The Narcissistic Truths – No.49


132 thoughts on “The Narcissistic Truths – No.49

  1. Bloody Elemental, what an interesting family. I’m sure you would have the full spectrum of human nature at your Christmas table!!

    We all have a theory yes. My narc brother would also declare being hard done by as the reason… however I never did see empathy from him and although I believe he was abused, I think he was born like that as my other family members.

  2. DFA says:

    NA thank you, B_E makes some very valid points to which fascinates me to yet not to the degree HG does. I love the bluntness thou.
    Yet it’s like banging your head against a wall. With all the information available today ignorance is an excuse. And one that gets a very silent stare from me when it’s used. I just can’t pull a malevolent glare, just not in me.
    Learning from your mistakes and stop blameshifing, giving an excuse to why your life is in a disasterous state. Change the choices you make. Stop giving reasons and excuses for wrong behavior, and choosing to stay.
    I agree with you on actually taking what HG is providing and putting it into effect, change will come, slowly yet this problem didn’t happen overnight and will be a fight as to they have no intentions of releasing control now that they have acquired it.

  3. DFA says:

    Don’t mean to jump in yet B_E your right, your kind far surpasses us in numbers, not surprising on who is running things. What kills me is when people start crying this is not fair, we didn’t ask for this. Yes you did.
    They are watching what the right hand is doing and not paying attention to the left. It really is all in front of them, selective sight.
    This didn’t happen overnight, if you look back the pattern is there slowly building.
    I could go so far as to say
    Oh I had such a bad childhood my children won’t suffer the same fate, then over compasate and they teach their children nothing. Manipulation 101 starts as a toddler, I cry and throw a temper tantrum and mommy/daddy will give in to my wishes. Sadly thou this is also where some parents go overboard and a different abuse starts. And then let’s not forget mimicking we learn from those around us.
    And now who are they blaming for the things going on, acting all surprised. Yelling I am a victim.
    Children are victims, once you start making choices you are no longer a victim, it’s a choice.

    Your kind are firmly entrenched. Yet this leads me to

    Triad you made a very good point about self love. How can we love your kind if we don’t even love ourselves, hell I sit here and wonder if anyone actually knows what love is. This bull that is portrayed in movies, books and television. It’s spoon fed to us, condintioning us from infancy to become prey to your kind.

    Love is brutal truth. It makes you uncomfortable as hell, lies wrap you up in this illusion that is all warm and cozy.
    People love the lie. We lie to ourselves and make excuses for this or that all to keep things comfortable.

    It all comes down to the choices we make.

    HG is ah hell there isn’t even a word that can discribe him. Saying he is the best of the best is like saying vanilla, and we all know he is far from that.

    Sorry about the rant

    1. NarcAngel says:

      Dont be sorry DFA. What you said has been said in smaller soundbites all over the blog, just not altogether like that. I agree with your assessment, and those who say it is a negative view need only look at the fact that despite all they think they are rectifying by indulging their children, they’re pumping out little Narcs at an alarming rate. Instead of overcompensating and insulating their children they need to be educating and arming them with information about the real world. Not painting a Disneyesque existence like the Narcs paint for Empaths. That is just repeating the cycle. Respect to B_E and Triad for saying it from their view. Now instead of Empaths getting their hackles up and saying how dare they, perhaps they might hear those words from a different messeger with a slightly different delivery. I wont hold my breath but I hope so only for the sake of the children who have no say or voice. If Empaths are really grateful to HG they would be better to honor him by stopping the cycle so there are no more little lost HGs. Although do still tell him how fabulous he is- he still deserves, enjoys, and indeed needs that.

      1. Love says:

        I agree that we have a large number of narcissists in the world. People with empathic traits are a minority. However, I do not believe the recipe for creating a narcissistic child is by cuddling and over indulging them. First, that is a 1st world privilege, and the rest of the world doesn’t even have the means to ‘spoil their kids rotten’.
        The majority of people cannot shelter their children from the real world, so kids are exposed early on.
        Second, I have yet to meet a narcissist who did not have one or both parents as narcissists.
        One narc I knew had 3 sons: 2 norms, 1 narc. And his mother was queen narc. Genetics play a big role in this.
        I understand and appreciate the point that many have made here: educate and arm yourself so you don’t become a victim again. I am definitely a proponent of dusting yourself off, and walking taller and stronger.
        That being said, I take objection with creating a larger than life image of narcissists. Like beware of the boogie monster and run far and fast. This puts fear into people. Narcissists are still human… Nothing that special about them and no, you will not be hypnotized at first glance. They can only tear you down as much as you let them. If you are aware of who you’re dealing with, then its a personal choice whether you want to mingle with them or not.

        1. NarcAngel says:

          Hi LOVE. I’m glad to see this side of you! I long suspected there were teeth to go with those moony eyes you make at HG.

          I am not advocating that cuddling your children or the odd indulgence will create larger than life Boogiemen to flee from lol, and yes I am referring to first world as Im sure the third world is less concerned with Narc/Empath coupling while foraging for a root vegetable to feed a family of eight. Im talking about the pervasive sense of entitlement they gain when we shield them from tough subjects like those of mental illnesses and disorders and what they will encounter out in the world and instead try to give them all the things that we think will make them happy and successful. Do you know many young adults who do not EXPECT use of a vehicle (to be expected to take a bus borders on child abuse in their minds), money in their pockets, the latest phone despite their inability to pay for it? They expect their first place to have the standard of living it took their parents years to acheive. We do all this to make ourselves feel better that we have provided more and better than our parents but does it have to be the extreme?. Just as we have Narcs and Empaths at extreme ends does our parenting now have to be all or nothing. There is middle ground but we dont seem to seek it. I dont know that Empaths are the minority but I do know Narcissists are at the forefront and move the big things forward so at the very least our children will have to learn to identify and deal with them in order to be successful ( and we all want that), much less survive them. Yes as you suggest: walk tall and strong. Do not run. Do not ALLOW yourself to be treated badly because you bet your ass you have to have consented for them to continue. Your last sentence says it all: ” If you’re aware of who you’re dealing with…….” I am hoping only that we will make them more AWARE instead of focusing on shows like JUST SAY YES TO THE DRESS.

      2. Love says:

        Hi NA, lol yes I have fangs to go along with my batting lashes. Like I said before, I can easily play different roles. This is from years of experience with narcs. I sense quickly what they need, and transform myself immediately into that role. None of my narcs have ever met my authentic self. Nor would they ever want to.
        Btw, I like to be treated bad. It is essential in keeping me devoted. Yet, they always end up disappointing me. They can never play their part without cracking. My Gods eventually turn mortal and wither in my eyes.

        As for the douche bag kids now a days. Yes, I agree, they are too entitled and clueless. But do they represent the majority in America? The poverty rate in the US is 15%. Middle class is 51%. Therefore, the percentage that can even afford a car for their silly kid is slim. So little Billy can have big Escalade dreams but he’ll be stuck driving his parents’ hooptie. That builds character lol.

    2. I agree with you. We do watch the wrong hands, because of the “unbelievable” element.

      It is beyond imagination and we don’t therefore predict it. Such a complex and strangely-expressed disorder.

      Now I look back to my mother’s machinations I accepted out of survival. The reality is always in your body. Love from another person should never include mandatory terror, shame, guilt, doubt, depression.

      Our body tells us the truth.

      Untangling is arduous because of the mirroring – who was who? I’m even beginning to think this is an impossible task in terms of detachment from the parents.

      To help me I’m watching a lot of old videos and photos and telling the right story. The reason I didn’t see it was the pressure the narc put in me, which distorted my sense of responsibility and absolved them of blame.

      Some triggers for speaking to them are loneliness and boredom, but I’ve learned my own company is better than worrying how I’ll be harmed.

      My matrinarc was so damn elaborate, I’m thinking it’s going to take a long time for correct perspective to begin (for the first time really). That’s why I don’t blame adult victims, because the sky has always been purple for us, so it’s an entirely new way of existing. You are correct, it is all about choice.

      1. I’d add that aside from bodily sensations, empathy should ask – what result should there be? How should things look?

        A narc will justify anything to explain away their lack. When (as for instance I’m in a dance company and performing badly from terror tactics) the narc will say I have a confidence problem, when he has just been abusive. They will usually adopt a “if you can’t stand the heat, get out of the kitchen” stance instead of adopt a duty of care. The sensation is hopelessness as there isn’t anyone to care.

  4. Violet says:

    HG what is your advice on narc bosses? Everywhere I’ve worked, they go after me because of the red light you mention, I also have strong values that makes me unpredictable in my tolerance of them.
    I am not sure whether to try again in my field as I know they are dominated by them or to change fields, however I believe they are everywhere anyway. Am I doomed? Is there a way around it?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      It is evident that your field is one which attracts many of our kind. The key is to spot them (which you seem able to do) and then deploy counter techniques which will ensure that working with our kind is at least manageable if it is the case that you must do so. I am working on a book about Work and the Narcissist which goes into much greater detail on this.

      1. Thank you. I believe I did counter them well but after a time couldn’t manage the self erosion from lack of teamwork. They also live chatting to me and joking around and unfortunately that’s what I love too.

  5. Can you imagine the uselessness of the United Nations with narcs running it?!
    It had always been my dream to work there and now I’m guided away from the veiled python pit :/

    I made the silly mistake of contacting a local victims of crime support service for counselling and spoke to two more in there. There really is nowhere safe.

  6. Until your writing I didn’t have these words to identify it .. thank you v much. I still am confused about my parents though. My mother would exhibit signs of cerebral and highly observant (maybe greater!) but definitely poor self control and a victim who stayed home eating and reading. My father kept a lot to himself and seemed to be more intelligent and self-controlled than her. But would rage if ever his authority was called into question. I’m not sure if he is mid range or greater.

    Given the circumstances, I’m unsure why these two narcs started a family. I know they all know what each other is. It was explained to me growing up as “_ (insert a name) doesn’t like us for no good reason”. Do you think it’s likely my mother has a vague awareness of being different but doesn’t know what my father is? I’m baffled.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      I would think your concluding observation likely. Also keep an eye out for the Narc on Narc articles in the pipeline.

  7. As mentioned previously I do not know anything but.
    I always observed with guilt for my contempt of their silly dynamics and after a long period in isolation believed it to be love. Or companionship…
    The lesser/mid range is incredibly common.. female lesser usually.

  8. Thank you – this makes sense. In general I believe this is their only way given most do not put up with the behaviour.
    It may or may not be of interest that I know at least 20 couples who work in this dynamic.
    It appeals to the lesser female because she can act like a domestic heroine while greater/mid ranger hunter goes out to fight although he is a failure so this brings humour and delight to the motherly lesser who gets a sense of power.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Interesting AVs, sounds like you fell into the viper’s nest with such extensive knowledge of couples who operate in the manner described.

  9. Violet says:

    ps – narcissitic truths no. – ?
    There is no such thing as time, there is only my needs.

    This is a big one, for those raised in N families.. because time mapping as such doesn’t exist. You realise that dates, years, anniversaries do not count and adapt to the psyche of narc ego rather than time itself. As they do not grow in character, you also will not grow in their presence.

  10. Violet says:

    Btw, why does my victim/greater go for only lesser narcs? Laziness?
    I include slash because I have seen that all greaters act as victims at times.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Indeed all narcissists will act as victims at times but not necessarily be from the Victim Cadre.
      I am assuming you mean why does he go after empaths and lesser narcs, not lesser narcs exclusively. He chooses Lessers because they do not know what he is, they have a low control threshold and therefore it easy to ignite their fury and draw fuel from them.

  11. MLA - Clarece says:

    H.G., at what point did you realize you do not love or that your version at best can be described as strong infatuation and affection? Was it not until you were in therapy and became more aware of love also being that deepening contentment with a partner that happens over time? I know you have said when you did get married it came at a time that your façade and professional life would also benefit from being in a stable marriage. But at that time for you, did you also think you were in love with her more than others before her?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      The awareness of what I see as love and what you see as love and how they are actually different came about through general discussion with my IPs over time (although I never let them know that I viewed it differently) and the discussions using this information in therapy sealed the deal for me.

  12. Dawn says:

    NarcAngel and braveheart….
    I laughed! Thanks guys! Hey the guys in the gym check out my ass now thanks to the narc diet! Haha! Xx

    1. BraveHeart says:

      That’s our girl … keep laughing, you’ll gradually start feeling better! πŸ˜πŸ’•

  13. noah80 says:

    Dear Dawn we are all victims of a Narc. We are all alive although we are many injury in our souls…and maybe you can see this in our body (I lost 12 kg…but I was already slim). I still have often nightmares and anxiety and sadness, but lesser that before and belive me I would not come back in that hell. The man I was madly in love does not exist. He has the same cosistency as a character of a book or a film: he doesn’t exist. We can get better, belive me, we can take back our lives but it depends only on us. We are stronger than we think. We must decide to face what we fear: the loss. But if the man that you fear to lose doesn’t exist, what you are osing is just an illusion, he isn’t real. Before you’ll be convincent and before you will be free. Remember that the only way to detach gradually mentally and emotionally is no contact. It is not easy, I know, I live it every day and I think about him a lot but I’m resisting and gradually, even reading this blog and other books and articles, I can be more conscious and determined.
    You deserve to be loved and above all to love yourself and not allow to anyone to make you suffer what you suffered.

    1. Dawn says:

      I’ve lost 60lbs in 5 months due to the hurt. πŸ˜” Thanks for your message xx

      1. NarcAngel says:

        Oh geez Dawn-now you’ve done it. You know we are all wanting to look better in our bikinis and Narcs are always wanting to take credit for every damned thing! Watch now for the pop-up ads here advertising the NARC DIET. Guaranteed weight loss. Ok that was only in hopes of making you SMILE if only for a second. Never lose your sense of humour- it can get you through a lot. Be well.

        1. BraveHeart says:

          Narc Diet, hmmm … I lost 15 pounds, does that count? Haha, I agree with Narc Angel, always try to find the funny in the small things, eventually it will lead to bigger laughter πŸ™‚

      2. Love says:

        Lolol NarcAngel it really works! Listen to the testimonial.
        “Hi, my name is Delores, and I wanted to get my beach body back for the summer. So I went on a narc diet. He fed me nothing but bullsht*t for 6 months. Now look at me πŸ‘™”
        Only $6.66 per minute.

      3. noah80 says:

        Ahahah Narc Diet is the best! You feel better inside and outside! Seeing is believing. I start it and it works (although I had the worst hoover on 8th October).
        Anyway sense of humor is a good defense against the trials.

  14. And let us all (Darkness Falls Again, noah80, Elaine Baylis-Slade, purpleribbonhealing, BraveHeart, Dawn) keep in mind that we are no longer victims, we are survivors!

    1. BraveHeart says:

      Absolutely, Marcella!!! πŸ™‚ I’ve had to fight to get to that place (survivor mode) a few times in my life, but since discovering HG’s blogs/books, I can guarantee I will forever be a survivor now. πŸ™‚

  15. Dawn, I’m sorry too. You will survive this, I promise. It will take time, but you will. Like Darkness Falls Again said, you are not alone. You are not the first one to suffer from this kind of abuse and certainly will not be the last.
    I do relate to your pain. I’m sure all of us do.
    Purpleribbonhealing is right. Read this blog, read HG’s books. I’ve read so many articles and books about it, but this is so far the most enlightening blog I’ve ever had access to.
    Sometimes, I hurts to read some articles HG writes because they make me relive every abuse I’ve been exposed to. As painful as the truth is, knowing what happened and protecting yourself is the best alternative to ensure your healing process.
    Be patient and nice to yourself. Remember who you really are and try and work hard to rescue everything your ex has tried to destroy.
    This shall pass too.
    Much love and respect.

    1. Dawn says:

      Thank you so much. I really appreciate your kindness xx

  16. Darkness Falls Again says:

    Dawn I am so sorry, a picture can say so much.
    From the ashes a beauty will come that you have never seen before. A strength you never knew you possessed.
    Sadly thou you must walk through this, but know you are not alone.
    There are many here that offer words of wisdom, kindness and most of all understanding.
    HG thou will provided the truth of the why, at times it can be very triggering and painful. Truth thou was never meant to be comfortable at all times.

    1. Dawn says:

      Thank you. It means a lot being supported x

  17. noah80 says:

    If you suffer because of him, it is also better because you procure fuel to him.

    1. noah80 says:

      But I continuous to not uderstand if it is possible that a narcissist is always so wonderful with his wife (he has really care of her like a jewel) and shows his cruelty only with lovers, completely splitting the two lives. How do a narcissist keep for 16 years a perfect mask without weakening it with those which are the other unique aspects of the narcissist?

      1. HG Tudor says:

        How do you know for sure that he always treats the wife well (unless of course it is you) as much will go on without you knowing about it.

      2. noah80 says:

        What I know comes from what the friends we have in common have told me. Between these mutual friends just one knows that I have been his mistress, and he told me about some other women before me who were also treated badly). But all talk about them as a matched pair and above him like a doormat that as soon as she snaps his fingers he runs. They have earned among their friends the nickname “disney couple”… that makes me laugh. But it is true that none of us has the opportunity to see what happens when they are alone and how he conducts himself without an audience to observe.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          I understand Noah80, of course this is all a façade he has created and I suspect behind closed doors the reality will be no Disney fairy tale.

  18. Dawn, it’s barely believable and they have so much to answer for. Sometimes I feel that appropriate action would be that every woman experiencing this would band together and swap their numbers, emails and send them on a merry goose-chase then callously and unceremoniously dump each and every one of them after they made complete fools of themselves. That is illegal but by golly they turn good people into seeking revenge and they win again as I once said they would make mother Teresa fly off the handle! They stop at nothing to get what they want and they get to triangulate and use props to further grind salt into an open wound caused by them in the first place. Everything written by HG is everything I have known inside out without the tags that HG attributes to each manipulative disordered and compulsive way in how they cover all their bases. That indicates to me that they live in constant rehearsal mode each and every moment of their days. They remind mem of the evil people that dump an animal at the pound with no thought to the animals fear, anxiety nor it’s howling voice when they simply turn on their heels knowing the animal will be put to death even though it has life in it. They are those people especially when they go to another pound and pick a new puppy that will suffer the same fate. The word narcissistic personality disorder is such a polite term for those that all but murder and enjoy torturing humans. For those that do murder completely, we simply use the term sociopath, psychopath and yet they are lecherous, irresponsible, addicts of cruel intent and intent can be demonstrated and should therefore be right up there with any other that intentionally plots to extinguish the lives of others. Fair enough is it not for Isis to be considered the worst of the evil and for our society to recognise the threat as real and not perceived. Every government department developing super-technological advances in monitoring including google coming on board to sus out the key words used in searches for those recruiting and being recruited by Isis- but the narcissists are highly dangerous and a real threat and hide under a little banner with a few words to define them unless you have been with one and know the depth of their evil they continue to re-victimise and are out to take life. I am really sorry and so much on this site and others including graphic definitions is triggering and very traumatising. Victims of crime associations will consider your case and my suggestion is that we must lift the veil on this brutal slaughter that leaves some people damaged extensively for the rest of their natural life.

    1. BraveHeart says:

      Is it illegal to creat a website (database) with names and pics of these people (just as they have for sex offenders) so a search can be done on them? At least if something like that were created, the narcs wouldn’t know who posted their info because they’ve, more than likely, victimized too many to know for sure. It’s a sad shame that they continually get away with all that they do with no repercussions whatsoever. I’m not one who believes in revenge because I don’t want to bring harm to myself/anyone else, or lower myself to a Narc level, but it would definitely be sweet if we could all ban together and help protect others from being victimized by these predators.

      1. HG Tudor says:

        The difficulty you would have is that if you created a database and included details of people on the basis that he or she is a narcissist, then there would likely be legal action. The Lessers and Mid-Rangers don’t know what they are, therefore they would see being labelled this way as defamatory and make a complaint, perhaps even launch legal action. The Greaters would commence legal action to draw more fuel, even though they recognise what they are. The person operating the database would have to prove that the label of narcissist was true and of course that individual is unlikely to be able to point to a diagnosis (because a. they are unlikely to have the expertise and b. the narcissist will not have submitted for a diagnosis) and a professional diagnosis would be required in order to defend an action for defamation. You would be better served by increasing awareness generally.

      2. NarcAngel says:

        Braveheart while I admire your want to take action and to shield others, that is not a viable action due to the legal issues that would result. The better option would be to continue to educate yourself and others where you can as that helps with making better and more informed decisions. The information here from HG and the participants, paired with his books is really all you need, but of course everyone has to be in the right frame of mind to apply it to themselves and their situation. Indeed I find it baffling that with all the information and experiences from participants on here that there are still many that think: well yes but my situation is different or unique. It appears they read and listen but dont hear it as it applies to them and go on thinking they can change the abuse by altering their own behaviour. They cannot, unless their behaviour is to remove themselves and go no contact. There is no strength or dignity in remaining a victim. No amount of love can change a Narcissist- you may as well be pouring your love into a rock. So until then keep reading and participating and one day hopefully you will stand up and say ENOUGH.

      3. BraveHeart says:

        SD, take HG’s advice and warnings. You will never find any greater information from anyone other than him. He tells you what you need to hear. He tells you exactly who you are and what you can expect to experience from him and his kind. As for me (Super Empath – learned that from HG :), I am the first one who wants to help others when I’m needed from “my” perspective. However, after experiencing what I did with the last Narc in my life, and discovering HG’s blog, I know damn fucking (sorry – Super Empath) well that there is no way I can help the ex-narc in my life or any others like him. Please just continue educating yourself with HG’s blogs and books (on Amazon), and I promise you, it does get easier. That’s not to say you won’t still have deep thoughts and feelings of wanting to help, but you’ll at least be able to understand why it’s not in your best interest to do so. My eyes were opened wide, when HG responded to one of my very first comments on his blog. He told me, “she’s not your responsibility”. He told me that because I was feeling guilty and wondering and worrying about the wife of the married man I had an affair with. So, SD, I second HG’s words – “You owe her no obligation” – TAKE CARE OF YOU!

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Wise words BH.

      4. BraveHeart says:

        HG, that’s exactly why you’re my hero! I asked the question because I sincerely didn’t know if it was legal to do so or not; not that I would have EVER put one together myself because 1) I’m not computer savvy, and 2) I’m 52, I don’t have the energy to keep up with that crap. Anyway, my point is, THANK YOU, for always giving us the truth. I must admit that was one of the qualities I admired in my ex-MN, I could ask him just about anything and he’d always have an admirable answer.

        Thanks again, HG. You are definitely the best! πŸ™‚

        1. HG Tudor says:

          You are welcome BH.

      5. BraveHeart says:

        NarcAngel, I completely agree with everything you said and thank you! That’s why I share HG’s website everywhere I can, without appearing to be too “crazy” at the same time :). I just think about all the lessons I’ve been taught through his blogs and books alone, I realize when reading the “Comments” section that it’s not just valuable information for me and my situation, it’s valuable information for Super Empaths, Empaths, and Co-dependents everywhere. It comes down to good vs. evil, if you want my truth. I’m in the US and it scares the hell out of me when I think about who’s going to run my country, and I only truly know the reasons why it should be scary for everyone. Anyway, NarcAngel, thanks again for your response πŸ™‚

      6. Braveheart- I agree with every word and as I have been involved with a N that is without the shadow of doubt a sex offender, I find it disordered that he were able to continue to bring harm and ruin lives of others, including minors. Databases will be in force in the future and there is nothing unethical about it. When society encapsulates narcissistic personality disorder, sociopathy and psychopathy not to mention that narcissists have a whole host of other disorders most often that could be classified as any one of many disorders we are not dealing with Peter Pan or Cinderella, yet deal with Cinderella Complex and oppositional defiance, adhd, histrionics, borderline pd, pathological liars, extortionists, opportunistic traits, gender issues and most obviously out of control, control issues! As the narcissist thrives on reductionistic methods and their model how about the sugarcoated title that hosts almost every mental health disorder be treated as such. Autoimmune disease for example is not treated by one speciality, rheumatology. Depending on what system of the body it wages war on is treated by many different physicians of varying specialties.

    2. Dawn says:

      Thank you so much for your kindness x

    3. bloody_elemental says:

      The governments, corporations, industries, media, even law enforcement, will not jump on board to help the cause Purple.


      Because we run them all.

      Additionally, empaths have a role to play in that they need to learn from their experiences. I see some people on this blog (not everyone, only some) saying they were devastated by our kind and need help moving on, but then these same people are blindly throwing themselves at HG.

      Of course, I cannot blame them, he is the Ultimate. But it begs the question – if we are so bloody awful, why do so many keep coming back for more?

      1. bloody_elemental says:

        If only it were all as simple as a mildly amusing meme.

      2. Triad says:

        B_E, At some level, they must hate themselves. It has to be. Either way, they’re responsible. If they can’t love themselves first, then they really couldn’t “love” us anyway. They can only serve us. It’s just a question of how well they serve us.

        I agree HG is the ultimate! Far and away the best site anywhere on the Internet about narcissists. That other guy what’s his name Sam Valkin, is a self-hating, pathetic narcissist who’s given up all his power, only to bleed his newfound self-loathing all over the pages of the Internet. Yikh. Exact opposite of HG. And given all the comments here, what HG has to say is eminently more valuable emotionally to our prey –I mean victims– whoops.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Thank you Triad, always interesting to have additional opinions from our side of the fence.

      3. bloody_elemental says:

        Well said, Triad.

        It has to be said that part of the reason they cannot stay away and keep coming back for more is because, despite everything, we are incredibly difficult to keep away from.

        I think what everyone has to remember is that there are rules in place in this forum. Outside this place, all bets would be off.

      4. I agree with law enforcement and all that you mention wrt to people in high places. I agree with what you have stated. Just because it is does not mean it has to be. Change is coming. Mark my words, least when we expect it.

        1. bloody_elemental says:


          The world is run by our kind and as a result, either excuses are made for our actions and accepted by the mainstream (through brainwashing) or our actions and behaviours are glossed over and attributed to YOUR ultimate failure as a human being (not being good enough/smart enough/attractive enough as HG so brilliantly pointed out in his post yesterday).

          When we have so many rooting for us, pulling the in our favour, celebrating and rewarding our achievements and accomplishments, and aiding and abetting in the brainwashing and self-esteem destroying necessary to further our machinations, it is clear that not much is going to change any time soon.

          I always anticipate and expect, Purple. Nothing happens when I least expect it because I do not allow it to.

          1. I just wrote on the not allowing it part, because of insecurity of losing your control on the anticipated scenarios juggled to selectively use to maintain the control. You cannot control your time of death but by suicide for example.

        2. NarcAngel says:

          Yes PRH change is coming but not in the way you think. Society is pumping out Narcs faster than ever before. You cant escape them-only arm yourself. The meek shall NOT inherit the Earth I’m afraid.

      5. Love says:

        Well gosh darn it, I just popped some popcorn, readying myself for an epic boxing match between B_E and Purple Ribbon. Purp, don’t back down, you can take her. Go team purple! I’m wearing your colors and cheering from the sidelines.

      6. bloody_elemental says:

        What NarcAngel said above is absolutely true. I have been doing a lot of research lately and numerous studies and observations point out that society INDEED is churning out narcissists at what many would consider to be an alarming rate.

        According to Dr. Lisa Firestone, PH.D, “Much has been written about the rise of narcissism amongst millennials, the generation born in the 1980s and 1990s, a generation controversially dubbed “Generation Me” by Professor Jean M. Twenge in 2007. In her most recent work, The Narcissistic Epidemic: Living in the Age of Entitlement, Twenge (with W. Keith Campbell) explains: “In data from 37,000 college students, narcissistic personality traits rose just as fast as obesity from the 1980s to the present.” The comparison to obesity suggests that narcissism is another epidemic in America.”

        She goes on to state that, “Perhaps more troubling, a handful of new studies comparing traits and life goals of young people in high school and college today with those of Gen-Xers and baby boomers at the same age, show an increase in extrinsic values rather than intrinsic values. Millennials are more likely to value money, image and fame over community, affiliation and self-acceptance.”

        I am simply stating what is true and obvious.

        And what NarcAngel said about it being an empath’s job to arm themselves is also true. I understand many have suffered because of people like us, but here you have a forum to learn, grow and arm yourself with the knowledge to spot people like us and, if possible, not get ensnared and destroyed again.

        I see many, many people here learning and growing and arming themselves and even someone like me can admit to being impressed by that.

        But, I also see people like you, Love, who are enamoured with our kind and will just keep coming back for more. You said you have had experience with our kind and have been hurt by our kind, and yet just the other day you seemed willing to pay HG to get him to try and “break” you.

        For every person who arms themselves and musters up the strength to escape/stay away from our kind altogether, there are people like you who will always come back for more.

        It is a vicious circle and we are in the middle getting soaked with fuel and moving through a society that, knowingly or not, nurtures our creation; fosters our growth; facilitates our machinations and provides an limitless supply of opportunity for advancement.

        1. MLA - Clarece says:

          Great comments! I’m going to look up that reading material this weekend.
          “Generation Me” sums it up perfectly.

          1. bloody_elemental says:

            Hello lovely Clarece.

            I am part of that generation – surprise. πŸ™‚

          2. HG Tudor says:

            Me too.

          3. bloody_elemental says:

            You are only 22 after all, right HG? πŸ˜‰

          4. HG Tudor says:

            Indeed I am dear BE, I am so pleased you have remembered.

          5. bloody_elemental says:

            I remember everything.

            Your estimated age ranges between 22 (which is what you have said a few times here now) and somewhere in your 50s depending on who is doing the guessing.

            I made a guess a long time ago and you said “at last, some common sense.”

          6. HG Tudor says:

            Anybody who suggests I am in my 50s needs shooting.

          7. bloody_elemental says:

            Twas not I, but I know you recall the post in which the guesses came fast and furious.

            One of my favourite lines to use:

            “Anyone who (insert anything someone might do that is ludicrous) should be shot in the face at close range.”

          8. HG Tudor says:

            Oh I know you didn’t suggest it.

          9. bloody_elemental says:

            I would never.

          10. NarcAngel says:

            Quite right. Say it with total conviction or not at all lol.

          11. HG Tudor says:

            I feel ya NA!

          12. MLA - Clarece says:

            49 and still fine?πŸ˜‰

          13. HG Tudor says:

            To the cellar, now!

          14. MLA - Clarece says:

            Ha. Ha. Ha.
            I bypassed the Naughty Step this time…

          15. HG Tudor says:

            That’s what you think. Down you go.

          16. MLA - Clarece says:

            Can’t keep me down there forever HG…it’ll get so quiet & boring…lol

          17. NarcAngel says:

            Haha. All witness the steadfast conviction and sense of humour in not just one but two Narcs.

          18. MLA - Clarece says:


          19. MLA - Clarece says:

            Not surprised…but cracking up at how you said that. Generation X here but despite that, I think our best traits would rub off on each other and we’d still have a blast!!

          20. bloody_elemental says:

            I agree wholeheartedly Clarece.

          21. NarcAngel says:

            So then….. when exactly is this girls night out there Spider and Fly?

          22. bloody_elemental says:

            I do not view Clarece as a fly.

            We have developed a mutual understanding and acceptance of one another after a rather rocky start here on the blog.

            I enjoy Clarece’s feistiness, her sense of humour and her intelligent observations.

            I imagine a girls night out would involve drinks, hopefully dancing because I adore dancing, and Clarece trying to show me the error of my ways in that gentle, thought-provoking way she does.

          23. NarcAngel says:

            Who said Clarece was the fly?

          24. MLA - Clarece says:

            Haha. I’m thinking more along the lines of Thelma & Louise!

          25. MLA - Clarece says:

            Ahhhh, there would be no showing error B.E., rather me soaking up all you have to teach like a sponge…between jello shots (jk)

          26. Bloody Elemental says:

            I am not sure what I could teach you, Clarece. You would not be a student in the sense that you want to learn to become like me.

            It is clear to me though, that you do have a thirst for knowledge, an inquisitive mind and a curiosity that is matched only by a young child (that is a compliment, not a criticism).

            It is delightful and thus, I would very much enjoy answering all your questions in between jello shots. πŸ™‚

          27. MLA - Clarece says:

            I just like striving to be the best version of myself I can be and part of that is surrounding myself with people I find interesting and have a lot of inner strength.

          28. Bloody Elemental says:

            You truly are a unique and interesting person, Clarece.

            Interacting with you makes me smile.

      7. Love says:

        Lol you poor thing B_E, an innocent narc, a product of your environment, getting ‘soaked’ by fuel from people like me who will never learn. I’m not here crying woe is me. Go back and read my comment. I said it would be an interesting challenge to see if Mr. Tudor could break me. Frankly, none of your kind has been able to…. And I know you’ll state greaters are greater than the rest and they can break me simply with their magical glare, but I will believe it when I see it. Till then πŸ’‹

        1. NarcAngel says:

          Oh no you di’ int! Love, lol.

        2. bloody_elemental says:

          I do not remember crying “woe is me” either, Love, which is why your “poor thing” comment is misplaced and lacks sense.

          I go by what I read and you have stated that you go into mourning when a Narc dumps you.

          Simple math, really.

          Narc dumps you + equating it with death = you are broken.

        3. bloody_elemental says:

          The fact that you would describe our glare as magical, tells me you have never be in the presence of a Greater.

          The fact that you do not think HG could break you amuses me. Now that would be an event worth making popcorn for.

      8. Love says:

        Oh and in regards to narcs being pumped out at an alarming rate. I disagree. Our population is growing as a whole and narcisissism has always been a large percentage of it. The narcissistic traits are absolutely essential during war. Last I checked, human kind has been at war since the dawn of its existence.
        Lol NarcAngel πŸ‘Ό

        1. bloody_elemental says:

          You can disagree if you like, but you are disagreeing with fact, statistics and science more than you are disagreeing with me.

          Studies have shown that things like social media and reality television shows (I am thinking Kardashians) have made people, especially the younger generation, more narcissistic over time.

          As for narcissism during war time…..

          Robert McNamara, US Secretary of State from 1961 to 1968, credits empathy as being a strategic weapon of the Cold War.

          Not saying narcissism did not play a role during war, of course it does, but so does empathy.

        2. NarcAngel says:

          LOVE, you seriously don’t think we’re raising more narcissists? Have you BEEN outside lately or are you locked away in the cellar of Tudor Towers?

      9. Love says:

        B_E, if you had emotions, you would understand that mourning does not equate to broken. Mourning is a release of sadness and also healing.

        1. bloody_elemental says:

          I cannot argue with you there, Love.

          So then, because of your observation that I do not have emotions, you can clearly understand why it is that I would regard mourning as being broken.

      10. Love says:

        Go back before the cold war. Humankind has seen the ravages of war for a few thousand years now. Slavery, genocides, and massacres were not at the hands of empaths.
        I will not credit the Kardashians for the growth of narcissism. In my opinion, it is hereditary. How can science prove something it has just begun to understand? Did they take a count of people with NPD one hundred years ago as a baseline to compare to now?

      11. Love says:

        My definition of broken:
        One who is devastated, destroyed, shattered… brought to their knees and unable to stand again.
        One whose very existence is dependent on their perpetrator.
        One who cannot imagine living another day without them.

      12. Bloody Elemental says:

        Love, I did not and would never credit the Kardashians with anything.

        Oh, other than proving you can become a famous, society-shaping millionaire simply by getting pounded by your boyfriend on a tape that gets strategically leaked to all the right media. There is that.

        You are entitled to your opinion, but it is not necessarily true that all narcissism is hereditary. Plenty of research has been done to suggest sociopathy is nurture, while psychopathy is nature. It`s not set in stone and there can be deviations for sure, but I have read a great deal about this topic and I have to say, I tend to agree based on the research that exists.

        Not only that, but I AM one and I know how I came to be this way and why the end result is what it is. Some of it was hereditary, yes. There are sociopaths and even psychopaths (all highly functional, none of them serial killers I might add) all through my family. But I cannot believe I was “born” this way because, if it is hereditary, as you suggest, how is it my sisters (3 of them) turned out to be empaths, and my brothers (3 of them) and myself turned out to be narcissistic sociopaths?

        Out of the 7 of us, four are narc-socio (one brother is a diagnosed psychopath), and 3 are full-blown Million Megaton Empaths.

        As for war, genocide, murder, rape, and various other atrocities not being committed by empaths, that is a bold statement and suggests that empaths are not capable of such things. I disagree wholeheartedly because I have known empaths who are capable of great malignancy when pushed to that point.

        Even you, Love. Your tone has changed considerably with me since you first started interacting with me and I know where it comes from. You are not malignant toward me, but you are not the all nice and lovey-dovey any longer. πŸ™‚

        I have read, with great interest, author Paul Bloom’s case against empathy and I find myself agreeing with much of what he writes. Bloom reveals empathy to be one of the leading motivators of inequality and immorality in society. Far from helping us to improve the lives of others, he suggests that empathy is a capricious and irrational emotion that appeals to our narrow prejudices. It muddles our judgment and, ironically, often leads to cruelty. Bloom says people are at their best when they are smart enough not to rely on it, but to draw instead upon a more distanced compassion.

        Bloom has actually gone so far as to suggest that empathy fuels those wars, injustices and atrocities you are so quick to blame on my kind.

        Just some food for thought, if you can stomach it.

      13. Love says:

        Thank you B_E. I respect your opinion, and we can agree to disagree. You and I did not start off the best of pals. You initially rubbed me the wrong way. It was not until I joked about the king and queen of darkness that you warmed up to me. Yes, my tone has changed because I’m tired of continuously hearing how ‘grandiose’ your kind is and how my kind needs to run, hide, take cover…. At the end of the day, you are still human as am I. It is hard for me to keep drinking your cool-aid. I do not believe your kind is high, mighty, or indestructible. (Believe me, I wish more than anyone that you were. As I’ve said repeatly, I NEED someone to revere). I also do not believe empaths are weak quivering flowers. Yes some may even be capable of committing atrocities. However, your comments confirm the fact that your kind cannot and will not take accountability on anything. So let’s put this to bed and blame everything on the empaths… Damn those wretched souls!!!
        Oh wait… your very existence is dependent on us.

        1. Dear HG, what do you recommend to deal with stares, ridicule and humiliation from narcissists when expressing one-self? Be it presenting or performing etc. this has been the most poisonous as it is real (from them) as in they truly hate and see me as inferior where I no longer want to continue as my joy of sharing and vulnerability are mistreated and disrespected and I feel awful.

        2. Bloody Elemental says:

          As I stated, it is more than just my opinion, it is fact-based science.

          But why trust science when you can make up your own hypotheses based on opinion which are clearly more accurate than those based on data and statistics. :/

          You drink the Kool-Aid depending on who is holding the cup out for you. You do not want to drink MY Kool-Aid even though it is the same flavour as HG`s.

          Then again, I am sure HG could give you a cup of horse piss and you would drink it just because he told you to. And believe me when I say, I understand exactly what that is.

          In one breath you blame my kind for all the evils of the world and the next you say you are tired of being told to be careful, take cover, run away. If you choose to run toward evil, sweet Love, then you have no one to blame for the outcome but yourself. And we are all too willing to make your dreams (or are they nightmares….) a reality.

          I rub you the wrong way because I am female and, although I have adapted to interact with people in a respectful and constructive fashion here, I speak honestly and openly about myself and my views. That being said, I am largely courteous with most people here.

          It should be clear we will not take accountability for anything since HG has hammered that point home numerous times in this very space. Though it is flattering that you say my comments confirm this fact for you.

          As for your last sentence, if you only understood the full breadth and depth of my existence and what exactly it depends upon, I do not think you would be so smug.

      14. Love says:

        This was our first encounter B_E:
        I’ve had no issues with the other female narcs on this site … So no, its not your gender.
        Yes, I can blame you for the evils of the world without crediting you with grandiosity and super powers.
        All that aside, I do think you are a very intelligent young woman and I applaud you for continuously educating yourself and being self aware. I am appreciative you are on this forum.

        1. NarcAngel says:

          LOVE and B_E

          I can see and appreciate the strength in both of you so I read posts from both of you with interest and feel better informed. I believe that is the point of this forum, so thank you both for contributing. You know, from the outside looking in you don’t appear as polar as you may think yourselves to be. Both strong, self-assured, opinionated women with different perspectives who have had entirely different journeys but ended up here together much to the delight of the rest of us. Again, thank you.

          1. BraveHeart says:

            I completely agree with you, NarcAngel.

        2. Bloody Elemental says:

          Oh yes Love, you most definitely CAN do and say those things, I am just trying to point out it is contradictory and lacking sense, that is all.

          And my point is that you blame us for those evils all while adoring and admiring and throwing yourself at HG and stating, openly, you want to be ensnared by someone as great as HG (though I do not think there is anyone who can ever hold a candle to HG).

          On the one hand, you want, crave and need someone like HG, but on the other, you accuse our kind of being responsible for the ills of the world.

          I rubbed you the wrong way because I am not capable of or willing to experience something the way you do, when you know exactly why I would respond in such a manner.


          Thank you for the compliments. I am appreciative of my presence here as well.

      15. Love says:

        Thank you NarcAngel for the kind words. I am honored that you take the time to read my comments. I find you very witty, bold, and so smart and sassy!

  19. Dawn says:

    That image screams volumes as to my state and also to the truth of the words of the narcissist.

    1. BraveHeart says:

      Dawn, I know how deep, dark and clouded your pain is, we all do; and there is no place out there that will help you through the misery you’re enduring than this site you’re on right now. HG’s blog has been my ONLY saving Grace after being discarded nine months ago. It’s still not always easy, but because of him, I’m at least above ground and living again. Please stay with us and let all of us help you find your way through the darkness and help lift the fog around you so you can begin to see and understand more clearly again. So you can begin to live again! Keep climbing Sister and whatever you do, don’t look back. If you do, you’ll only be weakened further and you sincerely need all the strength you can muster to get out of the misery your Narc has placed you in. That is not love!

      Dawn, I truly believe you have been graced too by finding this site and I know if you continue reading and learning from HG, and his commenters, you’ll eventually find the love within yourself that was stolen from you. You’ll eventually find life is worth living again. β˜ΊοΈπŸ’•

      1. Dawn says:

        Thank you so very much for your kind reply. It means an awful lot to feel like I have true understanding. Xx

  20. SD says:

    Dating/friends with benefits with a female narc 25yo for approx 2yrs. She cycles through the stages with me and others and has all the classic traits associated. She picks up new people every few months and discards them really quickly but wants to keep hold of me, she has no empathy, no realisation what she is doing is wrong. She plays the victim or the siren and is constantly seeking attention/fuel. It’s starting to accelerate and the behaviour is getting really bad and I’m concerned for her welfare. How can I tell her in the best way possible that she is a narcissist and may need help

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Hello SD. There is no point telling her that she is a narcissist. If she is a Lesser or a Mid-Range Narcissist she has no insight and therefore will only respond as per the article No! You Are the Narcissist and look to draw fuel from you. If she is a Greater, she will know it but will not admit it. You owe her no obligation to get her to seek help, despite your empathic nature suggesting you should, and instead you should go no contact and focus on building your defences and keeping her hoovers at bay.

      1. BraveHeart says:

        SD, take HG’s advice and warnings. You will never find any greater information from anyone other than him. He tells you what you need to hear. He tells you exactly who you are and what you can expect to experience from him and his kind. As for me (Super Empath – learned that from HG :), I am the first one who wants to help others when I’m needed from “my” perspective. However, after experiencing what I did with the last Narc in my life, and discovering HG’s blog, I know damn fucking (sorry – Super Empath) well that there is no way I can help the ex-narc in my life or any others like him. Please just continue educating yourself with HG’s blogs and books (on Amazon), and I promise you, it does get easier. That’s not to say you won’t still have deep thoughts and feelings of wanting to help, but you’ll at least be able to understand why it’s not in your best interest to do so. My eyes were opened wide, when HG responded to one of my very first comments on his blog. He told me, “she’s not your responsibility”. He told me that because I was feeling guilty and wondering and worrying about the wife of the married man I had an affair with. So, SD, I second HG’s words – “You owe her no obligation” – TAKE CARE OF YOU!

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Wise words BH.

    2. Love says:

      SD, I’ve known a whole range of narcs (except greater) and I can tell you they always land on their feet. Even the lessers. Yes, their rage and poor impulse control can get them into trouble, but by 25 they’ve figured out how to make it work for themselves. They know for whom to turn it on high or reduce it down to low.
      If this femme fatale is a greater, then you have absolutely nothing to worry about. She’s got it all under her control.

  21. NarcAngel says:

    Well that’s a given, but speaking of which……what about yours? Is it beyond your comprehension to have appointed a Power of Attorney in the case that you are incapacitated in some way as the rest of us do? Does your mind not allow that scenario or your paranoia prevent anyone from having that kind of possible power over you? I can guess the answer but I mean really, I hope it never comes to that but you may find you need someone on hand to oh say…….change the pencil firmly attached to your forehead so you can continue to bonk away on your keyboard. Never can be too prepared.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      That made me laugh you cheeky rascal NA. As if I would need a pencil attached to my forehead, I would operate the keyboard through telekinesis as you well know! I do not contemplate the necessity for a Power of Attorney for precisely the reasons you advance. I do not regard incapacitation as something that will befall me and I am not handing power to anybody else.

      1. BraveHeart says:

        Great, GREAT, question, Narc Angel – and – VERY, very interesting, HG – very interesting.

        Appointed Power of Attorney – sounds like a great next book, HG πŸ™‚

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Very funny BH, it would be a single page with the word NO on it.

        2. NarcAngel says:

          (Bow and curtsy)

      2. BraveHeart says:

        LMAO!!! πŸ™‚

      3. Love says:

        You even have telekinetic powers??? You never cease to amaze me!!

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