No! You Are the Narcissist : Part One
The issue about the state of awareness of our kind is a central piece of the puzzle. Victims struggle with the proposition that someone behaves in such a way as we do yet does not see what they are doing. How can he not realise what he is doing? How can he not see that he is wrong? How can he not accept that I am right, I have the evidence in my hands?
How can he not grasp that it is him and not me that is causing the problems? How can he not recognise that he is being selfish, hurtful or abusive? How can someone not know that they are behaving in this manner? I daresay you have said one or more of those questions at some point. Our awareness of what we are also dovetails with your awareness of what we are. As I have pointed out previously, next to nobody spots our kind when we first entangle with you.
Even if you have been ensnared by one of our kind already, you stand a good chance of being ensnared a second time. Often the realisation as to what has happened to you may not take place for many years after the event or once the discard has taken place. You may realise that you have been entangled by a narcissist during the devaluation or more likely when we return looking to effect a post-discard/escape hoover. Almost without exception, once you have realised who you have become entangled with you have the overwhelming desire to tell us that you know what we are.
It is a moment of triumph surely? You have been advised by an outside influence and/or you have read extensively and so many of our behaviours match with that of the narcissist. You have had your “aha” moment and whilst your head may still be swimming from the experience, your heart pulled all over the place and so many questions remained unanswered, you now know what we are.
You have the knowledge and you are going to unmask us by telling us straight that you know and you are going to tell us direct what we are. It is time for you to strike a long overdue blow back at us. Thus, armed with this knowledge, what can you expect to happen? As you would expect, the response of the narcissist depends on which type you have become involved with. Let us begin with the Lesser Narcissist.
The Lesser does not know what he is. He acts through instinct, reaction and knee-jerk responses. If you tell a Lesser that he is a narcissist, chances are he may not even understand what you mean. Your comment will be Challenge Fuel, you provide fuel but you are threatening the narcissist´s unconscious sense of control. The narcissist will respond in a manner to assert control over you, directly, and may say things such as
“Why are using fancy words all of a sudden?”
“What are you using dictionary words for? Are you trying to make out that you are better than me?”
His inability to understand what you mean will be perceived by him as a criticism of him. His sense of unconscious control is adversely affected.. Lacking much in the way of control he will lash out at you as he instinctively seeks fuel and to assert control over you.. He does not know that this is what is happening, nor does he understand his reaction, but this is what will happen. If you happen to have gained your awareness from a book and you use that to justify the label expect that book to be torn in half or thrown on a fire as knee-jerk response.
If the Lesser has some understanding of what a narcissist is, he will again only see it as criticism. Like many he will consider the label to only mean that he loves himself. You can expect responses such as: –
“Are you saying I love myself? Huh, guess I have to because you don’t anymore do you?”
“I love myself. You have some cheek. Have you seen the way you go on, preening yourself and swanning around?”
The Lesser will immediately deflect this perceived criticism by turning the position around and engaging in blame-shifting against you. He will seize on any evidence to hand which shows that you are the self-love and not him. If you have recently bought some new clothing, you can expect that to be brought up and you challenged for your spending habits. Said clothing is likely to be ripped or thrown away. If you have a range of potions and lotions which you use as part of your beauty regime, they will be seized on as evidence that you love yourself. They will be thrown around the room as the fury ignites, poured down the sink or smashed up.
The Lesser will not and cannot accept that he is a narcissist. He does not know what he is and therefore has no awareness. If you attempt to “educate him” by explaining the various traits and behaviours of narcissism and link it to the way he behaves, if you do this in a neutral fashion you will be heaping more criticism on him. Every point you made will be met with deflection and denial.
If you say,
“Look, I am just trying to get you to see that when you go out and disappear drinking before coming home and demanding sex, you are not showing any thought for me and ignoring my boundaries, that is the behaviour of a narcissist.”
You will be met with,
“Oh so now I am not allowed to go out drinking am I?”
“I don’t demand sex, you never give me any as it is and anyway you should, what’s got into you these days? Getting it somewhere else are we?”
“Boundaries? Narcissist? Who has been filling you head with this shit? I bet it was Lucy wasn’t it, she has never liked me.”
As you threaten his control with this accusation, you will witness the paranoia, blame-shifting, denial, projection and deflection as the Lesser avoids discussing the issue. It does not register with him at all. No matter how obvious it may seem to you, he cannot grasp that he can be at any fault. It may be plain as day to you, the narcissistic behaviour matches exactly with what he does, but for all your explaining he will not accept it. Firstly, he will not do so because he does not know what he is, therefore he lacks the capacity to accept it. Secondly, even if he could he will not because of the defence mechanism that we have, namely that we are not accountable.
The denial and deflection will continue until you show signs of exasperation, upset or anger. When this fuel appears, this will assist the Lesser in making him feel more powerful and therefore he will, instinctively, be looking to push you to providing him with fuel through his responses. If your questioning persists and he does not withdraw, he will still seek to assert control over you and he will be forced to lash out (of course you will be blamed for his) which will result in verbal violence, destruction of property and physical violence as well.
The Lesser’s paranoia will convince him that you are trying to catch him out in a way which he does not understand (nor can he) and all he knows is that he feels a sense of considerable discomfort. He does not know that this is caused by your threat to his control. He will instinctively need to protect himself and this means getting fuel. He needs to head off your “oh so clever” comments – hence the denial and deflection, but he cannot control the ignited fury which ignites in order to seek the necessary fuel.
If you persist with pointing out what he is and you do not give him the control he needs, he will evade you as he goes in search of fuel from someone else and in order to get away from the source of his annoyance and thus assert control over you through withdrawal.
A Lesser is unlikely to accuse you of being a narcissist because he has no real understanding of what you are referring to. What he will do however is throw back at you the constituent parts which you identify as narcissistic behaviours, at you. This is to defend himself from the criticism attached with this. This is to defend himself because he cannot be accountable for any kind of failure or weakness.
This is done as a reaction to try and cause you to react to these allegations so you give fuel. You end up justifying that you are not the narcissist, thus he is (through instinct rather than calculated design) able to halt the wounding attack from you and gain fuel into the bargain as you protect about how you do not love yourself, that you care about him and other people, that you recognise boundaries and so forth.
You will never ever convince a Lesser Narcissist that he is one. He just cannot comprehend it. That is why although his behaviours match those of our kind, he cannot see it. He no insight whatsoever. All you will do is cause him to defend himself, have his fury ignited and ultimately cause him to lash out at you. Do not waste your time trying to convince him. You will not.
18 thoughts on “No! You Are the Narcissist : Part One”
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HG …do male narcs have a “mother revenge” playing out with their primary .
If the individual who created the LOCE is the mother, then yes, the IPPS “steps into the shoes” of the mother when the IPPS wounds the narcissist. However, ANYBODY who wounds the narcissist is in effect the same as that first creator of the LOCE, you are that first abuser and that is why we respond in the way that we do.
HG, that is a really good explanation. I had wondered to myself (for many years) as to whether I instinctively find some women need to be ‘avoided’ (laughing). It also explains why I used to react the way I did when I was being ‘abused’ – I only learned that about myself in the last year. I wonder if it is quite a common ‘reaction/ response’ by ACONs too? Thank you, HG, for writing the comment, another affirmation – adding to my education.
Hi Asp Emp, can I ask why you instinctively avoided some women, with reference to HG’ s comment? I have always avoided certain women also, I attributed it to them being like my mother. But my ex actually had the LOCE from his dad I believe, so I was filling his dad’s shoes when I wounded my ex. I always thought I had it “easier” in some ways because he viewed his mom as the good parent and she and I were both women in his life. I know he learned from his dad to devalue but that his narcissism choose very different ways of doing the devaluating. I wonder how much difference it makes to the narcissism and the way it plays out in each narcissist, depending on which parent caused the LOCE. Empaths too for that matter.
AV, it was instinctual – because I ‘sensed’ them (possibly more likely to be narcissist females, rather than normals / other empaths). I’m laughing because if I was able to ‘sense’ these bit**es from an early age, no wonder I was ‘picked on’ at school and at work. Don’t get me wrong, there has been and there are some good women in my life – but I now know the ‘difference’ (LOL).
It is not necessarily, on my part, I would say, maybe, directly because of ‘mother’ – it was more instincts saying “avoid this bit*h” like the plague. It is probably biological too – women thinking / acting similar (because women and men are biologically different and also in ‘thought’ patterns to some degree).
Like there was this girl in my teens – told us lots of stuff that I realised during my early adult years that she was lying about a lot of things. She also verbally attacked me in my absence to my other friends – we all have refused to have contact with her since. She verbally attacked my friend’s husband – he was a lovely man, born & raised in Germany (died young through rare illness). She was downright ‘racist’ about him. Now, she made friends with someone and I blocked her (again) – there are a small number of our friends that do not know what happened – they’d be appalled if they knew. I am very confident she is narcissist because of her father. I have no sympathy for her. She has qualifications in……psychology!
Asp Emp, thank you for filling this in for me, it makes sense and is very interesting.
Your comment has me wondering, AspEmp, if we are stepping into eachother’s shoes.
That is, as IPPS we step into the shoes of ‘mother’ at times, and the narcissist also becomes the parent for us as an ACON.
I know the out of context reactions I got were not meant for me. They were meant for mother. He also got responses that were meant for mother. We triggered eachother. Because he was the narcissist and I was the child of a narcissist.
LET, I think you have ‘got’ it – in your second paragraph.
I reckon it is all instinct based because we don’t know we are ACONs (as child, teens, young adults until someone points us somewhere – like KTN site), and the narcissist parent (carer etc) does not know what they are – hence the ‘unaware’ behaviours come to the fore – as HG has worded in his comment. It really was like a ‘light-bulb’ moment when I read his words (what’s new about that?).
Looking back (not dwelling!!) – I can see how narcissists of my past ‘behaved’ like that too. It all makes sense but it’s a bugger because the rest of society around us and people around the world are not necessarily reading what we are saying here and effectively they are “slow” to “cotton on”……..
Narcissists don’t know what they are and we don’t know what we are dealing with … no wonder the world is in such a mess! We really need to get on top of this. Early education is a must. I can think of so many ways the topic could be introduced. And look at the wealth of material we have here to work with and share. There’s no doubt HGs legacy will be an enduring one in that respect.
LET, I agree with you RE: ” no wonder the world is in such a mess!”. Education is a key thing that needs to happen in schools. Yet, it is more the LOCE that the children are in – they cannot and do not have the option to pack a bag and leave, do they? So, in a way, it is ‘catch 22’ situation. One guarantee that would ‘force’ education is making it mandatory for those in authority to learn about narcissism. The issue with that is, how many of those in ‘authority’ are ACONs? How many of them are narcissists themselves?
Yes, totally agree what you said about HG’s Legacy. It’s a goldmine of resources. The world’s only ‘library’ on narcissism that is easily accessible.
Agreed, AspEmp, for children the LOCE is key. Part of the issue is that narcissism is not being recognized as the underlying problem in so many areas of concern, including child abuse, family violence, coercive control, etc. We recognize all these things without recognizing the actual cause. We put services in place, but lack the capacity to make them more effective without the knowledge of narcissism which often lies at their core. We don’t understand that the only method is escape as the ultimate solution. And how do we effect that for the number of people involved? For now it must be overcome on an individual basis. But, the more it is recognized, the more it can filter into our thinking. And the actions to expose it, as well as the remedy to overcome it, can begin to have more of an affect. That all begins with awareness and education.
As you say, many people in positions of authority and power could be classed as narcissists. It would be hard to imagine them facilitating the idea unless it was somehow to their benefit. But, the more escapes, the more the affect of narcissism is lessened in the community, and the better chance we have of beating the narcissist on a much bigger scale.
It’s a pipe dream for now. But every dream needs to have a starting point <3
LET, absolutely. One thing I have seen some young people say “It is not working, I do not understand why they are not listening” etc (if one is going through a support / therapy route to assist them in mental health services). Sometimes the authorities get it wrong by not explaining what is ie abuse, CPTSD etc. One of the most difficult parts is the fact the children / young people of such abuse / trauma are too young to understand their feelings / thoughts – that is the Catch 22, I would say. On the other hand, the person going through the ‘mental health system’ may be too traumatised to be able to have the ‘tenacity’ to look within themselves and talk about their experiences in detail before it can be ‘broken’ down into sections for discussion. That is one reason why I said therapy did not work for me.
GPs are the first point of ‘call’ to be able to be referred for such support services. Yet, a GP tells me “we need to work out what is causing your depression”. That is far too basic. Too generic. I mean, what is she specifically referring to, here? Another GP tells someone else “Oh, you’re just having difficulties at work”. Two GPs at the same surgery. Two GPs who were too ‘dismissive’. A Thousand Words here, one reason. Narcissist. Bloody hell!
The pipe dream as you say, is here, the starting point. Yet, it does not mean we can move on with our own dreams 🙂
Hi AspEmp, thanks for sharing more of your thoughts around that. It’s such an important area, in terms of mental health, to gain an understanding of what is going on, and I think I would apply the idea more to those who are working with the people impacted (i.e. professionals). I wouldn’t expect anyone in the throes of narcissistic abuse to be able to untangle their experience and see it for what it is in the moment. There is plenty of material here to indicate the variety of red flags which could be compared to their experience. If that were the case, people would not be directed back into those experiences with a pat on the back and a recommendation for couples counselling. They wouldn’t be given a pill to assuage their depression when the reality is they are being abused and need to escape their abusive situation. In a variety of scenarios a roadblock could be put into place without even having to mention narcissism in the first instance. It’s a redirection. And one that those in the know can apply without the victim having to initially sort through all the complexities of being involved in a narcissistic relationship. That information and understanding can come further down the road. And in the hope of preventing them from finding themselves in that situation again.
Right now, all I can think is how grateful I am again to have found my way here and finally untangled those mysteries which had kept me bound. The sad part is we have to go through it to find our way here. I have a feeling there is no way around that. Maybe only those who have been through it can really understand and impact others by sharing that knowledge. And maybe it just takes one person to say “I believe you” for the dominoes to begin to fall <3
LET, before I was on my supanova ‘path’, I was involved in a group of where young people (from around 15 or so) were in the “system” because of abuse, some of them shared that they got into the system, only to find they were not going into the ‘right’ direction because they were not being ‘understood’ properly so they ended up having to start the whole system “process” again because of a fk up along the way the firs time round. It was partly why this group was set up, to offer their experiences and ideas / suggestions to ‘re-designing’ some aspects of the so-called “system”. Experts By Experience can be the best source of ‘ideas’. We know that already. This group was also about giving young people a ‘voice’. Yet it was painful for them at times to even talk about it out loud but they were given the ‘space’ to be able to do so. Some places are doing better than others. It will take time, of course, because it has to be ‘argued’ in front of a panel of Decision Makers…….sigh. Another matter entirely!
Absolutely! Totally agree with you….just the one person who believes you can make such a difference to your life.
Thank you for sharing your views, LET 🙂
Littoral Operations in a contested environment ? Haha ?
HG …my older brother mentally abused me when I was very young. My mother would pass it off as normal siblings stuff. But I don’t care to get revenge by abusing other men who act like him ? Or do I ? I taught my son to not be verbally abusive to his sisters or girls . Why would you not want to heal that resentment …isn’t that like part of your brain is stuck ? Why does a narc not have that empathy ? Do you know yet …if it’s a part of our brain that grows or is either there or not there ? Or does that part get injured or a virus infects that part of the brain and eats the empathy … I know that sounds weird but ? What do you scientifically understand about formation of our brains . You don’t need to post this …LOL
Seeking to heal something which cannot be healed and does not need to be healed is pointless. I am designed not to engage in the pointless.
HG …but my question has more to do with the human brain … narcs brains and empaths brains . What caused the difference or is it just a matter of an area of the brain is emphasized or non existent ….what new scientific information have you discovered ? And where can I read about it ?