Do You See What I See?


One of the common themes in my sessions with Dr E and Dr O is their need (note not mine) to have me be aware of what I am. Of course I know what I am. I have always known I was different, special, superior and set apart. I was told as such too, actually it was beaten into me but that is for another time.  As ever, I gave them the impression that I was co-operating so I went along with their questioning. After all, they are asking about me so it is at least worth considering. Initially this was all about how I regarded myself. I enjoyed this part and I could have gone on for some time. They reported back to me that I consider myself as more intelligent than most people, that I am more amusing, I am more likeable and more successful. I am also more physically attractive than most people. So far, so obvious. They then also established that I am obsessed with power (who isn’t if they have any drive and ambition – you don’t become President by sitting there do you?). I am also impulsive. I agree. I am arrogant (I call it confidence but what’s in a word?) and I like to exaggerate my success and abilities. I explained I emphasise my success and abilities which may comes across as exaggerated (purely because many people never get that close to such success), but by explaining that to some people is necessary to get people to do what I want.

Things got interesting after that. The perfidious duo had been asking questions of others about how they perceived me. I was fascinated as they told me that the  respondent s´perceptions of me were accurate with regard to what I thought about myself. How about that for getting it right?  I was rather pleased. Dr O asked,

“Some of those traits could be viewed in a negative light. That is how other people see you. Does that not concern you that they view in a negative manner,” I was asked by Dr O.

I shook my head.

“You label it as negative. I regard those traits as strengths and it is clear that other people do as thy have clearly identified them with me.”

She raised her eyebrows (recently plucked I noticed) and remarked,

“What if I told you that those people do regard those traits as negative?”

I felt the sensation of irritation rising at such a comment. Only the envious would regard such traits as negative. There is nothing wrong with having an excellent conceit of oneself and one which is entirely justified and grounded in evidence. Just ask those I have vanquished and they would tell you. Well, the ones who are still able to speak would tell you.

“If they do then that is envy for you. Or I suppose they are too stupid to recognise the brilliance of what I do.,” I explained.

“Okay, but what if I was to tell you that those people are intelligent and they answered honestly and consistently?” she pressed.

I considered providing a response to this, a detailed explanation of how intelligence does not equate to an ability to understand, that honesty is often mistaken and consistency is a matter of perspective. I considered providing Dr O with such a forensic response but as my quickened mind formed the thoughts and sought to breathe life into them through articulation I stopped myself. No. I am not giving them the information that readily, to do so would be to offer up too much to them, too soon and deny me the entertainment of the good doctor finding this out through application. Let us test them. Let us make them earn their inflated payment. Come on good doctor, you are going to have to do much better than that. No, the detailed reply would be denied to them and instead I would offer them something they will have doubtless encountered many times and would be familiar to them.

 I shrugged.
I saw the slight flicker of surprise from Dr O at my lack of anticipated response. She expected a verbal landslide and I had denied it to her. Delicious. That moment, brief as it was, of her anticipation to receiving information which I just plucked away from her, causing surprise and a dash of annoyance was very short but every so worth it. A sprinkling of negative fuel. How marvellous. Dr O forged onwards, unfettered. Good. I dislike it when they give up too easily, I want the sport, I want to be entertained. I bore easily and therefore some pluck, some fight, some spunk, some boots, some petulance, some resistance is always desired. After all, the conquest is all the more to be savoured when the vanquished (and they always are vanquished) try to resist and fight back. The pathetic attempts to prevent the inevitable amuse me.
“Would you not rather they liked you for decent qualities such as honesty and trustworthiness,” she asked me.
My laugh of contempt began but I halted it. It was a stupid observation but I do not want her feeling stupid too soon otherwise she may give up. No, I am not going to crush her so quickly, in fact, I want to own her for some time, I want her to become a play thing for me and she will not become that if she feels ridiculed. I shall direct my contempt towards those who make the observations rather than her.
“I’m not bothered about whether they like me or not, I want them to admire me for what I am.”
I actually prefer them to fear me although admiration is not far behind, but we can get to fear in good time. Plenty to offer before I let them into more of the labyrinth.
I know precisely what I am. Anybody who tries to tell you that I am oblivious to it is a moron. I know full well what I am, what I do and what I achieve.
The difference is that some people regard what I am as a bad thing. I know they are wrong.
What I am is a good thing. The world needs people like me. Now is the time they begin to realise that.

97 thoughts on “Do You See What I See?

  1. NarcAngel says:


    Thank you for your response.

    Hi, WhoCares

    I knew HG would not considered it fear (as we might, because that would infer weakness), but wondered then what he might attribute it to.

  2. Gypsy Heart says:

    Hello HG. Hello everyone. I am proud to say that I have escaped my narcissist. Yes, even with the knowledge I’ve gained about narcissism I have landed myself in another toxic situation. It has been two weeks now and it is far from over. I’m pretty sure I’m going to need your help on this one HG, and I can afford it now.

    This article and your comments about emotional perception have been very valuable to me.I don’t know if you remember me but I am still here. I just haven’t commented in some time. However I felt inclined to comment on this article.

    Also my time on this site has been sporadic due to to my latest relationship with a narcissist. He caught me on this site once and asked me why I was so interested in narcissism. He asked me “why? Do you want to be one?” I did actually laugh at him.

    I was just having this converstion with a friend about how narcissists perceive emotions differently. I think that most people view narcissism as simply someone who is self centered and do not realize the depth of it all. I could see the look of shock in her face and was reminded of how unsettling this information was the first time I read about it on this site.

    I have somewhat got my emotional thinking down to a point where I am not completely paralyzed with fear. He also works with me. He has been obsessively stalking me at work and outside of work. Many co-workers have witnessed this behavior and even people at work that I don’t know.

    It finally got to a point that he was suspended at work. Legal services are reviewing the case. Luckily I work for a multibillion dollar company that has their hands in all kinds of business nation-wide, as well as internationally. They are taking this seriously.

    I let them have my phone to see just how crazy this guy can be. I didn’t block him immediately because I knew that he would blow up my phone. I only made two replies to the numerous texts he sent me. “Do not contact my phone, do not come to my apartment and do not approach me at work. It is over.” Not only did he blow up my phone before I blocked him, but he sent incriminating pictures and videos that could land him in prison for many many years.

    My next step was to go to the police station to inquire about filing for a pfa. They handed me a slip of paper to go on line and file with legal services, but were quite dismissive. I insisted on talking to an officer and requested them to drive by my apartment for welfare checks.

    At that point I saw him slowly driving by the police station as I was talking to an officer in front of the large windows. I emphatically proclaimed that’s him, that’s him as I jumped up and hid in a corner away from the windows. The officer immediately ran out the door watching him drive down the street as he called something in on his phone.

    He came back in, went to the back and immediately came back with a mug shot. “Is this him?” YES! They also asked if he was driving another vehicle that he sometimes drives. They knew exactly who he is.

    Then I came home and met with a coworker for safety refreshers and practice. I know my rights, and have discussed it with authorities. I will be practicing the second amendment.

    Later I was given some insider information from someone related to law enforcement in this town. They do believe he killed his wife although it couldn’t be proven. He also went to prison for 5 years after another IPPS ended up in the hospital. I was informed to keep it to myself that law enforcement was currently investigating him on two reoccurring crimes. Now I wait and plan my actions as this plays out.

    I’m sorry this comment is so long I have remained silent for nearly a year, observing, contemplating, and planning before acting. Now I am singing and I have so much to say.

    Thank you HG for sharing your perspective, and for allowing us to share our perspectives so that we may have a well rounded understanding of all involved in the complex dynamics of these types of relationships.

    1. Mercy says:

      Wow Gypsy Heart. That’s crazy. I hope you are staying somewhere safe??

      1. Gypsy Heart says:

        Thank you Mercy. I think I am safe. I am hypervigilant of my surroundings. I carry my protection with me everywhere I go. Even taking my dog out for a bathroom break, or my trips to the bathroom in my apartment. It is tucked under my pillow at night. It’s always at my side, except for when I go into the work place. Then it stays in my car. I stay in the light, and away from the bushes.

        Sorry I am just now responding. I’ve been working with legal representation and my temporary protective order went into effect today. My court date will be sometime in September. I was advised by my legal representative that this may anger him and to be careful.

        Since he has been suspended from work he continues to circle around the work place at break times sporting the middle finger and driving around the building in the am. with his lights off. We start work at 5:30 am. Coworkers in my neighborhood see him stalking me before and after work. I just sent pictures to the law firm today of him driving beside me while yelling out the window I love you. I have pretty much most of the people I work with helping me get pictures and video along with written, signed statements. I just hope he lands himself back behind bars so I can breathe again. If this isn’t a lesser narcissist, I don’t know what one is.

    2. WiserNow says:

      Hi Gypsy Heart,

      Thank you for sharing this. What a frightening situation! I hope you’re okay after going through that.

      It’s good that your workplace is taking it seriously and has suspended him. It’s also reassuring that the officer you spoke to saw him and the police know him and are investigating.

      Well done for taking action. Best wishes with it all.

      1. Gypsy Heart says:

        Thank you Wiser now. The day after I got my temporary restraining order I was in the office with HR for a good portion of the day on conference call with corporates legal team. I came back out and one of the new hires, a kid of about 21 was joking with me about whether or not I was going to work today. I told him I was dealing with a stalking, suspended coworker. He asked who and I told him his name. He said OMGI never thought I would hear that name again. He said his dad was close friends with this guy, and came to him in a panic the night his wife died. He did do it. Confessed to this guys dad. Bounced her head off the corner of the kitchen cabinet. This guy said his dad has passed away since then.

        1. WiserNow says:

          Gypsy Heart,

          Sounds like this guy is well known in your town from what you say. Amazing really. I hope you stay safe.

          Thanks for your message.

  3. NarcAngel says:

    I see a figure standing over a child in the frame. I see faces in the trees. I see what looks like a person walking away in the trees……..

    1. A Victor says:

      Oh wow!! I never saw anything hidden before! I see a wolf head/face in the frame and a black dragon flying up to the right of the wolf just outside the frame! The trees make the dragon but I didn’t even see them until I looked because of your comment. Wow, super cool picture, and I thought it was just pretty!

    2. NarcAngel says:

      No one? No one else sees a child in the bottom left corner of the frame when expanded? Clue hunters?

      1. A Victor says:

        I see it, very small, right under the Wolf’s face. I don’t see any people/faces in the trees.

      2. Another Cat says:

        I see the dragon standing over a child (the child has a hoodie). I’m trying to spot the faces in the trees, but can’t. A black shadow to the right from the frame is running away.

        1. A Victor says:

          AC, I think your hoodie is my wolf’s ear! Isn’t it funny how we all see different things! I can see what you see now though also. So interesting.

          1. Another Cat says:

            I think I was looking for NarcAngel’s child. Had she not suggested it, I would only have seen dragons. One of my sons is an empath, I believe. He is rather thin and often wears hoodies, so I suppose I always notice children with hoodies.

            Focusing on the wolf now, A Victor.

          2. A Victor says:

            I wish I could outline it, so clear once you see it.

      3. Asp Emp says:

        NA, well, I looked and looked… is interesting what people’s minds think they see….some may say a dragon, others may say a phoenix in the trees. The sun is maybe a spirit? In the foreground looks like decking / floorboards / timber floor (the lodge?) yet it is also gentle ripples on the surface of water (the lake?) with mist on the sides. Is it snow and / or stars? Within the frame, is there a teddy bear? Two small figures within both sides of the frame? Is there a face with a veil on the right hand side?

        I am reminded of ‘Pilgrimage of Ice and Snow’ ; words within the thread on ‘Asylum of the Grotesque’…….a picture can ‘say’ a thousand words……

      4. Truthseeker6157 says:

        Sorry NA, I can’t see anything hidden, just swirly mist.

      5. Mercy says:

        NA, I don’t see the child but I do see the faces in the trees again. I also see what you mean about a figure standing over something. I get the sense of a large force standing over something vulnerable, I’m just not seeing the actual figures you’re seeing. I’m also intrigued by the wolf that A Victor mentioned but I don’t see it.

        Side note, I see a teeny tiny space ship in the moon.

        1. NarcAngel says:

          Hi Mercy. I have wondered about you and am relieved to see you are well.

          1. Mercy says:

            Hi NA, surprisingly I am doing well, thank you. I updated WC on the latest news. If you are interested, its on “How the narcissist turns a trait against you”. I don’t want to bore the guy in the sky with another long post. 

            As far as the images,  I still think you all are a little bat shit crazy but only because I can’t see them! I see the faces in the trees. I’ve always seen them but the rest I just get vibes. Not actual images. Maybe I’m the one that’s cray cray.

          2. Bubbles says:

            Dearest Mercy,
            No lovely, I think we’re all on a small dose of CBD oil
            Mr Tudor has us all hypnotised
            Luv Bubbles xx 😘

      6. Fiddleress says:

        Hello NA
        I see a teddy bear in the bottom left corner of the frame, when expended.

        And a sort of dragon made of mist, born out of the light reflecting in the mirror (at least I see the wings of a dragon). Reminiscent of the beginning of Excalibur, the movie (and of the legend surrounding the conception of King Arthur).

        1. A Victor says:

          The wolf’s nose, bottom center going right, a less misty darker area, is also the vision for a person sitting in an easy chair, a man, facing away, tirade tree right, from the kneeling boy behind him. It might be too sad, I feel like it could be HG praying for help and his dad turning away, watching tv or reading the newspaper.

          The wolf’s left ear, right as we face it, is barely higher than the other one 2/3 of the way up and close to the tight dude of the frame. It looks like the wolf is protective of the boy, I think it is the narcissism. It is such a sad picture.

          1. A Victor says:

            Oh no, too many typos! Going too fast, I’m sorry!

      7. Mel says:

        I see a dragon. Smooth head to the left, wings behind and extending out of the frame.

      8. Asp Emp says:

        Impressive, NA, to see what you have started 😉 But it’s great to see people’s perspectives – isn’t the mind a wonderful thing? (sometimes).

      9. Bubbles says:

        Dearest NarcAngel,
        Hi gorgeous, how ya doin ?
        I’m actually under the sea.
        I see a dolphin, jellyfish, a small person hugging either a large fish with white lips or a teddy bear with lipstick
        There’s a man in the forest with a suit hat n tie…. that’s Mr Tudor
        Guess what ? That’s based on only had biodynamic red wine tonight 🤣
        Luv Bubbles xx 😘

        1. Bubbles says:

          Dearest NarcAngel,
          Correction, man in forest is Mr Tudor senior

      10. njfilly says:

        I see pot smoke obscuring my reflection in the mirror.

    3. wildviolet22 says:

      Inside the frame, I see a dolphin and a teddy bear.

    4. NarcAngel says:

      The child I see is in the bottom left and appears to be sleeping with their head on a pillow turned to the side. The bird, dragon, hooded figure much larger and formed from the mist over them. I see many others things but I think you may have to be practised a bit to see them. The child in this one looked to me to be more easily recognized for those who may not have noticed the images before, so I thought I would ask here for those interested. Another easy one is an article with the ink drawing of a girl crying. You can see things near her ear etc.

      I bring this up for 2 reasons:

      The accompanying photos to the articles often (but not always) contain many other images that are missed unless you specifically look for them. Once again, as with his teachings, HG shows us that there is often more than meets the eye (at least initially), and practising deeper skills of observation can help us in our interactions with others. Not that we need to scrutinize everything but to be open to that which we may not see initially. To observe a little closer when we think we might see something…

      The images have meaning and are helpful to clue hunters in the Knowing HG series and forum where some of them have been confirmed.

      I’m not crazy, my mother had me tested (Sheldon from Big Bang).

      1. A Victor says:

        NA, I see a very small image, lower left hand side, of what appears to be an adult leaning or kneeling over a child who’s prone on a bed. It is quite clearly there but very vaguely formed, if that makes sense.

        Doesn’t anyone else see the wolf head? It almost fills the frame. It’s quite beautiful.

      2. Sweetest Perfection says:

        I love Sheldon. And no, having a multifaceted perspective and an active imagination and seeing what others can’t see is not being crazy, NA, but being intelligent.

    5. A Victor says:

      It is a man kneeling! It’s a side shot, his head is facing the left, feet to the right, his back is touching the right cheek, left as we face it, of the wolf! The wolf’s right ear is above above that, the snout is in tree lower right hand corner. The man looks to be troubled, like he’s praying or something and like he’s wearing pajamas and he’s not as small as I originally thought. But maybe he’s a child?? This is what I’m seeing now, it is more clear. Thank you for starting this!

    6. Anne says:

      Smoke and mirrors

  4. A Victor says:

    This is my favorite image, well, one of three anyway. And the article is a favorite also. So interesting for seeing how narcissists think.

  5. Asp Emp says:

    Yes. I see a great image.

    “actually it was beaten into me”…..I recall such similar ‘treatment’ it’s almost like using a hammer to nail into something. My ET is ok as I say this. At the same time, it’s like WTF, it is not ‘normal behaviour’ as there is no explanation, no ‘mentoring’, no education – in my perception – as to what it is that I was being “accused” of.

    “I gave them the impression that I was co-operating so I went along with their questioning” and “No. I am not giving them the information that readily, to do so would be to offer up too much to them, too soon” and “Plenty to offer before I let them into more of the labyrinth. I know precisely what I am. Anybody who tries to tell you that I am oblivious to it is a moron. I know full well what I am, what I do and what I achieve”

    In what I have read to date, in my view, it is about ‘playing your cards close to your chest’ until you are ready to deliver the plans of the Grand Design. Especially after reading ‘Knowing HG’ series.

    “The world needs people like me. Now is the time they begin to realise that”. Exactly. Looking at it from the perspective of an empowered ACON.

  6. sober tyger says:

    What is fear to the narcissist? You have written about things narcissists fear yet it also seems you guys don’t fear…. it’s confusing.

    Are the answers found in narcissism vis a vis psychopathy?

    Thank You

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Narcissists experience fear, psychopaths process fear so as not recognise it.

      1. WhoCares says:

        I grasp how narcissists experience fear (at least from what you’ve explained to us.)
        But this statement is confusing, HG:

        “psychopaths process fear so as not recognise it.”

        Doesn’t something have to be recognized in order to be processed? How do you identify it then, if you don’t feel it (fear)?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          “Christ HG, that was fucking terrifying, I thought they were going to catch us. I was shitting myself.”
          (I felt nothing).

          Thus I recognise that this was a situation where that individual felt fear. I did not. I know that situation induces fear in others, it does not in me.

          1. Asp Emp says:

            HG, laughing….at your words in the first paragraph…… it reminds me of the number of occasions as such ‘oh, shit, quick, run!’ moments at school……laughing…… I am still not guilty! It was not necessarily fear related, it was more of excitement, being teenagers and all that……like when I broke a plate cos the “welsh rarebit” on the toast that was too hard, the fork went right through and broke the plate but the toast was intact! I just shoved the broken plate within the other plates……laughing….a lot of people got away with that ‘method’ and no breakage charges…..ah, thank you for the prompt to remember.

          2. alexissmith2016 says:

            really, really helpful thank you. So you’re aware but do not experience it.

          3. HG Tudor says:

            You’re welcome

          4. WhoCares says:

            Thank-you for that example. That matches what you’ve shared (and my understanding) in the KHG series – that you learned to recognize fearful reactions in others and, as a result, realized that that reaction is absent in you.

          5. HG Tudor says:


          6. Truthseeker6157 says:

            I have questions too. What if psychopaths do experience fear but are fearful of things that other people do not find frightening?
            Commitment. Showing vulnerability. Lack of control. Isn’t this still fear?

            Psychopaths mis label emotions. So if we were to play Russian Roulette, I might describe the experience as terrifying. My hands would shake, I would sweat. Physically I would show fear. HG might feel similarly. His life is after all, in the balance. However, he is likely to describe the experience as exciting. Similar response, different label. Is this what you mean by processing?

            Show a psychopath a series of frightening / shocking images he will remain calm. The psychopath is not affected by the same fear stimuli as the non psychopath. This still doesn’t prove they don’t feel fear at all.

            New research suggests psychopaths do feel fear. They don’t physically manifest fear in the same way though. Their physicality is different. Their blood pressure doesn’t go up, they don’t sweat, heart rate stays stable etc. So to all intents and purposes they appear not to feel fear when comparing physical reactions with those of non psychopaths.

            Psychopaths are also often paranoid. Paranoia in my view has to be based in fear. The wolves unexpectedly and unusually circle the cave on Monday night. The caveman therefore becomes paranoid of wolves circling the cave every night. Paranoia is arguably just a different fear than the rest of us experience on a regular basis.

            Honestly, fear is an evolutionary defence designed to keep us alive. I’m not convinced the psychopath is so far ahead in evolutionary terms. Or alternatively, so far behind.

            I’m not meaning to be argumentative HG, just questioning in line with what I’ve read.

          7. HG Tudor says:

            Paranoia is an unjustified mistrust. From your perspective it is seen as unjustified, but not from our because the perception of the threat to control is genuine. Paranoia will create anxiety in many narcissists, since the narcissism creates a feeling and a thought to galvanise the narcissist to take action. I do not experience anxiety, I maintain a vigilance based on the correct apprehension of threat to the issue of control.

            My life has been in the balance on certain occasions. I did not experience fear. I was focussed on ensuring I regained control and I did so. I was motivated by controlled fury.

          8. Truthseeker6157 says:

            “I was motivated by controlled fury.”

            That’s a very interesting and useful response. Thank you HG.

          9. Asp Emp says:

            TS, that is from HG’s perspective.

            Someone else may say, for example, ‘determination’ not to become subservient to the opponent. Another person may act on their primal instincts. Someone’s brain may kick in on the survival mechanisms. I am talking from my own personal experiences here – from these 3 examples. I have talked about them on this blog 🙂

          10. A Victor says:

            Asp Emo, exactly, as with our startle reflex, does HG have this, as an example of an instinctive response? Or controlling fight or flight where we have much less control? Etc.

          11. A Victor says:

            Asp Emp, sorry about misspelling your name in the other comment.

          12. Asp Emp says:

            AV, no need to apologise AV. It’s fine, 🙂

          13. A Victor says:

            Of course, the reaction to controlled futy, which then causes the determination, is the ‘instinctive’ response. And it happens in half a heartbeat. Or less. Pieces are falling into place, maybe…

          14. Joa says:

            Oh no! As if I heard the words of “my” narcissist 🙁

            Despite its seemingly innocent life (the facade) quite often oscilates on the verge of the law. He gets into very uninteresting stories. There he comes true with his innocent, helpful boy face and composure. Precisely because he doesn’t feel fear.

            Disgusting world. So different from mine.

            “I like this thrill” – he said when he called me during the action … Then he did not speak for a long time to make me nervous.

            Paranoia – I know something about it too. At one point in the relationship, I thought he was crazy.

          15. A Victor says:

            Joa, my ex did not feel fear either and he was highly capable of responding to any threat or percieved threat. I believe it is why he did not worry about me cheating. And also why he was mostly very mellow, nothing riled him up.
            He also had a diagnosis of ASPD. The more I learn about it, the more clear it becomes. He also had the dark triad as a teen/young man. I don’t know if that continues into their adulthood, I didn’t see it much when I was with him, only traces, but I heard many things from various people about him from birth, he was always different. He learned to charm very early, elementary school, he told me about that, very proud of his charming abilities.

          16. NarcAngel says:

            If it is not fear that causes you to seek fuel to apply layer upon layer to the construct to keep the creature at bay and from escaping, what emotion do you assign it?

          17. HG Tudor says:


          18. Asp Emp says:

            Determination. Tenacity. Same thing. Good on you, HG.

            Do they see what I, you, other people and everyone else see?

            Either Yes, or No.

            Since it has been suggested, strongly suggested that narcissism has always existed within humanity, who is to argue that psychopaths have not? Who is to argue whether other neurological “conditions” did not exist since the start of humanity? Who knows for a fact that this is not the case? No-one does. However, no-one can argue the fact that psychological patterns in the brain can be “re-wired” through environmental factors (LOCE) and social factors (again, LOCE). Whether DNA plays a factor or not.

            Writing the words as above, I am reminded of HG’s video ‘Woke : The Rise of Narcissism to the Left’ and part of my comment on ‘What Fuel Feels Like to a Narcissist’……

            “Fuel for a narcissist. Emotion for an empath.
            Both are human beings. Both are fundamentals to human ‘survival’. Both are ‘catalysts’ to each other. By ‘distorted’ mathematics of science. The ‘sums’ don’t add up, yet they are atomically a combination of neutrons and electrons. All because of the neurological DNA that humans have evolved over the millennia because of the environmental factors. Caused by the human race”

            Aspergers was not “discovered” until 1940’s.

            Since the concept of ‘DNA’ was not discovered much earlier than around 150 years ago, it is only in the last century or so that scientists have begun to understand more about the human body and the human mind. Because they have improved equipment and technology (ie MRI scanning, this, apparently was ‘passed’ for clinical use in USA around 2017, less than 4 years ago) to be assist them better at their job.

            So, prior to that, what happened to people who may have had Aspergers? Alexithymia? Schizophrenia? They were locked away in a sanatorium. Or sent to Workhouses. Treated worse than animals. They were humans.

            These days, if anyone as much as smacks their child for swearing, WTF? All hell is raised. The authorities get involved, etc.

            So what if there are narcissists in this world? So what if there are people with neurological “conditions” in this world? If they do not directly impact your life, then you are not impacted. You can learn about them, choose to understand them. You can learn to ‘safeguard’ yourself (and your descendants).

            We should be thankful, grateful, appreciative and respect that KTN site exists.

            To one ACON from another, thank you, HG, for listening and being here. A warm hug to you.

            PS thank you for your time on my comments 🙂

          19. A Victor says:

            So this is how my ex’s fury may have manifested, why I didn’t see it as fury. He also did not exhibit anxiety or paranoia. Interesting. And it is more a matter of processing fear in a different way than way than normals or empaths than a lack of ability to ‘have’ fear then.

          20. A Victor says:

            Especially since it is not recognized as something to be fearful of.

          21. WhoCares says:


            I think you are right in calling the emotional response of the narcissist to the creature ‘fear’ – but that feeling never reaches HG because of his effectiveness, and then of course, he doesn’t have the other fear that most of us can identify with (fear of bodliy harm, pain, risk, etc.)

          22. Witch says:

            Determination you know

          23. Truthseeker6157 says:

            Asp Emp,

            I agree. Different people might respond differently to different fear stimuli, or they might through learning respond differently to the same fear stimuli over time.

            I think HG’s response illustrates, that similar to regret and the narcissist, where the narcissism throws out regret as a hindrance to fuel acquisition, then the psychopathy throws out fear as a hindrance to physical survival. The priority being the need to think clearly, regain control /act, find the escape route for example.

            The ignition of fury is an instinctive response to threat to control. Here the fury is harnessed in a controlled way to retain composure and solve ‘the problem’ which in this case happens to be threat to life.

            You would expect to see a fear response when life is threatened as most people fear death. If you don’t fear death then threat to life is less of a problem. It’s possible that HG doesn’t fear physical death but perhaps more of a mental death. That’s just me speculating.

            It would be useful to know if control over something instinctive translates to control over an impulse.

          24. Asp Emp says:

            TS, interesting to read your perspective on this.

            RE: “The ignition of fury is an instinctive response to threat to control” – I can relate to this in my own way – it may not be classed as ‘ignition of fury’, on occasion it may have been. Other occasions, similar to a narcissist’s ‘withdrawal’. Or maybe direct / indirect ‘assertion of control’. Oops, ‘Why Am I Behaving Like A Narcissist’ springs to mind. External stressors. ACON’s experiences. It all relates.

            Thank you for your views, good to read, TS 🙂

          25. A Victor says:

            Hi TS, my ex’s apparent lack of fear manifested in his doing extreme risky behaviors. There is an element of magical thinking involved but it is more than that, it appeared to me as not comprehending the risk, but I think he did comprehend it but processed it differently, just as “How do I best get control back (or keep it) here”. Absolute focus. No practical fear of death but huge determination to not lose control, fury fueling the determination with laser like intensity.

            I also don’t think he had control over instinctive behaviors, I don’t think he has instincts like we do. He wasn’t self protective, fight or flight, he was ‘get control back’. Nothing startled him. I think he didn’t process a threat the way we do, so a capacity for fear perhaps but not recognizing situations where he should be afraid.

            It is always interesting to read your thoughts, it is helping me sort through this stuff even when it comes out muddled and fractured, eventually it will make sense.

          26. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Who was about to catch you? Please, we need more!

          27. Truthseeker6157 says:

            Asp AV

            Thank you for your responses to my comments. I’m glad my trawling for information is food for thought.

            My main objective was to look at the Ultra and better understand how psychopathy sits with narcissism so as to get a more rounded view of how HG’s own increased awareness of himself and his understanding of us might impact how he operates going forward.

            I have to keep reminding myself of my objective as I get pulled into looking at so many different aspects! I’ll continue exploring the psychopathy side as I knew next to nothing about it to start with. I’ll quieten down a bit about what I’m finding until I reach some more concrete conclusions and form a clearer opinion. The site is about narcissism not psychopathy and I have been graciously moderated thus far.

            Time to wind my neck in a bit!


          28. A Victor says:

            Same. It is so interesting though and specifically to my ex for me. But not for here, you are correct. Until/unless HG says it’s okay at least. 🙂

      2. Alexissmith2016 says:

        Process it so as not to recognise it? Could you expand a little HG?

      3. Sweetest Perfection says:

        Psychopaths are the masters of mindfulness.

    2. Liza says:

      From what I could see, it seems that psychopaths don’t have the “what if” syndrome. What generates fear in non-psychopathic people is the perspective of a bad scenario happening, like if your run you imagine in the same time what would happen to you if you get caught, if you get injured you imagine how bad it could have been ext… and it is done automatically and quickly. Psychopaths seem to care only for the current situation, if they are running, they run that’s it, if they work on an important project all their energy is directed towards working on the projects not imagining how horrible it would be if they fail ext…
      I noticed it in a friend of mine that I suspect of being a psychopath, like for him there is no before and no after this moment t, when we do something I and start with my what-ifs, it is like I’m speaking a foreign language, he would either ignore me and continue doing what he does, or just tell me that right now we are doing this and not that that. I managed to convince myself with the “what if ” thing because even in myself who is sadly not a psychopath, I get fearful and stress about things that didn’t happen because it is blurry and full of uncertainty, but when an actual problem does happen it always less painful than what imagined and most of the time it is actually underwhelming.

      1. NarcAngel says:

        I tend to agree for the most part with the adage that “fear is a story you tell yourself”. We are free to choose another story.

      2. Truthseeker6157 says:

        Hi Liza,

        I totally understand what you mean with the ‘What if?’ syndrome. I am exam phobic, or close to it. ‘ What if’ cripples me. What if I fail? What if I miss the required grade? What if I don’t get in to uni? On and on it goes with the ‘what if’s’ to the point of total panic. Then I really can’t think, am more likely to fail or miss the grade etc etc.

        I have had wise counsel on this of late and logically, if you do the work you get the projected grade and you don’t fail. You could translate that to focussing not on fear of failure but instead on what needs to be done to ensure success. Similarly, I think confidence plays a part too. Confidence would equal the assumption of success. Lack of confidence the assumption of failure.

        Your comment got me thinking about HG’s response to being chased and not experiencing fear. There is no ‘what if’ in the future, as you said, there is the now and control must be obtained in the now. Similarly there is self confidence or in HG’s case elevated grandiosity. People like HG don’t get caught. People like HG don’t bow down to authority, capture or anything else.

        So you could say the fearlessness comes from a variety of traits in action. Some narcissistic leaning, some psychopathic leaning.

        Need for control. ( I won’t get caught because I am asserting control over the outcome.)
        Goal orientation. ( focus on the objective of solving the escape problem in the now)
        Grandiosity. ( I am smarter, faster, stronger and therefore I don’t get caught)
        Ignited fury. ( adrenaline injection, determination, faster thinking and responses with controlled release)
        Need for fuel. ( secured by the affirmative response of the accomplice plus thought fuel)

        Logically then the fear response is processed in such a way as to make it redundant even though HG’s life is being threatened.

        Just a basic attempt at a hypothesis based on both narcissistic and psychopathic traits. I’m liking the traits!

        In terms of your friend, narcissists also live in the moment. Control is required in this moment, the next and the next. So your friend might just as easily be a narcissist focussing on a task in the moment rather than a psychopath who isn’t experiencing fear. I think!

        Your comment got me thinking, thank you!

        1. A Victor says:

          TS, “Confidence would equal the assumption of success.” Exactly!! My ex never doubted he could handle any situation he decided to handle! And in my ex’s case, when he got caught, he still retained the confidence. There is a mugshot of him smiling! It made me sickwhenI saw it but now I understand it. In no mugshot did he ever look like I would if I got arrested, scared maybe, or worried about my future. I think their fear response is simply processed to take action, no sense of fear involved, I don’t even think they recognize things as something to be fearful of, so sure are they of handling it. I think there is an element of self preservation that comes into play when something comes along that coulddamage their body, the will move out of the way of a car or take cover in the eventof a gun, but not the same motivator as we would have, i think, ours being terror, they’re being avoiding an injury and physical pain. Thank you again for helping me sort through this, your comments are making me think.

          1. Truthseeker6157 says:


            You’re welcome. Glad you are finding the discussion helpful.

          2. Asp Emp says:

            TS, thank you for your response. RE: your second paragraph, in my view, in relation to HG’s understanding of us and increased awareness of himself as an individual does not really have an ‘impact’ on how he operates going forward. One thing for sure, he is not going ‘backwards’ in anything he does, or does not do. He’ll operate in his own way that works best for him and that way, he’ll also continue to do what he set out to do originally. Always ‘evolving’ with anything he picks up on his journey through his Legacy.

            A couple of days ago, I read a bit into schizophrenia – only because I am interested in understanding more about the traits that appear similar to ie doctors / health professionals (those who do not really know about the different neurological “conditions”). Nothing really to do with HG or his work on KTN. What I did find was interesting but have not gone into detail on this site – as you say, this site is about narcissism.
            Yet, HG’s understanding about the human psyche has led me to look into other aspects of the neurological that does have an impact on the emotional.

            In my opinion, ‘The Ultra’ is a label (sorry HG, if this offends in any way) with a description of the characteristics of The Ultra. HG is HG, as an individual with a variety of traits that makes him the person he is. Just like the description given for Aspergers, that ‘label’ does not define the person that I am, or who I am.

            That’s why I say applying ‘labels’ to people is not necessarily the right way to really ‘look’ at a person. Some people may have a combination of various ‘conditions’ as classification lists made up by scientists but more often than not, get one or two “labels” stuck to them.

            Using it as an example (because we understand his system) if you look at HG’s ‘system’ RE: schools, sub schools and cadres – the school (ie the trunk of a tree) being the ‘core’ characteristics, the sub schools being the ‘branches’ the cadres being the leaves. The roots, maybe apply the core human characteristics that we all have, underpinned by our unique personality traits?

            The problem is the fact that not all the DSM5 as the way it is designed does not give ‘room’ to ‘permit’ all the ‘conditions’ to interlink in a way like a tree appears to us visually.

            Looking forward to your ‘conclusions’ of your research. Good to read your views, TS 🙂

          3. Truthseeker6157 says:


            I think I see HG as a little more machine like than you do! Haha.

            There are a few YouTube videos where Keith Campbell is interviewed. You might find them interesting. He is a Professor of Psychology at Virginia University who has been studying narcissism for 30 years.

            The first thing to note is that in terms of his view of narcissism and how it functions, the videos are next to useless. In some cases his views are bordering on dangerous. The suggestion that narcissists can change through therapy etc. Shockingly unhelpful. I do think he is referring to narcissistic people rather narcissists a lot of the time, but that isn’t made clear. He does however talk about traits, not specific to narcissism as such, just traits psychologists measure, the way he looks at them. I thought that was more helpful. If looking at other disorders you might find some of his concepts of interest.


          4. Asp Emp says:

            TS, you BAD, BAD girl! HG is NOT a machine!! He is human, just like you and me. No doubt he’d be ‘wounded’ by that……you naughty girl, TS!

            As for your descriptions RE: this ‘guy’ studying narcissism for 30 years does not make him an expert, from the sound of it (I have not looked and will take a look at one video and have a look for ‘signs’ whether I am looking at a narcissist, or not, ho hum……), if your view on his videos basically crap, you have provided the answer?

            Of course, the guy would state that narcissists can “change” because he is helping them create (form) more ‘effectiveness’, so of course, a narcissist can become a more ‘aware’ narcissist (either they are or not) with more ‘tools’ to use in the future. So, in turn, a narcissist can ‘develop’ and become more ‘adept’ at the chameleon behaviours….. good on him, developing more ‘powerful’ narcissists – that is simply my view…… AND, from what HG has shared about his interactions with the good doctors…..if he can develop increased awareness about himself as an individual, empowering himself through the doctors as an ACON…, if HG is a “machine”, so am I. I was constructed too.

          5. A Victor says:

            Hi Asp Emp, “you BAD, BAD girl! HG is NOT a machine!!” I had the same thought on one hand, but, I do see what TS means, machine-like, thinking of Ex Machina. And HG might actually take that as a compliment. He does seem to admire machines more than humans. 🙂

          6. Truthseeker6157 says:


            Am I bad? Maybe. In some ways I think HG might almost take it as a compliment. He is more concerned about his effectiveness than being liked after all.

            That is where his focus lies, effectiveness. If HG acquires information as he has via the good doctors, the blog and consultations I find it difficult to believe that he won’t find a way to use it to its fullest advantage. He readily admits the good doctors made him more effective.

            That’s not to say this is a negative thing. Far from it. HG’s approach to information will be systematic and analytical though, he won’t be hindered by emotion as you or I would be. This is what I mean by machine like. Yes HG is a person, just like you or I. I don’t subscribe to the recommended ‘it’ approach in any way shape or form as HG is already aware.

            In my view I think any evolution will be positive rather than negative. Hopefully with positive benefits for those around him as well as for himself. My hope is for a win win.

            The researcher I mentioned was unhelpful in terms of narcissism itself. His work as regards personality, the self and traits I found of interest. That largely would depend on level of understanding though. I was coming at it with very little understanding. I’m finding I can take elements of some research and leave others. Again that’s just my approach.

            I’m scared to go to the supermarket now.

            “Daddy’s home!”


          7. A Victor says:

            Haha, yes, be careful out there!! You and he are on the same island!!

          8. Truthseeker6157 says:


            Actually, I’d just nod, (so he knows it’s me) half smile and then, once he’s locked on, say sultrily…..

            “Well are you just going to stand there looking ripped? Or are you going to carry these to my car?”


          9. A Victor says:

            Hahaha, well, you’d have better self control than I would then! Thanks for the giggle!!

        2. Liza says:

          Hello Truthseeker6157, I hope you have been well.

          I agree with you about the self-confidence part, most of what generates my worries indeed is because I’m never sure that I can do something even if I had already done it correctly several times. Like I still feel that I was just lucky all those times and maybe this time I will fail and embarrass myself, so my head slowly becomes a torture chamber in which i will remain until the moment when I have to do the task in question, and reality is never as horrible as I imagined it would be, and it makes me feel stupid and almost disappointed, like all of this just for this ….-_-” …….I want a refund on my worries, give me back my pessimistic thoughts !!!!

          I also agree with NA’s statement “fear is a story you tell yourself” but not the last part “We are free to choose another story” maybe I reject responsibility or I don’t have the right mindset, but I don’t feel like I have the choice. When it is over, I recognize that I was unreasonable and sometimes i can’t even believe that I was thinking like that, but at the moment it is like a loop, and nothing else exists, as if my life is conditioned to solving that (unexisting) problem, or else everything will fall apart. I’m not like that 100% of the time, just sicles.

          I don’t think that friend is a narcissist, we have been friends since middle school, and he is one of the people I spend most of my time with so i could see how he behaves in all kinds of situations, he doesn’t care about getting attention, he is very calm and collected and most of the time well behaved, he just doesn’t display a lot of emotions, he has a very little group of close friends but he has mostly a lot of shallow friendships that are contextual, especially in the dating area he has friends with bénéfits, not real girlfriends but he is very clear about it, he doesn’t try to make them think that he is in love or anything, and like I said I never see him worry or get scared, or even startled by thunder or something.

          1. Truthseeker6157 says:

            Hey Liza,

            I’m well, I hope you are too x

            Yes, I know what you mean. My exam thing started when I was consistently top of my year so I had no reason to believe I would fail. The good results didn’t appear to build any form of confidence in me at all. Im confident in all other areas, just not there. There can be lots of reasons behind why we behave that way I think. Fear of letting people down, fear of being evaluated.
            Knowing why you feel the way you do is likely a good place to start. It doesn’t always help. It’s like someone saying, ‘Stop worrying about it.’ If it was that easy you don’t think I’d have stopped worrying about it myself?!

            Fear and the Empathic Victim is a useful bulletin. If you haven’t listened to that, it might be a good starting point for you.

            You might be right about your friend. If you spend a lot of time with him the NDC is always an option for you too. I’m sure HG could offer some insight.

            Things here are busy. The kids are off school just now but Im enjoying having them home. We go to the beach next week I’m hoping for some sun, it isn’t looking too promising right now though!

            How are you Liza?


          2. Liza says:

            Hello A Victor,

            I think you are right, the more time one spends thinking about something instead of actually doing it the more it will seem hard and daunting, procrastination is a real enemy.


            I’m happy that you finished school, no more exam stress, all of this is over and ill never come back. It is actually one of the rare areas I don’t stress, not that I’m genius that tops everything, far from it, I just know in which subjects I’m going to have a good grade and the subject I will fail. I wouldn’t be stressing about a chemistry exam for example, I know I’m a zero in chemistry, I have no interest in it and no intention of improving, so I WILL get a bad grade no suspense, no worries. My stress is more in interpersonal areas, or when I know that my decisions will also have an impact on others or would be displayed and judged.

            ‘Stop worrying about it.’ If it was that easy you don’t think I’d have stopped worrying about it myself?! ha ha that really amused me, like ” I was sitting there enjoying my best life, and then I decided that I will ruin it all and spend a bad day”

            Oh, it is really cool that you get to spend time with your children, if you have the opportunity to take them to the sea that would be amazing, children generally love to swim, and given the context it is a good idea to go to an outdoor and large place.

            I’m also fine thank you, just (my unpopular opinion) I hate summer, I have an aversion for heat, the smallest drop of sweat is enough to ruin my mood until the time I get to shower, so I mostly spend my days plotting and fabricating credible lies to reject my family and friend’s invitations to any activities that would require me going outside.

          3. Truthseeker6157 says:


            You need to move here, we have had one week of heat this summer! One week! You would love it!

            I love heat, dry heat, humidity is draining. I lived in South Carolina for a while, I know what you mean, sometimes being outside in that kind of humidity is just not pleasant.

            I love Summer, dread Autumn. I hate seeing leaves fall from the trees. I like the way it looks but dread what it represents. Months of cold and wet weather, short dark days. I’m trying not to think about it.

            It’s strange how different things get to us isn’t it? I’m the opposite to you, in the sense that if people are involved, I’m not nervous. I tend to play to a crowd, so presentations or meetings are fine. I don’t like a faceless evaluation. Anything you could even loosely call a test. No one to win over when it’s a test. It sounds like people’s opinion’s of you possibly concern you more than the task itself, which you are doubtless capable of doing. For you it isn’t the task it’s the people. For me it isn’t the people it’s the task! We should team up!! Problem solved! Haha!

            I’m looking forward to the change of scene. The weather is supposed to be 21 degrees so it’s just about warm enough not to spoil the trip. Keep your fingers crossed for me!

          4. Liza says:


            “presentations or meetings are fine” I call this a superpower, and i mean it, because for me, those two words are the definition of a nightmare. Having a group of people looking at me and giving me all their attention is one of the most distressing situations I can be in, I can’t describe the amount of energy it takes for me to remain there and simply not run away or hide my face. Written tests are ok, emails are ok, text messages are ok, but face-to-face meetings are reserved for people I know and feel safe with.

            I live by the meditation sea, here, summer starts in May and it is still hot in October, these days temperatures exceed 40°c sometimes, so 21°c is really not a big issue. I hope you will get nice weather, so you could spend a nice moment with your family.

            PS: please don’t get angry Mr.Tudor, I promise it is the last message in which i’m discussing the weather ^^

          5. Truthseeker6157 says:

            Hi Liza,

            Haha, same here, great test takers are gods! 😂

            I really don’t know why I don’t have difficulty in presentations yet do in tests. It has to be down to people influencing. If there a people in a room I believe I can influence them. Bring them on side at least. If they aren’t in front of me and I can’t influence then the evaluation element knocks me sideways.

            Don’t know if you can find anything here that might help but I’ll give it a go.

            I am always well prepared. I talk to myself in the shower practicing for days in advance. I estimate the questions I’ll be asked and prepare answers. I’ll lead a line of questioning onto areas I’m most confident in. I won’t pretend I know an answer if I don’t know an answer. I don’t wing it. I’ll admit that I haven’t considered the question and will provide an answer at a later date. I don’t always give the majority or favoured opinion if I disagree. Im a straight shooter. I’ll tend to make a joke early on. Doesn’t matter what it is. I do that a lot actually. It removes the barrier a bit if people chuckle. It diffuses any nerves I might have as well. It gives the illusion Im confident even though I might not be. Lastly, I dress to kill haha! I’ll be immaculate in a meeting or presentation and I’ll be there ten minutes early. Those little things help me. I suppose they minimise chances of things going wrong whilst making me feel more comfortable.

            Reading that I think my narcissistic traits light up in meetings / presentations. A lot of it hinges on control, pride and not being surprised / beaten.

            Hope that helps!

            Thank you for the holiday good wishes. So far it looks like I might just land lucky! Your summer sounds fantastic but the 40 degrees I might struggle with. I’d give it a good go though! Where is the Meditation sea? Is it a rogue spell correct for Mediterranean? My geography is woeful! (never wing it!)


          6. Liza says:


            Your ideas are very interesting, especially these ” I’ll lead a line of questioning onto areas I’m most confident in “, “I won’t pretend I know an answer if I don’t know an answer. I don’t wing it. I’ll admit that I haven’t considered the question ” I guess that focussing on the things you are sure to know and accepting that there may be questions you won’t be able to answer reduces the pressure. I will keep this in mind for next the next time I have to present something ( hoping that next time will never come)

            oups! I’m sorry, I meant the Mediterranean sea, I was using autocorrect and I didn’t pay attention to that, I’d better disable it before I make some real troublesome mistake.

            I’m in no position to judge anyone concerning geography, no matter how many times I look at a map I still picture Spain when someone talks about Greece, and inversely. I’m grateful that no one can see what I think, otherwise, I wouldn’t have been allowed to graduate from primary school.

          7. Truthseeker6157 says:


            It’s funny how people can sometimes better summarise the reasoning behind our own behaviours than we can ourselves.

            “Focussing on the things you know and accepting there will be things you won’t be able to answer I suppose reduces the pressure”

            I think you are right. That’s probably what I’m doing, albeit without registering that’s what I’m doing.

            When I come out of an exam, I only remember the questions I couldn’t do and forget the ones I could. Going in to an exam I fret about the areas I’m not as sure about irrespective of the number of areas I am confident in.

            You might just have helped my exam outlook too! The exam thing isn’t important to me personally now, but it is with regards to how I feel when my kids take exams. Your point is translatable and very insightful. Thank you too!

            Laughing about your geographical prowess being similar to mine. On the upside, what we can say is that every trip we take is like a whole new adventure! Haha. Xx

      3. A Victor says:

        Liza, the “what if” syndrome is a good way to put it, no strong to think, just responding, getting it done.

        1. A Victor says:

          Darn, not stop to think*. Fighting a migraine today, should probably stop trying but this conversation is so interesting.

  7. Dee says:

    Hello HG, First time commentor here and a bit nervous. I have learned alot the past 6-7 months from your site. Agree, at first I was frightened about learning of Narcissism and why it needs to be. But now I can find that reason why. I know we need it for the existence for wars. I read this so many years back but what I also read from this article was we dont want it practiced on our own civilians. Its not a matter of being wrong for acquiring Narcissism but the use of it on empaths for future wars. To keep the skills going. I dont know what other alternatives and solutions there may be?

    1. Another Cat says:

      Hi Dee!

      And welcome. Interesting about wars. I note that the current prime minister/leader of Afghanistan, about to resign today due to Talibans taking over, looks and behaves like a Nonnarc.

      Like someone who has empathy. I thought of this today and yesterday. Some strategical geographical regions seem just too difficult to control for a democratic Nonnarcissist?

  8. Joa says:

    And precisely because it is really great, that despite (…) it gives so much to the world, to people (although it is only a side effect), my boss is my authority.

    So is my narcissistic friend. Younger than me, but with always noticeable distinguishing features.

    They have it.

    “My” narcissist is big/he would like to be big only in his head. This is a disgrace for the world and society.

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