the context of the narcissistic relationship. All the ingredients would need to be there in order to succumb to this, but a submissive empath (e.g. CoD) combined with a dominant narcissist (aren’t they all?) could fit the bill.

        I may need to listen to the audio again.

        1. lickemtomorrow says:

          *kind (ugh)

        2. A Victor says:

          Oh haha, yes, he looks like it will be a tap, in the photo, I see what you mean. When listening, it is a ‘good’ spanking per your definition.

          I have listened again, a couple of weeks ago, and it didn’t disturb me as much, now it’s more interesting from the perspective that this is what narcissists will do if it’s what is required by the partner, for the best extraction of the prime aims in the Golden Period. And the narcissist has no care one way or the other, although he was drawn to her, he could see she offered the prime aims. So to best obtain them from her, this is what he ‘had’ to do. It also makes me wonder if there are a lot of empaths for whom this is true since there was clearly an element of having practiced it. The Dark Cupid series gives many other examples of extracting in different ways so I guess we’re all a bit different, not surprising. I had never considered certain things from a sexual perspective before arriving here, until last summer when the summer narc said a few things that shocked me. This whole experience had certainly been an eye opener. I have mentioned that my ex was exceedingly boring.

          1. Chihuahuamum says:

            Hi A Victor…I can relate. I’V
            ve had both a spouse who wasn’t sexual and a narc who is super sexual.
            My spouse I think may be asexual although I’m not sure.
            The narc used sex as a tool. It worked for awhile, but i was able to realize the tactics centered around it after reading the articles here. Thanks to HG’s information. I won’t say I’m 100% unaffected, but i no longer attach any belief there’s any love attached. A partner who is boring in bed can truely love you though. I know we want it all!

          2. A Victor says:

            Hi Chihuahuamom, is your spouse a narcissist? I recently came to understand that there was no love involved with my ex. I wish I had understood years ago, it might have made things different. I think I’d rather stay single now than have a boring partner in bed, it’s one of my prime reasons for getting married again, if I do. I know others marry/get involved for lots of other reasons but I don’t have most of those reasons anymore, I can meet most of my people needs in other ways. Only this area I cannot. I can live without it if I have to, I just won’t like it.

          3. Chihuahuamum says:

            Hi A Victor… No my husband isn’t a narcissist. There is a side to him i don’t know. It’s complex my marriage. He is very selfless in so many ways and a wonderful man, but sexually there’s issues. I don’t mean this in a disrespectful way because i love my husband and do care about him.
            A marriage void of sex is a lonely one and emotionally painful one. He has wanted to fix things, but i feel too much has happened.
            I could be with a man sexually boring as long as he still wanted to be intimate and have sex. I do however love sexual fun and being able to be yourself without fear of judgment and this is what i have with the narc. There isn’t any real love though. He says i love you, but it’s not genuine. I don’t even think he believes it’s genuine. He’s not capable of it. It’s odd because i do see towards my 2 dogs he adores them. He never was allowed pets as a child. His parents were particular with animals. He has never owned a dog or cat.

          4. A Victor says:

            Oh, so you have two, a non narc husband and a narc lover? Well, I suppose that could work…not sure if I could do it though…but man, I do feel a bit cheated of all that supposedly fantastic narc sex!

        3. MP says:

          When my kids were toddlers there were times when the only way to make them behave was by spanking. One spank on the butt with bare hand and not strong enough for them to get hurt but enough for them to realize they have to listen to us. Nowadays we are able to use positive ways of discipline because they can understand more.

          1. lickemtomorrow says:

            The spanking of children has become a big issue over the last few years, MP. When I did spank it was more out my own frustration, if I’m being honest, and that is not a pleasant memory for me. I wish I had handled it better, but I know in those moments I felt overwhelmed. It wasn’t often, but a smack on the bottom wasn’t out of the question at times. Most of the time the disciplinary action consisted of sending them to their rooms, or denying them something, or making them wait. Forcing them to apologize 😛 LOL. Gawd, this is making me sound so old …

            But any physical discipline on my part was minimal and they used to laugh at me when I lost my temper and occasionally said “shut up!” I never cursed in front of them. So when I did, they thought it was hilarious 🙂

            I think we’ve come a long way since our parent’s day in terms of understanding what discipline is, that’s for sure.

          2. Asp Emp says:

            LET, reading your last paragraph – I was not ‘spanked’ – it was walloped, anywhere and usually held by the hair – mother did not do “discipline” in the sense of the word – it was lashing out or any reason (in her perception) – more often than not – fuelled by alcohol. There is a big difference in between ‘discipline’ and ‘violence’. I suppose it was because her children were clever and not like her, she never even made a grade higher than a Lesser. Whoopie-doo.

          3. lickemtomorrow says:

            AspEmp, I can’t ‘like’ this post, only because your mother’s treatment of you sounds horrendous! Yours and AV’s, which makes me very sad 🙁

            “Walloping” is much more serious than a smack and definitely crosses the line in terms of being abusive. The fact she walloped you all over and it involved hair pulling as well … I can only imagine that must have been awful for you as a child. You are right when you say it wasn’t discipline as much as lashing out in a very violent and abusive way.

            I’m sorry that happened to you, and to AV. Alcohol can turn some people into monsters and it must have also been frightening for you when you realized how her drinking coincided with the beatings and also led to a real dread of seeing her drink then as well.

            Narcissistic parents can be envious parents. When you mention her schooling, it’s possible she was resentful of how clever you were and maybe in some ways outshone her. That is also sad. Parents should celebrate their children’s achievements and success.

            There is the element of the scapegoat in your story, too, AspEmp, I’m not sure if your sister was exposed to the same treatment, but by any account your mother took an awful lot out on you, and you didn’t deserve that. No child does.

            It gives me pause to marvel again at all the empaths here who have suffered really traumatic childhood experiences and yet carry their empathy with a wonderful dignity that shows how much the bigger person they are and have become <3 xox

          4. Asp Emp says:

            LET, sorry WP obvs didn’t notify me of your response. Thank you for that. It was awful for me and my sister – we did not have any other adults to stop this – I know what my dad would have done !! You totally ‘got it’ = the fear when she started drinking and not knowing what it would lead to. 13 years between father’s passing and my leaving home. My sister was subject to it too but a lot less than mine. When I told my aunt about it – even now, I don’t think she can ‘forgive’ herself for not realising – then again, it’s how society and neighbours were in those days – we were too far away from the rest of the family. I was the first-born – she got pregnant – her fault but made it mine. So, I appreciate your words. And from what I read in your comment, you do now have a better idea of why I am who I am today. Why I will do anything to protect someone from such abuse. Thank you, LET xx

          5. lickemtomorrow says:

            So many things feed into the reason nothing seems to get done in these situations and a narcissist’s facade can keep people from knowing what is going on. There is the “street angel/house devil” phenomenon, which probably perfectly describes narcs and their facade, so no one is really aware what is going on behind closed doors. Children will also cover for their parents. That is because we need our parents, and can assume that their treatment of us is either deserved or normal. We just want them to love us. So we try harder. And never think to tell someone that we are being treated appallingly and that this needs to stop. I see MP has mentioned neighbours being aware of her situation, but many factors, including cultural ones, keeping anyone from commenting or intervening. Sometimes it’s accepted practice by whole societies in terms of how children are treated. I’m huge on both children’s and parent’s rights. Both need to be supported. The fact your mother was a narcissist means any support offered her was unlikely to have had a positive outcome. What is heartbreaking is that so many of us have to endure without any support ourselves as children. It takes other adults to intervene. I’m so glad your boss did that for you in your first job when you turned 18. Much like what is termed “battered wife syndrome”, it can become impossible to leave when you are so beaten down in the circumstances. You’ve come a long way since then, AspEmp <3 xox

          6. Asp Emp says:

            Having said that, the boss at work I had from age 18 to 22 – he was, I would say, my rescuer – got me a flat away from home. I think he recognised how dangerous it was for me – I had turned up at work with a black eye once, he took me up to the staff room and that is where we spent all day, chatting. And, yes, I still got paid a full day’s work. None of the other staff were allowed to comment on that either LOL. He’d been in the forces (& a war) – so he’d “seen things that nobody should have to see” (quote / unquote).

          7. A Victor says:

            Asp Emp, I am sorry you experienced this. Narc parents are the worst. There is a big difference between and violence, you nailed that.

          8. Asp Emp says:

            AV, thank you. I nailed it – survived it (just). x

          9. A Victor says:

            Asp Emp, I am glad you did, that we did. I guess I left it the word discipline on the last comment but you understood I am glad to see. Some good news, I feel like I’m finally getting a bit on top of this, wanted to share that with you. It’s exciting!

          10. Leigh says:

            Oh Asp, a mother is suppose to nurture and protect. I’m so sorry you went through this. I agree with LET, it still amazes me how we became empathic. The traumatic abuse we suffered was horrendous.

          11. Asp Emp says:

            Leigh, thank you. What you say RE: mother’s role – absolutely. This is a main reason why I think it is high time that the world of unaware’s need to understand that mothers are not always the ‘sweet, loving nurturers’ – far from it. I think it is fair to say that it is amazing that empaths can become the people that they are as a result of such traumas – stronger and in my case, it is not surprising that I have the ability to ‘dial down my empathy’ basically immediately – I am now aware that I do it – it’s something I learned to do. For example, someone said to me years ago (yup, a narcissist) says “I have a cold” and my response was “Well, you should not be spreading it around vulnerable people” – empath grenade released……my colleague was disgusted with her (smiled when I lobbed that grenade back) = 404 moment. LOL.

          12. Leigh says:

            Asp, I agree, It is high time the world realizes that not all mothers nurture. When someone says to me, “But its your mother”, I lose my mind. Just because she gave birth to me, doesn’t mean she automatically gets my respect or empathy.

            I do have to admit though, I fail a little bit on the nurturing side. I’m there for my children 99.9%. But because of my lack of nurturing from my mother, I think I’m failing a little bit. I don’t do hugs. Like when my kitty died a couple of weeks ago, they may have needed a hug but it didn’t even dawn on me until much later. Something I will need to work on for sure.

            As for dialing back my empathy. Yep, I do that too. I have very little patience for people sometimes.

          13. MP says:

            Haha we have been using the same tactics. When someone hits the other I will take away a favorite toy for a week and for them to get it back they cannot hurt their sibling again or it will get extended for seven more days. Mornings are school time so no TV until after lunch. When they get disrespectful like scream at me if I didn’t give them what they want I send them to their room for five minutes then I talk to them then we hug it out. I also tell them to say sorry and to say it’s ok and about 95% of the time they do it without a problem then they hug.

            I don’t know what the new ways of discipline is. I remember my stepdaughter was so proud about parenting philosophy that she says is popular in Hollywood. I can’t remember the name but it’s like treating the child like an adult. She talked to her little three years old like they were peers. It wasn’t my style so I didn’t read the stuff that she wanted me to about it. My half siblings were raised by their mom whom I think was an UMR-Cerebral using Dr. Spock’s philosophy. My half brother was the only one who didn’t become a narcissist but my dad was very involved with him while their mom didn’t allow my dad to be that involved in the decisions and raising of the girls which both became narcissists. They basically got all of the material stuff that they wanted and they were allowed to do everything while their mom made quilts and needlepoint art inside her closed room. So for I’m not a fan of Dr. Spock’s parenting philosophy.
            My husband and I are both old school with parenting and I have a very close friend here who is from Mexico and we agree on almost everything so I feel lucky because on play dates our kids get along really well and her parenting is very much like mine. I also lost temper on our kids and so did my husband but thankfully they were very seldom and like your kids they can laugh at us and they are not afraid of us. I think it’s incredibly hard to raise kids with a narcissist parent and I don’t think I would have done well if I had to do that.

          14. lickemtomorrow says:

            MP, very interested to read your comments here, and thanks for sharing <3

            You know that old saying – "this is going to hurt me more than it's going to hurt you" – well, I can relate to that, and I suspect a lot of parents can. We actually don't like having to discipline our kids. At least that's a line that can maybe be drawn between empathic and narcissistic parents. And I mean that in the sense that narc parents will either be over indulgent (not hearing a lot about those here) or extremely authoritarian.

            There is a middle ground most parents try to maintain between those two (I'm sure the normals have got it right), but for empaths I'm just wondering now if we are more inclined to overindulge at times (I know I did), and I know for a fact as far as my children's father went it was his way or the highway. No empathy. He could be brutal. And he wasn't even aware of that. Which goes to his narcissism. No conscience either. Or ability to have any insight. This is the point at which an empathic parent may try to make up for what is lacking in the narcissistic parent, or make amends by overindulging. Hadn't meant to say all that, but the thoughts are flowing so I'll just let them flow.

            If I had to discipline my children we would always end up having the conversation, when they were old enough, or there would be an explanation so that they understood why they were being disciplined. Otherwise, what's the point? But for the most part any disciplinary action was short lived and followed up by an apology if needs be. There were some very resentful "sorry's" given, but wrongdoing had to be acknowledged, and sometimes both owed eachother an apology. I also apologized to my children when I knew I was wrong. I thought that was important. For me it was about setting an example. I could get things wrong, too, and the upshot of that was acknowledging it and apologizing for it. We are actually a very forgiving family unit in that sense. On the other hand, their father never apologized for anything, or ever reflected on anything, because he was always right. Jerk! I never understood the never looking back and always driving forward until I got here. And I still don't understand it in some respects, and it totally p's me off, but at least it answers some things for me.

            A more frightening thing, from my perspective, is a news report I came across yesterday which floored me. It was being suggested by some 'forward thinking' childcare facility that parents and carers should be asking permission from their children before interacting with them. This seemed to relate to children even below toddler age, and they were recommending asking your child if you could change their nappy, not interrupting their play to change their nappy, asking them if you could pick them up rather than just doing so, etc. The concept is nothing short of frightening to me. Parents are in charge of children. That is the responsibility we accept as adults and children expect us to take care of them. It's a two way street and by far the most secure foundation for children. Yet, here are people suggesting we put children in charge. I could say so much more about this, but a world in which we give more and more power to children and parents are expected to kowtow to them … let me just say, if we thought narcissism is one the rise now, future generations will be decimated by it.

            We will occasionally lose our tempers, as you say MP, but to my mind that is far preferable to toddler tantrums ruling the world.

          15. MP says:

            Hello LET, The forward thinking childcare facility that you saw seems to follow a similar philosophy as that which my MR stepdaughter follows. I remember the name now, RIE parenting. The parent has to ask for permission from the baby to change diapers etc. even if the baby doesn’t really understand. I think their philosophy is that it will establish the child’s ability to have a voice and boundaries. I remember she told my husband to not tickle her daughter which kind of made my husband think his daughter is nuts although he has also said that in several other occasions for various other reasons. She said that roughhousing and tickling the baby is a violation of the baby’s boundary. I am not knowledgeable about RIE parenting since I didn’t read the books that she wanted me to read so I could be speaking out of ignorance too. But from my observation from her, it was not the style that aligned with who I am. I think one of the turn off for me was when she was talking to her toddler like her toddler was her friend.

            This is my personal opinion, after reading some of HG’s articles and also other books such as The Whole Brain Child and Brain Rules for Babies, babies need the feeling of safety and feeling safe also includes the feeling that your parents are wiser, bigger, and stronger than you and they will make the wisest decisions for you to keep you safe and you can be comfortable with the fact that you are a child and can just relax and rely on your parents making choices for your good. I think it is not going to give kids a safe feeling if their parents treat them like their peers and expect them to make decisions that they don’t have the tools to make yet. But that’s just my opinion.

            I agree about the importance of apologies and it is also a constant in our family. My husband is a little more reticent in asking for forgiveness but he does it. I agree about modeling and also I believe if they are used to growing up where they ask for forgiveness and get forgiveness with no issues, when they encounter a narc someday they will realize that it is not normal and not what they are used to and hopefully that helps them to get turned off and seek healthier relationship. With their dynamic as siblings they easily say sorry and the other immediately says I forgive you and it’s the same with us their parents too so I hope that it will work. 🤞

          16. lickemtomorrow says:

            MP, I enjoyed reading your comment and thanks for that further insight around the parenting style I mentioned. Sounds like the same one, and while I’m all for what I would call responsive parenting, and reading babies and children’s cues (tired, hungry, bored), plus providing an explanation when dealing with them – “OK, let’s get your nappy/diaper changed”,”time for bed”, etc. I think we are putting a burden on children by asking permission. It’s almost like asking them to parent themselves. At least that’s how it sounds to me. And from that perspective it would be an enormous basis for insecurity in the child. The opposite scenario is just as bad where parents take all the control and insist without sensing or taking into account their child’s needs (authoritarian). My feeling is there is a balance which needs to be struck for both parents and childrens sakes.

            Totally agree with your second paragraph as well. We can’t be our children’s peers. They can’t raise themselves. And we need to have the authority to ensure their well being. From my experience they will find enough opportunities with their burgeoning maturity to challenge any misconceived ideas (from their perspective) and hopefully at that stage we will have prepared them well enough to let them test the waters of their own experience. It can be a delicate balance at times.

            I meant to get back to the boundary violation thing as well. No doubt there are appropriate and inappropriate behaviours which both children and adults need to understand. In relation to what you have said, some children might have a particular dislike for a certain type of interaction and it would not be right for the adult to insist on that if they are aware of the child’s reaction. For example, my mother would put freezing cold hands on me. I hated it. She didn’t care. And thought it was funny. Even as an adult I would consider that a boundary violation on her part. She knew I didn’t like it, but she did it anyway. So, I don’t disagree with respecting certain boundaries when it comes to children and their needs.

            Recently my daughters boyfriend’s mother had a run in with his brother’s partner over what I would term a boundary violation. It was a basic nose wiping job on her first grandchild where grandma insisted on doing it her way after already being told by the mother the child did not like having his nose wiped that way. It might seem simple, but I believe the mother read the situation right, spoke for her son who at one year old was not old enough to speak for himself, and yet grandma insisted. Needless to say WWIII broke out as the mother felt disrespected and grandma couldn’t understand the need to respect either mother or child’s boundaries.

            All in all, it’s an area for consideration, but I can understand where your husband is coming from in relation to his daughter. I’m sure if he knew his granddaughter didn’t like being tickled he wouldn’t do it. Asking permission to tickle in the first place seems to make the whole spontaneous idea of tickling pointless. I’d be interested to know how that works out for your his daughter and how she manages the need for control in the circumstances. Maybe that is an example of the overindulgent narcissistic parent. Somehow I can’t see it working out well for either of them.

          17. lickemtomorrow says:

            Oops! *his daughter.

          18. A Victor says:

            LET, my experience was similar to yours in some ways, I used a swat on the bottom to snap them out of a behavior or thought pattern or to correct dangerous behavior, like running into the street, but only after steps were taken first to handle it without a swat. Though I am not proud of those swats, I realized early on that I would never be able to do things as my mother had, I could never have brought myself to treat them as she had us. That was a pleasant thing to realize.

          19. Leigh says:

            I have to share about correcting dangerous behavior. I just thought of a memory that made me chuckle. My youngest was all over the place. I couldn’t keep her still. She was always trying to escape too. I had to put locks way up high so she couldn’t reach them. I had to put a lock on the basement door and the door going upstairs as well. I had to put the child safety locks on for the car. No matter what I did, I couldn’t get her to stop trying to escape. I would squeeze her hand if we were out in public to get her to stop running. Then she would yell at me, “You’re hurting me!” I would scream back, “Good, now stop running away from me and I’ll let go.” I can’t wait until she starts having babies. I’m gonna laugh when they do the same thing to her.

          20. A Victor says:

            I had one that did that too, it was so stressful. And I had an energizer bunny one, she’s now expecting her 4th and already has 2 that are just like her! It makes me giggle!

          21. Leigh says:

            Yes, she was an energizer bunny too and a monkey. She was constantly running and climbing things. I don’t know how I kept up with her.

          22. Leigh says:

            Ugh! I cursed all the time and I spanked too. I would only spank their hiney and like MP, only when they were toddlers. When they became teenagers, spanking wouldn’t work. I had to take things away, like their phone. We were not allowed to use mean or ugly words AT ALL. That was a rule I did not budge on. Name calling was absolutely not allowed. My husband is a name caller which was difficult at times but I didn’t tolerate it. I never used stupid, fat, ugly or any other derogatory word. I did yell ALOT, lol. I did curse too but not at them. It was more as a descriptive word or as an exclamation. Like Fucking A or Crap or clean your fucking room.

            Now that I hear my daughters cursing, I wish I hadn’t cursed.

            One other thing, discipline was always on me. My husband never disciplined other than to say, listen to your mother. He set it up perfectly because when they didn’t listen or do the right thing, it was my fault.

          23. lickemtomorrow says:

            Leigh, I really appreciate your honest input and I am not a fan of name calling either. In fact, I detest it and believe it can be extremely damaging. I would never ‘name call’ my children or allow them to name call eachother. If they did, an immediate apology was expected. My ex-husband could be a name caller and a curser also, and that was difficult when the children weren’t under my watch. I truly believe they came to expect different behaviour from him and therefore became accepting of it to a certain extent. So while I was trying to teach them one way, he was undoing that, not deliberately, but because he was a narcissist and considered all his behaviours to be right and true. I can see how your husband set you up to be the disciplinarian, and thus the fall guy when things went wrong. How convenient!

            The cursing made me laugh when you said it, but I can see how you might regret it now. Everything in hindsight as they say. And we need to factor in stress and our own upbringing, too. Perfect parenting will never be a thing. Ever. But we do our best.

            And “hiney” is cute! Butt is one I hear more often, but bottom, backside, bum are a few others I’ve come across 😛

          24. Eternity says:

            MP, I remember I came home at 3am when I was a teenager . My boyfriend drove me home and had the music loud . No cell phones at the time or internet . I walked inside the house. My mom was waiting behind the door, bam she smacked me with the slipper right on top of my head. Where have you’ve been? I will never forget it . Nowadays you can’t do that .

          25. MP says:

            Yes, I agree Eternity, it shouldn’t be acceptable anymore.

      3. MP says:

        Hello AV, I’m sorry your N parent was violent. I had the same experience as a child. I have resented it as a child but then as I was growing up I was seeing the positive sides of my abuse and crediting it for the positive things people said about me. I thought it was tough discipline but it’s better than no discipline. So I thought someday when I have kids I will be a little muted version of my mom’s discipline. When I had kids I realized I can’t even be near what my mom was and even small one time spank made me feel bad because even though it didn’t hurt them physically I know it hurt their emotions. However my husband told me that kids will never like being disciplined so at times I fought my inner empathy in order to be able to discipline. I honestly don’t know what is the best way to discipline because personally it is probably the hardest part of being a mom.

        Anyway, about the sexual spanking, I have never tried it and I have no interest. It’s not part of the life I have so I don’t even think about it. My husband is not into domination kind of sex. I have read though that some people actually enjoy that kind of sex. It’s not something I can relate but whatever makes people happy. If people are not for it they shouldn’t be subjected to it though.

        1. A Victor says:

          MP, I’m glad you can see the positive sides of your abuse. In my case it went way beyond tough discipline. My mother tried to choke me on occasion, bruises were left on us, things happened on stairs, weird sexual things were part of it etc. And those weren’t even the “disciplines”, which were all encompassing, body, soul and spirit. I would’ve possibly been a more functional adult with no discipline, so much damage these things did. My brother and sister also. Maybe someday I will see it as positives but I am not there yet.

          1. MP says:

            A Victor, I’m so sorry that’s what you experienced. My life was never threatened with my mom’s corporal style of discipline. She just hit me with flip flops or bamboo handle of a broom and she would hit me all over until her rage subsided. But in a strange way she never made me feel my life was in danger in her hands and she nursed my bruises afterwards and seemed to feel bad that I got her mad enough to do that to me. Not until recently I just thought she just wasn’t educated about proper ways of raising a kid but I thought she truly loved me and was my number one protector.

            I don’t think you ever need to see it as a positive. I think you are allowed to see it for how your body and mind sees it and acknowledge it for what it is and also acknowledge the strength you have inside to survive that and still be who you are. The positive side is who you are and how strong you are.

          2. A Victor says:

            I agree, to a degree. I don’t know that I will ever stop questioning what could have been had she been kind. But, I will not allow that to make me bitter, as I told Leela on another thread a bit ago. I am strong because of this, but it is a warped strength right now that is not useful in the ways it should be. I plan to see just how straightened out I can get it and go from there.

          3. MP says:

            It will come AV. I had the same journey but now I’m just focused on going forward. It has been a lot of trying to find myself. I can’t say this will work for everyone but for me seeing how my husband interacts with our kids has been very healing. I feel that being with a healthy person has been healing. And also seeing my kids develop as they are growing from infancy has been healing. It is like I am reaching out to my old child self vicariously through the healthy upbringing of our kids and through their happiness. My husband and I are by no means perfect parents, I often rethink, reconsider and revise some of my parenting tactics or strategies depending on how I have been seeing them affect my kids. And that has been healing as well. Looking at the things that really matter. I wish you all the best AV and I know you have already come a long way. There are many good things that you have already acquired for yourself in your journey and you have the power to choose wherever you want to go. This morning my husband jokingly and randomly told me “Today is the beginning of the rest of our lives”. And I told his “And so is tomorrow!” He was being silly but it is so true. We can pick any day as a fresh start. Our lives do not have to be perfect. And as I always tell our son, just because you made a mistake in your first sentence doesn’t mean it should bother you from making the rest of your paragraph as best as you want to make it. And also. I have seen some people from my childhood who had kind parents but still ended up going the wrong way. I know you will definitely find what you are looking for. You already know your strength and you will be able to control it the way you want to.

          4. JB says:

            That’s awful, AV. I am so sorry you went through that xx

          5. A Victor says:

            Thanks JB. I am glad it is no longer. It is why I didn’t want children, didn’t plan on them at all. But having them was very healing for me, I found out it doesn’t have to be that way.

          6. Leigh says:

            Oh AV, I’m so sorry to hear this. Its awful what they did to you. If I could kick their ass, I would. Somehow, someway you managed to become an empath out of all that chaos. Now, you’re a loving and supportive mother. Those are the positives. Despite everything you went through, you’re still such a positive person and you have a gentle soul.

          7. A Victor says:

            Thank you Leigh. It was only my mother. My dad was just not around. I think it speaks much to the genes.

          8. Leigh says:

            I’m so sorry. Your mother was suppose to nurture and care for you. Some people suck!

          9. A Victor says:

            Sorry Leigh, I didn’t clarify well, I was referring to the gene aspect of empathy. Thank you for the kind words.

          10. Bubbles says:

            Dearest A Victor,
            I’m so completely devastated to hear that AV ….. who in their right mind chokes their own child ….. bloody hell, it’s truly beyond comprehension! I’m so so sorry n saddened AV, that’s just breaks my heart to the very core
            None of it was your fault and you are never to blame yourself

            Despite what you horrifically endured, look how incredible you are now and that counts for everything. You’re children are so fortunate to have a mum as wonderful as you
            Just by being here, you have certainly enriched me . Never forget AV, you’re better than you think you are, you are such a beautiful good kind hearted person! Never stop believing in yourself, cos we sure do 💕
            Luv Bubbles xx 😘

          11. A Victor says:

            Bubbles, the reality of things done to me has been hitting me since I’ve been here. I think it has been a situation of knowing but not really grasping the meaning and enormity, until now.
            I have come to understand she wasn’t/isn’t in her right mind, from my perspective. This makes my cry, in what world, what perspective, is her behavior acceptable? I am just so glad that my makeup includes empathy, I can not fathom one of my children being subjected to this. Thank you for your kind words, and for believing in me. My belief is coming along and it helps knowing others do.

          12. JB says:

            AV, you’re right, it doesn’t have to be that way. I’m glad that having kids helped you to start to heal. It would have been such a shame if you hadn’t felt able to start a family because of your mum’s horrific treatment of you. She may have ruined one part of your life, but she sure as hell wasn’t going to ruin all of it! Xx

          13. JB says:

            MP, that’s awful. Can I ask, did anybody ever question your mum about the bruising? I will understand if you don’t feel comfortable answering this xx

          14. Bubbles says:

            Dearest A Victor,
            Understanding narcissism has answered so many ‘why’ questions for me
            Relating here has been the best therapy n medicine one could hope for
            It’s changed me a lot, it will change you too…….but in a good way
            Stay as lovely as you are and just keep swimming cos we’re swimming right with you 🐬(that’s a dolphin, they’re gorgeous n intelligent, just like us, curious n very sociable) hehe
            Luv Bubbles xx 😘

          15. A Victor says:

            Aw Bubbles, that is so sweet, the picture of a group (pod?) of dolphins swimming together, wild, free, strong and smiling!! Because we are victorious! Thank you for that!

          16. MP says:

            Hello JB, Don’t worry, it was a reasonable question. I don’t remember teachers asking my mom but some teachers asked me and I remember lying to them and saying I fell or something. I created a facade that I was spoiled and loved by my mom, mainly because I thought she really loved my but she was mentally and emotionally not equipped to parent me. I felt bad for her and she told me some people might want to take me from her. The thought of her being alone, also knowing that she can’t get along with anyone made me feel sorry for her so I didn’t tell anyone what was happening at home. I also changed schools every year in grade school so my teachers and classmates didn’t have a chance to get to know me and my mom that well. My relatives kind of knew that I was spanked a lot but corporal punishment was culturally accepted in my home country and so there was an allowance where my mom could do it and still appear normal in public. Culturally children are expected to have unfailing loyalty and devotion to their parents and at times that I answered back at my mom in public strangers glared at me as an ungrateful spoiled white child. My mixed white race also played some role in it because culturally there there’s an impression that white children are not respectful of their parents like the children there are and the fair skin and brown hair I have kind of made some people have some prejudice against me that I felt that I need to disprove which also made me feel that even if I tell anyone nobody would believe me anyway. My mom also dressed up in a way that made her look very poor and like a martyr and she told people that my dad didn’t send enough money so all of the money just goes towards me. And all of that combined made people in general feel bad for my mom and not suspicious. The general impression was that she didn’t have social skills, was very uneducated and can be unpleasant but deep inside all of that is that she is completely and selflessly devoted to me. And culturally, in my home country, people want to look for the good side in everyone so to them it made them comfortable or feel good I guess that the good side in my mom is that she would give her life for me and I was the same way too. There was one time though when I moved to a different school during high school and it was in the capital city and where I left my old school in the province, I saw my old classmates having a field trip in a museum and I never cut classes but that time I followed my heart and didn’t attend school that day and instead went to the museum to see all of my old classmates. They were so excited and they lied to the museum guards that we all go to the same school when the guard asked why my uniform is different. Anyway two of my old bestfriends took me aside and asked me if my mom was really beating me up at home because our neighbor just across our apartment also went to that school and apparently told a lot of students there that they could here all of the screaming and yelling from our house almost every night. I guess our neighbor had the courage to tell them after I no longer go to that school. And that was the first time that I was honest about it because I trusted my friends but I asked them to never tell anyone. It was also very embarrassing for me because at that age I didn’t want people to look at me and feel bad for me. So when I read stories in the news about kids being abused and nobody knew about it, I kind of have an idea what might be the reasons why the child never told anyone, although of course it is not always the same factors for everyone. It is very sad but it is really often convenient for narcissists to be able to abuse their kids.

          17. A Victor says:

            Aw MP, I am sorry for your experience with your mother. I only just caught that it involved bruises, especially at a level where people questioned them. It is awful to grow up abused. I am glad for us to be here now and able to make some sense out of it and move on. Thank you for sharing your story.

          18. MP says:

            Thank you AV. It kind of hurts whenever I go back to the memories, I’m sure it does with you too. But overall I am glad that the cycle is over. My mom passed away already and I do honestly love her but in many ways I feel that it made mine and my husband’s lives easier. Maybe two or three years before I discovered Narcsite I went to my home country and brought my son with me. My daughter wasn’t born yet. I had this idea that my mom would love to have quality time with her grandson which she wasn’t able to do. And I remember how weird it felt for me that her affect over meeting her grandson for the first time was so flat. And then she tried to give him a massage a few times and he was screaming because her hands were too heavy and he was only two at that time. I tried to make a connection between them as best as I could but there was no excitement in her eyes. But she was telling me the whole time how to take care of him and she was also very noisy doing chores during night time that he kept waking up and didn’t have a good sleep. It was a horrible time but I think that’s when I really accepted that there is no way that she can change. The knowledge from Narcsite affirmed it.

          19. A Victor says:

            MP, I don’t register memories as hurtful, they’re either pleasant or not, I have few memories from my childhood, mostly not pleasant. I am so sorry to heat how your mom was with your son, that had to be hard. That is where I have pain, seeing how she interacts with the great grandchildren. She didn’t understand why they reject her, they don’t understand why she’s so forceful with her hugs and kisses. Her sense of ownership is so clear. And their parents and myself trying to stop it.

            I have wondered how I will feel after she’s gone. Guilty for not liking her, for avoiding her? I do it anyway, for my own well being, she wears me down. It wouldn’t be so bad if she would hear my response and change her ways but that’s part of the problem, she doesn’t, now I understand why but it makes it almost worse, I have zero patience for it now. But also that I can’t just “go home” like in the past. I don’t think I’ll have guilt. I think i’ll have relief. I haven’t had guilt about my dad.

          20. Eternity says:

            A Victor , OMG I can’t believe you went through that so sorry.
            Why are people parents? they shouldn’t have kids. Tie your tubes for God’s sake.
            You are a positive person you have come to terms with it. You are a very brave to even talk bout it. Take care xoxo

          21. A Victor says:

            Hi Eternity, I’m just glad it’s over. My parents should not have had kids but, then I wouldn’t have mine, so who knows. I became an ostrich, keeping my head in the sand for most of my life. Whenever I’d try to pull my head out, nothing made sense, so back in the head went. That’s how I was able to stay positive until I arrived here and I wasn’t always. Now I am able to see the truth and be positive more easily, it is much nicer. And brave isn’t me, I just feel safe here. I don’t talk about my past anywhere else really. But I am glad to be getting it sorted out now. Thanks for your encouragement Eternity.

          22. JB says:

            MP, it just goes to show how times have changed. It’s incredible that there were people who had their suspicions, yet nothing was done to help you. I’m so sorry you went through that xx

          23. MP says:

            Thank you JB. The good thing is many international organizations are now coming to my home country and trying to affect change in the way children are disciplined. I don’t know how fast or slow progress can be made but I think it’s good for my home country to get perspectives from other parts of the world. Normals there also do corporal punishments. I know empathic parents who didn’t follow the cultural norm of discipline because they followed their instincts. With the internet and social media, more information and awareness also gets spread in countries that use corporal punishment on kids. My home country also didn’t have CPS and unless my mom had beat me up to the point of severe injury no one can do anything. She was just telling me that some people might take me in order to control me but no one really can. My American dad could not have taken me from her either because my home country wouldn’t give up a child to a foreigner especially when there was no marriage. So I think times are changing for the kids over there which is definitely a good thing.

          24. MP says:

            JB, I just want to add, the difference between a Normal and a Narcissist using corporal punishment is that the Narcissist acts on fury and oftentimes there’s no control or limitation over how they do it because of the lack of empathy. A Normal could ask their child to kneel on mongo beans and balance books on each hand until they promise that they will never do it again or until they promise to make reparations over what they did. Also when a Normal does it, it is usually over some serious misbehavior. While a Narcissist could do it just because I lost a pencil in school or I didn’t follow her instructions to a tee. I know a lot of childhood acquaintances that experienced corporal punishment rarely in their childhood by their Normal parents and does not feel that they were abused at all.

          25. MP says:

            Hello JB, Here are some information on corporal punishment as a means to discipline children in my home country and the recommendations on how to end it.

            https://resourcecentre.savethechildren.net/library/corporal-punishment-philippines

          26. JB says:

            MP, thanks for the info. I’m glad that there is some attempt at changing how corporal punishment is viewed being made in your country. Irrespective of country, it is not something which sits well with me. No disrespect to anybody here, we all parent differently, but it’s not something I would feel comfortable using x

  7. Survived a Sociopath says:

    This picture is so funny because my Narc-Sociopath (who is 19 years older) asked me during the love-bombing phase if I liked being bent over and spanked and saying “Thank you daddy may I have another”…lmao!! I rejected his advances and made him stay in the friend zone but he was constantly trying to break down my walls and manipulating me into talking about sexual things with him.

  8. Asp Emp says:

    Laughing…… How appropriate. To follow up this article with ‘Hush’. Pity, the image is in black and white, hence the less likely to spot the ‘red pen’ (2002 film ‘Secretary’) LOL.

    1. Jules says:

      I would never leave teeth marks on important documents like Scarlett did! 😉 It would need to be re done!! 😅

      1. Asp Emp says:

        Jules, laughing…… yes, oh, thank you for the reminder of that scene. Laughing. Oh, she certainly got spanked! It would have not hurt as much with all that dress material (giggling). In her defense, the stapler had not been invented those days 😉

    2. Eternity says:

      ASP Emp, great movie!

      1. Asp Emp says:

        Eternity, yes, great movie – but so bloody long! It was one of the greatest movies of all time when it was released. Interesting though, the film, does ‘smack – a lot’ (LOL) of narcissism. The innuendos! Laughing.

        1. A Victor says:

          Asp Emp, Secretary, with James Spader, is long? That’s excellent news! Thank you!

          1. Asp Emp says:

            Hey AV, alas, it is ‘Gone With The Wind’ – Scarlett O’Hara is the character being referred to here. Am I to assume that you still have not watched ‘Secretary’ AV? I cannot believe you! 😉

          2. A Victor says:

            Haha Asp Emp, it’s about spanking, so, aversion to that vs attraction to James…he’s starting to tip the balance…

        2. Eternity says:

          Ha ha Asp Emp you make me laugh!
          Instead of A Whole Lotta of Shakin going on there was A whole lot of Smackin going on.

          1. Asp Emp says:

            Eternity, the film – I was surprised was released during WWII ! Well, it was “taboo” to show sex scenes in films those days…… LOL. So they managed to sneak in a bit of erotica instead 😉

  9. Survived a Sociopath says:

    This picture is so funny…My Narc-Sociopath (who is 19 years older) asked me during the love-bombing phase if I liked being bent over and spanked and saying “Thank you daddy, may I have another?” lmao!

    1. leelasfuelstinks says:

      It´s a question of personal taste. I personally like that 😉

      1. A Victor says:

        It is about taste Leela, and also experience. My ex, so fucking boring, I can see I have led a very sheltered life in this area. And it pisses me off! I tried to expand our horizons but he wouldn’t…accommodate. Not to this scenario necessarily, not at all, but…what man is so dull when they have a willing partner? It was frustrating. It mirrored the rest of our relationship i suppose. What’s so nuts us that everyone around us thought we had the best marriage ever. That was hard for me to figure out.

        1. leelasfuelstinks says:

          You know what? “Lucky” me! I NEVER had a narc who was competent between the sheets. Only my Upper Lesser A Somatic ex was decent but struggled with keeping up his erection and with inability to orgasm. The rest was TOTAL TRASH in bed! 🤢

          1. A Victor says:

            Haha Leela, same! It does make it easier to leave the narcs behind and consider a normal or empath! Silver linings! 🤣

          2. Eternity says:

            Ha ha you are hilarious Leela ! Just toss it all in the trash can!

          3. leelasfuelstinks says:

            Even a trash can would refuse the “bed skills” of some narcs! 😂 They belong to the hazardous waste.

          4. Eternity says:

            True, ha ha, they can’t even be recycled.

          5. BC30 says:

            Hahaha I realized in my case the difference between the Somatic and the Elite. The Somatic wanted to to everything all the time. The Elite found what worked and wanted to do that every time.

        2. Eternity says:

          A Victor ,
          I went through the exact same thing holy moly ! Are we related? ha ha .

          1. A Victor says:

            Eternity, haha, maybe! You’re not my sister though, pretty sure she’s a narc! 😂

          2. Eternity says:

            Oh no, maybe we are soul sisters then haha!

          3. A Victor says:

            Yes! I think that’s right! 💕

          4. Eternity says:

            Soul sisters Soul searching ha ha !

          5. A Victor says:

            Haha, that’s good!

        3. BC30 says:

          We’re not dead yet, get out there.

          1. A Victor says:

            Haha, working toward that!! And feeling really great about it! Thanks for the encouragement!

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