Asylum of the Grotesque : Fiona
I have been married once and only once to a woman named Fiona.
The relationship lasted for four years. I had two affairs during that time when she entered devaluation. Valerie was my first affair partner lasting eight months followed by Emily. The affair with Emily lasted for seven months. Both were intimate partner secondary sources. Valerie an empath and Emily a narcissist. Both attended to the prime aims.
My marriage ended and divorce followed and whilst the divorce had been granted the financial arrangements rumbled on with the ball washing bastards looking to extort ridiculous sumsfor “perusal” and “review” (I was wise to their game believe me), relationship wise Fiona had been left in the dust and my focus was on my new intimate partner primary source, Caroline. You may remember Caroline from other works.
It was the golden period and Caroline, loyal and dedicated to me approached me one evening. She appeared unsettled.
“What´s the matter?” I asked.
She had tears in her eyes and thrust a piece of paper towards me. She did not do so in an accusing manner but rather as if she wanted to throw the paper away. I took the single sheet of paper from her. It was thick and I could see elegant hand writing which I immediately recognised as that of my ex-wife.
“How could someone be so wicked?” whispered Caroline as if she had been punched in the stomach.
I read the content of the letter which was addressed to Caroline. I felt the fury rise within me, but it made no appearance for I kept it within, preserving it, holding it, crafting it. There was no need for it to show in this place, no reason at all.
“She really is as awful as you warned me,” continued Caroline. I nodded.
“I will deal with this,” I replied in a matter of fact manner. I stood up, kissed her and told her not to worry, that this was just another instance of the madness of my jealous and deranged ex-wife. Caroline nodded in understanding before I kissed her and with the letter folded into my pocket, I left my property.
A time later I was stood outside the elegant town house where Fiona resided. I slammed the door knocker three times, ignoring the door bell and waited. It was evening, it was dark and drizzle fell from the sky. The door opened, the warm yellow light beyond bleeding into the night street. It was Phillip who answered the door, Fiona´s new beau.
“Ah HG,” he announced nervously.
“Hello Pip,” I responded with a wan smile. He hated me calling him that, so I continued to do so.
“It´s Phillip,” he responded with a futile attempt to cause me to alter my addressing of him.
“Would you go and get Fiona, please Pip, I do not need to come in, this will not take long?”
He hesitated and then turned.
“Darling, you have a……” another pause “visitor.”
Little shit not even announcing me by name. Still at least Pip was now showing some pluck, a contrast with his insipid behaviour when we had met previously. I offered no reaction despite my irritation.
Fiona appeared at the top of the stairs and then stopped when she saw it was me.
“Can´t it go through the lawyers?” she asked.
“You would prefer that it would not,” I explained.
“Is that HG´s preference or truly mine?” she asked. At least she remembered some things.
I gave a short laugh.
“You can go Pip,” I declared. Fiona descended the stairs into the well-appointed hallway and placed a hand on Pip´s chest as she passed.
“Want me to stay?” he asked. Oh so brave, so gallant. She shook her head.
“This won´t take long,” she assured. He nodded and with a glance back at me and a nod of departure, he retreated back up the stairs.
“He´s not grown since I last saw him,” I noted indicating towards the departing back of Pip. I saw a trace of a smile flicker on the edges of her mouth but she dispelled it, not wanting to give me anything, but it was too late.
“What is it?” she asked.
I removed her letter to Caroline from my pocket and began to read.
“Dear Caroline,
I write this letter (I stopped and pointed out that this was self-evident and superfluous) purely from a position of kind intent. You are involved with someone who you must go from as soon as you have read this letter.
HG Tudor, is a name that evokes a sense of malevolence and darkness. A figure lurking in the shadows, manipulating, exploiting, and wreaking havoc upon the lives of others. To understand the true sinister nature of HG is to peel back the layers of deception, to shine a light on the twisted mind that revels in causing pain and suffering.
It is within the very essence of HG ‘s being that the seeds of malevolence were sown. Devoid of empathy, emotionally empty, he finds pleasure and fulfillment in the misery of others. A puppet master pulling invisible strings, manipulating his victims to dance to his twisted tune. For him, empathy is a foreign concept, an alien notion that he observes in others but feels no connection to within himself.
Like a predator stalking its prey, HG wears a mask of charm and charisma to lure his victims towards him. With calculated precision, he identifies their weaknesses and insecurities, exploiting them to gain power and control. His manipulative tactics are honed to perfection, leaving his victims trapped in a web of his making, unable to escape the clutches of his sinister game.
But it is not only the act of manipulation that defines the sinister nature of HG. It is the absolute delight he takes in causing pain and suffering, the sadistic pleasure that courses through him as he witnesses the devastation he has wrought. He feeds off the emotional turmoil of others, extracting satisfaction and power from their vulnerability and despair.
There is a distinct lack of morality in the actions of HG . He has no regard for the well-being of others, viewing them as mere pawns to be used and discarded at his whim. Their pain, their tears, their shattered lives mean nothing to him. He revels in the destruction he leaves in his wake, finding a perverse sense of satisfaction in the misery he inflicts.
But what truly sets HG Tudor apart is his ability to demonstrate he cannot be touched. He plays the part with such conviction, such mastery, that even his victims question their own reality. He gaslights, manipulates, and twists the truth, leaving his victims doubting their own perceptions, their own sanity. It is a sickening display of psychological warfare, designed to keep them under his control, forever trapped in his sinister grasp.
There is no remorse within HG , no regret for the pain he has caused. He is a creature driven by his own insatiable hunger for power and control, a relentless quest that knows no bounds. He is the embodiment of darkness, a force that thrives on the suffering of others.
But perhaps the most unsettling aspect of HGs sinister nature is the fact that he is not some fictional character, a figment of someone’s imagination. He is a real person, walking among us, hidden behind a cleverly crafted facade. His actions, his manipulation, and his sadistic pleasure are the truest reflections of the darkest depths of human nature.
HG Tudor is a chilling manifestation of a twisted mind devoid of empathy and consumed by a thirst for power and control. His ability to manipulate, exploit, and cause pain showcases a malevolence that is deeply unsettling. To encounter the likes of HG Tudor is to face a sinister force that preys upon the vulnerabilities of others for its own pleasure and gratification.
You may not have yet experienced this and for that I am grateful. If he has begun that deadly dance with you, you have my compassion, but wherever you find yourself in relation to him, leave him this instant. Leave him, flee and never look back. He cannot be controlled, he cannot be conquered, he cannot be changed. Whatever he tells you, do not believe it but know this, you are in such danger and the only way to avoid it is to flee. I know this and wish somebody had written such words to me so that I would have paid heed and avoided the utter torture and misery that vicious man visited on me time and time again.
You need not suffer. I implore you, leave and do not look back.
Yours in concern
Fiona”
I looked at her. I could see the disappointment on her face that I held her letter, that it had not been acted on. That pleased me.
“I just dropped by to thank you for this glowing reference and to remind you that I will be living up to everything you wrote about me, just for you,” I declared in a low voice before I smiled, folded the letter up, tucked it back into my pocket and then walked away into the damp night.
153 thoughts on “Asylum of the Grotesque : Fiona”
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I just purchased the inexpensive audio version of ‘The Three that got away’ and WOW!
Like every HG storytelling video this one doesn’t disappoint. It provides some insight into the Fiona exchange.
I highly recommend it!
Thank you.
How long did it take from the beginning of your relationship with Fiona until the marriage proposal and the wedding, HG?
Was her opinion of you in the end what you wanted her to believe?
Mr. Tudor,
After reading comments from you, Joa and Contagious, I’m seeing the letter differently.
When Fiona wrote this letter, was it her intention to get to you and not really to warn Caroline?
In my experience, when I try to manipulate, it backfires. That seems to be what happened here. It only angered you more and it may have caused Caroline’s devaluation to come on quicker.
Knowing what you’re capable of, was her empathy so eroded that she didn’t care about the consequences to Caroline?
Her aim was to cause problems for me.
Even one of her profession is not a natural in the field of manipulation, which is why empathic individuals are better served with GOSO than seeking to manipulate.
Her aim was to impact on me with the secondary expectation that Caroline would be assisted, but that was not her primary aim.
I wouldn’t have told you about the letter. I would have made a mental note and watched your behavior.
If you were an empath in the throes of adoration and admiration early in that relationship, likely having been love bombed and so under the illusion you were deeply appreciated and cared for like you’d never been before by a person whose previous partners let him down, you’d think the letter outrageous and you’d hand it up immediately.
Thank you for your response, Mr. Tudor.
I was just wondering if Fiona’s letter is word for word or was it tweaked a bit for entertainment?
I am baffled why people would think that this letter was written by HG. If it had not come from Fiona (or her side), there would be no sense in publishing it in the Asylum of the Grotesque series. If he had wanted to write something like this as an instructive text, he would hardly have put it in a category where he specifically tells us about his personal history. And he has no need to pretend that someone else is the author of his own writings.
I understand your reaction Anna, but anyone who is (if only a bit) skeptical, could think that.
I’m not saying that I think that, let’s be clear, I just understand that if you visit a site from a narcissist, you can’t just by default believe every word that is written/ spoken.
First, there is no proof, no way to check
Second, I don’t know Witch, but if she’s new here, and even if she’s here longer but just skeptical, I can totally understand.
I’m around for a few months, not always been active, and when I started to listen I was skeptical and still I keep in my mind that HG is not neurotypical, I don’t know him and all I’ve got is is his word for it. I have no reason to think that HG wants to dupe us with his work.
I believe in his reasons and motivations, I find it very interesting to learn his perspective,
I believe what I’ve learned from HG and I have mentioned on serveral occasions how grateful I am. I also always keep in mind that I don’t know HG, and that we interact with a narcissist.
Actually I find it a bit strange that we learn here about the ins and outs, the manipulations and the lies and everything, and then decide ‘But in HG we trust, no questions asked’
It is a bit contrary from what we learn, to lose your logical and critical thinking isn’t it?
*English is not my first language and in writing, everything is tone deaf. I do not mean to say anything negative about HG and his work, on the contrary. I only try to say that logical thinking and being skeptical applies everywhere, and thus, here.
Again HG, Thank you for doing this, I’m probably a bit addicted too, perhaps a bit of a fan, and also trying to hold on to logic.
Hello Brenda,
I agree that it is a healthy attitude not to take a narcissist’s every word at face value. Narcissists can use the truth to achieve their aims, though, and HG says that on here he uses the truth. Everyone makes their own decision on whether to believe that, but if I have made the decision to accept it as a baseline, I see no reason to question it selectively.
But my main point is that it would not serve HG’s purpose to invent this letter and put words in Fiona’s mouth. Naturally he might have changed a word here and there and, as Fiona already knew what she had written, he may or may not have read the whole letter to her, he may instead only have included it in its entirety for our benefit. But the Asylum of the Grotesque is a category dedicated to his real-life interactions with IPPSs and others, so that we can learn more about him and about the dynamic as it happened. So making such a letter up would not be helpful within the framework of this category, to me it would be counterproductive. HG’s goal is to be the number one provider of information about narcissism and to teach us the truth, not feed us halftruths, so inventing such a letter would, in my opinion, go against his stated aims. In any other category he is free to invent all sorts of situations as a teaching tool, but here he has to at least stick to the broad facts, as long as they are not too revealing. An invented letter, when there was none, will not teach us about the reality of the relationship, it would only cloud our view, and it would make the whole article – in THIS category – basically useless.
Logical.
Thank you, that’s not sweet of you at all.
Hi Everyone,
On second reading, I wonder if a therapist helped Fiona with this letter. It’s very matter of fact and lacks emotion. If someone is too emotional, the message can get lost in the delivery. Its better to stay calm and collected. Wouldn’t Fiona be emotional about it if she suffered that much? I think someone had to help her take a neutral stance.
There is force in this suggestion. Fiona wrote it and she could be rather matter of fact, which the letter is, nevertheless I also thought that she had received input from a third party and conveyed those observations through her own words.A therapist would be the most likely person providing such input and that she would pay attention. I do know it would not be Pip.
Thank you for your response, Mr. Tudor. I’m pleased your pleased with my suggestion.
May I ask, HG … who is Pip?
That is evident surely from the article? He was Fiona’s new boyfriend.
Very easy to overlook considering the status he is given in the article.
Pippi Longstocking lol Pip/Pippi “ I have never tried that before so I definitely should be able to do that.” or maybe Sir Hopalong!
Hello HG:
My take is from an attorneys point of view. A woman still in the divorce and fighting to get money whether community property or spousal support ( did you have to pay spousal support?) is often very angry. In your case you moved on quick which would make her even angrier. My take is she wrote it knowing it would go from Carole to you. Fiona perhaps hoped to harm the new relationship. But she knows how charming you are and given her knowledge of you, I think she knew Carole would…tell you. I’m think the letter in part was a one upmanship. Fiona wanting to convey how intimately she knows you as opposed to “ poor little Carole.” I also think she was aiming a threat, if you don’t pay me, I can harm you. If so terrified by you, she would not have risked writing a letter. She would run. She is not a normal or she would not have lasted 4 years. She is not a narc as you once said you don’t take a narc as a IPPS. So she is an empath with her empathy diminished by the divorce and her anger. I don’t know which type but as I recall you prefer supers or magnets. My guess is magnet and she is beautiful. Gets attention. I don’t think she was really “ warning” Carole simply because it was too soon as she had not finished the proceedings and was in the midst of it and her letter too emotional.
1. Am I right?
2. Fiona is an Irish name, and red heads can be stunning. Was she a redhead?
Thank you !
1. No.
2. No.
Caroline (ex IPPS), not to be confused with Carole (current blogger and subject of discussion about proposal to HG).
“I do know it would not be Pip.
Ah, Pip.
Poor, paltry, pallid little Pip.
Pip has no perception as to the preeminence of his predecessor.
But Fiona knows precisely.
No doubt she misses your primal prowess, and finds Pip’s performance puny in comparison.
I pity Pip.
Leigh, in my opinion the letter is not very factual and was dictated by emotions. Only generalities and paeans about the dark superhuman.
A bulleted list of evidence, or at least a short list of specific allegations, would be more substantive. I think, it would have a chance to make a greater impression on the recipient.
Hi Joa,
I saw the letter as very clinical. I even considered that she might me a lawyer.
I do agree though that a bulleted list of evidence with specific allegations might’ve made a greater impact. Although if Caroline was already fully ensnared and completely under control, that might not have worked either.
“ I saw the letter as very clinical. I even considered that she might me a lawyer.”
@Leigh
Same, I noticed that too to the point it seems like something HG would write. It must have been a very knowledgeable therapist who helped her write it
“I just dropped by to thank you for this glowing reference and to remind you that I will be living up to everything you wrote about me, just for you,”
Definitely has the tone of a reference, or even a teacher’s report. Doesn’t come across as a negative, which is supposedly how it is intended.
After reading other comments here a thought crossed my mind that one ploy of the Greater/Ultra could be to send this to the victim/IPPS (Caroline) himself to gauge her reaction, and what a delicious little treat it would be to think that he had told her but she was convinced to believe the letter came from the former IPPS.
I’ve got a sense Fiona had an element of strength about her, i.e. Super Empath perhaps, and thus the shortened length of the marriage which involved a decision on her part as much as HG.
Somehow that same thought doesn’t lead me to believe she would send a letter such as this.
Hi LET,
Its so nice to see you! I thought Super empath as well. I also wondered if she’s majority Savior. She goes to great lengths to write this letter and warn Caroline. That has Savior written all over it.
Hi Leigh, good to see you, too, and I hadn’t really considered Saviour simply because I overlooked the Saviour’s need to intervene and seek justice. I was thinking more of the Super empath and their strength, which could also involve a level of “payback”.
I think now HG has clarified aspects of the letter and it’s writing which lead to a better understanding, but I don’t think we have a school or cadre for Fiona, so it will have to remain speculation (at least on my part) for now.
Hi LET, nice to see you! I had some of the same thoughts regarding Fiona’s strength and the possibility of her being a Super, maybe it would cause her to write it and maybe it would cause her not to.
HG’s words to her read to me as menacing and I felt were intended to cause her to blame herself for what she knew would be Caroline treatment eventually. I think HG knew this was a good way to hurt her for writing the letter. I hope she was able to realize what she wrote would’ve been Caroline fate regardless of her having written the letter.
The speculation about HG having written and sent it doesn’t sound to me like something he wouldn’t take credit for at this point, with us. He could’ve done so but he did state it was written by Fiona. Interesting to consider though.
Hi AV,
I agree that Mr. Tudor’s intention was to hurt Fiona by causing her to blame herself for what would happen to Caroline.
She must’ve known there would be a chance Mr. Tudor would find out. But she felt it was worth the risk to try and save her. By the contents of that letter, she knew Caroline’s ill fate was inevitable. I hope because of that knowledge, she didn’t blame herself too much.
The more I think about this letter the more I wonder if Fiona is a combination of Savior and Martyr. She wrote this letter because she needed to protect Caroline and she didn’t worry about the consequences to herself.
I wonder if you are right Leigh, those cadres would make sense.
Lovely to see you, too, AV 🙂
Enjoyed reading your thoughts here and have to agree, I imagine that’s something HG would take credit for if it had been part of his plan in ensnaring his new IPPS.
Yes, his ability to turn Fiona’s letter back on her will have created greater discomfort for her than it ever would have created for HG in being made aware of it.
I still remember being so thoroughly conned by the narcissist into believing his ex was a nightmare, and had the opposite experience of wanting to contact her to ask if she was aware she had been married to a narcissist. We could commiserate with eachother. Maybe the same thought crossed Caroline’s mind in the end.
A Happy 1st Birthday to your little grandbaby, too, AV <3 xox
Aww, thank you for the birthday wishes for my little one! And happy birthday to your little one also! Take care LET 💕
Thanks, AV <3
Time just flies!
Hi, AV,
I think that Fiona would have denied writing the letter if she hadn’t written it, as opposed to, “I could see the disappointment on her face that I held her letter, that it had not been acted on.”
I agree Dani.
lickemtomorrow, a very good thought crossed your mind!
I also think, that this letter was prepared by HG. This was also my first thought after reading this text from Asylum Grotesque, but I didn’t understand why HG was playing before us on the blog? And he, played in front of these women.
This justifies, why the letter is a laurel of praise for him and at the same time a scary (for IPPS and former IPPS) and that it is written in the HG style.
This also explains, why he read the letter to Fiona in its entirety!
If she were the author, she would have bristled after the first sentence and stopped this declamation in front of her house.
IPPS experienced many emotions and strengthened trust in HG. The former IPPS was speechless at HG insolence and then became angry/scared/sad or all at once.
Yes, I think this is it!
Thank you – and now nothing clashes with each other and everything fits together 🙂
Wrong.
My excitement, related to solving the mystery, was extinguished like a cigarette in an ashtray.
Hmmm… so, I give up. This letter is like sand between your teeth. It rasp.
This is a laudation of HG strength and power, not a letter from a concerned, empathetic woman, who wants to warn another woman.
If the letter wasn’t written by HG himself, the only logical explanation is that Fiona had just discovered the “narcissistic mechanism” and was so fascinated by it, that she had to share it and:
a) she put her own feelings, exaggerated by excitement, ahead of achieving the goal and ensuring the effectiveness of the message to a specific person.
b) the intended, proper recipient of this letter was HG (triumphant – I see you!) and there was still a game going on here.
c) both of the above.
But considering, she was already in a relationship with another man, would it consume her that much? She should devote a significant part of her energy to building a new relationship, getting excited and enjoying it. And if she doesn’t do it, it means that she still holds open the gate of interaction with HG (of various kinds) with one finger, and Pip plays the role of an extra or fills the gap (weak).
Perhaps this lack of harmony is due to the insufficient amount of data presented to us.
—–
HG, given that Fiona is not among the women who “escaped”, did your interaction continue?
“b) the intended, proper recipient of this letter was HG (triumphant – I see you!) and there was still a game going on here.”
Now you are getting there. Remember, the ancillary relief proceedings were still ongoing, therefore Fiona was very much in the arenas of interaction and feeling she had something to prove to me.
My thought is that Fiona has, through whatever means, has been armed and followed the ‘get out’ rule. By writing the letter (which I believe I might have done),she broke the ‘stay out rule’
Now Fiona is back on his radar and therefore painted black.
HG got a lot of fuel when he thanked her for the reference in a low voice and smiled. Now he had a need to assert control.
Haha, Joa, a cigarette in an ashtray indeed …
You’re perseverance to solve the mystery has paid off, it seems <3
Your option B makes a lot of sense, Joa. I also believed HG had a hand/pen in writing this letter (in addition to Fiona’s therapist(s) and Fiona herself), as most of the language is very similar in its embellishment to the rest of ‘The Asylum of the Grotesque’ series. The game was likely still being played though, and Fiona attempted the impossible task of beating HG on his home turf.
So Fiona’s narcissistic traits, accompanying empathy, were in full force 🙂
Now it is understandable. When I was handling legal cases against N2, I was fueled by hyperenergy – even when I had no contact with him for months 🙂 Lightnings came out of my eyes.
But I performed all actions calmly, planning and considering every move (for now and for the future). I savored it – although of course I shouldn’t admit it. In fact, there was a period, when I “lived” only thanks to it.
And at the same time, I was the best, most caring, tender and joyful mother in the world. Now I’m not that good anymore, and I don’t have to, pfff 🙂
Amazing. I wrote – thinking about myself from the past, ha ha ha 🙂
—–
Thanks for the clarification HG.
Ha! Knew it! Fiona enjoyed seeing you at her doorstep, as much as I would have throughout an ET ebb and flow. Internal thoughts: Awe, he is reading my letter, he is so adorable still. I hate him, I love him, I ….
Fiona’s letter was an empath’s (unconscious) “hoover” in order to see you but also to do what the Super Empaths (majority?) can be prone to: „See, I got claws too”. hehe💌
Hi Joa–
““Can´t it go through the lawyers?” she asked.””
““You would prefer that it would not,” I explained.”
““Is that HG´s preference or truly mine?” she asked. At least she remembered some things.”
I’m reading this part of the interaction differently now, considering that the letter was directed at HG. If she did get assistance from a therapist in writing it, I wonder if it was one of those pieces of therapeutic homework where they tell you to write a letter to the person who hurt you–but not to actually send it! She sent it, still ensnared. What do you think, Joa?
Also–I agree that she should be putting her energies into the new relationship if she actually wants that to work (or anywhere but into HG’s game), but I think we’ve all been there. She got bit by the big dog and now Pip the Pup is like shelter. But, she knows who really has teeth. That’s how I read her smile at HG’s comment about Pip’s size. Also, she sure was quick to dismiss the little guy.
“I looked at her. I could see the disappointment on her face that I held her letter, that it had not been acted on. That pleased me.”
HG, as you read the letter to her, before you got to this point, what emotions did you detect from her? What sorts of feelings kept her rooted to the spot? Thank you.
Impotent anger.
Jordyguin, what a relief. It’s good, that I wasn’t the only one, who felt this completely contradictory wave of emotions (which could not be tamed with rational arguments). When I filed first lawsuit, I was dying to forced him and see him again. I was counting down the days (hours and minutes) until the trial, like castaway on a desert island 🙂
Standing in the courtroom opposite him and calmly telling the judge about his “sins and omissions” towards our child. I was simultaneously swooning with internal excitement and greedily enjoying the moment of his presence. Every grimace and every word he says. Smell.
At that time, all I wanted was for him, to hate me, hate me, and hate me, and for him to never forget me. I wanted to delve into his interior as deeply as possible, so that he would not be able to get rid of my love imprint for the rest of his life. The trace, I decided to leave him is an imprint of “goodness”.
Joa:
I had the same instinct. I didn’t see it as her saving someone.
As an attorney, I thought if in a divorce and writes a “warning letter” or to me a hate letter, then possibly she was trying to get at him. Caroline was the first IPSS before proceedings were over. Most women would be upset he moved on so quick after a 4 year marriage so longer assuming they didn’t rush in. Fiona also knew HG would hear about the letter from Caroline. Why wouldn’t Caroline share? Fiona and her weren’t besties and she is in the throes of a new relationship. Fiona is aware of HGs initial charm. My instinct is that she wanted to show the upper hand. Tell Caroline how well she knows HG and show her personal knowledge of him as the “ first” or the “wife” versus this little rebound. Tell HG she can get to him and tell HG what she thinks of him. She is clearly angry. Seething anger and resentment. I see the letter as a narcissistic plunge. I don’t know enough about Fiona to know if she is normal, empath or narc. But 4 years is “ long legs” for a narc. A normal might flee earlier. Narc and narc cemented. I don’t think so. Empath with her empathy low due to divorce? Maybe. I need more on Fiona or see her eyes. Also it’s HG not your typical narc.
Hi Contagious,
Mr. Tudor confirmed that Fiona isn’t a narcissist. See below response.
https://narcsite.com/2024/01/26/asylum-of-the-grotesque-fiona/#comment-451856
This is interesting. I hadn’t considered that Fiona did it in order to see Mr. Tudor again. Between yours and Joa’s comments, I’m looking at it differently now.
Joa, yep! I felt it too, but there was also a clue in the text: “I saw a trace of a smile flicker on the edges of her mouth but she dispelled it, not wanting to give me anything, but it was too late.”
I continue to learn from my mistakes 🙂
One word sums it all up!
Joa, I thought it fit perfectly, too! I appreciate your excitement at the thought we may have solved the mystery, but alas, it wasn’t to be so. I definitely had a similar sense to you from your original comment and also TS “smelled a rat” so to speak. It seems the issue has now been clarified, but may not have been if we hadn’t taken it on such a wild trajectory 🙂 Hopefully was haven’t given the narcissus any ideas xox
I noticed the lack of mentioning the words “narcissism” and “psychopath” within Fiona’s letter, yet, she appears to have gone into quite a lot of detail about the behaviours that may be found within the Dark Tetrad (sadism; narcissism; psychopath & Machiavellian).
On that note, Gemma was the one who shared her thoughts with HG from what she had learned as a student. By doing so, she effectively gave HG a key to start on his own self-awareness journey leading to the creation of his Legacy…….. and what a Legacy it is !
Hi AspEmp,
Thank you AspEmp for answering the girlfriend question. I had forgotten Gemma’s name. Xx
Hi Rebecca, thank you for your reply 🙂
You’re welcome and thank you very much AspEmp for your answer. Xx
I’m confusing Gemma and Hannah all the time. Thank you for mentioning Gemma, Aspi!
And what if Gemma came across HG’s work and is using it in her profession today?
The key given back then would have been returned! Multiplied!
Hi Jordyguin, I think HG would have retained the key 🙂
A very strange and suspicious letter. Sounds like a laurel, like a letter of commendation for Narcissus.
And most importantly – the letter is completely unconvincing. This letter can only convince of the madness of the sender 🙂
If she decide to write, instead of an inflated opinion, she should have mentioned specific details, specific behaviors, specific events – facts that are difficult to argue with.
—–
The ending reminded me of one of N2 “promises”: “The meaning of my life will be to make yours miserable. I am so determined, that I will come back from the afterlife, especially for you.”
—–
PS I just found an old, long list of his “promises” and hateful insults, which I once wrote down, bulleted, copied and returned to the creative author in this form.
Words, that once hit my head like a huge metal hammer and deafened me for several days or weeks, and some of them filled me with fear, no longer make an impression on me today. This words became ordinary, common, meaningless. Then, I was silent, paralyzed with extreme surprise. If he dared today, it would not be safe for him to counter-react. I know how to bexaggerate his paranoia. And I know, how to put out.
He’s so nice, polite, boring and… generous.
I wish him to not be able to make me laugh and interesting anymore, but sometimes, just sometimes, he still manages to do it.
Poor Caroline eventually discovered that Fiona was right….
When he is evil, but sentence structure matters💌
Sir, you had me at „I write this letter (I stopped and pointed out that this was self-evident and superfluous)“…💘
I would have not been able to emotionally concentrate whilst thinking „He manages to make me smile even in devaluation“. (And I’d had plenty of sentence chaos in mine 💌👿💘)
But what an aware insight in Fiona’s insight! Is she a Magnet > Savior mix? Would Fiona be one of those former intimate partners who would actually recognise her own handwriting i.e. that she was married to HG Tudor if she came across this article? You said most wouldn’t, but are there others – whose names we already know through articles – who would put two and two together and realise that they are KTN-famous?
… Just finished listening to the Faye Interview Part 3 and Sir, you mentioned these fascinating aspects which you have also shared in the Psychopath Series!!
Your interest in information and learning, the triple tracking ability and the driving force which is unhindered by unnecessary ballast of unproductive emotional states; the interesting people which surrounds you and the circles you move in ― it all allows you to experience life to such a fuller extent other people cannot even begin to comprehend.
The realisation of the high level demand by the curiosity you possess, sort of renders you ’pure curiosity in human form’ perhaps… you either absorbed more of this energy than others upon your creation or you simply never lost it, as it happened with the majority of the human population on the surface of this planet.
You mentioned that there are many things that you haven’t yet uncovered or experienced „there are other worlds to look into“. Would you mind giving a tiny mini hint of what those worlds or things could be?
Thank you in advance!
So HG’s choice of IPPS isn’t always empath?! Or Fiona would have been the last one of that type in primary source?
An empath would have warned her otherwise. Knowing “imposing” this cruel reality too soon wouldn’t have met clarity. As having already experienced it (from an empath prism).
As she got her postal address, if she was really worried about her, she could have come over a few weeks or months later to seek for how she was. Nothing else if not needed.
Fiona seemed to be envious of the golden period Caroline was experiencing.
And indeed might have been looking out for a last attempt of control over HG’s life.
Is it safe to say the letter was a triangulation?
You need to read again.
Dear HG,
Was the promise/threat you made at the end, meant towards Fiona, Caroline, or both? Xx
Thank you, HG, for your time and replies xx
The confirmation (it was neither a promise nor a threat) is clear who it is directed towards.
It is clear, as you say, who the “just for you” is directed at, but you can read this in two ways: the actual behaviours described in the letter could be applied to Fiona only or, if you wanted to give her another dose of guilt and be really mean, you could be foreshadowing what is in store at some future point for Caroline as well, so that Fiona would know (or have it confirmed) and could not do a thing about it.
Dear HG,
Sorry my imagination again, wondering ET was imagining all kinds of ways you got back at Fiona and the things that might have happened to Caroline later in devaluation…which also would live up to what Fiona warned Caroline about….and now I see you said, “just for you” to Fiona…and yeah, sorry for my imagination skipping right over that, my head was all in the imagery…xx
As I see it, poor Caroline would’ve received her inevitable devaluation with or without Fiona’s warning. Unfortunately, her empath schools and cadres along with the golden phase she would’ve been in would’ve made her unreceptive to any such warning and more likely to present it to HG. He’d easily deflect such a critique by painting his ex wife as jealous, vindictive and/or crazy.
Fiona was the key victim of HG in this episode on her doorstep, as he demonstrated 1) she cannot win against him 2) she cannot have any impact on Caroline or her decisions and 3) her ‘suggestions’ will now make Caroline’s devaluation worse – leaving her (feeling) responsible for that extra pain.
I think there are three (technically four) authors of this letter.
TS, I’m intrigued. Do tell.
TS, can you elaborate? I curious.
Hi TS,
Is it the three that got away and Fiona?? Xx
Hi Leigh, Hi Joa,
We don’t know Fiona. She might be a psychologist. She might be a lawyer. She is likely highly educated. She is likely a SE Magnet given HG admits a preference for that combination of school and cadre. Let’s also assume that Fiona is independently wealthy and very well connected. She’s attractive and has her own set of well connected friends. She fits the profile for a Greater / Ultra narcissist.
She’s still an empath.
How would you write that letter? You take the risk to send it, so how would you convince Caroline that she needs to leave? I’d say, you make it personal. It would be unintentionally emotional and whilst you wouldn’t necessarily convey the full story of your relationship with HG, you would include specific personal experiences. It would be heart felt and hard hitting. For the most part this letter is too detached. It’s formal yes, but that’s not it. It feels like it is written by an observer.
This letter does contain elements of Fiona in my view. The first paragraph, the last long paragraph sounds more like the empath. Elsewhere, I think there is the odd line from Fiona but this is answered by embellishment from HG, the second author.
In places it reads like a psychological assessment, which again is answered with further embellishment. In my view these are comments made by the good doctors, (authors three / four) which threaten control because they didn’t go quite far enough, they aren’t quite accurate. This would irritate, so again they are expanded upon by HG.
To me this letter reads more like a compilation of comments that have been made in the past about HG. Some are from Fiona, some from the good doctors, and then there is clarification / embellishment from HG.
It could be argued that I don’t know Fiona, so how do I know what she would write in this kind of letter? That’s true, I don’t. That considered though, in my opinion this isn’t the hand of an empath, at least not for the most part.
Also, the letter was written on a single sheet of thick paper in elegant hand writing. The letter wouldn’t fit on a single sheet if it was hand written.
Bear in mind though, I am a horrible cynic!
Hope you are both well. Xx
Hi TS,
Maybe it’s a combination letter of what all the IPPS’s have said about HG to HG? Is what I was thinking….xx
Hi Rebecca,
I considered that too.
Xx
TS,
My mind is blown away right now! That’s a very interesting way of looking at it this letter. I hadn’t considered that it wasn’t written by Fiona. Very, very interesting. Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I’m going to reread it and mull it over some more.
It was written by Fiona, it was in her neat and tidy hand writing which easily fitted on to a sheet of A4 paper.
Thank you for clarifying, Mr. Tudor.
My cynical self stands neatly corrected!
PS: I appreciate your cynicism, TS. It offers a different view.
Hi Truthseeker,
I am also a ‘horrible cynic’, I’m afraid. I was probably ‘programmed’ with a healthy portion of scepticism, but family narcs and life in general has made me cynical. However, I am still an empath, and therefore I will also claim that this letter has not been written with the compassion and care an empath would have for another human being in this situation (which one would have to assume would have been the reason for writing it, although of course there could be an element of desired revenge involved as well).
Assuming Fiona is HG’s preferred combo of Super/Magnet makes it even less plausible. A strong trait of the Magnet is to share of their own experiences as a way of helping others – through words. This letter is entirely devoid of it. As you say, only the first and last paragraph show any trace of the writings of an empath. The rest is too clinical, factual and embellished. I completely agree with you that this letter has at least three authors and Fiona is only one of them – at most.
Hi, Scandi
Some questions:
1) What is it about the letter which indicates a lack of “compassion and care”? Are you referring to something evident in the surface of the text, something uncovered through a latent analysis, or something else?
2) If the letter wasn’t intended to help someone, what other intention(s) did Fiona have? How do we determine those?
3) “The rest is too clinical, factual and embellished.” Could you explain how something can be clinical/embellished or factual/embellished? I associate embellishment with something being decorative or having functionally unnecessary elements added to it. Clinical and factual things seem to be the opposite of this. Would you mind elaborating further?
Thank you for your time.
Hi Allison,
I will try my best to answer your questions, but bear in mind that English is not my first language… which actually brings me straight to your third question. From my point of view, one of the many strong points of HG’s impressive work is his ability to communicate this complex material in way that is easy to understand (also for those of us who are not native English speakers), which requires a high level of social intelligence and highly developed communication skills (something that for instance Sam Vaknin seems incapable of). I believe this ability is part of his success in this segment of his work (i.e. Knowing The Narcissist or ‘blog world’, as he calls it.)
However, in the series ‘The Asylum of the Grotesque’ his language (my perception) is more flowery, more complex and I have had to look up words from time to time. This type of language is also present in the letter from Fiona, which is what I mean by embellishment. At the same time the description of the narcissist and the narcissistic behaviour is very clinical/factual and detached, and as Truthseeker says, in places it reads almost like a psychological assessment.
This brings me to your first question, because what this letter does NOT contain (apart from the first and last paragraph) is any warmth and compassion, which I would expect to see (in some shape or form) bleeding through her writings, no matter how formal and factual she aimed to be. As an empath it is almost impossible to avoid it. I believe she has had help from a therapist (or similar) with her understanding of narcissism and advice on how to write such a letter – what to include and what to exclude (like her emotions and the word ‘narcissist’).
As for your second question, I believe Fiona must have had at least two different reasons for sending this letter. Yes, she had likely been deeply hurt by HG, and as an empath she wanted to help Caroline to avoid being hurt in the same way. But (as someone who has a strong sense of pride) I also think she wanted to show HG that he had not broken her, that she was still standing strong and that she could ‘give as good as you get’. She probably knew that HG would see this letter, no matter the outcome. He would either get it thrown in his face as Caroline exited the front door, suitcases in tow, or Caroline would present him with the letter, with tears in her eyes, not understanding how someone could be so cruel. Either way he would read it, hence the letter would have to impress him and hopefully hurt him as much as it would help Caroline. Evidently she didn’t achieve either.
Hello Scandi,
Thank you for sharing your thoughts. As for your cynical side, yep, family narcs will do it, every time! I’m learning to love my cynicism though, it can help keep us safe.
Yes, I agree with your thoughts on the Magnet cadre and this also factored into the thinking behind my original comment.
I don’t think we have spoken before. Nice to ‘meet’ you Scandi.
Xx
Hi Truthseeker,
I am so sorry for not introducing myself. I totally forgot you haven’t ‘met’ me before, as I feel like I know you already. The reason for this is the KHG forum that I have followed for many months. I have read all of your comments there. Many twice.
Actually, I will take this opportunity to thank you. First of all I want to thank HG, for making the KHG series and forum available to us in the first place, and then all of you hardcore truth seekers, you, Z, Narc Angel, FYC, WhoCares, FoolMe1Time and more for helping me through the toughest time of my life. Your different personalities, your sharp and inquisitive minds, your sense of humour and your empathy for each other got me through many sleepless nights. It started as a welcoming distraction and turned into an obsession, albeit a healthy and healing one, I believe. Thank you SO much!
As for the cynicism, I’ve also learned to appreciate it. It has helped me stare away from narcissistic intimate partners since my late 20s, and for that I’m truly grateful. What I wasn’t prepared for was the spider who seduced and ensnared my empath (now ex) husband after 23 (happy, or so I thought) years together. That’s what broke me. The family narcs I have learned how to deal with over the years. I packed up and moved to a different country when I finally had enough. Now my contact with them is limited to an absolute minimum. Turns out I took ‘GOSO’ very seriously before I even knew what it was lol. xx
Hi Scandi,
No need to apologise at all! What a lovely comment, thank you.
I’m really touched that you found comfort reading my thoughts and those of other amazing empaths on the blog. You reminded me that we never know, we never know who might be sitting reading our comments at a point where they feel their world is crumbling. The fact that our comments can offer comfort to someone else either immediately or years from now, is a really hopeful thought and is another way that the empath group as a whole benefits from the work HG puts into running this safe place.
Like you, I will always be grateful to those who hauled me along my recovery process when I first arrived here. The feeling that we aren’t alone in it is so very important. I am also forever grateful to HG for his body of work that helped me and others here to achieve freedom.
You must have been truly heartbroken Scandi. A whole world of plans and dreams destroyed by a narcissist playing cuckoo. I hope that what you learn here removes any shadow of doubt as to where the blame lies and enables you to shed the past and look to the future.
Thank you again Scandi, your comment really did touch me and is truly appreciated.
Xx
Thank you, Scandi, for taking time to reply. I would have had no idea that your first language isn’t English!
Your detailed response was most helpful in terms of understanding your post. I’m always intensely interested in how other people come to their determinations, so I want you to know how much I appreciate your engagement with me through my questions.
Initially, I found a familiarity in wording and cadence that caused some cynicism on my part also. This then lead me to believe the actual wording of the letter had perhaps been “cleaned up or improved upon” by HG to deliver a summation of all that we have learned here to greater effect through an actual interaction. Specific articles were even recalled to mind while reading. Since HG has confirmed that Fiona did indeed write the letter, I was left with the following scenarios:
Fiona either has, or developed in the time with HG (as some people in close relationships do), a remarkably similar communication style.
Fiona got a commendably accurate education in narcissism at that time and had help in constructing this letter by someone not emotionally invested and using logic (as I see has since been suggested).
A combination of both.
Hi NA,
I have even wondered if possibly HG took some of Fiona’s writing characteristics as his own, which would also likely result in the two sounding similar in cadence etc. And they were from a similar cultural background I think also, which would reinforce this as well. Just some thoughts I have had about this article.
Interesting thought, AV. Mr. Tudor has said in the past that he has acquired character traits from his appliances. Maybe he’s done that here too. They do sound very similar.
Hi Leigh,
That’s what I mean, 4 years in a marriage would be plenty of time to acquire a lot of character traits and if there were already similarities, due to similar schooling or upbringing, it would be easier.
To Rebecca,
“I think the letter was a real even, but didn’t HG say that Fiona really wrote the letter to see him again and it helping Caroline was just another, extra reason to write it?”
Yes, this is my understanding of what HG says also. I agree that the letter is real and was written by Fiona. 🙂
Hi NA,
Good to see you. Xx
Thank you. You as well TS.
NA,
The other possibility here is that Fiona wrote a letter to Caroline as an attempt to warn her about HG. The letter was received and read by Caroline who then handed it to HG just as described.
The letter itself is a sizeable threat to HG’s control on three counts.
1. Fiona had the audacity to write and send the letter in the first place.
2. HG didn’t anticipate that Fiona would write and send such a letter and therefore the letter actually reached the intended recipient.
3. Caroline then handed HG a letter he knew nothing about.
Given the level of threat to control, as the school of narcissist he is HG then undertakes a direct assertion of control by confronting Fiona, belittling her, belittling her new partner and issuing a threat.
Control asserted, at that point in time.
What happens though when HG recalls the same incident years later? The memory of those events is still a threat to his omnipotence though admittedly the threat to control was dealt with effectively at the time. Would a narcissist really describe the contents of the letter accurately given that it represented such a threat to control? Or, in the mind of the narcissist would the threat to control caused by the letter and its contents be revised by the narcissism? Essentially, the simplest explanation, the letter as recorded here sounds like HG because it is actually a revision of history?
TS, Leigh and AV,
I think the letter was a real even, but didn’t HG say that Fiona really wrote the letter to see him again and it helping Caroline was just another, extra reason to write it?
Also I was wondering if HG kept the letter as a reminder of Fiona’s betrayal, another betrayal against HG from her…HG, did you keep the letter? Xx
Hi Rebecca,
I think HG would view a letter of this type as a betrayal.
In terms of keeping the letter, that’s a good question. On the one hand it’s a reminder of a threat to control. The threat was dealt with, no need to keep the letter. On the other it’s proof of Fiona’s treachery so looking at the letter could serve the purpose of reigniting faded anger at a future point. With HG’s level of awareness that might be seen as potentially useful.
We are led to believe the letter was kept.
“before I smiled, folded the letter up, tucked it back into my pocket and then walked away into the damp night.”
1. Folded the letter up.
2. Tucked it back into my pocket.
3. Then walked away.
Our attention is drawn to the whereabouts of the letter. If the letter is kept then the natural assumption would then be that those were indeed the verbatim contents of the letter.
Alternatively, I might say the show of folding the letter and tucking not placing into a pocket was a demonstration to Fiona that “I’m keeping this.” A threat with a flourish.
I think the emphasis on the whereabouts of the letter at the end of the article could point to either scenario.
Xx
Hi TS,
I think HG still has the letter and uses it to probably hoover Fiona to this day, most likely stores it in his safe, kept from prying eyes. For his hands and eyes only, except on here. Xx
Hi NA! I have been thinking about you and it’s always good when you pop in. Hope your holidays were good. 😘❤️
Hi FM1T
The feeling is mutual. When I don’t see you about I picture you living in peace and enjoying the ponies. That is what I wish for you in any case.
I used to say that I considered the holidays a success if no blood was drawn haha. Now I say: Stay home where there is peace and quiet, leave the gatherings for the narcs to riot.
NA!! Yay! This is the only spot I could comment on, all the other comments from you have no place to reply. I agree with you on the holidays, I was home most of the day by myself and that suited me just fine. I didn’t find peace right away, it took me a good while to be ok with living on my own and learning to make decisions without being judged or shut down. I kept second guessing myself and at first wasn’t sure I could do it. It’s been a year and a half now on my own and I can honestly say I love it! I also have to thank HG. He stuck with me through it all and even helped me get through the doubts that I had about being on my own and my codependency. I went on a few dates mostly lunch dates but I have to tell you I even stopped doing that. I’m just not interested anymore. I like my freedom to much and I plan on keeping it that way. The ponies are just fine and as beautiful as ever. My son lives very close to wear they are located and I always get to see them when I go to visit him. I’m sorry this is so long but I am just so happy you popped up. Please take care Sista!! You’re the best!!😘❤️❤️🤗
Hi TS,
I think it’s a therapy exercise, when i was seeing a therapist, after LMRS, he gave me an assignment of writing a letter to LMRS, but not to mail it…Perhaps, she wrote a letter to HG and then wrote one to his new IPPS, with help from the therapist and mailed both, when she was directed not to mail them, for the consequences of doing so would defect the purpose of the assignment. Xx
Hi Rebecca,
I remember when I arrived in the US 16yrs ago. I was shocked by how many people had therapists. Even the babysitter I employed had a therapist!
In the UK it is still comparatively rare to hear of people having a therapist.
Xx
Hi TS,
It was a marriage counselor and MLS wanted marriage counseling…I wrote about it on the blog, I don’t know if you remember or not…xx But, he had me write a letter to some abusive people in my life, past and present, and was directed not to mail them. Xx
In every labor and delivery room in the US there’s a chair occupied by the infant’s initial Therapy Advocate. That person fills out all the forms for the parents who are undoubtedly about to screw little Johnny or Jennifer up. They also take photos of the mother’s nether regions as the child emerges for documentation of the birth trauma. By the time the child enters third grade the long-term therapist is in place, ready to assist in mental hygiene monitoring.
It’s a good system, and I’m not about to sit around here, 6157–if that is your real name–and let you throw shade at these United States! Not while this patriot bleeds red, white, and blue! Sic semper tyrannis!
God Bless America, and God Bless our precious bodily fluids!!!!
Hi Rebecca, hi Allison,
Allison you made me giggle there. To clarify, in terms of therapy, I’m neither for nor against. I think a competent therapist could be incredibly helpful, a bad therapist dangerous.
The difference between the two countries did strike me though. I lived in three States over a ten year period and it was similar in each. Having a therapist was fairly routine and it’s something I hadn’t encountered back home.
Rebecca I do remember you talking about marriage counselling. Did you find the letter writing helpful?
Xx
Hi TS,
No, the letter writing wasn’t that helpful to me because for me, it brought up my ET and made me want to confront LMRSN, which would have allowed me to enter another sphere of influence to LMRSN and I believe the letter had me entering the first sphere…thinking of the narc…which isn’t helpful at all, really. So, no the letter didn’t help and I told the theraptist, no too. Xx
I can think of LMRSN and not want to see him, talk to him or have anything to do with him. Just like my ex husband, I feel no attachment to either one of them now. I pushed, pushed, pushed them out so many times, out of my mind, my heart, my dreams, that the thought of them, falls apart like burnt ashes. Ashes, what they are now to me, where they stay….and I hope one day, to say the same for my mother and brother, though my love for them remains…I guess I loved them for so long, that the bonds are still there in death…no, I know it’s because I still feel bonded to them, the chains are still there. Xx
Hi Rebecca,
Thank you for your response, I was curious about the letter writing. I have heard of it before as an exercise therapists sometimes ask clients to do.
Family narcs feel different somehow. The blood being thicker than water thing probably. If you want to break the chains, then the chains will break in time I think. Maybe there is more than one link that needs breaking.
Xx
Hi Rebecca,
I remember once on the blog, when I said I wanted to start writing about my life, Mr. Tudor advised against it. He told me it would raise my ET.
I was just thinking this morning that I wonder if it was ET that made Fiona actually send the letter to Caroline. Was it a therapeutic exercise that went wrong? Did writing this letter cause Fiona’s ET to spike and cause her to want to interact with Mr. Tudor?
TS and Leigh,
Leigh, I do think Fiona’s ET played a part in her mailing the letter, 100%. Our ET is what drives us into the spheres of influence with a narc. Her ET worked against her and she paid dearly. She’s probably still feeling those flames now. Xx
HG,
How long has Fiona been burning now? Xx
TS,
I think I’m haunted by my mother and brother because I won’t release the anger, guilt and shame that goes with the resentment and love I still have for them. I can’t let them go and I keep trying. Xx
Hi Leigh,
That makes a lot of sense! Thank you for sharing that thought!
Hi Rebecca,
Your comment about your mother and brother makes me think that your logical side is battling your emotional side.
A starting point might be to ask yourself what it is about your mother and brother that you love or think you love? I’m not asking for a response to that question at all, it’s just a question that you might ask yourself. Then, look at your response or responses to it and decide whether you think what it is you love about them is based on something genuine in them.
So I might say, “My mum used to sing a song to me as she was dropping me off at kindergarten and jogging me up the driveway.” I might therefore see that as a positive childhood experience. But then I could ask myself, why do I think she did that? Was it compassion, love, concern that I was nervous about going in? Or was it for a different, more self serving reason?
Examining the reasons behind any positive feelings you have for your mother and brother might help you see things more clearly and systematically loosen the ties that bind you to them emotionally.
Xx
Hi TS,
I just saw your Feb 12th reply. I often feel my ET fights with my LT in my head. I think you’re right about that. You gave me a valuable point to think on, why do I still love them? The good memories and famiy bond…why did they do those things with me? I see what you mean….manipulations…
Things I must reason out, without letting my emotions involved in the thinking…difficult, but doable with hard work for me.
The same goes for splitting with MLSN, I have to wrestle with my feelings, self doubt and fear. I don’t like to purposely hurt someone, but I have to in order to move forward. The future is so scary and uncertain, makes me very afraid and anxious. I’m not used to being alone, it’s my biggest fear. Xx
Hi Rebecca,
I read your comment on a different thread about leaving MLSN and your thoughts here.
Your concerns are valid. Renting is expensive and financially less savvy than buying your own home. You bought your home, it’s only natural that you should feel frustrated at the likelihood of losing it.
It is scary to think about being on your own. There are no guarantees as to when and if your alone status might change.
Friends can be unreliable. Plenty of people make helpful noises but few follow through.
In my view you are right to have these concerns, they must be considered and planned for.
Don’t forget about the upside though.
Peace of mind, escape from abuse I agree these are upsides but for some, these things are hard to visualise. It’s my understanding that there are no children to consider in your equation. This means you only have yourself to look after. Look at it differently, which State would you live in if you could live in any State? Are there cheaper, more enticing places to live than where you live now? Could you apply for jobs online in these locations? It’s an exciting prospect, just you, free to start wherever you dream of starting. Maybe a cheaper area would facilitate a lower salary or even a complete career change.
I love moving. I’ve moved around a lot and it’s exciting arriving in a new location with a clean slate. No one knows you, no one knows about you, apart from what you choose to tell them. A chance to be whoever you want to be. That’s part of what freedom feels like I think. New places, new people, new experiences, no one to answer to. Even if you didn’t move straight away, you have the option to move in the future, could take your time about finding the ideal place and the ideal job, spend what you earn for a while, then get serious!
The other thing I think we forget is the passage of time. Now you are ok, now you are coping with MLSN. But how does it look ten years from now? What if he chips away at you further? What if the stress of him makes you ill, or damages your self confidence to such an extent that the obstacles of today seem ten times greater in the future? We forget about how things could develop and we make decisions based on things as they are now, not as they might become. What you do know is that he won’t get any better, potentially he could get far worse.
I do get it. It is scary, change in itself is often scary for people. Try not to get dragged down by perceived loss and instead, try to visualise all of the possibilities just waiting for you once you are free. We are a product of our past to an extent, but I don’t believe for one second we can’t act to change our future.
Dare to dream Rebecca 😊
Xx
Hi HG, TS, AspEmp, Bubbles, AV, WhoCares, Joa, Leigh and anyone I missed…
I’m so excited to tell you all how busy I’ve been with planning.. buckle up HG, it’s going to be a long one.xx..
I’ve been discussing with two friends, close friends, about moving options. 1) Possible option is to move to another state, where my friend lives, transfer my job to the other state and move into a rental house she owns.
2) Option would be stay in this state, but look for a rental property with a friend and temporarily move in with her in her current place, which would be on the sofa for now.
We decided to go rental property shopping together. So, that’s where I’m at. I really want to get out, I just don’t want to be careless about it.
TS,
MLSN and I didn’t have kids, he had kids with his ex, not me. I do have a dog, but both friends know I can’t leave my little boy/ doggie. He’s a little guy and only gets mad at middle finger gestures at him and telling him he needs a bath. He’s spoiled, grumpy and precious. Xx
Anyway, I remain hopeful and determined, and also was excited to tell HG! 😄
The other thing, situation at work…it’s been resolved and it wasn’t even me they were looking at. I worried for nothing…so that’s a relief too! I feel so much better today, more myself and hopeful! Xx
Rebecca,
I’m so happy to read this! Freedom is possible!
Rebecca, this is very exciting! I hope one of these situations works out for you, or something even better! Thanks for the update!
Rebecca,
That’s really great news. Keep the momentum going! This is an opportunity to really think about what you want and where you want to be. Out of state has advantages in terms of putting distance between you and the narc and the feeling of a completely fresh start. Staying in state is more familiar and has more consistency on the job front. Fully explore the options then you can weigh the pros and cons. There will always be obstacles but certain obstacles will feel easier than others, only you can decide that.
You go girl! Have at it!! Xx
Rebecca, great!
I admire you for your determination and courage. Making plans is the first step. Keep this level.
Didn’t you have two dogs?
Yay, Rebecca!!!! I’m doing a happy dance for you. I just fled the coop as well. Good on you, babe!
Hi Joa,
Thank you, Ive had many plans, none came to fruit…hope this new one works. Xx
Yes, I had two dogs, I lost one. I have the brother, lost his sister. They were both older dogs. I had to put her down, due to bladder and hip issues. Her brother misses her. He has separation anxiety when I leave for work. I leave him a blanket with my scent on it, it seems to help him. He’s getting better. I thought about getting another friend for him, but thought better of it…being in the situation I’m in, it may add more problems. I hope it’s the right thing not to get another dog right now. I worry about these things too. Xx
Your type of fury is of course different, HG, but I think most people would feel a degree of fury if their former spouse wrote such a letter to the current partner after an acrimonious divorce. Do you find it at least a little bit amusing that Fiona wrote “He cannot be controlled, he cannot be conquered, he cannot be changed.”, when these are just the things you are apt to do yourself?
My end observation in the article demonstrates what I thought of it.
Not really, and it is a very juicy worm you are dangling there in front of me, but I am going to pass on it for now.
“I just dropped by to thank you for this glowing reference and to remind you that I will be living up to everything you wrote about me, just for you,”
Out of context, this is a beautiful warm-hearted declaration.
Fiona was much more aware of what had hit her than I was after my ex left. It took me years to sort through and in fact, finding HG’s work was highly instrumental in my sorting. It makes me wonder what happened that Fiona understood HG so well and could see it with such clarity. Maybe she isn’t an ACON.
I hope Caroline didn’t kick herself too hard later, when she realized the truth in that letter.
Hi AV,
I wondered the same thing. What did Caroline think when she realized Fiona was telling the truth???
Hi Leigh,
I also wondered why Fiona wasn’t too terrified of HG to write a letter like that, I would never have done it. But it sounds like her follow up guy was a lot different from HG, so maybe Fiona is a narc also. Or maybe she felt safe because they were already divorced. Nice to see you Leigh, hope all is well.
Fiona is a not a narcissist. I do not take narcissists as IPPSs.
HG,
Oh yes, how could I forget that (you don’t take narcissists as IPPSs)! Thank you for reminding me!
Hi Leigh,
I think the reason Fiona wasn’t extremely afraid of HG is because he doesn’t do physical violence on women, and I believe she still was wary of HG and a bit apprehensive about talking with HG, but she’s not a narc for knowing HG well. Xx
Hi Rebecca, yes, I knew Fiona couldn’t be a narc but had forgotten. I’m still curious how she knew so clearly and wrote it out so succinctly.
Sorry, meant to address my previous comment to Leigh and AV. Xx
Hi Rebecca and AV,
It never crossed my mind that Fiona was a narc. I knew she was an empath.
My question was about Caroline and what she thought once she realized Fiona was right. Did she beat herself up for not listening to Fiona?
Hi AV,
Perhaps Fiona was the college girlfriend he mentioned, the one who told him she suspected him of being a narcissitic psychopath….maybe he hoovered her later and married her? Just a thought… Perhaps she has a degree in psychology? Xx
Hi Rebecca,
It is possible, I think in my memory she wasn’t that girlfriend, but my memory could be wrong. Or I misunderstood along the way. Even if she is not that girlfriend, she could still have been a psychologist or in another profession that helped her understanding, that is true. Hope you’re doing well Rebecca!
I had considered she was the college girlfriend too.
Hi AV,
There’s been so many comments flying around lately. I can’t keep up, lol! Its nice to see you too!
After reading it again, I wonder if Fiona is majority Savior?
Hi Leigh,
I am majority Savior and I’ve never had any desire to save my ex’s other women, not before, during or after. But, I’m not a Super/Magnet blend, as I suspect Fiona is, so maybe that would alter how Savior behaves.
Hi AV,
Maybe Fiona has Martyr too? It seems like she wrote this letter without concern with what would happen to her.
Hi Leigh,
I had a couple of friends, who warned me about LMRS and I didn’t believe them and wouldn’t listen…in fact, stopped being friends with them after they did some things to me, in addition to their warnings about LMRS…I had mixed feelings about them, after I found out the truth. I didn’t try to be friends with them again, didn’t feel grateful to their warnings because of the things they did…I blamed myself in the end. I felt everything was me for the longest time and I still blame me, when things go wrong. I see my part, so it’s my fault. Xx
Yes, I often blame myself too and I would’ve blamed myself for not heeding the warnings.
Hi AV and Leigh,
We won’t know if we’re right , or not, unless HG tells us. 😁xx
HG,
Are we right? Xx
Leigh,
My 10:36 reply was to the name of HG’s girlfriend question…just to explain that comment. Xx
Beyond HG’s part in the matter (begging your pardon for neglecting you for the moment, HG, this is just my first reaction), when you walk into a relationship with a mindset of seeing it as desirable for your lover to be controlled, conquered, changed by you, you are bound to fall flat on your face, and rightly so. That is not the description of a partnership.
Mmm…I do adore this series…
Mr. Tudor,
Thank you for sharing a piece of your history. Once Caroline was in devaluation, did she remember that letter from Fiona? Did she wish that she had been heedful of Fiona’s advice?
1. Yes.
2. There was a mixed response in that regard.
Thank you for your response, Mr. Tudor.