A Letter to the Narcissist – No. 1

 

A LETTER TO THE NARCISSIST CORDELIA´S LETTER

I invited readers to pen the letter that they would like to send to the narcissist that they entangled with. Here is the letter which ‘Cordelia’ would like to send. Does it mirror your sentiments and experience at all? How do you think the narcissist would react to receiving this?

If you would like to write a letter to the narcissist you were ensnared by, send it to me at narcissist1909@gmail.com and I shall consider it for publication here.

“There’s really nothing I need to tell you. But there are a few questions that it would be fun to have the answers to. Please tell me: how does it feel to have been out-maneuvered?

 

I was one of two shelf IPSSes you kept at work. After I realized what you were, I shared that knowledge with the other.  I heard she had fallen from grace and you were already trying to destroy her reputation by lying and saying that she was stealing equipment. I warned her. Needless to say, she’s not talking to you anymore. You’ll never know for sure whether or not her informant was me. You didn’t know it was me who told her, did you?

 

Me, me, me. You seduced me. We had a little romance and you promised sex eventually but that last part never happened. My husband isn’t bothered that we had a brief fling because he had given me permission to have one. He and I opened up our relationship two years ago–don’t you remember mining me for that little detail? You started adding a romantic side to our seven year-long friendship as soon as you dragged that tidbit out of me. You later lied to me about having your wife’s consent. You also hid her pregnancy from me, and that was when I left. But this is where you think, again, that you still have power. Again you are wrong.

 

I have no need to tell your wife about what happened because I know her reaction will just give you the fuel you need. I know you got her pregnant as a way of binding her to you permanently. She financially can’t afford to leave and won’t want to raise another son in a single-parent household. It’s why you chose her, yes? Telling her about us will just drive her closer to you. I think you were counting on that. I won’t tell her.

 

It wouldn’t surprise me if you tell her, though (and blame it all on me). After all, you want a catfight. I know, honey, I know. It’s amazing how I know it all, isn’t it? How does it feel to know that I’m not falling for it? You’ll only get to have one woman screaming at you, though I know you wish it were two. But take heart. You know just how much you can abuse her emotionally and still keep her around. You almost figured it out with me. But knowledge does not equal intelligence. The fact that I escaped, and the way I escaped, proves to me that you are not as smart as I am.

Therein lies the denouement. During that tepid, one-sided relationship, you were stupid enough to try to physically force me to kiss you at the office. I refused because I don’t mix work and pleasure and I wasn’t that into you at the time. You have terrible bad breath and your desire to extract my tonsils using your tongue is rather inefficient and unromantic. After I ended it and found out what you were, I knew you would be back for more.

 

I let the company know about that coercive stunt you pulled. You attempted to force me to do something that I didn’t want to do and you did it on company time (I was off the clock; you weren’t!) That’s sexual intimidation, regardless of how involved we were. You thought it was funny at the time. I think it’s hilarious that HR and I have harassment paperwork ready for you if you so much as look at me again. Who’s laughing now? I would love to know: What was the expression on your face when you got the email from me informing you that you were never to so much as say hello to me at work again or you’d be faced with a harassment suit? You replied back, begging me to meet you to sort all of it out. Did your blood boil to read the word ‘no.’?

 

At the moment I have the last word but I know it won’t be the last word from you. It is the last one you’ll ever get from me. All I need to do to wound you is simply to do nothing. My dear, you were in the military. How is it that I became the master of strategy and you are the one who is “outflanked and outgunned”? Do tell. How does that make you feel?”

Cordelia

112 thoughts on “A Letter to the Narcissist – No. 1

  1. Joa says:

    I do not like this letter. Too many emotions.

    I don’t like myself, when I’m at this stage. It is not necessary.

    1. A Victor says:

      Hi Joa, I’ve had the same reaction to some of these, too much emotion, for me, I can’t handle it, it actually can make me feel nauseous. I do know it’s in the one I wrote also, it was getting rid of that emotion that helped me. So I understand why they are like this. It is hard to read though, for, as a person who struggles with emotions already. I know that’s not your issue, a struggle, at least I don’t think so. But I can relate in a way to your comment here. Many of them I can’t read. I’m trying…

  2. emparcissist says:

    What an am*zing piece of work. Cornelllia,you sure tell a lot for someone that has nothing to say:-) This should give him some fuel provided he’s a narcissist. Hope you didn’t post that.

  3. Asp Emp says:

    Referring to what Cordelia writes – she was one of two IPSS. If she did not sleep with him, she was NIPSS. Maybe the other one was also NIPSS too? A narcissist can have one IPPS, (in this case, the wife) while having no intimate (sex) with other women. Cordelia told the work colleague (other woman) about the guy in this case. But, she did not tell the guy’s wife.

    Cordelia’s husband. Did he develop health issues to the point of not being able to be intimate with his wife (hence the “permission” to go outside the marriage)? Has anyone else considered that? No.

    The guy Cordelia was “friends” with lied to her about his wife “giving” consent to go outside the marriage. If his wife found out about the affair would she have left him? Probably. He thought and gave the impression it was ok for him to fk around with other women and play on their emotions. His wife became pregnant, so Cordelia “left” him.

    Cordelia wrote that she does not mix work and pleasure. She refused him, not necessarily on the basis of him “rejecting” her (not necessarily blame-shifting, deflecting, deniability). She had involved HR and the guy, apparently, tried to talk to Cordelia about “sorting” out the “issue” (accusation of sexual harassment). HR may have considered Cordelia to be telling the truth because of how the other “NIPSS / IPSS” was treated at work as a result of the same guy’s behaviours.

    HG has said that some married empaths can be ensnared by a narcissist to have an affair. Some empaths may not actually act on it. Only because of a ‘disruption’ to their ET not being managed as effectively as it could have done, whether it is external stressors outside the marriage, the work place, there are many “arenas” where external stressors can cause changes in the management of the addiction to narcissism, including threat of war.

    I do not necessarily adopt the tunneled vision approach (ie applying hypocrisy, nor, contradictory, or deniability) when it comes to discussing, or, debating a subject. I have my own views on extra-marital affairs simply because I have never cheated on anyone and I do not agree with it.

  4. Five Count says:

    I couldn’t finish that letter. I stopped reading it. I could not relate to Cordelia’s narcissistic trait of infidelity. Nor her empathic savior complex (saving the co-worker who was also an IPSS, contemplating whether to save the wife or not). But what I disliked the most was how Cordelia expresses so much thought for people (women) who were not responsible for her relationship with the narcissist.

    She asks the narcissist: “How does it feel to have been out-maneuvered?”. This is rich (a lie) considering the fact that “she” was the appliance (she got used as the narcissist saw fit). “She” was seduced (she got played, fell for the narcissist’s facade). “She” was triangulated (she writes a lot more about this woman carrying this abuser’s child and what it means for the abuser than she does her own husband). Interestingly, her husband is only an appliance here — her justification to cheat (he consented, he was not bothered by it). The husband thus absolves Cordelia of any accountability and self-reflection.

    Is Cordelia an empath, a narcissist, or something else? Heck, if I care (which label she is)! She’s a married woman who seemingly wishes to remain married while having sex with other people (men, in this case). If so, all I see is this — hypocrite.

    She consents to sexual infidelity in her marriage — fine for them, I guess. But Cordelia, and only Cordelia, picked a narcissist (not an empath, not a normal, nor a narcissistic individual) for a sexual relationship. I think figuring out why and how to prevent it from happening again ought to be her focus. In my humble opinion, this letter should be burnt to ashes, then some good might come of it.

  5. Anna says:

    I get the impression she is projecting her own behaviour onto the person she is writing the letter to….It kind of sent a shiver down my spine.

  6. lickemtomorrow says:

    I wrote one of these letters and what I can remember about it is the overall sense of sadness that filled it. There was no gloating (I was devastated), no sense of superiority (he had brought me low), some questions remained. My most damning remark was simply that he would turn around to find me gone. That was my revenge.

    Asp Emp made a comment about writing two letters, with differing levels of emotional thinking (ET) attached to each, and the possibility that letters to the narcissist are likely to sound different depending on your stage of entanglement/escape.

    My letter now might sound more objective, but even initially it wasn’t ‘vitriolic’ so I doubt it would later become that way.

    Perhaps it is different types of empaths at different stages of their recovery that affects how a letter sounds.

    Now that Leigh has raised the question, I’m still left to wonder – how do we untangle the narcissists from the empaths, assuming some unaware narcissists consider themselves empaths or convince others of the same? These letters make interesting reading in that sense. Maybe that is why HG leaves it up to us to determine. How much have we learned? Do we believe everything we read? Is there room for questioning?

    1. NarcAngel says:

      Hi LET

      It’s hard to determine from one letter, or even meeting in person initially sometimes. There can be indicators, and they can be quite compelling in one direction or the other. That is why HG advises an observation of an aggregate of behaviours over a period of time. We are learning, but as with any learning there will be a curve and will we often get things wrong along the way. The main thing is to pay attention and to question (internally at the very least) to make a determination regarding someone who may have effect or influence on, or over us.

      1. NA, your comment makes me think of the female narcissist who was also part of my last romantic entanglement. I’ve mentioned her here before, but she had enormous cognitive empathy, to the point she was almost impossible to spot and I doubt many people have spotted her yet. I stepped away from that relationship as she continued to manipulate others around me, but made the mistake of confronting her on a couple of ‘dog whistles’ which I knew were intended for me. She liked to do that. No one else would have been aware, or perhaps cared, but she knew right where to put her barb. She was a lot like my mother in that sense. The sad (and frustrating) part is that I opened myself up to her as she came across every bit the empath in the initial circumstances of our meeting. It was probably about six months in, once the ‘golden period’ had come to an end, the cracks began to show. It was in that ‘sly’ way, once again reminding me of my mother, and in the first instance I was so taken aback I confronted her right away. She was enormously apologetic, and I was ever so forgiving, believing she meant it. A short respite period ensured. It didn’t take long to realise the devaluation was going to continue, and exacerbate, as she gathered other minions around her. Fortunately, one was eventually forced to come to the same conclusion after ending up on the end of her pitchfork and it was her who led me here as she tried to understand what had happened. Not specifically to HG, but to the notion of narcissism.

        I just want to concur – there is a time period attached to discernment with some people. It may also depend on our level of sensitivity, or the type of empath we are. I’ve mentioned here being entangled with a victim narcissist also. They come in all shapes and sizes (as HG teaches us).

    2. A Victor says:

      Hi LET, I had the same experience writing one of these. I will go back and write another when my ET is even lower and see if it feels the same. That was a good suggestion I think.

      1. lickemtomorrow says:

        Hi AV, I hadn’t thought of that until Asp Emp mentioned writing two letters, but it’s probably a good idea in terms of gauging our ET/LT. I might even try it myself.

        I was moving files on my computer yesterday and forgot I had also written one of these for my mother. Tossing up whether to send it to HG, but it wasn’t particularly vitriolic and, once again, an element of sadness must have engulfed me when I wrote it. Personally, I don’t think I would write that one any differently today. Likely because that relationship is more ‘historic’ and we’ve been in no contact since before I arrived here. There’s a good chance any emotional thinking had subsided substantially. Having said that, it really was the first instance where I understood my mother was actually a narcissist. Oh blessed relief! I finally had an answer to what had been puzzling me my whole life. That probably took a lot of the vitriol out of it, too. I was relieved <3

        1. A Victor says:

          Wow LET, I had not realized we had so much in common. Life long questions answered upon arriving here. And our mothers also. Is/was your dad also a narc?

          I also wrote a letter to my mother, having reread it this last few days, I would not change it. I can see where Asp’s idea could be helpful if such a letter was written in a state of high ET. Mine was written after I’d been here for a while and been in ANC with her for a while also.

          My mother is the only one I felt it was important to write to, perhaps because she is still in my life. But I think more because I think a lot of things started with her, from her, and her treatment of me. It was a relief to put it on HG’s shoulders, it literally felt like a burden was lifted and knowing he could handle it was a lot of the reason. It’s so heavy, most could not, I fear.

          1. lickemtomorrow says:

            AV, I like the way you express it as putting the burden on HG’s shoulders. Giving it to someone else who completely understands what the narcissist is capable of is definitely a relief. No therapist could completely understand the impact and lifelong consequences, as well as the actions, of the narcissist. Good riddance to that burden.

            I’ve questioned whether my father was a narcissist also. He died a long time ago and had an enormous impact on me, but not in the same way my mother had. It’s very hard to explain, but he utilised me in the manner of a victim narcissist where he called on my empathic nature, whereas my mother sought to bring me down in her envy.

            It’s a bit like being caught between a rock and a hard place. I was caught between trying to satisfy one while never being able to satisfy the other. The one I tried to satisfy could never be satisfied either, so there’s a dilemma for you! Narcissists can never be satisfied, either way. That’s what I have learnt. They will draw on you and draw on you in whatever manner possible, and in whatever proclivity they may have – victim, cerebral, somatic – and it’s the draining without satisfaction that tells the tale over the long term.

            I’m guessing you sent your letter to HG. I’m glad it helped. It probably helped me just to get mine in writing and out of my head. I can see many advantages to these letters to the narcissist.

          2. A Victor says:

            Hi LET,

            Your experience was similar in feeling to mine, I couldn’t make my dad happy, always afraid of losing his love, and my mom was just never happy, she sucked us dry. Even him. Almost like she sought to destroy us. Yes, trying to satisfy one, giving up on trying on the other.

            I did send my letter to HG. The sending helped even more than the writing, something about knowing someone else read it, even if he didn’t, it so helped.

          3. AV, I wasn’t afraid of losing my father’s love, I was afraid of him hurting us. What I did was to keep him happy and ensure our survival. What I experienced was fear, pure and simple. He played on that, and I was the one he relied on to ‘understand’ and ’empathise’ with him. He did not see me, he used me. I’m not sure he fully comprehended the monster that he was and how that impacted me. He wasn’t a monster all the time, but the fear was you never knew when the monster would come out. It was the unpredictability of it that unnerved me. I was constantly trying to make sure the monster did not appear.

            Fear is a great way to get people to jump through hoops to please you.

            I’m glad you were able to unburden yourself to HG and felt better for doing so. It really does help to get these thoughts out of our head.

          4. A Victor says:

            LET, I apologize, I did not mean to diminish your concerns with your father at all. I only meant similar in feeling as to the unpredictability of things with our fathers. I had the monster element with my mother, it was very consistent, so losing my dad’s love, fake as it was, was a very real threat to me though I did not fear for myself physically as far as he was concerned. The unpredictability was where I saw a possible similarity with your situation. I didn’t mean to offend or minimize, your fear was a much more real concern, I am sad for you for that.

          5. AV, please don’t apologise for your earlier comment, and there was no problem with it. Mine was more just to clarify my own experience and finally put some of that into words. Your comment actually helped me to define what I probably haven’t thought much about in a long time. These are the things that never get acknowledged when we are children, nor the impact they had on us. We just accept that was our lot and try not to think about it anymore. It’s when the pattern keeps repeating itself that we begin to wonder.

            I appreciate your comment was more about our efforts to keep our parents happy and why we do that. For you, it was because you needed to feel the love of at least one parent, and in a way that is no different to me. The way I felt my father’s love was by pleasing him, but the reason I was pleasing him was to keep the monster away. Sadly, there was no true love shared between me and either of my parent’s, not because I didn’t want there to be, but because neither of them were capable of it.

            I really wasn’t upset or offended by your comment and I just had to backtrack on one of mine on another thread, simply because rereading it I could see how it could taken the wrong way! It can be so easy to cause offense at times, but for the most part, it’s not intentional. I think some of our second guessing ourselves in that sense is that we’ve been forced to second guess ourselves all our lives – thinking of the triggering and triggered parent here. The ‘walking on eggshells’ syndrome can stay with us for a very long time.

            I wanted to virtually strangle my eldest daughter’s MIL yesterday after a visit with her and my daughter where there was an expectation that one should step very carefully and try not to put a foot wrong. This was a ‘jumping through hoops’ experience, and no matter how benign the comments or questions were on her part, I understood I was to jump through the hoops being laid out for me. There is still a monster in there, but a different kind to my father, much more like my mother. I got out as fast as I could. It wasn’t hard to sense the fury bubbling just below the surface.

            I believe she is a narcissist, her son thinks she is possibly on the autism spectrum, but he knows very little about narcissism and wants to put her somewhere that is more ‘comfortable’ for him, I believe. His sister has been diagnosed BPD, so he knows that personality disorders are a thing, but no one ever mentions narcissism. It’s a very hard subject to broach when people want to find more ‘benign’ diagnoses for the people close to them. It can also be very hard for people to accept their parent’s are narcissists. I know at his age that if someone had said that to me about my mother, I probably would have wanted to defend her or her actions, especially as narcissism carries such negative connotations.

            Anyway, AV, I appreciate your further explanation and the unpredictability is how they keep us on our toes. Thank heavens we have the chance to move past that now <3

          6. A Victor says:

            LET, thank you for your kind reply. I felt I had upset you, not you me. But I do appreciate the reply and I do understand.

          7. A Victor says:

            Oops, bumped send a little early. I wanted to say also that your experience with your daughter’s mil rings so true, it is such a huge adjustment to have a new little human in our lives that we love like we did our children and yet we have to share them, often with virtual strangers! And even worse when they’re narcs! I have not had that experience until this last one of mine was born, I am quite concerned about it for both the baby and my daughter. But unless she asks for help, I can’t do anything. So I just spend the time I can with them and enjoy them and love on them, then let it go afterward. I am so sad that our children have narcs in their lives but they have us too. We can help impact them for good.

          8. AV, I hope HG will bear with me in sending this reply.

            I may have confused others with the comment on my daughter’s MIL, but in this case it was my other daughter – the eldest. She is married now, but doesn’t have children yet, so I call her husband’s mother her MIL (it’s official), but the other daughter’s MIL is still ‘unofficial’ for now.

            The other daughter who has the new baby has the MIL who put the crying emoji’s all over a social media post acting like she hadn’t been invited to my daughter’s baby shower. She also didn’t bother with vaccination in time for the birth, but has now seen the new baby twice in a hurried manner. My daughter is more than happy with the distancing for now (and forever, I think). It’s not unexpected.

            The eldest daughter, who’s MIL I’ve also gotten to know and spent some time with while she and my son-in-law were travelling recently, has not even asked me about the baby. Classic narcissist, she is envious. She has an older son who had a baby with his partner a couple of years ago and they want very little to do with her, and want her to have little to do with them and their child. I’ve heard her speak resentfully of them, in fact all of her children, none of whom she has a close relationship with. I’m fairly certain she cannot stand the difference in the relationship I have with my children, and the fact I’m so involved as a granny. She is furious with her kids and that extends to resenting others who have what she doesn’t have. Envy, pure and simple.

            That’s just one more example of the reason why I’d be inclined to classify her as a narc, but there are many. In that sense, we have a double whammy with both in-laws and my eldest is much better at standing her ground, while the younger daughter accepts it like water off a duck’s back. I hate they my kids have to deal with narc nonsense as well but you’re right, we can impact our kids for good in the situation now that we are here.

            I’m sorry to hear that you also have those concerns with your daughter and new mother. I seem to remember it was the partner’s father you were most concerned about a few months ago, wondering if he was a narcissist. You weren’t sure about the partner, but I think were giving him the benefit of the doubt as you were only getting to know him. I know you daughter is living at a further distance from you than mine is living from me at the moment, so that limits your ability for contact also. It’s hard if you want to offer support, but lack the opportunity, though some new parent’s are entirely happy to go it on their own as they settle in with the new member of their family. I hope your contact is not limited by any narcissist in the picture and I’m sure she knows you are there if she needs you. All we can do is let them know we are available <3

    3. Leigh says:

      Hi LET, I didn’t write a letter but if I had, it would’ve been filled with sadness as well. I think as empaths we want to always see the good in people. That’s not always the right thing to do. Maybe we have to shift our thinking. As Mr. Tudor says, go to the evidence. That’s what I did here. I went to the evidence. Even if she’s not a narcissist, there were many narcissistic indicators in that letter. What’s important is to pay attention to the indicators and not make excuses for them. That’s how we get in trouble.

      1. lickemtomorrow says:

        Hi Leigh, we definitely need to shift our thinking and it’s not always easy to do. We are so open, trusting, loving as empaths and expect the same of others. That’s probably where the sadness comes from, I think. We put all our notions of goodness and empathy onto that other person and into our relationships, so it’s actually devastating to find those things have been misplaced. For some, that will lead to anger, and don’t get me wrong, I’ve expressed my anger here as well. I’ve also questioned whether I am the narcissist on occasion, and if we are questioning ourselves there’s a good chance we are not the narcissist.

        For myself, I’ll allow a certain amount of instinct dictate the answer, which is where the negative sense I experienced with this letter is probably what I’d rely on, and I’m glad you brought up your thoughts initially around that. That would lead me to taking a step back and assessing more thoroughly, which is where NA’s suggestion comes into play. I guess it’s not taking things at face value, which as empaths we often do.

        1. Leigh says:

          Hi LET, that’s what I did with this letter. I went with my instinct. I listened to my gut. Even if she’s not a narcissist, there were definitely narcissistic behaviors.

          I thought this was an incredible learning tool because it showed us not take things at face value and sometimes we need to dig deeper. I don’t know if she’s a narcissist or not but they were quite a few indicator as Mr. Tudor has confirmed. For me, it doesn’t matter if they’re a narcissist or not. If they are exhibiting narcissistic behaviors, I have the right to choose not to interact with them.

          By the way, there’s no way you’re a narcissist. Your empathy shines bright!

          1. lickemtomorrow says:

            Awww, Leigh, thank you <3

            You've got it in a nutshell again … we can assess and choose not to interact and that can be based on both our learning here and our natural instincts. Taking a step back just allows us more time, and if our initial assessment is wrong then it becomes a case of 'no harm, no foul' after erring on the side of caution. In that sense, it's all about empaths taking back their power and not being suckers to the people who would take advantage of us.

            Appreciate your way of explaining, Leigh, which helps me gather my thoughts also.

          2. Leigh says:

            Thank you LET. Not everyone appreciates my directness. For some it comes across as blunt. On another thread, TS used the word straight to describe me. I like that better, lol. I had a little bit of a lightbulb moment last night. As empaths, you see me as direct & straightforward. While the narcissist will use those traits against me and call me blunt. Thank you for reminding me how the narcissist will use our traits against us.

          3. lickemtomorrow says:

            Hi Leigh,

            I can see how the use of two different words – “direct” and “blunt” – can convey different meanings and force different emotions. It’s good that you can see the difference between them now so other can’t take advantage of your more direct approach by making you second guess it.

            “No back doors” is another expression I quite like when speaking about someone who is direct and not inclined to play games with others. “She has no back doors on her” lets you know she can be trusted and will also speak the truth despite your feelings. Direct also doesn’t have to mean rude. Some people will use ‘blunt’ to indicate ‘rude’ and that is their impression, I guess. Personally, I prefer people who are direct and who make it possible for you to be the same.

      2. A Victor says:

        My letter has a fair amount of sadness and also anger. Also some neutrality and… Revenge!! I never expected that but it’s there!

        1. Leigh says:

          Hi AV, your comment was food for thought. I guess it depends on which narc I’m writing to. If it was my parents, it would be pretty neutral. It would be the same for my ex-bestfriend. For workplace narc, at the time it happened, there would be some anger but mostly sadness. Now, I wouldn’t even bother writing him a letter. For my daughter, there would be a lot of sadness, sorrow, guilt and regret. For Mr. Tudor, there would be immense gratitude. For my narc husband, there would be anger, resentment and revenge. I hope one day I get to sit beside him on his death bed and tell him he’s nothing.

          When I responded to LET, I was thinking about the context of this particular letter. I wasn’t thinking about all the narcs in my life, just the one that was a similar situation to this letter. Truth be told, the thought of writing some of these letters brings up emotions that I’d rather just suppress.

          1. A Victor says:

            Hi Leigh, I get it about the emotions, I usually want to suppress those when they involve a narc, in any capacity. Usually I want to suppress them by not being around them, they are such pieces of shit.

            Your consideration of writing HG a letter to the narcissist was one I had not thought of…he may get inundated now with gratitude and thankfulness to him…from many of us!

          2. Leigh says:

            LOL! They really are pieces of shit!

            If Mr. Tudor does get inundated with letters of gratitude, it’ll be positive fuel for him. I can’t take the credit though, I’ve seen other letters to the narcissist that are letters of gratitude to Mr. Tudor.

          3. A Victor says:

            I have not seen those, or don’t remember anyway. I will watch for them.

    4. Asp Emp says:

      LET, thank you for the mention. I would not consider writing another letter to parental narcissist just to gauge my ET / LT now, compared to when I composed the original letter. I was quite rightfully angry at that time because I only realised that I was brought up by a narcissist a few weeks after joining KTN = more anger at that time. It was the last workplace narcissists that brought me to KTN.

      Good point to raise – how to tell the difference between narcissists and empaths? Valid point. However, I think when it comes to narcissistic people (not narcissist, not empath), this is where some people may think it’s an angry empath, or, it’s a narcissist. Again, it is about the consistency of behaviours over a long period of time, if there are ‘blips’ in the behaviours = either a) an empath with erosion of empathy, OR, maybe b) a narcissistic / narcissist ‘dropping’ their facade? Johnny Depp is narcissistic, not a narcissist, nor an empath.

      I am not questioning HG’s systems that he uses for EDC / TDC / NDC. The point I am making in this instance, is, there is no indication that Cordelia had an EDC carried out? There are some things Cordelia wrote that has people discussing her letter. Granted a narcissistic / narcissist may write a letter to a narcissist.

      Yes, I’d suggest that there is room for debate, healthy debate and see what perceptions put forward. Always good to read what you write 🙂

      1. lickemtomorrow says:

        AspEmp, you always give me food for thought, and I agree there is room for healthy debate. It’s a manner of learning where we question things, challenge ideas, express feelings that could lead to greater insight, both about ourselves and others. I’m very grateful that HG’s method of teaching allows for that. Sometimes he will provide the answers, other times he allows us to mull over the possibilities. It leaves a lot of room for growth, and acceptance, too. We’re not all in the same place at the same time, we don’t all have the same experiences. There’s a lot to learn. The Depp case is one instance where many, I think, hoped to find he was an empath, some were disappointed to find he was actually narcissistic, and I was actually frustrated to find he wasn’t a narcissist! There you go 🙂 We all have our reasons, but the learning is what matters, and for that we need an open mind xox

        1. Asp Emp says:

          LET, HG’s approach, in my view, is to offer people to utilise their minds to expand their thinking patterns to include analytical and lateral methods. The different perceptions he has written about offers examples of lateral thinking, and analytical thinking combined. I believe that sometimes the analytical and lateral way of looking at things can be learned, HG’s various perceptions is a resource that offers the tools to do so.

          I was never taught at school, or by parental narcissist, to understand the differences of analytical and lateral thinking, even though I naturally possessed them. I believe this is an area that was a threat to parental narcissist’s control because she would have seen these ‘skills’ in my father (not that she would have necessarily understood! 😉 ).

          As always, LET, thank you for your well though out comment 🙂 x

  7. Alexissmith2016 says:

    Exciting game last night HG!!!

    As my boys used to say when they were little if they’d scored more goals in the first half but lost overall…”we won the first half though” hahahah so…we drew the first half.
    I’m getting the hang of this ‘N thing’. Twist the thoughts in my head to make it fit.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      You lost. We are top. The master schooled the apprentice.

      1. Alexissmith2016 says:

        Hahaha naturally

  8. Hannah says:

    I feel like I spend so much time interpreting and interacting with such a strong demeanor, I get warped into it. I feel like i take on traits myself

  9. JB says:

    HG, is the offer for us to do this still on the table?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Yes.

      1. JB says:

        That’s great HG, thank you!

  10. Witch says:

    I like her 🙂

  11. Asp Emp says:

    Brilliant letter. Good to read.

  12. Leigh says:

    Mr. Tudor, Is the person writing this letter an empath? She almost sounds like a narcissist herself.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      That is for you to determine.

      1. Anna says:

        I do not believe that the person who wrote the letter is an empath.

        1. Dorette says:

          I think you have to keep in mind what the context is of the writing, namely a letter to the person who damaged your life. I wrote my letter yesterday and it turned out to be an explosion of anger, which I did not expect. It is not who I normally am, I hardly recognise myself. It starts with “To the main fuckface”. It ends with me walking the streets with a jet torch. I did not send it in, it is too embarassing. But then also, I do not think that I am an Empath, in HG’s framework, i am just a Normal. The exercise was very helpful though, for me, I learned a lot from the writing exercise.

          1. Rebecca says:

            Hi Dorette,

            I sent mine to HG, embarrassing or not, my feelings are my feelings and I’ll stand by how I feel. I call the LMRSOMATIC shithead most of the time, when talking about him here and I’m an empath with some Geyser in me. My emotions are strong and I can sound like a crazy woman, when I get good and pissed off….doesn’t make me a narc. When a person gets mistreated, a lot of times, the first reaction is anger, some retreat and cry. Either way, is how they react to hurt and pain. Me, I’m done taking it, I’m not a child anymore, I stare right back at them and smile.

          2. Leigh says:

            Hi Dorette, I have to chuckle because I call the narcs in my life fuckfaces also!

            I agree writing the letter can cause a lot of anger to come to the surface.

            The huge red flag for me was her statement about an open marriage and having permission to have a fling.

            If she’s an empath, why was it so easy for her to do that to her husband?

      2. Asp Emp says:

        The clue is in the “language” used here, there is no ‘narcspeak’ in the letter.

        1. Rebecca says:

          Hi Asp Emp, 🥰

          I agree with you, she’s not a narc, just an angry empath. Xx

          1. Asp Emp says:

            Hello Rebecca 🙂 Thank you. You should have seen my letter to the narcissist 😉 having said that, you can clearly see my ET in that. xx

        2. Rebecca says:

          Asp Emp,

          Did you send your letter to HG? I rewrote mine and I posted the old one a while ago. I’ll send the old one to HG too. Xx

          1. Asp Emp says:

            Rebecca, of course I sent mine in to HG 🙂 You could compare the two you wrote and measure the differences in your ET / LT. That is one point of the whole exercise of HG’s work existing 🙂

        3. Rebecca says:

          Hi Asp Emp,

          I didn’t think to compare the two letters I wrote, the old one and the new one. I can see the anger in both, the ET in both, not much difference, except I don’t have the strong pain in me now, that I had in the old letter. I’m glad the pain has ebbed away to the point where it’s not constantly there now and it rarely flares to life now. Progress is slow emotionally for me. It’s a positive small, or not. Xx

          1. Asp Emp says:

            Hello Rebecca, in regard to the emotion of anger, it is fair to suggest that it can ‘remain’ longer for some people because it can be ‘stronger’ in those who may have had a lot to endure in their life experiences. So, I can relate to what you’re saying here. Mine took longer to reduce in impact and length ie in an ET response “period”. I suppose it could be considered that the anger and pain within you (and in my case it was) are / were closely linked because of the life experiences. I am glad to read that your pain is / has reduced because it may indicate that your linked anger could be reducing too? 🙂

        4. Rebecca says:

          Asp Emp,

          I remember my pain being all I felt at first, for a while and then after that began to lessen in intensity, my anger flared up and took center stage and it’s now dancing around doing its thing…it’ll calm down eventually too, it’ll just take longer because my anger is usually a strong emotion for me. You’re probably right, my anger being linked to past trauma, being that I recall resenting my mother when I was too small to fight back, the anger grew for a while…probably why I exploded like I did on her. It needed to happen, me exploding on her, otherwise she wasn’t going to stop hitting me. I just have to work through the anger like I worked through the pain…small steps forward, one day at a time. Xx

          1. Asp Emp says:

            Rebecca, I understand. Yes, one day at a time 🙂

      3. Leigh says:

        Ok Mr. Tudor, I’ll take a shot at it.

        I know that I have to look at a range of behaviors over a sufficient time period in order to make a true determination. Since I can’t do that, I can’t determine that she’s a narcissist but she definitely has narcissistic behaviors.

        The first one that stood out to me was how mid marriage she decided to make it an open marriage. She changed the ideals of the marriage. Why? To me, anytime someone says they want an open marriage, it’s narc speak for, “I’m entitled and I’m going to have sex with other people.” Also, just because you have an open marriage, why do you have to share it. To me, that’s triangulation. She also said that the narc had to pull that information out of her. I call bullshit. She wanted him to know.

        She also says that she doesn’t mix work with pleasure. That’s contradictory. You’re having an office romance. If you didn’t mix work with pleasure, you wouldn’t be having an office romance.

        Another red flag is that they never had sex because he never took it to that level. I think he rejected her, which subsequently wounded her and so Cordelia retaliated.

        I know I’m not supposed to say narcissist but my gut is telling me narc.

        How’d I do Mr. Tudor?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          You are correct with regard to looking at a range of behaviours over a elongated time period, you have identified numerous indicators which support this person might be a narcissist.

          1. Anna says:

            Major red flag was the need for revenge.
            It kind of reminded me of the character Meredith Johnson from the 1994 film “Disclosure”

          2. Leigh says:

            I knew it! Thank you, Mr. Tudor!

        2. NarcAngel says:

          Hmm. I wonder if Cordelia still reads here.

      4. Rebecca says:

        She just sounds angry to me, something I can relate to feeling towards the narcissist.

        1. Leigh says:

          Hi Rebecca, I didn’t like that she changed the dynamic of her marriage to an open marriage. To me that sounds like narc speak and something Jada Pinkett Smith would say. I have permission to have an open marriage sounds like, “I’m so arrogant and entitled that not only am I going to have affairs with other people, I’m gonna tell you about it too.”

          I understand she’s angry at the narc at work but why tell her husband about it?

          1. Witch says:

            @Leigh
            I knew someone who opened up their relationship because it was the husband that was caught cheating and so the wife agreed to an open relationship where she could also date other people, instead of divorce or pretending like her husband didn’t have a roaming eye.
            When life gives you lemons, make lemonade as they say

          2. Leigh says:

            @Witch, from the letter, it sounded to me that she wanted to open the marriage, not her husband. She asked permission to have an office fling. I didn’t get the impression that it was the husband who suggested an open marriage. Why ask permission? It sounds like triangulation to me.

            Yes, I agree when life hands you lemons, you make lemonade. I don’t think that’s what she was doing here. I think the husband was the one who was making lemonade because he was the one handed lemons.

          3. Rebecca says:

            Hi Leigh,

            Yeah, the open marriage thing was one of the differences of our two stories. I don’t know what to call my relationship with MLSOMATIC, co habiting…not quite mended, not quite together…he said, he can’t make it on his own without me, financially I’m assuming he means, but he claims it’s emotional…I know better than that. I know I’m financially unable to make it on my own and I’m dreading what’s ahead. Anyway, went off topic, sorry….I was thinking maybe, they have an open marriage now, maybe they both decided to not be tied to each other, who knows, people decide lots of things differently in a relationship, before deciding to just end it.

          4. Leigh says:

            Hi Rebecca,
            I often want to give you a hug after I read your comments. I hope that’s ok to say. I keep hoping for you that you find a way out.

            I guess that could happen that they both agree to an open marriage and then just co-habitat. I would imagine that’s not very healthy though and at some point that would stop working as well.

          5. Witch says:

            @Leigh
            She says “My husband isn’t bothered that we had a brief fling because he had given me permission to have one. He and I opened up our relationship two years ago–don’t you remember mining me for that little detail?”

            I’m guessing the relationship was already an open one prior to the romantic affair.
            She doesn’t say who instigated the idea of an open relationship, only that her husband doesn’t care about this fling because they already agreed to having an open relationship. At least that’s how I’ve interpreted it.
            Is it possible that 2 non-narcs could agree to having an open relationship? Maybe?
            There’s couples that have 3somes and don’t consider it cheating because they are doing it together

          6. Leigh says:

            Hi Witch,
            The open marriage was just the first of many indicators to me. I’ll agree that her marriage may have been open before the brief fling. I have lots of other questions though.

            Why does she need to ask permission?

            Why is she so bothered by a “brief fling”? Why get so angry at someone you didn’t even have sex with? If this is just an office fling like she contends than why is she so angry?

            Why does she say she doesn’t mix work with pleasure when clearly she does because she’s having an office fling?

            She blames him for dragging this tidbit from her. How did he do that? She chose to share that information.

            She has smeared him to upper management. She smeared him to the new office fling.

            There are so many others as well.

            I honestly believe she’s a narc and he rejected her and subsequently that wounded her and so she’s retaliated.

    2. I have to admit, I had a strangely negative reaction to this letter when I read it also.

    3. A Victor says:

      Wow Leigh, great question. This is a good up for me, I see why you’re asking, my ex had affairs with narcs on occasion. But I also see where this person could’ve been an ensnared empath with eroded empathy. I am curious to see what others might say. Thanks for asking this question.

      1. Just a follow up on my initial response and also Leigh’s query.

        I get a real sense of superiority from this ’empath’, and it feels to me like she is revelling in that. “Outflanked”, “Outgunned”, she is the “master of strategy” … feeling superior to others is the narcissist’s domain. Calling him “stupid” is another indication of that for me.

        Another element of her letter is the mention of her ‘open relationship’ with her husband. Sounds like a good opportunity for triangulation, even though he has given her ‘permission’. Not many empaths would lean into that option without reservations. She doesn’t seem bothered by that, and the fact her husband could be sleeping around as well (though that isn’t mentioned). Sounds a little detached to me, or lacking in emotional empathy.

        There are probably more hints in her letter re: her status, but I’m not inclined to think empath at this moment in time.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Logical observations.

          1. lickemtomorrow says:

            Thank you, HG.

        2. Leigh says:

          Hi LET, I feel exactly the same way I as you do about the open marriage. Another red flag for me was her contradictory statement that she doesn’t mix work with pleasure. If she doesn’t mix work with pleasure than why did she have an office fling? Isn’t that mixing work and pleasure?

          1. Haha Leigh, we posted our comments around the same time and we’re on the same trajectory. She kind of slips the open marriage thing in there as if it’s no big deal. You could miss it, or assume because this is an ’empath’ there’s no need to look below the surface. Many narcissists will present themselves as empaths initially. Learnt that one the hard way.

            Good point about the contradictory statement, which shows an element of not accepting responsibility for her actions, rewriting of history maybe?

            She also smeared him to another worker wiping out her competition (they no longer talk to him), but heralds herself as the saviour in that instance (he accused her of stealing – allegedly), and has now accused him of sexual harrassment (further smearing to higher ups/management).

            I could pick this letter apart all day, but on the surface it seems like an angry empath who is getting her dues. I think we enjoin our emotional thinking with theirs (the letter writers) as opposed to our empathy, if I could put it that way. We can be emotionally invested in these empaths getting justice while the narcissist gets payback. A justice trait may draw us out in that regard and, if this is a narcissist, be corrupted by them.

            HG hasn’t told us yet, so maybe we will never know.

          2. Leigh says:

            LET, I know. I can pick it apart too. Another piece that stuck out for me was when she was talking about her open marriage and said to the office fling guy “you dragged that tidbit out of me”. That’s blameshifting. How does someone drag words out of someone else’s mouth. People don’t share what they don’t want to share.

            I like Jasmin’s synopsis too. That “me, me, me” was very haughty.

            I hope Mr. Tudor tells us soon!

        3. Witch says:

          @lickemtomorrow
          Empaths can have a strong infidelity trait and a weak jealousy trait.
          She does appear to care about the fact that he lied about his wife knowing and giving permission.
          Also if I have interpreted this correctly, they never ended up having sex.

          1. Leigh says:

            @Witch, Empaths can have a strong infidelity trait and a weak jealousy trait. LOL! That would be me! About 5 years ago, I started an 18 month office affair which is what brought me to narcsite. Also, if my narc husband cheated on me, I would be ecstatic! I wouldn’t be jealous at all and it would be the best day ever! But I wouldn’t open our marriage, either. I would file for divorce and run. Also, never once did I consider sharing my office affair with my husband.

            I interpreted it the same way as you that they never had sex. So why the heck is she so angry? I think she’s angry because he turned her down and went for the other coworker and now she’s retaliating.

          2. Hi Witch,

            I think you are right and they never ended up having sex. Maybe she was disappointed? Felt jilted? He’d led her along and didn’t come up with the goods in the end. Maybe he ignited her fury. That thought just popped into my head, but I see what you’re getting at. While claiming an open marriage, she hasn’t really acted on it in this instance. I also hear you on the narcissistic traits of infidelity and jealousy, one possibly being strong and the other weak. I hadn’t factored those in so, once again, could err more on the side of empathic. Just not sure why I had a negative reaction to the letter when others are often just as damning. If I read between the lines, I can see how a negative response is possible, though on first reading and accepting she is an empath, she does seem like an empath who’s just had enough.

            I wasn’t sure about the wife, and if she was just holding that as a sword over his head (threat) which ultimately continues to give her an element of control in the situation. She sounds empathic in withholding, but is she?

            Never ending questions for me on this one.

          3. NarcAngel says:

            Hi Leigh.

            It struck me that in your comment to Witch you offered that if your narc husband cheated you would file for divorce and run, and I’m curious as to why you feel that you would be able to achieve that under that circumstance as opposed to now.

          4. Leigh says:

            Hi NA,
            I knew someone would ask that question. I can’t say for absolute certainty that I would leave. But, I truly believe that’s where I would draw the line. My pride is high and I feel like that kind of betrayal would force my hand. Plus that would give me some more power in divorce proceedings. Currently, since he makes no money, I’ll probably have to pay him maintenance. That irritates me beyond belief. If he cheats, I may have a bargaining tool.

            Also, its not that I don’t want to leave now. I do. I’m just saving as much as I can so that when I leave & I can quit my job too. The goal is to move far enough away and find a new job so that he can never find me.

          5. Witch says:

            @lickem
            I do see where it’s naive as hell to even believe a man who says his wife has given him permission 🤣
            I wouldn’t believe it unless I heard it from her.
            And maybe that’s part of why she’s so angry…she trusted his word.

            I have a sister who’s narcissistic but not a narc and she would hold a grudge against a guy who lied to her even if they didn’t sleep together… she would totally hate his guts

          6. Witch says:

            @Leigh
            I’ll have to check my trait detector again, but I believe I had a lower jealousy trait and higher infidelity trait.
            My anger would probably more so be towards the hypocrisy of it. The expectation that I should stay faithful while they don’t have to.
            I suggested to a narc ex to have an open relationship because he had a roaming eye and I thought “how could I make this work for me?” Or both of us.. so I asked if he would agree to be open and he said no he couldn’t handle that. Then he told me later on that he went on a date with another woman and it absolutely pissed me off that I was honest and he wasn’t.

          7. Leigh says:

            @Witch, what you explain here makes sense to me. I would be angry in that exact situation as well. You were in a committed relationship with this man and you wanted to try to make it work so you suggest an open relationship. Then he says no and does it anyway. That would infuriate me too.

            Cordelia isn’t angry at her husband though. She’s angry at the guy she had an office fling with. It just make no sense that she’s this angry over a fling.

          8. NarcAngel says:

            Leigh
            I have long found it puzzling that with all the heinous things that narcissists do, that their infidelity is often given as the final straw for their partners in leaving. The feeling of having the upper hand (by the empath) in that situation a false sense, because narcissists do not do accountability or feel guilt or remorse. It will not make things “easier” to leave as is often believed. People will often cite their line in the sand, but lines are often just redrawn to accommodate the discomfort at having to take action.

            These thoughts are not specific to your situation Leigh, but I thank you for your response, and for attempting to shed some light by giving your own personal reasons to the question raised by your statement.

          9. Leigh says:

            Hi NA, I thought about this some more last night. Its very possible I wouldn’t leave. Not because I love him or because I want a relationship with him, because I don’t. He keeps saying to me that I don’t show him any love and I shrug my shoulders and walk away. My whole life is intertwined with him. If I leave, I lose half of everything. Half is a lot. I’m going to say something very unempathetic. It would be much easier if he shuffled off this mortal coil. Then I don’t lose anything. It irritates me beyond belief that I have to lose half to this man. My hard earned money has to go to him. If he had an affair, at least he’d stop bothering me.

          10. Leigh says:

            NA, the word heinous is subjective. I often think my entanglement is a cake walk compared to what other IPPS’s have endured. My narc husband is a victim narcissist. I don’t suffer on the same level as other targets do. Like you, I don’t like the word victim. I’m no victim. I was a target. The biggest issue for me is that I don’t have a true partner in life. There’s no physical abuse. There’s some verbal abuse but I let that roll off my back. My entanglement is more draining than abusive and its certainly not heinous.

            I do know that narcissists don’t do accountability. If he were to have an affair or abuse me physically, it wouldn’t necessarily give me the upper hand but it would be definitive proof that he is the monster that I suggest.

          11. Witch says:

            @narcangel
            I agree, and in my view there are worse things you can do to someone then have sex with someone else

          12. Joa says:

            I don’t have the trait of infidelity. I am very faithful and loyal. I don’t reveal. I won’t start a new one until I finish the old one. I need a clear boundary. From to. End. Beginning.

            But I have a very strong jealousy trait. Like my grandma. Like my sister.
            Many funny (slightly embarrassing) stories with our participation 😀

            But even so, I agree that it’s not the worst thing when someone cheats and has sex (sex itself) with someone else. Sad. However, it can even be “cheering”.

            For me, the scariest thing would be if anyone had audacity not sleep with me, when I want to, ha ha ha 😀
            Ah, madness would unleash! 😀 Hell on earth! 😀 And plans of retaliation and revenge would follow me like long strands of mold and it would be difficult for me to stop it.

            Fortunately, it never happened. Phew. But the truth is that I would never get into a precarious situation. I can smell these things a mile away.

      2. Jasmin (SOTF) says:

        I have to agree with Leigh and LET. These are some my observations:

        1.”There’s really nothing I need to tell you” – dismissivness, contradiction, use of absolutes.

        2.”Please tell me: how does it feel to have been out-maneuvered?” – Grandiosity, provocation.
        I also see that she is asking “how does it feel”. Like she’s asking – Do I cause you an emotional reaction? = I’m looking for fuel.

        3. “After I realized what you were, I shared that knowledge with the other.” – Potentially smearing.

        4. “Needless to say, she’s not talking to you anymore.” Contradiction, provocation.

        5. “You’ll never know for sure whether or not her informant was me”. – Use of absolutes (never).

        6. “You didn’t know it was me who told her, did you?” – Superiority and contradiction as she stated “You’ll never know” just before.

        7. “Me, me, me. You seduced me”. – Self-absortion.

        8. “We had a little romance” – Arrogance, provocation. The word little is used as to say – Our relationship was never important to me. You were never important to me.

        9. “My husband isn’t bothered” – Potential lie, speaking for someone else.

        10. “He and I opened up our relationship two years ago–don’t you remember mining me for that little detail? – Potential lie, (I don’t remember the name of the manipulation but to open up a relationship isn’t a ‘little detail’)

        I’m not even half through and I could continue..

        The letter is full of contradiction, arrogance and provocation.

        1. Hi Jasmin, ‘grandiosity’ is the word I should have used in place of ‘superiority’, which is a preferable term when it comes to the narcissist. Arrogance is another word you used which pretty much covers it as well. There are subtle differences from my perspective in approach, and these words to me indicate how those subtleties present themselves. Interesting breakdown of her words and the letter, which does seem to indicate a number of contradictions.

          1. Jasmin (SOTF) says:

            Thank you LET,

            Just to make sure I understand you correctly.
            Do you mean grandiosity is above superiority, just as fury is above anger?

          2. lickemtomorrow says:

            Hi Jasmin,

            I do admit my comment was rather confusing!

            I used the word ‘superiority’ in my comment and realised when I saw your breakdown of the letter that the narcissist is most often referred to as ‘grandiose’, so just a subtle difference in the use of words rather than their meaning from my perspective. Grandiosity I tend to see as pomposity, without necessarily having anything to back it up; superiority I see as someone who has something to back it up while obviously looking down on others. Not a dictionary definition, just my interpretation.

            So, no, I don’t see one above the other, and there is no real definable difference according to the dictionary. HG defining the difference between anger and fury was an ‘aha’ moment for me. I believe it’s more about the intensity of the feeling or emotion. It may be possible to grade them, but my sense is that’s not the most important thing. Knowing the difference is more important, and that way understanding what you have been subject to, and why it is important to get out.

            Once again, I enjoyed reading your breakdown of the letter.

          3. Jasmin (SOTF) says:

            Hi LET,

            Sorry for my late response.

            Cambridge dictionary on superiority:

            “the fact that one person or thing is better, stronger, etc than other.”

            and,

            “an unpleasant way of behaving that a person has when they think they are better than other people”

            The word grandiosity weren’t to be found in the Cambridge dictionary (just grandiose) but American Psychological Associations (APA) dictionary defines:

            “an exaggerated sense of one’s greatness, importance, or ability.”

            I do pick up on the subtle difference you’ve mentioned. Even according to the dictionary. 😉 Thank you for taking the time to pointing this out!

            With regard to the word superiority I understand it as it doesn’t always include looking down on others. I think one can recognise “the fact that one person or thing is better, stronger, etc than other” without being arrogant about it.

            We can’t know about Cordelia as we need to look at a pattern of behaviour over a sustained period of time, but if I meet someone new and get that number of indicators I’m not willing to give them the time to prove me they’re not.

          4. Anna says:

            @ Jasmin (SOTF)

            “Cambridge dictionary on superiority:

            “the fact that one person or thing is better, stronger, etc than other.”

            and,

            “an unpleasant way of behaving that a person has when they think they are better than other people”

            The word grandiosity weren’t to be found in the Cambridge dictionary (just grandiose) but American Psychological Associations (APA) dictionary defines:

            “an exaggerated sense of one’s greatness, importance, or ability.”

            This is one thing that drives me absolutely nuts with narcissists. This grandiose behavior. They treat others with utter contempt. Literally raising their noses in the air when they speak to you. I hate it. My partner does it. It makes my blood boil. When someone does this to me I always try to find away to make them fall of their high horse. They disgust me. I believe all humans beings are equal. I maybe a misanthropist but I dislike myself just as much. This is what I find repulsive about narcissists. Maybe living with one for over 20 years does this to you. I have nerves of steel. Had to to be able to overcome his petty games.

            Worse is what HG says is absolutely correct, they manipulate everyone into thinking they are wonderful and you are crazy or the bad one. It is appalling. Just glad I found this site to help me deal with it and understand it more. I know I have to leave and then maybe the healing process can begin, sadly until then I will be “comfortably numb” in order to protect myself.

          5. Jasmin (SOTF) says:

            Hi Anna,

            I agree that rampant grandiose behaviour is very annoying. After finding my way here I struggle to see all humans as equal.

            I’m glad you found your way here. Are you planning escape?

    4. Isabelle says:

      Hi Leigh,
      I can see what you mean, but she might be a super empath, and a very angry one at that! Or a normal who is angry, too.
      Open marriage? No, this doesn’t sound very empathic at all. Calling the narc stupid and feeling smarter? Not incompatible with being an empath, I don’t think.
      If it is the Cordelia who posted here a while ago, she didn’ come across as a narcissist.

      1. Leigh says:

        Hi Isabelle, maybe she’s an angry super empath. But why get so angry when you haven’t even had sex with this person?

        1. Isabelle says:

          Hi Leigh,
          That’s funny, I assumed she had had sex with him when I read the letter, because she speaks of an open marriage. But you are right, not certain at all that she did.

          She may be angry because she might have been smitten or more: he chased her, they kissed, had a fling (in fact I thought “fling” implied sex), and the anger might be due to her realisation that she (almost?) fell for an illusion. He lied to her too, which goes with the general manipulation she received from him.
          I know I can get really angry when I realise I’ve been lied to. I hate lies (when their aim is to obtain something from me). I hate the scorn that lying in that sense implies. Lying in order to get something from someone equals seeing that someone as an object that’s just there to meet your needs, not as an equal as a human being. And that is what I cannot abide.

          1. NarcAngel says:

            In offering a lie, the liar has already assumed lesser intelligence and inferiority in the the recipient. Whether the lie is addressed by the recipient matters not. It is the liar’s assessment and assumption of the recipient’s willingness to accept the lie that I find repugnant and which colours future interaction. Ironically, the liars that feel themselves most successful often fall victim to their own assumptions when we choose not to address the lie. They’re stupid. We know it. They don’t.

          2. Leigh says:

            Hi Isabelle, I think as empaths, we try to see the good in people. This letter just was filled with contradictions for me. Even if she’s not a narcissist, there are a lot of narcissistic behaviors.

          3. A Victor says:

            Hi Isabelle, I had thought the same also upon reading the letter, that they had a sexual affair. Interesting conversation here about this letter. I am glad for the response from HG to Leigh about seeing many indicators pointing toward narcissism, I had assumed all these letters were written by Empaths, not necessarily so. That’s a valuable piece, once again. I must remember, cannot assume anything.

        2. Rebecca says:

          Hi Leigh,

          I’m angry with LMRSOMATIC and we didn’t have sex, but I’m still angry about being lied to, my emotions being played with, the future faking, his bullshit words, him smirking at me when I was hurting, him laughing at me when I was hurting, the mind games, the threats, the rumors he started, the triangulation with his “psycho wife” , the lies that she wanted to cut my face, the lies that management wanted to get rid of me, the lies that he loved me, the lies he was being abused by his wife, the lies of him being the victim, the lies that he was honest with me and the only truth was that his wife is a convicted felon with victim crimes and assault records, so maybe she is a narc too and maybe there’s some truth to his lies about being hit by her. Who knows, I can’t trust what he says anymore and at this point, it doesn’t matter to me. The trust is gone,after that, what’s the point of any relationship??

          1. Leigh says:

            Hi Rebecca. I understand why you’re angry. You trusted lmrsomatic. You obviously had feelings for him as well and because of that he was able to abuse that trust.

            Cordeilia repeatedly says that it was a “fling”. Why get so upset over a fling?

            I had an office affair. He destroyed me. I felt like I was pushed off a cliff, hit by a train and run over by a tractor trailer. I would never describe it as a fling. He would often call it a situation. There was one other word he would use as well but I can’t remember it now. It would piss me off because he would be minimizing what was happening between us. Of course, now I know he was a narc but when it was happening, it really hurt.

            If its just a fling for Cordelia, why get so upset?

            I don’t believe it was just a fling for you either and that’s why it hurt you as much as it did.

          2. Leigh says:

            Hi Rebecca, I remember the word workplace narc would use. He would use the word “casual”. It would infuriate me. I would want to throat punch him. It wasn’t causal for me and he knew it. With that said, I knew i couldn’t have a real relationship with him but my feelings for him were not casual at all. I adored him. He lit a fire in my belly. There’s no way I would have risked hurting my family for casual. He made me feel things I had never felt before.

            So now I want to bring it back to Cordelia. This letter she wrote is anonymous so why not be honest in the letter. If it’s just a fling, why is she so angry? If its not a fling and he really meant something to her, why not just tell the truth?

    5. Rebecca says:

      Hi Leigh,

      Thanks for your care and concern. I’m ok and just taking it day by day. Like you, I’m lived with a narc for a while and I’m used to it. It’s almost like breathing and I’m not being abused severely. I’m like the frog in the boiling water, I’ve been in it for so long that I don’t even notice I’m being boiled alive. Now that I’m aware of the temperature, which plan do I follow? Which is the best outcome? And then when is the best opportunity? Decisions, decisions that have to be made, so I can get off this damn fence. Write out a list of pros and cons and decide from the list , which is the better choice and then discuss those choices with HG.

      1. Leigh says:

        Hi Rebecca, yes, the proverbial frog in boiling water. I know what you mean. One days we’ll both be free.

  13. Rebecca says:

    HG,

    I have to say, except for a few minor details, this sounds like a letter I could have written to LMRSOMATIC, aka shithead for how I see him now. It’s amazing to me, that our stories are so similar, even down to the whole HR bit. It felt great to do the HR thing, I felt both justified and protected. It also let him know, at last, how I feel about him. Hate him? No ..Does a tiger hate the dung beetle? The tiger doesn’t even notice the dung beetle and that’s what he is, a dung beetle…rolling his dung…to his next victim. Xx

    I’ll show you my letter to the dung beetle. I hope you post it. 😁❤️❤️

  14. dave w says:

    Yes I suppose there would be wounding to the narcissist, but the actual amount and damage would be dependent on the type/level of the nacissist. Juding from the content, this one was not particularly skilled or meticulous. Still sooner than later the narcissim intervenes to limit the damage and restore and replace the characters in the play. Personally I would not bother to write, or discuss anything in any fashion- a breech of No Contact. In the long run closure and satisfaction or not to be gotten except by one’s own growth

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