I didn’t ask for this you know. I know you did not either but for once let’s not make this about you and let’s talk about me, yes? I never asked to be created so that each and every day I must gather the fuel that is necessary for my existence. Yes, I must eat, I must drink water and I must breathe the air, just as you do, but for me I have another staple requirement of daily living. I must have fuel. Did you choose to always needs food and water? No, you did not. Neither did I. I did not choose to require this fuel either but without it I will cease to exist. What I have created in order to survive in this world will come toppling down and that will be the end of me. How far would you go to eat? At first it is simple enough is it not? You go to the grocery store or you order online from the supermarket and acquire the ingredients to make a meal or receive a pre-cooked one. You chop, you peel, you mash and you stir and you make that meal. A hundred thousand different recipes to choose from. Instead you may remove the packaging, pierce the cling film and pop it in the over or the microwave. Either way you have food, ready to eat and to sustain you. But what if you had no money to acquire this food, how would you quell the rumblings in your stomach? Perhaps you might ask to be given food from neighbours, from food banks or left overs at supermarkets. It is demeaning but you need to eat don’t you, so what does a little pride matter so long as your stomach is filled? However, what if that charity ends? What if the benevolence of friends and neighbours dries up? What would you do then? What if there are no friends and no neighbours? Would you look to survive on berries you find by the roadside, drink the water from a stream? Would that sustain you for long or would you tire of that? Would you scavenge through the bins outside a supermarket for food that has been thrown out but is perfectly edible? Is that stealing? Perhaps not. Would you cope with the stares of pity and disdain from those who saw you surfing a dumpster?
Would you steal from the shops in order to quell the hunger pangs? Snatch a loaf from a bakery, sneak into a house and steal that cooling pie or rifle through the cupboards in order to find something to eat. What if there is no edible food in the dumpster, would you remove the mould and eat what you find, risking illness? What if the supermarkets ran out of food and there was nowhere to steal it from? Would you scavenge from the orchards until that fruit ran out? Would you catch fish or hunt a lamb or grab a chicken in order to cook and eat it over an open fire? What if the usual sources of meat began to vanish, having fallen prey to starving wild animals following the collapse of civilisation, what then? Would you try new sources? Would you, driven by hunger hunt down and eat a sparrow or a robin? How about an owl? Seagull? Would you slaughter a fox in order to eat its meat? Where would you stop? Would you eat another human being in order to survive? When needs must where would you draw the line? How far would you go to feed yourself and your loved ones? Begging, growing you own, stealing, savagery, cannibalism? Do you have a limit or when the chips are down and your stomach is knotted with the agony of starvation would there be no limit? How far would you go? Would you fight another person for a packet of rice? Beat someone up in order to steal their hoard of windfalls? Would you consider their loss of their food source and their injuries an acceptable consequence of your own necessary survival? Would this become collateral damage in the pursuit of survival? Abhorrent as it may sound, I should imagine, when the need really arises, that you would go beyond the unpalatable in order to survive.
Now replace food with the need for fuel and you will understand that I have no choice other than to gather this fuel from different sources and in different ways throughout the course of each day. The consequences which arise may seem regrettable to you but they are purely the result of this need for me to gain fuel. I did not ask to have to do this, but the way I have been created makes it so. In the same way that you would fight to ensure your own survival, rather than curling up and dying in a hole, so must I. Does that make me what would be regarded as a bad person for just doing what I need to in order to exist? I suggest that it does not. I know that what I do has consequences for others. I am not blind nor am I a fool. I understand fully the devastation that I cause as I tear through someone else’s life like a whirlwind, sucking everything in, hurling it about and then discarding it broken and shattered. I have heard the complaints, the stories, the recollections and the accounts. I have heard the cries of dismay, the wails of misery, the screams of terror and the slow sobs of pain. I know what is caused by my actions but what choice do I have? I do not set out to achieve these things but they must always arise as a consequence of what I must do.
I feel no guilt nor remorse. I am devoid of those emotions. Another consequence of the way I have been created. I feel no shame in these actions, no pity for those who suffer from my behaviours and no sense of empathy for those who are remorselessly cut down by my machinations. I am not burdened by such emotions so I do not toss and turn at night, I do not have my sleep peppered by nightmares of torment, I do not sit in anguish and seek absolution for everything I have done and everything that I am to do. Those concepts are not applicable to me. What I do is invite you to understand me. I want you to understand what I am, what I must do and what arises from this and if you were in my shoes then you would do the same. This does not make me a bad person does it? I am a good man who is having to do a bad job. Yes?
“It’s a fun scenario to consider isn’t it?” — Very fun.
“There might be less need for an IPPS at all on a desert island. If there was no IPPS but rather proximate secondary sources, there would be less risk of stale fuel.” — The IPPS has a number of residual benefits beyond sex, proximity and more potent fuel, higher tolerance for negative behaviors…and I think the need for negative fuel would arise…to say nothing of if the malice comes on. I feel like there would still be prime aims necessitating an IPPS. I think it likely that there would be. And several DLSs.
“How would other males view HG working his way through the female population?!” — If HG charms all the women (not necessarily in a sexual way, but I could see him doing helpful things to keep them on side with him)…what are the men going to do about it without angering the women? And I don’t think he would alienate all the men. He needs them to dig latrines and such…as if he would do such dirty work…
“How would the physical need for intimacy rank against a safer non intimate fuel supply that doesn’t turn stale?” — Would he need to be around them more because potency would be reduced? And being around them more leads to increased risk of fuel becoming stale. Sex is pretty much the most potent fuel there is, from what I understand. I feel like based on what I know of him, he would not readily give it up.
“Yes, I imagined a representative sample of the population on the desert island. I didn’t go as detailed as to narc or empath school and cadres but you’re right in that this would likely impact how HG was viewed.” — HG has top-notch facade management. I think he would be seen and thought well of by the majority…if he’s never publicly caught and manipulates the empath/his haters into losing their cool with him publicly after he has set a trap and captured a wild pig that was devouring pineapple fields and then made sure there was a public pork rotisserie style feast…what’s everyone to think?
“I think knowledge of narcissism would be less relevant on the island.” — I disagree. If just one empath on the island had benefited from the blog/YouTube channel(s)/books/consultations…and they recognized HG (because they are top of the class/star pupil)…what would they do? Traitorously turn on HG who did so much good for them…or become his biggest defender…could that empath truly encourage abandoning HG to a fuel free existence? I don’t think they would. I feel like the consequences for the empath and the community would be bad…far worse than letting him stay and not kicking up a fuss…or maybe they should kick up a fuss to make sure he gets lots of fuel…difficult to say. Say the 100 ended up on the island when their cruise ship sinks and they are two lifeboats that made it…and Mr. Tudor is there…and this empath who went through numerous consultations with him…and he helped them protect their child from the abusive narcissist ass-hat.
“If HG was devaluing an IPPS, he lacks privacy to do that covertly.” — it might simply be that more cold fury silent treatments occur. It might be that it manifests more as whispered threats. I’m sure that HG could find a way to modify the “terrifying car drive” scenario to be terrifying walk through the jungle to a cliff by a waterfall where they aren’t thrown in but they are trapped and unable to leave.
“Isolation would be difficult to achieve also as you said. I think it’s more likely that the IPPS would communicate her devaluation to others, or others would find out, therefore making it increasingly difficult to recruit a replacement IPPS.” — But who would be believed…I agree it would be problematic by the time multiple women are singing the same song. That’s why I think he would be more cautious. Of course, HG might choose to devalue in such a way as to ensure that the current IPPS remained unaware of it.
“Yes, HG would have useful skills that might offset expulsion for not playing nice but overall I would estimate the group would operate on a less hierarchical structure, harmony would be key, and if one male is getting too much power or too many women, the other males aren’t going to take kindly to him.” — How could HG be blamed for multiple women preferring his company to the other men? Some women are attracted to the super-villain type…I think he would keep enough men on side that the few who moaned miserably about him would look like the problems…
“HG would likely be viewed more positively if there was an outside threat to the group. That might nudge a more hierarchical structure that would suit him.” — And he would NEVER engineer the appearance of an outside threat to become Island King…and have an empaths argue over whose turn it is to fan him with a palm leaf…
“If there are 100 people, it’s also possible HG isn’t the only psychopath. Now that would be interesting to watch! My money is definitely on HG there!” — It would be interesting so long as the other psychopath is of similar intelligence…or completely terrifying…I agree…I’m team HG.
Regarding the discussion about earth’s natural resources being saved & the planet allowed to return to “goodness” for all life. It cannot be done. Too many toxins in places around the world. Can AI seriously “rid” the planet of the radiation on land, and the disposals of toxins that humans have dumped into the oceans? The wildlife returning to locations ie Chernobyl, are they toxin free? Lots of variables.
Aspi, yes! Radiation waste is pain in the back…I don’t know how, but thankfully some outdoor Chernobyl areas seem to recover. Wildlife is active again. The planet’s will is strong. But it will take time for the planet to recover. And certain societal mindset must continue to change further. This topic get me going, bear with me🐻!
As TS mentioned previously „water“ is one of the main issues. The war for freshwater would be the epitome of degradation of the society.
The planet can continue without passengers if they remained unwilling to adapt in nature’s cycles and certain people know and understand this. But still people cannot process that freshwater reservoirs are emptying and how it all connects. That it’s the lifestyle of the civilisation as a whole, which is causing the problem and they’re all in the same boat.
The planet has the same amount of water and it remains the same. How come, freshwater is disappearing if the water cycle is a sealed cycle? The answer is visible for everyone to see: the freshwater is pumped out rapidly on a massive scale, lavishly used and exported in to the ocean. Secondly, where forests are not present anymore – the earth’s SAVING water function is simply brought to an end. Trees and their long-reaching roots, the airy humus/ insect’s tunnels etc, are the rain-water-highways and simultaneously; the roots are the pumping systems, enabling groundwater in diverse earth layers to collect, for diverse plants with shorter and longer roots below and above, for insects, animals, humans (water springs etc). Forests, trees absorb CO2 from the atmosphere in to their bark; regulate the weather, the climate, all life in general.
Where planet’s ground is covered in cement and stone, rainwater can’t reach down inside the ground. It can’t collect and fill up groundwater reservoirs. The humans contribute to their demise by forest-extinction, monoculture, extinction of bio diversity on land, air and sea; heavy agriculture vehicles and global livestock farming – compacting the ground and thus prevent the sponge-function of the ground i.e. the rainwater to permeate.
Only long-term solutions of self-sustaining nature, to repair the damage where it was manmade, would allow humanity to remain. Only in unity with nature. Whenever humans would check out of this bond; they degenerate and destruct their source of life, yet calling it progress.
Jordyguin, thank you for your reply. It was interesting to read and I agree on what you have said. Part of the issue is narcissists may have too much power (money orientated on owning some of these lands / water companies etc) rather than putting the emphasis on saving water (ie burst water pipes, maintenance of such etc) yet they impose (quite correctly to a degree) hosepipe bans. HG has correctly suggested that having some narcissists in power are not necessarily bad because empaths may think with their emotions more. Prince William’s ‘EarthShot’ Project is great because it’s approach is for everybody / the planet not as ie a privately owned water company. Despite all that, there is too much toxic waste that cannot be eradicated / recycled, hence the mention of Chernobyl.
Thank you Aspi:)) Apparently there is a solution found on nuclear waste decay time shortage in Belgium. A conversion into less and less radiating isotopes, which would lead to 200-300 years instead of 25 000- 200 000. Our present aim is of course not to add to the waste piles of all kind and to reduce as much as possible. I absolutely don’t want to envision to have to go into space in a Wall-e scenario, where the Earth decayed completely and technology was used to tidy up the mess of mankind. That level of destruction would not let any species survive however. They presented the solution just within a technological and AI approach and it was a manipulative move, whilst sensible nature based solutions were not presented. Also spaceship-born mankind – I don’t believe that humans would actually survive in space for that long, without suffering major deficits and succumb to them. There is too much in play for the physiology and psychology, where we need all facets of the planet’s environment to develop in to healthy beings. But Wall-e on the other hand did a good job on presenting the fatal hell of waste if mankind don’t re-think on this problem. Thus it was helpful in that sense.
Jordyguin, thank you for that explanation. At present, 90% of UK’s river habitats are affected by raw sewerage and farming pollution (The Guardian 12 Aug 2023). Humans would take many years to evolve in order to survive as a species to live in space. Even if humans were to move to another planet, there would still be power / control ‘clashes’ yet pollution may not reach the same levels as it has on Earth. It is the ‘now’ that matters and some ‘wrongs’ can be ‘corrected’ immediately but requires a ‘collective’ to work together and to act on it. At present, too many politicians are “working” on entirely different ‘aims’ rather the same objective, despite attending summits and saying ‘yes’. It’s partly why I mentioned Prince William’s project previously, he does not get involved in politics, despite the ‘agenda’ (objective) being the same (saving the planet), his ‘route’ does not necessarily involve conflict, nor create it.
Thank you Aspi! I agree with you:) My support in general lies with Prince William, more than with any other politician on this planet!! Whatever may result out of that dynasty may actually change the course of it all. I’m very optimistic about their and Prince William leadership and impact on the world!♡
Dear HG, if for argument’s sake we were to operate under the assumption that after the collapse of the construct you would not cease to exist and instead somehow emerge as this new person we are fantasising about. That still leaves the problem of the necessary steps before that could happen. Not only would you have to consciously decide to embark on this journey, very tempting I’m sure – not, but in my opinion as a prerequisite there would need to be a sustained situation which leads the narcissism to the conclusion that it is not only safe, but advantageous to completely switch itself off. Under which conditions would such a tried and tested self-defence mechanism decide to just kill itself off because it considers itself superfluous? I do not see military alliances such as NATO scrambling to disband just because Russia has not attacked any neighbour for two years, which is of course a stretch at the present time. It does not suffice for you to want to change. You would need an accord of the conscious and subconscious mind that this world is so peaceful and safe, and guaranteed to stay that way, that there are huge gains and no risks to such an endeavour. I cannot speak for you or others, but to me it seems that we are nowhere near this world. Regrettable as it is for the rest of us, I do not see a compelling case for the narcissism to abolish itself outside of a fantasy world.
Anna Plyance, hi! „The Introduction to the Creature“ gave an insight in to the interesting stuff you’re contemplating about. (just in case you haven’t checked it out yet) HG stayed out of fuel for a time period in order to record that. It was a fantastic eye opener!
In general, it occurred to me that ’narcissist’s fluidity’ (which is a magnificent ability in itself!) needs a specific strong ’point of reference’ otherwise they would lose everything, just as they did when the construct had to emerge. To create a new point of reference, maybe..?… maybe to jump even farther..? Who knows what’s possible…
Hello Jordyguin!
Since I have not been around KTN for long, I have not yet read “The Creature”, but I will be certain to do it. Regarding a “point of reference”, I am afraid that I cannot yet offer anything sensible on the topic at this point, so I am going to keep my mouth shut for now.
Your thinking here is interesting. How to disable the defence mechanism. It’s a little like fear / anxiety, fear was more useful when we had sabre toothed tigers running around and lived off the land. Far less useful now, but we haven’t evolved quickly enough to adapt to our changing environment.
I don’t believe there will ever be a time where narcissism has a cure. Unaware narcissists will never ever change. They might claim to have changed, they won’t. Unaware is unaware, their narcissism will never allow them to change even if they are told what they are. The narcissism will never allow them the true awareness of what they are.
If we were looking at an aware narcissist, even then, they are aware to an extent that they have a need for control. They are aware also I think that they get a ‘buzz’ from adoration or admiration. They are aware that they get a ‘buzz’ out of destroying someone, seeing them cry, fall apart, lose control etc. I’m not certain that they could fully explain how their narcissism functions though, what it actually is that drives them and precisely why.
HG is aware, fully aware, but, like the Greaters he would see no reason to change. He is effective as he is, can’t disagree with him there. He is protected against the cruel world he inhabits. Can’t disagree with him there either. So for HG to want to disable his narcissism even intermittently, he would need a water tight reason to attempt it. It isn’t going to be based on ‘the right thing to do’ or finding emotional empathy at the back of his knicker drawer.
Who is going to prove the benefits of disabling his narcissism? If HG is face to face with the good doctors then his narcissism demands he controls them. He’s paying lip service to therapy, he isn’t invested, has his own agenda there and it isn’t to do with therapy or becoming a ‘good’ guy.
All of that stated, I do believe that HG wants to be understood. Remaining anonymous facilitates that. It’s no threat to control to share thoughts if no one knows who you are. There’s likely far more honesty in the pages of the blog than there would ever be in a session with the good doctors for that very reason. So, step one, therapy would need to be anonymous and with someone who understands narcissism and psychopathy as well as he does. We might be struggling there.
There is still a degree of flexibility within HG’s narcissism in my view though.
Threats to control. There’s flexibility here. The narcissist receives threats to control during the golden period too. The narcissism essentially downgrades the threat. It prioritises the acquisition of the new primary source over the threat to control. The higher echelon narcissists would not be in the least bit threatened during this golden period. Their focus is on embedding the source and extracting the positive fuel, so, the narcissism has the capacity to prioritise based on the immediate requirement of the host. Threat is not always viewed as threat if the narcissism is focussed elsewhere on a more pressing objective.
The facade. The Greater will not easily damage his own facade when met with a threat to control. Again, the narcissism prioritises the facade as being of greater long term importance than putting down the threat to control in that moment. HG will have an iron grip on his ignited fury. It will probably be used as a weapon more often than a defence. He’ll likely choose to show it on occasion but it will be choice not instinct.
The Greater ‘makes a note’ to exact revenge for the threat to control at a later date. This is a choice, to me it is nothing to do with a defence mechanism. The threat has already passed, the Greater is in a different moment, day, week or month when he exacts revenge. That’s malice and that’s a choice. Nothing to do with the narcissism itself.
Risk of exposure. If HG was confined to an island with 100 people, his narcissism would have to adapt to meet his needs. How many intimate partners could be devalued before the remainder of potential targets cottoned on? How long before the rest of the group expelled him? Not long. So here, I would estimate that the narcissism would have to adapt to accommodate circumstances i.e remaining in one area for an extended period. The golden period would have to be extended. Disengagement triggers would need to be disarmed. Fuel becoming stale is the largest problem here. The narcissism would have to recognise an additional less demonstrative facet to fuel than it does currently.
Fury for me is the greatest issue. The desire to punish. In the book Fury, HG lists a variety of causes that feed in to his Fury. This makes sense, a variety of things make me angry, not just one. However, if I look back at my emotional detachment from my mum, there’s plenty of reasons I could give that contributed to that decision, but, there’s one scene that stands out. The tipping point, the key driver. To my mind, the fury comes from primarily one scene. Whether that scene could ever be addressed and the fury quelled to something less destructive is beyond my ability to even guess.
There is flexibility within HG’s narcissism in my opinion. I don’t believe it would be disabled entirely, it’s part of who he is, similar to the empath’s addiction. I’ll never lose the addiction to narcissists but I can manage it. There might be opportunity to amend the management of his narcissism differently based on circumstance, necessity but mostly the will to do so. My money would be on grandiosity being the driver for that.
With HG being both psychopath and narcissist, there might also be a point where the psychopathy views the narcissism as a disadvantage / risk factor / threat to success. This would again provide motivation for the narcissism to be managed differently.
It’s a massive endeavour, but if motivation was there I don’t see it as being impossible, not with that level of intellect.
I like to ponder things, break puzzles down into smaller pieces and ask, “Ok, for arguments sake, if we were to do this differently, where would we start? Doesn’t matter if it seems impossible, just where is the wiggle room?”
I hadn’t seen your comment about narc island. That’s funny you should think along the same lines!
At one point we all lived in ‘bands’. Bands were around 80 people max. Later the flat hierarchical structures of the bands changed to the more pyramid like hierarchical structures we have today. Equal distribution of power and resources doesn’t work as numbers grow.
There will have been narcissists and psychopaths emerging naturally in the bands, but the group dealt with those who sought too much power. They were killed and with them their genetic predisposition for narcissism would be lost from the gene pool.
So some narcissists must have adapted to exist successfully within bands. Once hierarchical structures changed, bows and arrows arrived, land was an asset used for farming then there were things to fight about. Wars were fought, leaders emerged, power was fine then as long as your chieftain was winning. Narcissists and psychopaths could reveal themselves more freely and would have started to claim positions of power, their blood lines along with them. This hasn’t really changed unless you live in the Amazon rainforest. Here the hierarchical structure is still flat, interesting.
At some point though narcissism must have had to adapt to its environment. In some ways it’s an adaptation in and of itself. Adaptations change in line with changes in environment so my thinking is that narcissism can’t be fully fixed in how it manifests. It has to have a degree of malleability. It does I suppose, there are differences between and within schools. Narcissism is fixed within the fibre of the host, but my thinking is more around the degree of flexibility within the narcissism itself and what benefits such flexibility might bring.
„…if we were to do this differently, where would we start? Doesn’t matter if it seems impossible, just where is the wiggle room?“
Perfect questions!
We’re exactly at this point in time. We can’t go back to the jungle and can’t continue to destroy our habitat and ourselves.
When the water on the planet becomes more and more polluted and undrinkable with each new cycle – the society is not moving up but down on the evolutionary scale. The health of the soil and water are the clues for degradation where „advanced“ technologies plays a part in it.
I’m not fully against technologies. But because things are possible or done with those technologies, doesn’t mean they are evolutionary. Whilst technology „evolve“ humans also degrade.
To use the technology in a way of repairing the damage it created – would be one of the steps to do something differently.
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I too would like to read or listen to those manifests HG spoke about to Doug!
When the water on the planet becomes more polluted and more scarce, this would result in war. The only way to avoid that I think is for technology to intervene.
I have read a few more scientific ideas that sound promising when it comes to global warming. The idea of creating a shield in our atmosphere being one that I thought wasn’t quite as crazy as it first appeared.
AI might well provide answers, but AI itself poses its own risks. Call me naive but creating a self aware system that is brighter than the brightest human, can write its own code and communicate it throughout the entirety of a network in seconds, doesn’t fill me with confidence for a bright future. Maybe I just read too many apocalyptic novels!
Like you, I hope that eventually we use our technological muscle to repair and protect as opposed to using it to seek and destroy.
I’m with you on the AI-topic, TS. It’s truly unsafe and the reason some developers steer back on it. I guess some of the future „solutions“ would nevertheless be stemming from AI calculations and thus to take under the humane-microscope more carefully.
The idea of creating a shield in our atmosphere, is not the best and there are easier and far better options to regulate the climate.
The technological mechanical solution would be for instance, to first of all stop the extinction of forests. To recreate mixed-forests instead of monoculture forests and recreate natural habitats on the ruins of the manmade dead soils of agriculture around the world, in order to regulate the weather and climate. One paper and the „war money“ are redirected for this causes instead. Forests can grow very fast with terraforming and water management.
Permaculture based agriculture should be achieved. The health of the soil, the groundwater, insects and animals should be in the main focus. The balanced Permaculture based solution don’t allow vermin’s increase/overpopulation and reduce the necessity for toxic pesticides, which poisons the groundwater and extinct insects, birds and species.
Pros who care about people and nature should be the decision makers on regenerating the soil and water. And not hindered by corporations and such. Money makers should switch to a humane money investment and view their impact in a bigger picture approach.
The natural world exists out of cycles of regeneration and rebirth. It is a perfect and sealed process. Our modern day technology and its end products exists on dead ends and produce dead ends for organic life; swallowing up earth’s resources and can’t fit in to the natural organic cycles. To reduce the circulation of toxic technology and its end products, by choice, should be achievable for any type of intelligent individual, I think.
Totally agree with you, the natural systems in place do work until they are exploited by humankind.
I agree also that there are natural ways to rectify the problem. Your rainforest and soil examples are again accurate and productive solutions.
Where I think we differ is whether we view these solutions as viable when in order for them to work, really a multinational approach would need to be agreed upon and adhered to. Here I lose faith entirely. Too many back handers, too much empire building. Often it’s economy versus climate, or it’s short term versus long term and even taking narcissists out of the picture, self interest tends to win out. It shouldn’t, but it does.
An example would be a subsistence farmer clearing a patch of rainforest to feed his family. He isn’t interested in saving the planet, he’s interested in the now problem, feeding his family. I recognise that the subsistence farmer isn’t the largest problem, global corporations have greater impact, world governments, but that mindset is also motivating voters. In all honesty, the subsistence farmer is just doing his best, but his motivation is his family not climate change.
I turn to technology more as hopefully identifying another solution not because I think the natural approach to fixing climate change is ineffective, but rather I view mankind as inherently selfish and short termist. I can’t envisage humans committing themselves fully to saving the planet. I can’t envisage them ever finding an agreement or common approach. All in all our views are similar but our faith in humankind I think differs.
I hope you are right though, I really do. I hope humankind raises its game and my view of humanity is simply jaded and without foundation.
I totally agree with your comments. But I think there may be a shining light in the younger generation who’ve grown up with the idea of Climate Change and see it as a problem that must be tackled, while previous generations were generally brought up to believe in economical and commercial advancement and addressing the consequences of that advancement were only introduced later. I’m optimistic that this will make a difference as these generations start to run the world. Whether it will be a bit too late – perhaps – but I think it will help slow and reduce the changes.
Truthseeker: great response! But how far back does the narc gene go? It could lie dormant then given the right circumstances ( unstable environment) arise. I wonder if it was in every species not just human sapiens. ?There are 7-8 known species of “ man” today. Hominids. The Nethandronthals were said to be gentler and thus exterminated by Homo sapiens in fact historically percentage wise, the largest genocide in mankind was the Homo sapiens killing off Nethandrothals. And why in those rainforests did you mention the gene did not arise …was there a better controlled nurturing environment? And where does this narc gene come from, I once read it was the warrior gene. From the beginning in evolution? Or is it sin? Evil? All we know based on current science that 6%+ have it and it’s growing. Psychopaths are 1% but in the USA it is estimated 25% have it in prison. Is that because we got better at understanding the brain? And why are so many psychopaths caught and in prison? I think that there are classes of psychopaths that HG will educate us on later ie antisocial personality disorder, sadists, arsonists, pedophiles….So many questions. …
TS hi:)) oh yes the farmer who isn’t interested in saving the planet, he’s interested in the now problem, clearing a patch of rainforest to feed his family — he probably can’t see how feeding his family NOW may be the cause for the ’end game’ of his family later down the line, IF every farmer would continue to behave as he does.
The society was not ultimately trained to think in long-term, self-sustaining solutions as it was not required previously. The bare necessity and catastrophic outcomes are the ’forcing to change’ factors. For instance agro forestry, regenerative agriculture and forest farming are now successfully put in to effect in different countries.
I’m sure you know this trick: how to find a correct solution is; to imagine the thought or the action would be carried out by every human on the planet, magnify, and realise the outcome it would create – makes the value of the thought or action visible, helps to decide to take it or not. „If everyone on the planet would do this, what would be the outcome?“ should be asked each time as we are about to manifest something in thought or action. And it would mean to 100% concentrate on our small circle, direct environment and on solutions of co-creative, long-term, self-sustaining, nature. Where we change or create something within our minor or major possibilities, is all that is required. Thus the change is actually simple.
The pioneers continuously present and implement solutions. Humanity is informed and is given a selection to chose from, where to apply one’s effort and impact on the survival of the bio-diversity whilst it is linked to the survival of human species.
Those rare individuals, HG wrote about in „Humanity“, those who swim against the prevailing tide – it is their impact which magnifies as their intention is to co-exist with the planet, with nature and in balance within the humane of the human. This people feel it and know it consciously or subconsciously and are directing their attention purposefully on their small steps. Their intent prevails as it connects to the intent of this magnificent Earth. They are the source of optimism and inspiration :)♡
Yes totally right, people aren’t used to thinking long term whether that be to do with the environment or their credit card bill! In the grand scheme of things the climate problem is a relatively new concern.
I think you’re right also in terms of small changes on a large scale would have considerable impact. Changes have to be affordable too, increases in costs of electricity can push someone below the poverty line and globally I think this is also a large part of the problem. I saw a really surprising statistic the other day. Something like 50% of the global population doesn’t have access to affordable electricity. Until that changes poor countries will remain poor and whilst they remain poor, their populations will live hand to mouth. They will access their fuel however they can get it and that won’t be beneficial for the environment at all. I have to have faith that brighter minds than mine will find the solution to what is a multi layered problem. A solution though, a change, has to be better than no change, particularly if it’s realistic for large numbers of people to implement.
As an aside, in terms of easy wins, one thing that shocked me in the US was soft drinks packaging. Flavoured non fizzy drinks that are already water diluted, ready to pour. How is that even permitted?! The brand was Welch’s I think, something like that. That’s massive amounts of plastic per family household! Why aren’t they sold as concentrate that you dilute with water at home? Such an easy win in terms of reducing plastic waste. Mr Welch is obviously a narc and makes more profit selling case loads of diluted drinks than he would if he sold his sugary goodness as concentrate!
That’s a fair point too, the younger generation are definitely more aware. My concern there is the way that generation takes its information. Sound bite style. So in terms of deciding upon an approach that could fix the situation, my concern for them is that they won’t consider all of the information or all of the options. Global warming and its mitigation is big money, there will be narc decision makers involved there like anywhere else and it bothers me that that particular generation will go with the loudest voice and that voice might well be the most self serving.
I really do worry for my kids and what the world will look like when they are making the decision to have their own children or not. As it stands, if I had any influence on that decision at all (which I won’t have) I would advise against them having their own children. We are ten years off that decision minimum so maybe things will improve during that time. Strangely, I think a lot will become clear in the next ten years but I do think that mine is the last generation that will experience ‘ a good life’. I have never felt so disillusioned with the world as it stands currently and I see it getting worse, not better. Too much power held by too few and a population that seems intent on wasting their intellect on reality tv, influencers and the latest TikTok trend.
I’m such a little ray of sunshine today aren’t I? Haha!
Homo Sapiens might have killed off Neanderthals, the two species interacted because I read that there is DNA evidence for both coded into our genes. This is a long way from my area of expertise but as far as I know, Neanderthals were suited to colder climates whereas Homo Sapiens were smaller, they invented basic tools such as needles so could make basic clothing, they established trade routes so would have done better in times of food scarcity and they invented bows and arrows. So the Neanderthals were outplayed but also there might have been an element of natural selection involved there also. As I said though, not my area of expertise at all. In terms of how far back the narc gene goes, personally I would imagine it to be present within these groups. If narcissism forms within LOCE I would imagine there was plenty of LOCE. Psychopaths would most likely have been around too, though with the differences in the psychopathic brain versus the neurotypical brain functioning I wonder how different the psychopath of then would be to the psychopath of today.
You raise interesting questions as to the percentages of psychopaths in prisons as opposed to percentage of the population as a whole. Hare formulated his PCL R test based on the prison population, hardly a representative sample and since then there have been psychologists that have attempted to raise serious concerns about the validity of that test. Two psychologists Skeem and Cooke wrote a paper raising concerns about the test, the paper passed peer review, but Haare threatened a law suit against them for allegedly misrepresenting his work. They were challenging the idea that criminality is central to psychopathy. After much lobbying by Hare the paper was never published.
Hare himself has raised concerns that the PCL R test is being administered by untrained psychologists without the understanding to interpret the results, results which are then often relied upon in court for sentencing and parole. The PCLR was never designed to serve this purpose and yet it’s used and regularly. So in terms of a psychopathy checklist, Hare’s is definitely shady in my view and he guards his money maker aggressively. It would be interesting to know what Hare is himself. Narc, normal or narcissistic, unlikely to be a psychopath.
Not enough transparency around this subject for my liking. It’s a fairly safe bet there are psychopaths in prisons that don’t belong to the psychopath group at all.
„I have never felt so disillusioned with the world as it stands currently and I see it getting worse, not better.“
And it is in exactly THIS where the unique opportunity comes with!
By getting worse it gets disillusioned and illusions are far more difficult to uphold. People can’t look away anymore as illusions covered up previously. It is part of healing, as with any strong disease, where it enters the organism invisibly and then flourish in all its “beauty” and then heal out and vanish.
“Too much power held by too few and a population that seems intent on wasting their intellect on reality tv, influencers and the latest TikTok trend.”
Perhaps we are observing „the leftovers“ demanding attention via the convulsions of what has already died and grip and pull whilst sliding in to the grave. The insanity of it all is too visible and I just want to take a step back, turn around and ’let it slide in to the grave’ and turn my attention else where, to what really matters and what is in the power of my hands directly.
„I think a lot will become clear in the next ten years but I do think that mine is the last generation that will experience ‘ a good life’.“
Lol indeed you are such a little ray of sunshine with that😅 Well perhaps the future generations will shake their heads at what we think ’a good life’ is.
💕
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Another thing I wanted to ask you!
You shared somewhere else on the blog, that you dreamt of HG.
I hope you get this, my notifications seem to have stopped for this thread.
I see your thinking, as things further deteriorate, the illusion or even glossing over of problems will become impossible to hide forcing people to take action when they might not currently be doing so. Add in Annamel’s point about the young being better educated and more aware of environmental issues and it is a more optimistic view than mine definitely, valid points I think.
I take your point also about contributing ourselves and worrying less about the apathy of others. I think I interpreted that correctly? You’re right, we can’t control others, only ourselves, so getting frustrated by the seeming lack of interest in important issues isn’t doing me any favours. You’re right, it isn’t, it’s making me dislike humankind more and more, that isn’t my usual way of being and it feels uncomfortable.
To your dream question. It wasn’t very detailed other than the fact I got a good look at HG.
I walked by HG sat at a table with three women in a upmarket bar. I turned and looked directly at him. I sensed it was him, didn’t show any recognition, turned away and kept walking. He saw me look at him and a minute later he appeared at my side and steered me out of the bar area. I picked up speed a little so he picked up speed to match my pace. We walked through two open doors and then we were running and jumping to various moving staircases suspended in black nothingness. I jumped, he jumped, still alongside still not saying anything. I wasn’t nervous, I wasn’t running to get away, more, half running to make the next jump, but he was still quietly matching my pace, still alongside. Eventually I just stopped on the staircase, turned to face him and said, “Stop.” Then I woke up.
That was pretty much it. No exciting plot, just a very clear image of what HG looked and felt like.
(I considered making it a bit juicier for entertainment purposes but decided to tell it as it was. Haha!)
TS, wow!!! That is a fantastic dream!!! Continue it!!! Dream it again!!!
Set an intent to meet HG again to continue to jump to other staircases! Count them. Do you have a number or a sense of the number of the staircases or stairs? What were you sensing they would lead you to? Was it him who pushed you to the „moving staircases suspended in black nothingness“ or was it you who guided him? Or did the staircases guide i.e. an outer source? What was the feeling? Was it day or night? How was the temperature? Was it still or loud, windy or not?
You turned and said “Stop” and immediately woke up – that’s a good hint of control in dreams. Intent to dream it again! Your dreaming body KNOWS how to do it. Let it do it by knowing that it knows. It may work with the same dream or there will be another.
Dreaming is not that difficult, especially for females who are with one foot in the realm of ’dreaming’ anyway, that’s why they usually don’t bother with this gift and dismiss it most of the time. Ask a male if he ’dreams’ and he will spark and shine about this one dream he had ten years ago and still remembers in detail. Males appreciate ’dreaming’ much more. Their energetic structure is slightly different. Male energy is different…We do complete each other in a far more interesting way than one would think…
Anyway, in dreams you’re correlating with fine energetic layers, time or rather un-time……the physical is not the only form, and not even the majority form of existence. It’s just the most dense form, that’s it.
There are doors into ’dreaming’ forged by your intent and your energy or rather the free amount of energy you may have for dreaming. Our full energy amount is occupied with upholding the daily problems, but in accordance with your psychological problem solving of your daily life — your energetic structure will upload the energy for dreaming. When one manages to solve their struggles (fears and such) of psychological nature during the day and don’t take these problems into dreaming, thus entering that door ’empty’ – that is where the fun begins.
Logic in waking life plays a huge part in ’dreaming’ because it creates a shield which transpires into dreaming and helps to maintain sobriety i.e. control of the dream and use this natural ability, which helps to connect the physical and the non-physical in order to have the more expansive experience.
You had a really interesting dream there, involving movement of “up”, I assume you moved up, or was it random? And numbers, stairs. There is a hint of couple things in it… Not to mention “the three that got away” sitting with HG at the start of it and you both walking through two open doors — this may be the two doors of narcissism and psychopathy which let you through…
Perhaps this dream occurred during a period of an energy-upload, which resulted from some problem-solving, freeing the energy. Really cool:))
Hello Truthseeker,
thank you for your comments. I am very much still a newbie here, so I cannot claim any sort of deeper knowledge in the way you old hands would have acquired it. But I think that motivation would be essential, and that is the first stumbling block right there. To quote from the 5 Central Questions: Why halt doing something that always delivers? (In an old thread, there was a comment that this sounded like addict thinking. To me it simply sounds like “Never change a winning team”.) Any promised gains would have to be guaranteed and outweigh the benefits of the current position exponentially, and then add to that the risks associated with such an endeavour – I don’t see it.
Even if there was the will/motivation, to me it seems doubtful that the narcissism could be tricked into sleep mode or anything similar. The whole purpose of the thing is to defend against threats, and any sort of therapy with the goal of change, i.e. stopping the narcissism, would be perceived as the ultimate threat and torpedoed by the narcissism. Probably the most that could be achieved would be a degree of regulating behaviours. But the basic setting of the narcissism, that everybody is out to get them, will still be there. And then there is the question of emotional empathy that would have to be learned from scratch…..
All of that is if you had a narcissist who wanted to change. Has anybody actually seen one of those or are they like the yeti?
When it comes to those not wanting to change or not knowing what they are, we have another issue. Outside of criminal behaviours, I do not assume that I have the right to demand of anybody else to change. I can only regulate my own reaction to their behaviour, whether to tolerate it, applaud it, stay or go. If I am involved with a narcissist, GOSO is the only option. Not just because I am unable to change that person, but also because I do not have the right to change him or her, just as he or she has no right to change me. That applies to HG as well, of course. He may treat his victims abominably, but unless that crosses certain boundaries, I do not see that I have any right to demand he change. If the victim tolerates it, that is their decision, however much HG might have screwed with their decision-making abilities. I have no jurisdiction over either of them. Would I want him to behave differently? Absolutely. Do I have the right to decide HG should change? Absolutely not.
Agree with your yeti analogy and your thinking as to there needing to be a distinct benefit to change. Something quantifiable and that begs the question if it hasn’t materialised up until now, why would it do so going forward?
There’s possibly a curiosity about change on HG’s part. Also a sense of being the first to achieve what other narcissists have not in terms of narcissism itself. The pitting of oneself against oneself as an intellectual exercise, that might hold some attraction for HG. Definitely a worthy opponent who wouldn’t be boring! Boredom is always a factor, something I can’t fully comprehend but it is a factor that comes up repeatedly. Would HG trial a different approach just to see if he can? There’s a grandiosity about that which kind of fits I think. I could see that being a motivation for change above anything else at this point.
In terms of unaware narcissists, change isn’t something I even consider. I agree in principle that I would have no right to demand change of another human being. I accept that HG is what he is, I might not endorse his behaviour in relation to his own relationships but on balance I would argue that he puts more good out into the world than bad, and, like it or not, the world does need dark to tackle the dark and it’s getting darker by the day as far as I can tell. As far as attempting to change the one remaining narcissist in my life, no point, I’m not interested enough.
Like everyone else I don’t like the thought of another empath suffering, going through worse than I went through, but I can’t change that outcome or influence it in any way. I can think about it though, look at possibilities, because at some point in the future, life might not look quite the same, motivations might change and I’m interested in pondering how that change might be effected if there was the will to do so.
Anna, hi. This point in your reply is interesting!
„But I think that motivation would be essential…“
As TS also mentioned: Motivation is curiosity! Aside other things, HG’s driver comes from fearlessness and curiosity; of absorbing and documenting information. The „mirror’s“ ability to get everything in the picture that is shown, in order to reflect impeccably — the source of the reflection. And the „disease“ which riddles is also a metaphysical one, as everything in reality. Interconnectedness of all „diseases“ in this dynamic plays a part. If we “heal” others may “heal” and vice versa.
The other thing I wanted to share was on sharks and orcas, you mentioned on some other thread. There is further information on this matter.
It is indeed an obscure fact that some orcas, being hyper intelligent, would hunt the great white just for their liver. Now timely I came across the information that there are sharks discovered with some orca-bite-marks, who somehow survived the attacks. So, what did they do to not succumb in the confrontation between this two species?
There is no documented evidence on this, just theories. And there is one, by a shark lover (not a shark scientist) which is quite interesting: The shark’s advantage would be to escape downward!
Quoting the theory:
Even if orcas are faster, bigger and hunt in groups (of two or more), yet their mammalian intelligence comes with a cost of them having to surface to get air. The maximum an orca can hold its breath is for about 15 minutes. Assuming it would need to swim the same speed up as it does back down; it can only dive for about 7 minutes. Plus the factor to consider that the orca would be more oxygen starved from chasing. An orca can go to max depth of about 1000m (3280ft). The great whites have been recorded at 1200m (3937ft) and here is where the advantage becomes clear. The shark just has to swim down for a few minutes and the orca will have to turn around (to get air) and then the shark can keep swimming deeper and just swim away.
Including a little time advantage needed for this maneuver to take place, on the shark’s side, the conclusion would be: maybe diving in a more vertical position for a few minutes is enough, when the shark try to swim away from the direction of attack.
Where the comparison falls with HG, would be — this ’creature’ was designed and also designed himself to find ways on how to survive and evolve. And we are talking about the King of the sea.
It should be mentioned that the fascination with the ’jaws’ for us comes also from the unsuspicious force of curiosity as well. Humans are designed in a way where there are also components, very powerful ones, not yet fully discovered, but subconsciously and consciously in development.
Wide open curiosity, unsuspiciousness, loving and forgiving nature of an empath – morphed with dangerous programming and addictions… And we don’t know who developed the „disease“ at first…Keeping all in mind will drive our introspection forward. To look at all fragments of truths. Interpretations. People interpret the truth of others mostly without ’being in their shoes’. (deep Contagion ability and understanding would change that of course)
It is a damn big ocean and only 20 percent of the sea is explored, mapped, seen. Kind of the same with humans capacity. It’s gonna be fascinating, scary, exiting, perhaps disappointing in some instances and surprising in other. We keep swimming, right.
Empaths? Hmmm given all information about dolphins at the moment, who knows? Males would kill a newborn calve in order to mate with their mother. Survival? I don’t know. Difficult to say.
Truthseeker! I just had to thank you for the detailed informative controversy regarding Hare. HG has not done classifications on psychopaths and from what I read it’s a greater/ultra blog. I feel that most in prison are anti- social personality disorder which I see differently from psychopaths. Just your basic criminals not following rules, norms and laws but without considering the big picture of “ beauty” “ power” or “ emptiness.” I also recall the top child psychologist telling me during the child custody dispute that criminals can make good fathers. ( She was partly right, he did ok with his 20%). I got 80% custody after my diagnosed ASPD ex sued me for full custody. He said I was delusional seeing things that weren’t there. Lol. Crimes. Drugs. Affairs. All in my head, right? Lol. But I was terrified as ASPD was also referred to as sociopath and psychopath. The sociopath Next Door book came out that year. I dove in. The child psychologist said not all psychopaths are sadists or bloodthirsty. So? HG? Are there classes? A difference between ASPD , sociopath, psychopath, sadist, arsonist, pedophile or serial killer? I think so. My ex was just an organized criminal. I don’t think he desired to rape, kill, torture, or burn anything. He had many traits described. Broken empathy, boredom, restlessness, limited emotion, goal seeking, no respect for laws, rules, norms. He doesn’t have friends. His few friends are “ connected” in NY and business. He plays poker and that’s his thrill. Gambling. Winning. Making money. He is psychotic about money. He hoards it like his family. They like to die rich. Not spenders really. My ex will drive in his rolls 45 minutes to buy used fruit for example. He cannot stand anyone making money off of him. His wives were all cheated on and he wants regular sex as a transaction I think to live in his mansions. He wanted many “ boys” got one. He favors my daughter as she is a super successful person who wants to make her own way. Strait As since birth, bright, compassionate and hardworking. She got a full blown scholarship to a great school in LA. She is computer science but I influenced her to study in Germany and get a film minor to balance out all the high math she says is easy but boring. She already has a 6 digit salary offered from an international company, the CTO offered it to her while in box seats watching Lebron James make history. I see her as a CEO as she has logic but compassion. She won’t alienate, she will rise. She once told me she would never b a doctor or a lawyer as she “ doesn’t want to take care of other peoples problems.” This would sound cold but she is an activist too and a loving daughter, sister and friend. I think she got the best of us. Her half siblings from him did not do as well. One is in and out of jail and drug rehabs. Her sister in and out of mental health facilities and on disability. I love them both and am in their lives hoping for better. All know they will inherit millions. Two are waiting for it. Not mine. Did my daughter inherit the narc gene but I was the one who prevented her from narcissism? I don’t know. I don’t know if she got the gene. She looks like my twin since birth. She lives like me but I see his influence. The way she carefully plans and considers things. Her business acumen. He takes total credit of course! Lol but the whole family credits me. Me? I don’t discredit his contribution….it’s interesting raising a child with a ASPD parent.
Just saw this. I am so fascinated by the scenario and observations here. Gives me so many questions…
“If HG was confined to an island with 100 people, his narcissism would have to adapt to meet his needs.” — Agreed. But that would depend on the general breakdown among the people there…are you assuming that they would match the general population…1/6 are narcs, 3/6 normals, and 2/6 are empaths. Furthermore…would the breakdown of schools similarly match the general percentages of narc schools/cadres and empath schools/cadres. Or would it be different? What if the island’s population was 99 empaths and one Ultra? Would this victim limit change the preferred school/cadre HG would target for an IPPS?
If we assume the island population matches the general population percentages:
With 99 potential victims and no way to communicate with those off the island…65/99 potential victims on the island are less susceptible, owing to their being normals/narcissists and 34/99 are empaths, if half the empaths 17/34 are male (something HG has repeatedly stated is not to his sexual tastes, and presumably, most of the male empaths would be straight if they match the general population percentages, then most of them would not be good IPPSs…though they might be suitable as an NIPS–but would HG give up the residual benefit of sex?), then there are only 17 female empath victims to provide for the prime aims as the IPPS optimally…
“How many intimate partners could be devalued before the remainder of potential targets cottoned on? How long before the rest of the group expelled him? Not long.” — Depends…what is the breakdown of school/cadre of the 17 female empaths who could be considered to be best choices? I think that HG would keep the worst of the devaluing behavior hidden. It sounds like that is predominantly what he does now, too. He’s stated many times that he doesn’t need an audience to witness his assertions of control. There might be more narcissistic/normal women who could fill the roles of DLSs/IPSSs. Moreover, I think HG’s public facade would be impeccable and irreproachable. What sort of knowledge would the empaths have of narcissism before ending up on the island? What skills would HG bring to the population (I think we can assume them to be vital)? What sort of distractions would be provided by the less skilled, stupider narcissists? Imagine if one was just like HW?
If the island’s population, instead, is 99 female empaths to one Ultra–well, all the empaths have the addiction to deal with and only one person to get their hits from. Additionally, they would not be quick to exile anyone. Arguably, seems to me 99 empaths to the Ultra would a good (if not the best) island situation for HG…assuming they aren’t all weaponized empaths who’ve learned from him…well, then HG knows everything they know…I think HG could make any of the situations work for him. When they spotted those bad behaviors…they would still need his knowledge/skills/etc.
Moreover, HG might make himself king of Empath Island after washing up on their shore.
“So here, I would estimate that the narcissism would have to adapt to accommodate circumstances i.e remaining in one area for an extended period.” — Agreed.
“Fuel becoming stale is the largest problem here.” — It would be a major problem.
Fury and the need to punish…another problem, but only if it escapes in front of witnesses…how quiet could numerous incidents be kept in a small island community without modern building materials to sound proof? He could invite the hapless empath for a picnic on a cliff and isolate them…
And I agree that I think HG could make any changes that he wants…and if he has the right motivation, he might do anything…
Why 100 people? One Ultra – one empath. Adaptation guaranteed.
Also, when civilisation problems fall away, there is less for the narc-construct to fight for or compete with world’s expectation of fitting in. No wounding from all sides.
On the island, why should the empath want to wound, if Ultra would explain to the empath.
They would face island survival and simple life rather.
If the empath would be worn down or over the top abused, she would lose the will to live and will be gone, and who wants that?! Narcissism? No.
“On the island, why should the empath want to wound, if Ultra would explain to the empath.” — I don’t think that empaths intentionally wound as long as they aren’t being abused…but it can still happen. They don’t know that their fuel is becoming stale or that they cease giving as much as the narcissist needs. It feels like a natural relationship progression to them. And I don’t think H.G. would tell them…it’s transferring power.
“she would lose the will to live and will be gone, and who wants that” — Excellent point, Jordy. But the fuel would still get stale…and the boredom would still be present…and could one person supply all H.G.’s fuel needs? But H.G. would only have one top-of-the-line human fuel source…and I don’t know how long he could go without a human fuel source.
Dani hi:)) I think I proposed a crass scenario there, the more I think about it… But now I must think it till the end.
„They don’t know that their fuel is becoming stale or that they cease giving as much as the narcissist needs.“
So in a one on one ’stuck on an island’ – there is no other option available for the Ultra, except just this one empath, thus the question would be: What is un-stale Fuel?
In other words: how do both of them would need to adapt to each other, in order to survive without going mad (or dead).
The fuel-matrix would have to be adapted to one empath and the island-fuel (living nature fuels too, as it serves the survival) and that may create a different outcome compared to what usually would occur. (Or what we/ I think occurs. We don’t know actually. Could be anything by now, given the fact that the Ultra evolves each second, due to information and awareness.)
If the empath would happen to be just one available source of human-fuel, a measurement of balance in that regard would have to be applied, if we don’t want to burn out the empath just within one year or two. Because we don’t know when the rescue team would manage to show up. We don’t hope or rely on the team to come. We act and survive. Either by telling the empath what is what, or not telling and still survive. Both is possible I think.
„I don’t think that empaths intentionally wound as long as they aren’t being abused…but it can still happen.“ — Me too, think this.
But they also don’t know the rules of what has the potential to wound unintentionally and how this whole thing works. So basically the whole N/P-topic would have to be explained and understood by the empath in order to deal with the situation, in a one on one – stuck on an island, scenario. If we pre-assume that the narcissistic construct would remain the same on this occasion. Since „the world“ falls away, the demands, the usual operating systems and environment.
To tell the empath what is what, would that be a transference of power? Yes. But if power is knowledge and understanding is shared in this instance, does it also transfers back to the Ultra and would make him even more powerful? Empaths understand and live power differently…
…
Power Corrupts…
Knowledge is Power…
Knowledge Sets You Free…
…
If this is true. What is inevitable? !
…
It would be a testing situation for the empath. Just as the Ultra is testing Humanity.
…
But it’s even more complex and I can’t formulate it…
Maybe you can see it…
“What is un-stale Fuel?
“In other words: how do both of them would need to adapt to each other, in order to survive without going mad (or dead).”
Unstale fuel…a variety of emotional reactions provided by a range of appliances…unfortunately, in this case, there is but one appliance…so changing the emotional reaction would change the type of fuel…thus making it fresh and scrumptious for the Ultra. Presumably as fuel grows stale, Mr. Tudor would get up to tricks…his devious mind would have to connive ways to mess with the empath without inadvertently disadvantaging himself. It seems like more destructive behavior would be off the table…but I suppose he could stash food away and blame the empath for being lazy and not gathering enough or eating too much and not caring about his needs without causing too many problems…I’m sure there are plenty of ways he could think of to gaslight and mess with an empath, any empath…but how much could he mess with them before they shut down or decided he was too much trouble.
But they also don’t know the rules of what has the potential to wound unintentionally and how this whole thing works. — Unless they do…imagine the Ultra vs the top empath Tudorite…my money is on Mr. Tudor…everything they know he taught them…but I doubt he’s taught anyone everything he knows…even if they uncovered his real identity…I think their gratitude would keep them around, and then they might try to have a discussion:
Empath: “Mr. Tudor, we need to talk about this disturbing absent silent treatment…”
HG (imperiously): “I’m Richard Ignatius George Hadrian Trunchbull as you well know, and you are Wendy Rachael Olivia Nicole Graham.”
No way to know what would play out…it would greatly depend on what type of empath he found himself with and what their base knowledge was…but Mr. Tudor frequently explains that he won’t take actions that would transfer power to someone else. But in the extreme situation…if the empath threatened to leave him…or worse treacherously abandoned him…I still think he’s more likely to try to charm them back with charm and future faking…rather than the truth.
I add what about the other male narcs and psychopaths who also want the empaths. How do they deal with each other? And what happens when the empaths cultivate communities, religions, libraries, charities, social programs , education for all and law enforcement. Empaths build communities. This utopia is looking more and more like the real world lol
We can also consider this one moment; how does the master teacher prove that he is a master? By the result of his apprentice.
The master on his part must not have any mercy or indulge the apprentice. The victory must be earned for real.
Comment from the archives:
HG: “You cannot detach from the emotional sea, you have to cross it. Swimming will not work. You will drown. You need a vessel, a vessel forged from logic and understanding that will withstand the tempest, the storms, the tidal waves and tsunamis. Your vessel will be broken, it will sink and you will drown but then you will aim to build a bigger vessel, a better vessel and you will repeat the process until one day you cross that sea. It may take one attempt, it may take a hundred, but it can be done even with me as the kraken waiting to wrap a tentacle around you and drag you down into the foaming emotional brine once again.”
I maintain…it would be far worse for the entire community to try to abandon Mr. Tudor…than to let him stay…I also think that Mr. Tudor would understand just how far he could push and whom he could push without causing massive problems for himself…and there would be still be the other narcissists (mostly lower echelons) amongst the community causing more mayhem with haphazard ways. Mr. Tudor could easily set them up as a patsy…
„it would be far worse for the entire community to try to abandon Mr. Tudor“ ― oh I was in a one on one scenario within all my examples, not a community. I don’t get the „abandon“ move either. Transference of power would not result in abandonment in how I imagine it. But with adaptation. Peacefully, I guess.
It’s a fun scenario to consider isn’t it? I go back and forth on it in terms of how I think HG might manipulate but also amend the way he views his fuel matrix. Really an IPPS just makes fuel harvesting easier. It’s like going to a supermarket for your weekly shop rather than independent shops that specialise in one item. 50% of the fuel requirement is filled by just one person, leaving HG to go to specialist ‘shops’ for specialist secondary requirements. It’s saves time and energy and technically is a ‘safe’ 50%.
I think the fuel matrix is key to the desert island dilemma. I think it would change structure. All are in close proximity, so, the fuel intake could readily come from secondary sources almost as easily as from the Primary. The Primary source has higher potency fuel, however is that simply because of proximity, ease of access and familiarity thus heightened emotional reactions? There might be less need for an IPPS at all on a desert island. If there was no IPPS but rather proximate secondary sources, there would be less risk of stale fuel. An IPPS might actually pose more risk in that scenario. HG views sex as a tool so would there be an IPSS? Several? How would other males view HG working his way through the female population?! How would the physical need for intimacy rank against a safer non intimate fuel supply that doesn’t turn stale?
Yes, I imagined a representative sample of the population on the desert island. I didn’t go as detailed as to narc or empath school and cadres but you’re right in that this would likely impact how HG was viewed.
Assuming current fuel matrix structure. I think knowledge of narcissism would be less relevant on the island. If HG was devaluing an IPPS, he lacks privacy to do that covertly. Isolation would be difficult to achieve also as you said. I think it’s more likely that the IPPS would communicate her devaluation to others, or others would find out, therefore making it increasingly difficult to recruit a replacement IPPS. The devaluation would need to be far less harsh, certainly by the time HG was on IPPS 2 or 3. Yes, HG would have useful skills that might offset expulsion for not playing nice but overall I would estimate the group would operate on a less hierarchical structure, harmony would be key, and if one male is getting too much power or too many women, the other males aren’t going to take kindly to him. Would he take a male IPPS? fuel needs must, so it’s possible but I think it’s unlikely given HG’s skill set, Haha!
HG would likely be viewed more positively if there was an outside threat to the group. That might nudge a more hierarchical structure that would suit him.
Agree, I hadn’t considered fury but it would be a problem. How to contain it when releasing it would destroy the facade? HG’s already iron grip on his ignited fury would need to be entirely trigger proof. That would be less straight forward when appliances are not selected but are instead dealt out via the desert island situation.
So for me, in the desert island scenario the fuel matrix is key. It would need a complete rethink. Secondary source fuel would likely be upgraded whilst primary source fuel would likely be downgraded. There would be no tertiary source fuel available within that population size, all would be secondary sources with or without a primary.
Control needs to be considered too, it’s still simpler to control one person (IPPS) than many people. So the IPPS role might still be valid. That said, in such close proximity, control would need to be asserted widely anyway and a group of women might actually be easier to control if there was no IPPS.
I’m getting dizzy here!
If there are 100 people, it’s also possible HG isn’t the only psychopath. Now that would be interesting to watch! My money is definitely on HG there!
Also HG did a recent you tube on a contagian empath meeting a psychopathic narc in a Forrest, he breezes past her. So would contagians just be left in cave on the island making healing herbs and gardening? Lol
Indeed! The Contagion Empath Senses Darkness – it was a very interesting one…
Hmmm let’s see, perhaps something a bit of this, how she sensed.
„The encounter“; when the air starts to vibrate; an uncontrollable dizziness and spiraling; and the sudden inability to move out of the ’standing in the eye of the storm’ as monstrous waves of darkest-awe-and-power are crushing against her ship; and she know – she must erase the memory of this unforgettable presence, mixed with the realisation – this unusual voice MUST be heard, because it will tell her what she need to hear and what she must know and never forget; mixed with her ability to ’stand in the shoes of this „inhuman“ presence – which is the mirror/ the emptiness and the darkness at the same. One of the both would have been easier, but there are two… No, three…
Not that simple at all, what the C-empath must have sensed there.
This is why I feel for your kind and why they’re able to ensnare me so easily. I have empathy for a large range of people, animals and I act on the empathy and do for them, fix their problems, pay for their debts, help them with their alcohol problem, take them in and get taken advantage of by family, not once, but three times….yeah, my heart is my weakest link and it’s gotten me in more trouble than a dog in heat, in a den of wolves.
I feel for your kind and the last person I think of is me, or used to be. Now, I choose who is in my life. Xx
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“It’s a fun scenario to consider isn’t it?” — Very fun.
“There might be less need for an IPPS at all on a desert island. If there was no IPPS but rather proximate secondary sources, there would be less risk of stale fuel.” — The IPPS has a number of residual benefits beyond sex, proximity and more potent fuel, higher tolerance for negative behaviors…and I think the need for negative fuel would arise…to say nothing of if the malice comes on. I feel like there would still be prime aims necessitating an IPPS. I think it likely that there would be. And several DLSs.
“How would other males view HG working his way through the female population?!” — If HG charms all the women (not necessarily in a sexual way, but I could see him doing helpful things to keep them on side with him)…what are the men going to do about it without angering the women? And I don’t think he would alienate all the men. He needs them to dig latrines and such…as if he would do such dirty work…
“How would the physical need for intimacy rank against a safer non intimate fuel supply that doesn’t turn stale?” — Would he need to be around them more because potency would be reduced? And being around them more leads to increased risk of fuel becoming stale. Sex is pretty much the most potent fuel there is, from what I understand. I feel like based on what I know of him, he would not readily give it up.
“Yes, I imagined a representative sample of the population on the desert island. I didn’t go as detailed as to narc or empath school and cadres but you’re right in that this would likely impact how HG was viewed.” — HG has top-notch facade management. I think he would be seen and thought well of by the majority…if he’s never publicly caught and manipulates the empath/his haters into losing their cool with him publicly after he has set a trap and captured a wild pig that was devouring pineapple fields and then made sure there was a public pork rotisserie style feast…what’s everyone to think?
“I think knowledge of narcissism would be less relevant on the island.” — I disagree. If just one empath on the island had benefited from the blog/YouTube channel(s)/books/consultations…and they recognized HG (because they are top of the class/star pupil)…what would they do? Traitorously turn on HG who did so much good for them…or become his biggest defender…could that empath truly encourage abandoning HG to a fuel free existence? I don’t think they would. I feel like the consequences for the empath and the community would be bad…far worse than letting him stay and not kicking up a fuss…or maybe they should kick up a fuss to make sure he gets lots of fuel…difficult to say. Say the 100 ended up on the island when their cruise ship sinks and they are two lifeboats that made it…and Mr. Tudor is there…and this empath who went through numerous consultations with him…and he helped them protect their child from the abusive narcissist ass-hat.
“If HG was devaluing an IPPS, he lacks privacy to do that covertly.” — it might simply be that more cold fury silent treatments occur. It might be that it manifests more as whispered threats. I’m sure that HG could find a way to modify the “terrifying car drive” scenario to be terrifying walk through the jungle to a cliff by a waterfall where they aren’t thrown in but they are trapped and unable to leave.
“Isolation would be difficult to achieve also as you said. I think it’s more likely that the IPPS would communicate her devaluation to others, or others would find out, therefore making it increasingly difficult to recruit a replacement IPPS.” — But who would be believed…I agree it would be problematic by the time multiple women are singing the same song. That’s why I think he would be more cautious. Of course, HG might choose to devalue in such a way as to ensure that the current IPPS remained unaware of it.
“Yes, HG would have useful skills that might offset expulsion for not playing nice but overall I would estimate the group would operate on a less hierarchical structure, harmony would be key, and if one male is getting too much power or too many women, the other males aren’t going to take kindly to him.” — How could HG be blamed for multiple women preferring his company to the other men? Some women are attracted to the super-villain type…I think he would keep enough men on side that the few who moaned miserably about him would look like the problems…
“HG would likely be viewed more positively if there was an outside threat to the group. That might nudge a more hierarchical structure that would suit him.” — And he would NEVER engineer the appearance of an outside threat to become Island King…and have an empaths argue over whose turn it is to fan him with a palm leaf…
“If there are 100 people, it’s also possible HG isn’t the only psychopath. Now that would be interesting to watch! My money is definitely on HG there!” — It would be interesting so long as the other psychopath is of similar intelligence…or completely terrifying…I agree…I’m team HG.
Regarding the discussion about earth’s natural resources being saved & the planet allowed to return to “goodness” for all life. It cannot be done. Too many toxins in places around the world. Can AI seriously “rid” the planet of the radiation on land, and the disposals of toxins that humans have dumped into the oceans? The wildlife returning to locations ie Chernobyl, are they toxin free? Lots of variables.
Aspi, yes! Radiation waste is pain in the back…I don’t know how, but thankfully some outdoor Chernobyl areas seem to recover. Wildlife is active again. The planet’s will is strong. But it will take time for the planet to recover. And certain societal mindset must continue to change further. This topic get me going, bear with me🐻!
As TS mentioned previously „water“ is one of the main issues. The war for freshwater would be the epitome of degradation of the society.
The planet can continue without passengers if they remained unwilling to adapt in nature’s cycles and certain people know and understand this. But still people cannot process that freshwater reservoirs are emptying and how it all connects. That it’s the lifestyle of the civilisation as a whole, which is causing the problem and they’re all in the same boat.
The planet has the same amount of water and it remains the same. How come, freshwater is disappearing if the water cycle is a sealed cycle? The answer is visible for everyone to see: the freshwater is pumped out rapidly on a massive scale, lavishly used and exported in to the ocean. Secondly, where forests are not present anymore – the earth’s SAVING water function is simply brought to an end. Trees and their long-reaching roots, the airy humus/ insect’s tunnels etc, are the rain-water-highways and simultaneously; the roots are the pumping systems, enabling groundwater in diverse earth layers to collect, for diverse plants with shorter and longer roots below and above, for insects, animals, humans (water springs etc). Forests, trees absorb CO2 from the atmosphere in to their bark; regulate the weather, the climate, all life in general.
Where planet’s ground is covered in cement and stone, rainwater can’t reach down inside the ground. It can’t collect and fill up groundwater reservoirs. The humans contribute to their demise by forest-extinction, monoculture, extinction of bio diversity on land, air and sea; heavy agriculture vehicles and global livestock farming – compacting the ground and thus prevent the sponge-function of the ground i.e. the rainwater to permeate.
Only long-term solutions of self-sustaining nature, to repair the damage where it was manmade, would allow humanity to remain. Only in unity with nature. Whenever humans would check out of this bond; they degenerate and destruct their source of life, yet calling it progress.
Jordyguin, thank you for your reply. It was interesting to read and I agree on what you have said. Part of the issue is narcissists may have too much power (money orientated on owning some of these lands / water companies etc) rather than putting the emphasis on saving water (ie burst water pipes, maintenance of such etc) yet they impose (quite correctly to a degree) hosepipe bans. HG has correctly suggested that having some narcissists in power are not necessarily bad because empaths may think with their emotions more. Prince William’s ‘EarthShot’ Project is great because it’s approach is for everybody / the planet not as ie a privately owned water company. Despite all that, there is too much toxic waste that cannot be eradicated / recycled, hence the mention of Chernobyl.
Thank you Aspi:)) Apparently there is a solution found on nuclear waste decay time shortage in Belgium. A conversion into less and less radiating isotopes, which would lead to 200-300 years instead of 25 000- 200 000. Our present aim is of course not to add to the waste piles of all kind and to reduce as much as possible. I absolutely don’t want to envision to have to go into space in a Wall-e scenario, where the Earth decayed completely and technology was used to tidy up the mess of mankind. That level of destruction would not let any species survive however. They presented the solution just within a technological and AI approach and it was a manipulative move, whilst sensible nature based solutions were not presented. Also spaceship-born mankind – I don’t believe that humans would actually survive in space for that long, without suffering major deficits and succumb to them. There is too much in play for the physiology and psychology, where we need all facets of the planet’s environment to develop in to healthy beings. But Wall-e on the other hand did a good job on presenting the fatal hell of waste if mankind don’t re-think on this problem. Thus it was helpful in that sense.
Jordyguin, thank you for that explanation. At present, 90% of UK’s river habitats are affected by raw sewerage and farming pollution (The Guardian 12 Aug 2023). Humans would take many years to evolve in order to survive as a species to live in space. Even if humans were to move to another planet, there would still be power / control ‘clashes’ yet pollution may not reach the same levels as it has on Earth. It is the ‘now’ that matters and some ‘wrongs’ can be ‘corrected’ immediately but requires a ‘collective’ to work together and to act on it. At present, too many politicians are “working” on entirely different ‘aims’ rather the same objective, despite attending summits and saying ‘yes’. It’s partly why I mentioned Prince William’s project previously, he does not get involved in politics, despite the ‘agenda’ (objective) being the same (saving the planet), his ‘route’ does not necessarily involve conflict, nor create it.
Thank you Aspi! I agree with you:) My support in general lies with Prince William, more than with any other politician on this planet!! Whatever may result out of that dynasty may actually change the course of it all. I’m very optimistic about their and Prince William leadership and impact on the world!♡
Dear HG, if for argument’s sake we were to operate under the assumption that after the collapse of the construct you would not cease to exist and instead somehow emerge as this new person we are fantasising about. That still leaves the problem of the necessary steps before that could happen. Not only would you have to consciously decide to embark on this journey, very tempting I’m sure – not, but in my opinion as a prerequisite there would need to be a sustained situation which leads the narcissism to the conclusion that it is not only safe, but advantageous to completely switch itself off. Under which conditions would such a tried and tested self-defence mechanism decide to just kill itself off because it considers itself superfluous? I do not see military alliances such as NATO scrambling to disband just because Russia has not attacked any neighbour for two years, which is of course a stretch at the present time. It does not suffice for you to want to change. You would need an accord of the conscious and subconscious mind that this world is so peaceful and safe, and guaranteed to stay that way, that there are huge gains and no risks to such an endeavour. I cannot speak for you or others, but to me it seems that we are nowhere near this world. Regrettable as it is for the rest of us, I do not see a compelling case for the narcissism to abolish itself outside of a fantasy world.
It would not do so.
Then you will always be protected, even if from time to time your “bodyguard” can appear somewhat overzealous from our point of view.
Anna Plyance, hi! „The Introduction to the Creature“ gave an insight in to the interesting stuff you’re contemplating about. (just in case you haven’t checked it out yet) HG stayed out of fuel for a time period in order to record that. It was a fantastic eye opener!
In general, it occurred to me that ’narcissist’s fluidity’ (which is a magnificent ability in itself!) needs a specific strong ’point of reference’ otherwise they would lose everything, just as they did when the construct had to emerge. To create a new point of reference, maybe..?… maybe to jump even farther..? Who knows what’s possible…
Hello Jordyguin!
Since I have not been around KTN for long, I have not yet read “The Creature”, but I will be certain to do it. Regarding a “point of reference”, I am afraid that I cannot yet offer anything sensible on the topic at this point, so I am going to keep my mouth shut for now.
Hi Anna,
Your thinking here is interesting. How to disable the defence mechanism. It’s a little like fear / anxiety, fear was more useful when we had sabre toothed tigers running around and lived off the land. Far less useful now, but we haven’t evolved quickly enough to adapt to our changing environment.
I don’t believe there will ever be a time where narcissism has a cure. Unaware narcissists will never ever change. They might claim to have changed, they won’t. Unaware is unaware, their narcissism will never allow them to change even if they are told what they are. The narcissism will never allow them the true awareness of what they are.
If we were looking at an aware narcissist, even then, they are aware to an extent that they have a need for control. They are aware also I think that they get a ‘buzz’ from adoration or admiration. They are aware that they get a ‘buzz’ out of destroying someone, seeing them cry, fall apart, lose control etc. I’m not certain that they could fully explain how their narcissism functions though, what it actually is that drives them and precisely why.
HG is aware, fully aware, but, like the Greaters he would see no reason to change. He is effective as he is, can’t disagree with him there. He is protected against the cruel world he inhabits. Can’t disagree with him there either. So for HG to want to disable his narcissism even intermittently, he would need a water tight reason to attempt it. It isn’t going to be based on ‘the right thing to do’ or finding emotional empathy at the back of his knicker drawer.
Who is going to prove the benefits of disabling his narcissism? If HG is face to face with the good doctors then his narcissism demands he controls them. He’s paying lip service to therapy, he isn’t invested, has his own agenda there and it isn’t to do with therapy or becoming a ‘good’ guy.
All of that stated, I do believe that HG wants to be understood. Remaining anonymous facilitates that. It’s no threat to control to share thoughts if no one knows who you are. There’s likely far more honesty in the pages of the blog than there would ever be in a session with the good doctors for that very reason. So, step one, therapy would need to be anonymous and with someone who understands narcissism and psychopathy as well as he does. We might be struggling there.
There is still a degree of flexibility within HG’s narcissism in my view though.
Threats to control. There’s flexibility here. The narcissist receives threats to control during the golden period too. The narcissism essentially downgrades the threat. It prioritises the acquisition of the new primary source over the threat to control. The higher echelon narcissists would not be in the least bit threatened during this golden period. Their focus is on embedding the source and extracting the positive fuel, so, the narcissism has the capacity to prioritise based on the immediate requirement of the host. Threat is not always viewed as threat if the narcissism is focussed elsewhere on a more pressing objective.
The facade. The Greater will not easily damage his own facade when met with a threat to control. Again, the narcissism prioritises the facade as being of greater long term importance than putting down the threat to control in that moment. HG will have an iron grip on his ignited fury. It will probably be used as a weapon more often than a defence. He’ll likely choose to show it on occasion but it will be choice not instinct.
The Greater ‘makes a note’ to exact revenge for the threat to control at a later date. This is a choice, to me it is nothing to do with a defence mechanism. The threat has already passed, the Greater is in a different moment, day, week or month when he exacts revenge. That’s malice and that’s a choice. Nothing to do with the narcissism itself.
Risk of exposure. If HG was confined to an island with 100 people, his narcissism would have to adapt to meet his needs. How many intimate partners could be devalued before the remainder of potential targets cottoned on? How long before the rest of the group expelled him? Not long. So here, I would estimate that the narcissism would have to adapt to accommodate circumstances i.e remaining in one area for an extended period. The golden period would have to be extended. Disengagement triggers would need to be disarmed. Fuel becoming stale is the largest problem here. The narcissism would have to recognise an additional less demonstrative facet to fuel than it does currently.
Fury for me is the greatest issue. The desire to punish. In the book Fury, HG lists a variety of causes that feed in to his Fury. This makes sense, a variety of things make me angry, not just one. However, if I look back at my emotional detachment from my mum, there’s plenty of reasons I could give that contributed to that decision, but, there’s one scene that stands out. The tipping point, the key driver. To my mind, the fury comes from primarily one scene. Whether that scene could ever be addressed and the fury quelled to something less destructive is beyond my ability to even guess.
There is flexibility within HG’s narcissism in my opinion. I don’t believe it would be disabled entirely, it’s part of who he is, similar to the empath’s addiction. I’ll never lose the addiction to narcissists but I can manage it. There might be opportunity to amend the management of his narcissism differently based on circumstance, necessity but mostly the will to do so. My money would be on grandiosity being the driver for that.
With HG being both psychopath and narcissist, there might also be a point where the psychopathy views the narcissism as a disadvantage / risk factor / threat to success. This would again provide motivation for the narcissism to be managed differently.
It’s a massive endeavour, but if motivation was there I don’t see it as being impossible, not with that level of intellect.
Xx
TS, loved reading this…
Had similar contemplations regarding the island. In my version only two people. The Narc Lagoon.
„or finding emotional empathy at the back of his knicker drawer.“
lol
If Rose and Jack had the knicker drawer instead of that narc door!
Hey Jordyguin,
I like to ponder things, break puzzles down into smaller pieces and ask, “Ok, for arguments sake, if we were to do this differently, where would we start? Doesn’t matter if it seems impossible, just where is the wiggle room?”
I hadn’t seen your comment about narc island. That’s funny you should think along the same lines!
At one point we all lived in ‘bands’. Bands were around 80 people max. Later the flat hierarchical structures of the bands changed to the more pyramid like hierarchical structures we have today. Equal distribution of power and resources doesn’t work as numbers grow.
There will have been narcissists and psychopaths emerging naturally in the bands, but the group dealt with those who sought too much power. They were killed and with them their genetic predisposition for narcissism would be lost from the gene pool.
So some narcissists must have adapted to exist successfully within bands. Once hierarchical structures changed, bows and arrows arrived, land was an asset used for farming then there were things to fight about. Wars were fought, leaders emerged, power was fine then as long as your chieftain was winning. Narcissists and psychopaths could reveal themselves more freely and would have started to claim positions of power, their blood lines along with them. This hasn’t really changed unless you live in the Amazon rainforest. Here the hierarchical structure is still flat, interesting.
At some point though narcissism must have had to adapt to its environment. In some ways it’s an adaptation in and of itself. Adaptations change in line with changes in environment so my thinking is that narcissism can’t be fully fixed in how it manifests. It has to have a degree of malleability. It does I suppose, there are differences between and within schools. Narcissism is fixed within the fibre of the host, but my thinking is more around the degree of flexibility within the narcissism itself and what benefits such flexibility might bring.
I need to get out more haha!
TS, hi!
„…if we were to do this differently, where would we start? Doesn’t matter if it seems impossible, just where is the wiggle room?“
Perfect questions!
We’re exactly at this point in time. We can’t go back to the jungle and can’t continue to destroy our habitat and ourselves.
When the water on the planet becomes more and more polluted and undrinkable with each new cycle – the society is not moving up but down on the evolutionary scale. The health of the soil and water are the clues for degradation where „advanced“ technologies plays a part in it.
I’m not fully against technologies. But because things are possible or done with those technologies, doesn’t mean they are evolutionary. Whilst technology „evolve“ humans also degrade.
To use the technology in a way of repairing the damage it created – would be one of the steps to do something differently.
…
I too would like to read or listen to those manifests HG spoke about to Doug!
Hi Jordyguin,
When the water on the planet becomes more polluted and more scarce, this would result in war. The only way to avoid that I think is for technology to intervene.
I have read a few more scientific ideas that sound promising when it comes to global warming. The idea of creating a shield in our atmosphere being one that I thought wasn’t quite as crazy as it first appeared.
AI might well provide answers, but AI itself poses its own risks. Call me naive but creating a self aware system that is brighter than the brightest human, can write its own code and communicate it throughout the entirety of a network in seconds, doesn’t fill me with confidence for a bright future. Maybe I just read too many apocalyptic novels!
Like you, I hope that eventually we use our technological muscle to repair and protect as opposed to using it to seek and destroy.
Xx
I’m with you on the AI-topic, TS. It’s truly unsafe and the reason some developers steer back on it. I guess some of the future „solutions“ would nevertheless be stemming from AI calculations and thus to take under the humane-microscope more carefully.
The idea of creating a shield in our atmosphere, is not the best and there are easier and far better options to regulate the climate.
The technological mechanical solution would be for instance, to first of all stop the extinction of forests. To recreate mixed-forests instead of monoculture forests and recreate natural habitats on the ruins of the manmade dead soils of agriculture around the world, in order to regulate the weather and climate. One paper and the „war money“ are redirected for this causes instead. Forests can grow very fast with terraforming and water management.
Permaculture based agriculture should be achieved. The health of the soil, the groundwater, insects and animals should be in the main focus. The balanced Permaculture based solution don’t allow vermin’s increase/overpopulation and reduce the necessity for toxic pesticides, which poisons the groundwater and extinct insects, birds and species.
Pros who care about people and nature should be the decision makers on regenerating the soil and water. And not hindered by corporations and such. Money makers should switch to a humane money investment and view their impact in a bigger picture approach.
The natural world exists out of cycles of regeneration and rebirth. It is a perfect and sealed process. Our modern day technology and its end products exists on dead ends and produce dead ends for organic life; swallowing up earth’s resources and can’t fit in to the natural organic cycles. To reduce the circulation of toxic technology and its end products, by choice, should be achievable for any type of intelligent individual, I think.
Hi Jordyguin,
Totally agree with you, the natural systems in place do work until they are exploited by humankind.
I agree also that there are natural ways to rectify the problem. Your rainforest and soil examples are again accurate and productive solutions.
Where I think we differ is whether we view these solutions as viable when in order for them to work, really a multinational approach would need to be agreed upon and adhered to. Here I lose faith entirely. Too many back handers, too much empire building. Often it’s economy versus climate, or it’s short term versus long term and even taking narcissists out of the picture, self interest tends to win out. It shouldn’t, but it does.
An example would be a subsistence farmer clearing a patch of rainforest to feed his family. He isn’t interested in saving the planet, he’s interested in the now problem, feeding his family. I recognise that the subsistence farmer isn’t the largest problem, global corporations have greater impact, world governments, but that mindset is also motivating voters. In all honesty, the subsistence farmer is just doing his best, but his motivation is his family not climate change.
I turn to technology more as hopefully identifying another solution not because I think the natural approach to fixing climate change is ineffective, but rather I view mankind as inherently selfish and short termist. I can’t envisage humans committing themselves fully to saving the planet. I can’t envisage them ever finding an agreement or common approach. All in all our views are similar but our faith in humankind I think differs.
I hope you are right though, I really do. I hope humankind raises its game and my view of humanity is simply jaded and without foundation.
Xx
Hi TS
I totally agree with your comments. But I think there may be a shining light in the younger generation who’ve grown up with the idea of Climate Change and see it as a problem that must be tackled, while previous generations were generally brought up to believe in economical and commercial advancement and addressing the consequences of that advancement were only introduced later. I’m optimistic that this will make a difference as these generations start to run the world. Whether it will be a bit too late – perhaps – but I think it will help slow and reduce the changes.
Truthseeker: great response! But how far back does the narc gene go? It could lie dormant then given the right circumstances ( unstable environment) arise. I wonder if it was in every species not just human sapiens. ?There are 7-8 known species of “ man” today. Hominids. The Nethandronthals were said to be gentler and thus exterminated by Homo sapiens in fact historically percentage wise, the largest genocide in mankind was the Homo sapiens killing off Nethandrothals. And why in those rainforests did you mention the gene did not arise …was there a better controlled nurturing environment? And where does this narc gene come from, I once read it was the warrior gene. From the beginning in evolution? Or is it sin? Evil? All we know based on current science that 6%+ have it and it’s growing. Psychopaths are 1% but in the USA it is estimated 25% have it in prison. Is that because we got better at understanding the brain? And why are so many psychopaths caught and in prison? I think that there are classes of psychopaths that HG will educate us on later ie antisocial personality disorder, sadists, arsonists, pedophiles….So many questions. …
TS hi:)) oh yes the farmer who isn’t interested in saving the planet, he’s interested in the now problem, clearing a patch of rainforest to feed his family — he probably can’t see how feeding his family NOW may be the cause for the ’end game’ of his family later down the line, IF every farmer would continue to behave as he does.
The society was not ultimately trained to think in long-term, self-sustaining solutions as it was not required previously. The bare necessity and catastrophic outcomes are the ’forcing to change’ factors. For instance agro forestry, regenerative agriculture and forest farming are now successfully put in to effect in different countries.
I’m sure you know this trick: how to find a correct solution is; to imagine the thought or the action would be carried out by every human on the planet, magnify, and realise the outcome it would create – makes the value of the thought or action visible, helps to decide to take it or not. „If everyone on the planet would do this, what would be the outcome?“ should be asked each time as we are about to manifest something in thought or action. And it would mean to 100% concentrate on our small circle, direct environment and on solutions of co-creative, long-term, self-sustaining, nature. Where we change or create something within our minor or major possibilities, is all that is required. Thus the change is actually simple.
The pioneers continuously present and implement solutions. Humanity is informed and is given a selection to chose from, where to apply one’s effort and impact on the survival of the bio-diversity whilst it is linked to the survival of human species.
Those rare individuals, HG wrote about in „Humanity“, those who swim against the prevailing tide – it is their impact which magnifies as their intention is to co-exist with the planet, with nature and in balance within the humane of the human. This people feel it and know it consciously or subconsciously and are directing their attention purposefully on their small steps. Their intent prevails as it connects to the intent of this magnificent Earth. They are the source of optimism and inspiration :)♡
Hi Jordyguin,
Yes totally right, people aren’t used to thinking long term whether that be to do with the environment or their credit card bill! In the grand scheme of things the climate problem is a relatively new concern.
I think you’re right also in terms of small changes on a large scale would have considerable impact. Changes have to be affordable too, increases in costs of electricity can push someone below the poverty line and globally I think this is also a large part of the problem. I saw a really surprising statistic the other day. Something like 50% of the global population doesn’t have access to affordable electricity. Until that changes poor countries will remain poor and whilst they remain poor, their populations will live hand to mouth. They will access their fuel however they can get it and that won’t be beneficial for the environment at all. I have to have faith that brighter minds than mine will find the solution to what is a multi layered problem. A solution though, a change, has to be better than no change, particularly if it’s realistic for large numbers of people to implement.
As an aside, in terms of easy wins, one thing that shocked me in the US was soft drinks packaging. Flavoured non fizzy drinks that are already water diluted, ready to pour. How is that even permitted?! The brand was Welch’s I think, something like that. That’s massive amounts of plastic per family household! Why aren’t they sold as concentrate that you dilute with water at home? Such an easy win in terms of reducing plastic waste. Mr Welch is obviously a narc and makes more profit selling case loads of diluted drinks than he would if he sold his sugary goodness as concentrate!
Xx
Hi Annaamel,
That’s a fair point too, the younger generation are definitely more aware. My concern there is the way that generation takes its information. Sound bite style. So in terms of deciding upon an approach that could fix the situation, my concern for them is that they won’t consider all of the information or all of the options. Global warming and its mitigation is big money, there will be narc decision makers involved there like anywhere else and it bothers me that that particular generation will go with the loudest voice and that voice might well be the most self serving.
I really do worry for my kids and what the world will look like when they are making the decision to have their own children or not. As it stands, if I had any influence on that decision at all (which I won’t have) I would advise against them having their own children. We are ten years off that decision minimum so maybe things will improve during that time. Strangely, I think a lot will become clear in the next ten years but I do think that mine is the last generation that will experience ‘ a good life’. I have never felt so disillusioned with the world as it stands currently and I see it getting worse, not better. Too much power held by too few and a population that seems intent on wasting their intellect on reality tv, influencers and the latest TikTok trend.
I’m such a little ray of sunshine today aren’t I? Haha!
Xx
Hi Contagious,
Homo Sapiens might have killed off Neanderthals, the two species interacted because I read that there is DNA evidence for both coded into our genes. This is a long way from my area of expertise but as far as I know, Neanderthals were suited to colder climates whereas Homo Sapiens were smaller, they invented basic tools such as needles so could make basic clothing, they established trade routes so would have done better in times of food scarcity and they invented bows and arrows. So the Neanderthals were outplayed but also there might have been an element of natural selection involved there also. As I said though, not my area of expertise at all. In terms of how far back the narc gene goes, personally I would imagine it to be present within these groups. If narcissism forms within LOCE I would imagine there was plenty of LOCE. Psychopaths would most likely have been around too, though with the differences in the psychopathic brain versus the neurotypical brain functioning I wonder how different the psychopath of then would be to the psychopath of today.
You raise interesting questions as to the percentages of psychopaths in prisons as opposed to percentage of the population as a whole. Hare formulated his PCL R test based on the prison population, hardly a representative sample and since then there have been psychologists that have attempted to raise serious concerns about the validity of that test. Two psychologists Skeem and Cooke wrote a paper raising concerns about the test, the paper passed peer review, but Haare threatened a law suit against them for allegedly misrepresenting his work. They were challenging the idea that criminality is central to psychopathy. After much lobbying by Hare the paper was never published.
Hare himself has raised concerns that the PCL R test is being administered by untrained psychologists without the understanding to interpret the results, results which are then often relied upon in court for sentencing and parole. The PCLR was never designed to serve this purpose and yet it’s used and regularly. So in terms of a psychopathy checklist, Hare’s is definitely shady in my view and he guards his money maker aggressively. It would be interesting to know what Hare is himself. Narc, normal or narcissistic, unlikely to be a psychopath.
Not enough transparency around this subject for my liking. It’s a fairly safe bet there are psychopaths in prisons that don’t belong to the psychopath group at all.
Xx
TS
„I have never felt so disillusioned with the world as it stands currently and I see it getting worse, not better.“
And it is in exactly THIS where the unique opportunity comes with!
By getting worse it gets disillusioned and illusions are far more difficult to uphold. People can’t look away anymore as illusions covered up previously. It is part of healing, as with any strong disease, where it enters the organism invisibly and then flourish in all its “beauty” and then heal out and vanish.
“Too much power held by too few and a population that seems intent on wasting their intellect on reality tv, influencers and the latest TikTok trend.”
Perhaps we are observing „the leftovers“ demanding attention via the convulsions of what has already died and grip and pull whilst sliding in to the grave. The insanity of it all is too visible and I just want to take a step back, turn around and ’let it slide in to the grave’ and turn my attention else where, to what really matters and what is in the power of my hands directly.
„I think a lot will become clear in the next ten years but I do think that mine is the last generation that will experience ‘ a good life’.“
Lol indeed you are such a little ray of sunshine with that😅 Well perhaps the future generations will shake their heads at what we think ’a good life’ is.
💕
________
Another thing I wanted to ask you!
You shared somewhere else on the blog, that you dreamt of HG.
What was that dream?? How often do you dream it?
Hi Jordyguin,
I hope you get this, my notifications seem to have stopped for this thread.
I see your thinking, as things further deteriorate, the illusion or even glossing over of problems will become impossible to hide forcing people to take action when they might not currently be doing so. Add in Annamel’s point about the young being better educated and more aware of environmental issues and it is a more optimistic view than mine definitely, valid points I think.
I take your point also about contributing ourselves and worrying less about the apathy of others. I think I interpreted that correctly? You’re right, we can’t control others, only ourselves, so getting frustrated by the seeming lack of interest in important issues isn’t doing me any favours. You’re right, it isn’t, it’s making me dislike humankind more and more, that isn’t my usual way of being and it feels uncomfortable.
To your dream question. It wasn’t very detailed other than the fact I got a good look at HG.
I walked by HG sat at a table with three women in a upmarket bar. I turned and looked directly at him. I sensed it was him, didn’t show any recognition, turned away and kept walking. He saw me look at him and a minute later he appeared at my side and steered me out of the bar area. I picked up speed a little so he picked up speed to match my pace. We walked through two open doors and then we were running and jumping to various moving staircases suspended in black nothingness. I jumped, he jumped, still alongside still not saying anything. I wasn’t nervous, I wasn’t running to get away, more, half running to make the next jump, but he was still quietly matching my pace, still alongside. Eventually I just stopped on the staircase, turned to face him and said, “Stop.” Then I woke up.
That was pretty much it. No exciting plot, just a very clear image of what HG looked and felt like.
(I considered making it a bit juicier for entertainment purposes but decided to tell it as it was. Haha!)
Xx
TS, wow!!! That is a fantastic dream!!! Continue it!!! Dream it again!!!
Set an intent to meet HG again to continue to jump to other staircases! Count them. Do you have a number or a sense of the number of the staircases or stairs? What were you sensing they would lead you to? Was it him who pushed you to the „moving staircases suspended in black nothingness“ or was it you who guided him? Or did the staircases guide i.e. an outer source? What was the feeling? Was it day or night? How was the temperature? Was it still or loud, windy or not?
You turned and said “Stop” and immediately woke up – that’s a good hint of control in dreams. Intent to dream it again! Your dreaming body KNOWS how to do it. Let it do it by knowing that it knows. It may work with the same dream or there will be another.
Dreaming is not that difficult, especially for females who are with one foot in the realm of ’dreaming’ anyway, that’s why they usually don’t bother with this gift and dismiss it most of the time. Ask a male if he ’dreams’ and he will spark and shine about this one dream he had ten years ago and still remembers in detail. Males appreciate ’dreaming’ much more. Their energetic structure is slightly different. Male energy is different…We do complete each other in a far more interesting way than one would think…
Anyway, in dreams you’re correlating with fine energetic layers, time or rather un-time……the physical is not the only form, and not even the majority form of existence. It’s just the most dense form, that’s it.
There are doors into ’dreaming’ forged by your intent and your energy or rather the free amount of energy you may have for dreaming. Our full energy amount is occupied with upholding the daily problems, but in accordance with your psychological problem solving of your daily life — your energetic structure will upload the energy for dreaming. When one manages to solve their struggles (fears and such) of psychological nature during the day and don’t take these problems into dreaming, thus entering that door ’empty’ – that is where the fun begins.
Logic in waking life plays a huge part in ’dreaming’ because it creates a shield which transpires into dreaming and helps to maintain sobriety i.e. control of the dream and use this natural ability, which helps to connect the physical and the non-physical in order to have the more expansive experience.
You had a really interesting dream there, involving movement of “up”, I assume you moved up, or was it random? And numbers, stairs. There is a hint of couple things in it… Not to mention “the three that got away” sitting with HG at the start of it and you both walking through two open doors — this may be the two doors of narcissism and psychopathy which let you through…
Perhaps this dream occurred during a period of an energy-upload, which resulted from some problem-solving, freeing the energy. Really cool:))
Hello Truthseeker,
thank you for your comments. I am very much still a newbie here, so I cannot claim any sort of deeper knowledge in the way you old hands would have acquired it. But I think that motivation would be essential, and that is the first stumbling block right there. To quote from the 5 Central Questions: Why halt doing something that always delivers? (In an old thread, there was a comment that this sounded like addict thinking. To me it simply sounds like “Never change a winning team”.) Any promised gains would have to be guaranteed and outweigh the benefits of the current position exponentially, and then add to that the risks associated with such an endeavour – I don’t see it.
Even if there was the will/motivation, to me it seems doubtful that the narcissism could be tricked into sleep mode or anything similar. The whole purpose of the thing is to defend against threats, and any sort of therapy with the goal of change, i.e. stopping the narcissism, would be perceived as the ultimate threat and torpedoed by the narcissism. Probably the most that could be achieved would be a degree of regulating behaviours. But the basic setting of the narcissism, that everybody is out to get them, will still be there. And then there is the question of emotional empathy that would have to be learned from scratch…..
All of that is if you had a narcissist who wanted to change. Has anybody actually seen one of those or are they like the yeti?
When it comes to those not wanting to change or not knowing what they are, we have another issue. Outside of criminal behaviours, I do not assume that I have the right to demand of anybody else to change. I can only regulate my own reaction to their behaviour, whether to tolerate it, applaud it, stay or go. If I am involved with a narcissist, GOSO is the only option. Not just because I am unable to change that person, but also because I do not have the right to change him or her, just as he or she has no right to change me. That applies to HG as well, of course. He may treat his victims abominably, but unless that crosses certain boundaries, I do not see that I have any right to demand he change. If the victim tolerates it, that is their decision, however much HG might have screwed with their decision-making abilities. I have no jurisdiction over either of them. Would I want him to behave differently? Absolutely. Do I have the right to decide HG should change? Absolutely not.
Hi Anna,
Agree with your yeti analogy and your thinking as to there needing to be a distinct benefit to change. Something quantifiable and that begs the question if it hasn’t materialised up until now, why would it do so going forward?
There’s possibly a curiosity about change on HG’s part. Also a sense of being the first to achieve what other narcissists have not in terms of narcissism itself. The pitting of oneself against oneself as an intellectual exercise, that might hold some attraction for HG. Definitely a worthy opponent who wouldn’t be boring! Boredom is always a factor, something I can’t fully comprehend but it is a factor that comes up repeatedly. Would HG trial a different approach just to see if he can? There’s a grandiosity about that which kind of fits I think. I could see that being a motivation for change above anything else at this point.
In terms of unaware narcissists, change isn’t something I even consider. I agree in principle that I would have no right to demand change of another human being. I accept that HG is what he is, I might not endorse his behaviour in relation to his own relationships but on balance I would argue that he puts more good out into the world than bad, and, like it or not, the world does need dark to tackle the dark and it’s getting darker by the day as far as I can tell. As far as attempting to change the one remaining narcissist in my life, no point, I’m not interested enough.
Like everyone else I don’t like the thought of another empath suffering, going through worse than I went through, but I can’t change that outcome or influence it in any way. I can think about it though, look at possibilities, because at some point in the future, life might not look quite the same, motivations might change and I’m interested in pondering how that change might be effected if there was the will to do so.
Xx
Anna, hi. This point in your reply is interesting!
„But I think that motivation would be essential…“
As TS also mentioned: Motivation is curiosity! Aside other things, HG’s driver comes from fearlessness and curiosity; of absorbing and documenting information. The „mirror’s“ ability to get everything in the picture that is shown, in order to reflect impeccably — the source of the reflection. And the „disease“ which riddles is also a metaphysical one, as everything in reality. Interconnectedness of all „diseases“ in this dynamic plays a part. If we “heal” others may “heal” and vice versa.
The other thing I wanted to share was on sharks and orcas, you mentioned on some other thread. There is further information on this matter.
It is indeed an obscure fact that some orcas, being hyper intelligent, would hunt the great white just for their liver. Now timely I came across the information that there are sharks discovered with some orca-bite-marks, who somehow survived the attacks. So, what did they do to not succumb in the confrontation between this two species?
There is no documented evidence on this, just theories. And there is one, by a shark lover (not a shark scientist) which is quite interesting: The shark’s advantage would be to escape downward!
Quoting the theory:
Even if orcas are faster, bigger and hunt in groups (of two or more), yet their mammalian intelligence comes with a cost of them having to surface to get air. The maximum an orca can hold its breath is for about 15 minutes. Assuming it would need to swim the same speed up as it does back down; it can only dive for about 7 minutes. Plus the factor to consider that the orca would be more oxygen starved from chasing. An orca can go to max depth of about 1000m (3280ft). The great whites have been recorded at 1200m (3937ft) and here is where the advantage becomes clear. The shark just has to swim down for a few minutes and the orca will have to turn around (to get air) and then the shark can keep swimming deeper and just swim away.
Including a little time advantage needed for this maneuver to take place, on the shark’s side, the conclusion would be: maybe diving in a more vertical position for a few minutes is enough, when the shark try to swim away from the direction of attack.
Where the comparison falls with HG, would be — this ’creature’ was designed and also designed himself to find ways on how to survive and evolve. And we are talking about the King of the sea.
It should be mentioned that the fascination with the ’jaws’ for us comes also from the unsuspicious force of curiosity as well. Humans are designed in a way where there are also components, very powerful ones, not yet fully discovered, but subconsciously and consciously in development.
Wide open curiosity, unsuspiciousness, loving and forgiving nature of an empath – morphed with dangerous programming and addictions… And we don’t know who developed the „disease“ at first…Keeping all in mind will drive our introspection forward. To look at all fragments of truths. Interpretations. People interpret the truth of others mostly without ’being in their shoes’. (deep Contagion ability and understanding would change that of course)
It is a damn big ocean and only 20 percent of the sea is explored, mapped, seen. Kind of the same with humans capacity. It’s gonna be fascinating, scary, exiting, perhaps disappointing in some instances and surprising in other. We keep swimming, right.
And dolphins are whales! The empaths?
And dolphins are whales ? lol
Empaths? Hmmm given all information about dolphins at the moment, who knows? Males would kill a newborn calve in order to mate with their mother. Survival? I don’t know. Difficult to say.
Truthseeker! I just had to thank you for the detailed informative controversy regarding Hare. HG has not done classifications on psychopaths and from what I read it’s a greater/ultra blog. I feel that most in prison are anti- social personality disorder which I see differently from psychopaths. Just your basic criminals not following rules, norms and laws but without considering the big picture of “ beauty” “ power” or “ emptiness.” I also recall the top child psychologist telling me during the child custody dispute that criminals can make good fathers. ( She was partly right, he did ok with his 20%). I got 80% custody after my diagnosed ASPD ex sued me for full custody. He said I was delusional seeing things that weren’t there. Lol. Crimes. Drugs. Affairs. All in my head, right? Lol. But I was terrified as ASPD was also referred to as sociopath and psychopath. The sociopath Next Door book came out that year. I dove in. The child psychologist said not all psychopaths are sadists or bloodthirsty. So? HG? Are there classes? A difference between ASPD , sociopath, psychopath, sadist, arsonist, pedophile or serial killer? I think so. My ex was just an organized criminal. I don’t think he desired to rape, kill, torture, or burn anything. He had many traits described. Broken empathy, boredom, restlessness, limited emotion, goal seeking, no respect for laws, rules, norms. He doesn’t have friends. His few friends are “ connected” in NY and business. He plays poker and that’s his thrill. Gambling. Winning. Making money. He is psychotic about money. He hoards it like his family. They like to die rich. Not spenders really. My ex will drive in his rolls 45 minutes to buy used fruit for example. He cannot stand anyone making money off of him. His wives were all cheated on and he wants regular sex as a transaction I think to live in his mansions. He wanted many “ boys” got one. He favors my daughter as she is a super successful person who wants to make her own way. Strait As since birth, bright, compassionate and hardworking. She got a full blown scholarship to a great school in LA. She is computer science but I influenced her to study in Germany and get a film minor to balance out all the high math she says is easy but boring. She already has a 6 digit salary offered from an international company, the CTO offered it to her while in box seats watching Lebron James make history. I see her as a CEO as she has logic but compassion. She won’t alienate, she will rise. She once told me she would never b a doctor or a lawyer as she “ doesn’t want to take care of other peoples problems.” This would sound cold but she is an activist too and a loving daughter, sister and friend. I think she got the best of us. Her half siblings from him did not do as well. One is in and out of jail and drug rehabs. Her sister in and out of mental health facilities and on disability. I love them both and am in their lives hoping for better. All know they will inherit millions. Two are waiting for it. Not mine. Did my daughter inherit the narc gene but I was the one who prevented her from narcissism? I don’t know. I don’t know if she got the gene. She looks like my twin since birth. She lives like me but I see his influence. The way she carefully plans and considers things. Her business acumen. He takes total credit of course! Lol but the whole family credits me. Me? I don’t discredit his contribution….it’s interesting raising a child with a ASPD parent.
TS–
Just saw this. I am so fascinated by the scenario and observations here. Gives me so many questions…
“If HG was confined to an island with 100 people, his narcissism would have to adapt to meet his needs.” — Agreed. But that would depend on the general breakdown among the people there…are you assuming that they would match the general population…1/6 are narcs, 3/6 normals, and 2/6 are empaths. Furthermore…would the breakdown of schools similarly match the general percentages of narc schools/cadres and empath schools/cadres. Or would it be different? What if the island’s population was 99 empaths and one Ultra? Would this victim limit change the preferred school/cadre HG would target for an IPPS?
If we assume the island population matches the general population percentages:
With 99 potential victims and no way to communicate with those off the island…65/99 potential victims on the island are less susceptible, owing to their being normals/narcissists and 34/99 are empaths, if half the empaths 17/34 are male (something HG has repeatedly stated is not to his sexual tastes, and presumably, most of the male empaths would be straight if they match the general population percentages, then most of them would not be good IPPSs…though they might be suitable as an NIPS–but would HG give up the residual benefit of sex?), then there are only 17 female empath victims to provide for the prime aims as the IPPS optimally…
“How many intimate partners could be devalued before the remainder of potential targets cottoned on? How long before the rest of the group expelled him? Not long.” — Depends…what is the breakdown of school/cadre of the 17 female empaths who could be considered to be best choices? I think that HG would keep the worst of the devaluing behavior hidden. It sounds like that is predominantly what he does now, too. He’s stated many times that he doesn’t need an audience to witness his assertions of control. There might be more narcissistic/normal women who could fill the roles of DLSs/IPSSs. Moreover, I think HG’s public facade would be impeccable and irreproachable. What sort of knowledge would the empaths have of narcissism before ending up on the island? What skills would HG bring to the population (I think we can assume them to be vital)? What sort of distractions would be provided by the less skilled, stupider narcissists? Imagine if one was just like HW?
If the island’s population, instead, is 99 female empaths to one Ultra–well, all the empaths have the addiction to deal with and only one person to get their hits from. Additionally, they would not be quick to exile anyone. Arguably, seems to me 99 empaths to the Ultra would a good (if not the best) island situation for HG…assuming they aren’t all weaponized empaths who’ve learned from him…well, then HG knows everything they know…I think HG could make any of the situations work for him. When they spotted those bad behaviors…they would still need his knowledge/skills/etc.
Moreover, HG might make himself king of Empath Island after washing up on their shore.
“So here, I would estimate that the narcissism would have to adapt to accommodate circumstances i.e remaining in one area for an extended period.” — Agreed.
“Fuel becoming stale is the largest problem here.” — It would be a major problem.
Fury and the need to punish…another problem, but only if it escapes in front of witnesses…how quiet could numerous incidents be kept in a small island community without modern building materials to sound proof? He could invite the hapless empath for a picnic on a cliff and isolate them…
And I agree that I think HG could make any changes that he wants…and if he has the right motivation, he might do anything…
Why 100 people? One Ultra – one empath. Adaptation guaranteed.
Also, when civilisation problems fall away, there is less for the narc-construct to fight for or compete with world’s expectation of fitting in. No wounding from all sides.
On the island, why should the empath want to wound, if Ultra would explain to the empath.
They would face island survival and simple life rather.
If the empath would be worn down or over the top abused, she would lose the will to live and will be gone, and who wants that?! Narcissism? No.
Jordy–
“On the island, why should the empath want to wound, if Ultra would explain to the empath.” — I don’t think that empaths intentionally wound as long as they aren’t being abused…but it can still happen. They don’t know that their fuel is becoming stale or that they cease giving as much as the narcissist needs. It feels like a natural relationship progression to them. And I don’t think H.G. would tell them…it’s transferring power.
“she would lose the will to live and will be gone, and who wants that” — Excellent point, Jordy. But the fuel would still get stale…and the boredom would still be present…and could one person supply all H.G.’s fuel needs? But H.G. would only have one top-of-the-line human fuel source…and I don’t know how long he could go without a human fuel source.
Dani hi:)) I think I proposed a crass scenario there, the more I think about it… But now I must think it till the end.
„They don’t know that their fuel is becoming stale or that they cease giving as much as the narcissist needs.“
So in a one on one ’stuck on an island’ – there is no other option available for the Ultra, except just this one empath, thus the question would be: What is un-stale Fuel?
In other words: how do both of them would need to adapt to each other, in order to survive without going mad (or dead).
The fuel-matrix would have to be adapted to one empath and the island-fuel (living nature fuels too, as it serves the survival) and that may create a different outcome compared to what usually would occur. (Or what we/ I think occurs. We don’t know actually. Could be anything by now, given the fact that the Ultra evolves each second, due to information and awareness.)
If the empath would happen to be just one available source of human-fuel, a measurement of balance in that regard would have to be applied, if we don’t want to burn out the empath just within one year or two. Because we don’t know when the rescue team would manage to show up. We don’t hope or rely on the team to come. We act and survive. Either by telling the empath what is what, or not telling and still survive. Both is possible I think.
„I don’t think that empaths intentionally wound as long as they aren’t being abused…but it can still happen.“ — Me too, think this.
But they also don’t know the rules of what has the potential to wound unintentionally and how this whole thing works. So basically the whole N/P-topic would have to be explained and understood by the empath in order to deal with the situation, in a one on one – stuck on an island, scenario. If we pre-assume that the narcissistic construct would remain the same on this occasion. Since „the world“ falls away, the demands, the usual operating systems and environment.
To tell the empath what is what, would that be a transference of power? Yes. But if power is knowledge and understanding is shared in this instance, does it also transfers back to the Ultra and would make him even more powerful? Empaths understand and live power differently…
…
Power Corrupts…
Knowledge is Power…
Knowledge Sets You Free…
…
If this is true. What is inevitable? !
…
It would be a testing situation for the empath. Just as the Ultra is testing Humanity.
…
But it’s even more complex and I can’t formulate it…
Maybe you can see it…
Hi Jordy!
“What is un-stale Fuel?
“In other words: how do both of them would need to adapt to each other, in order to survive without going mad (or dead).”
Unstale fuel…a variety of emotional reactions provided by a range of appliances…unfortunately, in this case, there is but one appliance…so changing the emotional reaction would change the type of fuel…thus making it fresh and scrumptious for the Ultra. Presumably as fuel grows stale, Mr. Tudor would get up to tricks…his devious mind would have to connive ways to mess with the empath without inadvertently disadvantaging himself. It seems like more destructive behavior would be off the table…but I suppose he could stash food away and blame the empath for being lazy and not gathering enough or eating too much and not caring about his needs without causing too many problems…I’m sure there are plenty of ways he could think of to gaslight and mess with an empath, any empath…but how much could he mess with them before they shut down or decided he was too much trouble.
But they also don’t know the rules of what has the potential to wound unintentionally and how this whole thing works. — Unless they do…imagine the Ultra vs the top empath Tudorite…my money is on Mr. Tudor…everything they know he taught them…but I doubt he’s taught anyone everything he knows…even if they uncovered his real identity…I think their gratitude would keep them around, and then they might try to have a discussion:
Empath: “Mr. Tudor, we need to talk about this disturbing absent silent treatment…”
HG (imperiously): “I’m Richard Ignatius George Hadrian Trunchbull as you well know, and you are Wendy Rachael Olivia Nicole Graham.”
No way to know what would play out…it would greatly depend on what type of empath he found himself with and what their base knowledge was…but Mr. Tudor frequently explains that he won’t take actions that would transfer power to someone else. But in the extreme situation…if the empath threatened to leave him…or worse treacherously abandoned him…I still think he’s more likely to try to charm them back with charm and future faking…rather than the truth.
I add what about the other male narcs and psychopaths who also want the empaths. How do they deal with each other? And what happens when the empaths cultivate communities, religions, libraries, charities, social programs , education for all and law enforcement. Empaths build communities. This utopia is looking more and more like the real world lol
„stash food away and blame the empath“ — hahahaha lmao
„imagine the Ultra vs the top empath Tudorite…my money is on Mr. Tudor“ — Ah lol, how can you say that🤣😘
„everything they know he taught them“ — yea! Interesting scenario…
🐯💕
“what about the other male narcs and psychopaths who also want the empaths.”
There was an actual scenario during WW2. 32Men & 1Woman Trapped on an Island. Look it up on YT. 😉
Dani!
RE: Transference of power and how it magnifies.
We can also consider this one moment; how does the master teacher prove that he is a master? By the result of his apprentice.
The master on his part must not have any mercy or indulge the apprentice. The victory must be earned for real.
Comment from the archives:
HG: “You cannot detach from the emotional sea, you have to cross it. Swimming will not work. You will drown. You need a vessel, a vessel forged from logic and understanding that will withstand the tempest, the storms, the tidal waves and tsunamis. Your vessel will be broken, it will sink and you will drown but then you will aim to build a bigger vessel, a better vessel and you will repeat the process until one day you cross that sea. It may take one attempt, it may take a hundred, but it can be done even with me as the kraken waiting to wrap a tentacle around you and drag you down into the foaming emotional brine once again.”
Jordy–
I maintain…it would be far worse for the entire community to try to abandon Mr. Tudor…than to let him stay…I also think that Mr. Tudor would understand just how far he could push and whom he could push without causing massive problems for himself…and there would be still be the other narcissists (mostly lower echelons) amongst the community causing more mayhem with haphazard ways. Mr. Tudor could easily set them up as a patsy…
Dani hey!
„it would be far worse for the entire community to try to abandon Mr. Tudor“ ― oh I was in a one on one scenario within all my examples, not a community. I don’t get the „abandon“ move either. Transference of power would not result in abandonment in how I imagine it. But with adaptation. Peacefully, I guess.
Hi Dani,
It’s a fun scenario to consider isn’t it? I go back and forth on it in terms of how I think HG might manipulate but also amend the way he views his fuel matrix. Really an IPPS just makes fuel harvesting easier. It’s like going to a supermarket for your weekly shop rather than independent shops that specialise in one item. 50% of the fuel requirement is filled by just one person, leaving HG to go to specialist ‘shops’ for specialist secondary requirements. It’s saves time and energy and technically is a ‘safe’ 50%.
I think the fuel matrix is key to the desert island dilemma. I think it would change structure. All are in close proximity, so, the fuel intake could readily come from secondary sources almost as easily as from the Primary. The Primary source has higher potency fuel, however is that simply because of proximity, ease of access and familiarity thus heightened emotional reactions? There might be less need for an IPPS at all on a desert island. If there was no IPPS but rather proximate secondary sources, there would be less risk of stale fuel. An IPPS might actually pose more risk in that scenario. HG views sex as a tool so would there be an IPSS? Several? How would other males view HG working his way through the female population?! How would the physical need for intimacy rank against a safer non intimate fuel supply that doesn’t turn stale?
Yes, I imagined a representative sample of the population on the desert island. I didn’t go as detailed as to narc or empath school and cadres but you’re right in that this would likely impact how HG was viewed.
Assuming current fuel matrix structure. I think knowledge of narcissism would be less relevant on the island. If HG was devaluing an IPPS, he lacks privacy to do that covertly. Isolation would be difficult to achieve also as you said. I think it’s more likely that the IPPS would communicate her devaluation to others, or others would find out, therefore making it increasingly difficult to recruit a replacement IPPS. The devaluation would need to be far less harsh, certainly by the time HG was on IPPS 2 or 3. Yes, HG would have useful skills that might offset expulsion for not playing nice but overall I would estimate the group would operate on a less hierarchical structure, harmony would be key, and if one male is getting too much power or too many women, the other males aren’t going to take kindly to him. Would he take a male IPPS? fuel needs must, so it’s possible but I think it’s unlikely given HG’s skill set, Haha!
HG would likely be viewed more positively if there was an outside threat to the group. That might nudge a more hierarchical structure that would suit him.
Agree, I hadn’t considered fury but it would be a problem. How to contain it when releasing it would destroy the facade? HG’s already iron grip on his ignited fury would need to be entirely trigger proof. That would be less straight forward when appliances are not selected but are instead dealt out via the desert island situation.
So for me, in the desert island scenario the fuel matrix is key. It would need a complete rethink. Secondary source fuel would likely be upgraded whilst primary source fuel would likely be downgraded. There would be no tertiary source fuel available within that population size, all would be secondary sources with or without a primary.
Control needs to be considered too, it’s still simpler to control one person (IPPS) than many people. So the IPPS role might still be valid. That said, in such close proximity, control would need to be asserted widely anyway and a group of women might actually be easier to control if there was no IPPS.
I’m getting dizzy here!
If there are 100 people, it’s also possible HG isn’t the only psychopath. Now that would be interesting to watch! My money is definitely on HG there!
Xx
Also HG did a recent you tube on a contagian empath meeting a psychopathic narc in a Forrest, he breezes past her. So would contagians just be left in cave on the island making healing herbs and gardening? Lol
Indeed! The Contagion Empath Senses Darkness – it was a very interesting one…
Hmmm let’s see, perhaps something a bit of this, how she sensed.
„The encounter“; when the air starts to vibrate; an uncontrollable dizziness and spiraling; and the sudden inability to move out of the ’standing in the eye of the storm’ as monstrous waves of darkest-awe-and-power are crushing against her ship; and she know – she must erase the memory of this unforgettable presence, mixed with the realisation – this unusual voice MUST be heard, because it will tell her what she need to hear and what she must know and never forget; mixed with her ability to ’stand in the shoes of this „inhuman“ presence – which is the mirror/ the emptiness and the darkness at the same. One of the both would have been easier, but there are two… No, three…
Not that simple at all, what the C-empath must have sensed there.
HG,
I like the thumbnail pic, it’s very classic, romantic, melancholy provoking image, just beautifully sullen. I’m sure it was intentional xx
HG,
This is why I feel for your kind and why they’re able to ensnare me so easily. I have empathy for a large range of people, animals and I act on the empathy and do for them, fix their problems, pay for their debts, help them with their alcohol problem, take them in and get taken advantage of by family, not once, but three times….yeah, my heart is my weakest link and it’s gotten me in more trouble than a dog in heat, in a den of wolves.
I feel for your kind and the last person I think of is me, or used to be. Now, I choose who is in my life. Xx