To Have and To Hold
We marry. Sometimes we keep dangling the carrot of matrimony for the purposes of future-faking and keeping a primary source interested and working hard to keep our favour. Other times it happens quickly in that whirlwind of the narcissistic seduction for the purposes of ensuring that you are bound to us as tightly and quickly as possible so we have the comfort and satisfaction that you, as our wonderful new primary source, are firmly embedded and attached to us. A swift engagement with the wedding following hard on the heels. It is customary move of our kind to enter into a marriage. We give the appearance of being utterly devoted to you, smitten and with our love bombing and repeated protestations of love and desire it is little wonder that the victim readily says “yes” and has the engagement ring slipped on her finger and the planning for the wedding itself happens minutes later. Marriage is important to the narcissist. Not the actual institution, although we will make a great show of emphasising just how important it is, what it means to us and how we could not wait to get married. All good material for ensnaring the victim and maintaining the façade.
When that day comes, what goes through the mind of the narcissist when he or she is stood before the altar, in a registry office or atop a cliff overlooking the sea in a civil ceremony? What is the narcissist thinking about as the priest or registrar conducts the ceremony? What thoughts percolate through the mind of our kind with the guests all stood behind us, staring in rapt attention and admiration, smiles plastered across faces and the occasional tear trickling from the eye of the emotional onlooker? What are we considering as the hymns are sung, the readings are read and the service proceeds? I shall endeavour to tell you, from the perspective of a male narcissist by reference to a traditional ceremony. Bride and groom are stood side by side, excited smiles exchanged and eventually the vows are reached.
“I HG Tudor, take you Victoria Tim, to be my lawfully wedded wife.”
I chose her. I chose her above all of the others. She looks amazing but then so she should, for me. I knew she would look so beautiful and all these people gathered here will be looking at her and thinking how beautiful she looks and how lucky I am to have married her. There was no luck involved of course. I planned this and it made perfect sense to marry so she is bound to me now. I don’t mind them all looking because although they might be looking at her, I chose her, so their admiration of her, is actually admiration of me. I am looking forward to walking down the aisle with her. So many faces and all looking at us. I can barely keep still as it is now, knowing that so many hundred pairs of eyes are fixed on my back, watching us. This is brilliant. I should get married every week. The whole day is about us, but I know it is all down to me. I chose her. I drew her to me. I am the one that created this wonderful union and I get to spend the entire day basking in the glorious attention and well-wishes of the congregation and wedding guests. Even more of them will turn up for the evening reception. So many guests, but that is what comes of being so popular. I wonder if the Predecessor Primary Source, what was her name again, Wendy, that’s it, I wonder if she turned up. She accepted the invitation. Not that Victoria knows she is a former girlfriend but the pained look and frozen smile that I am expecting from Wendy will give me an extra special boost.
“to have to hold”
Oh she is mine alright and I want to make her happy because then she will make me happy. I do think I have got it right this time. Everything seems so right about her. She lies everything that I like. She is so helpful and caring, I picked very carefully after the disappointment of the others, like Wendy and so on. I should have invited some of the others actually. That would have been very entertaining to see their faces when I walked down the aisle with my beautiful wife. My wife. Mine. She belongs to me alright and this time it is going to work. I am sure I have selected the right one. I have her and I will have her time and time again. I know how to delight her and she responds magnificently to my touch. Well, to be honest, they all usually do, but this one, more so than the others. Another reason I chose her. Yes, she is mine to have and I am always going to hold on to her. I treat her well. I really do. That’s because I adore her. There are so many reasons why I do. She is clever, she is witty, she is beautiful, she looks after me, she understands what I need. I know that to be the case. This is why I chose her and this is why I married her. You don’t let someone this good wriggle free, so I will indeed have her and hold her Mr Priest, I will hold on to her very tightly indeed.
“from this day forward, for better, for worse”
There will be plenty of better because that is what she and I are about. We fit together so perfectly. My soulmate. I deserve her and she is delighted to have me as her new husband, I know because she has talked of little else since the engagement. It was quick but so what, you snooze, you lose as the saying goes. Yes, lots of better, we are so fortunate to have what we have, more than most people, but then we are not the ordinary people. I know I have elevated her, but she has accepted that with good grace and enthusiasm, just as I thought she would. She will do as she is told. I was pleased she didn’t go in for that modern rubbish of excluding her vow to honour and obey. If she had resisted that, well, there would have been a problem. I know some couples both say it to one another but I am traditionalist. I wear the trousers. Of course I will honour her, she knows that, but I do not need to say it, besides, I decide what I do, not some vows. Don’t get me wrong, I intend to stick to them, but if something happens, well, I have to do what is right for me. I am hoping she keeps giving me what I need and that day does not come, but if she does mess up, I don’t think she will, but let’s just say for the sake of discussion and argument that she does mess up, well I will ensure I have other options. I mean, she will be a grade A idiot if she does that, after all, she is getting a great deal with me, but you can’t be a fool and rule it out. Not after what I have seen with the other ones. I do think she is different so fingers-crossed we will not have to go down that route. So, yes I intend to honour her. Obey? You can fuck that sky high! I do what I want. I am the doer, not the done too. Obey? Seriously? That one is for her and believe me she had better fucking comply with it or there will serious repercussions, but hey, I am getting ahead of myself here, I know she will, that is why I chose her. It is important that she does obey me because that way we stand the best chance of happiness and success. If she obeys me, which I know she will, I will keep her happy and not have to do what I have done with the others. Still, let’s not think about that on a day such as this. I don’t have to obey. She will. That is all that matters.
“for richer,”
No problems there El Vicaro, I have wedge and so has she. That box is well and truly ticked. How much longer will this go on for? I think I will have a cheeky peek over my shoulder. That bridesmaid is rather tasty; Natasha isn’t it? Victoria’s friend from university. She is totally wanting some of me. There we are again, that little grin and the bite of the bottom lip. Oh yes. Well too bad Natasha, this isn’t your gig but if it does go tits up, not that it will, I will look you up, of that you can be assured.
“for poorer”
Not going to happen so no concerns about that. Easy to agree with that one man of the cloth. Come on, when are we getting finished, I want to show off the vintage champagne that I bought. That will impress her old man. He loves that kind of thing. There he is, proud as punch that his girl has been chosen by HG here. Let’s give him a wink. He liked that, winked back. You wouldn’t be winking at me like that if you know what I am going to be doing to your daughter tonight. Hell yeah. Must have laughed then, I am getting a sideways glance from the soon-to-be Mrs HG, give her the smile. There we go, melting straight away. Easy.
“in sickness and in health”
Bollocks to that matey boy, who do you think I am? Some kind of fucking nursemaid? She gets ill she deals with it and anyway she can go and see the quacks, that’s why I pay private health insurance. Don’t expect me to be arsing around looking after her though, I have other things to get on with. Of course, it is a different proposition for me. I am in rude health, strong as an ox, fine mind and so on. I don’t get ill. Being ill is for the saps and the weaklings, but if I am hurt, I daresay with me it will be something pretty serious if it going to slow me down, then I know she will run around after me. After all, who wouldn’t. I am worth it.
“until death do us part.”
Absolutely right daddio. That’s the only way she is getting away from me, when either her or me shuffles off this mortal coil. This is for life.
166 thoughts on “To Have and To Hold”
Vent Your Spleen! (Please see the Rules in Formal Info)
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I feel a little sick after reading this. Been married to him for +20 years before I saw the light. Years of counselling, and we’re still trying to work it out. Is a healthy marriage even possible?
@DazedAndConfused,
Depends on how you define “healthy”.
Yes that wretched Ex! Misstep on my part. This new spouse I vetted well!
Geeeze, it’s like certain parts of their brain are frozen, shut down so to speak. disconected circuits. An empty soul.
Thank you for your response 🙂
Does the narc REALLY think its going to work given all the past failures?Why haven’t you gone back down that road HG?
Hello Susan, when you state “does the narc really think it’s going to work” do you mean the Formal Relationship?
Yes, staying married. Do they really think that there is a chance that they can stay married to this person forever? Or do they enter into the union with a different mindset. In other words, what is the motive? why go through all of the formalities and financial risks etc. instead of just living with someone? Isn’t there the realization that the percentage of failure, that it will eventually end, is greater that the risks based on past behavior and relationships?
Yes they do. You would think that there would be a realisation and with some there is, for example, I have only been married once, but think of all those people who have been married more than twice, most likely they are our kind. Remember, the prospect of this person being The One, the binding that occurs from marriage, the fuel derived from the run up to it and the wedding itself (not just from the primary source but many sources) really does outweigh the thoughts about it being unlikely to last based on previous experience. Also factor in that the reason the other marriages failed was of course because it was the other person’s fault.
AH OH, i agree with indy. You seem like a strong, independent woman who knows what she wants. I enjoy your posts, and your sense of humour! Thank you for being you! 💗
ANYONE
Why do women keep the engagement rings? Is there some sort of tradition that goes with returning it or keeping it? Is it considered payment for lost time invested? Sentimentality? Punishment to him financially? I’m just curious. I can see the wedding ring when divorced as that contract was fulfilled (to a point lol).
Hi NA,
I think it is different for different folks and different situaitons. It is a good question. I will give you my reasons:
1.) My first one never asked for it back, and I was very angry for his cheating and drunkiness so I tossed it into a very deep river dramatically. It felt really good too LOL
2.) My ex husband never asked for it back. He tried to get me to stay and often would send money in the mail for months after (which I sent back–silly me, huh?), even after I left, as a way to get me to come back. He thought he could buy me. (He had money, I did not. I took nothing but the ring when I left. I left all furniture, etc)…Nope, I was not for sale. I was also very pride oriented. I kept the ring, sold it for rent money for myself and my son. I did not ask for alimony.
3.) I loved him. We engaged twice (he upgraded my ring) and we were together for 6 years. He never got totally clean, so I left. He never asked for them back. I never had the heart to sell them. Now that he is passed on, they are very sentimental.
4.) He never asked for it back, so I donated it to Salvation Army. Did not wish for any memories.
5.) My most current one that I left this past summer. I have it hidden so I wont be triggered by longing memories. I wish to sell it when I am ready. He never asked for it back. He still hoovers for me to come back.
INDY
Thanks for your reply. You seem to have thought it through and had a purpose for each (emotional purge, aiding in escape, sentimentality etc), but for the most part the attitude I have encountered is that the women consider it to be a gift that is not required to be returned. I did not know if there was some ancient tradition covering this. I did have an engagement ring (married and divorced young). I accepted it as that was what was expected at the time, but I remember thinking (and still do) that it seems like being branded by the man to show all other men you are taken. That a ring (that you could return at any time if desired) could keep you from accepting a better proposition seemed preposterous. I assumed girls like to flaunt that someone thinks them worthy and they like jewellery to show off so they would overlook the “intention” (which to me was downpayment on ownership) so they accept it. And of course there is really no risk (at least financially) on their part. I have no moral qualms about giving or not giving it back based on my view of its intention being slavery lol, but just wouldn’t want to have the memory after I had moved on from that person. To each his own though and if it can be put to good use (emotional purging, financing an escape) so be it. Thats the price they pay for previewing the goods lol and teach them for thinking they can hold us with a trinket.
PS. Gotta love this new trend of 2 diamonds in a ring now. One because shes your “best friend” and the other because shes your “love”. Cant remember the jeweller thats commercial started this but thats some marketing genius right there.
NA, you are so right! It is like a leash. It is a bit outdated, given women’s rights, etc. And, I love old school romance too, even though I am marching in two weeks. HAHAHAHHA…
Now, I didn’t think them all through…that toss into the river was a spontaneous move…LOL
NA,
That made me think of a huge billboard that was up for the holidays here from a jewelry store.
It said:
“Whatever your reason,
Love, Lust, or Grief
We are here for your needs”
I cracked up and pictured HG writing slogans for jewelry ads. Lol
Indy,
Number 3 made me sad and wanting to send hugs to u. ❤️🍎❤️
All this engagement talk has me really thinking what kind of state of mind I was in when my ex proposed to me and I said yes.
She was already engaged and I was married. She even had me swapping my rings out to wear hers. I was as delusional as her.
But HG made me realize from her perspective what the ring meant and how it bound me tighter to her even if subconsciously I didn’t want that. It did work and she almost succeeded.
She wanted it back and I wanted nothing to do with it.
Hi NarcAngel. I like to respond to your question. I have been engaged 0 times and married 0 times. However I have accumulated a large quantity of jewelry and gifts from my relationships. I still enjoy the gifts immensely without ever thinking of who they came from. Honestly I don’t remember. If I were to have an engagement or wedding ring, I would treat it the same way. Pretty little baubles for my troubles. I call jewelry ‘pain relief’. For all the headache you deal with in a narc relationship, it is only fair to have a bit of relief.
LOVE
Haha pain relief. Wear them well.
Oh girl, I do! 💖
It was a gift. You don’t get your gifts back.
Mr. Tudor, you can be my future ex-husband any day 💓
NarcAngel
Found your comments! Yes, I laugh at myself, at the situation, at the past, the good, bad and ugly. Some is dark, not all. I’m a positive person, and I know things will be alright. Now, with this much information from my own experiences, as well as all of HG’s disclosure, and all the others who’ve been here, I know I have to take one thing seriously, and that is the gut feeling something isn’t right. I can look back and see now, you know, hindsight….
Last question, for now –
Will the ex-MN ever decide his wife is ‘The One” since she continues to stay with him year after year, for 18 years now?
No.
“No” is in narc language. When translated to Empath, it becomes “Have faith, behind every rain cloud is a rainbow. Miracles happen. He loves you in his own way. You never know, one day he may wake up with all his positive emotions restored.” ❤
Love,
You crack me up. We need to own our “no”! HG tells us this. “No” exists in empath world too (Particularly super nova, bad-arse empath land!!!!). No is a naughty word for co-dependents.
Break from the silk webbing…into the butterfly that finds love within. Then, the other butterflies will flock without pushing or pulling….
Yes Indy, No is a very naughty word in codependent land. It is a bad bad word.
I don’t like to hear it.
Mr. Tudor shame on you.
You will get a great big hoog for saying that word.
I am shuddering already!
You know you love me, Mr. Tudor ❤
@BraveHeart,
Wife here. 15+ years. New to this blog.
1) I DO know about you. Sorry, you aren’t and have not been the only one. He has a harem.
2) Devalue and golden periods come in cycles. The cycles seem to get shorter than longer we are married.
3) Make-up sex with him after D&D is frantic, primal, and out of this world.
4) He lied to you about the trips. He planned them or we planned them together.
5) It’s my business why I choose to stay with him.
HG, if during an 18 year marriage, a Narc is targeting and preying on his new secondary source (me), and then having a full blown affair, for 5 years, does that mean his wife was being devalued that entire time (15 years), or just the 5 years we were actually together?
Also, if they were taking several trips together (at least 16 during the 5 yr. period) would those have been considered golden periods for the wife? Although, the ex-MN always said she was the one who planned the trips and he never knew, until the last minute, that they were going; I always knew what the fuck the truth was, and he knew I did, yet I was still left constantly in tears having to figure out (by myself) wtf just happened.
It’s incredible to me just how addicted I was to him. I just finished reading “Sex and the Narcissist” and I am definitely the “Broken Victim”. That’s why it’s so crucial, for my own good now, to truly fix myself and not even concern myself with another relationship anytime soon. Not because I no longer believe in love, but because I need to have all of my boundaries set in concrete now. That’s going to take a lot of time after being broken for basically 52 years. But with your help, guidance and honesty, HG, I know the day will come when I do find true love in my world. Even if it’s just for my self! I’ll take that any day! ❤️️🤗
P.S. I know I shouldn’t be concerning myself with the ex-MN and his wife anymore, and I really don’t for the most part, but there are just a few things that still pop into my mind from time to time and getting them answered from you, regardless of how brutal it may be, is exactly what I need to hear to keep healing my battle wounds. 😊
HG, what do you believe the ratio is that you receive, between positive and negative fuel, when in a primary source (marriage) relationship, with a secondary source on the side? Would the ratio change if your victim escaped and you didn’t have time to seduce someone else enough to make them your new secondary source?
More negative than positive because of the proximity to the primary source and also the potency of this fuel.
Which victim escaped? The primary or the secondary?
The secondary.
No because other secondary sources would be relied on and positive fuel would be obtained.
well divorce me then… I dare You…
Oh come now HG. You kept the ring, had it enlarged and wear it often. Just not on your finger.
Lol oh soooo naughty!!!
Prince Albert 💍
Wait wait! HG will you marry me? I promise not to obey and I promise I would be a fucking handful!
There now you have another one that you can add to you being asked and you turning down.
Thank you for the proposal Ah Oh but the fuel wouldn’t be right, so we can remain pals instead. I know you will bounce back from your huge disappointment (!) but you do have the consolation that as pals it is a longer golden period that if IPPS, so every cloud and that!
Wait! Does this mean we are breaking up? Ah man, I wanted to play house. Damn! So post office it is then!
Ha ha play house, that takes me back.
Post office? Oh my, AhOh!!! I know about all those packages!!!
Have fun with that Swede!!! So glad you are getting some hunting in and fun too! Rawr 😺
Does it? You can remember?
Yes, it’s what I do with all my victims, well those I choose to live with.
Funny I play house with all my narcs too. I get my wifey/mommy fix without having to merge finances or have any permanent responsibilities.
Awesome AhOh!!! 😂 Now HG has more proposals than me!!!! I got a ring if you need a spare lol…better than throwing into a volcano!
You know what @ everbody? About a month ago an aquaintance of mine said to me that if one could laugh about one’s trauma, then it would be almost healed. I hadn’t even told her anything about my ex-narc. However, I didn’t find that funny at all, inspite of kind of having a sense of black humour.
BUT you all have made me laugh so hard these past days, it’s incredible. 😉
Especially you, HG. Goldinarc, *haha*. 🙂 And I love your dark sarcasm.
It’s nice to be your quaternary source with an eternal golden period (hopefully). 😉
Thank you all. I feel a lot better, my anxiety is almost gone.
🙂
Ava—((((Hugs)))))
Humor is indeed quite a healer!!! HG, perhaps not purposefully, is helping us all heal as we also helping each other! I am so glad to hear that you are starting to see the other side.
AVA101
Maybe your friend knows this from experience or maybe she suspects you have turmoil. Either way I believe they are right. I do not ruminate on my trauma, nor do I downplay it or try to make it more palatable, or tolerate coddling which I think just prolongs healing by giving an excuse to keep enduring it. I own it, look at it now for purposes of clarity and warning so that it doesn’t happen again on my watch. I can even find the humour in some situations when it memory gets heavy. It may not have been funny at the time but now when I am faced with a difficult memory I try to remember for instance how ridiculous the persons face was in anger instead of the hurtful words, how they were all serious and pronounced a word incorrectly, or how hell came down because he couldn’t find something and it was right behind him. Also things I did (like spelling words incorrectly on a flipchart presentation he made me do for him for work which made me giggle inside). I think I am so enamoured of humour because, well for one I lived to hear laughter (especially from my Mother and siblings)-thats my music, and also to spite StepNarc who said women could never be funny. I credit humour with saving my life. So laugh my friend. Laugh deep and hard. Never let them take that and thank your friend.
Thank you Indy, thank you NarcAngel. 🙂
*hugs* back
NarcAngel, but I will also never forget the laugh of my ex-narc when he hurt me and played me on purpose.
AVA101
Replace it with laughter given free from opression and it will only serve as a warning if you ever stray towards that type of person again. That is the only time it can ever serve a purpose.
Married 7 weeks exactly before he destroyed the house and left. I don’t think he was aware that I would get a restraining order. Of course it wasn’t the first time in our relationship that he destroyed my property but it will be the last. I asked him why did he marry me and he said it was to test my loyalty to him.
A.Marie- Sorry, what a Creep!
Omg, mine said loyalty also. We passed all of their sick tests.
Hi Indy!
I can’t wait to hear what you did with the rings. Lol
Happy New Year,Snow🎉🍾
Let’s hope 2017 brings a year of joy, strength and health and of course love in its truest form for us all 😊
Happy New Year to you Indy!!!
I will raise my glass to you. 🍻🍸🍹
Love might be right around the corner for you.
Maybe in D.C. lol
Can’t wait to hear how the march turns out.
Hey SW, Raising my glass to you as well for a wonderful New Year and trip to the beach 🌊
I’m just hoping to make it out of the march unmaimed and not arrested 😂
Hi INDY
I hope it is peaceful as well. For safety sake and because the message gets lost if it turns otherwise. Im sure you will be fine as you are observant to those around you and you’re a smart woman. I marched on Parliament hill here in Ottawa and was advanced on by riot squad in full gear. Couldnt believe it as it was pretty peaceful. You see it on tv but it is quite the feeling to be in that atmosphere. I found it electrifying and exhilarating but I also looked around for my exit and watched carefully to assess for danger. You’ll be fine and I’d love to hear about your experience after if you care to share.
Hi NA, Snow and Love,
Yes, we are taking lots of precautions. That is really awesome NA that you marched for your beliefs on parliament! Yes, the riot and crowd control measures are a concern that has been brought up as well as extremists. We have permits but you never know. Thousands are coming. I’ve been involved in activism in the past, mainly in the 90s for women, LGBT and AIDS. There is a bit more to be afraid of now with the timing and government unrest (though in my 20s I didn’t have enough fear to be honest lol) Im being a calm marcher with a plan and the ACLU pamphlets in my back pack LOL of lawyers.
I’ll let you all know how it goes down. Pray for peace or send woo woo protection vibes 😊
Snow, yes, I have a feeling a lot of us in the autism and mental health world will need to stand up even more for certain policies to support proper insurance coverage and research for treatment funding in this administration.
Love, lol, yes I will ride the crowd like a boss if it gets a bit wild 😂
It’s an adventure indeed!! Love too, love of fellow women’s rights! Go 2017!
I will be looking for you on the news Indy. Lol 😆
I remember being interested in political parties and women’s rights when I was in college and find it admirable to join in for what you believe in.
We need people to stand up.
I’m sure just like you, you learned a little from being an advocate for your son and grandson. I have a strong voice when it comes to my son.
Hope this is a wonderful new year for all with a lot of exciting adventures. Indy, sounds like you’re starting it off right with the march. If it gets crazy, just crawl on top and be carried away like a mosh pit 😁
You make me laugh Love ❤️
I’m picturing Indy on top of all the marchers. 😂😂😂😂
I missed it Indy. What march? Can I come!
Please do not tell me it is against the President-elect as I write the check for my insurance premiums that increased. For me and two sons I pay 1300 a month.
Hi AhOh,
I hear that fire!! Indeed!! It is the Women’s March on Washington in January, one day after the inauguration. It is focused on bringing to light the concerns many women have on defunding planned parenthood, reducing access to reproductive care, etc.
Now, is it also sparked because of Trump and his incoming administration political reputation and stated desire to defund certain programs, I will not lie, absolutely. However, it is not a protest to have him booted, that is not a useful use of time and woman power. He is supposed to actually have dialog with the marchers planned, so this is a good thing.
Hi Love,
HappyNew Year!
I have a story for each ring. In moderation. 💍💍💍💍💍💍
🍸🎉
You must be very special to have so many proposals. I have had them but I would not begin to think of being married to any of them. Other than the two I did marry, one for children and one for finances.
I knew I would never marry a second time if I had to punch a clock and live with a stinking man. I swore I would not marry anyone unless he could change my life. I provided very well for my kids on my own. The Corey came along. I was married to him in six months.
Hi Ah Oh,
I started young…I think that is a part of it. I know I’m a good person, fun, accepting of others…. though “special”,…hmmm… I have a hard time with thinking that. I know, we are all taught that we all are special, though….I don’t think I am honestly. I’m just me, like all of us here. I was engaged at 17, 21, 28 and 30 (same person), 35, 45. I also went a 8 year period single, between 36 and 44. I really wanted to be married again. Thus, it hurt a lot when I fell hard for this recent ex, while still Ioving, I had to leave for my sanity. I hate to admit it, but I guess I am a love devotee. I do want those Sunday morning coffees, those movies at home with a fire and wine, those philosophical convos, those snorting milk out of your nose convos, those food fights with dinner rolls at a nice steakhouse, etc…damn it.
I wasn’t sure if it was a lot or not.
I’m glad you found your Cory 😍 and found your way with a partner in crime. I’m still looking for my Clyde.
INDY, NOOOOO on the Corey. He is now my ex husband. You didn’t read the meaning of what I wrote. I said I would not marry unless he could change my life financially. He was the one for this. We divorced in 2011 and I should have left after the 1st two years. We lived separately for over 6 years before we divorced. I stayed for the lifestyle.
There is no prince in my life. I have been single for many years now.
I do not play well with others. I do not want to share a bed with someone on a full time basis. I will always want my own room. I do not believe in the happy ever after facade they teach us. I do believe in acceptance for ones faults and a mutual respect of person and space. But I will always need my own space. ALWAYS.
Reread all my posts and as a therapist, you will know me and get me. I have not embellished or stated anything false on here.
I never was the type to be married. Not really. I never changed my name to theirs. Being married is a business to me. It is not for the I love you forever BS, there is no such thing. We are a species that needs to have not one for life. Now that I am older I would have one companion and it is because I am older.
Hi Ah Oh,
I am so sorry I totally missed that detail that you divorced him in this last post. I had originally thought you were single and when I read that last bit, I thought you were still with Corey for some reason (Perhaps I was reading while tired, I do apologize). I did understand your purpose for him and marrying for a purpose that helps your life (financial, etc.), I just misread and thought you were still with him and some how it was more than I thought previously.
I do know you are a fiery woman, always read that in your posts and fiercely independent! This is what I admire in you, from what I know here. These are great assets to have. I believe you when you say you are honest in what you post. I sense that too. You pull no punches 🙂
Now, I will say, in my defense, even though the therapist in me comes out from time to time (because it is built in me at this point in life), I do not always have the laser beam attention I use while in session, so I miss some details, like this one. No disrespect to your story intended. Just my lovely ADHD rearing its lovely head…My apologies.
And, I hope you had some fun with your friend from Sweden 🙂 Please share, as I am not yet dating and I need some deets!!
Forgive me?
Indy
My dearest Indy, you need not have my forgiveness as you have done nothing wrong. I stated that you will know me with reading what I write as you are astute.
I am ADD and love my meds for it too.
My friend from Sweden is just this, a friend. It is a female.
I will be going over this summer to find a Danish man. I like the look. You are welcomed to join me.
We are leaving for Maui tonight on a redeye.
Hi AhOh,
Sometimes it is hard to tell in written form whether we have offended or not, so I am glad I have not 🙂 I am so ADD at times. LOL I am glad you can relate. Oh have soooo much fun on your travels to Maui!! MMMMM, Sweden…..I love your traveling lifestyle. Someday, I will get there…First, paying my dues and doing what I love on a paupers pay. Hahahhaha….I am pretty lucky, though! Keep me in spirit on your adventures and maybe we can meet up on a trip or two 🙂
Be safe and life wild my dear!
I have friends in Atlanta too. She owns a Bridal shop.
Awesome 🙂 Did you fly safely into Maui, having fun?
We finally may be getting snow here, the first time in 2 years…woo hoo!!!
They are already buying all the bread and milk at the stores (crazy people!), most likely 2-3 inches. I love it when it snows in the South, it is like a mini apocalypse. Everyone panics and leaves work and school early….and then nothing happens. Its great! Today I leave early to go find me some almond milk, Jamaican food, and coffee. Oh yeah, and something for the killer kitties LOL.
INDY
Spunky is in da houuuuusssse!!!
(Here AND there it appears).
Hoping you survive what you call an apocolypse and we call FRESH AIR with a pair of red socks and HGs latest book. Try not to fall asleep in meaty parts like you did last time. Enjoy your “snow day” lol.
NA!!!!
LOL, it is raining and I went to Trader Joe’s to pick up some groceries and all the bread was gone! And it is most likely going to snow 2 inches maybe three and by tomorrow afternoon it will be melted. That’s my prediction . One would think someone could survive without bread for 12 hours, but apparently a lot of people didn’t think so LOL
I got fuzzy white socks on tonight, so I won’t miss any meaty details ha ha…apparently fuzzywhite socks help my ADHD.
Indeed, fresh air for you…. I am still Vermont girl at heart I will have you know LOL I walked without a coat on today 🙂
Enjoy your evening too, my PLUCKY friend. I still need a bath from all that….not saying it.
INDY
Well you didn’t say that things had become dire! No piece of toasted rye bread for my poached egg is no laughing matter. If it does get warmer, that 2 or 3 inches will melt and could cause up to 1/2 in of water, so if you see animals running past you- girl, trade those socks for some Wellies and head for high ground!
NA,
Update on snow apocalypse 2017: there was more dust in the movie Scarface than on the streets of Atlanta. And with all the salt they put on the roads, I’m worried I won’t have any Epsom salts left to soak my pretty feet. Send Snow please!!!!! ❄️ ❄️️❄️️❄️️❄️️
INDY
Too late. I sent bread.
NA,
I have a feeling you sent it air mail (you have quite an arm!) Though I am am curious if you also sent some king cake and beignets (it is the season!)
Imagine when it snows in Vegas and it has. I love almond milk, coconut milk and I just sampled cashew mild.
Coffee is a must in the mornings but I drink fresh ginger and honey in hot water the rest of the day.
I am on Maui and it is wonderful to see everyone. It feels great when you get big Alohas and we missed you. We were at the beach all day relaxing. Look up Wailea Maui, it is beautiful.
Aloha AH OH,
Wailea is where I stayed in Maui. It’s a beautiful place.
Enjoy the ocean and scenery. Have fun!
SNOW Then you are familiar with the area. I owned in the Wailea Beach Villas. It was very nice. I got it in the divorce but sold it as I wanted the cash out of it. So it goes.
Many great memories with my kids here.
AhOh,
It is amazingly beautiful there, wow! I’ve been to Hawaii only once on a weekend layover from Japan I think my travel agent wanted to torture me with the beauty 😊
Enjoy the beaches sweety!!!
Yessss cashew milk is really frothy and good in lattes. I need to drink more ginger tea as I love ginger too. Healthier for sure! Just so addicted to my lattes
AVA101
What made you pick it up? The value of the ring if sold? Or some connection to him?
In this instance I had a fight in public with my ex-boyfriend, this ring was a “friendship ring”, not an engagement ring. I’m not sure if he’s a narcissist though he certainly has some traits (I’m sure his grand-matrinarc was one though, she left me speechless even though I was used to my narcissistic father).
I threw the ring on the street because of his hurtful remarks and cold behavior and I made a scene in public. 🙂 I actually don’t remember what he said, but he’s good at down-putting degrading remarks and he had some evident lack of feeling or empathy (while always being very helpful).
I picked it up (or maybe he did??) because I still believed in our relationship and didn’t really want to end it. I was thrown on the street in pain, in front of his eyes, to show him my hurt.
I did not pick it up because of the value. 😉 Connection: good question, didn’t feel such a strong one with him. Hm ….
I sold that ring after 10 years … the relationship lastet one year.
I ended the relationship on the phone and it took him 3 days to realize that I was in fact gone, he didn’t even take seriously what I said.
I sold my engagement ring (got engaged to another guy when only 18) after 15 years! And it took me even longer than that to realize that this one (the guy not the ring) was a true narcissist. It took me HG to realize that he had asked me to marry him in front of some friends of mine when we were in the theater while at the same time smearing me to them / isolating me from them on purpose. Back then, I thought, my friends had deserted me and that that had been my fault (or their fault, not the doing of my ex) and that my ex-boyfriend was the one being there for me, loving me (wasn’t the engagement proof of that).
AVA101
Ah. Thanks for your reply. I pictured you there having thrown it and needed the visual as to how the rest played out
Rubus fruticosus, for your kind. Bramble bush for those stuck with your kind.
Talking of ‘im sickness and health ‘ the easiest way to test a partner is to fall ill.
A narc will go out and leave you to tough it out every time.
Well at least you intended to have a relationship, shame that your brethren feel entitled to punish another human being.
‘Obey’ – a word that does not exist in my vocabulary :-D. It never ceases to amaze me what is going on in a narc’s mind. Such were your thoughts at your own wedding, HG?
Along those lines Matilda.
A completely different script will be running in her mind, no doubt. Your depiction made me laugh in places: how refreshingly honest! 😀
It makes me wonder though how many men actually think along these lines and just put on a brave face to give her the fairy tale wedding she craves…
HG,someone to “trump” or Trump my numerous engagements?
Was it a pun? 😂
2017 is gonna be interesting. 🎉
Indy,
We are kindred spirits. I’ve been engaged 7 times. The seventh I married. The other 6, Kept every ring but 1. My first narc I mailed ring back to him and he took it back to jewelry store where he told the sales clerk that I was in a car crash became quadripaligic and then died. She cried. He proceeded to get her phone number and ended up sleeping with her because he was just so lonely. Rat bastard. She fell for it. And to think just months ago I was going to sleep with this guy…thank HG I didn’t do that.
Indeed kindred spirits, ABB!
You go girl, keep those rings and I am so glad you did not go down temptation highway. I was never asked for any of mine back. My favorite was giving my ring to the ringing Santa. It was revenge in a weird way…you see, he was the only man that dumped me. He ghosted me two weeks after my mother died (after a long battle of illnesses). He said to me that I should be “over it” by now and that I was “soul sick”. Well, in my mother’s honor, as the Salvation Army gave my mother help for many medical bills for cancer, I gave it to them, in a ringing Santa kettle. He was such as jerk, only 10 months long thankfully. He was cheating, I caught him with women’s clothes left in his car. All my other engagements were multiple year relationships. On average, 6 years each…
Put on those rings on each ringer, we are gonna do a diamond fist bump!!
***Bumps**
Indy,
Very nice of you to give to charity. I could always get the ring but couldn’t follow through. I was in every relationship 2 years or less. My husband has been the longest relationship I’ve ever had. I’ve never had any crazy ideas about cheating until last year. I started reminiscing too much about sex. Since I already have a warped tie in with sex and abuse. I have to continually remind myself that I am more than an object for sex. I am intelligent, humorous, capable and many other things. This is hard for me to believe. I also have to remind myself every time my husband does something for me that it means he loves me and that none of the men I was with before would ever do those things for me. They wouldn’t take care of me. They wouldn’t be kind. They wouldn’t do the things my husband does. The only person I have ever truly loved is my son. I have to remember that my husband loves me like that and more so because we are intimate. That sex is an expression of love not a power play or chess match. It has taken me a long time to try to understand unconditional love. I find myself using HG as my comparative. Only because he tells us how he thinks. Not to criticize him. Would HG make me dinner, run my bath, bring me a cup of tea and tuck me in with a fresh from the dryer soft warm blanket when I am sick? No way. Why would I ever give up that? Because I want someone to objectify me in bed? It would be stupid to ever think a Narcissist could change and do those things. HG keeps trying to tell us. I am starting to become a believer. HG is a great person but I would be better off taking his advice and not taking on someone like him again. I still like you HG don’t get me wrong, but you’d have to make me tea and toast and tell me I am the best thing that ever happened to you for at least 15 years straight. I hope someday you do that for someone special. Indy, I hope you find someone that will do that too and I hope you love yourself enough to accept it.
Tea and toast, no problem. 15 years? See my butler!
Looks like me and Jeeves are gonna be tight. If you objectify me in bed and jeevesy takes care of me that could definitely work. Leave it to you to suck me back in. You evil mastermind. 💙
Ha ha very good.
ABB, your story touches me and I too hope for such a love. You are being honest, and that is beautiful and earns my respect. Indeed, each of us deserves to be loved and cared for and to care for in such deep ways. And, learn how to accept this love. This is why I am looking for my teddy bear, instead of a pit bull. It may take me some time too, to not feel the odd difference. I may also seek spice, too. And, your words help me see that this may happen and I can prepare for that too…thank you for your wisdom from the other side 🙂
PS: Donating that ring was in the spirit of “fuck off”, not pure of heart. LOL…
Indy
Yup married my MRN in about a year.. eloped…he even had teary eyes during vows..on the very romantic beach locale..kids came quickly too..
HG how many marriages or proposals have you had? After how long of dating?
Are you divorced? Just curious..
Hi Ginger,
I have had one marriage and five proposals. They were all made within 6-12 months.
Yes I am divorced.
OMG
If you had 5 proposals but were engaged only twice – what happened to the other ones?
I said no.
Wait, women proposed to you… oh I need to hear the stories. Did you get rings…. if any man got a ring from a woman it would be you HG 😸
Ha ha thanks Indy. No I did not wear an engagement ring not was I offered one. You shall hear the stories. One individual tried several times – she was a trier alright.
How many times did she try? Did she have abandonment issues or was she a gold digger or just completely mesmerized by the Tude!
Three times. Mesmerised of course Indy, who wouldn’t be?
And I had a lot? We are neck in neck on engagements 😂
Did you give each a diamond? Did you get all rings back? Any of the women you proposed to with two rings or more than once?
Proposed to two, received yes from two. Both excellent diamond engagement rings. Rings were recovered. One thrown at me, the other brought back by an irate father.
*lol* the father …. what did you say? “Sorry Sir, we’re just not a good fit”?
I told him to watch his tongue and be thankful I hadn’t taken more (although down the line that did happen).
HG
Thankful you hadn’t taken more? Of?
What I had given to her.
You’re priceless.
Why did the return the rings??? I would have kept it.
Mr. Tudor, what is your favorite jewelry shop?
Well one did in a fit of pique which suited me and the other did because I demanded it and I was not going to be denied.
Asprey and De Beers.
Very nice Mr. Tudor. If you ever give a remote tertiary (myself) a beautiful piece of jewelry, I would cherish it always and never give it back to you – even if you demanded. ❤
HG – I noticed in above comments that you have been engaged twice but here you say you proposed 6 times. Surely these girls accepted your proposals so how could you have only been engaged twice? I am curious because I had a broken engagement with a MR and I am curious how much being an ex fiancé or wife increases the likelihood of being hoovered. And yes, I am reading old blog posts like a super empath stalker.
Hello Mandy, no, five proposals. As stated, on the other occasions I said no.
You have posted this before and it is still my favorite as it shows your wicked sense of humor.
My other favorite is the post on color.
That sounds about right. I don’t understand marriage. If people weren’t meant to wander and to stay monogamous there wouldn’t have to be such an institution. So if someone wants to nail you down legally through marriage theres a reason. Its a trap.
I have always thought of marriage as a statement of love and sincere commitment between two people, against all odds life may bring. These days, I agree with you, NarcAngel – it sounds more like entrapment than bliss.
I’m currently watching 19th century marriage business… Mr. Darcy just took a dip in his lake… soaking wet from head to toe, a most delightful sight, indeed!! 😀 😀 😀
Ohh what a good idea to watch this today. Maybe I should … hmmm…..
Oh, yes, you should, ava101!! I spent the last six hours in Mr. Darcy’s company! ;-D
[youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hasKmDr1yrA&w=560&h=315%5D
What a moment!! 😊 😊 😊
But it’s all Mr. Darcy’s fault, because we think after the first abuse that “he” will turn out to be our Mr. Darcy …
*sigh*
Ava101,
I used to think that, too, because you hear it ever so often. On one occasion, when my narc thought he needed to bestow his godly wisdom upon me, he told me that ‘life is not a romance novel’. Oh, really?! Thank you so much for your brilliant insight! How on earth have I managed to survive thus far without your guidance? I shall bow my head in gratitude and, henceforth, worship the ground you are walking on!!
Well, if we read our beloved classics such as ‘Jane Eyre’ or ‘Pride and Prejudice’ carefully, we will see that our heroines are strong women, not some damsels in distress looking for knights in shining armour.
Both Lizzy and Jane refused to follow their suitors’ wishes based on their sense of self-worth! They had had firm boundaries in place and asserted them as necessary. Jane left Rochester because she refused to live ‘in sin’ with him. Lizzy rejected Darcy because he belittled her during his proposal and because he was partly responsible for her beloved sister’s misery. Seriously, dude, what made you think she would accept regardless of your words and actions? Both Darcy and Rochester were well and truly humbled, and changed their ways. And that is the only reason why there were happy endings.
So, I would say, Darcy is not at fault 🙂 … we are at fault for not knowing what boundaries are, or for not asserting them when we ought to do so!
MATILDA
I agree that we need to know our boundaries and maintain them. Now having said that…….Colin Firth can breach my boundaries any day. And for triangulation-Colin Firth and Hugh Grant ala Bridget Jones. Not quite dark enough for my taste but amusing enough.
Very good , Matilda! 🙂
Yes you’re right. And those weren’t romance novels anyways. And Jane Austen shows often enough what happens if one is guided by outward appearances. Hmmm maybe Edward’s family was narcissistic though …
Just imagine being married at that time in a huge mansion to a narcissist, when men were the owner of their wifes anyway and allowed to beat them. Hell. No rights, no own money, ….
My grandmother’s name was Mathilde, I was just looking at her engagement ring today. 🙂 I have no idea how my grandparents produced my mother, but well, my grandmother certainly wasn’t an independent woman, both her and my mother might as well have lived at the beginning of the 19th century ….
Not to mention Colin Firth and Patrick Dempsay with Bridget ….
Now, now, NarcAngel, take a deep breath and remember your pledge! I also enjoyed ‘Bridget Jones’, especially the reference to Austen’s Darcy. 🙂
Both Darcy and Rochester are more men of their times than narcissists, I think, and behave according to society’s expectations as well as their status in life.
Both are landlords and praised for their fairness and generosity. Both show empathy: Darcy is fiercely protective of his younger sister Georgiana. Rochester lets his mad wife live in his home, albeit secretly, when he easily could have put her in a lunatic asylum. He also takes care of a Adèle, a girl who most likely is not his biological child.
Now, Rochester is no saint when it comes to manipulations. He tries to elicit Jane’s true feelings for him, dressed as a female fortune teller. Does not work, but kudos to him for the effort! :-D. He also triangulates her with a beautiful gold digger, courting her in front of Jane’s eyes. That is not amusing at all, Edward, shame on you!! But it works as she cracks soon afterwards.
Darcy is more like an arrogant fellow than a narc, a result of his upbringing and the social circles he moves in, both in business and private matters. As a landowner and business man, he cannot allow himself to display behaviour that will be regarded as weakness in the eyes of his peers. That’s probably a struggle for most people in higher positions: how can you develop a softer, more human side to your character, when you have to display authority and strength at all times in order to maintain your position?
Both men face arranged marriages for financial gain of their families, which was common practice. Darcy narrowly escapes this fate and Rochester’s wife eventually dies in a fire.
Edward and Fitzwilliam, my first loves… 😉
—
Yes, the dynamics changed as soon as women gained financial independence. These days, and due to modern law, abuse seems to have shifted from the physical to the psychological. The latter leaves no visible evidence and is much harder to prosecute.
I do enjoy reading a well-reasoned observation, thanks Matilda.
Mr. Darcy’s … what was he … the guy he grew up with, who eloped with Lydia – He’s a narcissist. And Edward’s mother and his fiancée.
I actually was more thinking of Wuthering Heights after knowing my ex-narc … Always wondered about the very dark streak of the Brontes.
It is interesting because by all accounts they led isolated lives which causes one to wonder how such a scenario as Wuthering Heights was imagined, but then again, perhaps it was not as imagined as first thought…
You’re welcome, HG, I enjoy writing comments 🙂
And I enjoy reading them.
Exactly, HG! I would think they had some kind of first hand experience … and they both write a lot about abuse and really intense relationships … Bit much for mere innocent imagination.
Always enjoy reading your comments, too.
HG and Ava101,
I shall give you a lengthier excursus this time only (this is not a literature blog after all) to shed some light on the sisters’ lives where fiction merges with reality in the most beautiful way.
But let’s start with Austen:
Yes, Mr. Wickham definitely is a narc. He is an opportunist, gambler and alcoholic, without regard for other peoples’ feelings. A dangerous charmer. Darcy saves his sister -and her inheritance- from his clutches. He has to pay a substantial sum to settle all of Wickham’s debts and force him into marrying blissfully ignorant Lydia. He does it to save the Bennet family from public disgrace, and ultimately, to be able to marry Lizzy, should she agree the second time ’round! He has proven to be a gentleman: of course, she agrees. My heart skipped a beat when I read that scene for the first time! 🙂
— —
Edward’s mother is not mentioned in ‘Jane Eyre’, as far as I remember, but the mother of Bertha, his wife. She pulls the strings regarding Edward’s engagement to Bertha. She fails to mention that insanity runs in her family and keeps them apart prior to the wedding to conceal the bride’s state of mind. She may well have been a matrinarc.
As children of a clergyman, the Brontes lived in Haworth’s parsonage, right next to the graveyard. Death was a constant in their lives. They experienced the most painful loss, the death of their loving but physically fragile mother, when they were between the ages of one to seven. Her sister took it upon herself to relocate to Haworth in order to look after the children. She was a good woman, but not particularly motherly. Their father was a very passionate and loving man deep down but grief-stricken, and he did not quite know how to deal with fairly young children. He treated them as adults, let them read newspapers and magazines, and encouraged debate in the home. He used a trick to make them speak up: a mask, which was handed around and enabled each child to speak freely under the cover, answering his probing questions with regard to moral issues etc, giving them the chance to form their own opinions and sharpen their intellectual skills. Once Mr. Bronte brought wooden toy soldiers home from one of his trips, the imaginary world of the Bronte children grew wild as they created entire kingdoms from scratch, which were inspired by current affairs. That was the moment they became writers!! Charlotte was about ten years old at the time. They grew up isolated, but not unworldly.
‘Jane Eyre’ was very much inspired by Charlotte’s own life. The earlier parts of the book describe the sisters’ experiences in a boarding school for poor clergymen. Her two eldest sisters died as a result of the poor care they received there. Upon reading ‘Jane Eyre’, the real-life culprit had the audacity to attempt to sue Charlotte. She had to write an apology. Charlotte suffered from unrequited love and poured her heart and soul into the book. She had fallen in love with her French teacher, Monsieur Héger, a married man. Guess who the inspiration was for Edward’s mad wife! :-D.
Where the inspiration for ‘Wuthering Heights’ came from is quite a mystery. Some say it was pure imagination. Others think that she was inspired by gossip picked up during her time as a teacher. Some even suggest that she had her own, secret story of passionate love with a weaver’s son. In any case, something very powerful must have gripped her to sit down and write this book. Emily was a very strong-willed, introvert person with a fierce temper, neither afraid to part fighting dogs nor to tell pupils she taught that she preferred the school dog’s company to any of theirs. You can see her personality shining through in this bold story of love and hate, power and control.
God, bless them… 🙂
Matilda, wow!
I mean Edward in Sense and Sensibiliy. Sorry. 🙂
Have to go back now to read on.
i hate to think of this. This is what he promised to me: soulmates, best friends, husband & wife except he did it to ensnare me and I didnt figure out there was another to whom he was “the love of her life”. Cheating on the both of us and pledging fidelity even while his stuff was being thrown out onto the driveway. Thanks to HG Tudor I’ve learned so much about what was really going on in his head and how I could not and would not tolerate any more from him
And let me guess, HG, after she succumbs to whatever removes her from this mortal coil, you will play the part of the most bereaved widower who ever lived, yes?
If the occasion merited it Laurie, naturally.
Daddio? Lol
Yeah, married once. Wrote our own vows. Obey was nowhere in there…lol…and, I am so sure, HG, you love that line. Obey….shudders. That’s is where they mess it up with me, I’m not one to be “tamed”. How did I still attract so many narcicists wth such a strong will? I know, I read Sitting Target. I know…that thing called empathy and codependent wish to rescue.
I was engaged multiple times, multiple rings…6 times. Is that a lot for a mid forties woman?
I’m sure there will be someone along to trump your numerous engagements Indy presently. Tell me, what did you do with the rings?
Ringing in the New Year, HG?
Happy New Year to you!!!! Thankful for this blog and wishing you many more successes and real love for the new year. 🍸🍸🍸🍸🍾
Be nice to Kim! Yes, you have to kiss her!!! It’s New Years for Christ sake!
My rings? I have stories for each!
1: Threw into Connecticut River in a dramatic fury from a bridge. He was cheating. My sons father, the one that stalked for years.
2: From ex husband. I Sold it to have money to help escape with son and pay for new living location. He was the guy that tried to get me to stay by fake suicide attempt.
3: and 4 Kept in jewelry box, both of them from number three as we broke up and got back together and got engaged again. Twice Still have them. From the man that died this year from addiction.
5: Donated to Salvation Army in the kettle with ringing Santa. Classic narcissist, 10 month relationship. Never talked about him here, he was brutal. Asked me to marry two months in.
6: Still have it. Hidden so I won’t be triggered. Recent midrange narcissist. Thinking of selling for a vacation or piece of art.
Is six a lot?
Good god….reading that..I’m a mess…lol
Hi Indy, thank you for your kind wishes and a Happy New Year to you. Interesting tales concerning your rings. It is certainly an above average number of engagements, are you sure you are not one of us?! I was waiting for you to say that you trekked across Mordor (Illinois) and climbed Mount Doom to hurl it into the fire from whence it came to destroy it!
Hahahaha!!! Perhaps my next ring will end up in a volcano!
Or Illinois 😂
Well, they all asked me to marry them. Not the other way. Do you think I’m narky?
Perhaps I put them all under my spell 😳
I rather think they all wanted to bind the empathic prize to them Indy.
You are not a mess Indy, you just had love in your heart ❤️
I can say that I often feel the same way after I write some things on here.
I think to myself
” I have lost it and I’m crazy”
But at the time nothing like that ran through my head.
Glad you escaped and are safe and sound.
Thank you Snow,
While reading my summary of serious relationships and proposals I had to think, what vibe and what behaviors am I engaging in to draw them and I to them….being here helps me see both sides. I do love being in love, who doesn’t. And I took a very long break too, alone, to develop me….(8 yrs) to end up back in the frying pan. Still the student.
Your kind words help, hugsssss
Happy New Year! 🎊🎉
Indy, honey, I hope you kept all 6 rings along with any other jewelry that came your way.
I sold mine. Threw one ring once on the street but picked it up again.
What did you do with your’s, HG?
It is stored away.
HG
Would you expect or demand the ring be returned to you? or prefer she keep it so you could get thought fuel from her having it and the memories and link to you?
I would demand the ring back and indeed did so on the occasions where it was relevant to me. The intention was to send the back at a further point as part of a hoover but it never came about.
My power animal…Rita as Guilda
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=e-LO9Ay6v_M
This is my mantra 💎
https://youtu.be/g__ANxxwKIk
Indeed Love, fuel is a narc’s best friend (and lover/occasional friend/brother/colleague/acquaintance etc etc)
*lol* HG very good, mordor. 😉
“I’d rather spend all ages of the world alone than one life with you.” 😉
One engagement with ring,I kept the ring but do not have it any longer, but I have the 1st pair of earrings he bought me.) Left him but we are still friends. We were kids. 24-25 years young.
1 marriage at 30 left at 34
1 marriage at 40 emotionally ended 2 years later. I stayed for the lifestyle and to raise my sons.
INDY! six times? You heart breaker!
How many times have you been engaged HG?
Twice.