Found Out to a Greater Degree

I wrote last week about the situation where you tell a lesser member of our kind that you know what they are and how they react to it. What then of the response of those of us who belong to the greater school of narcissism? How do we react when you tell us that you know exactly what we are?

Those of us in the greater school possess three attributes which are relevant to this matter. Awareness, intelligence and malice. We know what we do. We know that this is regarded as wrong by other people (although we are always able to justify our behaviour when considered from our perspective) and we know that our behaviour hurts people but again it is entirely acceptable because we matter and you do not. We are superior and our sense of entitlement allows us to do as we please. We also do not possess the burden of guilt, remorse or compassion and therefore the effects of our behaviour cause us no trouble. There is no moral compass to guide us or hinder us. We may also be aware of exactly what we are, a narcissist. This is not always the case but we do know that we do is considered as abusive. We are intelligent enough to realise that the accusations of abuse fit with what is regarded as abuse, but we are also intelligent enough to know that we must engage in this behaviour because it is necessary to the preservation of our existence. The inherent tension that might exist between choosing to abuse someone and the impact on our existence is one whereby the need to exist will always outweigh the downsides of abusing someone (which are few when looked at through our world view. You would feel “bad” for hurting someone, you would be concerned about how this would affect you relationship or your friendship, you would worry about how others would view you, you would be concerned if it involved the authorities, your employer, your church and so forth. These concerns are much reduced in our world).

You may not realise that we are a narcissist but you do know our behaviour is abusive. Should you label us as an abuser and in support of this contention list the various instances of our behaviour, how do we respond. Our reaction is not subconscious and immediate like those of our lesser kind. We do not respond in a knee jerk reaction. We know that we are abusive and your labelling of us as such initially has two reactions.

The first is that we fear that we are losing control. Control is hugely important to us because we want you doing everything that we want and nothing that we do not want in order to ensure that you provide us with fuel. Our machinations and manipulations are all designed to gain and maintain control. Much of this is achieved by you remaining oblivious to what is happening to you or mitigating its effect by blaming yourselves (which we aim to achieve) or making excuses for us (again, something we aim to bring about). If you do not truly understand what is happening to you, you remain paralysed in this confusion and you will not do anything about it. You will not challenge us, you will not try to escape us, you will not shut off the supply of fuel. Accordingly, we need to keep you bound to us and compliant. This requires control. If we think that our control is being challenged, is slipping or is being eroded then we must establish it and do so quickly. I will return to how this is done in a moment.

The second reaction is that your moment of enlightenment that we are an abuser (or even worse you actually know we are a narcissist) is one of wounding. You have found us out. You have seen through us. You have worked us out. The potential loss of control is troubling, this being found out is terrifying and damaging. You have wounded us because you have criticised us. By telling us that you know what we are, we have failed in maintaining the state of confusion, bewilderment and ignorance. You have pierced the veil. We are mightier than you, superior to you and better than you, how can it be that someone like you has managed to unravel what we are? What else are you capable of? Who might you tell? We have failed. We hate failing. It reminds us of things we have consigned to the darkest recesses of our mind and now you, you hateful, treacherous, disloyal bitch have done this on purpose. You have done this after everything that we have done for you, because you want to hurt us don’t you? This failure to keep you in the dark amounts to a massive criticism of us. This in turn ignites the churning fury that is always there beneath the surface. This ignited fury will mean we either withdraw, unleash cold fury or unleash heated fury.

Our awareness of what we are actually makes us more vulnerable to the accusation of “I know what you are, you are an abuser, a narcissist” than those of our lesser or mid-range brethren. We are far more susceptible to being wounded by this outing. Our awareness equates to a weakness.

All is not lost for us of course. Our intelligence means that whilst we know what we are and we are wounded by your awareness and accusation, we are not without the means of addressing it. Our intelligence allows us to deflect and deny. We will utilise these twins to fight back, applying our considerable minds to deny what you have said. We will challenge your evidence, deny its existence, twist it around, pull it apart, change the subject, focus on something different, blame-shift and project. Powered by our heated fury this onslaught will be brutal and sustained as we fight to regain control. We will batter you into submission so that you become frightened, upset, angry or frustrated and thus you will give us fuel. Our further manipulations will allow us to regain control as you shrink back from our vicious words. Everything will be thrown at you in order to stop the wounding, regain control and gain the required fuel to power this defence mechanism.

If the situation is one where we cannot risk heated fury then we will issue a flat denial and engage cold fury by subjecting you to an icy and prolonged silent treatment, either of the present or absent variety.

If really necessary and this is of the last resort, we will withdraw to escape your wounding and find solace with another who will provide us fuel to repair the gaping wound that you have ripped in us. We will remain away from you for some time as we recover and enjoy the fuel from other sources as we recuperate. We will return of course because there is a score to settle and more fuel to draw from you, but for now that will have to wait.

We will also engage our energies, once we have gained more fuel (either from you if we unleash our heated fury, from you and others if we unleash cold fury and from others if we withdraw) in rolling out a smear campaign against you. Now you know what we are and we know you know, we need to ensure that this pollution does not spread elsewhere. We will up our seduction of other sources so that they like us all the more and ensure we spread poison about you so you are not believed if you try to tell other people that you know what we are.

Finally, the third attribute comes into play. Malice. The mid-range of our kind would withdraw and seek fuel elsewhere and be done with you for some time until a hoover of positive fuel through a Benign Hoover takes place. The mid-range of our kind would unleash heated fury or cold fury to stabilise the position but then would engage a Respite Hoover or a Preventative Hoover aimed at playing down what you know, restoring the golden period for a while so you focus on that and not this new knowledge or to prevent you leaving us armed with this new knowledge. The mid-range narcissist would do all of this to try and diffuse the situation and prevent it being brought up again. This does not apply to those of us who are of the greater variety. You must be punished for your terrible offence against us. Your transgression must be addressed. Your treachery must meet with a consequence. Once we have established control again and recovered from your awful wounding of us then you will be subject to a malign and brutal campaign as punishment for what you have done. This will happen if you remain with us in a relationship. It will happen if you have tried to escape us. We want to rain hell fire down on you in order to punish you for your disgusting behaviour. This is our right. This is our entitlement. This is how we respond.

You may know what we are, but if you are dealing with the greater of our kind, you may reflect on whether you really ought to make it known to us.

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76 thoughts on “Found Out to a Greater Degree”

  1. My phone locked up when I hit send on this comment, so not sure if it went through – question is this:
    Does the wounding still happen on being confronted as a narcissist / abuser if presented in an emotionally charged communication? Or does it need to be delivered in a flat, emotionless way to truly be effective?
    (If previous question did go thru, sorry to be redundant!)

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  2. It would never ever occur to me to diagnose and ” call” somebody a person with a name used by mental health professionals. If really the need to make a point on this issue I would say mentally unstable or mentally ill and anyway knowing what a big offense this is for a person I would refrain from doing this.
    Many many people do not have any diplomacy nor carefulness to give such labels to others, not realizing the hurt this causes.
    I have never told or called any of my exes anything like this. Not even crazy or mentally ill. Two of them know I am on twitter and I dont know what they think when they see my retweets of this blog and HG’s tweets. I am pretty sure they have seen.
    Anotheor saw my book of Ross Rossemberg ( where it says “relationship with narcissists and Borderlines) on top of my piano and told me, I thought you were concentrating on more positive things in your life…. I said nothing…..

    In any case it was also very interesting the second part of this ” series” when you tell an N he is an N. Its “interesting” to see how it affects and the different reactions depending the type of N. Great 🙂
    its not anymore the case but I would say the best is to make it through a therapist, subject matter expert because I think its much easier and the relationship has many more chances of surviving when people are aware of what they are. There is a chance that the person will like to understand and eventually improve or work on his “demons” or flaws. and I have seen not only here with the awareness created by HG and this excellent blog but in my personal life also. I think in many cases its the form of adressing it.

    Best Scenario is when both people are aware of the existence of many flaws in them. 🙂 🙂 🙂 😉

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  3. I had the popcorn ready HG, but you didn’t show ?

    So I sat there in the corner on my own, crying into my popcorn, just sitting and rocking.

    Great article though HG. I was so tempted the other week when my MN made some reference to me cleaning with a broom to say, ‘and I thought your preferred method was to use a hoover’. So glad I didn’t. Thbaks for the advice, ugh it’s still so tempting though Hahha – but I will exert self control.

    The N on the other hand made repeated references to Narcisists, I asked him jokingly each time he mentioned, what does he know about Ns and was he one? He didn’t answer. I often remarked when he said certain things, ‘stop projecting’ nothing more though.

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    1. You can make those assertions and if you do so in a flat emotion-free manner you will land a blow. You will no doubt feel good for having done so. It is the retribution you need to be aware of. Is the popcorn soggy now?

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      1. Oh he has tried so many hoovers, I’m not flat and emotionless as such, more take the piss to be honest in a way that we can still maintain a fake friendship.

        Popcorn is soggy and extra salty – are you on your way ? I’ll keep the tears in my eyes HG, just for you. So you can feel the fuel flow x

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    1. Thank you. The N will be intelligent, calculating, articulate, not one to suddenly react – you will notice a moment (maybe longer) of consideration before there is a response. They are less likely to use physical violence. They are capable of keeping many “plates” spinning at once. They exhibit a greater sophistication in their behaviour and organisation of their behaviour, there may be occasional tells where for example if drunk they may remark “I know what I am” but will say no more. If you are subjected to repeated projection where you are accused of being a narcissist it is likely that the real narcissist is self-aware.

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      1. I keep thinking that this one is low-functioning, but bit by bit he is proving me wrong. Less-intelligent than the target does not necessarily mean UNintelligent. I am not sure how much difference it makes (knowing whether or not they are self-aware). Either way, their reaction will be similar (denial, blame-shifting, threats, loudness…).

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    1. Oh but one can. If one takes into account the fact that these people’s power is far from limitless and any impression that it is is just a result of brainwashing and propaganda on their part. Our retribution can be just as fear inducing if we are just brave enough to mete it out.

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      1. It probably depends on the spectrum of the Narc you are dealing with. A physically abusive one, you just plain need to escape and never look back. But the one I had, the only retribution is another icy silent treatment that will go on longer than his normal ones. It was worth it to me to let him know I see under the mask, whether it was fuel or not. Him scurrying off to hide and be silent makes him a cockroach!

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      2. Well yes, I wouldn’t necessarily recommend it you don’t have the stomach for it. But my ex boss used to say that a cartoon of me would involve me brandishing an elephant gun emblazoned with the word ‘Justice’. Mine left a death threat on my answer phone a few weeks ago after I played a little trick on him (after reading Revenge HG, but tailored to suit)..Silly, silly boy. He still sent me an email on my birthday though – sweet! All other avenues are blocked. I haven’t read it mind you but I sent him a bit of aversion therapy a few days later. It was along the lines of what’s been discussed here. No mention of the N word, just references to the lack of anything of substance behind the mask and his acute, chronic neediness – that shared by all narcs – and likened him to another conman that we know; someone that he regarded as really rather inferior. I got a response but I haven’t read that either. He used to be violent sometimes but I absolutely refused to be afraid of him then and that’s even more the case now. And I guess that’s why I find this blog quite fun as I can direct little digs at HG from time to time. I find it quite therapeutic. Cheers HG

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      3. Agreed! A harmless tactic from H.G.’s book, “Revenge” can do the soul good. Hee hee

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  4. It is so tempting an must feel so good to shove the Narcs noses into their own empty cold true self but apart from like you said, HG, the fleeting moment of satisfaction, I have never seen the point. It is warning the Devil we are onto him, increasing his belligerance, his mean factor, unleashing all his tricks and guns and setting ourselves for extermination. I have been tempted myself more than once to tell off the android accross but resisted the urge as I coul not see any possible positive outcome, and I am releived to read now that it was the right decision. I think the truth is for those who deserve it and speak it, otherwise it is like talking an unknow foreign language to someone who doesn’t and never will grasp it and just another waste of time, breath and energy. Thank you for your brilliant books and very useful blog.

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      1. Hello HG, you are welcome :). I have unfortunately run into several “androids” in my lifetime, took far too long to identify the first ones but finally developped a good N radar (hopefully). Main signs were and remain the compulsive lying (I was shocked when lying was used even when completely unnecessary) the self-entitlement, the self-pity party (over shockingly small facts in the past) and the blurting without being requested a ridiculously long and incredible bio depicting how extraordinary, exceptional, blessed and chosen the android is. To sum it up I would say, communicating with a Narc, the sure flag for me is that word salad that attacks your brain like a mind-blowing hurricane, hijacking your thinking. There is always too much of something with Narcs (silence, common grounds, attention, compliments, info, achievements, words, risk …. etc).

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  5. I always stopped myself from lashing out and screaming the truth and what I had learned… What good would it do? I felt as if I was fighting with a child, and a disordered one at that… A terribly wounded soul….It just didn’t feel good to me… Even when he was verbally abusive himself! I started feeling better and I started to heal, when I honored myself first and fought for my dignity.. A difficult fight….

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    1. If you had screamed it Evan that would have just been fuel. If you decide to reveal what you know, for it to have any effect it has to be delivered without emotion, business-like as if you were reading the evening news.

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      1. Thank you for the advice..☺️ He texted me a few days ago that his heart was hurting! He misses me.”… I haven’t responded in so long, but he is trying my patience…. He is waiting for me to blow, but I won’t give him the satisfaction…. I do have your voice in my ear though… So many thanks….

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      2. What do you exactly mean by have its effect? Effect meaning create awareness? Or disturb? Hurt the narcissit?
        Already clarence had the same answer but I still dont get really what effect should be?

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  6. I only fantasize about screaming the truth… I couldn’t do it, but you have me thinking about revealing the truth, in a calm, business – like manner…. Help me with the script in case I cave …😉 Pretty please….

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    1. Navigate your way through empowering your self so that you can actually assimilate your healing into your experience. You need to be in a place of empowered assimilation in your healing.

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      1. A bit of a giveaway I must concede but well worded. Part of my staying aware and alert + healing actions, reading your work also helps tremendously. Bringing the narcissist to life, talking to us without restraints or mellowing ….. finally. Thank you!

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    1. But you cant heal and at the same hurt the person that hurt you. Thats no healing….
      I only see the point of telling somebody he is an N is with the intention of looking for a solution or a therapy but not to hurt… This brings nothing…

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      1. It is quite normal and healthy when at a certain stage of healing, to share that one has identified the behaviours and or diagnosis of the abuser. I do not think the context of the questions and statements here are around hurting another. It sounds as if you are over identifying with the predator.

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      2. Noooo dont tell me this!! Stockholm syndrome!!! OMG.
        I hope its rather my principle that you forgive rather than hurt back!
        I understood it was being discussed on how to deliver the news to the N in the manner that it would hurt him the most… And its to this that I see no point. Why to hurt instead of looking for a solution but like clarence says it seems this is also a way of healing and each looks for their own way. Its valid just not my way.

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      3. Nikita not everything has a solution. Anything that compromises your self worth, does not contribute to your state of being in a peaceful and nurturing manner and is not driven by genuine reciprocity is harmful to all parties involved.

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  7. Before I knew that N3 was an N, I wrote him an email that wasn’t fueled with emotion. I wanted him to know I was on to his mind games and mental abuse and I could never be with him because I’d never date a man so cruel. I told him the last straw was his behavior to me after the deaths in my family. I asked him if he was proud of himself for that. I told him he’d never meet another woman that loved him like I had. However, I told him that he would soon find that out for himself. I told him I was moving on….because I was ready to be loved the way I deserved to be. I wished him the best, and hit send.

    I had no emotion at that point. He was ignoring me for two weeks, so I had time to process what had happened. The time and space really opened my eyes to how emotionally abusive he was, and I told him this. I told him to treat the next woman better too. I told him flatly that he had been an ass since our breakup, and he should know that too.

    I’ve only had a few Hoover’s since then. That was on 1/16/2016.
    I’ve been no contact since then!

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      1. I must admit I still have to read dates twice when posted by people from the US just to ensure I am not dealing with a time traveller!

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  8. More so the predatory Bx’s (behaviors) as yes it is true underneath these behaviours is a living breathing human being, however, we are not speaking to that construct within this thread.

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  9. I never called exH a narc, but I’d long been NC by the time I figured it out. He did know that the veil was pierced, and after 20 years I KNEW that he wasn’t the nice, considerate, affable guy he pretended (so well) to be, but was a lying, cheating, manipulative bastard. Almost 2 years since I went NC, he hasn’t tried to Hoover. He knows he can’t, as his cover was so completely blown, but he does triangulate with out children.

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    1. Hello Divined1va and thank you for your post. Did you convey to him that you knew what he was? How did he respond? His triangulation using your children is a way to gather fuel and is a hoover by proxy, it is evident he is wary of engaging you directly.

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  10. Excellent post – many truths and facts, here!

    Exposing the weakness is like uncovering the shiny red button…the gills on the shark, or the vent in the Death Star. For all of the perceived power the malignarc holds, it doesn’t take much to crack that shell. It’s so thin, you see!

    The best time for the “thrall” to make an exit is when the malignarc is stretched the thinnest…in my experience, that is!

    Flat, emotionless affect definitely helps – no fuel is derived from a mask.
    🙂

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  11. Very well written and true. My ex is a clinically diagnosed narcissist/borderline/antisocial personality disorder psychopath during our marital counseling (which he then decided our psychiatrist was a quack who couldn’t possibly be right and he didn’t need to go back anymore, this after my ex had told me I was the crazy one and that’s the reason we started counseling…) As soon as you start peeling away the masks, he goes berserk. I had started telling him about himself a few months ago, telling him how I knew exactly what he was, and he doesn’t have the same amount of impulse control. He hits. He put 10 stitches in my eye that morning, all in front of our daughter. Then he proceeded to hit himself and call the police (I had already called and was on the phone with the 911 dispatcher when he called) and say that I was the one attacking him. He even told the police I was “off of my medications” (which I take NONE), and was aggressive to him, which never happened. He was convicted of domestic violence in February, and has now filed an appeal for his conviction so it will go to a jury trial. Needless to say there is overwhelming evidence to support my side of the story, yet he continues to lie, so much so that the whole trial seemed to me like I was on trial as to whether or not I had struck him (which never happened). It’s insane. He even tried to make our 4 year old daughter testify for him and lie for him, which backfired for his defense. It’s a horrible thing to keep having to deal with this man, and I know that it all stems from figuring him out, from doing my research after the psychiatrist diagnosed him, and learning how to deal with the lies and manipulation. His appeal is for nothing more than to feel like he is further torturing me, and he has filed for sole custody of our daughter for the third time, which he lost already twice. We have a no contact order currently in place, as well as a protection order, yet he still will violate the order and send me pictures of himself. It’s just insane. I am just ready to be finally rid of this man. But the smear campaign against me continues.
    Your words were spot on. They couldn’t have been more accurate as to how he acts and reacts. I am so keenly aware of narcissistic tendencies now that I spot them in so many people I know. But just wanted to let you know there are others that truly understand the nature of the narcissist, and I so enjoy reading your posts.

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    1. Hello NS thank you for your post and your compliment. Your situation exemplifies the behaviours that arise when you “out” the narcissist. His desire to regain control is huge – controlling your daughter, the situation (hitting himself), the police, the courts, other people (smear campaign) and of course you.

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  12. Hi F&R

    yes this true but the fact that if I hurt back or not does not benefit me neither.
    Yes this is true, not everything has a solution, sometimes you just have to take a decision and leave, this is clear.
    But to hurt the other on the way does not bring more than if I take a decision and hurt thr other.
    For me hurting who hurt me even if there is no solution does not bring me an added value nor healing.
    And anyway my approach would be look for a solution and if there is no improvement then leave yes, but in peace like I have always done.
    This is the best way… At least for me.

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  13. Malignnarc you are in my prayers after me reading all this . You helped me healed. My questions answered. Salute you for knowing yourself so fully and be open about it . I had two year relationship with top level narc. Even after divorce I wanted to marry him again . Blessing in disguise he didn’t want to ..

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    1. Hello FA and thanks for your post. Where are you upto in terms of your situation with him? Does he contact you still, if not, when did he last do so? When was your moment of realisation as to what you had got yourself into?

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  14. Hi HG

    I went no contact after reading your blogs . I had no idea I was dealing with Narc till after reading your writings and your comments. We divorced in January 2014. That’s after three month of being married . How we divorced is another story . But I thank God now for it . After divorce we still kept seeing each other , we weren’t living together . I have two kids but lucky he not the dad and lucky no kids with him . We were sleeping together even after divorce I just couldn’t stop loving him I infact felt I’m not giving him enough love may be ….. he is very addictive . It has been three weeks I went no contact. HG you’ll be amazed to know he spiritually abused me . He knew I’m close to God and I feel heart broken he potrayed himself to me what is he not only to get my attention . In reality he doesn’t do what he potrayed . And I only figured that out after reading your blogs and books

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    1. Hello FA, I am pleased that found insight and enlightenment through your reading. Yes, the reality that its was only an illusion is difficult to reconcile and this is deliberate as the desire for it to be real provides a conduit for us to draw you back in. Has he tried to contact you since you have instigated NC or have you put yourself beyond a position of being contactable?

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  15. I have blocked him on phone. I won’t know if he has texted/rang. He ll have to come to my work. The last time we spoke I told him that I am aware that he knows what exactly he is doing and he enjoys doing it. He replied saying since when you became clever . So he might not contact me now that he knows I’m clicking on

    I want to stay strong . I feel if I see him all those feelings will come back so hope he doesn’t show or contact. Out of sight out of mind

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  16. Every time I read this article it hits home. I was warned from the beginning that he knew what he was. I knew what he was – it is so obvious – when I disclosed it there was an echo of the factual realization without emotion. Like he was proud that I figured it out and then told me there are more layers and I will never truly understand. It’s funny on how predictable your kind is. The first one wasn’t threatened until the end and his hot colors surfaced. The second peacocked those vibrant colors very early and more frequent and obviously much more threatened by my leaving. But your terms of rain hell Phyre, monster, cold black heart, is used by him daily.

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  17. You’re right again HG, this is the way he behaves now I’ve called him out. Cold and getting on with his life but I see the fury when he does look at me.

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  18. How long does it usually take for this hoovering to begin again? It’s been a year since we broke up. He went straight into another relationship (like in a few weeks). So it’s been going on for about a year, which is about how long he can keep the mask on, before everything starts going to h#ll.

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    1. Hello Camille. If you escape us then the Initial Grand Hoover will happen pretty quickly. Thereafter the Follow-Up Hoovers depend on whether you enter a sphere of influence (see the article about this) and whether the conditions support the execution of the hoover once it has been triggered by you entering the relevant sphere of influence (see Hoover Time- Sphere One). Accordingly, the hoovering is based on conditions rather than a set time period. It might be days, it might be years.

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  19. Tudor,
    what if your partner says to you “I know exactly who you are”, and then expresses her full acceptance of real you and willingness to continue your relationship, but she asks kindly to stop all mental games and abuse. How would you react?

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      1. Even if she is ready to accept the real you?

        Unfortunately, in that case you have all chances to loose the “one”. Imagine, no games, no pretence anymore. Luxury to be yourself. Victory?

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