I didn’t ask for this you know. I know you did not either but for once let’s not make this about you and let’s talk about me, yes? I never asked to be created so that each and every day I must gather the fuel that is necessary for my existence. Yes, I must eat, I must drink water and I must breathe the air, just as you do, but for me I have another staple requirement of daily living. I must have fuel. Did you choose to always needs food and water? No, you did not. Neither did I. I did not choose to require this fuel either but without it I will cease to exist. What I have created in order to survive in this world will come toppling down and that will be the end of me. How far would you go to eat? At first it is simple enough is it not? You go to the grocery store or you order online from the supermarket and acquire the ingredients to make a meal or receive a pre-cooked one. You chop, you peel, you mash and you stir and you make that meal. A hundred thousand different recipes to choose from. Instead you may remove the packaging, pierce the cling film and pop it in the over or the microwave. Either way you have food, ready to eat and to sustain you. But what if you had no money to acquire this food, how would you quell the rumblings in your stomach? Perhaps you might ask to be given food from neighbours, from food banks or left overs at supermarkets. It is demeaning but you need to eat don’t you, so what does a little pride matter so long as your stomach is filled? However, what if that charity ends? What if the benevolence of friends and neighbours dries up? What would you do then? What if there are no friends and no neighbours? Would you look to survive on berries you find by the roadside, drink the water from a stream? Would that sustain you for long or would you tire of that? Would you scavenge through the bins outside a supermarket for food that has been thrown out but is perfectly edible? Is that stealing? Perhaps not. Would you cope with the stares of pity and disdain from those who saw you surfing a dumpster?
Would you steal from the shops in order to quell the hunger pangs? Snatch a loaf from a bakery, sneak into a house and steal that cooling pie or rifle through the cupboards in order to find something to eat. What if there is no edible food in the dumpster, would you remove the mould and eat what you find, risking illness? What if the supermarkets ran out of food and there was nowhere to steal it from? Would you scavenge from the orchards until that fruit ran out? Would you catch fish or hunt a lamb or grab a chicken in order to cook and eat it over an open fire? What if the usual sources of meat began to vanish, having fallen prey to starving wild animals following the collapse of civilisation, what then? Would you try new sources? Would you, driven by hunger hunt down and eat a sparrow or a robin? How about an owl? Seagull? Would you slaughter a fox in order to eat its meat? Where would you stop? Would you eat another human being in order to survive? When needs must where would you draw the line? How far would you go to feed yourself and your loved ones? Begging, growing you own, stealing, savagery, cannibalism? Do you have a limit or when the chips are down and your stomach is knotted with the agony of starvation would there be no limit? How far would you go? Would you fight another person for a packet of rice? Beat someone up in order to steal their hoard of windfalls? Would you consider their loss of their food source and their injuries an acceptable consequence of your own necessary survival? Would this become collateral damage in the pursuit of survival? Abhorrent as it may sound, I should imagine, when the need really arises, that you would go beyond the unpalatable in order to survive.
Now replace food with the need for fuel and you will understand that I have no choice other than to gather this fuel from different sources and in different ways throughout the course of each day. The consequences which arise may seem regrettable to you but they are purely the result of this need for me to gain fuel. I did not ask to have to do this, but the way I have been created makes it so. In the same way that you would fight to ensure your own survival, rather than curling up and dying in a hole, so must I. Does that make me what would be regarded as a bad person for just doing what I need to in order to exist? I suggest that it does not. I know that what I do has consequences for others. I am not blind nor am I a fool. I understand fully the devastation that I cause as I tear through someone else’s life like a whirlwind, sucking everything in, hurling it about and then discarding it broken and shattered. I have heard the complaints, the stories, the recollections and the accounts. I have heard the cries of dismay, the wails of misery, the screams of terror and the slow sobs of pain. I know what is caused by my actions but what choice do I have? I do not set out to achieve these things but they must always arise as a consequence of what I must do.
I feel no guilt nor remorse. I am devoid of those emotions. Another consequence of the way I have been created. I feel no shame in these actions, no pity for those who suffer from my behaviours and no sense of empathy for those who are remorselessly cut down by my machinations. I am not burdened by such emotions so I do not toss and turn at night, I do not have my sleep peppered by nightmares of torment, I do not sit in anguish and seek absolution for everything I have done and everything that I am to do. Those concepts are not applicable to me. What I do is invite you to understand me. I want you to understand what I am, what I must do and what arises from this and if you were in my shoes then you would do the same. This does not make me a bad person does it? I am a good man who is having to do a bad job. Yes?
I in fact thought about this question many times. Are narcissists good or bad? Well, I came to the conclusion: none of it. Because they are actually “nobody”. Empty. It´s a pure survival and self defense mechanism created by mother nature, in order to survive in a lack of control and harsh environment. With this said: Individuals with NPD are neither good nor bad, but people we should stay away from!
Leela, I just found this comment, very good thinking, thank you for posting it! It is this that makes it easier to also be neutral about them, most of the time anyway, haha!
At least Vaknin knows what he’s talking about. Crapper is a mid range narcissist who thinks he’s a Super Heyoka Ninja Fire Empath – absolute clown and a classic example of the Mid Range Narcissist who thinks it’s all about getting kick ass.
I’m not offended, because I know the law very well, and your “blog” has no meaning other than that of misinformation and unprofessional opinions, but I’d like to warn you, in this crazy new world, people are shot for less than a blog comment. Take care.
Yet you hang around on the blog of misinformation and unprofessional opinions. You know sweet fuck all about the law. Your last two lawsuits against at an education establishment and Harvey Weinstein were dismissed without trial as they had no standing. I know this because I have read the court material. You’re an idiot.
“[…]each and every day I must gather the fuel that is necessary for my existence.”
Wow. Really? This stuff boggles my mind. Necessary for your existence, holy shit.
I think of love and connection and all that as the equivalent of fuel for “normal” people. But I don’t think any of us have that kind of driving, constant need for love. Well, I don’t anyway.
I really don’t take it personally anymore if one of your kind sees me as prey. If I see an alligator on the edge of a pond, i might look at it and think, what a cool-looking animal, wow look at those teeth, better stay away. And it’s looking at me and thinking food food foodfoodfoodfood…. I don’t think it’s evil just for wanting to stay alive, I don’t particularly want it to starve to death, I just don’t want to be its next meal.
When i met my ex, I hadn’t been in a relationship for over 8 years. He was about 3 weeks out of a relationship. He can’t go three weeks without somebody to feed his ego.
You people need us more than we need you, I still can’t wrap my head around that.
They look just like us. Or like fluffy bunnies. Everyone loves my ex (when they first meet him, at least). They always fall for that Nice Guy act. I STILL fall for it, and I know better! I think even he falls for it. I’m sure he doesn’t believe he ever hurts people. He’s no Ultra.
My ex also! That’s one reason I thought there was no way he could be a narcissist when I first got to narcsite, he is loved by all. Until he no longer needs them. Or unless he never needed them. He’s no Ultra either.
Indeed, empaths will also go to great lengths to survive. They will move through their personal list of morals painstakingly justifying the removal of the barriers that held them in place until they arrive at a depth they never thought possible. There will have been great effort at each juncture not to fall further, but fall they will if it is felt required. If survival is secured, and once stabilized, there will be reflection on that journey and how it affected not only themselves but others. There will be wonder if the result was worth what was willed to achieve survival depending on how far they view themselves as having fallen. There will only be relief – not power.
There is:
Assessment
Effort
The taking of only the minimal required to withstand the journey.
Reflection
Repair where possible when we have affected others negatively. Not only for ourselves but for the greater good, which may well be considered the legacy of the empath.
We now understand what *you are. We now understand what you do.
We are not however entirely convinced that you MUST do it because there is no evidence of effort or desire to change how those needs might be met that benefits anyone outside of yourself.
In that way, MUST merely reads as selfish, weak, and an excuse. You demand excellence and effort from everyone around you. We expect the same.
We have been asked: Victim or Volunteer?
We would ask: Unwilling or Unable?
*you
meaning narcissists in general as that is how I read the article, and not specific to HG.
BTW, Mr Blackbird has started early, I heard him (and saw him) singing from his ‘perch’ (a relocated telephone pole – laughing – it sounds rude 😉 )….it was 8:42pm. Ah, I am instantly taken back to when my grandfather took us young kids out in the car for drive-arounds in the countryside…….
This article is very well written as it gives perspective about people and what they may be ‘pushed’ to do in order to survive. Every human has needs. Some know what their ‘needs’ are. Others may not know what their needs are so they instinctively ‘search’ for it.
This is one of HG’s pieces of work that I read and understood clearly at the start of journey of understanding using HG’s work.
I’d consider it as a ‘key’ article for new students to read while ‘attending’ Tudor University.
I was telling you this the other day, that I don’t see you as a bad person, you’re doing what you have to do. I think the balance comes for you, in what you do here. The consultations, the answers you give us desperately lost empaths, you saved me, you’ve saved others and you’ll be saving more in the future….that’s not a bad man. No, sorry, you’re not without your good deeds, regardless that you do it for your own reasons. The fact is, you do it and do it well, and that says everything about you. You’re dedicated to doing it too, you work so hard at clarifying, answering, helping….it’s truly awe inspiring ❤. Thank you for your dedication, your hard work, your knowledge and you, being you. I wouldn’t be here without you. 😘❤
Rebecca, HG does do a lot that brings enormous benefit to a lot of people, you and me included. Go to the evidence, as he teaches us, as to the bad man part. But, yes, alongside that, he does do a lot for himself which effects a lot of good for a lot of people, that is true.
I know what you mean, but everyone has a dark side to themselves, it’s just some people hide it more or control it more,doesn’t make them bad people….we all “sin”, none of us are perfect and I wouldn’t want to be perfect. Perfect would be pretty boring and if we were all alike, we’d all be pretty boring to each other, at least I believe that. Maybe I’m wrong. I’m just glad we’re all different and still can relate, understand, communicate and some can become friends and some can even love.
Hi Rebecca, very true, we all do bad things. I understood your initial comment, it is a sentiment that many have expressed here. It is only natural to want this for one who has helped us so much. I know you speak with HG. I encourage you to ask him about this directly, he can explain it best.
One difference is that he enjoys the bad that he does, he has told us this, bad that hurts other people. We are not like that, as an empath, I never want to hurt another person, there are moments when I might think about it for a second but to actually do it, no. There are times I inadvertantly hurt anther but there is always an apology and an effort to not repeat it. With a narcissist, they need it, to maintain control, to gather fuel and they do hurtful things to others without remorse or true apology. Yes, even HG.
He has taught us to go to the evidence. For me therefore, until he says he’s changed, until there is new evidence, I will continue to believe what he’s been telling us all along, he is a bad man who does good things, and that though I have benefited beyond any expectation from his good things, it doesn’t change the evidence of the bad things. To believe they can change is to risk putting ourselves in harms way again.
I agree, the world would be boring if we’re were all the same. I am glad for variation, I’m glad for some narcissists and the things they do that are good, like LET (I think) said recently, the ones who made me and the ones who helped make my children. Certainly I’m happy for HG, to know him, to learn from him, he is dear to me for what he’s done for me. But one of the things he’s done is explain in no uncertain terms that he’s not good, the benefit we receive is nothing to him beyond building his legacy, he only cares about me for the prime aims I offer, that any relationship I have with one of his kind will be the same, it will end in hurt and frustration and that to think anything different is my addiction and will allow my healing.
I urge you to ask him. We can still love and appreciate him but we can do it with our eyes wide open.
AV,
I sometimes think I’m a bad person because there were times I wanted to hurt my mother for the things she did to me. I didn’t because she didn’t hit me again after I flipped out on her for slapping me across the face. I wonder sometimes if she had hit me again, how would I have reacted? I don’t know to be honest. I believe I’m capable of harming someone in self defense or defense of another person or animal. I have hit people in defense of myself and others. I didn’t seriously maim them, but I also was just a kid at the time too. Now I think it would depend on the severity of the attack upon me or another. If that’s the case, then yeah, I’ll attack with much force and anger. I think I have too much anger in me just to stand there and get hit and not hit back. I’m a fighter first, I had to be to survive my mother. I have a darkness in me that stands beside my reasoning and my tender side. How one treats me is relative to which wolf they deal with, the dark wolf that’s aggression, malice, jealousy and anger, or the white wolf that is caring, love, happiness, sympathy and compassion….does that make me bad?
Rebecca, reading your words here, I’d answer your question “does that make me bad?” with a resounding ‘No’. So, remove that ‘opinion’ you have “applied” to yourself, you are not a bad person at all. Just one with experiences that I can totally appreciate and understand.
Great comment AV. It is not a slight against HG or all that he does that we benefit from, to say that making allowances for one can put you on a slippery slope looking for goodness in others who will abuse you and who have no such ability or desire to operate carefully with regard to any legacy. Using logic allows us to be both grateful and cautious.
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I in fact thought about this question many times. Are narcissists good or bad? Well, I came to the conclusion: none of it. Because they are actually “nobody”. Empty. It´s a pure survival and self defense mechanism created by mother nature, in order to survive in a lack of control and harsh environment. With this said: Individuals with NPD are neither good nor bad, but people we should stay away from!
Leela, I just found this comment, very good thinking, thank you for posting it! It is this that makes it easier to also be neutral about them, most of the time anyway, haha!
To me, they are simply INSANE! (Sorry, H.G. 😘❤)
I actually agree Leela.
I’m not a narcissist. But the Bible says there is none righteous, no not one. Except for Jesus.
Plenty wrong with those sentences.
Yep. A comma is missing, there’s a sentence fragment, and I see at least one unsupported assertion.
You are free to think whatever you want. And be wrong as well.
I do whatever ever I want and I know precisely what you are, the evidence supports that conclusion.
Pammy, have you thought of working your Womanly Wiles on Sam Vaknin or Pete Sapper?
At least Vaknin knows what he’s talking about. Crapper is a mid range narcissist who thinks he’s a Super Heyoka Ninja Fire Empath – absolute clown and a classic example of the Mid Range Narcissist who thinks it’s all about getting kick ass.
I’m not offended, because I know the law very well, and your “blog” has no meaning other than that of misinformation and unprofessional opinions, but I’d like to warn you, in this crazy new world, people are shot for less than a blog comment. Take care.
Yet you hang around on the blog of misinformation and unprofessional opinions. You know sweet fuck all about the law. Your last two lawsuits against at an education establishment and Harvey Weinstein were dismissed without trial as they had no standing. I know this because I have read the court material. You’re an idiot.
HG, wow.
Leave HG’s blog alone. Why don’t you sort yours out?!
Don’t hate me because I love cheap entertainment and enjoy the show you put on.
The legal corruption only goes so far, Alan. But repeated stupidity lasts forever. You keep playing the narc part with brilliance, I must say.
“Super Heyoka Ninja Fire Empath”
Pahahaha!
“I’m not a narcissist. But the Bible says there is none righteous, no not one. Except for Jesus.“
Jaysus!
…and Mary, and Joseph, and the Wee Donkey.
Jesus is Lord, tony.
**newsflash** Jesus is dead, Pammy
“[…]each and every day I must gather the fuel that is necessary for my existence.”
Wow. Really? This stuff boggles my mind. Necessary for your existence, holy shit.
I think of love and connection and all that as the equivalent of fuel for “normal” people. But I don’t think any of us have that kind of driving, constant need for love. Well, I don’t anyway.
I really don’t take it personally anymore if one of your kind sees me as prey. If I see an alligator on the edge of a pond, i might look at it and think, what a cool-looking animal, wow look at those teeth, better stay away. And it’s looking at me and thinking food food foodfoodfoodfood…. I don’t think it’s evil just for wanting to stay alive, I don’t particularly want it to starve to death, I just don’t want to be its next meal.
When i met my ex, I hadn’t been in a relationship for over 8 years. He was about 3 weeks out of a relationship. He can’t go three weeks without somebody to feed his ego.
You people need us more than we need you, I still can’t wrap my head around that.
ST, if only narcissists we’re as easy to spot as alligators.
They look just like us. Or like fluffy bunnies. Everyone loves my ex (when they first meet him, at least). They always fall for that Nice Guy act. I STILL fall for it, and I know better! I think even he falls for it. I’m sure he doesn’t believe he ever hurts people. He’s no Ultra.
My ex also! That’s one reason I thought there was no way he could be a narcissist when I first got to narcsite, he is loved by all. Until he no longer needs them. Or unless he never needed them. He’s no Ultra either.
Savoy Truffle, I enjoyed reading your comment. It amused me about the ‘food’.
Indeed, empaths will also go to great lengths to survive. They will move through their personal list of morals painstakingly justifying the removal of the barriers that held them in place until they arrive at a depth they never thought possible. There will have been great effort at each juncture not to fall further, but fall they will if it is felt required. If survival is secured, and once stabilized, there will be reflection on that journey and how it affected not only themselves but others. There will be wonder if the result was worth what was willed to achieve survival depending on how far they view themselves as having fallen. There will only be relief – not power.
There is:
Assessment
Effort
The taking of only the minimal required to withstand the journey.
Reflection
Repair where possible when we have affected others negatively. Not only for ourselves but for the greater good, which may well be considered the legacy of the empath.
We now understand what *you are. We now understand what you do.
We are not however entirely convinced that you MUST do it because there is no evidence of effort or desire to change how those needs might be met that benefits anyone outside of yourself.
In that way, MUST merely reads as selfish, weak, and an excuse. You demand excellence and effort from everyone around you. We expect the same.
We have been asked: Victim or Volunteer?
We would ask: Unwilling or Unable?
*you
meaning narcissists in general as that is how I read the article, and not specific to HG.
BTW, Mr Blackbird has started early, I heard him (and saw him) singing from his ‘perch’ (a relocated telephone pole – laughing – it sounds rude 😉 )….it was 8:42pm. Ah, I am instantly taken back to when my grandfather took us young kids out in the car for drive-arounds in the countryside…….
This article is very well written as it gives perspective about people and what they may be ‘pushed’ to do in order to survive. Every human has needs. Some know what their ‘needs’ are. Others may not know what their needs are so they instinctively ‘search’ for it.
This is one of HG’s pieces of work that I read and understood clearly at the start of journey of understanding using HG’s work.
I’d consider it as a ‘key’ article for new students to read while ‘attending’ Tudor University.
HG,
I was telling you this the other day, that I don’t see you as a bad person, you’re doing what you have to do. I think the balance comes for you, in what you do here. The consultations, the answers you give us desperately lost empaths, you saved me, you’ve saved others and you’ll be saving more in the future….that’s not a bad man. No, sorry, you’re not without your good deeds, regardless that you do it for your own reasons. The fact is, you do it and do it well, and that says everything about you. You’re dedicated to doing it too, you work so hard at clarifying, answering, helping….it’s truly awe inspiring ❤. Thank you for your dedication, your hard work, your knowledge and you, being you. I wouldn’t be here without you. 😘❤
Rebecca, HG does do a lot that brings enormous benefit to a lot of people, you and me included. Go to the evidence, as he teaches us, as to the bad man part. But, yes, alongside that, he does do a lot for himself which effects a lot of good for a lot of people, that is true.
AV,
I know what you mean, but everyone has a dark side to themselves, it’s just some people hide it more or control it more,doesn’t make them bad people….we all “sin”, none of us are perfect and I wouldn’t want to be perfect. Perfect would be pretty boring and if we were all alike, we’d all be pretty boring to each other, at least I believe that. Maybe I’m wrong. I’m just glad we’re all different and still can relate, understand, communicate and some can become friends and some can even love.
Hi Rebecca, very true, we all do bad things. I understood your initial comment, it is a sentiment that many have expressed here. It is only natural to want this for one who has helped us so much. I know you speak with HG. I encourage you to ask him about this directly, he can explain it best.
One difference is that he enjoys the bad that he does, he has told us this, bad that hurts other people. We are not like that, as an empath, I never want to hurt another person, there are moments when I might think about it for a second but to actually do it, no. There are times I inadvertantly hurt anther but there is always an apology and an effort to not repeat it. With a narcissist, they need it, to maintain control, to gather fuel and they do hurtful things to others without remorse or true apology. Yes, even HG.
He has taught us to go to the evidence. For me therefore, until he says he’s changed, until there is new evidence, I will continue to believe what he’s been telling us all along, he is a bad man who does good things, and that though I have benefited beyond any expectation from his good things, it doesn’t change the evidence of the bad things. To believe they can change is to risk putting ourselves in harms way again.
I agree, the world would be boring if we’re were all the same. I am glad for variation, I’m glad for some narcissists and the things they do that are good, like LET (I think) said recently, the ones who made me and the ones who helped make my children. Certainly I’m happy for HG, to know him, to learn from him, he is dear to me for what he’s done for me. But one of the things he’s done is explain in no uncertain terms that he’s not good, the benefit we receive is nothing to him beyond building his legacy, he only cares about me for the prime aims I offer, that any relationship I have with one of his kind will be the same, it will end in hurt and frustration and that to think anything different is my addiction and will allow my healing.
I urge you to ask him. We can still love and appreciate him but we can do it with our eyes wide open.
AV,
I sometimes think I’m a bad person because there were times I wanted to hurt my mother for the things she did to me. I didn’t because she didn’t hit me again after I flipped out on her for slapping me across the face. I wonder sometimes if she had hit me again, how would I have reacted? I don’t know to be honest. I believe I’m capable of harming someone in self defense or defense of another person or animal. I have hit people in defense of myself and others. I didn’t seriously maim them, but I also was just a kid at the time too. Now I think it would depend on the severity of the attack upon me or another. If that’s the case, then yeah, I’ll attack with much force and anger. I think I have too much anger in me just to stand there and get hit and not hit back. I’m a fighter first, I had to be to survive my mother. I have a darkness in me that stands beside my reasoning and my tender side. How one treats me is relative to which wolf they deal with, the dark wolf that’s aggression, malice, jealousy and anger, or the white wolf that is caring, love, happiness, sympathy and compassion….does that make me bad?
Rebecca,
“the white wolf that is caring, love, happiness, sympathy and compassion” – this is the part that makes the difference. You have this. 💕
Rebecca, reading your words here, I’d answer your question “does that make me bad?” with a resounding ‘No’. So, remove that ‘opinion’ you have “applied” to yourself, you are not a bad person at all. Just one with experiences that I can totally appreciate and understand.
Great comment AV. It is not a slight against HG or all that he does that we benefit from, to say that making allowances for one can put you on a slippery slope looking for goodness in others who will abuse you and who have no such ability or desire to operate carefully with regard to any legacy. Using logic allows us to be both grateful and cautious.
Thank you NA.
Rebecca, this is a really positive, constructive, justified and unselfish comment. It is very well worded and clearly summarised. Lovely to read 🙂
Thank you Asp Emp 😊❤
Asp Emp, AV and NA,
Thanks for the reassurances and the logic I needed from you all. 🙃❤
You’re welcome Rebecca.