Heavy Lies the Narcissist´s Crown
Heavy lies the crown that sits atop my head as I look out upon my kingdom. Inside my gilded tower I remain, behind those fearsome double doors that are locked four times and triple-barred. I sit on my throne which has been fashioned from the souls that I have stolen and bound to this edifice of dark steel and jagged glass. I hear the low moan of their captivity as I sit and regard my lands which stretch away north, east, south and west. From this vantage point I see all things and I am seen by all, reminding them of who I am and why I am their better.
I am chosen to lead and rule and they must always exhibit suitable respect and loyalty to me or suffer the same fate of those who know provide my seat. I know there are pretenders out there who would seek, through their perfidious ways to storm my citadel and unseat me. I know their plans. I know their schemes of treason, their seditious whispers come my way, carried to me by my ever loyal crows that flit hither and thither spreading my dark message and feeding me the responses which I greedily feed on by way of much needed sustenance.
I know too well that there are those who would come like a thief in the night and seek with malicious aforethought to slit my throat and leave me bleeding to death, my life leaking from me from their numerous puncture wounds and thus I must maintain my defences and seek out these disloyal foes. I know their game and I have them in my eye. They cannot reach me here though.
My dedicated Lieutenants guard the route to this citadel and they will reject all those who approach me with false intentions. I know they will not swerve from protecting their master for I fashioned them in my own image in order to enable them to fulfil their roles. Equipped with blackened weapons that slice and tear they will cut down any who dare to cause me harm.
None are able to land that fatal blow against me though. I am wise to their plans of harm and assassination and I scent their scandalous treachery dripping like ichor from them as easily as I might detect the aroma of the lily or the honeysuckle.
Heavy lies the crown that rests upon my head for I bear the burden of many about me. It is not easy guiding and corralling those souls that look to me for protection and enlightenment. How they flock to my citadel when I stand at my balcony and allow them the grace of my golden rule.
They bow down before me by their thousands their admiration and gratitude palpable and allowing me to drink deep of their worship. In return I ensure that these dedicated subjects experience a golden era, an epoch of bounty and elation and so they continue to gather beneath me on bended knee hoping for a glance of their most excellent ruler. It is no role for those of a faint heart.
Those who lack fortitude cannot sit on this throne for only the mighty and the blessed are capable of seizing the hopes of a thousand thousand followers and allowing them their time in the sun. Only he who is venerated and of such elevation can provide such succour to the many who clamour for that guidance in such dark times. My bounty allows them to flourish as they tend to these fertile lands.
My leadership provides them with the reason to till the land, sow their seeds and gather the fruits of the kingdom in my name. It is only through my benevolence that such a period of plenty can flourish.
Often I must consign some of them to shadow, snuffing out the golden shaft of light which illuminated their world. I do so with a heavy heart for they showed me some service but now they offer me little and as such they must understand that such grace and beauty is within my gift and as I grant it, I can deny it.
Their wails and howls of pain and protest always confirm my decision was the right one and I take great sustenance from their misery. Still, such is the mighty attraction of one like me that they do not depart or slink away to far flung lands but instead they remain, bearing the torture and calling out to me, begging for my forgiveness and pleading for the restitution of my golden reign.
I am not an evil man, though many spread such lies that I am and as such I will, from time to time, allow that life-giving and benevolent golden light to grace their lives once again and their relief and gratitude is most edifying.
Each and every day I must sit on this throne atop my mountain-dwelling citadel and ensure the welfare and good order of my subjects to ensure that the daily harvest is strong, plentiful and potent.
Few can do this with the effectiveness that I can. I have yet to meet them but I know they exist, governing lands far from my own in a manner that is so similar to my own. Each and every day I must consign some subjects to shadow and shame, each and every day I must return others to the fold. They cannot exist without me and I cannot exist without them. I am their king, I and the land are one.
Today heavy lies the crown atop my head but I know that come tomorrow the harvest will be even greater and thus recharged I will alleviate the weight and lift my head to allow my eyes both golden and black to look each and every one of my subjects in the eye as if to ask them what will they do for me today.
Heavy lies the burden that they will carry for their king.
Heavy lies their obligation to their monarch.
Heavy lies the invisible yoke about their necks and the chains which I shall yank in order to ensure that tomorrow this heavy weight will be heavy no more.
64 thoughts on “Heavy Lies the Narcissist´s Crown”
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Ps I was looking through your shop on YT, HG and wanted to suggest a balaclava. I think it would be in keeping with your brand. What do you think? 🥷
Only if they get the merino in.
I like your style, Mr Tudor 🧐😄
Thank you.
Hello HG:
Dying to know:
During the Epstein interview by Banning. Banning asks him “ Are you Satan?”
Oddly Epstein responds, “ No but I do have a good mirror.”
Mirroring is discussed in Narcissism.
1. Was Epstein saying he mirrored Satan? Which is interesting since his financial backer Werner said he was a gollum in the 80s because of his insatiable greed. Not to mention the weird temple on Epstein island with weird gargoyle s and cows)
Then Epstein was asked again if Epstein was Satan?
He says “ no, he scares me.”
2. Do you think Epstein met Satan?
1. No. He was deflecting by acknowledging how monstrous he appears to others whilst denying the supernatural identity.
2. No, Satan is a construct.
Hello HG:
Tough question:
1. Are the leaders driven by money and power v idealist/ zealots?
2. I guess you could go back for 100s of years but why do men with great wealth still feel the need to garner further wealth?
3. Are they all psychopaths?
4. Are some religious nuts?
5. What drives a religious zealot like kholmeini ? I can hear you say control.
6. But is the control money or power the primary drive meaning wealth or ideology?
7. Are these religious leaders typically narcs or psychopaths or both?
1. There are a variety of factors which drive leaders.
2. Accumulation.
3. Are all leaders psychopaths? No.
4. Some will use religious zealotry as the vehicle to acquire power, recognition, attention and wealth.
5. Nothing at present given that he was disincentivised. When he was alive, the driver depends on what he was.
6. For who?
7. Many are narcissists or psychopaths, but there are religious leaders who are neither.
Enough contemplating! I’ve made something for you throughout my mind landslide of contemplations, spreading smiles one scoop at a time, Mr Ice Cream Delivery Man.
Music by me, no AI. Video by AI.
Serving happiness, extra cold: (hope the link works)
🤣🤣🤣 spot on👍 I hope by ice-cream he indeed means ice-cream.
Love this Jordy! 🍨🍦I think if HG were delivering ice creams, a rifle would be his serving option! 😄 amiright HG?! I like your music too Jordy.. fitting.
PS HG, after reading someone say how you dealt effectively with a negative comment recently, I dreamt we were all in your house but you were like a ghost .. we never saw you, but we were all in different rooms doing our thing and you were just “around” but never seen. It actually felt nice. Maybe I’m feeling better here (or maybe I’ve taken too many drugs!). 🤣
😂😂😂
*Identity equals copy and paste, learned behaviour repeated over a sustained period of time, giving a sense of self, an operational system. It can be backed up either by emotional or cognitive empathy. A primate can basically achieve it. Instincts plus learned, copied and repeated behavioural patterns, likes, dislikes, expectations and performance for the sake of survival. Short lifespan, repeated fates, repeated outcomes, no real change.
*Self equals a battery which powers the identity. A self can survive without an identity, but the identity cannot survive without the self. If the battery is barely functioning, the resource for survival is sought elsewhere (for all the categorisations of the spectrum). But since the batteries of others are barely functioning as well (neediness meets neediness), people run out of life pretty quickly. Pretty ill lives, it should be added. Sorry, I cannot sugarcoat it.
Some people present like placebos. There is no energy circulating within them whatsoever. Yet they also seem not to need it. Almost zombie like. The most basic material needs are what they are after, and that is all. I am not even sure which category they would fall into.
Certain narcissists, or the narcissistic psychopath, do not always present like a placebo. There is an interesting awareness in some of them. They look down on almost everyone, yet it is not as though they are entirely wrong as to what makes them react.
What is interesting is the drive within some of them. They are compelled to hunt for something, not just fuel, beyond the average, almost like a wake up call for humanity. If they indulge too much in their instincts and grandiosity, they can do truly horrible things to others. If they harness those indulgences, however, they can accomplish incredible things.
Their challenge is that they despise humanity, and I can understand that. Humanity is a shared result of all who participate. A victim mentality would be to place the responsibility solely on one side of the equation.
If the empath or the normal were self aware, they would recognise where they behave identically to the one they accuse. In that regard, they mirror the narcissist’s victim mentality. Their wound blinds them to the same extent.
Part three.
No matter how many identities, especially in the intimate realm, you attach to by way of extension, the rejection of the transplanted foreign organ occurs sooner or later. The moment of stale fuel arrives. It no longer energises you as before. The steps taken to squeeze the last delicious drops through devaluation are understandable. In the realm of energy, attention equals energy. Energy is what you are after, because it is something every human being is made of. The energetic component, however, is hidden from our understanding, which makes it easier to control people, as they do not know where to look. The ties to the individual energy source, the original self, are severed, so the dynamic of colliding individuals remains one of lack. Lack is the goal of this dynamic. One takes, the other gives, from lack, by pulling the strings of identity and the physical component through cultivated psychological and physiological addictions.
However, the potential of your original energetic component, your own self, is in reality so vast that your “no off switch” hints at the possibilities you try to obtain through the accumulation of an endless number of sources. What you subconsciously believe they can repair, they cannot. They function as mirages because they are not compatible with your unique energetic and physical conglomeration. Likewise, you cannot become their original source, even if you perfectly mirror their identity needs. It is not substantial on either side.
Nor can an empath replace the self of another empath. Yes, there may be less conflict and apparent compatibility, yet something will still be lacking if they approach their bond from a place of lacking their own stable energy source. Their identities do not equal a proper connection to their own selves and are therefore easy to manipulate, which is the sign that they operate from lack.
You know what is interesting, having listened to the Creature related material again, is that when I “dream” you, I see basically one major event which caused the loss of the self. One event which caused it. The ongoing mistreatment after that event did not form or contribute to the loss of the self. The pain of losing the self was so immense in that single instance that it set the parameters of perception for all events that followed, that is to say, experiencing the original event as recurring, while creating the illusion that the cause of the wounding lies in each new event afterwards, thus creating the cumulative effect.
All the events line up and appear to cause wounding each time, but in reality you are looking at every situation through the lens of one major and most painful event, the loss of the self, and that creates the wounding and everything you describe in the Creature related material. The Creature represents the memory of this immense and painful separation from the self, and the memory of it causes excruciating pain. Thus you have to banish all empathy related regions and never enter them, because your original sensitivity, before the separation from the self, was higher in intensity. The potential for major perceptive abilities was greater, and what remained of it is curiosity and other interesting moments.
The accumulation of appliances, especially intimate ones, becomes the avenue for creating an extension of the self, constructing the self you do not have access to. There is a ban on feeling it because it is connected to that immense pain of forced separation.
It is as if, if the major event that caused the separation from the self were disempowered and the energy lines keeping the memory alive were cut, the self would be set free and become one with you again. You would no longer rely on extensions that the construct depends upon to shield you from the painful memory of that major loss.
From my personal experience, I was fighting to keep the self. I did not cut the connection to it fully, but it almost was severed. The pressure and outer confusion created by the people around you, who are separated or almost separated from their selves and run on irrational programmes, was something I could clearly perceive. Yet to survive amongst them, their collective energetic mass forces the individual to cut off from the self, which in its original state does not require their guidance on how to perceive the world. Through which filters.
They compel you to adapt to a form of survival that they dictate, not because they have any real understanding of what is best for you or for themselves, but simply because they follow the collective aftermath of being separated from their own selves.
Hello Jordy,
Interesting posts. I have got a question.
“The Creature represents the memory of this immense and painful separation from the self, and the memory of it causes excruciating pain. Thus you have to banish all empathy related regions and never enter them, because your original sensitivity, before the separation from the self, was higher in intensity.”
If he was born as a psychopath (meaning some parts of brains responsible for empathy, fear etc are low functioning or not activated at all), how then what you describe is valid? He had no empathy from the start, so banishing all empathy could have not occurred. Plus, codependent empath has a creature according to Chained. And they have empathy. It means creating of the creature doesn’t effect emotional empathy. It’s neither a prerequisite for its creation nor it removes the empathy in individual.
I don’t understand how a psychopath can become a narcissist if he has no empathy to begin with and empty inside.
Codependent empath is even more confusing to me. So they have a creature with no construct, they are failed narcissists, therefore co-ed always need narcs, particularly narc’s construct to shield themselves. Okay. Then Codependent empath is the one who has the majority, meaning 50% and above. So if an empath has 49% co-ed it doesn’t have creature, and with 50% it does? No smooth transition, just bam and it’s there. Or with 49% , empath has a creature but it’s barely alive?
Great question❣️ and well observed, thank you! Here is what I think happens.
I need to go back a bit via Congenital insensitivity to pain = is the inability to feel pain from injuries, burns or infections. Because pain is a vital warning signal, individuals with this condition often suffer from serious, unnoticed injuries, broken bones and severe infections. In other words, these individuals will never experience what it feels like to feel pain. Pain cannot be explained to them. They have no experience or memory of what it feels like to have pain and then no pain. They cannot hold one experience against another.
The moment a narcissist experiences pain (threat, collapse) and is psychologically hurt when wounded hints at something else. It suggests the existence of a memory of feeling the opposite, of once feeling whole and unthreatened. They seek to repair a fracture, to repair something of which they hold a subconscious memory that was once intact, not injured. However, they attempt to repair the false self instead, the mask, the identity, the construct.
It is only a very small sign, but if they can feel pain (Creature), they hold an opposite memory, an experience that stands against the experience of pain and fracture. Being separated from the self as a child, confused to the point where one cannot hold on to a stable reality, usually happens where perceptive abilities are very open.
A stone would not react to being punched. But something very soft would react extremely painfully to the same punch. To shut those doors, to avoid being flooded by something overwhelming, the psyche performs a clean cut. Yet the memory remains. The Creature is the wound, the memory of separation from something that once felt whole and was brutally taken away.
I think that, in order to develop narcissism, one has to begin with the same initial starting point as everyone else.
In some older comments, HG explained that the chances of a person becoming a narcissist, a SE or a CoD were equal when facing abuse and LOCE. Certain factors simply intervened and placed them on opposite sides of the fence, but initially their chances were the same.
Hi Arya,
I saw a recent post from you on the Questioning Me thread but I can’t seem to find it again. You were talking about having been out with someone recently and realising that he was another narc. You were relieved that you were able to spot him early, but frustrated that you seem to draw narcs to you when you want to avoid them.
I think you are bleeding into shark invested waters. When our ET is high, we seem to signal more clearly what we are and are more easily spotted. The problem is not you. The problem is that you are not yet recovered, your ET is still high and needs to drain away further. Be patient with yourself, give yourself the time you need to fully recover and become used to being alone and enjoying your own company. Once you are happy to be just with yourself I think that is the signal that tells you that you are ready to get out there and begin dating again.
I can understand your frustration, you want to avoid what is harmful to you and yet it feels like every time you turn round what is harmful is stood right there. It won’t always be like that, you won’t always bleed into the water. Narcissists will continue to be drawn to you, that’s just part of being what you are but you won’t suffer that to the intensity you are now once you are fully recovered.
I think it’s great that you recognised your own ET in play with the last guy. ET reacts quickly, an early warning system that kicks in before we even get chance to recognise the red flags sometimes. Trust it. The fact you can recognise it in yourself is likely your greatest defence.
I don’t know if you have listened to this video. I know the title doesn’t match how you feel, but the information within it is relevant to your situation I think.
Be patient with your own recovery, the problem isn’t you, it’s just timing. Xx
https://youtu.be/LhHfQZcRcls?si=wzU05SoySoSLE9LU
Hello TS,
Yes, I realize that my ET is high. I wasn’t looking for anyone, I told him that from the start. He just found the way. “Relieved” is not a proper word for what I feel right now. I’m hurt.
Side note: I’m sitting right now at airport, waiting for a flight, my colleagues went shopping, right now a smiling man came to me, greeting and he just brought wine in duty free, and asked if I want. He talked to me like we know each other. I though he is in our group , but no, he told me I was talking to him when going though security I don’t remember him. He went to buy chocolate. This is typical.
Anyway, I don’t think I would ever be happy, with myself or with someone. Plus, I need a regular sex partner. A good one. Maybe once I hit menopause or smth I will manage to be happy without a man, just by myself.
Yes, I saw this video. This is not me.
I thought this blog is about narcissists and narc abuse. My questions are kept ignored. Whatever. Thank you for your reply, TS, but I really don’t feel like posting anything here right now. Waste of time.
Hi Arya,
First, I’m sorry you feel your questions are not being answered. For my part, if I have missed any of your responses to me, it isn’t intentional.
“Anyway, I don’t think I would ever be happy, with myself or someone.” Why do you think that Arya?
And, just to clarify, I understand your desire to find a sexual partner. I’m not suggesting that you should stay celibate indefinitely, just, as HG recommends in that video, six months or so to allow ET to fall then you can safely get back out there and look for someone new.
Your airport encounter made me chuckle. I swear, when we aren’t looking we get all kinds of offers. Maybe ‘not interested’ is interpreted as ‘challenge’ to some people / narcissists.
I hope you continue commenting Arya.
Baby, oh nooo! Who is ignoring your questions? We will find them, replace their sugar with salt, and paint a freaky moustache on them while they are sleeping!
Do not be sad. I feel like many of the videos that have been coming out recently are dealing with the very things you are challenged with at the moment. I know how difficult what you are going through is, and I do not want to make it sound like, “Oh, you will be fine.” It is a very hard job, and it can take a veeeery long time.
Do not put extreme expectations on yourself, okay? 💖💖💖
Morning affirmation💆♀️
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/3QEEMxJL254
Arya, you are hilarious, you crack me up.
First of all, I’m sorry you were about to get ensnared by a narcissist again. Good on you for catching him in time. I think that’s actually a really good thing. You left the ship before it sank. You should give yourself a pat on the back for that.
Why do you need a regular sex partner? Do you need to be in an actual monogamous relationship, or do you just want to have regular sex with a guy who is good in bed, no strings attached?
I don’t get the whole sex thing. Sure, it’s fun. It can be anyway. But it also comes with so many problems, which is why I am more than happy to stay away from it.
What’s the difference between sex and masturbation, since both can give you orgasms?
Hello TS,
No, regarding the questions, it wasn’t directed to you. I’m able to comment only when VPN is on, and sometimes it doesn’t work (cause RTN keeps blocking them), though it shows it’s on. So I often don’t even know whether my comments have been sent or not. Maybe they weren’t or maybe they are still in moderation. But, anyway, I’m taking my words/accusation back, he does answer most of the time.
I don’t know how to determine if my ET is reasonably low.
Airport, yes, I tend to attract strange people and get into various situations. Agree, some people do not take “not interested” too well. They act like I owe them smth.
Hey Jordy,
Morning affirmations killed me 🤣🤣🤣
Moisturize and suffer – me 100%
What is your retirement plan – death. 🤣
Sorry, I didn’t reply earlier. I have just found the replies to me on this thread. I missed them somehow.
You won’t be able to complete a freaky moustache, he would wake up and then you would very much regret. So don’t take a risk, please. I’m worried about you❤️.You have already tricked his butler and camped at his place. He doesn’t forget things, you know, he remembers.
Regarding videos, yes, I have noticed too. For a split second, I thought, maybe he has an emotional empathy. My ET never sleeps. Agree, they are very useful and I have re-listened some of them, so they would sicked in. I’m grateful for those videos.
Yes, I’m trying not to be sad. Your post made me smile and laugh ❤️❤️❤️ so thank you very much. It seems you are never sad. Always in a good mood. I want to be like that.
Hello AmusedEmpath 😊,
Thank you and I’m glad it made you laughed.
Yeah, I got into alert mode, when after 5-10 mins of talking to him and he opened a bottle, me thinking he is one of us, I realized he is a random stranger.
On that narcissist (presumably), yes, I feel way better now. It was for a short period, but I was just surprised how fast he occupied my thoughts and eveything went from all being great to a total trash in a matter of a few days.
Sex and me. A new book, find on Amazon for just 4.99.
I’m joking, no one would read that.
Well, sex is very important to me. Why? Probably, because I have high libido and love sex. Plus, I have almost always had a regular one, so in a way, my body physically demands it.
“Why do you need a regular sex partner? Do you need to be in an actual monogamous relationship, or do you just want to have regular sex with a guy who is good in bed, no strings attached?”
– “Good in bed” is very different for everyone. For me to qualify a parter as a good one – is a rare thing. I can name only two in my life.
– post divorce, I thought I needed NSA relationship. But after certain experiences, I came to conclusion, it doesn’t work for me. So yes, I need a monogamous relationship, where I can trust my partner. Without trust, I cannot be fully myself in bed. Also, I don’t like condoms, I’m not used to them. They kill not only physical pleasure, something else for me.
“I don’t get the whole sex thing. Sure, it’s fun. It can be anyway. But it also comes with so many problems, which is why I am more than happy to stay away from it.”
Maybe you just have never met a right partner. Do you have any sexual fantasies?
I would not call sex – fun. It’s much more than that for me.
“What’s the difference between sex and masturbation, since both can give you orgasms?”
Well, to me it’s a huge difference. I don’t want to go in details, but a toy for sure, cannot replace a man, at least, for me. If it works for you, then you are lucky. I’m actually suffering right now.
But better no sex, than a bad one.
Lol, Sex and Me by Arya for $4.99 on Amazon? I would definitely read that! Sounds like good fun.
Did you sleep with the suspected narcissist before you dumped him, or did he get into your head just by talking?
I have low libido, it fluctuates, but I love sex. I’ve had periods where I had regular sex, but at the moment I’m very thankful not to have any at all. It’s just too demanding all over.
Honestly, I’m not sure whether I could have a no-strings-attached thing going on. After a few times of having sex, I usually fall in love or form some kind of attachment. I can also be jealous. I’m not sure I could share a man with anyone else. I might murder both of them. Just kidding.
I assume that a monogamous relationship is what would work for me, but right now the emotional cost is too high. I have other things to focus on in life. I don’t miss having a sex life. I wouldn’t say I have sexual fantasies right now, since I feel like I’ve already lived them all. Maybe new fantasies will develop eventually, who knows.
Sex is a tricky thing all around. It’s one thing to have chemistry with someone, but I feel the sex only becomes really good when you get to know someone deeply and can truly trust them. For me, I just don’t really see the point of having sex with someone just to have sex. It’s only going to mess me up. The risk that that will happen is too high.
I share your sentiment about condoms. Definitely useful, they have a purpose, but total killers otherwise.
You said sex is more than fun for you? So it’s more like merging? Like an energy exchange?
Yes, of course, sex with someone and masturbating by yourself are hugely different. I agree. I don’t even really feel the need to masturbate. I’m too lazy, not a fan of porn, and most importantly, I need to be drawn to someone.
Why are you suffering? Do you feel like your life would be better if you shared it with someone? This isn’t just about sex. I mean having a person to be with and share your life with. Do you feel lonely?
Hey Arya:
I think airports are hunting grounds like dating websites!!! I have had similar experiences! lol
As someone who has been with a man since 15 through menopause and now finally single two years:
1. I prefer a companion
2. I prefer being single to being with a bad companion.
3. I don’t know if I will ever meet a good companion and fear making a mistake at this age if a bad one.
Now May Musk is actually inspiring. Read her bio. She like some of my friends prefers being single. Her dog, friends and children are enough. She is not interested in men or dating and is fully content.
I have met women like this, I admire them. I still want a life companion but only a good one….
Well will it happen ??? I spend lots of time kicking off age inappropriate, narcs, nice guys but no connection or chemistry and weirdos…
Not yet but hope
Ary, I know 🙈🙈 it is so bad. In my defence, I do not know where other people end and I begin, I have an absence of boundary recognition. In Andy’s and Ksenia’s words: “It could be worse. And it will be.” 💪 You must excuse me now, I need to self flagellate, moisturise, and suffer🥹
But no 🥰 hear me out, there is a grand master plan behind it…🙊❣️
“Plus, codependent empath has a creature according to Chained. And they have empathy. It means creating of the creature doesn’t effect emotional empathy. It’s neither a prerequisite for its creation nor it removes the empathy in individual.”
Hi Arya,
This is how I currently see it.
As children the codependent empath and the narcissist-to-be experience a deep sense of rejection of who they are while growing up. They are particularly sensitive to this rejection – maybe more than others might be. Eventually, the narcissist pushes the rejected self down into themselves and develops a false self to use instead. It’s instinctive, not intentional. The self they push down becomes the creature even though most of them won’t know it’s there and will believe their false self is their true self. The codependent empath does not make this shift. They continue on without pushing that rejected self down. They don’t have a creature like the narcissist because they didn’t suppress a true self and don’t use a false self. They continue to experience their insecurities and sense of rejection all the time. The narcissist only experiences insecurities when their false self is temporarily weakened.
“Then Codependent empath is the one who has the majority, meaning 50% and above. So if an empath has 49% co-ed it doesn’t have creature, and with 50% it does? No smooth transition, just bam and it’s there. Or with 49% , empath has a creature but it’s barely alive?”
No creatures. Those with higher percentages might be more dependent on others if they feel that insecurity more acutely.
“I don’t understand how a psychopath can become a narcissist if he has no empathy to begin with and empty inside.”
I’ve wondered about this as well. I think the transition from psychopaths to narcissistic psychopaths probably involves other shifts rather than an empathy shift, since they don’t have much to lose. The shift might more about developing a false self over the top of the real self and pushing that real one down. A lot of the behaviours that would then be used would be in service of the false self – keeping it in place.
I suspect it’s still a response to rejection, because even though some children have less capacity to feel emotions, it doesn’t mean they don’t still expect and want to be valued by their parents. They can still experience rejection and it could feel untenable.
Hi AA,
I found your description incredibly helpful. You’ve provided a delineation for me and I really appreciate that.
Hi Jordy,
Nice to see you back and hypothesising again. 🙂
I have something for you to add in to the mix. I listened to Gad Saad being interviewed the other day. I don’t particularly like Gad, but, he did say something that made me think.
As we know, a baby is wholly self centred, it has to be to get its needs met. The baby does not see itself as separate to the mother, they are one entity in the world of the baby. As the baby grows and develops, the young child sees itself through the mother’s gaze. I’d heard this before but Gad gave an explanation. Essentially, the child’s sense of self is a reflection of what it perceives from the mother. So for example, if the mother is depressed, then the child would think, “ she is sad because of me. I am bad, inadequate etc.”
The child’s view of self is entirely determined by the mother, not by reality. The view of self is not the opinion of the child, it is the opinion of the mother perceived by the child.
Now add in the narcissism.
The true self is viewed by the aware narcissist as weak, impotent, unfit for purpose. But is this view of the true self actually accurate? To me, the true self of the aware narcissist is more like a false memory. It is not an accurate representation of the self that was. It’s a representation of the self viewed / perceived through the eyes of the mother.
Now consider that the mother is a narcissist. Her view of the child, her behaviour that the child associates as being down to himself, it’s all warped. There’s no truth in it.
Add in the narcissism of the adult child. The false self views the ‘true self’ through the lense of the narcissism. None of this is true. The view the narcissist has of the true self has been corrupted twice over, once by the mother, once by the false self.
I think this points to the fact that the creature is a complete fabrication in every sense of the word, a false memory.
Hello TS:
Loved your analysis ( above mine) but if there is only a false memory… is there a self that formed? And how can this be a “ true” self?
If self is a perception of one’s identity and it is based on a false construct or delusion then is there really by deduction a “ true” self? In my humble opinion then there is no true self formed at all. Or was there a true self before the little being was corrupted by abuse ? And what is that? A soul at 0? Before 0? A ghost of what is to come? A genetic sequence? What is the true self as “a perceived identity “ before the little being becomes fearful, frustrated, neglected and abused and turns to coping mechanisms or behavior to address or cope with the inflicted trauma? And WHEN does this occur?
I always have had an issue with the age and how anyone can know what is going on in a developing baby brain…. A baby’s brain! We don’t know much about adult brains. …. A baby brain that is growing exponentially. This is why I like 0-9 better than 0-3 ( the good breast theory by Melanie Klein) for narcissism to develop. I agree with HG!
So to me … as stated below, the little being with all the promise in the world at some point in my humble opinion feels an instinct of life or death. At 0… I mean how much developed thought do they have? To me, as a mother, it is I am hungry. Cry. I am wet. Cry. I farted. Smile . My tummy is full. Smile then yawn… sleep. I think the little being develops at 0 an instinct…. and a very basic one at that.
So to me, babies go by instinct. I feel good, fed, warm, safe or not. Cry or don’t cry. As the baby becomes a toddler, say 18 months to 3, as their little brains grow and develop, attachments and self recognition starts … here is where I see perception of identity or the self formation STARTING . WHO AM I? I am not mommy. WOW. I am separate. But who am I? What am I? If the little 18 months to 3 year old toddler exists in an un-safe abusive environment with no secure attachment …. I think this is when the perception of true self starts but never forms…. It stops forming. It doesn’t matter anymore. Who am I doesn’t matter. Instead, the toddler focuses on what to do or who to pretend to be in order to survive. I also think a survival instinct kicks in and the little fast developing brain is affected by the heightened “ fight or flight” chemicals in the brain needed to survive. For example, if the toddler fears mommy , toddler might try to do x, y and z, to get life: food, warmth, safety. This behavior is the focus : the focus is on transaction, manipulation ( both positive and negative), and control to survive… then these actions become the false self in that it is not based on a perception of reality that is based on perceived identity but rather a focus on controlling reality. A narcissist starts to form in an unsafe environment. The START of the false self. Age 18 month to 3. But if the formation process of self is not quashed, such as if an interloper appears in his or her little life…. … this can make a difference. If an interloper enters into the 18 month year old- toddler (or up to 9 ) life …. the coping mechanism to survive in life is not needed… the little being might let go of the coping mechanism and start to form a self, a true self, How? in that safety, and in that love, the 18 month old – toddler ( up to 9 ) begins to see him or her self as a “self.” Not a being trying to cope, survive, control the environment but an actual separate, valid self living in the real world. When the little being finds safety … it is then that the little being can relax, have time to process the world, think , play, experiment freely and even REFLECT and see him or her self not only separate from mommy… but through safe exploration, he or she can obtain a perception of who they are in the real world. ( ie Toddler: I fall down stairs running. Ouch. I am ok. I tell interloper and she puts band aid on boo boo. I am important. I am worthwhile. I should not run down stairs. I am smart. I learned. Growth) But… Safety is needed for safe exploration. Secure feedback in the real world is needed for safe attachment… this becomes trust in oneself and in others…. And love. Self love is needed for love but first that self must exist. Voila! This is the true self… in my definition. It develops when a little being can freely explore, learn about him or her self in a safe environment and… grow. The instinct to fight or flight, the do or die instinct is greatly diminished as well by a safe attachment in the new safe and secure world/attachments…the little being can stop fighting ( or flighting) and start to perceive and explore the world … the panic is over… .If not, the little being will continue on in his or her frantic effort, in a panic to survive, to try to control the environment instead of exploring it and to control others and the external world instead of developing trust, love and a separate identity and to reject reality and others ….. if this continues from 0-9, then the false self cements. Thus a narcissist never develops a self. The coping mechanism lives on instead, the false self.
That’s my thought but I am not a psychologist like Klein but I find it hard to believe that psychologists can determine what’s going on in a baby’s brain. Toddler studies show attachments start at 18 months but I am not certain that toddlers who are just realizing say at 2 that they are even a separate being from mommy can develop a perception of self when they are just understanding they aren’t mommy. I personally see it’s instinctive at that point until 18 months to 3. For example, I read this awful article in the New Yorker magazine last weekend about how there was once parenting advice books that if a baby cried out… mommy should put it on its stomach and spank the baby, if it does not stop, repeat. I don’t think the baby developed a personality disorder from even this abuse but probably fell asleep after crying to the point of exhaustion. Basic instincts. And why did 0-3 age children die in a Romanian orphanage not from lack of food or shelter but lack of touch or communication. They died. We are social animals by instinct too, it is life or death. I think instinct plays a huge part in ages 0-3.
Psychologist Mary Ainsworth studies show a toddlers reaction to a bad mommy that indicates future personality problems but I am not certain the toddler has developed a self yet or thinks he or she is “bad” ….. The studies have a mommy drop off the toddler and then mommy comes back. Secure children stop playing and run to mommy then resume playing. Others look at mommy not knowing what to do. Based on mommy’s cue, they then might approach mommy and tend to be clingy but also resist comfort. This is a developing self at risk . Worse some avoid mommy completely, or are indifferent. But do these toddlers in the John Bowles and Mary Ainsworth studies have true selves or perceived identities? Do any of them identify themself as “ bad” or “ good” or are they simply looking for safety or feel safe not sure who they are ……yet? ( To me, it’s too soon for a self to form or a true self to form… it is the latter.) and their little brains are still growing biologically.
So it is my theory based on my own research and I am obviously not an expert…. that separation of self starts when the toddler realizes that they are not mommy. This is when self formation starts. If in a safe environment, voila! O-9. If not, I personally believe the self never forms and instead the 0-9 survives by engaging in survival tactics or “ coping mechanism s” until this becomes cemented and a false self is created.
I just don’t see how a baby can think “ I am bad” and that becomes the true self.
Or a toddler who hasn’t realized he is not mommy can think “ I am bad.” And that is his or her true self.
But I can see a developing brain just realizing they aren’t mommy and invalidated to the point they must choose behavior to survive and who control their external world versus perceiving it and growing into it as becoming a “false” self….or maybe the better word is a constructed self, the roof/floor/beams gathered from others in the external world and put together by the narcissist in his internal mind to host the constructed self. Versus a child who is able to have safe exploration, and form secure stable attachments who learns to perceive themselves as reflected by the reality of their safe little world with secure people in it forming a perception of their own identity or “true “ self or where the healthy person perceives his or her identity both in the external world and the internal world as the same. That’s the true self to me and narcissists don’t have one. It never formed. It was either stunted or stopped. But did the 0-9 budding narcissists develop this idea that “ I am bad “ therefore I must do x,y and z? See? I think they are just unaware of who they are and why they do the things they do and not that they behave this way because deep down inside they realized at some point as a young child that they were bad or unworthy or unlovable especially at the ages of 0-3.
I think that there is an emptiness, a void inside because the self never formed. It was not allowed to exist, true or not. Maybe shattered memories? Fragments of self? If that is a thing….??? But that this emptiness inside, this feeling of nothingness, this void makes them feel anxious, perhaps panicked, angry, depressed, and then they feel unworthy, unlovable or low as it is a scary, unsettling, awful feeling to not know who you are in this world, or to feel non-existent. That’s my take on it.
With that being said my earliest memory is below age 3, I was talking to my mother about remembering her carrying me ( in Sleepy Hollow, Tarrytown NY) and seeing this horse with bright colors and little bells behind the tree leaves with the sunshine peering down . My mother said to me “you were far too little to remember that park … you were just a baby. And it was a donkey with a multi-colored saddle and bridle with bells not a horse”. Lol. My mother was surprised at my memory. I have a good memory. Helps in my career. I also remember feeling safe in her arms or maybe I just think I do looking back. ????
So??? Who knows.
TS, thank you❣️
“The view of self is not the opinion of the child, it is the opinion of the mother perceived by the child.”
100 per cent. Parental pre formed identities, based on the opinions of their predecessors, are imposed on the child and shape its identity and sense of self.
“Essentially, the child’s sense of self is a reflection of what it perceives from the mother. So for example, if the mother is depressed, then the child would think, ‘She is sad because of me. I am bad, inadequate etc.'”
This requires the separation into “me” and “her”, which allows such a false perception to develop. The child has nothing to do with the mother’s feelings. That is already the arena of manipulation. “I am bad, inadequate” appears as an option without the child having the tools yet to question it or to think critically about what is being imposed on “me”. Is it really the case that I am bad or inadequate? A child cannot question it. Questioning an imposed reality is not part of the toolkit yet. The child is a sponge for ideas and emotional states, which build up in proportion to the pressure of the outer world.
“The child’s view of self is entirely determined by the mother, not by reality.” Exactly. The reality would be: I am a new arrival in a world where my inherent needs do not count, where I must adapt to ideas about myself as a separate entity dictated by the caregiver, no matter how false, irrational or lacking in empathy they may be. I have no choice. I am physically inferior.
This is the point of adaptation. The moment when the child observes who holds the power in the dynamic in order to survive more effectively. The child sews the worn costume of the parent onto itself.
At the exit you receive three types of interaction in order to survive:
1. I demand and command what I want and need.
2. I complain a lot and demand what I want and need.
3. I complain a lot and think I am above it all, but never take the steps to get what I want and need. I wait for the good Samaritan to appear and do it for me.
What one wants and what one needs is where the illusion plays out the most.
What do people want, and what do they actually need, and based on what?
Secondly:
“The true self is viewed by the aware narcissist as weak, impotent, unfit for purpose.”
Also agreed.
When HG speaks of the true self being unfit for purpose, it may be: emotional empathy is unfit for purpose when it comes to surviving in an abusive environment. In that regard, it is accurate. Emotional empathy is a hindrance amongst predators, manipulators and unaware individuals. HG observed his father being a victim because of emotional empathy and emotional thinking. So why choose that? Why choose pain? Why choose the inability to stand up for yourself? Why choose doormat behaviour? Why choose being broken? Why choose being lied to, ignored, shouted at and mistreated in all kinds of ways, only to bow to the abuser and remain the servant of a puppeteer who pulls the strings of someone who is nice? HG’s forming identity of survival choses the best option it observes in order not to become a victim.
“But is this view of the true self actually accurate? To me, the true self of the aware narcissist is more like a false memory.”
The “true” self becomes an adaptive identity which cancels emotional empathy, retains cognitive empathy and becomes capable of multiple identities. The ability to adapt to other identities for a while, through cognitive empathy, allows survival in an environment festooned with predators, manipulators, kind but unaware individuals. The false self and true self become one, basically. The only possible reality, because it is proven to be effective within experienced circumstances.
“It is not an accurate representation of the self that was. It’s a representation of the self viewed or perceived through the eyes of the mother.”
and
“The false self views the ‘true self’ through the lens of narcissism. None of this is true. The view the narcissist has of the true self has been corrupted twice over, once by the mother, once by the false self. I think this points to the fact that the creature is a complete fabrication in every sense of the word.”
The true self remains untouched by the aftermath of conditioning. It is still an empty sheet of paper upon which a dictated perception has been written. It is the resource that makes reality happen.
The true self’s inability to intervene, to be heard, or to be given a chance to have a voice outside the imposed construct is what hurts, suffers and feels like horror or a void. The true self speaks directly to the narcissist, and the narcissist cannot avoid its voice. That is when the true self turns against the individual and becomes a destructive force. Its potential turns against its own carrier.
The empath could be viewed as operating a “false” self as well, once shaped by conditioning where bowing to abuse has taken place. Where does it fit reality? Of one human having power over another human? Or one human going power under?
Both possess a true self that remains untouched and unhindered by conditioning. Yet it does not know how to operate outside the identities they replay within all the interactional dynamics that exist. The false self, blocks the use of that untouched potential and the possibilities within it.
The reason is quite simple. The machinery of systems relies on robotic and reliable performances of abusive dynamics. In such a structure, the abuser and the victim are both exploited twice over by a system that becomes the actual predator benefiting from the illusion.
The system itself is not even a living entity. It is merely a construct.
All the energy evaporates into the ether for nothing instead of fuelling one’s own untouched potential. People invest their energy in preserving identities, believing it is important to make them immortal, either through historical relevance or through afterlife realms where identities live happily ever after, maintaining the human aspect, the soul, as an empathic equivalent.
Yet the immortality in their pockets does not lie in the realm of identity. Identity relies on the belief that death will never occur. People are afraid to talk about death. They rarely confront it. The identity depends on the avoidance of this topic. Our whole system is built on the belief that one is immortal, that one will never die. That is where the idea of the afterlife of the identity comes from.
What never dies is indeed energy, but the ability to command energy may also come with the possibility of being alive for much longer than 75-85 years.
Look at all the fifty or sixty year olds who undergo surgeries and suddenly look thirty again. Outwardly they prolong their youth, but their energy is already depleted. They may still die around seventy or eighty with the face of a thirty year old.
Prolonging existence has to do with the untouched potential people never discover, because they remain busy replaying the scenarios their parents, and the parents of their parents, and so on, laid out for them. Their most vital energy is spent upholding those patterns.
Hi Jordy and Contagious,
I’m going to try to add in your points to mine. I’m hurtling towards exam season here with the associated anxiety so let’s just say I’m not firing too well on the old thinking front just now.
Contagious, your key thought is the age of the baby / child and where the true self and development of false self sits with that. Jordy, you look more at formation of emotional empathy, needs and wants and lack of true self.
I agree, there is a problem with “ mum is depressed because of me.” That statement implies that the baby / child has a separate sense of self from the mother. We have the idea of ‘she’ and ‘I’ so there is separation. To my knowledge, narcissists never achieve true separation from the mother. Without separation there can be no felt ‘she’ and ‘I’. That statement therefore is likely the statement of a ‘normal’ child be that normal, empath or narcissistic.
With the narcissist, the influence of the mother on the child’s future (adult narcissist) view of the true self is present, but the child doesn’t have a view of self ‘I’ as being separate from ‘she’.
Both of you question the existence of a true self at all. I think you’re both right. The narcissist child has the potential for a true self but without the ability to separate, the true self is like Jordy’s “blank sheet”. It’s kind of a ‘self in waiting’ that never materialises.
I don’t think there was a true self, and the true self was overwritten by the false self. I think there was the potential for a true self to form, but, before that separation occurred, the false self was already being created. So when HG says he is empty, there is no one there, that would be true, what there was was the potential of a true self. The only form of true self that could possibly exist would be the view of the child through the eyes of the mother, plus, the wants and needs aspect that Jordy describes and that is survival driven only.
As the baby develops, still without a concept of self other than having their needs met, I think it’s at this point through the LOCE we get the beginnings of a false self. It’s a defence mechanism in response to the LOCE, (which threatens needs being met) that is the reason why it forms but what actually is it? I think the false self is really a set of behaviours to ensure that needs are met. It isn’t a self as we perceive a self to be. It’s more like an autopilot system that is concerned with doing. It acts, but it doesn’t believe. So, for example when I asked HG if he truly believes what he says to his IPPS when he is devaluing her, his response was along the lines of “it is done because it is necessary.” So, a set of actions to fulfil a need. It is very machine like actually. It’s just a set of behaviours and actions, ‘a’leads to ‘b’ leads to ‘c.’ I think when we have our own sense of self, it’s incredibly difficult to visualise a being without any true sense of self. It seems very much like a driverless car.
So I think you are both right in that the true self was never really there. It was potential, a blank sheet waiting to be filled. In terms of the Creature, I think it’s more a set of criticisms primarily from the mother that the ‘false self’ later believes to be true of the ‘true self.’ In this sense, it does seem very like a false memory.
I agree that HG’s view of empathy is an intellectual view formed through the eyes of the false self. The false self executes a range of behaviours to achieve what it needs to survive, in that sense emotional empathy would very much be surplus to requirements. This is meta cognition in many ways. HG is able intellectually to step back and evaluate his own operating system. He understands the machine like functioning, and sees his own behaviours but those behaviours achieve what is needed, so there would never be any motivation to alter them unless those same behaviours suddenly failed to achieve what is needed, or, there was a more efficient operating system to get what is needed. An upgrade of sorts. Pro social wouldn’t be implemented for any other reason than efficiency.
I think Arya’s question about narcissism and psychopathy combined is a valid one. If psychopathy is present from birth, then the inability to bond, lack of empathy, resistance to punishment, lack of fear, and full detachment should negate the need for NPD to form. I’ve turned that problem around and around for ages, I’ve got an idea that I’m half happy with so I’ll have a go at that separately.
Dear TS, dear Contagious, dear Two,
Please listen to this song and its lyrics, but not from the romantic relationship perspective it appears to convey at first glance. Instead, try to hear it from the perspective of the true self of a little individual who is about to become a narcissist.
It describes, very precisely, what the true self goes through, and how it eventually gives up and enters the never ending search behind the question: What can I do to make them love me?
The lyrics trace that path with clarity, showing how the self relinquishes its sense of power, and moves into a state of emptiness. From that moment on, the search for fuel begins, driven by the constant questioning: What can I do to make them love me?
…
There’s only so much I can take
And I just got to let it go
And who knows, I might feel better
If I don’t try and I don’t hope?
…
No more waiting, no more aching
No more fighting, no more trying
…
Maybe there’s nothing more to say
And in a funny way, I’m calm
Because the power is not mine
I’m just gonna let it fly
…
What can I do to make you love me?
What can I do to make you care?
…
The song is beautiful and profoundly sad, yet it addresses the issue directly. It offers a perspective of the child’s true self, which has to give up and instead form a construct that becomes the narcissist. Left with the unanswered question of what he or she needed to do in order to be loved.
It never understood that it was not within their power to make the other person love them, because that person was likely asking themselves the very same question and could not find an answer either.
Please listen to this song. It may provide you with many answers.
Yes, TS. Thank you. Please do share your thoughts, cause it is still boggling for me, how narcissism can form in psychopath if it’s a defensive mechanism. I have a theory that maybe it appeared as a defense to repeated threats to control (not because he was emotionally hurt), since a psychopath needs to control environment all the time and abuse in this case – threats.
But then who is the creature? To me – it’s not true self. And again those codependent empaths with creatures also….if fuel feeds a construct to keep a creature at bay, then logically, if a construct crumbles due to lack a fuel, a narcissist should become a codependent empath, isn’t it? But no, a narcissist loses his/her mind it seems.
Anyway, this “creature creation and it’s function” puzzle hasn’t been solved in my head, yet. Maybe later.
Hi Arya,
The creation of narcissism is due to a lack of control environment. Even a psychopath can experience a lack of control environment.
The narcissist needs fuel because it validates their existence. Every time we have an emotional reaction to a narcissist, we fuel them, which validates their existence. If a child didn’t receive validation, it could create a lack of control environment, which could lead to narcissism.
I think the difference between the CoD & the narcissist is that there’s no construct or false self within a CoD. Within the narcissist, the creature is the true self. In that sense I can see a CoD as having a creature. But there’s no construct protecting them from it. There’s no false self.
I just wanted to share some thoughts I had about it. If you look at AA’s comment on this thread, I thought it was helpful too.
The link did not work. Maybe this one will. If not, it is the song “What Can I Do” by The Corrs.
Truthseeker:
So close to answering what I seek. But how can a baby know if a mother is depressed? It needs food. Doesn’t like a wet diaper. Its brain is GROWING fast. Sorry but I don’t see narcissism growing here. A toddler thinks it’s mommy. So perhaps if mommy is depressed the toddler would internalize this. I am mommy. Mommy is sad. I am sad. Maybe the sense of self starts there. But where then does the creature emerge? Mommy being critical of child so child becomes adrift with a self hatred. First you would need a self to form to get self hatred. My thought is that the self stunts at the point of toddler as there is no safety to let it explore and grow. As the brain and child grow it is left without identity and this feels empty so then the “ creature feels weak.” That’s my take…
Also Jordy:
The song was perfect. I agree. I just think narcissism forms later and that song is proof. I think early childhood intervention at the time the toddler is separating from mom is the perfect time to ensure a healthy self is developed..
Hi Arya,
I just lost a rather lengthy reply to you. Hopefully I didn’t accidentally send it and you end up with two!
Firstly, reading through your more recent comments on this thread, you sound lighter, clearer, so I am thinking that you are feeling a little better. I hope so. Whatever it is you are doing, carry on doing it because to me, it feels as though your ET is falling.
To your thoughts about the narcissistic psychopath and how narcissism forms alongside psychopathy. I struggle with this. Narcissism forms through a LOCE in early childhood. Psychopathy is the result of differences in brain structure and does not require a LOCE to form. In this way narcissists are made and psychopaths are born. To me, psychopathy is a more robust self defence mechanism than NPD, so if psychopathy is already present then what would necessitate the child escaping into a false self via the formation of narcissism?
In terms of psychopathy, the brain has plasticity and is not fully formed until the mid twenties, so on that basis we could say that there will be elements of the brain structure that are present at birth and others will develop / not develop through childhood, adolescence into early adulthood. These structures of the brain are known to be linked to how humans experience emotions, emotional empathy and the lack of a fear response.
It would be helpful to understand exactly which differences in brain structure are present from birth and which develop a little later. There is one aspect to do with brain chemistry rather than brain structure that I am convinced is present from birth. That is the inability to process Oxyctocin. Oxytocin is responsible for bonding. Whilst psychopaths produce oxytocin there is a difference in the brain receptors responsible for processing it. It is there but passes through the brain unused. As such a psychopath does not bond to the mother and will never bond to anyone emotionally throughout the duration of their life.
The psychopathic baby does not bond emotionally to the mother. Essentially, the mother is viewed as a set of utilities : provider of milk, warmth, shelter etc. As such, people are then viewed as their utility only without any recognition of separateness, or humanity (separate individuals with hopes dreams needs and wants.) If people are a utility then there is no emotional resonance. This feeds into detachment.
If the child is detached from people, has no remorse, no guilt, no fear then they are also resistant to punishment. There is no concern for people pleasing or any regard for how others view the child either positively or negatively, the psychopathic child simply wouldn’t care. The driver would be very much along the lines of ‘I want.’ This is why punishment doesn’t work with psychopathic children, they don’t fear it and they aren’t remorseful, so bribery is more effective as it serves the ‘I want’ aspect far better.
In terms of the LOCE and the necessity for escape through the formation of a false self, I agree with your thoughts that this is unlikely to occur through emotional abuse. The psychopathy protects against that through the detachment and lack of bonding.
I think we would have to look at it in terms of what the psychopathy doesn’t protect against but which might be present in a childhood LOCE. Emotional abuse, physical abuse, sexual abuse.
The psychopath doesn’t experience a fear response or at least not in the same way as we do. If there is physical punishment and abuse the child would avoid but not be paralysed with fear and anticipation of pain as we would be. If we think about the scene where HG was locked out in the cold until he could perfectly recite Ode to Autumn he would not have been afraid, upset or crying. He would recite so as to get back indoors but he would not fear that it might happen again the following day. The event would be over. Similarly, when he was very very young and locked in the cellar, he wasn’t upset, afraid, crying or screaming. He simply thought, “Why am I in here again?” ( response to a blog Q&A question several years ago) I don’t think physical abuse in the LOCE would necessitate the escape into a false self, mostly as fear would be absent and it’s the fear element that is most psychologically damaging in my view.
This leaves sexual abuse. To my knowledge psychopaths do experience disgust. Also the physical difference in size, and the inability to stop this abuse whilst recognising the arrival of the abusers, the locations etc, this would equate to powerlessness. Powerlessness would also be present with physical abuse but I somehow see the sheer disgust as being the key element. To be disgusted, to recoil from touch and unwanted advances by supposed carers I think would be enough to necessitate the creation of a false self. Psychopathy couldn’t protect against those two elements and they would be experienced on full volume repeatedly.
If the two aspects can exist together in one person, psychopathy then narcissism, I think that specific element of a LOCE would be the most likely cause with the resultant disgust and sense of powerlessness as the drivers. It is common for victims of sexual abuse to experience dissociation and or depersonalisation. Those aspects could potentially be instrumental in the creation of a false self.
I am aware that it is not generally accepted to use the expression of ‘psychopathic child’. I used it here for clarity and brevity. I have no idea if my thinking is correct Arya and I’m not wholly convinced myself, but it’s the best explanation I can hypothesise so far.
Well articulated observations.
Hi TS,
I agree thst feeling powerlessness is a major contributor to the creation of narcissism within a psychopath. But I think that any environment that they can’t control could create a feeling of powerlessness, not just sexual abuse. What if the psychopath child isn’t being fed? What if they get cracked with a belt daily? It might not cause fear but it definitely causes a lack of control. They can’t fend for themselves or stand up to their aggressors. Then when you add the gene component, I think that seals the deal and the narcissist is created.
On the topic of oxytocin, there is an interesting study that could cast some doubt on the hypothesis of psychopaths’ inability to process it. (“Oxytocin normalizes the implicit processing of fearful faces in psychopathy”, see https://www.nature.com/articles/s44220-023-00067-3)
Hi Leigh,
I had HG in mind when I wrote the previous comment because he is the only narcissistic psychopath I have part been exposed to. I don’t know the full extent of the abuse that HG sustained as a child. I don’t want to know because if I did, I’d be at risk of feeling sorry for the HG of now and wanting to mother him. He definitely wouldn’t appreciate that.
From what I do know, HG was subject to all three kinds of abuse. Emotional, physical and sexual. Given the developing psychopathy aspect I see emotional abuse as less impactful on him. Given his mother is UMR, whilst there was physical abuse, her control on ignited fury would be high. Plus, she was very concerned with appearances. It wouldn’t do for HG to be walking around with welts and bruises. So my estimation is that severe physical abuse was very occasional. Couple that with lack of fear and I see it as less impactful. I see the sexual abuse as being the most impactful. HG likely does experience disgust, not across the board as we might but it is an emotion open to him as far as I know.
There is something particularly invasive about sexual abuse in my view, especially at the hands of a care giver. It’s sexual abuse where depersonalisation is often reported and I can understand why. It’s an abuse that breaks the psyche. Put it this way, if given a choice of being beaten to a pulp or raped, I’d choose the beating every time. My own feelings might be influencing my thoughts here, but I don’t think so. To me, sexual abuse was the most egregious lack of control that wasn’t defended by the developing psychopathy. Possibly worse given the inability to bond that was already existing.
In general terms, I agree with you Leigh, physical abuse also represents a lack of control for a child where psychopathy is developing. But, given what I know currently of HG’s family background, for me the sexual abuse would have been instrumental in HG suffering a lack of control.
( I feel really uncomfortable even discussing this when HG is reading my comment. I apologise HG if I have gone too far.)
Jordy:
Excellent points!
But it requires a thought. A baby? A toddler not aware of if mother is self? I still question the age that this thought process begins… I agree that at some point it does and it’s horrifying and invalidating to the extent that a self never properly forms and identity is shifting or void.
Hg says BPD is essentially a narc if not PTSD and a hall mark of BPD is a struggle with identity.
I also take issue with your assumption that empaths come from a place of abuse. I definitely did not. I had no physical, emotional or sexual abuse as a child. None. None. In fact my world was filled with what I would call ultra empaths:) Yes, people who grew old naturally, never gossiped or complained. Who smiled broadly with a twinkle in their eyes. Who devoted their lives to God and large families. Who were smart and some quiet but if asked could deliver a well educated opinion. Who were college educated and remained married through life. Who wee like my father: KIND. Kindness was key to my family albeit my mother’s father was not. Good kind stock. Artistic. Very. Many artists.
Now as for the empaths who suffered abuse.i think they had a choice. Be like that one or another. I think most had one person that they emulated. I had a clan. They either did not have the gene or went the other way. Co-d is troubling as they can stick to narcs as learned behavior. But not always, I see Co- D as also great community builders and givers.
That’s my two cents…
Contagious, I will bite you on your sweet cheek! I did not assume that empaths are made only through abuse. I am of the view that every identity is also a construct, whereas the true self is something that stands behind the identity.
I do not tie emotional or cognitive empathy to the true self, but rather to the identity or construct, which forms based on the parts of the brain that are either available or not, shaping the individual and their identity.
Identity is a very rigid product of perception. Since so much energy is involved in maintaining a fixed identity or construct, awareness cannot easily come through, and the true self cannot reveal a broader, more encompassing picture, including those energetic and extraordinary perceptual aspects. In my observation, every individual, including psychopaths and narcissists, can have access to these. Reality itself is, in many ways, a transparent anomaly.
The true self is pure awareness, one could say, something a baby fully inhabits at the beginning. Its whole brain and all senses are open to receive, process, and grow within the world. When you look into a baby’s eyes, there is that vast sense of awareness, presence, and connection to something beyond imagination. That, in my view, is the true self of every individual.
Over time, this becomes gradually covered by the identities of those around the child, shaping and, at times, heavily misleading the newly arrived. The connection to this original state becomes lost, syllable by syllable, word by word, habit by habit. Parents often do not realise the extent to which they influence this process. They may see children as empty vessels to be filled with their own understanding of the world, which the true self cannot reject, and instead adopts as its reality…
Hi there Jordy! Nice to see you!
Enjoyed reading your series on the creature. And HG’s vivid imagination coupled with his knowledge makes the video fantastic. I hear the wind howling…..
I always felt the creature was not a self but more of a never developed self or an empty void where a self should have been….. which is why they fear that empty feeling when fuel is low …. and they struggle, and why they have no inability to love, etc… you need to have a self, and to love yourself to love another …..and if you put aside the harm they cause……this is sad to me.
A baby is born with the whole wide world ahead of them but early in their development they are neglected or abused or as I call it… they were never loved properly. So while their little body and little minds grow, their self or who they are” just never forms. Instead, out of a primal sense of fear and instinct in order to literally … literally survive… the young child projects to the world a self that it thinks with his or her little mind is what is needed … to stay alive. And the toddler studies suggest this… these studies are so heart breaking. You know when mommy leaves the room and comes back, the toddlers reaction. So sad. So sad. You see the damage done so early on…..
I think that it is literally life or death at some point for the developing child….. I would bet studies have shown this reality such as in the Romanian orphanages that in extreme cases even a narcissistic defense cannot be created to survive and the child simply dies, just dies. It’s truly life or death. I think the creature that some call the “ true self” is just not really in the true sense, an actual self. Facing the void or lack of any sense of self is painful and scary and causes dissociation, anxiety, panic or depression and the narcissist lives in a perpetual fantasy world while trying to control the external world to protect his or her internal world or fantasy. I don’t know how this would feel as I know who I am. I was quite an interesting independent and confident little girl. I don’t know what it is like to need constant control to avoid falling into a void ….. to me that would feel like certain death. Very sad. Very scary. Very serious. Life is hard enough. I was fortunate to have been very loved.
What I find interesting is aware v unaware. So if my theory is right, a narcissist who is unaware couldn’t be aware as no self …… but a greater…. Well maybe his or her sense of self was fragmented but actually a form of it exists. Maybe a greater has an un-stable sense of self. A diminished true self? That would make sense and I would think the creature would feel different for a greater than the rest who are unaware. Not good but not a total void. Not a complete and utter freefall.
I have always felt the class system that HG uses is a description of learned behavior that does not necessarily but can describe a class system. So, in the upper class you would learn more cold fury abuse from your educated wealthy parents versus in a lower class you would learn hot fury maybe from your poor unemployed uneducated parents. The types of abuses are learned behavioral patterns that explains generational abuse. Of course the class system is not the system HG uses. You often see rich lesser narcs and I bet there are poor greaters ( but probably extremely rare).
That’s my take on it anyway.
Thoughts?
X
Added ideas. I think multiple personality is multiple selves. Typically the self is broken into separate parts that live in the same mind. Each one is complete with its own memory and sense of self.
And the soul? I think the soul is separate from a self. I think everyone has a soul. And the light is available to all and that eternal life is possible for all. It’s beyond my ability to know how this works but that’s a matter of personal faith or rather my own:)
Dear Contagious, you have put it very beautifully, thank you❣️
I have shared the majority of my thoughts in my reply to TS. Here I would only like to add that I assume it goes even deeper when it comes to facing the void. The void may be the manifestation of the true self’s inability to have a say in the individual’s experience. The void then becomes a voice that cannot be silenced, but one that needs to be listened to and understood.
“What I find interesting is aware v unaware… I would think the creature would feel different for a greater than the rest who are unaware.”
I think it is the same feeling and experience for all, but the Greater poses the awareness to step outside themselves and formulate what is actually bothering them. It is a rare awareness that drives the evolution of understanding forward.
“And the soul? I think the soul is separate from a self. I think everyone has a soul. And the light is available to all and that eternal life is possible for all. It’s beyond my ability to know how this works but that’s a matter of personal faith or rather my own:)”
You formulated the answer there. And indeed, if the soul is the equivalent of empathy, then it becomes an identity based belief, because the emphasis lies on the light: “And the light is available to all and that eternal life is possible for all.”
But you left out the darkness, an equally powerful part. In the afterlife scenario the empath presents, it becomes a “light only” experience. Everyone finds light in that version because the empathic experience leans heavily towards it. Yet an empath, and as Contagion you can confirm this, knows that light is also attracted to darkness, and vice versa.
Every individual possesses what you call a soul, and what I would call an original energetic component, which by design can access both light and darkness. However, the identity of the human self, shaped by conditioning and survival, tends to focus more heavily on one aspect. This creates an imbalance in the circulation of energy within the human energetic ecosystem.
This dynamic of light versus darkness becomes a lose lose situation for the human species, yet it is the structure within which our society has developed. Perhaps because it is part of evolution to live through that separation first, in order to understand the difference and the consequences that arise from it.
Hello Jordy: but I emphasized age. This drives me crazy. A baby to me is simply instinctive. A toddler first needs to recognize they aren’t mom. So at what point does a narcissist realize he “ cannot have a say in his own experience.” See that’s what I see a greater experiencing. Some sort of awareness of a perceived identity that exists but is maimed by oppression, abuse, invalidation. I think the rest just feel a void inside that leads them to depression, anger, and a lack of identity they try to create.
As to your reference to darkness. You are correct, no one is without darkness or sin. No one.
To quote my hero Dr. Martin Luther One of Martin Luther King Jr.’s notable quotes focusing on darkness and light is: “Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.” This quote emphasizes the power of love and understanding in overcoming hate.
As you know I am devout in my Faith so I leave it to Him to handle. Life is short and eternity is LONG. So does Cluster B have no chance. No…. I believe that the light can shine through the cracks of a void or shattered or darkened soul. In fact nothing else can help.
Look at HG: yes he is cluster B, out for me. But he helps save lives. He did mine. I am eternally grateful and loyal. I keep him in my prayers as I do you and many others. All I was saying is God works in mysterious ways…. And I believe we all have souls even those identity challenged. 🙂
So yes of course darkness exists, even dark matter but see MLK
At what point? The moment a baby’s valid needs are not met. When it realises it is powerless to have the requirement of feeling safe in the arms of its mother, father, or environment fulfilled. Every baby feels and experiences instantly. They do not possess the ability to speak and explain what they feel and perceive, but they are immense in these abilities. They are open to everything, to every influence, which teaches them about their position in the world.
Identity builds as the result of both negative and positive experiences, rather. The process of maiming the little individual’s freedom to have its needs for safety met is what creates the fractured identity, which is still an identity.
The quote by Martin Luther King Jr. is great, agreed. However, it is the interpretation that leaves more space.
“Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.”
Self confidence drives out self doubt, but to get rid of self doubt completely would mean becoming overconfident and blinding oneself in one eye. When placed next to each other, the two opposites drive out the imbalance.
Light should not seek to drive out darkness completely, nor should darkness seek to extinguish light. It is only when one drives out the other completely that stagnation in the circulation of energy occurs, leading to limited experiences and separation.
We live through experiences of limitation right now because light tries to extinguish darkness, or darkness tries to extinguish light. And even this concept can be twisted by both light and darkness until true balance is achieved within oneself.
One other thing:
Narcissism and ASPD are still minorities. Imagine the world without love, acceptance, kindness, compassion that is… if the planet was still around. The vast majority of people love their families and friends and are just walking this planet trying to put food on the table worldwide. Step into any school, any soccer field, any neighborhood… love rules. And although I like money as much as anyone else, I would and am proud to be a middle class American surrounded by love. My faith, my integrity… I wouldn’t want to be Epstein or Maxwell for five minutes. A couch is something you sit on. Doesn’t matter the cost. An airplane is a bus. Private or public it’s A to Z. What these and others do for money… one in prison, the other dead in jail. For what? Money at a child’s expense. I would rather be naked, poor, hungry in a ditch or dead than to be them for a second. I don’t get it and so happy I don’t. What would please me is to be a prosecutor, to make them an example to others who prey on Gods children. I would not have chosen the easy path they got. Is that darkness in me? Or light? I don’t know when it comes to children who need protection.
“I wouldn’t want to be Epstein or Maxwell for five minutes.”
If you had their genetic predispositions and had been switched at birth, you would have most likely become them.
It is about recognising that we cannot judge their experience or them, because when faced with conditioning we do not truly have a choice in who we become, and often very little choice over our actions.
“I would not have chosen the easy path they got. Is that darkness in me? Or light? I don’t know when it comes to children who need protection.”
And you would have wanted to protect little Epstein and little Maxwell when they were children, where you could see how they were conditioned and why they became who they became.
You would protect the children but prosecute the adult versions of them. But in reality they are being mishandled twice. Becoming what they became was not something they consciously chose in isolation. It emerged from circumstances, influences, and environments coming together.
This does not excuse the harm done to others, but it invites reflection not to judge the imbalance in them which led to the mistreatment of others. From the very start, they were already misjudged and shaped by forces beyond their control.
Dear Jordy:
You got me. I agree that every adult is a product of dna and environment. I struggle with the concept of evil although many of my Christian friends do not. Mental illness versus evil. What about God the creator of it all? Why? Do the mentally ill have a choice? It’s like wars that kill innocents. My sympathy always lies with the victims. But what if the soldiers probably from poor families and very young that were just following orders kill innocents? Same conundrum. But removal. No contradiction. Predators need to be removed. They cause harm even in starting unnecessary wars. Here’s the thing about generational predators… it starts with ties to organized crime then it’s banking ( filtering hot or dirty money) real estate, construction, ( laundering hot or dirty money), fraud like ponzi schemes but could be insider trading, skimming off other peoples pensions, kick backs, bribery and even looting countries, especially third world, setting up philanthropic ventures that are really tax evasion and/ or venture capitalist schemes , data collection that can raid people’s privacy, and of course often leads to murder, blackmail and well sex trafficking. Read Whitney webbs books. But while the billionaire club is in control it is capricious. They die: often by mysterious suicide. They can even fall. Without the masses filled with normal and empaths, they cannot survive and they fear us. With good reason especially in gun toting American.
I feel for the Cluster B, I do. I married two. My pure psychopath was and is a good dad. We had a good marriage. Stable. Crime got in the way. My narc ex was an abuser and I don’t miss the abuse but we had good times and I love him. His journey will be hard. His childhood was worse. But I would gladly see him locked away before Hutu g another.
There’s a reason for prison and it works well. No need for higher moral thought….
Hi Contagious, 👋 hope you’re well.
This was interesting food for thought:
” What I find interesting is aware v unaware. So if my theory is right, a narcissist who is unaware couldn’t be aware as no self …… but a greater…. Well maybe his or her sense of self was fragmented but actually a form of it exists. Maybe a greater has an un-stable sense of self. A diminished true self? That would make sense and I would think the creature would feel different for a greater than the rest who are unaware. Not good but not a total void. Not a complete and utter freefall.”
I hadn’t put this together before so thank you. How can an unaware be aware of that which doesn’t exist? It will be interesting to see HGs take on this also and how the aware narcissists sense of self differs from the unawares…? 🤔
By the way, I’m with you on the immortality case! Immortality should be at the forefront of a living being’s concerns, since it is a natural phenomenon, I dare say. Prepare for the weak minded to pump out denial and bla, bla. But I know that your imagination is intact enough to recognise such an opportunity, should it exist. Now imagine the price for it were not to sell your soul and hand them power over you, but to throw out your idea of yourself while keeping control over your intent. Whatever that idea of yourself may encompass.
Humans use language and inventories of meaning to fix their limitations. Even when they speak of unlimited potential, they still restrict those potentials by trying to map them out, that is to say, by fixating in counterproductive ways. Whatever you take from human inventory, be it philosophy or science, it is fixation on inventory. Now, I’m not suggesting losing the inventory. As you know, I’ve explained in the past that human inventory helps to navigate the unknown in order not to end up in the asylum, where you can witness those who have lost their inventory but have not built another one to deal with what they can now directly perceive yet cannot navigate. They are free in one sense but caught in another.
When I examine your kind, I see that you’re all very fluid on the one hand but incredibly rigid on the other. Because you are on the brink of losing yourself through being too fluid, you compensate in order to remain sane and fit your surroundings to survive, by becoming incredibly fixated within black and white order, the heaviest fixation as compensation for such fluidity. The unknown crashes into you at every moment, and you walk a very thin line of survival that shields you from what awaits everyone where there are no protective shields of perception. In fact, yours are rather thin, which is why the abyss lurks in such close proximity. The fixation on control helps you hold on to a reality which you are on the brink of losing each time you awaken and have to assemble yourself back into the previous day.
Linear fixation arises through outer pressure from all the people who rely on the same inventory of meaning, defining parameters where immortality is too wide a concept to grasp, yet must be controlled and thus remain unattainable. Your kind is obsessed with immortality not just because you are greedy for life or control, but because through fluidity and an absent core identity you are closer to the truth of immortality’s potential. Your loss comes on the one hand from abusive circumstances, yet the side effect is fluidity, which is an advantage because it prevents fixation on rigid identities that can be easily manipulated.
However, your kind is stuck in a different area which keeps immortality at bay and also makes you a target for manipulation by a higher predator. And yes, I mean immortality of your current form, though that form will not be as important should you tap into wider opportunities of existence. You fixate within only one world where you can wield control, but immortality requires even greater fluidity, where no fixation can control you.
Think of it: you want immortality because of curiosity, accumulation and control. Curiosity brings you closer, the accumulation of experiences does as well, and control of your own destiny and potential is what it is all about. But as long as you have to rely on so many outer sources to feed off in order to fixate you in one form, immortality will evade you. Because out there you are on your own, and dependency makes you a target, fixing you to serve someone else’s hunger. You can understand that through first hand experience of your own. So it should click why your own fuel has to come from within you in order not to fall into a trap of “immortality” where you serve as fuel for someone else. Your predator’s mind allows you access to how slavery on universal bases works. Freedom ranks higher than immortality. You can even gain a form of immortality that you can read about in legends, yet still remain a captive. So it depends on what you truly want and on whether you can monitor your “wants” and “needs”. One needs an inventory to navigate, but not to fall for it. One wants freedom, not immortality on the condition of sacrificing one’s freedom.
And most importantly, it is not about empathy at all. Empaths are just as rigid and fixed as their captors; they are not any better equipped to deal with any of it. You can either go full blown empathy or full blown reasoning and reach a point of total understanding through silence. It does not matter which avenue you choose or are forced to use. One is not better than the other. Yours is reasoning, so you use that…
Hello Jordy:
I seek immortality because my Lord Jesus Christ said it existed. Jesus was the Prince of Peace and embodies not only what I want on planet Earth but what I want or strive to exist in my soul: live, kindness, forgiveness, giving/ community, justice, and freedom. I do not seek to control but I seek not to be controlled. Many upon many of my relations have said I was uncontrollable but none would say I sought to control them. That’s the difference. It’s not black versus white thinking. It’s to control or not. And that’s what you don’t understand about Faith. It’s about giving up control turning to a higher power letting his love through your veins. It is the opposite. It’s laying down at his feet and doing things against your natural urge to do what is right. How many were tortured through the crusades because they would not deny God? They were not trying to control. I think it is impossible for a narcissist or psychopath to truly understand a person who loves, who feels contentment, who feels joy, who wants community, truth , justice and freedom because if you cannot love yourself you cannot love others or begin to understand them. History has shown through the overthrow of Rome to the French Revolution to the end of slavery that oppression by a small elite can end and often does. Why? Community, justice, truth, love and freedom. I call it the Light.
Now I am not sure Mother Nature differentiates…. Lol
Actually, I understand your faith and where it comes from. You are referring to the feeling of being connected to something greater than yourself, and this also relates to the question of identity and the true self.
Identity can act as a limiting structure, whereas the true self is that which is connected to something beyond it. Identity creates deities as a way of speaking about what cannot easily be expressed, whilst the true self simply knows.
Through identity, knowledge becomes narrowed and can be distorted into dualities such as God and the Devil. The further this develops, the more one may become distanced from direct observation of what is actually happening, and from the true self that perceives it. Instead, identity can become entangled in concepts that turn into guiding frameworks, institutions, councils, teachers, influencers, bosses, managers, you name it.
But where do they lead? What do they tell you about the world? And why do you follow?
If you are going to bite, I prefer the neck lol.
Jordy: how do you define true self? Soul? Identity? The construct we get. I think we don’t have the same definitions. I love my children but while they were born with DNA and certain features… for example… my son kicked so hard during my pregnancy I thought he broke my ribs. The doctor says he will be “an active child. “ He was. He is an athlete, a boxer, a Marine. My daughter frightened me. I would schedule ultrasounds fearful she was dead as I never felt her move. I compared her to my son. The doctor said she was alive and it was normal. She was born a calm less active BABY. Not now. Very active child and adult. But my babies showed no true selves. They cried, they ate, they pooped. They cannot see well in the beginning. When they became toddlers, I saw differences and although trains, cars, and lots of boy toys were around. ….My daughter liked playing little mommy with dolls and my son liked to smash his cars together. My daughter liked Dora. My son liked Transponders. I did not “ force gender identity” they had their own little personalities and it did not stop there. They had their own food preferences, temperaments, and interests. Their own likes. But I didn’t see this until toddler years and after. Both were good eaters as babies, slept well. Easy babies. Same personality: cry, sleep, poop.
So again I am not certain about this true self concept at birth. I loved my babies and was very attentive to them and yes I bought the stupid baby Einstein and played the music ( which I am certain did nothing but … hey).
If true self is the dna you are born with… ok
I believe we have souls
But identity to me develops when you separate or don’t well from mom, when you are a toddler onward and explore the world. Maybe with language? dna has a lot to do with it. I think mostly. Twin studies prove this with scary un-believable results.
But yes, environment can affect identity and personality… of course. I just don’t think it starts with a baby. If a baby is not fed or held, it dies. And is there anyone who can recall being a baby? Do we have proof babies have memories? What do we know about a babies brain except it grows so rapidly?
Okay, the neck then 😋 Miam!
Let’s say the true self is closer to what one might call a soul-like concept, and it does not yet hold preferences for what is “good” or “bad”. It has not undergone the parental conditioning that imposes behaviour through such categories, like “good boys or girls behave this way, not that way”.
In a child, there is no duality yet of good and bad, nor of who the child is in relation to others. The child simply is. Equal in its state of being. That, to me, is the true self. It is fully attuned to its physical needs. It knows when it needs to eat, to sleep, to respond. It is not operating on imposed structures like schedules or expectations. The true self is called “true” because it has not yet divided into the delusions of the grown ups.
For example, a child born into a religious framework is taught what is “good” and what is “wrong”, who belongs and who does not, which belief is correct and which is not. That is identity formation, not inherent perception. The child itself does not divide in that way, it is taught to.
Identity is the mould, largely formed by the age of three or four. What follows is the refinement, articulation, and expression of that identity through language and behaviour. The child observes the parents and, in doing so, grasps which adult mould to attune to, setting the foundation of its identity, so to speak.
Adults often cannot comprehend how quickly this process unfolds, because they operate through already segmented parts of the brain and identity, rather than through their whole being.
The child, however, engages with its whole brain, or rather its whole being, and at a different speed, because its survival within the physical world depends on it. It needs to become as stable and defined as possible in order to navigate and endure within the structure it is born into. In doing so, it begins to separate from its true self and simplify itself in order to adapt and survive.
As for memory, the brain is indeed capable of extraordinary retention. There are rare conditions such as Highly Superior Autobiographical Memory, where individuals can recall vast amounts of personal experience in vivid detail, often tied to emotion.
One can access early states through feeling. Before language, there was perception and sensation. The brain registered those experiences. Not in words, but in states, impressions, and emotional imprints that can still be accessed.
Being in the presence of babies, a person who can attune through contagion empathy can read and experience their state. It is similar when you are in nature. There is no mental noise arising from identity, only a pure state of being, perceiving, and connection.
In that sense, the true self of the baby is fully present, experiencing life as it is, without constructed concepts. That is why it is called true. Thus, every human being is born with a true self.
And Jordy: I don’t want to open the door to a religious debate. But it is not “my identity” or “ my knowledge” that creates duality. It is the Alpha and Omega, HE that was before and the after, the designer of everything that exists before and after and the God that created me that has knowledge of duality. I might have free will but the duality existed before man was created….I don’t know how or why any better then how life is and was created or why there are butterflies or how exactly every part of our brain works or how dark matter exists and works and a great many un-answered questions that I have not been educated or that no man on this planet can answer or ever has. That’s why it is called Faith. And I think even without any education or even Faith, it would still be the same. But this is personal and my point of view, it only has to do with this blog in that I don’t see true self at all baby age, a soul- yes, life- yes. I have read nothing that demonstrates narcissism begins at zero other than a gene that is there at zero. Why do we have genes? I don’t know. 😉 😉
If I had to put government money into saving children from personalities disorders, as long as the baby is healthy and not dead because of course the health is necessary to every living thing… I would start at toddler age when the child is separating from the parent to foster a healthy separation and healthy childhood attachment and development. Wonderful wish… utopian in nature but there are some programs out there…. Who knows?
Contagious, hi love. As we go further into this, it becomes increasingly complex. We cannot really have a religious debate, because we are not working from the same foundational definitions of religion, philosophy, symbolism and so on. It would quickly become confusing.
Duality is about separation and division. It is relational and interaction based.
Alpha and Omega refers to one entity containing both ends, not two separate opposing forces.
Duality creates two separate entities or principles, such as God and Devil, which are treated as if they can exist independently.
Polarity, on the other hand, represents two extremes within one entity. One cannot exist without the other.
Duality says: “there are two different things.”
Polarity says: “there is one thing with two opposite ends.”
Duality, in my view, is a product of human perception, arising from separation from what you refer to as Alpha and Omega, the one entity containing both ends. That concept aligns more closely with polarity.
To simplify it. Duality creates the chess game. There are opposing sides, each attempting to diminish the other, creating imbalance. In the end, one side wins, either white or black.
Polarity is the chessboard itself, which exists before and after the game, holding both black and white in balance, making the game possible.
Identity forms within this and plays as either side, choosing positions, motives, truths, and frameworks. These are constructs of the psyche, not of the underlying essence.
The board itself remains untouched by the outcome of the pieces. In the same way, nature remains unaffected by human games of division. In nature, everything feeds into everything else. There is no ultimate winner or loser, only continuation.
Nothing seeks to fully extinguish the other in that system. That tendency emerges when human duality enters, attempting to dominate and disrupt balance, often in the name of faith.
So from this perspective, duality does not precede humanity, but arises through human perception.
Your definition of God as opposing the Devil stems from a framework of duality, which is a construct of human perception arising from separation. Alpha and Omega refers to something of a different nature entirely. You are conflating two concepts that are not the same.
Jordy: hi darlin! I appreciate your interesting response. Personally, and I get a lot of flack for this. I don’t believe Satan has any power. I believe you disconnect from God. I don’t believe in Hell. I think those who are dark go to nothingness. My minister friend tells me there is a word for this belief and I am wrong. But that’s my belief. So I don’t see a duality at all. I see everyone walking on this planet knowledgeable in religion or not as choosing a path of Light meaning love and goodness. And in measure. I see others as being destructive and dark and disconnected.
I believe in the legal version of criminal intent. Did they know right from wrong? Cognitively? No matter how we are born, we are given free will. Maybe some don’t have a capacity to know wrong from right. Most do. And those who know and chose to transgress can face persecution or prison. Personally I am against the death penalty but would put those destructive individuals away without a second breath for life to protect society.
And yes, if I could help someone seek the Light, I would at any stage but especially a child.
I don’t think it’s about duality or polarization, I think it’s about having the capacity to chose wrong from right. This can get clouded culturally but abuse is wrong, murder is wrong, etc… some darkness is universally wrong. No excuse. If I chose the definition of wrong by trying to walk in Jesus footsteps and worshipping him thats my own beliefs. It doesn’t mean that the acts of abuse can’t be condemned by Earthly men and women who put into laws to follow with prison terms if you do not.
I am not an anarchist. I am not even a libertarian. I believe fully in social justice. I just happen to have my personal Faith as my own guide as I look at life here as short and limited. Unless you don’t believe in life after death, you are an idiot if you don’t realize how short our time here is.
Lol, what do you mean those who are “dark” go into nothingness, if you believe in an afterlife? That’s like a totalitarian stance: “off you go into nothingness”😂 What happened to “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing”?
Would you not assume there was a reason they went dark, and that they also deserve to experience the light? To actually see the difference? To understand why they went there in the first place? And maybe eventually end up somewhere in the middle? Perhaps only then does a real, conscious choice even become possible?
You are of the view that everyone can choose love and goodness. I think it is a yes and no. Some can choose, others cannot. They have been conditioned in such a way that there is no real choice available to them.
We are saying the same thing but using different language when it comes to duality and polarity. Having the capacity to choose between what is “wrong” and “right” is polarity, moving along a spectrum, finding balance between opposites, not two separate forces fighting each other.
And this part is interesting:
“If I choose the definition of wrong by trying to walk in Jesus’ footsteps…”
If you walk in Jesus’ footsteps, then you also have to take what he actually said seriously: “I am the Alpha and the Omega…”, “I and the Father are one”, “I said, ‘You are gods, and all of you are children of the Most High'”, “The kingdom of God is within you”.
He is literally saying that you contain that full spectrum. That divinity is not outside of you, it is within you. So even when someone ends up deep in delusion, in duality, fighting one side against the other, they are still doing it within that same divine potential.
Yes, they commit crimes, yes they end up in prison, death penalty, all of that still applies on the earthly level. But fundamentally, that spark does not disappear, if we take Jesus’ words seriously.
And time… time is relative. This phase of amnesia, where the Alpha and Omega within a person is out of balance, is perhaps just a second within infinity. But the moment that amnesia lifts, everything could change. Energy comes back, awareness comes back… maybe even lifespan shifts with it… Who knows.