Skewed Fidelity

The question of fidelity often intrigues me. If one of your friends came to you and said that their other half has been unfaithful, in what form do you immediately think that the act of unfaithfulness has taken place? I will wager than in the vast majority of cases you will think that him or her has slept with someone else. I am perplexed by how people become so upset if the form of infidelity is the fact that someone has slept with someone else. It may be a one-off drunken occurrence and the name of the other party was not even known or most likely has now been forgotten. Certainly from my perspective an act of physical infidelity is meaningless – it has no resonance with me in terms of forming a bond with the other person. It is purely an act by which we draw them into our web or most likely for the purposes of drawing a reaction from you because we know, for some reason, you get most upset about the fact we engaged in physical contact with another person even though it may not be repeated and meant nothing to us. The act itself rarely generates any pleasure for us, it is the reactions that arise from it that are the aim. Similarly, if one spends time with another member of the opposite sex, that also seems to generate a reaction too. Why is that? You remark about having friends (some of whom are of the opposite sex) so why can we not do so and why must you become so agitated when we explain we are going to lunch with that person or attending a show with him or her? Is it perhaps the fact we are not spending the time with you since we are spending time with another? Is it not borne out of your jealousy and insecurity, rather than anything we have done that is deemed to be morally reprehensible? Now, I can comprehend that you feel distraught should your partner be sharing their hopes, fears and deepest secrets with someone else. I am aware from extensive studying of other people that an individual feels most betrayed when they know their partner has been engaging in soul-searching with another person, conveying their deepest feelings and heart felt concerns. Oddly enough, you need not be concerned about me doing that, even though I am spending time with someone else. I know from the things that you have said to me that the emotional connection you feel with someone trumps everything else. If you regard that emotional connection being shared between you and someone else or even diverted away from you to that other person, then quite a reaction indeed arises from you. Yet, do you not demonstrate hypocrisy in adopting this attitude? I know for a fact (since I have listened in on your conversations) that you talk about everything to your sister and two of your friends. Is that not sharing or diverting your emotional connection with others instead of me? In fact, you divulge all of the details in lengthy analytical discussions. I may spend time with other women but I tell you this, I do not go into the intricacies of how I feel. I do not discuss what might trouble me or what is gnawing at my mind. It is true. I am too busy charming them by showing off about my achievements, my promotion, my wealth and my urbane charm. I am engaging in telling them ultimately banal and ephemeral things about me in order to draw them closer to me to extract fuel from them. I am listening to their intimate details in order to use them against that person at a later date. I do not pour out the contents of my heart to this individual, I have no need to and indeed I am not wired this way. Thus, your irate reactions when you learn I have been for a coffee with a new neighbour are misplaced. It is I who has the basis for complaining about you spending two hours on the telephone to your friend poring over our relationship in detail. Interestingly, should you learn that I had been spotted kissing some random lady in a bar late at night in a transient and brief liaison you hit the roof.
If you analysed my behaviour you might actually regard it in a different light. Is spending time with a member of the opposite sex being unfaithful? We have an enjoyable time, laugh and joke, yet do not indulge in any physical interaction nor sharing of secrets. The physical liaisons are meaningless too save for the reaction we generate from gaining an admirer (and sometimes we are not ultimately bothered about that) and more usually about your massive emotional response to learning of our one night stand with person unnamed.
Now, I do not want you to change, heavens no. If you did then I would lose so much fuel by you not reacting to these alleged acts of infidelity but you may like to consider, having read my observations on our behaviour from my point of view, whether it really is the sin you consider it to be.

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86 thoughts on “Skewed Fidelity”

      1. So my lightbulg moment HG is my ex N is into martial arts. Throughout the entire time I’ve known him – he always talks about chi. Chi as energy…chi as life source. And how you get it and how it’s depleted. Chi = Fuel.!!! Omgosh = lightbulb moment for me.

        Thank you HG.!! I feel so knowledgeable and empowered reading your blog.!! 🙂

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  1. Well, this is very timely…so, what do you think of the Anthony Weiner saga? Is he one of you? Can you shed some light on what might be going on in his head and why he does what he does?

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      1. Yup, this is the sexting congressman. Apparently, he’s been caught a third time and his wife’s left him.

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      2. And now Child Protective Services is involved because he’s using his kid as a “chick magnet.” 😝

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  2. Does it work both ways? Can the IP do the same with other men?
    This is considered an open relationship.
    One night stand? What is this?

    Uh hmm, what was your name again?
    You are kidding, right?
    Nope.
    Dywane Krumblewoodie!

    How in the hell do you forget that one?

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  3. When your in love with someone you don’t sleep around PERIOD… Unless you have an open marriage, or relationship, and both people agree to other physical relationships. Saying I love you means more than just saying I do. There are strong emotions involved. Unlike a narcissist they only have their own agenda. That’s a singular statement. Me, Myself, and I. There is no We. What would be ideal is if you found another narcissist to have a relationship with. And it would be a game for both of you. However it’s the individuals you have affairs with who are at risk emotionally. Most people don’t like to be used and discarded. Your thought process is scary. But educational….

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  4. “The act itself rarely generates any pleasure for us”. Wow. I knew it. I have yet to meet one of your kind that has true passion. Sexual hunger may be the only thing you cannot fake.

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  5. Emotional infidelity would be painful. I think you hit it spot on. Soul searching (I don’t have one so don’t bother to search) feelings are meant to be shared with a spouse or SO. I will listen to anything without judgement…so that does probably make me a hypocrite.

    Regarding the physical affair, that thing would have to take a bleach bath for months before I’d touch it. Yuck.

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  6. infidelity as I said once starts when someone prefers spend time with other person more than intimate partner…. when they build stronger friendship than they do with the partner….wheb there is deeper connection between them… it’s my opinion…. even kiss is more hurtful than sex but that’s not my issue anymore..

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  7. Talking to friends, sharing with people of the other sex without an emotional connection combined with a sexual desire/ encounter is not infidelity.,… In my opinion

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    1. Id have to disagree on that one nikita.

      If you are having an emotional relationship with the desire to cheat on your partner, even if you don’t cheat sexually, then that is worse than having a one night stand where emotions are not involved.

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  8. Wikipedia states

    Infidelity (also referred to as cheating, adultery, or having an affair) is a violation of a couple’s assumed or stated contract regarding emotional and/or sexual exclusivity. Other scholars define infidelity as a violation according to the subjective feeling that one’s partner has violated a set of rules or relationship norms; this violation results in feelings of sexual jealousy and rivalry.

    What constitutes an act of infidelity is dependent upon the exclusivity expectations within the relationship. In marital relationships, exclusivity expectations are commonly assumed although they are not always met. When they are not met, research has found that psychological damage can occur, including feelings of rage and betrayal, lowering of sexual and personal confidence, and damage to self-image. Depending on the context, men and women can experience social consequences if their act of infidelity becomes public. The form and extent of these consequences are often dependent on the gender of the unfaithful person.

    So it will depend on the contract you have with the person.
    But we all understand what this would do to a IP. Again, it is the narc being the demon that he/she is.
    I am not a Narc but I have cheated, due to the fact I had become bored sexually with my partner, all of them. I am not sure if this would be the case now as I am much older and wiser. (never was caught unless I wanted to be caught)

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    1. Thanks Steeviann, I notice two paths there. The first is the contractual. Leaving aside the Narcissistic Contract which as you know now is a unilaterally imposed contract, ordinarily a contract must consist of offer and acceptance,supported by consideration, therefore both parties have input and both parties agree. I also notice reference to a subjective feeling. Accordingly, one might still regard someone as behaving unfaithfully even though that person does not regard it as such and therein the problems, or rather the fuel starts.

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  9. I am equally perplexed by these all too commonly held beliefs as well.

    But of course, while I expect to be able to do as I please without question or comment, I cannot say those entangled with me are able to do as they please. No, no, no. The rules are the rules are the rules and they never apply to me, but they certainly do apply to everyone else.

    I cannot equate physical with emotional and while I know so many people do, I am incapable of understanding. I do not equate sex with love or any other emotion. For me, it is basic, carnal, lust/desire and that`s about it.

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    1. most unfortunate for you b&t, I can have it both ways. With love or with Lust and sometimes both. Hell of a ride!

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      1. It would be unfortunate for me if I sought love and did not receive it. But since love isn`t what interests me (it`s not even on my Top 20), I fail to see how it`s unfortunate for me.

        I`ve read many comments here about how “love” (albeit “loving” the wrong person) got an awful lot of you hurt almost beyond repair. Not my idea of a good time.

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      2. So right B&T!! I’m done with all of it! Pour out your heart and soul! For what reason?? To be ignored? Or because there is always something or someone more important then you that has to be taken care of!! No more! I’m done with it!! There is one thing about me that is different then some of the rest on here! When I’m done I’m done!!! There is nothing they can say or do to get me back!!! Fuck them all!!

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      3. See, this is why I like you Fool Me! Good for you for adopting the “fuck ’em all” attitude!

        If you feel you are deserving of more, fight for it. Show them what you deserve and refuse to accept anything less.

        Then watch the way people change.

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      4. Yes, this is true and at times I wish I could be emotionless. But when you are through the painful ones, at least for me, I feel a little bit different. Transcending so to speak. You can not understand as you do not know love.
        I rescind my words of “most unfortunate of you” as it is not my place to say this.
        You do have highs and lows, they are just opposite of mine. Please accept my apology and I humbly will eat my words.

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      5. That’s exactly it. I know that others have loved and do love me. I have seen and felt the intensity that “love” brings forth in others.

        I do not understand it. I do not want it. There are many other things that are far more important to me.

        I understand that you may feel badly for people like HG and I. You feel we are missing out. But we don’t feel we are. Again, it’s all about perspective.

        While I appreciate your humble apology, there is no need. You just need to keep in mind that the perspective you offer, compared to my own, is very different. So that when you tell me it is unfortunate for me, it simply doesn’t register because in my mind, it is most unfortunate for you.

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      6. As I said I misspoke in saying “unfortunate for you”. I have the ability to feel or not feel. I have been on both sides of the coin. I was well on my way to being a member of your club and along the way I changed. By chance perhaps. By evolving perhaps. I don’t question it anymore. Chimp or Bonobo My apology was tongue in cheek, not to be taken seriously. Once again I misspoke, I own my missteps in actions and words. Therein lays the difference of me then and me now. Rock on with your bad self B&T, I CAN have enough love for both of us. It is a choice for me. Maybe this is what I was trying to convey. So did we kiss and make-up? >

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  10. I’m now able to understand how a narcissist views infidelity. Clearly not a sin but a must/entitlement.
    For the victim it’s devastation & of course all their fault!

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  11. “I know for a fact (since I have listened in on your conversations) that you talk about everything to your sister and two of your friends. Is that not sharing or diverting your emotional connection with others instead of me? In fact, you divulge all of the details in lengthy analytical discussions.”

    As a female I cannot understand how women can disclose private things (e.g. their sexual life in detail, trouble in the relationship, etc.) to other people (family and friends) instead of talking about it with their husbands/boyfriends. And what is even worse, they also seem to divulge their frustrations with their partner on social networks. Not all of us are the same.

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    1. I understand your point EB but we of course welcome it because it all amounts to fuel, obsessing and causing confusion. I would be interested to know to what extent other readers agree/disagree with EB’s observation about the disclosure of private information to other people rather than discussing it with the intimate partner? I daresay everybody would be against sharing it on social media!?

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      1. I will tell wtf I want about myself to whomever I want. Take the damn stick out of your arse. My favorite subject is myself. What I write here is not on my private social media, nor do I complain about the N in my life on my private social media. But my closest friends know I am a very bad girl.
        Sounds to me someone has some issues. Maybe a bit frigid.
        .

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      2. What is EB doing on a social media blog then? Voyeurism? We are here to learn and express ourselves and release the pain that we have endured at the hands of a narcissist.
        Think how boring it would be here if we did not share.
        I need to stop writing as I would have a few choice words for the one who is stuffed up. I bet her poo doesn’t stink either. OH WAIT! She doesn’t do that!

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    2. EB,
      Yep. Go to person you have a problem with first. Then if not resolved take two people with you and go back to person to resolve. If still nothing, Leave it. This is right out of the mediation handbook. Never share on social media. Information is power. U cannot take back what is said on social media. You might as well have gone outside and shouted it from the rooftops. This includes text messages, email, blog comments. It is out there forever once you hit send.
      The other thought I had was that you are really getting a skewed idea anyway of what the problem is, because of it being one sided. You have to have all parties information so you can make an informed decision. Or provide counsel. That is why we have discovery. Sometimes people just want someone to listen. Or maybe they need validation. Either way, never get it or give it through social media.
      All of that coming from me on a bIog! It is bad enough that I vent on here. At least nobody knows me. But I know I can trust nobody. I am sure that if I am not careful then I will get screwed over eventually. Especially if you have been warned ahead of time. It’s the victims fault because they volunteered right HG?

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      1. @Persephone
        When I wrote “social media” I meant FB, Twitter and similar sites using -real- names. FB contacts know who we are and who we are talking about. IMO, I do not agree with disclosing private information about my marriage to others. When it comes to conflicts between two people, I believe they should be dealt between the two parties first. If the other party in conflict has a Cluster B personality disorder, it will be of no use discussing anything with them as it ends in circular conversations and they will blame us, no matter what. When dealing with emotional/financial or some other kind of abuse, harassment and adult bullying, etc. I look for help somewhere else, including online sites where we can protect our real identity and at the same time we are protecting the other party’s identity too. This is neither smearing nor character assassination as nobody knows who we are talking about. I do not see anything wrong that we are writing here looking for answers or validation without using our real names. Looking for help and smearing others are two different things. This is my opinion.

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      2. EB….
        Uh ok. I agreed with your statements in your first comments. I didn’t say anything about character assassination or smearing someone…confused. ????

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    3. Well as a woman I can tell you that when we get together (the ladies) we love to talk SEX. No hangups, just love the conversations. I will give you an example of a conversation. I was in a hurry this morning and I left my toy on the bed and the housekeeper found it when she was making the bed. We all found this humorous. Now should she only share this with her husband? How flipping boring is this?
      GF are for this, to lend a shoulder and hold your hand. Talking to a man, even if it is your husband, is talking to a different species. It is a fact they do not process like a female. So don’t judge or try to understand why women do it. If you don’t want to talk to others, this is great for you. But don’t think that you have a moral high ground. It is not your job to understand why we decide to share. Oh! I must say I bet your hair curls reading these posts.

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      1. Not angry at all. it felt more that you sat in judgement. Reading and not hearing, we are left to our own minds to interpret the connotations. This was how I felt when I read it. Just like you felt I was angry. I was more disgusted. If you feel you should not share your stuff then so be it. I have had some of my best conversations with BFF’s about life and living. You might try it. Yes, there are some things that should only be shared with your partner, I agree. But most on this blog are here for a reason. We share here and only here. It is our outlet. I agree that somethings on FB should not go out to the cyber world, but who cares what people put there. It is like TV, turn the channel, don’t read about their woes. Live and let live. Yes, you are entitled to your opinion, and by all means do give it. But maybe in a kinder way. Can we now kiss and make up? >

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      2. @Steeviann

        Thank you for your explanation. My comments were about a part of HG’s article that was included in quotation marks at the beginning of my post. If my partner (or anybody) had a problem with me, I would not like it if they would talk behind my back to other people first instead of talking to me and handling conflict with me first. Besides, I do not like to go out and tell other people about certain private things. IMO, it is none of their business and I do not ask people about certain things either. IMO, boundaries are very important. Like you, I have had good conversations with friends and I find them ok but there are things that should only be shared with our partner. So I think we are not far away from each other.

        When I wrote “social media”, I did not mean this blog. Sorry, I should have written “social networks like FB and Twitter with people using their real names”. As far as I know, we are not using our real names here in this blog and we are not smearing people using their real names and destroying their reputation. Although I am not on FB/T, I am afraid of what is written about me by people using their real names because other people reading know they are talking about me. It is not actually the gossiping which bothers me but the **consequences** of smear campaigns and character assassination which includes adult bullying and harassing. I live in a village and people with Cluster B personality disorders are making my life miserable to the point that I do not feel safe where I live and it is not possible for me and my partner to move.
        Social networks like FB can be dangerous tools when used by narcissists to destroy a target.
        HG’s work is like The Holy Grail for me as he is giving us targets the answers we have not had before.

        Hugs and kisses!

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      1. My ex did it a week ago and he says it’s changed him for the better and he did it to try and save our marriage, I’m not convinced

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      1. ah your talking about yagé … i saw this when I was in Amazonas ..and they told me people throw out their guts..
        so its like voluntArily Getting food poison..
        ly brother took . he had to run the toilet.. but there is no toilett in the middle of the rainforest 😳😳😳

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      2. Oh Steeviann, I can guarantee if you were to trip with me, you’d trip all right. And fall….and fall….and fall…..and there’d be no one to catch you before you hit the ground.

        Especially if I was on hallucinogens. LOL!

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      3. Is this a challenge? I love a challenge. It is on. I am one brutal MF’er, in a princess dress. >

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    1. Seen this drug in documentary. Should do it in a controlled environment. Found interesting about mdma and the work that is being done with PTSD and anxiety. They spoke about using hallucinogenics to cope with trauma as they are nonaddictive. What is up with it Helen…this group seems like they are on it? Lol

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    2. I know a guy who has done this. He said most in his group got very sick. I will just stick to the Timothy Leary method of exploring the other limits.

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  12. If someone is In A relationship and keeps another person of the opposite sex a secret, ie, hides phone, text, email messages, lies about who they are with or where they went to see that person, then they are lying because they are cheating. Sneaking away from a Partner to send texts or call the other person , deceiving ones partner telling them there is no one else, making them feel paranoid and untrusting for what their intuition tells them to be true, but you deny it still, because you are cheating. Sex is cheating( even phone sex or video chat sex) hiding information about the other person is cheating, sharing emotional details that you do not share with your partner is cheating. Cheaters are the only ones who do not see it as cheating..period.
    Having friends or work colleagues of the opposite sex that your partner knows about and/or has met whom you socialize with on occasion is not unaccountable behaviour, it only becomes that way, when you feel the need to hide, lie or deny anything relating to that other person.

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    1. I was having an emotional affair and I honestly didn’t know it. My husband kept asking and and I kept replying no because I didn’t see it. But I kept drawing new lines in the sand and before I knew it I was in a full blown extra marital affair with my best friend. I should have known better when I found the need to start hiding my phone and lying as much as I did. I never thought I would be that person to have an affair. Thankfully my husband was the one to rescue me out of that disaster. Everybody has different ideas about infidelity. On the other side my ex said she would not be concerned about anything I did as long as no one touched me below the belt. But she was entitled to do what she pleased. She told me I would never have to know what she did because her other woman would let her. She will always want other women. That will never change.

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      1. SW,
        Thanks for saying that. Starts with Emotional Affair. I worked in a field predominantly of men. They would have lunch with me, talk to me but when they would start to say things about their spouse….I became lunch Nazi, NO Lunch for You!

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      2. Well it sounds like she took advantage of issues you confided to her Of your marriage and used it for herself, when you were emotionally vulnerable. That is what Narcissists do. They swoop in when we are emotionally low and they attach themselves to our fuel. Yes. When someone feel s the need to hide or not disclose certain things that is the indication to self that something has changed.
        I hope things are better in your marriage now. Snow White and thankfully you have escaped that N, it is shame she was your best friend. But. She was only best for looking out for own interests and not yours. Wishing you a speedy healing from all this.

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  13. I wish I wouldn’t have been so naive and had had the strength to get out when I knew there were red flags popping up. The emotional part was very gradual. It was a year before anything physical started but the damage was already too much and at that point I was completely brainwashed. It takes two, so I own up to the fact that it was also my fault. We all make mistakes😓

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    1. No, I have not partaken in the ayahuasca. But I would be tempted if I could get it. I have done mushrooms, I have some but they might be old now as they have sat in my closet for 1.5 years. I prefer Lysergic acid diethylamide from a reliable source. It is not often but I do enjoy it still.
      I do not promote doing illegal drugs per se but I will occasionally take a trip. I have seen some things in my day……..pink chickens. I also believe this is why I am so strong minded. I have tested the limits. It is the hippy in me. I am not a seasoned drinker, never was and never will be.

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    2. BUT I STILL DO NOT BELIEVE IN SCRIPTURE. Nice story, just like Pippi Longstocking, but I believe in her. And Unicorns and Santa Clause. Easter Bunny and a tooth fairy and MY very own personal Fairy Godmother. She gets my LSD. 😉

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  14. Poetic me
    Thank you for the well wishes!!! I appreciate it. I now recognize that she used all the information that she gathered from me for her own use. I trusted her with everything. She saw what she wanted from the beginning and wasn’t going to stop. I was very close to losing everything. I believe in a couple of years she would have had me totally dependent on her and under her complete control. I miss the friendship every day but I know it was unhealthy from the beginning. She didn’t recognize boundaries and obviously I didn’t keep them up. Something I’m learning about myself. I have had NC since May and I’m working on my marriage. It is going to be a long road. I don’t know if I will ever be the same person. This is the only place that I have found others who truly understand what it feels like. The rest have no idea.

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    1. That is their goal and agenda to infiltrate and consume us and take over all facets of self and life and they after they have sufficiently destroyed us they move on. It is so good you left before that ever happened to you and you can use this blog as a stepping stone to gather needed Information and advice to help you heal further to leave all things Narcisisitic far behind you. It helps when you feel you are being heard and understood by others. I have almost much taken In all the Information I can and will be leaving here soon. It does no one any good to remain attached to narcissim when trying to heal themselves , it just keeps us bound to that abuse and addiction In a different person or venue. I am pleased Snow White, you feel validated here. Keep learning and understanding.

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      1. Poetic me, how long have you used this blog? There are great people here with lots of good advice and I need as much as I can get. Thank you.

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      2. Hi Snow White
        I was on the blog after M N gave me another silent treatment , which I didn’t know it was that then. HGs blog mysteriously showed up in my fb newsfeed. I avoided it m but it kept showing up, so I clicked it and read some, then I went and bought several of his books of read, Fuel, Manipulated and Evil. Then I came on blog to seek answers after realising D may be a Narcissist. And I was currently in a silent treatment. I was only On the blog on month when he hoovered me , not very long, I didn’t have all the information I needed to know, so I accepted the Hoover to find out from him. He denied it all and claimed same reasons for being away. That he loved me, only me, that I was being paranoid and silly. I tried to understand and accept him, but he refused to accept what he is. The lies continued and the cheating, I found out more things, which he denied. Despite my proof. So I instigated a situation to end relationship, have Been no contact..for two months now..the amount of time I have been back on the blog. Trying to get answers and assist in my own healing. So, no it hasn’t been long, three months in total. It still boggles my mind that this man, did not love me, based on the relationship and leaving him, when I still in fact loved him. I have avoided two hoovers, have had no contact at all after I decided to leave and out my self and my worth first.
        Yes. Snow White. Seek as much help and information as you can so you can move on fully informed and aware to the happy healthy life you deserve to have.
        We all will get there and will look back appreciatively on o e Narcissist and thank HG for the Wisdom and information he gave to us all.

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      3. PM, It hurts because we accept them as they are and love them and during all of that all of their manipulation continues. Realizing it was always going to be an unhealthy relationship was hard for me. Good job not caving in to the hoovers. We will definitely get there!!! There is sooo much to learn.

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      4. Yes, Snow White that is so true, through all his lies, rages. Manipulation, silences a I still loved him and forgave him and tried. I was even willing to accept his Narcisssim, as I would any other disorder. But, he couldn’t do it. Show me anything that let me in, stop the lies, the manipulations. The blame and punishment. When I left him, I still loved him. It was horrible having to leave someone I was still in love with knowing the fours we were tighter w d he told me he loved me and everything aurrounding that love was false. I did leave him, as you left her. We are starting again. But. Feelings. Thoughts. Memories are harder to release. He will never be. Part of my life again. My wish would be that it ended differntly. But the fact, is it has to end. We can come of no good in such relationships. We end up being destroyed by them. I am glad you left when you did and you are free and seeking knowledge and understanding for yourself. I think as time goes by, he will move on too, as will I, as will she and you. We will thrive again and mend.

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  15. For me getting physical with someone is so rare, so special, so vulnerable / as I have some big body shame and hatred. I can easily open up to people emotionally and even if /when the narc hurts me deeply in lashing out at my trigger topics, I know I have the strength to stand up again. But the hurt of opening up my body and it meant nothing – it destroys me…

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