Part Time Narcissist?

26 thoughts on “Part Time Narcissist?

  1. Keighley says:

    Dear HG. Is it typical for narcissist to prefer group activities over one on one time? The narcissist I know even when we were in golden period seemed to dislike romantic trips with just me. A short weekend together – he liked to chose places his friends live so we could meet them and spend time in a larger group of people. A longer (one or two weeks) trip/holidays/vacation – always with his friends or my friends, never alone together.

    I know there are a lot people who are really extrovert, who like socialising with lot of people, who are playful and active and prefer group meetings. Or people who are in relationships for years so eventually they start going on vacations with friends because it seems less boring. But even them, during first months, year of new relationship seem to like/prefer being just with their romantic partner. My narcissist didnt like to go anywhere just with me. It seemed like he cant enjoy these trips and it was a waste of time for him while I longed for being close and intimate. But he seemed he cant enjoy being close to each other. It was the same from the beginning so I dont think it was a sign of devaluation.

    And he is the same with other partners before and after me. No romantic trips together, just trips with other people around. At the same time he claims to be a misanthrope and says he dislike people lol.

    Is it common in people with NPD? I always thought they like being one on one because it binds the partner to them.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      It depends on your position in the fuel matrix and where you were in the dynamic.

      1. You may have remained an IPSS, hence the weekend trips and involving other people. You did not merit, from his perspective, the Bridget Jones style mini break together as his narcissism determined you were not to be the IPPS, thus it did not expend further effort on you and override the rejection of intimacy, if only for a short period of time, in order to make you the IPPS.

      2. If you were the IPPS, it is evident that his narcissism determined that
      a. If you remained in the golden period, you were suitably under control therefore the romantic mini break of just the two of you was not necessary , or
      b. You might have actually been in devaluation and this triangulation was part of that devaluation, but you did not realise.

    2. JB says:

      Keighley,

      Hope you don’t mind me adding ssomething here, I know your comment was addressed to HG. I was fascinated to read this question, as my dad (who I am 99.9% sure is a narcissist) has never wanted to go away on holidays or even a short a trip with just my mum, they always have to go with a group of people. They did it when I was growing up, and this remains the same today. I am pretty sure my mum would love it if he said they would go on a weekend away, just the two of them, but he never wants to. I never thought of it as being (potentially) something to do with narcissism before, but your question has really made me think now xx

    3. jasmin says:

      Reminds me of my cousin. She spended most of her time in group. (Bet she still does – haven’t seen her for looong time). Not only on trips but aslo at home. Her boyfriends didn’t get much one on one time with her..

  2. Brian K Grisham says:

    Yes, part time narcissism is true! If it wasn’t, how can you consider people believe you?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      I recommend you listen again.

    2. Eternity says:

      No , they are full time Narcissist’s with no benefits! Go listen to Stevie Wonders song Part Time Lover !

  3. WiserNow says:

    Very interesting HG. Once again, the cogs in my mind are whirring away trying to figure it all out.

    Your kind provide solutions to our hopes in the golden period – beautiful solutions that look like they have substance. Then, you take them away. The thing you don’t take away is our hopes.

    Thank you for another well-explained and thought-provoking video.

  4. lickemtomorrow says:

    This is an excellent video and timely from my perspective, too.

    It has generated a lot of thoughts, but for now I’ll share just one.

    I am currently reading “Women Who Love Psychopaths”. Included in the umbrella term are sociopaths and narcissists. Part of the reasoning for this is to do with the effect they have on those they interact with or abuse. Though I’m not far into the book, one of the early chapters has a focus on the Nature vs Nurture element and breaks down some of the specifics on the ‘nature’ aspect of these disorders. This is done to highlight the unchanging nature of the psychopath/sociopath/narcissist as a means both to warn potential victims and to ensure they understand they cannot change the predatory nature as their innate desire is to heal and fix.

    I really appreciate you highlighting that narcissism, etc., is not something that can be turned off and on, like a tap. The Jekyll and Hyde persona of the narcissist is really just Mr. Hyde dressed up to look like Dr. Jekyll on occasion, the opposite of the empath who occasionally is robbed of their empathy in a stressful moment. We want to believe the best of people. We can’t live in a world where we assume the worst. I’m still trying to deal with this element of cognitive dissonance which the narcissist has generated.

    1. A Victor says:

      Hi LET, thank you for sharing about the book you are reading, I have heard of that one and will check it out.

      “We can’t live in a world where we assume the worst. I’m still trying to deal with this element of cognitive dissonance which the narcissist has generated.” I relate to this very much, probably many empath do. How to keep our natural worldview and yet know that bad exists and be careful for it. Normals seem to have this down, not having the addiction helps. But, I believe we can learn it also.

      1. lickemtomorrow says:

        AV, I think you are right when you say “not having the addiction helps”. Part of the problem is we don’t realize we have the addiction in the first place. Once we have that realization, I agree, we can learn to manage our worldview so we are not as easily taken in and can have experiences which confirm our worldview of there being good and bad, but – if we take into account the ratio of narcissists in the population – far more good, while keeping an awareness of the bad. Broke my own rule there by stating it in such a black and white fashion, but borrowing from the narcissist on this one 😉

    2. WhoCares says:

      LET & AV,

      ‘”We can’t live in a world where we assume the worst. I’m still trying to deal with this element of cognitive dissonance which the narcissist has generated.”

      So true. I feel as though I have overcome this hurdle personally – and now see it’s the professionals out there who need to listen up.

      I recently had a meeting with the coordinator of the supervised access program (through which my son visits his father) because some of the visits have been going poorly. The coordinator just believes that my ex needs to learn better parenting skills and that it won’t happen (the learning) in the program (insinuating that access would have to move elsewhere, eg. in the community, for things to improve.) He can actually see the abusive behaviour my ex engages in: that he doesn’t back off, that he violates boundaries, that he can’t follow rules…but he believes that he can “learn” these things elsewhere, outside of those two hours. Of course, if that change occurred it would look like an improvement – but that would be down to my ex having the freedom to triangulate with our child, gain fuel from the ‘father & son’ act in public. So it would appear like a positive “learning” but it wouldn’t be. They are not part-time narcissists, ever.
      The coordinator is under the belief that anyone can change if they are made to self-reflect. I asked him if he believes that there are individuals that are unable to self-reflect. He said “That’s a loaded question.” He is, however, informed by the psychology and social work professionals in his academic/work background and, unfortunately, not by the logic to be found here.

      1. Asp Emp says:

        WhoCares, “I asked him if he believes that there are individuals that are unable to self-reflect. He said “That’s a loaded question.” He is, however, informed by the psychology and social work professionals in his academic/work background and, unfortunately, not by the logic to be found here” – it’s good that you asked that question. Maybe, and hopefully, he will do some ‘self-reflection’ upon your question and do some further research – or post that question to the people who he received ‘information’ from? I typed in similar words into the internet search engine and it does come up with some results. But, does the counsellor know that your ex is a narcissist? Or is that a loaded question in itself?

        1. WhoCares says:

          Asp Emp, LET, Fiddleress & AV,

          Thank-you for the supportive words and sorry I didn’t reply sooner. I was readying myself and my son for a trip and then was travel without internet or wifi service for some time.

          Thank-you Asp Emp –

          “But, does the counsellor know that your ex is a narcissist?”

          I did, in the beginning, (this professional has been in our family’s life for over 4 years since 2017) mention the concept of narcissist, explain the schools a bit, and directed him to HG’s work. But he seems to have forgotten and once I found HG’s work I was very careful which professionals I used the label of “narcissist” with. Refraining from using this term, but pointing to the behaviours has resulted in me being able to hold my ground, legally, for most of those 4 years. There really is something to be said for ‘keeping one’s mouth shut.’ I believe this professional is an empath and he has his own clinical theory on what’s going on, but he is steeped in emotional thinking, and I assessed that the last meeting was not the time to bring up narcissism again. Asp Emp, I actually really wanted to send this person “Child Defender” (anonymously) during the last sale – but I chickened out!

          lickemtomorrow,

          “It must be incredibly frustrating for you from that standpoint, and also difficult to try and point out that you are not dealing with someone who thinks like everyone else and will respond accordingly.”

          It is not frustrating when a third party professional doesn’t recognize what my ex is, or even understand narcissism – that’s par for the course, because narcissists are so good at duping people. It is frustrating when those professionals see the negative behaviours (they actually SEE the abuse) and it’s misattributed, rationalized, or blame-shifted to my son (and by extension, to me). But, then again, why should this surprise me?… when I did it too, in context of the relationship – we all did.

          “The professionals don’t always get it right.”

          So true.

          Fiddleress,

          “Sorry to hear this is the way things are going at the moment between your son and your ex. This must be so hard for you.”

          While it’s not a good situation, I always remember that my son is actually more protected, from his narcissist parent, than a lot of kids. He is only in his company for two hours every second week.

          “I trust that the logic we find here will continue to make its way and eventually prevail.”

          Amen to that.

          Thank-you for your supportive thoughts, Fiddleress.

          AV,

          “I hope your professional sees it sooner than later.”

          I am not sure he would see it for exactly what it is, on his own. But he is very astute, is open to the opinions of others, and is very much a truth-seeker – so maybe the time is right to point him in the correct direction again (to HG’s work).

          1. Asp Emp says:

            WC, I have just seen your reply. That is really interesting RE: he is steeped in emotional thinking. What you say in the rest of your comment actually highlights that professionals can be ignorant to the truth where narcissism is concerned. What is even more jaw-dropping is the fact that people like you and I are aware of narcissism and can ‘see’ with more ease in others that have it. It is also interesting that a professional can still ‘operate’ whilst in a heightened ET ‘state’ yet at the same time, not able to quite ‘see’ the truth. I hope that the professional will consider looking into HG’s work and embrace it. It is saddening though that your son is ‘blamed’ and maybe this ‘perception’ can be turned around so to speak.

          2. WhoCares says:

            Asp Emp,

            “WC, I have just seen your reply.”
            No problem, I was late in replying to all four of you (due to my travels) but really appreciated the supportive comments.

            “It is also interesting that a professional can still ‘operate’ whilst in a heightened ET ‘state’ yet at the same time, not able to quite ‘see’ the truth.”

            It is a very pervasive view – in psychological circles and elsewhere – that even if one thinks they “grasp” narcissism, there is still the chance the narcissist has the potential to change.
            *Shrugs*
            I think it is all about hope, Asp Emp, hope is very powerful.

          3. Asp Emp says:

            WC, thank you for your reply. No worries about the delay 🙂 Yes, it will be an interesting conversation (when I get round to it) with my GP friend and talk narcissism within the health / medical fields. At least, we, empaths can change our psychology and we are lucky to have that as an option for ourselves. I hope you make progress with your situation and that your son is ok 🙂

          4. Isabelle says:

            Hello WhoCares, I have just seen your reply (I was not notified by WP). Two hours every other week is indeed a small amount for your child to spend with the father, but sometimes I wonder how long it needs to be in order to be harmful. Not to scare you, WC, it’s just that in hindsight (I had a daughter with a narc), I think that if at all possible (re the law), it is best to cut off all ties with that sort of parent.
            I heard on the news yesterday that in my country an association of fathers is organising a hundreds of kilometres long march (bringing along their kids’ fluffy toys… I immediately thought “pity play”) to demand the right for equal-time custody of their children with the mother, and more sentencing of the mothers who try to stop their children seeing the father. This reminded me of what I heard a judge say when I did some training about troubled teens:
            1. Having the children move homes every week for a week is usually more disturbing than beneficial to them;
            2. The majority of the mothers who keep their children from seeing the father are actually trying to protect their child from an abusive individual.

            That judge was talking from experience and he knew about narcissism, actually said the word. Good to hear that the professional you are dealing with is a truth seeker.
            All the best to you WC.

            (Isabelle, formerly Fiddleress)

          5. WhoCares says:

            Thank-you for your reply Isabelle.

            “Two hours every other week is indeed a small amount for your child to spend with the father, but sometimes I wonder how long it needs to be in order to be harmful. Not to scare you, WC, it’s just that in hindsight (I had a daughter with a narc), I think that if at all possible (re the law), it is best to cut off all ties with that sort of parent.”

            I had such a strong response to this Isabelle, because I agree with you and this is an issue very close to my heart. However, the reality – in practice – of achieving “no contact” between a narcissist and their child(ren) through the mechanism of law is a slippery slope (as I have observed via a friend’s experience). The law (at least where I am) begins with the position that it is in the child’s best interest to have a relationship with both parents. In fact, it is considered the child’s legal right to have access to both parents. For one parent’s rights (and the child’s rights) to be taken away requires establishing that the contact or relationship is detrimental to the well-being of the child. This is probably more achievable in the case of a Lesser narcissist parent, but definitely harder in the case of a Mid-ranger narcissist parent (because of the greater regard for the facade.) The factor of overt abuse, of course, plays a roll and is considered, in cases where there is proof – but how do you prove emotional and psychological abuse? Very hard to achieve that.

            “I heard on the news yesterday that in my country an association of fathers is organising a hundreds of kilometres long march (bringing along their kids’ fluffy toys… I immediately thought “pity play”) to demand the right for equal-time custody of their children with the mother, and more sentencing of the mothers who try to stop their children seeing the father.” 

            When I hear of these types of things I struggle with it because it doesn’t really capture the totality of the issue. Some of those fathers are indeed narcissist dads who are engaging in a pity play (agreed) – but some of them are empath fathers who really should be getting more time with their kids but the narcissist mother, in the picture, has gained full custody and is withholding access. 

            “1. Having the children move homes every week for a week is usually more disturbing than beneficial to them” 

            I agree with you but most judges don’t care; the right of the child, to have a relationship with both parents, is paramount in their eyes.

            “2. The majority of the mothers who keep their children from seeing the father are actually trying to protect their child from an abusive individual.”

             I agree with this too – unless the mother is the narcissist in the relationship, then she is not protecting her child but attempting to assert control – and personally, I believe this happens far more often then most professionals would recognize.

            “That judge was talking from experience and he knew about narcissism, actually said the word.” 
            This sounds like an amazingly educated judge. They are few are far between, if they exist at all (not here anyway, and I have had experiences with many different judges). 

            “Good to hear that the professional you are dealing with is a truth seeker.” Yes, fortunately he is a truth-seeker! Unfortunately – he operates from a fogged perspective and has no real power in this situation, he just provides a service (supervised access) and is supposed to remain neutral.

            Thank-you for the supportive words and the heads up on the moniker change.

      2. WhoCares says:

        individuals *who are unable to self-reflect

        Couldn’t let that one go.

      3. lickemtomorrow says:

        WhoCares, really appreciate you sharing your thoughts on this, and am glad to hear you feel you have overcome this hurdle personally. I agree with you on the professionals, and you’ve given a real life example of how their lack of understanding/insight can impact the situation with a narcissist. It must be incredibly frustrating for you from that standpoint, and also difficult to try and point out that you are not dealing with someone who thinks like everyone else and will respond accordingly. What works for us/normals will not work with a narcissist. This mistaken belief just leads to more misery. In your son’s case I hope this doesn’t happen, and I can see how the narcissist could use it to gain fuel and shore up his image in the circumstances.

        I’m glad you challenged the coordinator around the issue of a person’s ability to self-reflect. It might get him thinking, even if he’s informed by others in his field. As you say, they are as duped as we are – many of them also being empaths – who believe such things are possible, and who are also clueless about the addiction, etc. Once upon a time we would have hard to convince as well. It makes your situation very difficult and I hope it can be resolved to your satisfaction. You seem to be spot on in your assessment and I really hope you can continue to influence the decision making process with regard to your son. The professionals don’t always get it right.

      4. Fiddleress says:

        Hello WhoCares,
        Sorry to hear this is the way things are going at the moment between your son and your ex. This must be so hard for you.
        Yet I am not surprised; psychologists and social work professionals are the same the world over.
        I trust that the logic we find here will continue to make its way and eventually prevail.
        Sending plenty of support your way, WC.

      5. A Victor says:

        WC, I agree, the world will be better off when the so-called professionals wake up. Our children will for sure. I hope your professional sees it sooner than later.

    3. Duchessbea says:

      LET,
      I very much agree with your comment.
      I recently read a comment in a post left in 2017 on this blog. It was written by a self diagnosed Psychopath. He said and I quote ‘we care for the people that we are with, but we don’t care about them’. I think that sums it up perfectly. At the end of the day it is all about the Self. No one is more important than the Self. The Jekyll and Hyde persona, I think is the perfect way to describe it.
      Personally, my Empathic side is very strong. If I met HG, he would come across I am sure as an incredibly charming man with everyone in the group hanging off his every word. My only problem would be that I would be on the edge of the group trying my best to leave quietly, because standing so close to him my internal alarm bells would be going wild on the loudest shriek, and no matter how much I would want to talk to him, physically I would not be able to. I would very much sense something very off from him and have to get away. No doubt he would have summed me up very quick too.
      There is no such thing as a part time narc. Everything is masked until the devaluation begins.
      I know with my Ex, I saw the charming man, the vulnerable side, the Alpha side, all of which I found incredibly attractive. Then I saw the mask slip and I saw the true colours start to emerge. I had begun with Dr. Jekyll, and ended up with Mr Hide, with a few elements of Mr. Bean, thrown in for good measure.
      Best,
      DB

      1. lickemtomorrow says:

        DB, it’s very concerning that we don’t see them coming and we’re all here as victims in that sense. Some of us were affected as children, but more often than not that plays into our later relationships as well. We are vulnerable, either as empaths or childhood empathic victims, and for some of us those alarm bells are not automatically set. It’s good to know yours are in good working order, and I’d be hesitant to say I would not be drawn to HG, just in the sense I know my own nature and how vulnerable I am or can be. We are here to become weaponized and our awareness has definitely been raised. Having come from the experience of being so totally devastated by the narcissist/psychopath hopefully we will all be forearmed for our next experience.

        1. Duchessbea says:

          LET,
          Very well said. Thanks to HG and his advice we all will have a different approach.
          Best,
          DB

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