The End?


Image result for picture of man saying goodbye to a woman


The discard has happened. Most likely you have worked out that you have been dumped, cast-off, tossed to the wayside or you may be one of the “luckier” ones who has received some kind of explanation that the Formal Relationship is over. But is it the end and what can you expect from the manner by which this Formal Relationship has been brought to a conclusion? What does what has happened really mean? There are several different scenarios which can occur in this instance and I shall explain what each one means to aid your understanding and to enable you to then decide how you can better protect yourselves.


  1. The Vanishing

You have been discarded but there was no explanation provided. You were not told that the Formal Relationship has ended. No message, no telephone call and not even a message through a third party. You have not had to learn that we are seeing somebody else through a friend to suddenly realise that the wonderful relationship you once cherished has been brought to an end. Not only has there been no explanation, you are completely unable to contact us. You ring our number. You have either been blocked or the number has changed. You try and track us down at home (if you knew where that was) but we have moved out or there is no way of gaining admittance to see us. You cannot get past the gatekeeper to find us at work. The usual bars and other haunts where you might hope to find us are devoid of our presence. It is as if we have vanished off the face of the earth.

We will be imagining your upset and distress at being discarded and also being unable to see us and this will provide us with some Thought Fuel but this is limited. We do not want anything more to do with you (for now). We are not interested in gathering further fuel from you. There is no triangulation. This happens when we have been able to embed a brilliant new source of primary fuel (often without you knowing) and our needs are now being met from this person. They have our total focus and they are so good that you really are less than an afterthought. Of course there remains the possibility of you being hoovered, subject to entering the relevant spheres of influence, but that is not going to happen for months, possibly even longer. We have our eyes on a different prize and feel no need to even look to you for any kind of fuel for quite some time. It is cold comfort for you to be treated this way but if does provide you with a clear run at recovery and no contact without ongoing hoovers, that is of course if you are able to drive us from your soul and heart.


  1. The Statfa


The Statfa (short for the stay the fuck away from me) is the scenario where you have been discarded with no explanation. You are however able to contact us in some way. Naturally, you are bound to do this because you want to know what on earth has just happened, why we have not called you in several days, not answered our ‘phone when you have called or not responded to messages that you have sent. Upset and puzzled, you have waited for us outside of the office or ambushed us at the supermarket. You want answers but you are not going to get them. You will be told that you are crazy, a psycho, a stalker and that you should stay the fuck away from us.

This is done to draw negative fuel from you by compounding your distress with our aggressive and dismissive response. In this instance we have not been able to perform the Vanishing and thus we remain open to you appearing. We are not interested in drawing further negative fuel from you because we want to concentrate on our new and shiny primary source of fuel. The fact that you have re-appeared causes us to feel ashamed, hence the aggressive response. We are ashamed that we have not been able to remove you from the face of the earth because you are a reminder that we once had to rely on you for our fuel, someone who we truly despise. We are sickened at the thought that we had any reliance on someone like you and we do not want you to remind us of this, so stay away. We do not want you messing up this brilliant new fuel source that we have obtained., so stay away. You are a thorn in our side and we want rid of you, so stay away. If you do not, expect further vitriolic responses and then there will be the unleashing of measures designed to keep you away – our lieutenants will be dispatched, legal letters and visits from the police will follow. You of course cannot understand why you are being treated this way. You still want answers but they will not be forthcoming. The hoover will come, subject to the usual considerations, but as in the scenario above, it will not be for some time.


  1. Half-Answers

You will actually be told that the Formal Relationship is at an end. It may be through a message, a telephone call or even face-to-face. You can expect this scenario to be more likely when dealing with Greater Narcissists (possibly some mid-range). In this scenario you will receive some fabricated explanation about why we can no longer go on together and usually it will be based on us rather than you.

“I cannot stand to hurt you any longer.”

“I just need time to think what I am doing and it is not fair to make you wait.”

“I have to work a few things out.”

“I guess this is just who I am.”

Be under no illusion, these comments are not being made because we recognise that we are at fault. We are never at fault. Nor are these comments being made because we recognise that we have some kind of problem, we do not, you have the problem, but we are savvy enough to realise that performing some kind of mea culpa routine is an ideal way of keeping you hanging on. In typical empathic fashion, you will want to understand, you will want answers and you will want to help. This scenario is designed to end the Formal Relationship but allow you to hang around as much as you like. There is no diktat for you to keep away from us, we may even suggest we remain friends and such like. You will find out soon enough that you have been replaced, we may even tell you. All of this is done from a sadistic position of wanting to see how crushed you are as we tell you in part what has happened. We want to witness your reaction to draw that Proximate Fuel from you and also to revel in the exercising of our power. We want to see how you beg, cling and plead. We are replacing you but we want you to hang around because we know there is more fuel to be gained, triangulation to engage in and a marvellous game of push and pull to perform.

You will keep in touch with us, hoping to win us back, to gain answers, to try and find closure and therefore the hoovering will be minimal because in fact they are reverse hoovers as we create a situation where you keep in touch with us. We will explain it away to the new primary source that you have “issues” and we are trying to help you understand it is over, when all we are doing is keeping you around for fuel, not letting you gain any closure so that we can reinstate you in an instant when we deem it appropriate to do so, as the primary source.


  1. The Knifing

This scenario is akin to the one above except it is combined with telling you to stay away from us. There is the benefit, to us, of gaining Proximate Fuel by telling you that the Formal Relationship is over. This scenario is more common with Lessers and lower Mid-Range Narcissists. There is no mea culpa because the narcissist I not sophisticated to engage in creating a false sense of responsibility for the demise of the relationship. Instead, he or she will entirely blame you. You are a whore, a psycho, a nutcase, you are lazy, ugly, fat, smelly, uncaring, selfish, bipolar, mental – you think of the insult and it will be flung at you. It is nasty and brutal. A new primary source has been lined-up and we want to focus on that person but not before telling you just what an awful person you are and as part of this aggressive step to tell you to remain away from us. This is driven again by shame, but rather than sling away from you, it manifests as an explosion of rage as you are told in no uncertain terms that you are at fault for the relationship foundering, we have done nothing wrong and we are leaving you. You will probably be told about the new primary source as well and hellishly triangulated at the moment of discard as we describe how much better he or she is than you. You are given a thorough roasting through this dressing down. We then want you stay away because we truly think you are a psycho and we do not want you spoiling our wonderful new relationship with the primary source. The hoovers will come in due course, but again not for some time.


  1. The Parade

You are discarded. There is no explanation. You find out when we are seen by others (or even you) cosying up with our new primary source. This newcomer will have been warned about you and how dangerous you are, that you are unstable and abusive. This has been done to prime the triangulation that we will engage in by showing off our new acquisition. You will react and we will no doubt be confronted by you. The new primary source will already be brainwashed by our smearing of you, but this will not stop you trying to convince her she has made a mistake as you try to find out what on earth is going on. You will say we were together last week and we will calmly deny it saying the relationship ended three months ago but “she” just won’t accept it, she is made, a crazy, a stalker. The new primary source will always believe you and you will open up, pouring out fuel for us as a consequence of having your replacement paraded before us in such a callous and hurtful manner. You will be drawn in by reverse hoovers as you keep trying to convince her to get away from us and as you try to tell us wat you really think of us. If you do not, expect to have “us” rubbed in your face through all manner of Relationship Bulletins which are in effect hoovers as we continue to triangulate you, not wanting you back, but to draw fuel, either positive or negative from you.

93 thoughts on “The End?

  1. I'M YOU says:

    And what if… The Scenario is a little bit different? For example : He started the devaluation stage and like you described there was many questions about why are you doing / saying this just after a golden meeting . In this process I should think of all his suggestions that he madecand talk about them after few days ( no contact should be implemented ) . But next day I just let him know that I don’t want to continue this relationship and surprise … He didn’t want any explanation… I let him without fuel? I just need your confirmation HG Tudor. By the way, thanks in advance and congratulations for your work.

  2. Christine says:

    I was with my ex for 1 year and 2 months and was the primary source. After it ended i went though 2 stages in a month! Last one being The Statfa and he called the police on me! After another month he came back hoovering for intimacy. I knew that his other supplies had failed and he told me they were only friends. I knew this to be a lie. But then he secured a new source 2 months later. Maybe primary as he very defensive of her and becomes very angry when i threaten to tell her about him and has said he is dating her ( would be 2 months of dating her now) . Once I decided to express hatred towards her, he has put me through the The Statfa stage again as I just can’t be nice. I do it to provoke him.. but no idea what will happen now. I have started no contact!

  3. Lizzie Marie says:

    HG– oh my did I anger the beast. Is anger the right word? Two weeks ago I presented written proof of a lie– not even a big lie– and pushed my narc hard about it. I then said I am not afraid of your little tantrums, I do not care what the effects are. I will write what I want and keep defending myself (of course this is all texting, gaslighting through texts and “I’m fucking busy just stop!”) and you can’t stop me. I told him to go fuck himself. I told him he was a liar and I could say go fuck yourself when I catch you in a blatant lie.

    He disappeared. I quickly lost my bravado and the trauma bond easily won… by day three of silence I was in a full panic. All texts and calls were unanswered. Day six I was a complete disaster. A two word answer (to rub in the error of my ways he escaped to our “lovers getaway” city without me) and I was begging and promising to change once again.

    He said we could have a five minute conversation on Monday. Surprisingly he allowed this and answered my call. I set the timer and let him go when five minutes came up. It was truly the only way I felt any power in all those days. Kinda funny actually.

    He left again this week. New supply I am sure. I am being punished very deeply. I hate that it works, even when I know everything that he is doing. I have proved I am not steady supply, so he discards me often. But never fully, and never fully chooses a new chain of supply (let alone puts it in my face, new women are very hidden). What stage are we in what can I expect in the future? I will never end it, it is too painful. Will he?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Hello LM, it is difficult to say because

      1. I do not know how your interaction began, how long your golden period was and if you are a primary source (I have my suspicions you might not be);
      2. I don’t know whether the discards you refer to are really silent treatments during devaluation, “discards” or just picking you up and putting you down as a intimate partner secondary source;
      3. Have you been experiencing devaluation and for how long when you “angered the beast:
      4. You mention new women are very hidden but you evidently know about them
      5. Why will you not end it?

      The scenario throws up a lot of additional detail, variables and questions which would be better suited to a consultation.

  4. 1jaded1 says:

    Is J1 a narc? Or, just a protector? Or both? What say you? She can’t annihilate me. I’m so fn happy for that. If anyone ends this relationship, it will be me. Surprisingly not off topic, given the title.

    1. HG Tudor says:


      1. 1jaded1 says:

        Very good. Thank you.

      2. 1jaded1 says:

        Now I have to get prickly. Why did you answer protector? Would you consider yourself somewhat of a protector to the one within? You have good in you. Letting it out without strings wouldn’t be a horrible thing.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          I was referring to you as the protector 1jaded.

          1. 1jaded1 says:

            I know…why? What makes me different from you? Why do you not consider yourself a protector? I still see the good…

          2. HG Tudor says:

            I only protect myself and not others.

          3. 1jaded1 says:

            Of course. J1 protects herself and me. That makes her a caring thing. You protect your person inside you and you…Glad we cleared that one up.

  5. Shane says:

    I have a question. Do they expect you to run after them when they discard you? And does it hurt their ego if you don’t?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Yes and yes.

  6. 1jaded1 says:

    So here is my New Order contribution.

    I’m not some kind of foolish lover
    I couldn’t take this from another
    It’s no good being cool with me
    ’cause I always know what it takes
    To make you my lover.

    Guilty Partner…

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Here is one back at you 1jaded

      When I was a very small boy,
      Very small boys talked to me
      Now that we’ve grown up together
      They’re afraid of what they see
      That’s the price that we all pay

      1. 1jaded1 says:

        Excellent. HG. Here’s a twofor Tuesday. Cuts of deep.

        I don’t belong to no one
        But I want to be with you
        I can’t be owned by no one
        what am I supposed to do

        I can’t see ths sense in your leavin’
        all I need is your love to believe in
        and for you I would do what I can
        but I can’t change the way that I am

        My life ain’t no holiday
        I’ve been to the point of no return
        I’ve seen what the man can do
        I’ve seen all the hate of the woman too.

  7. Secondary? Second to none HG, Get it straight. Tertiary? Only 3 is Bizarre Love Triangle by New Order. Now go to YouTube and reminisce.

    1. 1jaded1 says:

      I could fall in love with you ABB.

      1. 1jaded1 says:

        Tertiary is a great word…

  8. luckyA says:

    My soon to be ex narc husband left after he raged which I couldn’t take any more. I told him to leave. First he said that was awful but since I told him I couldn’t take his breaking things and screaming, he changed the story and told me there was nothing I could do to make him come back. Like I wanted him back… Maybe he is using malign hoovering because he didn’t discard me after all, he wasn’t prepared for this? Is it possible he was expecting me to beg him to come home bc he thought I wouldn’t manage on my own with a little baby and no help whatsoever?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Yes, he expected you to beg based on his need for fuel and his expected reaction of you based on how he believes you ought to react given your circumstances.

  9. Lisa says:

    HG oh my god yes that’s it , this golden period has always thrown me off a bit but what you’ve said in that response about the lessers golden period him really just keeping the beast under wraps . That’s it !! That’s all he was doing just trying to hide the real him that’s all the golden period really was . Id say bronze period !! That’s when he tried to appear normal plus the victim stories . That was the golden period . But it came out around about week 5 when I still hadn’t had sex with him and I seen another side to him . Why oh why didn’t I walk away then !!! I only give him credit to being lesser to mid as I think he has more awareness of what he is than he admits to but not fully by any means . But I got a Hoover today after 3 and half months and it made me so happy . He wished me happy birthday after 3 and a half months break up . Before I knew you HG and all my reading this is how I would have interpreted that happy birthday message. That he does miss me he does care he does realise I matter to him he is thinking of me and I would have messaged back apologising for not acknowledging his birthday 2 weeks ago . I’ve never dealt with him as a narc . I haven’t even acknowledged it he doesn’t know if I’ve seen it or not due to the app he’s used .
    I think of you HG as my good doctor because I only deal with Dr Jekyll and will never deal with Mr Hyde .
    Thank you HG . Ignoring the wanker all day has made my birthday a very happy one !!
    You have puzzled me though by mentioning the 5 rules again in the context of your response to me and my narc. I thought your 5 rules were about this blog

    1. HG Tudor says:

      You are welcome.

      You expressed concern that the golden period in this arena might end. I was pointing out that the golden period for secondary and tertiary sources of fuel (which people in the blog fall into) usually lasts a long time. I was also pointing out that the five rules maintain this as well. My reference to the five rules was nothing to do with your situation and your narc. Happy Birthday. I will be around later for jelly and ice cream.

      1. Lisa says:

        HG you didn’t reply to my early question about dealing with this happy birthday Hoover ?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Patience Lisa, I am working my way through the messages. There are some pretty long ones awaiting moderation.

          1. Lisa says:

            Lol I bet Obama has less messages

  10. Alex Zangriles says:

    Are all fuel supplies the same grade or are some more premium? To elborate more do narcs continue to pick some fuel supplies over and over while discarding some and never returning? I guess the supplier plays a role as well.

    Poetic me, think we “overthinking” alike!

    1. HG Tudor says:

      No there are considerable differences in the fuel types. There is a fuel index. You need to read Fuel, it will be of considerable interest to you.

      1. nikitalondon says:

        I want to be pure fuel supply 😍😍

    2. Poetic_Me says:

      Hi, Alex. I have an ever questioning mind.

  11. Christine mcgowan says:

    I belong in the statfa category – so im free now – am i right HG?
    Being an empath it realy hurts- how crazy is that ?
    But hr jumped ftom golden to discard and was gone – after i found his secondry fuel Suppose i ignited his fury and exposed him

    1. HG Tudor says:

      You are never free in our minds Christine, but you have a period of time where he will leave you alone and this gives you an optimum opportunity, through using what I write about, to steal a march on your narcissist before the hovering starts. Yes it will hurt, it is meant to.
      Your analysis in your final sentence is most likely correct.

  12. 1jaded1 says:

    I’ve broken every rule, I’m sure. You probably seethe with rage when I chime in. Stay the fuck away? Easier said than done on both of our parts, no? We are together forever, remember? That guy in the pic looks like a douche. He must have serious essence to attract anyone.

    1. MF says:

      I’ve been poking him with a stick to study how he twitches from pretty much my first post. Except for the Five Rules I have no explanation for the lack of scratches on me so far.

      … Wait a minute… You kind of typed out my thoughts. I’m not alone on this? *pokes herself with the stick* *twitches*


      1. 1jaded1 says:

        I poke with questions. I want to know and heal…I also want HG to heal…how demanding I sound with I want. J1 stings or tries to. She doesn’t feel the need to heal bc she wasn’t hurt. I sound like an N…something help me. I remember a reference to Catherine Tramell character with relation to Dr. O in a comment made. Came straight out of the gate with that comment.

        No you are not alone…

    2. HG Tudor says:

      Are you referring to me or your narcissist?

      1. 1jaded1 says:

        The entire narcissistic relationship in general.. N and appliance, together forever. Statfa made me laugh. Regarding your 5 rules, yours. If they exist, I’ve broken every one. They may even change day to day.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Yes I thought you were referring to the entire narcissistic relationship, thanks for clarifying.

          How do you know you have broken them if you don’t know what they are? Of course I cannot tell you if you have or not. Nor can I tell you whether they remain constant.

      2. 1jaded1 says:

        You are welcome. I don’t know 100% but I’ve been rude and J1 even more so…so there’s that?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Rudeness is fuel.

      3. MF says:

        Would it matter?

        1. HG Tudor says:


      4. MF says:


        1. HG Tudor says:

          It would affect the basis of my answer if you were talking about me or someone else.

      5. 1jaded1 says:

        I was referring to the relationship in general..what would you have answered if N2 were the target? What would you have answered if you were the target?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Who is N2?

      6. 1jaded1 says:

        He isn’t you.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          No I had gathered that 1jaded.

      7. 1jaded1 says:

        I know…your answer deflected from my question.

    3. Poetic_Me says:

      I guarantee I have broke them Jaded1, as I think too much and always communicate those thoughts. I have a questioning mind and I always interrogate red flag moments when I see them. CN knew I knew things, so when I told him I knew, well, that was a no no, in N world.
      Lol, on guy in picture, Captain of the debate team, perhaps.

      1. HG Tudor says:

        The five rules are my rules not your rules. You cannot break the rules which apply to me.

        1. Poetic_Me says:

          Not those rules….I mean any rule an N has regarding an adornation..I am sure I broke those. Ie….N, looking at said appliance, with questioning look, is this thing working?

      2. 1jaded1 says:

        Lol…perhaps, but the expression on his face is more like the captain of the douche team…douchecaptain.

        1. Poetic_Me says:

          Ha ha 😀

  13. Superb HG…just… superb !!…but could I…may I please be allowed to be as forthcoming as yourself here on your forum…back to you…for you have inspired me to the point of having to…this is to you… from me…you are free to post it or not…you will not hurt my feelings I assure you if you do not…because it is massively long………….all em-paths…to the left…”NORMS”… to the middle…Narcissists…to the right…now… we may begin…are we sitting comfortably?……………all N’s…are…very sensitive creatures…similar to…and if I may be so bold yet again…I would like to suggest…are em-pathetic souls from the get go…I believe we all start out that way…even the norms…we…or my type go on …(because of our particular hurts and upbringing)…to become…super em-paths…the normal go on to be… normal, (meaning not too em-pathetic…not too Narcissistic)…sort of… in their end to be like… Goldilocks’s porridge…just right for them. While ours is too empathetic, … is a life from the get go that is …too hot…and similarly for the N’s…the bed… always too short. From the N’s…we learn how to become narcissistic…& how to protect ourselves from them…and our past at the same time…if we are listening… over time…and paying attention…over time…patterns emerge and we learn their ways… from them…but also we learn…what it meant to be our parent from a different perspective……the parent that would not allow us to be like them…that role of greed and righteousness was reserved for… THEM…the parent…and we find out why…because they our partner…(just like our parent)… our partner…the “N”…had to be in control…of us and everything in their life…we learn why…and…their ways …from them, what it was like inside the mind of our parent…from them… they show us how to be like them so that we will never be hurt…by them again…the parent or others…that is the lesson they hope we get…if… we adapt to their ways……like they learned how to… outwardly…by never letting anyone “see them sweat”…we learn how to be like them…and they learn about empathy from us…and seeing us sweat…which was something …they rarely saw…or saw it a lot and they liked it…cause they caused it and it made them feel noticed…worthy…appreciated…doted on…and they liked it and your readers will most likely never truly know what it genuinely means to be one…an “N” unless you tangle and e-mesh…with one…extremely long term…meaning over the 25 year mark and then some…and then yes…we em-paths… do become N as well…as we ultimately “become one”…in the partnership…just as they become us…through mirroring us…in the dance macabre as some like to refer to it as…we become both too…together…the inseparable…the true alpha and the omega…they…mirror us…to become…us…they leave part of themselves behind…the same place they did in the past (just like us)…but now they leave it with us…for safekeeping…much the same as we do with them…and they allow us…and we allow them to eventually become us…much the same as we become them… as to learn…how we became us in the first place…but we are not them…just like we are not capable of being them…so…we become on the outside…what they are on the inside…we get to be our parent…in the ways we were never allowed…when we become them…what they really are on the inside…we allow…& want them to be more like us at the same time…on the outside…they feign or I would much rather say… Learn from us…our empathy and our other ways…meaning…how we treat others…so they can learn from us how to become…what we became inside…they don’t know how…they were never allowed…that is what they are trying to desperately emulate…and hide from others…the same as we try to hide that we need others to be validated as well…and we together over time …both get a lesson on how we all got that way…if it doesn’t kill us all first…before we get the lessons we are really supposed to get …each of us… are supposed to get… not just us…from joining up in the first place with them…in other words…we eventually will reverse rolls …but only when when we have sufficiently been tormented to the point that we can no longer hold our own pain…along with theirs in order for only them to exist…while they become freer to move around…and fly like free souls…learning and emulating empathy…because we have freed them…we become grounded down…with the extra pain that they shed…to us…and we become extremely needy to the point of becoming narcissistic ourselves…like them because they teach us how… or… rob us so well of ourselves all over again…exactly like they were… too…& we can’t bear it…when they teach us too well…to be selfish and uncaring…and then …they get a double dose too…of how they became how they did…through us…they get knowledge into their parent…and how they got that way…again…but then their job…is only temporarily done…after they teach us this…they then need to live out the rest of their existence… this way…getting our empathy…that is usually one of the reasons…we are left…or leave…or get better…or die…because they don’t know…or can’t stop…or don’t ever stop…giving us their pain to hold or carry or be responsible for…so that our empathetic cries and learned ways to torment… by them…become too much to handle or live with…it just depends on you…your narc…and both of your cadres…as to who does what first…or last…to either hurt…or separate…after that in order to bring about the next phase…of growth…or death…or repetition…or healing…with each other…or others…or…not at all…if we can not help each other to heal…hurt people…just continue to hurt people…and we just don’t ever seem to be able to take away their hurt…for long…or our own…because we have to carry the results forever and for too long…for us both… and so do they because…they can’t or don’t want to fix what in their mind is not broken…they have what they need now…to survive & we can’t hold our own…and them…forever… or fix it forever for them…or truly become a true narcissist…like them in order to survive…because they…like our parents in the end…won’t let us…and we have no choice in the end to cut off our empathy…because it no longer exists for us…to be able to give to them or anyone else or even ourselves…because we have nothing else to give to anyone…anymore…we have been robbed of our empathy…the same as them…until we can step back and heal…to the point that our empathy returns…the lessers will kill you first…the midrange might… the greater…will stop short of that…because they know they need you…like they need no other…if you are their main source…if the transformation is allowed to go on to completion…we…become true narcissists insisting they take away our pain…just like they do to us…but we do it out loud..and they scream inside…then we go after them…seeking empathy…to end our suffering…but they don’t know how…they are only acting like us…they are not us…they emulate…not…are…and need it to go on forever in the same way…as it was in the beginning…in exchange…for the lesson…and the help they do give genuinely… they do give at times genuinely of themselves…the true cut off self… Both types…split off from our true “normal paths” of life…or… pushed away our own needs in different but similar ways …same as we do when younger… in order to survive…again…with help…we did not do this on our own…both illnesses are rooted in a need to perform in ways we don’t really want to…but have to…in order to get our needs met…in order to survive…part of us that was not trapped there in that childhood prison…went on to develop true skills, while the non adapted parts, as some would certainly call them in us too… can learn no other way to survive also… and… require another to give them to us…and we want it…when we want it…anything we want like that…like children…both of us…the parts of us that have never been able to ever…in a healthy way…be our own source of selves asking for help from only ourselves…to heal us. This was never a possibility…only through others…like us…do we find out what went wrong and how to heal…but…not with the norms…never an option…not empathetic enough or narcissistic enough to hold the keys to knowledge or true help…they can only show us normal…which is like another language…or a foreign concept…and so we both force others that were already wounded…to give it to us…what we can’t give ourselves…at first …unconsciously…then…after time knowingly…& we get all the answers laid before our eyes…but not ever really knowing exactly why…or what to do with this new found information …until then because both parties…are usually too hung up in their individual games of survival…& chaos…so that you both can’t really see…that you have already survived…and have all the answers you needed from each other…very early on…to your own questions…and theirs…from your past staring you in the face…because you just can’t …until you educate yourselves…and that is our dance…our lot in life…remember…some souls are not strong enough to ever…get the true lesson…that comes from this…& are also not lucky enough to find out why…they & their partners really do what they do & why…and own it…& get the lesson…and fix what is wrong…within their own self…even with as much help as you are HG for…the lessons we gave each other…we could have got from no other…we both…did favors for each other…we both gave each other…purpose…what we each individually do with these answers…is up to us individually in the end…but was come by…collectively…this is only ever a lesson…of survival…and how exactly we each became who we became…we are both mirrors into each others universes…and souls…the true answer to each others prayers… but unless like you HG and very few others…unless both types truly learn to understand why…and make steps to no longer set up the long run…for themselves and others…ensuring hurt and pain still ensue…neither one will ever truly heal…

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Thank you Elaine. In essence this underlines the mutual attraction that my kind and your kind have for one another.

    2. Indy says:

      Lovely, Elaine! Indeed, this is about balance and our soul’s journey. Each has its purpose and part to balance the other and help spark the journey of healing to be our more actualized selves. Thank you for putting it so beautifully.

  14. Poetic_Me says:

    The five rules of moderation, perhaps? the right to rewrite. The right to delete, the right to post, the right to hold in moderation, the right to alter.
    Is that close HG? I do notice he does not curse at anyone on the blog, so he must hold his rage and his temper this arena. He also posts comment that curse at him, so he must provide balance in what he posts from Readers. Rules of engagement/ ensnarement no doubt, remaining in cyber world. And not translate to real life. Maintenance of his blog persona/ mask, must be another one. To remove himself if it begins to slip.
    To shut down what he sees as dissenters, but not In a manner that would cause other readers to disengage and not continue to provide possible fuel flowing.
    That’s five there. Hmm, I have even more in My mind. HG, without saying which ones. Of course, am I close in any? As long as they work for you and your team of doctors and assist in your running this blog effectively and managing your Legacy. Then so be it. We all have that with we hold as code for who we are. Ours are called moral values, yours are rules. I am curious too, Lisa. MF what , say you?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      As already stated, I cannot say.

      1. Poetic_Me says:

        I know, I did not expect an answer. Just wanted to give you my thoughts. Thank you.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Well you did expect an answer because you asked if you were close in what you wrote, to what the rules were. I cannot disclose that either.

          1. Poetic_Me says:

            Seriously, I didn’t expect you to tell me what they are, I knew you wouldn’t. But, I wanted an answer, this is true. I did not expect one. No harm in asking, right? You know I always ask.

    2. MF says:

      I remember what curiosity did to the cat…

      1. Poetic_Me says:

        And a cat has nine lives lol

  15. Fool me 1 time says:

    A mix of 4 and 5 ! Smh

  16. Alex Zangriles says:

    I feel your pain and discards! All have been used on me at some point in this 20 year journey though hell that I have willing and naively taken (no more). Just have to sell “the” house in which he is trying to provoke negative fuel and still has power over me. Then I will be forever free from his grasp…I hope👊

  17. Indy says:


    Unspoken 5 rules, huh. I learn something new everyday here. Now this is getting a bit fun!🙊🙈🙉

    Hold up, does everyone here in this forum get a golden period? Feeling a bit cheated here (chuckles, playfully said)

    Enjoying getting to know folks here. Hope it’s OK if I hang a while, enjoy the vibe, listen to the stories of our scarily witty moderator while I sip a drink.


    1. HG Tudor says:

      You are most welcome Indy.

  18. Lisa says:

    MF , you’ve figured them out ???

    1. MF says:

      We’ll find out soon enough 🙂

  19. nikitalondon says:

    To read the goobye postings produce me sense of sadness… Wish this would not happen to anybody.. That everybody would find true love ❤️❤️..
    But you are realistic with your posts HG.. Excellent 😘

  20. Sharon says:

    I was given “The Vanishing” act; and you’re right, by doing so, he absolutely provided me with a clear run at recovery. I consider that to be a very thoughtful act on his part … LMAO, just kidding 🙂

    My question is, does it ever create concern (lack of a better word) for the Narcissist, even in the slightest, when they realize their supply hasn’t bothered to try contacting them at all? When their supply is just as okay with the bullshit fantasy being over with as the Narcissist is (temporarily, of course, for the Narc).

    1. HG Tudor says:

      It depends on what the fuel levels are. If you happen to spring into our mind and we think “X has not contacted me for some time” if we are feeling fuelled we will consider (alongwith other considerations) applying a hoover and this failure will be regarded as a criticism. This will cause us to look at drawing fuel from you by hovering you or taking it from elsewhere. Of course, you may not come into our sphere of influence and because we will be too concerned thinking about ourselves and other fuel appliances, we do not care about you.

  21. Lisa says:

    HG , hmmmm interesting the only one I can really relate to is the Half Answers . Although the difference is I have not stayed in contact with him or reached out to him or tried to stay friends all of these things have happened in the past and he has also done this after the Half Answer discard . My discards fit the wedge or golden wedge but we’ve always been in contact . This time not so . Also he never ends it he just starts talking about his struggles with commitment and I end it . I’m pretty easy to discard . But I have enabled tensing in contact so many times . The fact that I haven’t this time , do you think he knows that I am really finished with him now forever ?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      You may think that, he won’t accept that.

      1. Lisa says:

        HG by the way I keep reading about your 5 standards or something or 5 rules what are they ?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          The five rules.

          I cannot tell you them Lisa. I cannot tell anybody what they are.

    2. MF says:

      They’re not that hard to figure out you know 🙂

      1. Lisa says:

        HG’s 5 Rules
        I am GOD X 5 😬

        How do you manage to be such a monster and yet be so polite and patient with this group ?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Adherence to the rules.

          Why wouldn’t I be pleasant? You’re in the golden period.

          1. Lisa says:

            Oh my god HG that’s scary then if we’re in the golden period , we all know there’s only one place to go from there 😱
            I never actually had much of a golden period I was critising him pretty much from around about week 5 . Calling him out on inconsistent behaviour and questioning it and also dumping him quite regularly . God knows how we managed to still be off and on for 2 years . I could be wrong but I don’t think lessers to mids do much golden periods they are more like cave men !!!!

          2. HG Tudor says:

            Not really, as with many secondary and tertiary sources of fuel you remain in the golden period for a long time and furthermore the existence of the five rules affects this.
            The golden period with a lesser tends to be more of keeping the beast under wraps as opposed to out and out love bombing. There will be some but nowhere near the level of the Mid Range or Greater, it almost as much as the Lesser can do to keep the beast hidden until devaluation.

      2. MF says:

        Let me have a go.

        The first rule would be is that there is no talking about the rules. Oh… Whoops… Luckily for me it doesn’t specify repercussions ^.^
        The second rule would be something in the lines of being in charge here. It’s his site after all and he will do with it as he pleases. This includes – but is not limited to – the moderation of comments as he sees fit, writing articles on things he deems relevant etc.
        The third rule should revolve around self preserverence. This rule would try to guarantee anonymity as much as possible. Something in the lines of no real life meetings, no Skype calls, no phone calls etc.
        The fourth rule should be something to make sure this place remains the Arena it is today (I’d like to take the opportunity to compliment you on a job well done). So no eating your food, just playing with it. Gathering fuel is allowed, but it will remain civilized in order not to scare E’s away. Another aspect will be the interaction between posters here, making sure the environment stays healthy (no flaming other people, no swearing etc). Comments should preferably be constructive or supportive in nature, neutral at least. In summary this rule enforces a safe environment for E’s to post, discover, express themselves and learn.
        The fifth rule is about a form of personal integrity. The articles written should be open, direct and honest. The author made a deal with himself to open up and put a piece of his soul into words, knowing that without this, the Arena effect will be gone. This will also enforce his place as a Greater, help him sharpen his knives a little and gain power over other N’s indirectly.
        The sixth rule is there to mess with your head and to enforce rule number 2.

        Those are the five rules 🙂

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Thank you for your kind comments MF.
          I cannot comment further on your observations.

      3. MF says:

        I have a feeling I won’t be much longer ^.^

  22. Steeviann says:

    Hits home HG. From that moment on I stumble it seems.
    Thanks for the reality check……..again.

  23. Seeking Wisdom says:

    HG, is it possible that one of your kind would or could implement all of these discards on the same victim? I’m pretty sure I’ve had all but the last, and only because of specific circumstances (he’s married). Would you go from one to the next if the previous one did not work for you? I guess I’m pretty persistent. 😜

    1. HG Tudor says:

      It is conceivable that they could be applied on different occasions.

      1. Jacqueline says:

        So I’ve put up with his bs for18 years and if he’s so done only cuz I kept confronting him with his behavior n outsmarting him a little too often n he fears exposure then y in the heck won’t he divorce me?? I tell him to divorce me all the time but he said he was gonna remain married to me in order to make me suffer for the rest of my life. N since I can’t catch him cheating I have no grounds for divorce . Why do I still love him n have so much compassion n pity for how he came to b this way..

  24. Happening live right now…which will he choose? I really don’t give a fuck…I just want him gone. I attempted to escape 3 times and of course he could not accept that. So I have baited him into discard in hopes that he will just go. He has not said the words but he is so close. Any tips to push him over the edge? Fight fire with fire and burn the whole fucking thing to the ground is my mission….escape is my goal. What is that delightful smell? I haven’t sensed it in so very, very long….it is fucking freedom and it is nearly in my grasp!

    1. Indy says:

      Hi Liberty Gal,
      Do you mind if I ask, do you live together? Are you dependent on him for your housing? If not, how do the escapes fail? His hoovers? The strong addictive pull? Just wondering, because you are giving him the power to decide…..I wanna say, take the power girl!!!!!! 💪

    2. ann94063 says:

      Hi Liberty. I did the same with the attempts, and somehow always found myself hoovered. I finally realized that he wasn’t going to let me go unless it was his idea. So when my ex-narc triangulated me with another woman for the last time, I wrote him a letter with bullet points telling him the red flags I am seeing, told him what is and is not acceptable behavior to me, and that I will be enforcing my boundaries. He didn’t like that letter. He said it was “mean.” He got defensive by the criticism and he discarded me. Even though I did a little manipulating of my own to get the desired outcome, it was still painful when he did discard me. That was 2.5 years ago. He is still trying to hoover me, but I have maintained no contact. In the meantime, I am working on myself and gathering my strength, so if and when he does manage to speak to me live, I can calmly look him in the eye and say “Hey, you walked away from me. Now, stand by that decision.”

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