The Empathic Supernova


What is the Empathic Supernova?

In order to detail this phenomenon, it is first necessary to consider when it might appear and what is behind its appearance.

The repeated application of our manipulations is deployed for the purposes of maintaining control over you. This control reinforces our notion of superiority,  omnipotence and impregnability and enables us to draw fuel from our appliances and most of all you as our primary source.

I have made mention of the Empathic Group, the group which lies to the left of the empathic-narcissistic spectrum and within this group there are four schools of the empathic individual; the , the Standard Empath, the Co-Dependent, the Super Empath and the Contagion Empath.

The sustained application of the many and varied manipulations produces results for us. It also takes its toll on our victims. The Co-Dependent will cling on, desperate for the self-definition which manifests as a consequence of their ensnarement with us. They will soak up the abuse, the confusion and the control until they reach a point of breakdown. The cumulative effect of the silent treatments, the gas lighting, the physical abuse, the psychological trauma, financial mistreatment and sexual degradation eventually causes the limpet-like Co-Dependent to collapse into numbness, malfunction and potential hospitalisation. They gave and gave until suddenly they fell off the cliff and their fuel provision remained impressive on Monday and by Tuesday it had stopped. No longer capable of pumping out fuel, attending to our requirements and showering us with appropriate traits and residual benefits, this failure to function invariably brings about the discard of this individual. The disengaged from Co-Dependent, although distraught at the loss of the narcissist which they crave, is in no position to try to bring about the resumption of the relationship and thus, whilst we focus on their replacement primary source, they are allowed a period by which they can recover and once the lights switch back on again and the fuel starts to pump, the devaluation of their replacement has begun, so we come looking and hoovering for the Co-Dependent. Unable to resist, because of the nature of the hoovering and their own vulnerability, they are hoovered back in and the narcissistic cycle continues.

Whilst third parties may try to assist the Co-Dependent to see and understand what has happened to them, their own substantial need to connect with a narcissist means it is very hard to make them take notice and stay away from us. Unless physically removed and isolated, the Co-Dependent will drift back to us. If not the original narcissist, a replacement narcissist will invariably be found.

The empathic-narcissistic spectrum is a sliding scale that represents both empathic and narcissistic traits. On the far left the empathic traits are more numerous and stronger whilst the narcissistic traits are fewer and weaker. Move to the right and the empathic traits begin to lessen in number, their effects less evident and the narcissistic traits begin to increase and become more prevalent. Eventually, as one reaches the Narcissistic Group, on the right of this spectrum, the empathic traits have disappeared and all that remain are narcissistic traits which become more numerous and stronger the further right one goes within this Narcissistic Group.

Accordingly, with the Co-Dependent, he or she will have many empathic traits and they are strong in nature. Their devotion to love, their honesty, decency, excellent listening skills, positivity etc are most evident and contribute to create a highly empathic individual. The narcissistic traits are less extensive and the few that exist are generally weaker. Accordingly, this prevalence of empathic traits attracts and is attracted to the prevalence of extensive and strong narcissistic traits. They lock together, complementing one another and consequently the Co-Dependent is inexorably drawn to those within the Narcissistic Group, with next to nothing in terms of their own narcissistic traits to act as some kind of repellant.

The Standard Empath may also find themselves shutting down, but more usually they are prevented from reaching a position of complete numbing though the intervention of a third party. Sure enough the toll exacted on the Standard Empath is considerable and has damaging consequences, but, in general, they manage to avoid more often the fate of the Co-Dependent. Instead, rather than giving and giving until shut down occurs (as is the case with the Co-Dependent) the Standard Empath’s performance deteriorates in terms of fuel output in a more gradual fashion which means that when it dips below a threshold of acceptability for our kind, the Standard Empath is also disengaged from. Not so damaged as to be unable to function, the Standard Empath will endeavour to re-connect with our kind, having sufficient energy and ability to do so, but they will be shunned as part of this disengagement until it is time to hoover them. Unaware of what they have been ensnared by and with capabilities improved after a period of respite arising from the disengagement the Standard Empath is sucked back in by the narcissist and thus the narcissistic cycle continues.

The Standard Empath however may also realise that something is wrong, or assisted by third parties and more amenable to listening, takes notice of what these third parties are telling him or her. They have a moment of ‘awakening’ and with that realise that they must remain away from our grip, however hurtful and hard it may be and thus they eventually escape, putting distance between them and our kind.

The Standard Empath has numerous empathic traits and they are of strength but they are generally less in scale compared to the Co-Dependent. The Standard Empath will have numerous narcissistic traits but not especially strong in nature, but they will have more narcissistic traits than the Co-Dependent. Their status as a Standard Empath (along with the fact that there are more Standard Empaths than Co-Dependents) means that Standard Empaths become the bread and butter target for our kind. They too are attracted to us, not with the almost hopeless vulnerability of the Co-Dependent, but they remain not only attracted to our kind but a target.

Finally, there is the Super Empath. The Super Empath is an excellent provider of fuel also and comes with a confidence and a fieriness which proves most tempting to our kind. The Super Empath sees his or her role as helping, fixing, healing and brining goodness to those around them. They have considerable energy, they are capable and their capacity for sustaining our abuses also makes them a considerably attractive prospect. The Co-Dependent can sustain considerable abuse until suddenly, like a light being extinguished, that is it. The Standard Empath also can sustain our manipulations but their slide is slower and more gradual. The Super Empath, blessed with a vast capacity for empathy and goodness is also somebody who can sustain a lengthy campaign of abuse. There is no slide downwards with this individual like the Standard Empath. There is no sudden collapse like the Co-Dependent. Instead the Super Empath goes in to Supernova mode.

The trait make-up of the Super Empath is different from their cousins in the Empathic Group. Whereas the Co-Dependent has strong and many empathic traits with few and low narcissistic traits and the Standard Empath has a greater number of narcissistic traits  and fairly low narcissistic traits but more and quite strong empathic traits, the Super Empath has a different constitution.

The Super Empath has very strong and numerous empathic traits. He or she also has a significant number of narcissistic traits (more than the Co-Dependent and the Standard Empath but not as many as the Narcissistic Group) and they are stronger in nature than those experienced by the Co-Dependent and the Standard Empath.

This arrangement is not problematic. Liken the Super Empath’s narcissistic make-up to the light from a candle and their empathic make-up the light from a spotlight. The intensity of the spotlight is so bright that the candle light is barely noticed. Accordingly, the narcissistic element to the Super Empath does not appear. The Super Empath behaves in an empathic way and thus is a target for our kind.

There comes a time however when the sustained abuse and the awareness of the Super Empath reaches a critical point. Rather than switch off or slide into decline, the Super Empath will decide that enough is enough. In some instances, this means that the Super Empath will escape and follow a similar route to that of the Empath and distance themselves from the narcissist.

On other occasions they enter into Supernova mode. When this happens, the Super Empath will dim their empathic traits. This can only be dimming. The empathic traits cannot be shut off as they are wired into the empath’s dna. Moreover, this dimming can only continue for a period of time and is not permanent. The naturally strong empathic nature of the Super Empath means that it will blaze bright again.

However, when this dimming takes places, the gap between empathy and narcissism in the Super Empath lessens so that the narcissistic traits are more prevalent. They do not dominate nor do they take over, but they are allowed to ‘shine’. However, whereas in our kind the application of our narcissistic traits is unfettered since we have no empathic traits and thus these traits are directed in a malevolent, harmful and destructive manner, the Super Empath uses these unleashed narcissistic traits for ‘good’.

This means that they will fight back against our kind and remain in the relationship with us. They will shut off the fuel provision, they will engage in manipulation of us, having learned how to effect it form their accompanying journey with out kind. The Super Empath will wound and wound, striking blow upon blow against the narcissist.  It is worth pointing out that the Super Empath does not necessarily know that they are with a narcissist (they may only realise this later) but rather they know that something is very wrong in the relationship and it must no longer continue.

Thus when some people ask the question

“Can you become a narcissist from being with a narcissist?”


“Can I pick up narcissistic traits from my experience of being entangled with a narcissist?”

The answer remains no.

But, if you find that you are exhibiting such traits and you are deploying them against the narcissist, what has happened is that you are allowing your inherent narcissistic traits to have greater prominence. You keep them under control and you are not allowing them to harm or hurt innocent parties, but rather you are applying them against the narcissist in order to strike back. You always had these traits, you have not gained them by being with us, but what you have learned is how to manipulate from being with us and now you are turning those manipulations against us.

The effect against us is varied.

The Lesser Narcissist will discard immediately with a display of ignited fury as he seeks to escape the turning of the tables. He will need to get away from this empowered Super Empath and find a new primary source straight away. He wants to shrink from this blazing  supernova of power which is causing him considerable difficulty through the cessation of fuel and the wounding from repeated criticism.

The Mid-Range Narcissist will find himself in a tormented loop as he tries to assert control. He will not comprehend truly what is happening. He will not want to lose the Super Empath owing to the fuel provision, but he is finding that his ability to manipulate and the reasonable degree of calculation that he has, is being sorely tested. He will try to assert his control through passive aggressive means, even pleading with the Super Empath to stop and ‘why can’t you be good to me again’? He will roll out the pity plays and sympathy cards in order to try to achieve superiority again. However,  either the Super Empath decides to escape and leaves the Mid-Ranger in a confused and bewildered state or the Mid-Ranger slinks away and discards,unable to sustain the fight and needing a new and far more compliant primary source.

The Greater Narcissist will rail against this insurrection and fight back. He will draw on fuel from alternative sources (usually the IPSS or IPSSs he has in the wings along with fuel form those NISS who are his inner and outer circle friends). He will relish the challenge shown by the Super Empath and a real battle of wills ensues as each combatant deploys manipulation after manipulation against one another. This hammer and tongs clash of the  titans sees the Super Empath applying what they have learned, similar to the apprentice turning on his or her master, as the old hand seeks to slap down the irreverent upstart. The Super Empath may withdraw and escape, satisfied that they have made their mark and scarred the Greater. The Greater may ultimately recognise that only a stalemate (for now) can ensue and breaks off, discarding the Super Empath and focusses on the acquisition of a new primary source (or more likely the promotion of an already ensnared IPSS). The Greater however will not leave matters there. A note will be made to rejoin battle in due course and bring the Super Empath to heel.

Thus the Empathic Supernova is when the Super Empath determines that enough is enough and he or she reduces their empathic traits, allowing the narcissistic traits to come to the fore and in so doing he or she trains their sights on making life difficult, miserable and awkward for the narcissist. This is why our kind proceed with caution with the Super Empath. Their capacity for sucking up the abusive devaluation and their impressive fuel provision is tempting indeed, but reaching the critical point and causing the ignition of the Empathic Supernova can have dire consequences for our kind.

Not for me of course. I relish the challenge and the assertion of hegemonic dominance. Obviously.


Listen to the Empathic Supernova

106 thoughts on “The Empathic Supernova

  1. Dani says:

    Mr. Tudor,

    1. Can a supernova only occur happen with any super empath and any narcissist they are acquainted with?
    2. Is it more likely against a parent or intimate partner and less likely with a friend or work colleague/boss?

    You said in a video that you have experienced a supernova. 3. How long did it last?

    4. How does the super empath’s cadre’s play a role in the supernova?
    5. Is a carrier less likely to go supernova than a savior?
    6. How does it differ based on cadres?

    Thank you!

    1. HG Tudor says:

      1. Your first question is unclear.
      2. Yes.
      3. A few minutes.
      4. It may impact on the nature of the supernova.
      5. Not necessarily.
      6. Too long to address in a comment.

      1. Dani says:

        Thank you, sir.

        Question 1 is unclear. I apologize. I meant to ask something to the effect of…’can a supernova occur regardless of a super empath’s place within a given narcissist’s fuel matrix?’

        1. HG Tudor says:


          1. Dani says:

            Thank you!

  2. Sorsha says:

    Unsure if I’ve hit a cliff fightback or a supernova. I have 2 or 3 family members that I suspect are narcs. I began carefully watching my brother after an incident over 10 years ago. The foster father (J) that my brother credits with saving his sanity asked me to have my brother call him. When I told me brother that J wanted to hear from him, my brother’s response was, “I don’t need him anymore.” I was stunned and began observing him carefully at that point. Last year I went No Contact, due to ongoing destructive attacks against me as a person, my character, calling me names. It’s not been easy, but I’ve stood strong.

    For the past 6 years, when getting together with my parents, I’ve refused all the stuff they serve at other people’s birthday parties. I have been polite but firm on all of those occasions. I never asked them to change their meal plans for me, rather I’d make sure to bring my own food or just not eat at all.

    For the past year, I’ve been struggling with a heavy duty sugar addiction. I’ve talked to my parents about how much weight I’d gained, how much shame and pain I was feeling, whilst crying, tears streaming down. I told them I didn’t even want to celebrate my birthday, given it’s association with cakes/ice cream. For my birthdays for the past 5 years, I’ve refused a cake and this year they knew I was deeply struggling with sugar cravings, despite not having any sugar (I would indulge in ketchup, but otherwise, no sweets at all). I had told them I didn’t want any food to be served and made it clear that I was reluctant to have any celebration at all. I finally agreed to a small get-together just to play some games.

    I walk in and they’ve got a cake sitting on the table. My mom demands I sit in front of the cake and blow out the candles. I light-heartedly try to deflect saying with covid, that seems like a bad idea. She insists, so I get the idea to tap the candles out using the serving spatula. Then, once that’s done, mom tells me to cut the cake. At that point, I say, “I’m not doing that.” and walk off to the bathroom to try to calm myself and keep from crying in pain and anger. I felt betrayed and shocked. They weren’t allowing me to just gracefully decline, she was demanding I interact with the cake and then told my husband to serve me a piece. He refused.

    After the party, I sent my mom a chat thanking her for trying to make my birthday special but also telling her that them having a cake there was awful and I didn’t want to celebrate my bday going forward. Then I get a nasty email from my father telling me how ungrateful and selfish I am. That no one was forcing cake on me. That I’m acting like a little child and I need to grow up and how much I disgust him. That he wants that kind of food served and I need to just accept it and be grateful.

    I double-checked with everyone at the party, my husband, my 17 yo daughter, my other brother. All were shocked my parents had a cake there, they all knew that was something I absolutely didn’t want.

    I know my mom is jealous and hurt when I’m at a healthy weight range, she’d made comments about me being too skinny (I was still 30 pounds above where my cardiologist wants me to be) and constantly pushed inappropriate food at me. I’ve had the sense that she’s been really happy at my misery as I allowed the weight to creep back on, this past year.

    I’m so angry, hurt, and determinedly defiant to get this extra weight off and not care if she is hurt or not. Is this a cliff battle or a super nova? There’s a part of me that wants to hurt her by getting down to where my cardiologist wants me to be, I’m ashamed to say.

    This just happened less than a week ago and I’m not to the point where I can stop talking or thinking about them. I know I’m not fully doing No Contact yet. I’m planning on getting the Triple Addiction package.

  3. Diane says:

    Whether SM ever existed or not – she’s nothing more than an “appliance” to HG.
    Unless there has been a crack in the space time continuum (& HG’s teachings have no basis) .. if SM is still in a relationship with HG, she has been experiencing, in one form or another, a “sustained devaluation”, with the odd “corrective devaluation” & “respite period” thrown in for good measure, for quite some time.
    That needs to sink in.
    In relation to HG’s attitude toward the rest of us, I refer to his video, “The Narcissistic Truths No 2 – I am empty I show you what you want to see”, which spells it out in searing detail. These are truths I will not be forgetting.

  4. annaamel says:

    HG, I think you are somewhat sceptical about some diagnoses used in psychology or psychiatry. May I ask what your thoughts are on ADHD? It is associated with heightened emotionality and reactivity.

  5. cbostermsn says:

    There is another on the Empath Spectrum that you failed to mention. Those that are able to compartmentalize compassion and empathy in order to challenge one who needs to be challenged. They can attack the ego and slice it like a rotten melon when the narcissist least expects it. These are the empaths that can “feel” a narcissist on an elevator or even through a social media post. These empaths, feel an incongruence within your kind and for some reason, love and despise you INSTANTLY. They crave your darkness the way you crave their light. They quickly feel the separation between the shell and the soul. They literally FEEL your despair, emptiness, and disconnectedness to the shared reality of others. They feel hate and rage ONLY through you. They are incapable of hate and have never felt rage. Your darkness is their fuel and they love the way you taste. They don’t feed their egos with your fuel, they use it against you. These are the anti-narcissists. My kind.

    1. HG Tudor says:


      1. annaamel says:

        This explains the earlier post

      2. perplexiglass says:

        Apparently my Tudor to English translation App has to be updated.

      3. perplexiglass says:

        Commented like a perfect cerebral narcissist and liked by the minions. I’m smiling from ear to ear. Damn, I just love narcissists. I’m always entertained and fascinated.

      4. Jordyguin says:

        ISMR = I see a mid-range n ?

      5. KitKat says:

        Ah yes, the Heyoka empath, a rare breed indeed.

    2. Truthseeker6157 says:

      “They feel hate and rage ONLY through you. They are incapable of hate and have never felt rage.”

      Spot the deliberate mistake.


      Do they were those fancy Ninja eye masks as well? I’m in if I get a free Ninja eye mask.

      1. Truthseeker6157 says:


      2. perplexiglass says:

        My truth is not a deliberate mistake. I have no control of how you interpret my truth. It’s as difficult for you to understand an inability to feel hate as it is for empaths to understand that you don’t have the ability to truly love or feel connected to others. I have felt intense anger but never an overwhelming rage. I don’t even hate the people who have betrayed me or abandoned me. They were only thinking about themselves and how I react to it is on ME. This was what I became through my childhood trauma. Basically an opposite reaction to that of a narc.

        Denying the existence of your opposite does not wipe us from existence.

        I applaud your unusual ability to pull thoughts from the mind of a narc and present them to us in a way that we can understand. My concern is the underlying tone of fear. Fear is used for control. It also feeds the narc’s need for power and self hatred. “Run away little deer, before I eat you.” I kinda used the same tone with my comment so you’d react in a tone of denial and dismissal. I’m merely mirroring. When we read your posts, we receive fuel to further demonize you and feed our egos of moral superiority over your kind. We are really not very different than you. You are not demons and we are not angels. Your kind simply feeds the ego to suppress the inner pain. We feed to worsen our inner pain so we can destroy our ego. I’m just trying to help you understand us they way you help us understand you. I don’t really “enjoy” learning about your truth but I’m learning to “get you.” Given your level of narcissism, I certainly don’t expect you to “get me.” Thank you for perfect cerebral narcissistic response. I would have found it irritating a year ago. Today it just made me smile. This is proof that what you are doing actually does a lot of good in a world that desperately needs less polarization and more balance.

        1. Rebecca says:


          I’m sorry I nodded off, while reading your reply here.

        2. Contagious says:

          I don’t understand at all sorry. There are allegations by you I think that Empaths aren’t angels (true) and have inner pain ( to some degree all humans have suffering of some sort) are cerebral narcissists ( wtf?) and that everyone who is not a narc is reacting to messages on the basis of fear which serves to fuel the narcissist (HG?). This logic is so flawed I do nt know where to begin. I refer you to the knowledge vault and a consult. Maybe you just are making quick assumptions but sadly I fear that you are just trying to shoot arrows to shoot arrows. I hope I am wrong as there are good people here who benefit from the wisdom offered by HG whether his motive is pure or not.

      3. perplexiglass says:

        My truth is not a deliberate mistake. Your interpretation of my truth is solely based on your reality. How you choose yo interpret it is Here’s your mask 🥷🏽. ninjas don’t ever cover their eyes.

        1. Jordyguin says:

          Ninja turtles wear eye masks .. 🤓🐢

          1. Truthseeker6157 says:

            Hahaha! You got me there Jordyguin. Busted! I loved ninja turtles!

          2. Jordyguin says:

            Time to put them on Truthseeker6157 and shake up some elevators!!! (I can’t! Just love the elevator example boss ninja used lol)
            Ayee you narcs out there watch out! Elevators won’t ever be safe again🐢🐢 There are empaths out.. wait no, what is it called? Ah yea anti-narcissists out there who will „not feed their egos with your fuel, they use it against you“!
            For others if you see two cuties with ninja masks on elevators, it’s us!♡♡Say hi🤓

          3. Truthseeker6157 says:


            “If you see two cuties with ninja masks on elevators, it’s us!”

            Shhh, you’ll spoil the element of surprise, we’re supposed to be in disguise!!!


        2. Rebecca says:

          No Perplexiglass, it’s based on your sentences and your words. You contradict yourself, reread your own words and see for yourself. You can’t self reflect, but hopefully you can do a little proofreading next time. We know what you are, you’re not fooling us.

      4. Rebecca says:

        😁😆 at your comment.
        Perplexiglass needs to get a mirror….

        1. Truthseeker6157 says:


          Or a new truth!


    3. Jordyguin says:

      – These are the empaths that can “feel” a narcissist on an elevator or even through a social media post. –

      Girl, use stairs .. If you „crave their darkness“ look up Chained and Sex and the Narcissist. It will free you of your cravings.

      1. perplexiglass says:

        😂😂😂😂 I sure will!!

      2. perplexiglass says:

        The purpose of my comment was to separate the real empaths from the hunting narcissists in empath camouflage. Empaths immediately relate to the comment on some level. Narcs interpreted it as a threat and will respond in some way. Next, I evaluate the narcs’ responses and place them into my imaginary boxes of lesser, mid-range, or greater. This is how I evaluate the danger of this site. Cyber society is a feeding ground for narcissists. If I happen upon a feeding ground, I look around for a while.

        Let me explain. An Empath understands the phrase
        “Craving the darkness.” It’s why we are attracted to them. Evolved empaths neither fear nor hate the narcissist. We actually enjoy interacting with them. We learn to feel and process negative emotions and empathize with their kind. By doing this, I learned that I shouldn’t feel guilty when someone praises me or compliments me. My ego protects me from being drowned by the emotions of others. My ego needs to be fed once in a while, and it’s ok to like it. I’ve also learned how to become cold, calculating, and manipulative. It sounds counterintuitive for an Empath, but it’s not about becoming a narcissist, it’s about BALANCE. I use these skills at work EVERY DAY as a nurse, counselor, and educator. I manipulate nursing students’ minds to get them to think differently about others and themselves. I can become cold as ice with a psychopathic patient to prevent myself from being caught in his snare and unable to help him through the dying process. I’ve learned to be calculating with my lectures, emails, and presentations so I can have an emotional impact. I’ve also become patient when dealing with sociopaths and narcissists, instead of allowing them to frustrate the shit out me to the point of walking away to care for a patient who appreciates my time.
        Because I am learning to empathize with narcissists, I can just feel this growing narc demonization as further fueling their self-loathing. I can feel these “recovering” narcs feasting on a new high. If I were a narc reading victims’ forums, describing how I’m a demon and victims should run away, I would just learn to manipulate them differently. If I read all of the professional explanations of how my disorder is incurable and only MY behaviors can be changed to suit YOU, I would say. “Why the holy fuck would I even bother unless forced? “Ok. So you’re saying I’m a demon? Well, I’m perfect and therefore, I must be a perfect, fucking demon!” How is this helpful to us or THEM?

        My comments are just used as a means to encourage conversation between both sides. I always hope for an unpredictable response by a narcissist, but rarely get one. I always hope for a truly empathic response to a narcissist, but I rarely see an empath make the effort.

        Some day narcs and empaths will learn to respect, feed, and heal each other as they are supposed to. Until then, we will fight amongst ourselves, torture the ones who can stop us from torturing ourselves, and continue to lie to ourselves about ourselves. We will continue to not only deny ourselves the fruits of the forbidden tree, but will suck the poisonous sap to sicken the tree and ourselves.

        I don’t expect anyone to agree with me here. I’m quite used to seeing reality as the complete opposite of others. No one EVER likes MY version, because it would mean that mirror is reality and YOU are the reflection.

    4. Rebecca says:

      No, you’re just an unaware narcissist, sounds like a lesser because you think of yourself as a Billy badass, but you’re mostly all mouth and no teeth….gumming your victims much? I recommend not avoiding the dentist so much, you might keep the rest of your teeth….that is, if HG doesn’t knock them out first.

  6. Rebecca says:


    I know what you mean by wanting to turn off your mind at times, I’ve been there myself and like you, I wouldn’t want to give up my abilities either. They’ve allowed me to survive a great deal. I think our empathy is a defense mechanism that causes more alertness to our environment and people in that environment. Our minds are more awake than normal people and I prefer to be more awake, eventhough it causes me more pain. It also allows me to experience the highs of my emotional range, so it’s not all doom and gloom. Thanks for the mental hug and I accept it and return one to you. Xo

    1. Leigh says:

      Hi Rebecca,
      Sorry for jumping in, but I love what you said here:

      “Our minds are more awake than normal people and I prefer to be more awake, even though it causes me more pain.”

      Its such a great way to put it. I prefer being awake too. Thank you for sharing.

      1. A Victor says:

        Hi Leigh and Rebecca, this is so interesting, I feel like in some ways my mind has been more asleep, all my life. Not willing to look at the abusive, negative things done to me or in the larger world, I have lived much of my life in a sort of fog. Now, learning about narcissism these last couple of years, I feel I have finally been waking up. I find it sad as over half my life is already gone. But happy also since better late than never.

        Watching the recent video about Princess Kate was an eye opener also. Even though I have felt half asleep, and did not see how others perceived me, I see from that video how the empathy shows to people and thus why they’re drawn to me. This has always confused me because I didn’t want many of them to interact with me but they still did. I am zero magnet cadre but people are apparently drawn to empaths even without that. I wonder if the difference is that those with Magnet are more charming, HG said Princess Kate is to some degree but not overwhelmingly so. I don’t know if she has Magnet or not. She’ll be going on a Knowing the Empath I guess.

        1. Leigh says:

          That’s interesting AV. When I responded to Rebecca, I wasn’t thinking about myself. Yes, I agree that before I found Mr. Tudor, I was in a fog and asleep with regards to the toxicity and abuse directed at me. However, I did and still do feel more awake about other people’s feelings and how my actions could affect other people. I couldn’t see it in myself but I could see it with others. I also took it to mean that I can learn and grow from my life experiences. The narcissist sees no reason to learn or grow because their inflated sense of self thinks they’re perfect and that makes them the ones that are actually asleep.

          Thankfully, finding HG has woken me up to the abuse and toxicity.

      2. Rebecca says:

        Hi Leigh,

        You’re welcome and I don’t mind you commenting here. It’s HG’s blog and its an open blog….thanks for your compliment. I’m glad you liked my comment. Thank you.

    2. Contagious says:

      Your ability to read people also reads joy, happiness, inner content. It’s an ability to read. For example I worked a long hard day, came home and my house had the sound of young marines laughing and sharing on VETERANS DAY. I realized I had a grin ear to ear that would not exist but for feeling their friendship or “ brotherhood.” When I loved one a friend or family or even a stranger or coworker shares a happy story of scievement, pleasure or success I am elevated. It makes my day . Empathy is a gift. Yes we can feel others darkness or anger or depression or sadness or rage but we feel the positive emotions too;)

  7. Duchessbea says:

    Great article. The irony of the narcissist never fails to amaze me. I know you love to be the dominant one in the relationship, but if you didn’t act the bollocks with your Empath and left those behaviours for outside the relationship, I know, you know, that if you didn’t act up in the relationship with an Empath and treated your Empath like the Queen she is, you would be treated like a King, an Emperor, person of extremely high value and respect, and you would be showered with incredible Love every hour of everyday that you were in the relationship. You would be swimming in so much fuel, you wouldn’t know what to do with yourself. In particular with a SE, the premium fuel you would receive on a daily basis, HG, you have no idea how incredible you would feel. Your only problem would be trying to keep up the act as an SE would be onto to you straight away at the slightest drop in your behaviour. Once that happens its ‘leave your key and close the door behind you’ very soon after. Although, I have to say, I am very impressed that you are treating Shieldmaiden with respect and not playing up. Has our beloved HG found the woman for him? There will be a lot of broken hearts if you have. But, I am delighted for you that things are going very well with Shieldmaiden.

    1. Contagious says:

      HG: your relationship with Shieldmaiden has been awhile. Why? Have you found the key to narc-empath long term relations. Why and what are you doing to make it work? I wish you both happiness. Just curious.

    2. JB says:


      If HG is a narcissist, then the idea that all is well with SM because she is the right woman for him won’t come into it. HG, by his own admission, shows us what he wants to show us. How do you know all is well with SM? How do you know that she even exists? Because HG has told us so? The thing I have come to truly accept over the past 2 years is that people aren’t always what they claim to be. And that, I learnt as a result of HG’s teaching.

    3. JB says:


      I just posted a reply to what you wrote here, but don’t think it went through so will attempt to resend…

      What I said was that if HG is a narcissist, then the idea that things are going well with SM because of the notion that she is the right woman for him won’t come into the equation. It just can’t happen, and it would be somewhat idealistic to think that it could (sadly). HG, by his own admission, shows us what he wants us to see. How do you know things are going well with SM? Because HG has told us? How do you know she even exists? The thing I have come to truly accept over the past 2 years is that people aren’t always what they seem. HG himself was the one responsible for this.

    4. NarcAngel says:

      It reads as empath romantic thinking to suggest that if HG didn’t “act the bollocks” that he would be “showered with incredible love every hour of every day” while in a relationship with an empath. Empaths are people and not magical beings, so this is an unrealistic representation and expectation.

      Also, I know that you only mean to express your hope for HG to find lasting happiness with SM (and many do), but it is dangerous and erroneous to suggest that because someone is simply still in a relationship with a narcissist that they are being treated with respect, and that the narcissist is not acting up. Some narcissists and empaths stay locked in the dynamic for years, but that does not mean things are going well.

      1. Contagious says:

        Trauma bonding?

    5. Anna says:

      Excellent post Duchessbea, and so very true. I catch my partner enjoying upsetting me. It is like they get a sadistic thrill out of it. I can never understand why anyone could derive pleasure out of another person’s suffering, but this seems to be the way those with NPD are made. After the Golden Period, when the devaluation begins it is almost like you married Mr Jekyl and are now living with Mr Hyde.

    6. Leigh says:

      Hi DB, have you listened to Mr. Tudor’s videos “The Narcissist’s Double Abuse” & “Why Doesn’t the Narcissist Ask for What They Want?”

      The first videos explains that all fuel sources, especially the IPPS are being abused in the golden period because its a manipulation.
      The second video explains why doing what you suggested would be a transference of power. Transferring power would suggest weakness so Mr. Tudor would never do that.

      One last thing, I know bloggers are happy for Mr. Tudor and Shieldmaiden but from where I stand, she’s on the Wheel of Misery because whether she knows it or not, she’s in an abusive relationship.

  8. jordyguin says:

    HG, but i wonder what about the Contagion Empath?? How does their Supernova look like??
    Where can i find more information about Contagion type specifically?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      There is more work on the Contagion Empath in the pipeline.

      1. jordyguin says:

        Ok! Thank you! 🤍
        (I found a little bit more on Contagion in your videos meanwhile:))

      2. Joa says:

        Yes Yes Yes! 🙂

        1. Asp Emp says:

          Joa, is that you jumping around the room in excitement? 🙂

          1. Rebecca says:

            Asp Emp,
            Me too! Me too! I’m looking forward to more info on all the empath Schools and Cadres! 😁❤

          2. Asp Emp says:

            Laughing, at your apparent excitement 🙂

          3. Joa says:

            Asp Emp, nooo 🙂

            But indeed, I sometimes jump with excitement, dance, spin, hit into objects as if I were playing a drum, sing, talk loudly to people and of course laugh like crazy 🙂

          4. Asp Emp says:


    2. Asp Emp says:

      jordyguin, I recall using the eruption of Mt St Helens as a way of describing the “supanova” I experienced. The slow build up, the explosion, followed by the long ‘abating’ of the pent up emotions, namely anger. Regardless of what it was, it was immense and long 🙂

    3. jasmin says:

      Hi Jordyguin,

      1. Asp Emp says:

        Hi jasmin, thank you for the link, even though I have seen this video before, it was good to re-read it 🙂

        1. jasmin says:

          Hi Asp Emp,
          Nice too see you and I’m glad you find it useful.😊

          1. Asp Emp says:

            Thank you, Jasmin, good to see you too 🙂 Hope all is well with you 🙂

    4. Contagious says:

      HG will ( hopefully soon but busy guy) figure out the Contagion response. But as a contagian who has gone NC with narcs… it’s this darkness and heaviness that you repel from. You accept with best intentions ( ET ) but then “ they happen” and you naturally feel inside like you arrested getting sucked in a black hole. It feels almost evil. They show themselves in your subconscious and it pushes forth to your conscious to the point of intolerance. It’s this negativity and this destructive pull that tries to break you from your true self. You become very aware. You know. Their pleas, charm, bullying, no longer is heard. It falls on deaf ears. Done. You see them clearly …. in time. Your gut screams. You just can’t tolerate it anymore so you break all ties. Move to the Light. To you. To a healthy balance away from that dark energy. Not sure if this makes sense. HG will do better. No doubt.

      1. Contagious says:

        Also you learn their secrets their weakness but you never cause harm. You could. But if you did you would harm yourself.

        1. Jordyguin says:

          So I’m starting to guess that a Contagion is someone who is alike a CoD – a kind of its own – not finished Narcissist in a way but with a much larger/heavy felt empathy/pain than a normal Empath (and even a Super Empath)?

          Contagion does feel the pain of empaths and narcissists? Is the pain different by the way? Narcissists feel only the pain of their own creature. Empaths feel the pain of others and their own (creature?).

          Anakin Skywalker springs in to mind. Someone who wanted to do good but the pain transformed him and he became the opposite.

          There is not a loss of the self-esteem in the Contagion, to the degree as it is with the CoD is it correct?

          1. HG Tudor says:


          2. WhoCares says:


          3. Asp Emp says:

            jordyguin, “not finished narcissist”, interesting 🙂 The ‘pain’ you speak of, is not a nice ‘burden’ to carry but once it is understood (one’s past, what caused it, what ‘added’ to it etc), it can, in some way, be released by ‘processing’ it mentally and emotionally. Having said that, it can make some people appear ‘hardened’ because of what they went through, yet have such a soft centre. Interesting to read your comment, thank you for sharing it 🙂

          4. Contagious says:

            Interesting! May the Force be with you! Lol

          5. Witch says:

            @ Jordyguin

            I’m minority co-dependent and contagion
            And I wonder if this is a contributing factor to my mental health problems.
            Right now, I’m feeling overwhelmed by everything and I really wish I had a different brain.
            I asked my GP to refer me for an autism assessment but he refused (like I knew he would because they never listen and always think you’re being a melodramatic female)
            So now I’m on antidepressants and on a waiting list for CBT.
            I hate being an empath right now!

          6. Asp Emp says:

            Witch, are you able to access and obtain a second opinion from another GP, or external organisation? If you do have autism, CBT may not the best solution (in my view) because those delivering the CBT “therapy” may not be as aware of autism, or even understand it enough to offer you the support you are seeking. Being a victim of narcissistic abuse is an additional factor that may not be taken into consideration where CBT is concerned? Accessing the right support from the right source(s) will alleviate the issues you find in regard to your mental (and probably emotional) health. You could contact the organisation (ie management) that oversees the GP services and make some enquiries ie accessing the autism diagnostic system and where you can go in order to speak with people who know and understand Complex Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (CPTSD) – which is basically a combination of what addiction to narcissism and narcissistic abuse is / does to people. You do not necessarily need to mention narcissism until at a later stage? You could consider a consult with HG – he could probably explain it better than I may have here and point you in the directions that he knows that would work for you?

          7. Leigh says:

            @Witch, I’m so sorry to hear you’re having a tough time right now. Is there any chance you can get a second opinion regarding the autism assessment? I hope you’re feeling better soon. I know it won’t help much but I’m sending a virtual hug.

          8. Rebecca says:

            I have both 18% Contagion and 27% CoD. I’m 55% Standard, those are my Schools. My Cadre are 50% Savior, 25% Geyser and 25% Carrier.
            I worried for a time that I was a narcissist, as my CoD gets triggered in 4 ways and I feel desperate when it’s triggered. The worse is when I feel numb and that happens when I go through grief so deeply that I wash up on the shore feeling numb and spent….almost drowned by my grief….such as when my dad died. He was the one I cling to growing up, my safe zone in childhood…when he passed, I fell apart and then went on autopilot for a while…numbness, didn’t care if I lived or died, just was existing day to day. I don’t like my CoD to be triggered, living like that is a death sentence.

          9. Witch says:

            Sorry to be negative but I don’t have high hopes for CBT and being told to breathe deeply when I’m anxious and feel like cutting my skin off

            The GP asked me if I get overwhelmed in supermarkets by the lights and colours and I said no and then he asked me, when I’m speaking to someone can I understand why they might be upset about something and I said yes and he said he doesn’t think it’s autism after asking me those 2 questions.

            My trichollomania got bad again and now I have a bald spot. (Hence the Cynthia from Rugrats profile picture, that’s me laughing at my own disorder.)
            I saw a survey on a Facebook group for people with trichollomania and out of 106 votes 25% had been diagnosed with either autism or ADHD or both.
            Of course I could just have anxiety and PTSD symptoms.

            I’m thinking of having a private diagnosis but it’s expensive- I was told £600 for the assessment but if I need further assessments it will cost more. And then if I’m not on the spectrum or it’s inconclusive i know I’m going to feel bad for spending all that money and I might just feel like more of a freak so I’m scared.
            I’m scared of being assessed by someone employed directly by NHS as well because I’ve heard bad stories

          10. Asp Emp says:

            Witch, thank you for your reply 🙂 . I suggested in my earlier comment to you that CBT may not be the best route for you. Because you have not had a confirmation of a diagnosis to support that CBT is the right thing for you.

            The GP asked you 2 questions ?! Have you heard of the National Autistic Society (NAS)? You can explain your situation with them, including the difficulties with the GP you spoke with, their suggestions of CBT / medication.

            You do have the right to refuse to see the GP that is not listening to you, you are allowed to request for another GP instead. I refused anti-depressants from my GP (I no longer have appts with that GP because of a number of appts that led me to think they were and did not listen to me properly – they made mistakes with my medications over a number of years). My instincts told me that anti-depressants were not the answer to my case. I self-diagnosed the CPTSD from reading HG’s work and shared that with another GP who does listen and act as I would expect from a medical professional.

            Your EDC results is evidence that you do not have Borderline Personality Disorder (with HG’s permission, you may be able to share some of that info with NAS / GP). His video ‘Narcissism or Autism’ is very good.

            Maybe take an Autism self-assessment printout that you took online with you to your next GP appt? I used to take a list of bullet points when attending GP appts.

            Try and exhaust all routes rather than paying privately. In my opinion, you have enough evidence to support and to justify diagnostics to be paid for by the NHS.

          11. Asp Emp says:

            Witch, thank you for your reply 🙂 .

            I did respond a couple days after your original reply.

            I suggested in my earlier comment to you that CBT may not be the best route for you. Because you have not had a confirmation of a diagnosis to support that CBT is the right thing for you.

            The GP asked you 2 questions ?! Have you heard of the National Autistic Society (NAS)? You can explain your situation with them, including the difficulties with the GP you spoke with, their suggestions of CBT / medication.

            You do have the right to refuse to see the GP that is not listening to you, you are allowed to request for another GP instead. I refused anti-depressants from my GP (I no longer have appts with that GP because of a number of appts that led me to think they were and did not listen to me properly – they made mistakes with my medications over a number of years). My instincts told me that anti-depressants were not the answer to my case. I self-diagnosed the CPTSD from reading HG’s work and shared that with another GP who does listen and act as I would expect from a medical professional.

            Your EDC results is evidence that you do not have Borderline Personality Disorder (with HG’s permission, you may be able to share some of that info with NAS / GP). His video ‘Narcissism or Autism’ is very good.

            Maybe take an Autism self-assessment printout that you took online with you to your next GP appt? I used to take a list of bullet points when attending GP appts.

            Try and exhaust all routes rather than paying privately. In my opinion, you have enough evidence to support and to justify diagnostics to be paid for by the NHS.

            Update: you can contact PALS (Patient Advice and Liaison Service) – they act as an independent but can offer advice in regard to any complaints you may have about the NHS. I do know what I am talking about because I used to volunteer as someone who was / is a service-user / patient and I would openly share my opinions with the local Clinical Commissioning Group (that is who I was directly volunteering for) and I got to know some of the systems, or lack of – which I pointed out, obviously. While GPs may be “employed” by the NHS, some practices are privately owned and GPs get paid by the NHS. It’s things like this that people may not realise (as an example).

            NHS England’s ‘Accessible Information Standard’ – I would suggest you access this online and read what they say. You can use this as part of your process (diagnostic and / or complaint).

            Apologies, HG, I know this is not directly narcissism related and I thank you for your time in moderating xx

          12. Witch says:

            Thanks Leigh
            I have to make another appointment soon to have the anti-depressants reviewed (and no I don’t really feel like they are making a difference after 2 weeks of taking them but I was told they would take up to 6 weeks to make a difference)
            It might be a different GP in the second appointment and I can bring it up again. During the first GP appointment he said I have to do the CBT first to see if it works

          13. Leigh says:

            @Witch, I read your response to Asp and can’t believe your GP is making a decision about Autism based on those two answers. I’m sorry this is happening to you. I’ve had my own issues with doctors. Some of them are quacks. If it is anxiety and PTSD, the CBT could work. Hopefully, you get it resolved soon.

            I hope this is ok to ask. I think last year you were getting ready to visit with your grandmother. I’m just being nosy so you don’t have to answer if you don’t want to but did that visit ever take place? How’d it go?

          14. Jordyguin says:

            Dear Witch, I hope things are doing better! You mentioned an essential point!
            – „I really wish I had a different brain.“ And „I hate being an empath right now“

            Remember HG saying „I already won before I even entered the battle.“
            That’s very accurate!
            We turn the „force of hate“ on ourselves, against ourselves. This is the only way possible they can win. Other ways simply don’t exist.

            The concurring of our kind is already in place in every detail by our upbringing. We rightfully struggle to accept the mantra of „we are the malfunctioning kind“ and that is that frustrates and we hate being ourselves for that incapability to fulfill the demand of a mold that we simply never will be able to fit. Plus the frustration of being left alone in this and the manifestation of not being capable to flee or end this injustice, plus the overwhelm by everything, you’re speaking of – your empathic sensors are not protected. We must learn to cover those sensors up sometimes, otherwise we would go mad.

          15. Jordyguin says:

            Dear Rebecca, I can relate to what you describe, what you’re going through at times and it’s a very heavy state. Loosing the anchor (your dad) and being thrown in to the storming sea unprepared. And as we know ships are not built to stay in the harbor and they will enter the sea and sail into the unknown one day, as all that is left to us, is becoming a captain. The loved once who are not here anymore – they sail different seas now and we can always connect to them and exchange sailing tips:)) We are explorers by nature and we meant to sail unknown seas and discover magical islands and have the most exiting adventures! One day unexpectedly realising that we are in charge of our own anchor and we decide when to let it down and when not, navigating every weather the sea is throwing at us, following the call of our ancestors, who one by one, generation by generation never gave up and brought you here! This gift of life from all of them to you dear — you have all their strength. Both – empathic and narcissistic strengths as we have both kinds in our DNA. You (me, us) need to find the balance to them. To align the sail (our conditioning) with the winds (empathic+narcissistic traits).

          16. Jordyguin says:

            Thank you dear, Asp Emp :)) Yes, definitely the cure for us lies in understanding. Our individual past and the past of our perpetrators. May they be our parents, authority figures, or even historical events that led to this toxic dance of our species. I guess at times we are in conflict with our unbalanced selves and with the unbalanced selves of others and that creates the unbelievable limited use of our potential.

            And as you wrote – people appear ‘hardened’ because of what they went through, yet have such a soft centre. – This applies to both kinds very much, I think. With narcissists in fact hard to admit. But when we hear their stories of abuse and what they went through, there is an understanding for them. They mostly use it (this background and our understanding of it) against us and continue the wishes cycle. And that is difficult to understand actually. The necessity of the narcissistic protection mechanism creates a safety for them on the cost of the base it stands on. Our own misinterpreted weakness is the base, I think. The mantra of „you are weak and inferior“ is constantly in our face. Or the mantra „you are the greatest thing that ever lived“. It hits the soft spot which becomes fixed and it takes then time to loose it up again and draw other conclusions and make other decisions.

          17. Asp Emp says:

            Hello jordyguin, thank you for your reply 🙂 I understand your “conflict with our unbalanced selves” and I would agree that would be the case when one has no knowledge about narcissism. And, yes, I would also agree that it can (and does) restrict our potential of which may not have been available as children, throughout teenage years, even on occasion, adult years. Some people have natural (latent) talents that are not always utilised “correctly” because of the narcissistic “training”, yet, within some people, that ‘talent’ develops in any case. I suppose, that ‘talent’ can be released and utilised especially after gaining some insight that was “allusive” (held back by “incorrect training” within child / teens natural development years).

            RE: the hardened / softness – with the majority of narcissists unaware of what they are, that is the “barrier” to them ‘admitting’ their vulnerabilities as their instinctive response will kick in before the cognitive response would. And then the cognitive part “wakes up” and “re-directs” their thoughts by applying the assertions of control.

            What I will say is that I recall saying to the effect of “I cannot separate my thoughts from my emotions” some years ago (prior to my Aspergers diagnosis). I said this to someone who was questioning my behaviours / reactions to situations. They were actually blame-shifting (deflecting from how they were behaving!). Now, I can (separate thoughts / emotions) in some way (providing I am in an environment that is familiar to me) only because I now know what was “wrong” about my thinking / feeling “processes”.

            Today, I carried out 3 ‘tasks’ outside my home. I was more acutely “aware” of how I was feeling / thinking – there was no reactions because of past experiences. I did get the sensation of anxiety, only because my Aspergers was “kicking” in, rather than any ET (ie CPTSD related) in making a decision (ie changing banks). That, in itself, does a great deal for me because I know what I have learned about myself is the increased, and more “correct” awareness of ‘me’.

            So, yes, learning HG’s work has assisted quite significantly in decision making. Sometimes I **procrastinate but far less now, it is just a matter of speaking to the right person at the right time, who knows the subject well and puts the customer first. One is a narcissist and I just walked away because if it was a non-narcissist, they would have taken some steps deviating from what the problem was (I was thinking why does he not go and get some new batteries to test the torch instead of faffing around with the batteries that was already in it), so I said “I’ll go somewhere else” (and, thus, taking my ‘power’ with me 😉 ). Decision making can sometimes be instinctive supplied with a throw away statement (LOL).

            **procrastination is probably a combined “weakness” stemming from past (abuse / unawareness) experiences, Aspergers (in my case) and intuition – which all can ‘kick’ in at the same time. Now, it is easier to “listen” to myself (intuition / understanding) and make decisions with more clarity. Yes, good point that I understand exactly, “it takes then time to loose it up again and draw other conclusions and make other decisions”. Once again, thank you for your reply, interesting and good to read 🙂

          18. Joa says:

            Witch, I am very sorry for your health difficulties. Hope you find a way to keep your balance. I think these difficulties are not related to the fact, that you are Codependent and Contagion. Maybe external factors? I am also Codependent (over 50%) and Contagion (over 30%) and despite the fact, that sometimes I have chaos or howling despair inside, in contact with people and in life I am a very stable person [damn, wasn’t it me, a week ago shouted in the office of CEO (N.): “No! Just, NO!”, until they heard me in the secretariat and nearby offices, ha ha ha 😊].
            The best medicine I know is openness, honesty and understanding in contact with people and withdrawing into my solitude, when the pressure of the outside world becomes too great (I cut off for 2-3 days). On the other hand, at my work, many women use antidepressants. From what they say and what I see, well-chosen drugs of this kind really save their lives. As if they were “coming back to yourself”. I try to support them with a smile, a joke, a gesture and a word, and sometimes with a slight shock, as best I can.

            Ha, ha, ha – I also sometimes tell my friends: “Can someone just turn my brain off right now?” (but I would not give it to anyone!) 😊 And, I describe my condition and thoughts, and what I am “absorbed” at the moment. Talking to people, self-discipline and highly focused work – they always help me.

            Rebecca, but similar! My cadres are also a combination of: Geyser, Carrier and Saviour 😊 Only with a minimal dominance of the first two frames.
            Sometimes autopilot mode is needed, just to get through the toughest times. I am hugging.

          19. Witch says:


            Thank you for your message Joa.
            I spoke with someone about it at work and she agreed that I don’t socialise “normally” although she did not use those exact words. She said even when I am around people, I’m still alone. she said she finds it endearing but agrees that I’m different in that sense and that I should pursue an assessment.
            I might save up for one and get it over with so I stop fixating on it.
            I definitely think that genetically I must have a shorter tolerance for stress even though I find it stimulating at the same time.
            I’m going to continue with the antidepressants and see if they make a difference after a few months.

          20. Witch says:


            It’s okay, I don’t mind you asking.
            I have been visiting my grandmother and we stay in touch. There have been a couple of indications that she could be a midrange narcissist, but it’s difficult to say because she doesn’t talk loads. For example before we were married she asked my wife to break up with me, because she’s one of those extra catch the holy spirit Christians. Over time she’s voiced her disapproval less and less because it doesn’t make a difference and I don’t react to it and then she says “well as long as your happy” 🤣

          21. A Victor says:

            Hi Witch, sorry to be late to the game here, I’m not getting notified about a lot now. But I did see early on your initial comment about your frustrations and have been thinking about you and hoping all is well. Just wanted to say hi and that my thoughts are with you as you are going through all of this.

          22. Leigh says:

            @Witch, I’m sorry to hear your grandmother might be a mid range narcissist. I remember you saying your mother would limit the time you spent with her as a child because she thought she was a narcissist.

            How are you feeling? Are the antidepressants working? I’m keeping my fingers and toes crossed for you.

          23. WiserNow says:

            Hi Witch,

            After reading this thread, I’m very sorry you’re feeling anxious. In case it may assist, here are some suggestions. I’ll add my two cents here because these things have helped me in my own experience.

            1. If you are feeling either very low or extremely anxious, anti-depressants may help, but I think taking them is a short-term solution. To illustrate, imagine you have a broken ankle. The first thing to do would be to stay off the ankle and rest. That would alleviate the pain and prevent further damage. Eventually though, the underlying broken bone would need to be healed properly for you to fully recover.

            That’s how I view anti-depressants. They are a short-term fix. They will help you from wanting to tear your skin off and they will help you to keep functioning and going to work, feeling able to communicate with people, etc. In the longer-term, it’s not a good idea to keep taking them though. They will not remove the underlying emotional causes of your anxiety..

            2. It sounds like your emotional nervous system has been through a lot. To help relax your system, it may assist to change some habits and take some vitamins that strengthen your immunity and nervous system. Here’s a list of things that have helped me:
            a) Cut down or avoid caffeine. Have 1 or 2 cups of coffee/tea per day at most or none at all. Replace caffeine drinks with things like peppermint tea, camomile tea, rosehip tea, etc. Check anything you drink for caffeine and avoid it if it’s there.

            b) Take a magnesium vitamin. I have a powdered form that’s easily absorbed and I take it before bedtime. Magnesium helps strengthen your nervous system and relaxes you. When taken before bedtime, it helps you have deep REM sleep which helps to restores your nerves and gives you more emotional resilience. From what I have researched, it has a positive effect on the Vagus nerve which is a large nerve running through your central nervous system.

            c) Take Vitamin D. Vitamin D acts as a ‘pre-hormone’ in the body. This means it is used by the body’s glandular system and converted into a hormone. Without getting technical, the hormone produced in this way then activates other bodily functions. It helps to make your immune system more robust; it helps healthy cell growth; it reduces inflammation; and it helps keep bones stronger. It also has positive effects on the nervous system. Normally, Vitamin D is received when sunlight on the skin is converted by the body. In Northern hemisphere climates for example, people have less sun exposure and are more prone to low Vitamin D levels. Another aspect is that Vitamin D needs to be taken on a regular basis consistently over time. This means the levels of beneficial pre-hormone released from taking a supplement are maintained at a positive level over a period of time.

            I’m suggesting Vitamin D because it helps strengthen bones, cells and nerves as well. It sounds like your stress and anxiety levels are high which has a detrimental effect on your nerves. By boosting your all-round health and immunity, it will make your all-round nervous system stronger.

            PS. These suggestions are generally safe and helpful if your health is ‘normal’ overall and if you don’t have any specific issues with your health. I’m not a doctor and I don’t know you personally so please consider any health concerns you may have before taking any supplements.

            3. Avoid people and situations that cause you stress and anxiety. Adopt a somewhat ‘don’t care’ attitude. Be aware of how you feel when you’re relaxed and get more of that. Do things that help like: sleep more; be in nature; be alone; take a nap when tired, etc. Stay away from people who are difficult or provoke you. And, importantly, practice not caring so much about letting people down. Put yourself first and tell yourself that you are doing it for a reason. Ignore any complaints and ignore the so-called “christians” 😉

            4. Stress has an effect on the brain that causes more automatic responding and habitual behaviours. This kind of habitual responding can be anxiety-inducing. This has been tested and the findings are that stress actually causes the brain to ‘make’ its own stress.
            Here is an article that may help to understand this:
            ‘Caution: Stress can be habit-forming.’
            by Patricia Ferrone
            – can be found online in HuffPost if you google it. It’s a quick read and gives a good description of how stress affects the brain.

            These are easy to follow suggestions that have helped me. It’s a drawn-out process when you want to reduce anxiety or depression. It’s not a quick fix. It takes time and self-knowledge. You need to ‘listen’ to your mind and body and do the things that give you joy or help you feel relaxed. Also, learn to say no or at least think ‘no’. If someone cheeses you off or pushes your buttons, avoid them going forward. If you feel cranky after a late night, go to bed earlier, etc. It’s a process of helping yourself to feel better.

            Anyway, I hope you start to feel less anxious. When you feel your emotions becoming negative, try to be aware of how you feel and then try to alter your thought in order to see things in a more relaxed, positive way. You’re not alone in how you feel and things can start to turn around 🙂

          24. Witch says:


            It’s okay you don’t need to be sorry.
            I was mentally prepared for the fact that she could be a narc because it’s a pattern in my family.
            She might not be but I can tell she doesn’t have high levels of emotional empathy. She had a stroke and is fragile and relatively harmless (we could say she can annoying)
            I believe she did spoil my mother materially though. She wasn’t born in England but she worked very hard, not wealthy but never claimed benefits/welfare and I saw from a photo that my mum was put in very nice clothes, given lots of gifts at Christmas. So my mum was a bit of a Meghan Markle in that respect. And I never saw her argue with my mum in front of me.
            My mum wasn’t trying to protect me from her, she just didn’t want me to be close to her out of envy and because it threatened her control. My grandmother was nice to me and favoured me, I wasn’t really at risk in her care.
            It was her son (my uncle) who used to bully me. (His dad was definitely a narc as he was a serial woman beater)

          25. Leigh says:

            @Witch, thank you for sharing a bit of your story. Its unfortunate, but its a pattern in my family too. The fact that she didn’t argue with your mother in front of you does show a degree of empathy, I think. I would imagine a narcissist wouldn’t care. Both my parents were narcs and they argued in front of my siblings and I all the time.

            I’m sorry to hear that she’s had a stroke. Maybe that’s what’s affecting her empathy. Your uncle’s father isn’t your grandfather? And if he was a serial woman beater does that mean your grandmother was beaten by him as well? I’m sorry to hear all that Witch. Narcissists suck! They really do.

          26. Witch says:

            @A Victor
            No worries I don’t get notifications either
            Thank you
            I hope you’re well xx

          27. Witch says:


            I know the stroke has made her depressed, she used to be very outgoing before but now she doesn’t laugh or smile like she used to.
            She may not have argued with my mum in front of me as facade management. Or she could be narcissistic and not a narc. My grandmother had my mum young when she was 17 and she left her when she was 4 to come to Europe for work. My grandmother claimed she couldn’t take my mum with her because my mother’s father put a legal order in place that she couldn’t take her out of the country and my grandmother would have found it difficult to find work with a child.
            Some of the things my mum has said about her mother indicates narcissism but because my mum is also a narc she may have exaggerated or lied about certain things.

            For example, my mum told me when she came to England she was all skin and bone as she hadn’t been fed properly.
            I asked my grandmother how my mother presented when she brought her over and she said she had head lice and a cut on her knee which looked infected so she took her to the doctors. I asked if she was under weight and she said no.
            There’s some things I will never know the real truth about and I’ve had to accept that. Also my mum’s childhood is not my problem anymore, which is why I got in touch my with grandmother in the first place because I stopped taking on my mother’s problems as if they were my own. If she felt her mother was a bad mother, that’s her problem, not mine.

            My uncles father isn’t my grandfather. (So he’s my half uncle as my mothers half brother, but I don’t like using that term. I have half sisters, but I just say they are my sisters)
            I never met my maternal grandfather and he is dead now.

            And yes my uncles and Aunty’s father was very abusive towards my grandmother and used to beat her, as I’m sure he did with all the women he was with (he has quite a lot of kids from different women.) I saw my mothers lack of empathy when she tried to be-friend this man as an adult and make him take her side when she was having beef with her siblings.
            Why would you want to befriend a man who battered your mum?
            I don’t care if my mum is a narc, I would never

          28. Leigh says:

            @Witch, I feel the same way as you with regards to using the word “half” brother or sister. I don’t use that term either. I have a brother that technically is a half brother too but I call him my brother.

            I apologize if it seems like I’m judging but it does seem a little bit like a red flag that your grandmother left your mother behind at 4 years old. I do understand her need to work though.

            I’m sorry your grandmother was battered by her husband. I agree with you that its a huge red flag that your mom befriended the man that battered her mother. Its not something I could do either and my mother is narc also.

          29. Contagious says:

            I always feel the pain. But… you categorize it. You could look at it as arrested development. You know he wants you, needs you, “loves” you but he acts out like a teen or a toddler. A broken child. It is almost always nothing to do with you often out of left field but their feeling of rejection whether valid or not or another misapplied or some internal or external trigger unrelated that makes them withdraw, rage, or be annoyed. Like with any broken child, you know they are in pain and the behavior is unacceptable…. But you feel the pain. It comes from pain. Internal pain. If you can feel their pain but understand it has nothing to do with you, you remain ok. HG would say remove yourself. Nothing you can do. Nothing to be fixed. Nothing can be done. Too late. But whether it is a vacuum of emptiness, which feels like a cold wind, a howl… a carefully plotted silence ( the worst), a feeling of being in a dessert without water, or a wave of hot fiery rage which feels like a gunshot wound just happening, it is pain. A snide put down, a criticism and attempt to harm verbally or psychologically is pain. Those feel like slices on your soul but only nicks. There is physical assault, that’s physical pain. A narc by definition inflicts pain but like a fiery ball it is pain that inflicts pain. When my children were little and someone bullied them or hurt them I would say happy people make others happy that person is not happy. It is simple for me as a contagion I know that person has pain, or is different from me. I know. My problem is that I want to hug the naughty child. My urge in feeling whatever pain he is experiencing or inflicting is to try to overcome it with love. And although they are often adults in age and the harm is great to greater kind, I feel the need for myself I guess to bring Light to Darkness to address it, or I need to retreat to nature to regroup. It’s cliche to the definition to contagion but it’s the truth. And you can’t stop the feeling or the reaction unless you go no contact to an individual. Problem is if you are a contagion, everyone you meet, even in an elevator you feel it. As a result, you are a magnet to others. Everyone tells you their problems…and even if they don’t. You feel it. Everywhere you go. I have been to 36 countries. It’s universal. I have not suffered famine, war ( although my father and son have), rape, torture, or massive disease or addiction. I know others who have. But pain inflicted on another by external events feels different then someone who had pain to start with in life. There is so much pain in this world, why my need for nature. But although I absorb it, I fight it. The only way I know how… kindness. I never regretted being kind to anyone no matter what they did to me. It’s the greatest weapon to counter “ pain.” I recommend it. Even if you go no contact and I have had to at times as narcs and others can be too destructive, do it with kindness. With love. That’s the only way to cope. Not an easy choice. Be a warrior.

          30. crowcatmk says:

            “Jordyguin says:
            October 5, 2022 at 20:39

            So I’m starting to guess that a Contagion is someone who is alike a CoD – a kind of its own – not finished Narcissist in a way but with a much larger/heavy felt empathy/pain than a normal Empath (and even a Super Empath)?

            Contagion does feel the pain of empaths and narcissists? Is the pain different by the way? Narcissists feel only the pain of their own creature. Empaths feel the pain of others and their own (creature?).

            Anakin Skywalker springs in to mind. Someone who wanted to do good but the pain transformed him and he became the opposite.

            There is not a loss of the self-esteem in the Contagion, to the degree as it is with the CoD is it correct?


            HG Tudor says:
            October 7, 2022 at 15:29



            1) Does your “correct” refer to the whole argument about the Contagion Empath presented by Jordyguin or just to its last point?

            2) Does the Contagion Empath have a creature?

          31. HG Tudor says:

            1. Last sentence.
            2. No.

          32. Jordyguin says:

            Copy that Crowcatmk, Bravo Zulu!⭐️⭐️⭐️❣️

            Thank you for clarifying🙏😇

            „I want to go home and rethink my analyses!“

            Ani a normal? (empathy only towards those in close relationships, Mom, Padme)
            Ani narcissistic? (yea possibly, I see how)
            Ani a Standard with Super and CoD percentage and twisted Martyr-Savior approach? (longevity of abuse with Palpatine.. But then the erosion of empathy towards so many.. Well he believed it was the right thing in order to save..)

        2. Witch says:

          Leaving your child is definitely a red flag. And traumatic for the child to be separated from their primary care giver.
          Although I’ve known other women and men who have left their children to migrate abroad for economic reasons so they could get a secure immigration status and housing in a different country before bringing their children over.
          It would be unwise to bring a child to a different country while being unemployed and homeless. So I see both sides.
          My grandmother did not re marry or have any other children before bringing my mother over. My mother was the only child until she was 15 years old

          1. Leigh says:

            @Witch, I agree it would be unwise to take a child out of a familiar environment and put them in one they don’t know at all. Especially another country where cultures can be very different. I can see why you’re not sure where she falls. Some of her actions could go either way.

      2. Enthralled says:

        Hi Contagious

        ((You become very aware. You know. Their pleas, charm, bullying, no longer is heard. It falls on deaf ears. Done. You see them clearly …. in time. Your gut screams. You just can’t tolerate it anymore so you break all ties.)))

        I can very much relate. Thought I might add my experience when my ex attempted to return for a brief time to destroy me completely. Only happened a few times but when my emotions become unbearable and I am feeling everything – them – me – others. It is almost like what I am feeling separates from my logical thought processes. On the outside, I am a bumbling mess, but a part remains detached and accesses the situation. Hard to explain.

        …I can be falling apart but that logical side can coldly plan the best course of action to escape or get some measure of justice. In the case of my boss, (Through the stress, tears and pain – all reactions she seemed to enjoy), I was able to manipulate via innocuous emails to gather hard proof of conversations and such. Whilst I did not come out and say I would take them to court (would have shown my hand), I did give many opportunities to change course.

        …Should have been a clean break with my ex – till he tried to emotionally destroy me. I did manipulate things so he could get everything he wanted – knowing full well it would be to his detriment (but since thinking about it with new eyes = a great source of fuel for him).

        I guess even empaths can have a darkness inside. A good person would have just walked away and sought no retribution. Usually, I do this = but not always.

        Did see the mention of an incomplete narc… hmm I would need fuel and I am a bit of a recluse…If it was just logic and no emotions – would that be more of a pure psychopath? But they are generally born not created. Don’t care about status and possessions either… = sorry just random thought processes.

        Like you I am very keen on HG’s analysis :)))

  9. jordyguin says:

    Thank you!!! This article is very relatable. Explains a lot to me now!

    🌟Congratulations on channels return!!! „They attempted“ to silence the source for truth being spoken out, but only reached the opposite🌊🌊..„With the Force, everything is connected and nothing is an accident.“

    A good day :))

  10. leelasfuelstinks says:

    My Patri Narc had indeed a hard time with me! 😂 Now I´m pretty much disengaged from, as he´s not a an iota interested in me anymore. 😂 I use to call up sometimes because of my mom who is not a narc but a Co-D. Anyways, this also means that I very probably may be carrier of the NPD gene/s. As the Co-D (mom) was on the way to narcissists but the development of NPD stopped, they must have the genetic upset for NPD. Patri Narc is a full blown NPD. I must be carrier! Really a Super CARRIER Empath 😂

  11. insidiousmarriagetoxicfuel says:

    In the midst of this very transition now! I am notably impressed by your accuracy ! You, HG, are remarkablely GIFTED. BRAVO!!!

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Thank you.

  12. Bibi says:

    What I thought was the Supernova was actually the Cliff Fight Back. (That I did with the Mid Ranger.) The scariest thing is that he is someone I had in my life for 7 yrs, yet I never met him in person, and yet he had complete hold on my emotions. Was thinking today that now he’s been out of my life longer than he was in it.

    The good thing to come from it is now knowing what to look for, not repeating my same patterns, and not allowing my emotions to run the show.

    I used to think he was an Elitist, but given you ranked Putin as a Somatic, I’d have to say he was more somatic than elitist. Somatic Middle Mid Ranger. Yuk.

    1. A Victor says:

      That’s what I had too, you’re right, yuk.

      I agree about changing patterns etc, very important.

  13. Jess says:


  14. Asp Emp says:

    Woo Hoo!! That MRN was fked by the time I was done !! (laughing)

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