Dirty Little Secret


Sometimes it is not all Relationship Bulletins, declarations to the world about you and me or announcements across the fabric of social media about our perfect love. Sometimes you are the dirty little secret.

This is never the title afforded to the primary source that we have chosen. It is those who are  secondary sources who find themselves labelled in this way.

Do you have a friend who makes demands of your time, often calls you and ensures that you give up your time so he or she is able to tell you all about what they have been doing, obtain your advice and uses you as a sounding board? Does this person tell you all about the brilliant weekend or she has just had with a group of other friends at some weekend away or at a concert but somehow no invitation came your way? Do you perhaps politely and subtly ask whether you can attend some forthcoming event which this friend is enthusiastically telling you about, maybe even gloating about how brilliant it will be, but this friend shows all of the perception of a plank of wood and never picks up on your hints? Even if they do or perhaps if you are more forceful as you ask whether you can attend or you point out how you never get invited along, are you met with comments such as:-

“Yes, I know you would have loved to have come but I didn’t organise it, John did and it is his fault he didn’t ask you.”

“I didn’t think it was your kind of thing.”

“There was only a few places available but I will make sure you can come to the next one.”(Of course this never transpires)

“I thought you hated rock music. I am sure you told me that you did.”

“I have been so busy I must have forgotten to ask you.”

“I did ask you and you said no.Dont you remember?”

(Of course this is a lie.)

These people are our inner circle. The select few who are our guardians of our reputations, loyal lieutenants and brainwashed and indoctrinated to fawn over us, carry out our demands and provide us with fuel and you are not in the inner circle.

In fact, the inner circle does not ever know about you. When we spend time with you, we string you along with future-faking, we allow you to bask in our greatness and at first it feels good to have such an interesting, charismatic and seemingly attentive friend. You may attract the label of friend and you sit in the outer circle but you are a dirty secret secondary source. We do not want our inner circle to know about you because whilst you serve an excellent purpose in providing us with fuel, your enthusiasm when we tell you with a moment’s notice that we are coming to visit is just the tip of the fuel berg. We know you are loyal, dependable and faithful. We know you will provide us with the fuel that we need and you above everybody else will be the go to person when fuel stocks are running low. Whether it is 3am call or an appearance on a wet and windy Monday evening in winter, you always welcome us in, always take the call and you always oblige. We do make you feel special, trotting out the easy to mouth platitudes about how much we like being with you, how we enjoy your company, how it is good to know that we can depend on you but this is just to keep you sweet and functioning. The reality is we do not want other people knowing about you because you do not fit with our idea of how our life looks. You might not be as good looking as we would prefer, you might not shine in a group, or you are apt to saying unusual things which we feel would make us look less impressive in front of our all important facade. No, you are kept in the background, used but rarely abused because you are the long-serving indentured servant of the narcissist. The loyal hound that sits in the corner of the kitchen, always ready to wag your tail for us but too old and unappealing to be paraded at the show. This is the role of a dirty secret secondary source.

There is also the Dirty Secret Intimate Partner  Secondary Source (“DSIPSS”). You were seduced and made into a secondary source and within the blind of an eye you were bedded and the platitudes of love and dedication came pouring forth in order to secure your loyalty. There are those who are earmarked for promotion to primary source, they are destined for better things so long as they come up to proof with regard to the provision of fuel, character traits and residual benefits. Those who are on the fast-track to being installed as the primary source can expect to meet our children, meet our families and our friends, be paraded and attend certain events with us, all at the humiliating cost to the currently devalued primary source who is on their way out, all being well with the seduction of this Intimate Partner Secondary Source. The future is rosy for this person.

The DSIPSS , at the outset, is never considered for promotion. Words may be whispered to that effect but they are just false promises, more future faking and the crumbs of comfort which are scattered to stop you foraging elsewhere. When we allocate you the role of dirty secret next to nobody knows about you.

Whereas the IPSS who is in waiting for the top role may find themselves being picked up and put down, with intervals of silence in between the weekend hook-ups, as we test that person to gauge their suitability for promotion, it is a different story for the dirty secret.

The dirty secret actually may well see quite a lot of us. in the backs of cars, in seedy motel rooms, in the back of the warehouse, the disabled toilet, the alley behind the house and such like. You are never to be seen by our family, our friends or even our colleagues. You remain hidden because your presence will offend our facade. We are the dedicated family man and thus we cannot be seen hanging out the back of you down some leafy lane at dusk. We are the champion of morals in our local community and it would not be the done thing for us to be know to be engaging in the debauchery that we insist on when we are with you. The primary source may well be devalued but we do not want them to be sullied by the knowledge of the filthy whore that have twice a week. You are a pit stop for a delicious injection of fuel. That snatched two drinks in an out of town bar where you had to sit and wait for two hours before we showed up? You are a dirty secret. Never allowed to call or message us before we have contacted you first? You are a dirty secret. Never allowed to meet our friends? You are a dirty secret. We wish to portray an image and you do not fit with that image but you are a potent bundle of fuel, dedicated and desperate, always hanging on for that stolen hour in bed together, the occasional afternoon when we pretend to work to have a meeting in the next state or county. You live for those moments because in that instant we make you feel wonderful, we focus on you, we give you the best sex, the excitement and the promises, oh the promises of what could be yours.

The future faking with an IPSS is born out of being torn between not wanting to lose a good source of fuel and the potential this IPSS has to perhaps become a primary source at some juncture. We do not want to lose that, thus we keep the IPSS hanging on as I described in the article ‘What Am I To Him?’ It is a different set-up for the DSIPSS. You were not initially selected for potential promotion. You were selected because you are a dependable, reliable turbo-boost of fuel and when we demand it, you always provide it. Why would we ever let that go? We would not.

Like the friend who is the dirty little secret above, you are the same but with you comes the intimacy. you are the recipient of our oft-spewed sugary charms and in receipt of our desire to use you for sex and the provision of fuel. We rarely take you anywhere, for fear of detection and our engagements are covert, hurried and secretive, yet this adds to our charm, our mystery and you find it as addictive as we do. It is only when we are going and you wonder what we are doing and who with, that you are left to rue the emptiness and the loneliness. You want to provide us with what you think we need, to allow your goodness to shine for us, but we will never let you do so, not outside of those hotel walls where we meet every Thursday evening.

Unfortunately for you, you do not fit in with the image we wish to convey to the world. You do not fit with what we wish to show. If we ever saw you, by chance, when we are out with our facade, be that family, friends or colleagues, we would ignore you and pretend we did not know you. Of course, later that day we would lay on the charm to excuse our behaviour because we do not want to let you go either. You are a brilliant stick on emergency fuel patch. You provide fuel and you remain hanging on, waiting for the day that you hopefully emerge blinking into the light of the golden period for the primary source.

That is never going to happen directly and at the outset of your allocation to this role.  Not that we will admit it to you.

Stay in that dark corner and wait for our call.

You are a dirty little secret.

193 thoughts on “Dirty Little Secret

  1. marija says:

    Dear Hg,well I had that friend who is narcissist,my best friend,and when i found out who he is I thought that I am a secundary source,but when i red this article i could be also Dirty Secret Intimate Partner Secondary Source (“DSIPSS”).We never ever had something bigger then hug,because he is married,and I dont see him as a man,just like brother.So must DSIPSS always be intimate vith N? I met his friends,his wife,he always spoke to them about me ,how great I am,But we never did something together ,only if this was connected with work (we are both lawyers)and we never drank coffe alone somewhere far from our workplace.I have know him for 4 years.When I look back,i can remember him looking at my seductive,my shoulder,my knees ,but I always tought he is just a man.Does this make a sense and who am I on the end for him,what is you opinion,because i have now hoover to deal with:-DDD

    1. HG Tudor says:

      A Dirty Secret involves intimacy yes. To answer accurately what you were to him, the appropriate way of doing so is through a consultation as I will need more information from you and need to dedicate additional time to analysing that information and replying.

  2. ng27 says:


    I don’t think the silent treatment is out of fear of rejection, I think it is simply his form of control, to punish you, and knowing it will make you crazy to contact him.

    Believe me, I know exactly how you feel. I went through this turmoil for so long and tried to break free, but always gave in to temptation because I wanted him to remember how beautiful our relationship was. I would text and be light and breezy…or I would text to check in to see he was safe. Its all a game to them.

    I hope you can continue to resist reaching out to him. I understand the sleepless nights, the lack of appetite. its all horribly destructive to us. but staying with him causes you to lose more of your life to someone who will never give you what you deserve.


    1. Bliss says:

      ANK, can relate with the complete lack of interest and I’m actually afraid of just sitting down and watching telly, can’t even go to cinema or go to bed because I know that imminent crippling pain, that gaping hole in my heart feeling.. Just kills me each time I relax. So I keep myself busy until I literally collapse each day. Thankfully I’m naturally so busy with work, home and have such a great social life anyway it’s not a problem.

      However, downside is… people used to say I look 27-29 but all are now guessing 10 years more than that. I’ve aged 10 years in just a few short months because of this latest narcpath!! Friends have all asked me to go dating, meet new people and I’ve had a few ask me out, but I have no interest in any of them. I just want my narcpath. I suspect it would take another narcpath to attract my attention now, which is a scary thought. Will probably age another 20 years if I fall for another.

      With birthday, did he not scar you with birthdays? I didn’t contact my narc on his birthday and seeing as I’m the most pathetic person when it comes to no contact, and I managed to refrain from contact on his birthday, that should mean there’s hope for everyone else, ha ha! Loads of distraction that day what ng27 does and send birthday wishes to nowhere.

      Ng27, really love that idea of yours and will be trying it out! 😃

      1. ng27 says:

        I completely relate to the aging. Although all these months later I think I look more like myself again

        Tried dating. Couldn’t do it. I feel bad for the men I went out with, as it was a waste of their time.

        I want to hate him so badly, cannot get to that point.

        1. ANK says:

          Yep, feel; like I’ve aged a lot in the last months. More wrinkles and grey hair, and hair falling out. Might be bald soon!

          I go through phases of hating and wanting. And a little bit of love still. The hate usually appears during the silent periods when I know he is in contact with the new IPPS all the time. Hopefully soon there will be no feeling at all for him.

          I joined match shortly after finding out about the new IPPS, as kind of two finger salute and to make myself feel good about. The quality of men on there…. least said.

          To scared to get involved with anyone for fear of getting hurt, and not being able to trust.

          I can;t have casual relationships and not care, so I guess I@m going to be single. I keep telling myself I’m better off single.

      2. ng27 says:

        Bliss, I read your post again, as I cannot sleep at all. You are definitely not pathetic, and I am so happy you were able to refrain from reaching out on his birthday. That, of course, is such an IMPORTANT day to them! I was so proud of myself when I did nothing on the day mine was born either! Every other year I made such a fuss, and yet when it came to my birthday he barely remembered.

        Do something for yourself today, something really special. You are no less important than he is, and he is stealing your life right now by occupying your thoughts! Don’t worry about dating like your friends want you to, I get that advice too because they see how great we are and they want us to be happy with a partner. But until we are healed, dating does not feel right.

      3. Bliss says:

        Mary, that’s exactly what puts me down. I have days or weeks when I think I’ve gotten over it, then it’s back with a vengeance. It’s as you say, the addiction. It goes but it keeps coming back. The passionate sex and constant stream of sexting and positive attention he gave me, how I (initially) turned to him for help on everything and anything.

        Ng27, hah, if nothing else we managed to have a little victory of our own on their birthdays! Hope you managed to get some sleep. I know it all too well! One day we will wake up and feel something’s amiss, having gone through days previous wondering what’s missing, and realising that the missing element is the lack of obsession over our ex narcs. That will be the day we’re free. Wonder if that day will ever come?

      4. ANK says:


        He didn’t scar me with birthdays. Neither mine nor his.

        He never really showed me his nasty side, until he decided to divorce his wife. Then he was coming out with things like it would be better if she didn’t recover from her cancer, that she wasn’t intelligent, she was a crazy bitch. WhenIi found out about the new source, then a bit of gaslighting started to appear.

        I think he is very cunning, wanting to maintain his pillar of the community, knight in shining armour, that he is there fore you, and cares, facade.

        I have got off lightly compared to some on here. I admire those that have truly suffered so much and have had the strength to get away.

        Like you I am fearful that I will attract narcs. You see I never chase after a men, i prefer them to chase me, and i think I was a challenge for him. It took a year to get me into bed. With his new IPPS it only took 6 months.

        Good that you are keeping busy. That helps enormously to keep the mind off the narc, which in turns prevents the pain surfacing .

        You say you want your narcopath – as someone else has said in another post – the heart wants what the heart wants. I know that only too well too.

    2. Mary says:

      ANK and Narc Affair:

      What you both were saying about having bouts of strength and enjoying life at moments…. when I first went No Contact (and even sometimes during silent treatments), I had these also. Like you, Narc Affair, when he would write, I would be torn between relief and excitement to be in touch with him again versus disappointment that I was giving up any progress I felt had been made.

      ANK: You said “The pain upon waking up is the worst. It’s hard to describe the sensation – a kind of emptiness with gnawing” … THIS!!!! I cannot tell you how many mornings I woke feeling like I was being kicked in the gut, either because he wasn’t pursuing me, or because I was trying to stay away and felt bad, like what if I was all wrong, and I was giving up this friend/lover person who never meant any harm. It’s a terrible, awful, sick feeling, and it is emptiness. We don’t have the illusion anymore, and it’s excruciating when we realize that’s all it was. I’m sorry you are going through this. I know that feeling oh so well. One thing I can say is, after 3 months no-contact, I do not wake up with that gnawing ache for him anymore. It took a long damn time, and HG’s posts and the comments here have been so valuable. I still obsess, my brain is still fixated on him and learning and understanding, but the physically sick part has passed. And when we were talking, it went away at times too, but it would always come back even worse the next time. That’s the thing to remember, the pain will always come back around, as long as he’s in your life.

      1. ng27 says:

        Nights are the worst for me. Lying here thinking about all the wonderful and trying to figure out why the change in his behavior and why he would want to give that up.
        Can’t shake the blank cold stare when I saw him days ago.

        1. ANK says:

          likewise, nights, upon waking, during weekends when I am not out and about. I try to get busy doing stuff around my home.

          1. ng27 says:

            ANK, how are you?

          2. ANK says:

            Hi NG27,

            How nice of you to think of me. When I saw your comment while on the bus to work, I started to cry. I had to stop myself before people started to look at me oddly.

            I am going through a tough period and that’s why I started to cry. I thought I was doing ok. I haven’t been full no contact and while I was away over the summer looking after my mother that was a bit of a distraction. Hating the lack of communication from him made me text him. I texted him at the end of August and he responded with a thank you. I didn’t text again and resolved not. I was not expecting to hear from him, but a couple of weeks later he sent a happy birthday text. Said he was at home waiting for engineer to sort satellite tv otherwise he would come round (I was off work). A few more texts asking what I was wearing and to send pic of myself, the photo of me showing a bit of cleavage had made him hard. Then at midday a text asking if I was going to be at home at 2 to make him a cup of tea. I wanted to say no but also yes and in the end yes won. He sad he missed me. He was going spend the next hour kissing me, he wasn’t there just to fuck me… etc. Needless to say we ended up having sex.

            Of course I knew he just there to fuck me. And I though to my self, ok I’ll take this form you. Use you like you’ve used me.

            I asked him why did he miss me when he had the other women. He said he was only seeing her once a week and anyway she was divorced now. I said oh well that’s good she can move in with you now and he said ‘no she’s got kids’. He stayed around a bit after we had sex and then left. I got a text later in the week and then the last exchange was on 18 September. Nothing since then. And I have resisted texting him, because he is responding only to appear polite.

            On Monday going home from work I saw his new woman walking towards me. I really wanted to stop her and say something to her about him.

            I have heard that he has been chatting a lot to another woman in the work place who is not happy in her marriage.

            I have been feeling so down, not hearing from him and every morning that anxious feeling in the pit of my stomach is there. I don’t want to get out of bed.

            I know it’s for the best not hearing from him, but it doesn’t feel like it. I don’t think I will hear from him at all now.

            How are you getting on?

      2. Bliss says:

        Mary, so there’s hope?! That kick in the gut, empty feeling does go away eventually? Been waking up with that almost everyday now and it seems to be getting worse!

        Ng27 and ANk, I just can’t believe how much similarities there are with our experiences and how we feel. i’ve yet to speak to a single person in real life that have gone through what we have.

        I’ve spoken to countless people who have either been fortunate not to have encountered one, or there are those who have when I’ve briefly described my encounter but they normally say that they heeded red flags and got out at the first sign of glib, OTT love bombing or any sort of inconsistencies.

        I can’t hate my narc too. Will love him for life now. On a more positive note, I’ve been seeing a non-narc ex more (in groups, not romantic! He’s happy with someone else now) who I was rather in love with, I don’t like thinking about it because he’s the one I would’ve have happily loved and loved the rest of my life with. Did not work out and he’s as said happily with someone else.. But I realise how positive and happy relationships can be now talking to him again. Whenever I speak to him, and remember the good times we had, I don’t remember these awful feelings and mind games that narcs subject is to. I just remember being positive, focused, in love. No it’s wasn’t mind blowing and passionate, but it was just so easy. I’m going to hold on to that thought for now.

      3. Bliss says:

        What I was trying to say is that a normal relationship shouldn’t drain and distract us as we are now, the obsession and addiction. The roller coaster ride we experience with narcs, the way they drain and suck the life from us.

        It was really draining with my mid range, but with the Greater even during the golden period I remember him sucking the life out of me, I was always drained and exhausted!

        I never experienced these with the non-narc. So you’d have thought that’s motivation enough for us to let go of our narcs. Wishful thinking? xx

      4. Mary says:


        YES. Absolutely. There is hope! I can’t speak for everyone and it’ll depend on how long the narc was in your life too, the extent of impact they made in your routines. For me though, it took several weeks to get to where I didn’t have that sick feeling in my gut all the time. I thought for sure that if being away hurts this much, maybe we are meant to be in each other’s life? That’s the chemical addiction talking.

        Also, Bliss, at times it felt WORSE. Like two months in, I was feeling like I had turned a corner. I tested myself by playing the songs that reminded me of him, and I felt nothing! Until the next day. After that, I had a week of just awful longing for him. Reading stuff HG posts can trigger that too, but it’s different. Its a reality check.

        For me, it got worse before it got better. He’s still not out of my head, but it’s because I’m still obsessed with understanding. The addiction is out of my body though. Time really is the key. You can do this. Just post here when you want to reach out to him.

        “It’s always darkest before the dawn…. and it’s hard to dance with a devil on your back, so shake it off.” (Florence and the Machine)

      5. ANK says:


        Thank you.

        Yes kick in the guts is another way to describe it. I can understand those thoughts thinking you might be wrong, but I think it is more because of the longing of the illusory golden period and therefore you wish to give him the benefit of the doubt, and also you are probably feeling that some contact is better than no contact, or having him on his terms is better than not at all.

        I think hoe I am feeling and then think about his wife. How much worse if all must be for her.

        Glad you were able to get past the pain. I am hoping my 3 week break spending time to help my mum recuperate from surgery will keep me busy and my thoughts off him.

    3. ANK says:


      Oh yes I’m sure he is loving having attention from all his sources, whether they are IPPs, DLS or IPSS. Not to mention the power from being able to seduce, especially his current married IPPS.

      I feel that when I have texted in the past, he has just replied to appear to be nice, and to have the opportunity to hoover – keep the door open for sex. Well he can go fuck himself. I’m getting some anger out there.

  3. ng27 says:


    I wanted to reply to your comment, but had to start a new thread. Thank you for saying I have courage. Thank you for all of your kind words. I think the most difficult thing about getting through this time in my life is that none of my circle of friends or family understands the underlying addiction to the pain. Nor the intensity of the confusion they leave us with.
    When I told a friend I ran into him after five months of no contact and saw where he now works, her reaction was…well we are going there on a regular basis so he can see how great you are!!!

    Thanks, but no thanks. Seeing him sets me back. I have a physical reaction, I start to shake. If I could move to a new town far from here I would.

    1. ANK says:


      That’s how I have been affected to.Way back in February seeing him resulted in a panic attack. It’s

      The last two I bumped into I have ended up shaking.

      Unclear as to why that is happening, but obviously it is causing anxiety.

      Physically avoiding them is the best thing to do.

      1. superxena says:

        Hello ANK!
        Excuse me if I interfere with you communication with NG27 but I think we are talking about the same thing. Psychology is not my field of expertise but I do recognise the symptoms of anxiety you are referring to : part of it is the addiction and part of it are symptoms of C-PTSD that arise as a result of continuing abuse. If you would like to know how this addiction is created by the narcissist and its effect on you I recommend strongly HG’s book Exorcism. There you will find as well how to fight and get rid from the addiction,,,step by step. That was one of the books that helped me the most!,

        1. ng27 says:

          I am absolutely going to get that book. The shaking reaction started back when we were still seeing each other. Some times I couldn’t stop even in his presence, as if my body could sense the lies as danger. One more thing he can use to say, see? She really is crazy!

          1. superxena says:

            Hello ng27! Yes do it! You will find it fascinating and helpful. Those symptoms you are describing could be related to C-PTSD( good to consult a therapist specialized in this matter) and the addiction.
            See your entangelment with the narcissist as a “sickness”: once you know how you got infected and which disease you are fighting with then you can find the right medicine. That is exactly what the book is about. I kind of have this book printed on my forehead….

          2. ng27 says:

            Superxena, My book just arrived!
            Please tell me, how long has it been since you went no contact? I know our recoveries and healing all happen on our own time frames, I am just curious, as I need to cling to hope that I will get through this. Keep feeling like I take one step ahead, and then two steps back…

          3. superxena says:

            Hello ng 27

            That is great! How far have you come with Exorcism? You will find it very helpful. The practical examples given on the book are very useful!!!
            I have been No Contact for 17 months. 6 years of “formal” relationship. What you are going through is part of the “normal” process…ups and downs..but you will make it.Just keep on reading,learning,participating and asking here. Don’t give up!!!!

          4. ng27 says:

            I truly appreciate all of your support and comments. I look back at prior relationships and it seems as though I am drawn to this type of person. I need to figure out why. I know I am a “fixer”, and “empathy” a “nurturer”. I don’t want to give up on those qualities, and I don’t want to give up hope that I can let go of the thoughts of the golden period that haunt me. Logic simply does not prevail in these situations. The head and heart do not align.

          5. SuperXena says:

            Hello ng27,
            Your welcome! When I read your comment I felt like you think you have done something wrong? It is not your fault and nothing is wrong with you. You should see your empathetic traits as an asset…you just have to know how to protect them and who you share your feelings with.
            I do not how many narcissists you have had in your life but I have learned something here ( and from my own experience looking at it now in retrospect) that might help you:
            YOU are not drawn to them,THEY are drawn to you due mainly to your empathetic traits ( among other things ) which unfortunately make you an easy prey.Once you are spotted by them ( they have like a radar for detecting people they want to seduce) they will try to draw you to them showing a “false” self and mirroring you. If you now know ( by learning) how to spot them: even though they try to draw you to them ( with a façade) you can keep them away.
            There are always going to be narcissists around you : professionally,family,”friends” , relationships. But now you have the knowledge to spot them and protect yourself..

            Yes, the Golden Period is hard to forget but can you try something like this?:for every single good memory of the golden period block it out with one abusive behaviour of him.Perhaps that helps, it did to me!

          6. ng27 says:

            You’re right, a lot of times I do think I’m at fault. I have glimmers of time when I see reality that he is damaged. But, for the most part I feel like I am the one who allowed him into my life and then did something to push him away. Too many of my relationships ended that way to make me question myself as the problem.

            I guess that’s the effect of.emotional abuse. I just want to be able to get out of this spiral of confusion and self doubt. I’m so tired of being sad.

          7. SuperXena says:

            Hello ng27,
            I wish I could help you more! Psychology is not my field of expertise but it seems that you have C-PTSD symptoms as a consequence of repeated and prolonged psychological abuse. You shouldn’t let this “sadness” go deeper. Have you considered attending therapy with a professional psychologist for helping you with these symptoms?

          8. SuperXena says:

            Hello again ng27…. Now that I count them is more precisely 19 months No Contact….

          9. ng27 says:

            Bless your heart 19 months. Good for you! May that devil never cross your path again!

          10. SuperXena says:

            Ha,ha ! You made me laugh ng27! Thank you for your kind wishes concerning “that devil”. And yes, it feels good 19 months of No Contact …
            Best wishes!

          11. superxena says:

            Ng27… Forgot to comment..yes..they “make you feel crazy and then they want to show that you are crazy…that is what they want..to make you believe it and/or to present you as the crazy one as part of a smearing campaign preparing devaluation/dis-engagement…

          12. ANK says:


            Yes for me too. We were still seeing each other and I was fine when he was with me, but after I hadn’t heard form him for a while and then bumped into him I would end up shaking like a leaf. So something to do with abandonment/rejection perhaps in my case? causing anxiety and a physical response.

            I have read that emotional pain activates the same pathways in the brain as physical pain.

          13. ng27 says:

            I have also read the same about the silent treatment. That was literally killing me. He was obsessed with communicating with me for 3 years and then stopped abruptly. I came to feel like a stalker because I would have a physical reaction when I wouldn’t hear from him.

            I think I may just have had a break through because reading what I just wrote made me laugh out loud…if you could SEE this loser! OMG! What the heck is wrong with me??? I cannot wait to get the copy of the book Superxena suggested…its on its way. 🙂

        2. ANK says:


          Not at all, I don’t consider it interfering or interloping It’s always good to hear from others.

          I bought Exorcism a while ago along with other books of HG’s and have just started to read it. I think I am at a stage now where I recognise that I need to get all thoughts of him out of my head.

          As you say step by step. And with time.

          Thank you.

          1. superxena says:

            Your welcome ANK. Great news that you bought Exorcism. You will find it very useful,specially the part that speaks about changing your mind set with different practical examples of how you can ” block ” the memories fighting back the feelings!!
            Good luck with the reading!!
            Best wishes

    2. superxena says:

      Hello NG27
      Your welcome !
      You do have courage and if by writing and expressing how you feel here gives you even more strength..keep on doing it.
      It is amazing how this site has also turned to be an incredible and unique support network for those who have been submitted to abuse.
      And you are absolutely right: only those who have gone through this know how it feels. It is very important to get validation and understanding of what you have gone through. I understand as well that friends do not really understand you because they do not really know about it. That is why this site is the only forum( according to me) that gives you both the knowledge through education and a platform that serves as a support network. You will find that with time, both elements ( knowledge and support) are the key elements to help you through this!I
      if you haven’t read the book Exorcism..you should read it. There you can find (among many other useful things) why you feel like that and what to do to stop it!

      Avoid attending to places where he might be!!! Stay away from him!!!
      Best wishes!

    3. Bliss says:

      So it’s not just me who trembles/quivers in his presence! What are these things!? I think perhaps they’re just so predatory we can sense it. I bumped into him after my first escape ages ago and my friends commented that I was white as a ghost and couldn’t stop shaking. I don’t even remember any of that. I just remember his big predatory smile and embrace, he just chatted like nothing has changed. Later that week I went back to him.

      Ng27, so with that I agree you should avoid him at all cost. We will undoubtedly be drawn back. I’m not doing well at all myself and fight the urge to contact him on a hourly basis, but avoiding him in person is the one thing I know I should do and in fact I cancelled the last few arrangements we had some time ago and then again and again (that ignited his fury and hence the discard). Whether I manage to stay away for good or not is another matter. Been reading your posts and just wanted to say I really know how you feel.

      1. ANK says:

        Hey Bliss,

        Sorry to hear that you’re not doing well. But good for you for cancelling to meet with him.

        I couldn’t help myself contacting him, especially knowing he was texting the new supply all the time.a few weeks ago, but now I have got past that urge and do not actively text. I also refused his suggestion to meet.

        I guess the more you stay away and as more time passes, the more you detach. Easier said than done, and some days you go right back down and the pain resurfaces.

        Stay strong.

      2. ng27 says:

        Bliss, I have to say that having written and gotten feedback on this site for the past few days…I have been feeling really good. It is helping to know that people like you have an empathetic ear simply because “you know”.
        He has not hoovered me at all since the day I walked away…but I had tried to go no contact a number of times…and this time, my daughters were experiencing health problems. His reaction was that I was being dramatic. Funny, he treated me so badly and I kept going back for more, but when it came to a comment about my children…THAT was the final straw for me. DRAMATIC???? ha. He is the biggest drama queen I’ve ever known.
        Please try to be strong. Don’t waste one more minute with him. It takes so long to get over them! The faster you remove yourself, the faster you will be on the road to recovery. xox

      3. Bliss says:

        Thanks, ANK. I wish I was stronger. Texting is my weakness, so easily done and satisfies my craving right away. I’ve had the pain increase daily at the moment. The first month was actually easy compared to now. I’m getting complete silent treatment or discard now so this is my chance to get over him.

        Same for you, don’t meet him and stay strong. Glad you’ve got past the urge to. I know just what you mean about their new prey I get depressed when I think of him getting all excited texting and meeting up with his new conquests, as he did me. He always has many at one time even so. I wish I could just shake this feeling off.

        I stated in another post how much more I “love” him now, which is confusing. I love (the friendship kind) very easily and I still do everything for my other ex-narc out of that sort of love (not romantic love). But with the greater, it’s the whole passion/romance/unconditional love thing I feel for him and I just don’t get it! Thanks for the encouragement as always.

        1. ANK says:


          With time you will become stronger.

          I totally get the texting – when I didn’t hear from him I use to get so worked up and feel awful, be in tears and then when a text from him arrived I would feel so much better, almost happy. But then I would think about it and of course conclude truthfully that he was didn’t really care about me, but was texting just keeping me hanging on.

          We become conditioned to receiving texts everyday, and then when that is taken away are left with the craving.

          You say that the pain for the first month wasn’t too bad but is worse now – for me it was bad when I found out about the new supply, but because I was till receiving texts and seeing him, it kind of eased. Then became worse with the gaps of silence and lack of texts. The pain then was bad and eased by receiving a text. Now there is a mixture of numbness and pain, however I don’t crave the texts from him anymore. Mainly because they are no from a genuine place, but fake.

          I think what is causing the most pain is that the new supply is on the receiving end of the texts and attention etc which were all once for me. with 100% certainty the things he will be saying in those texts will be the same sent to me during the golden period.

          It is very hard to shake the feeling, but can be done with a change in thought processes.

          You say you love him more now – perhaps it is because you want to mend the broken person he is. That’s what empaths want to do. I have a narcissistic sister in law whom I often felt some love for, despite the terrible things she did.

          There are those of us that keep giving the benefit of the doubt, and want to see the good in people, want to give love and don’t ask for anything in return.

          1. ng27 says:

            The physical addiction, and the calm you feel after receiving that longed for text are so real it’s frightening.

            And they know it is.

          2. ANK says:

            The craving is strong today 😖. Was getting texts once in the week. Not heard from him. Triggered anxiety. For a millisecond was tempted to text him, but I haven’t and am resisting. Reading Exorcism instead.

          3. ng27 says:

            Good choice! I know it’s hard. Let the fact that you resisted your urge to text, empower you!

          4. ANK says:

            Yes, now I just need to work on not thinking about him! That’s much harder 😥

          5. Yolo says:


            Woohoo!!! One minute at a time.😊It will change with each hurdle. Keep reading. Congrats, I failed in that area so many times. My texts were filled with hate and anger. Draining and very unproductive. Imagine the fuel he was getting and I was losing a piece of me each time.

          6. ANK says:


            Thank you. I fell apart a little earlier. May be because it feels like I have lost him/will lose him totally, even though I know that’s the best thing. Believe me I have rehearsed those hate filled texts in my mind several times but never sent them for fear of losing him and pushing him away. That’s how fucked up my thinking has been.

            I can imagine how exhausting it must have been for you, channeling the feelings through texts. And I bet the responses, if you got them were less satisfactory and did little to make you feel better.

          7. Yolo says:


            I received temporary satisfaction. But, it didn’t resolve anything. His responses were always everyone is laughing at you. Let me send this to your mother.

            So, I set up a contact on my phone a disconnected phone number and ahole as the contact so if and when I get the urge I send to the faux number. Crazy, I know😊 it satisfied the craving.😊 Walking and listening to music helps me too. Your future possibilities are endless. Hang in there😊

          8. ANK says:

            Sounds like a real wanker Yolo.

          9. Yolo says:


            I read this awhile back. I thought i would share. I am open a little eccentric, weird, and crazy at times.

            Pay attention to whom you share your intimate energy with. Intimacy at this level intertwines your aural energy with the aural energy of the other person. These powerful connections, regardless of how insignificant you think they are, leave spiritual debris, particularly within people who do not practice any type of cleansing, physical, emotional or otherwise. The more you interact intimately with someone, the deeper the connection and the more of their aura is intertwined with yours. Imagine the confused aura of someone who sleeps with multiple people and carries around these multiple energies? What they may not realize is that others can feel that energy which can repel positive energy and attract negative energy into your life.

            “I always say, never sleep with someone you wouldn’t want to be” – Lisa Chase 

            There’s several ways to help cleanse your aura.

            1. Warm bath with epsom salt.
            2. 15 minutes of Sun
            3. Meditation
            4. The ocean breeze

            Also, Google other methods.😊 It’s worth trying,i feel more at peace and a real sense of joy at times.

          10. ANK says:

            Thank you very much Yolo for sharing that. It’s very interesting and something I will be reading again and again.

            I took an Epsom salt bath the other weekend!


          11. ng27 says:

            Since I’ve gone NC, I’ve taken to writing him texts when I can no longer simply keep my thoughts in my head…but instead of actually sending them to him…I write them in the memo app on my phone. I tried to go NC so many times, and went back, and things got better and then worse each time…this time (thank God) he has no hovered me at all. He is done with me. I still have a lot of things to say to him…they are all in the Memo app. Better there than lost on deaf ears.

          12. ANK says:

            That’s a good coping mechanism NG27.

            He has been in my dreams that last to nights., maybe because I’m thinking too much about him.

      4. Bliss says:

        Ng27, every time I really needed my narc’s support, he would have an excuse and abandoned me, or he would start an argument, adding to my stress and it’s always my fault so I had the added pressure of then beggimg him for forgiveness. They will never be there for us. Yet we love them!

        Good job, ANK! Onwards and upwards hopefully! Thank you for such kind words. I wish I had seen this before.. because… Major disaster basically! 😁 I had a few bad rows with my children’s dad (narc too). Then proceeded to contact the narc-of-my-life… many times!! It’s just not my week.

        He conditioned me in the past to always go straight to him whenever I had problems with my ex-husband. So I am ashamed to say I have been contacting him (many times) after each row. All I’ve had in return is of course silence as I’ve been discarded. I resorted to pleading and still nothing. Ugh! I hate myself!

        Silent treatment normally spells the end of a relationship/friendship for me. But he has now managed to beat the one and only thing I don’t forgive people over. I’m not even angry with him. Just…how?! Honestly… Unbelievable what narcs do to our brains and principles.

        So all I can say is stay strong and don’t do what I did. It sounds like you still get the random responses, unlike me, I’ve been totally discarded, having said that, it’s only been a few days since his last token string-you-along text. Just need to remember how awful it feels whether if we get a response or not! Both unfavourable.

        Oh yes, I still remember the elation whenever he texted back but that feelings just doesn’t last.

        On a more positive note, I have started to feel a lot happier, which is odd because I am hurting, but it’s like I’m finally able to move on because he’s not replying at all. It’s beginning to feel a little like he never really existed. Kind of him to discard me and allow me to move on! 😉 (Although this is probably where HG corrects me by saying it’s just a dis-engagement. Gosh, it is harder to type!)

        Thanks for such amazing support and I must get Exorcism too! xx

        1. ANK says:

          No need to be ashamed Bliss, we’ve all been there. I certainly have!
          And please don’t hate yourself. They are the ones that need to be hated.

          They do mess with our brains and principles – once upon a time i would never have contemplated seeing a married man.

          It’s been more than a week since he texted so I think this is it – I don’t expect any more. Any any way if he does, it is not with genuine concern about me so….

          It’s his birthday next Monday. I am going to ignore that fact. Wonder if he will feel aggrieved? Probably not as I’m sure he will be getting birthday fuel from the IPPS.

      5. Bliss says:

        ANK, don’t worry about losing him. We never had them in the first place.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Very valid point.

        2. ANK says:

          Very true Bliss.

          Remind me of when I found out about the new supply and told him if he wants to be with her then go, and he said he wasn’t with anyone.

      6. Narc affair says:

        Ank…wow your posts really sum up how i feel after i disengage and go nc. It scares me also how empty and depressed i feel when we dont text or talk. Its like hg described a howling barren wilderness and food tastes like ash. I have no interest in anything. Then when that text comes in its like total relief washes over and you feel whole again. I never contact him until he contacts me out of anger and fear of rejection. I think he senses i wont either so he eventually gets a hold of me usually within a day or so. The longest ive gone nc was a week and id told him never to contact me again. It was the most difficult but an observation during that time is i had bouts of strength where i actually started enjoying life without the narc. They were very brief tho followed by terrible panic attacks and deep depression. Some things i enjoyed during this brief disengagement were getting more sleep. Our routine for the past 6 yrs i get 5 hrs a night. Its tiring but im afraid to change it for fear of upsetting him and losing him. Another was relief from the highs and lows. At first its unsettling but the normal slowly isnt boring but comforting if that makes sense. I had him blocked pretty much except email and knowing thered be no msgs was uncomfortable at first but became respite and detoxing.
        When he emailed by day 7 i was relieved but a part of me didnt want to give up what i was gaining by being nc. I was feeling independence slowly and it felt good. This is why its imperitive to block!! If you go nc and can go fully nc block them fully so you can get over the hurdles without their interference. I think i read 90 days to detox.
        I dont trust myself and when/if i call it quits ill have to block fully otherwise its futile bc id go back.

        1. ANK says:


          Yes I’ve lost my appetite too. I’m determined not to contact him but at the same time not hearing from him makes me feel so desolate, so I know exactly where you are coming from. You say ‘i had bouts of strength where i actually started enjoying life without the narc. They were very brief tho followed by terrible panic attacks and deep depression.’ That’s me at the moment. The pain upon waking up is the worst. It’s hard to describe the sensation – a kind of emptiness with gnawing, and wishing I could have just continued sleeping and sleeping.

          When someone close dies you grieve for them. They say you go through a grieving process when a relationships breaks. When a person dies you know they aren’t coming back, and although you are in pain from that loss, the pain here caused is something else.

          Like you I have no interest in anything – friends and family say find a hobby, go out, meet new people. But its not easy. I’m trying to go out with friends as when I can to keep my self occupied.

          He hasn’t contacted me out of fear or rejection. As it has been more than a week this time, I don’t think he will contact me at all now. I’ve made it easy for him by not ranting and raving (no fuel). He has new supply.

          Does your narc have other supply? I can’t remember if you said.

  4. lynnyrn says:

    HG, I have a question,

    Oh my god, I’m the Dirty Little Secret, IPSS, with the exception of dirty hotel rooms and back seats. That’s it. That has got to be it, for over a year. Beautiful hotels, long stays at his home, but I’ve never met anyone, I never even asked. I only have a placement of being a fb friend.

    This is exhausting; I don’t think revelations with someone who has already broken my heart.

    HG, I’ve got to know. Are these researched definitions, or ones you have identified on your own experience. Is this all Black and White with no grey? How have I learned about narcissism before and never heard of these details, only extremes between mild and severe cases, criminals, etc.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Hello Lynnyrn, the definitions are mine arising from my own extensive experiences and observations. I have created this lexicon to afford a more effective communication of how my kind thinks and behaves.

  5. Angelic says:

    so it seems that the best position to be in is the Dirty little Secret

    1. ng27 says:

      Trust me, there is NO good position. Better or worse.

      1. ANK says:

        Totally agree.

  6. Gabrielle says:

    I will admit that I feel like I am the “dirty little secret”. He’s married with a family and no one in his life knows I exist. Add in the fact that I am 850 miles away and it all makes sense now. After a year of this I think I have been discarded for the final time. But who knows. It’s only been a month of no contact right now but it’s a record so far (the last record was 3 weeks). I am wondering if I will ever be in the clear in terms of escape. Of course I am tormented at the moment because I am still in love with the “illusion”. It is all still so raw. The fact that I secretly hope for a hoover just makes me feel so much more pathetic. Why is it so damn hard to let go?

    1. ng27 says:

      Because we have allowed ourselves to be brainwashed to believe we will eventually be the chosen one.

      1. ANK says:

        Agree with you ng27. They deceived us into thinking we were more to them than a bit on the side with their lies and future-faking. One minute he is saying he can’t give me more, and the next minute he is talking about marriage, and then when I find out he has a new source that he has been working on after leaving his wife, he is saying he can’t give me what I want, but still want to carry one seeing me.

        1. ng27 says:

          The pain is unbearable, but I have to hope that someday it will lessen and that I will wake up and he won’t be the first thing on my mind.
          Don’t be a fool like I was, leave him. I wasted too many years on him and I lost my home and my family is no longer in tact bc of decisions I made for him.
          Please be strong and go no contact, save yourself.

          1. ANK says:

            ng27, I’m sorry that you lost your home and family over him. The devastation they cause without a conscience is unbelievable. It leads me to believe that such people have bad wiring in their brains, and thus they will never change.

            He has hoovered, thinks I will jump into bed with him. But I haven’t. His lying has put a block in my mind, I can no longer give him what I did in the past freely. But still I can’t let go. With time…. with time…. for you and me both……

          2. ng27 says:

            He’s wired badly, and obviously so am I. I’m working on that!

            I will put you in my prayers, this is the toughest time in my life. Please don’t go back to him. Block him as soon as possible. It only gets worse if you don’t bc you will keep hope alive.

          3. ANK says:

            Yep, I’m a sucker for punishment. Having a real hard time letting go.
            He last texted on Friday, and called. I wasn’t able to pick up the call but said I would call him later. I sent a text to say I was free but found out that he had blocked me. Probably with his new source and didn’t want her to get wind. Haven’t heard from him since Friday.

            Today I had to go to his office building to pick up a parcel. Was resisting the temptation to go and seen him. Couldn’t and walked to his office but heard him on the phone to the new source. I turned round and walked away. Still felt like a kick in the guts hearing him talking to her, making arrangements to pick her up at the end of the day. But then I remind myself that he is toying with her too and it’s not me that the problem.

            Must never visit him at work again. Ever.

          4. ng27 says:

            Ank, I am so sorry to hear that story. I can literally feel that gut wrenching pain you felt bc I’ve felt the same.

            I’m trying very hard to move on. Met a very nice man who is interested in me.

            But I cannot let go, still cannot sleep through the night, haven’t heard from him in seven weeks. Haven’t seen him since new years day.

            I’m going to go out with this new man to see where it goes, but I feel like I will always be stuck and blame myself for wanting too much when in reality all I wanted was our original relationship and conversations.

            So…much…wasted…time. I hate feeling so damaged.

          5. ANK says:


            I forgot my manners before – thank you for putting me in your prayers, I will do the same for you x.

            You say you want the original relationship back, but would it be the same knowing what you know and knowing what he is?

            I stupidly told Narchole I would have been happy to carry on as the other woman had he stayed with his wife. But I just couldn’t deal with the fact that he had started seeing someone else – a married woman at that. That makes me feel worthless and that’s when after reading HG’s writings I came to the conclusion that all I am/was to him is a DLS. All the texting and calling everyday is now to her – it makes me sad because that was once all for me, it makes me angry too that he can just switch from one to another so easily.

            I try to remind myself of his perfidy to make me see that he is a Narchole, a no good, lying cheat. May be you need to remind yourself of all his bad points to make you see you are better off without him. Easier said than done though, it works for a bit and then I go back to wanting what we had, feeling low because he has discarded me.

            Yes it is awful to feel so damaged – you soul ripped out….

            I hope you can get past stuck. I’m glad you have met a nice man. A good man is a start, and hopefully over time you can build a good relationship with him.

            I’m taking it in those 7 weeks that you have not heard from him you have not contacted him? If that’s the case well done.

          6. ng27 says:

            How are you doing?

          7. ANK says:

            Hi Ng27,
            I guess I’m ok. Not sure really. Better than before – not wanting to sleep and hide away as much from the pain of it all. Been going for counselling. Dont know if it’s helping or not. I’ve talked about the Narchole and other things. Cried at every single session.
            Feel angry with him. Not that he knows or cares.

            He was texting a lot before easter and during. I know it was because he wanted to see me for sex. Amd also because the other woman was probably not around due to school holidays etc.

            All his texts felt like he was grooming me.

            Stupid or not I did sleep with him. It was kind of like ‘well I’ll just take what I can from you’. Use him like he’s used me. I knew he would text as much after and I was right. His last text was have a good day tomorrow and have a lovely weekend. Dismissive.
            Weekends are the worst. I get all depressed on a Friday evening. My mind is always thinking about him. Goung from hating him to wanting him.
            The fact that he cannot own up or be honest is what eats me up.

            How are things with you?

          8. ng27 says:

            Feeling worse than ever. Trying so hard to move forward knowing life is short. How screwed up am I that such a lying bastard has a hold on my thoughts.
            I hope that you are fairing better than I am. So many people on this site seem to find a way to cope. I hope you are one of them!

          9. ANK says:


            Sending you a virtual hug. I’m sorry you are feeling worse.

            You’re not screwed up any more than others on here who are feeling as you do.

            Narchole is always in my thoughts. In fact he dominates them – when I wake up, last thing at night, during the day. Round and round in my head.

            A few weeks ago he was off work. He didn’t tell me. I didn’t hear form him for nearly a week and then it was a lame excuse, saying that I was going to be annoyed with him as he hadn’t texted in a week, but he had been off, he had no excuse, and how was my week if i was till talking to him. I just replied that I had assumed he was busy texting his new interest and whoever else he was pursuing. Of course he denied it. Lying shit.

            He doesn’t text much now, may be once a week. He is always busy WhatsApping. I don’t text him. I doubt if he is missing me. He has his exciting new toy to play with

            I bumped into him a couple of week ago. Seeing made me feel panicked. But his seeing me triggered texts from him. He suggested that may be we could so something this Sunday gone.I said maybe. Then I thought to myself did I really want to spend time with him when all he probably wants to do is shag and then he will constantly be looking at his phone, pretending to text his mates, when in fact texting her. Constant lies.

            Well I didn’t want that and so when he texted about Sunday again. I said I was busy. A small inner victory!

            But I still feel the pain. It hits me when I wake up in the morning. So he still has a hold me as well you see. We just have to hope that it will ease. And as Superxena says, coming on here, you can get a lot of support and learn from everyone else’s experience which may must help to let go. We just have to give it time, and hopefully the pain will fade away.

            I know for me being on here and reading and getting responses from everyone is helpful. People on here understand. So whenever you feel shit, just post.

            Are you still seeing the new man?

          10. Yolo says:


            Sorry to read you are not doing well. It doesn’t get better until you go full no contact. He’s going to stay on your mind morning, day, and night.

            Time can not heal your wounds if you are still engaging with the narc. It doesn’t happen overnight but you have to release yourself from that prisioners/ victim mindset.

            ” Progress is impossible without change, and those who cannot change their minds cannot change anything.”George Bernard Shaw”

            Life isn’t about finding yourself. Life is about creating yourself.

            “The people who get on in this world are the people who get up and look for the circumstances they want and if they can’t find them, make them.” George Bernard Shaw”

            Above are 2 partial quotes from Bernard Shaw.

            Sometimes, we have to put on our big girl bloomers and say this is going to stop here, today, and now. Trust its so much better on the other side but you cant their if you remain and fail to change.

            There’s a scripture I dont know it off hand but it says a person is like a dog that keeps going back to his own vomit. Gross we do the same when we keeo going back to the person that hurt us, he’s never going to change never. But, you can and I believe you will, believe in yourself.

            Peace and Blessings

          11. ng27 says:

            You are so right, I feel for ANK, we all deserve a peaceful existence. They don’t give us peace.

          12. Yolo says:

            Never, it’s all an illusion even during the golden period. Most of us feel that nudging feeling albeit, this feels to good to be true or know something just isn’t right. Never peace NEVER. I hope you are progressing and know it does get better. You may not be the same but it gets better.

            What we don’t get love as a child from those that were meant to love and protect us. Can be much more painful as adults. We are looking for other’s to give us what we perceive as love.

            We fail or they fail us we have no real examples until we experience the love of God. He’s going to right their wrongs and make it easier. Because the people that were supposed to failed us.

            Wishing you true joy and peace.

          13. ANK says:


            I had my counselling session yesterday and was too emotionally exhausted to be able to reply to various post.

            What I am learning from the sessions is that although I was loved as a child maybe it wasn’t demonstrated to me and i didn’t get enough affection. My childhood and most of my adult life has been vary lonely.

            I realise that as an adult I am seeking that affection, physical hugs and love, care etc.

            Of course narcs use this need to their advantage and we think we are being loved and cared for and then all of sudden it is taken away and the brutality of the illusion is revealed, leaving us reeling.

            Ultimately the only one who is going to love us and care for us is ourselves.

          14. Yolo says:


            For some the hardest part is loving ourselves, especially after dealing with a disordered person. The shame, hurt, fear, and unworthiness we feel it will take time to shed those feelings.

            It’s exhausting but we are worth it, it more exhausting giving our love to a wall (narc) expecting it to love us back.😊

            Continuing to invest in self will yield better results. All your work will pay off, and allow those that truly love you to reap the rewards.

            You are much more stronger than you feel. 💪

          15. ANK says:

            Truth be told, Yolo, I never loved myself, or felt good enough throughout my entire life. And yes after dealing with a narc all these feelings have been brought to the surface with a vengeance, leaving me feeling unworthy, worthless, questioning what is wrong with me that I was rejected, betrayed etc.

            I am telling myself that HE is unworthy of ME, he doesn’t deserve my love and whilst the pain is still there, I am moving slowly in the right direction. The direction I wish him to take is a long walk of short plank!

          16. Yolo says:

            Short plank and fall into the deepest part of the ocean😊 Ank, I totally understand how to feel unworthy and have allowed the negative thoughts of what is wrong with me play in my head daily. Those thoughts are unhealthy and are designed to keep us stuck. I have said the narc stole /conned me into caring for them. I recognize now whats giving so freely is not considered theft we are quick to donate/ give things away that we deem no longer have value. As long as we dont recognize our true value how priceless we are neither will others.

            We have to know that we are worthy, we have value, not matter what our mind tries to us we must reverse those thoughts. We have areas of weakness as well as strengths we may not be able to eliminate all of our weakness. But we can focus on our strengths and build from there.

            We have to become our own projects, we cant help/ fix a narc or anyone else. But we can invest in self it doesnt have to be monetary.

            One day at a time, choose to wake with positive thoughts of loving yourself and sowing that same love back in the universe.

            Also,,our phones allow to block calls and text messages for those that may struggle with feeling the need to respond. You will never get the message.

            I believe in you and everyone else on here thats seeking healing and turning their pain into purpose.

            I get excited just thinking of the thousands of young people we can save from these predators.
            The suicidal rates amongst youth is increasing we have the knowledge and its our responsibility to use our weapons to help them. Everyone will not be receptive but the seeds are planted.

            Sorry, hun, I can go on and on.

            You can do it, it will get better. Try yoga, I especially enjoy bikram yoga the room is set to 102 degrees and after 90 minutes all the toxins, and negative energy just seems to come.

            Until, the next glass of Pinot😊

            Peace and Blessings⚘

          17. ANK says:


            Thank you for your words and providing clarity.

            Yes I definitely need to work on my mindset and banish thoughts of him, be done with the anger that he just cast me aside, and say ‘Fuck you, I’m worth more and deserve better’ and carry my head high.

            As you say he will never change, and will constantly be looking for supply to get his hit from the thrill of the chase and seduction, and of course the sex, and is not capable of genuine love and care.

            It is for me to make that conscious decision to no longer be manipulated and sucked into his games for power and control.

            Being here, hearing of everyone else’s experience, reading HG’s work and his responses to posts helps make things clearer, and forces home the truth that narcs will always be narcs. As NG27 said, friends and family don’t understand, but those posting on here do. I am grateful for all the support and encouragement.

          18. Yolo says:

            Congrats on your decision to move forward. Exorcism will provide with tips to help with cognitive dissonance you maybe experiencing.

            You can beat this, continuing reading and visiting the blog take in what you need and release what you don’t need😊 You will get to a place where you can build healthier boundaries to protect yourself. We all slip, fall and mess up. But, true power is admitting our mistakes dusting ourselves and getting back up.

            I pray your future days will be much greater than you your latter. There’s purpose in your pain and you will find it.

            Now give yourself a big hug, smile, and remind yourself daily that you love You..❤

          19. ANK says:

            Thanks Yolo,

            you’re very sweet.

            I just need to get rid of this feeling of panic and dread and I don’t know what else it is, when I wake up in the mornings.

            I’m reading hear and on Quora as well, which is a good reminder of how better off I am without the manipulative Narchole and to stay away.

            Good wishes to you.

          20. ng27 says:

            No not seeing him I am undateable at this point, focusing on myself until I can open my heart again.

          21. ANK says:

            Good NG27.

            You need to put you first. I know it seems like you have to find all the broken pieces of your heart and put them all back together again.

            I don’t know if my heart will ever be whole again.

          22. ng27 says:

            ANK, mine might never be whole again…but it will never be crushed again either. I know what to look for now, my eyes are wide open. A failed relationship is normal, but this is pure evil.

        2. ng27 says:

          I just saw this response, like I’m reading a page from my own book! Maybe you know the same man! 🙁

          1. ANK says:

            Hi NG27,

            Think this reply was to me?

            They are all the same underneath it.

      2. ANK says:


        I totally understand your desire to be hoovered. It IS hard to let go. Time is the only thing that will help. And going NC, but I failed to do that miserably.

        It is hard to reconcile the fact that you know what lying cheating shits they are with still being in love with the illusion. You feel totally torn.

        You want them to disappear out of your life forever but want them in it at the same time The pain either way is immense.

      3. superxena says:

        Hello ng27!
        I just wanted to say that just by having the courage to write here how you feel and being able to express it in words is ( according to me) a first sign of progress and denotes a huge amount of courage from your side!

        I am sure that many here feel the way you feel now although they do not express it. You will find as well ways to cope with it! Your story is perhaps different than mine..but I can assure you that you will feel better with time by reading ,learning and participating here. By the way:have you read any of HG’s books? They are extremely helpful and increase the understanding of the articles posted here!! I hope you are feeling better today..l

  7. Hope says:

    I’m so thankful for this site. I’ve been preparing my mind and heart for what my gut has been telling me about who he really is. I’d received a text obviously meant for another. I didn’t respond. He left a voice message, giving an answer to at whom it was directed and why. I didn’t respond until hours later, letting him know he shouldn’t have to deal with my insecurity. That I’m bad for him, and hindering his life by not being able to trust. He answered telling me to use what he’d taught me as counselor to get through tough times, or never contact him. I want to take this opportunity to leave. I know myself though, I still want him to know love. I have this site and a few others for reminders of what it really is. An illusion.
    I have been programmed from an early age to seek attachment from places that dole it out in intermittent fashion. Make it stop.

  8. MTS says:

    What is his aim with the hacking attempt hoovers? Does he expect me to contact him?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      The gathering of information and if you notice it is being done it may prompt you to contact him to ask him what he is doing, this the hoover occurs.

      1. MTS says:

        But why doesn’t he contact me directly? I am way too convenient for him as for location..

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Possible concerns about wounding may be one reason.

          1. MTS says:

            That’s highly likely. He knows I know too much. That’s why I don’t think I will get a more direct one… Or can your kind put the possible wounding to the side to get good quality fuel?

          2. HG Tudor says:

            Greaters tend to approach it that way.

  9. Insatiable Learner says:

    Hi HG. Hope you are well. I confess like many others I was worried about you yesterday when there was no activity. I am glad you are ok. 🙂 Is my question still in the queue to be answered? Thank you!

  10. ng27 says:

    I lived as the DLS for six years, was discarded as soon as his wife kicked him out. I stayed bc it worked in my situation, I didn’t realize I was the DLS, and the promise of our future was so believable. I wasted all those years on someone who isn’t worth the gum stuck to the bottom of my shoe, and yet now I’m torn to pieces and can’t sleep or function properly. All the while, he is on top of his game and I will never hear from him again. No hoovering here, he is relieved to know his reputation remains untarnished.
    He told me the first week I met him, maybe I’m the devil.
    If anyone tells you that…believe them. Run fast. Run far.

    1. Entertainment says:

      You didn’t realize you were the dirty little secret and he was married and with his. Who/ what did you think you were?

      1. ng27 says:

        If I read my own story I would ask the same question you just did. The way things evolved and who I was before I met him, made me think we had a future. I deserve criticism, trust me, I was as dumb as a stump. I never sleep knowing the choices I made and how wrong they were.

        1. Entertainment says:

          I didn’t mean to sound critical, we all have succumb to our selfish desires and allowed it to override logic. The”I just realized I was his dls” was confusing.

          If you don’t mind answering, did he tell you in advance he was married or did you find out after you were already sucked in?

          We aren’t dumb or stupid, they commit fraud and manipulation having no idea people could be so evil.

    2. NarcAngel says:

      Not sleeping ovet past choices serves no one. Recognition of what really occurred and being armed while moving forward does. Dont look at it as him taking 6 years. Look at it as you not giving him any more. Not sleeping over things has never once changed the past. If youre going to lose sleep let it be over the prospect of you taking control of your own life now.

    3. Insatiable Learner says:

      Ng27, you first said you walked away then that you were discarded. I am confused. What actually happened? If you don’t mind me asking. By the way, one month of not hearing from him does not mean anything. It’s not long at all. Hope you are hanging in there. I understand it’s rough.

  11. Becoming Observant says:

    This is the article I needed. The other articles make me see how lucky I am NOT to have been #1. This one breaks down the “seconds” into categories, and it makes a lot more sense.

    I fulfilled part of his public facade (helping charitable, community-minded woman with pointers/advice, on occasion).

    It did not fully click in my mind that there was something really wrong with him until I saw him hitting on a too-young “new” female while in the presence of multiple women who fell into his “IP” sphere. It made me ask, “Who does that?” You have so many women, yet always collecting more, no number is too great… I already knew I was done, but this was the moment I stopped grieving over my mistake in tolerating him; at this point, I realized there was something really atypical in his personality.

    Even though I was only the “dirty secret”, he went into a “dirty little secret rage of vengeance” when he realized I was beyond disinterested. I was revolted. I told him so, and that I wanted no involvement, and blocked him. He tampered with my sets at work repeatedly. He sent me threats and blackmail messages. He began accusing me of slander. He went so far as to feign powerful enough at our place of work to have me banned. At that point, I neatly forwarded all of those threats to HR.

    And then I was fired.

    1. Sunshine says:

      Whaaaat?! I hope you enlisted the services of an employment lawyer?

  12. Lauren says:

    Dear HG,

    Did you get my other post? It was long. I apologize for that. I had questions. I was just wondering if it got lost because I don’t see it posted. Thank you.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Hello Lauren, I did see it and then it disappeared so I am not sure what happened. I would point out that a post of that nature is better suited to a personal consultation.

      1. Lauren says:

        Hi HG,

        Okay, I understand. It was very long. I’ll think about it. Thank you, Mr. Tudor.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          No problem, that is the appropriate forum as there I am able to provide you with the detailed analysis within a time frame for you.

      2. Entertainment says:

        Responses like this will easily land you a spot right next to Simon Cowell.
        Here’s a dirty little secret ladies and gents H.G. will find true love when genetic science perfects the process of cloning.

      3. Sunshine says:

        Never mind email and telephone consultations, can I jump to the next level and hire you to squash my mid-range, victim passive-aggressive narc?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Ha ha we can discuss fees Sunshine!

          1. MLA - Clarece says:

            Yesssss! The latest and greatest option!

    2. Lauren says:

      Okay, HG.

  13. Lauren says:

    I apologize, HG. I typed my comment fast. So, Dear HG*

  14. Insatiable Learner says:

    Sorry, HG! Don’t mean to be impatient. Thank you for being there!

    1. HG Tudor says:


  15. Insatiable Learner says:

    Dear HG, I know there’s only one of you and multitudes of us looking for answers. If there’s any way you could answer the question I submitted here, it would mean a lot to me. Thank you!

    1. HG Tudor says:

      It is in hand IL, very busy days off blog at present.

  16. MTS says:

    Why do narcs stalk their ex?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      To hoover.

      1. MTS says:

        Would hacking attempts fall into this category as well?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Yes they would MTS.

    2. Entertainment says:

      Why do people stalk? You don’t have time be a person with npd to stalk or obsess they are much more resilient than we are.

      1. MTS says:

        True. But I still find it strange that he discarded me, told me that he can’t do this any more, wished me well, busy chasing his new supply and then he is the one stalking… Apparently I still don’t have the mindset of a narcissist.

  17. JDiamond says:

    HG, I was my ex narcopath girlfriend when we were 15 and he tracked me down at the age of 43 on fb through my sister . Long story short I thought this is it , my first love has found me again , it was fate. Long story short , he moved in with me , transferred his job to where I live in which is about 65 miles north from where he lived , and everything was wonderful … he asked me to marry him so we got engaged … I was never so happy in my life … until 10 months in , he started to treat me bad out of no where , disagreed or disliked when he liked before , silent treatments for no reason , he discarded me while I was at work and left me. But the night before he did he upset me because he sounded crazy saying he doesn’t feel the same for me , and that maybe he needs some time , but then he got nasty with me saying I can’t wait to leave here as if I did something to him , he would talk under his breath , gaslight me , etc …. found out the ring he gave me was fake , I thought because he moved away 65 miles up north with me and transferred his job and how happy he was that I was the one even his family thought so … it’s been a year and 8 months since he left and I still feel like it was a month ago …. I have ptsd and been told I seem cold … I feel dead inside … during Dec his ex sis in law tried to contact me insisting I give her a call like 3 times on messenger , giving me her number to call her but I never did because the only thing we had in common was him and we haven’t talked since I cut off everyone affiliated to him . My gut told me it was some type of Hoover but I don’t k ow for sure … I never called . I’ve read about 3 of your books in which are fascinating to me … part of me misses that pretend person that I still have a hard time wrapping g around my head , it was easy for him to get in cause he was my first as I was his at 15 … I never forgot him and he appears to be like you , the Greater , very intellectual , and charismatic … just feeling lost . I myself have drinking wine a lot more just to numb myself more … I just feel like a tornado ripped through my world and never to be the same …

  18. Entertainment says:

    HG, is that you in the picture? Nice, just as imagined. It will be our little secret. 😊

    1. Sunshine says:

      The pic looks like Danny Dyer

  19. Sarabella says:

    “I will just call it what it is …twisted fucked up shit! No one can ever please or satisfy a narc indefinitely. ”

    This is the absolute truth. I was horrified that he wanted to put me in this category. No way. Never. NO ONE EVER does that to me again as it had been done before in my life to me.

    So I made sure that some people he looked up to knew of us and that he had victimized me. I had found out many of his other dirty secrets from someone he tried to destroy. I made sure he knew I knew he is living in filth. I found out, he will ‘do anybody’. I also found out he has had lovely women. NO ONE stays. NO ONE is enough.

    Mona, I did the same at one point. I was relentless in my attacking him. At one point, he pitifully cried he could not take the stress anymore. WhatEVER!!!!! He couldn’t take the stress? Imagine what he put me through first. Cake eaters!!!!! Dish out what they cannot take? Cowards.

    So I was never his ‘dirty secret’. EVER. I was just ranked on his little sick ranking scale that he shuffles around as he works people. But anyone who knows me knows I am a beautiful, creative, intelligent and smart woman. It was HIS FAILURE to rank me that was the only problem and I started breaking away fast. He even later tried to pretend like he owed me. Telling me he told a friend he owes me for life for bailing him out but it’s all junk and lies. This one is hard for me to articulate what fuel he got out of telling a few people he owes me for life for lending him money. I told him once, he can pay me back that debt of the risk I took by blocking himself from my life and disappearing forever. That is how he can pay me back. And our debt will be clear. He never would do that. I guess refusing to do that was a way to get irritation fuel from me? But what kind of fuel did he get telling people he owed me? A false story about how good he is with his word? That he was trusted enough by someone to lend him money so he is a trustworthy person? Everyone who knows him knows he tried to steal that money by disappearing. I got the money back, but then he actually tried to regenerate a “pay back” by telling me he owed me. Is that like trying to recreate a bond arund the money?

    I caught on to the ‘dirty secret dynamic’ fast. The thing is, you actually CAN be well off, attractive, smart, creative and more and they will STILL be treated like you are a dirty secret. It has nothing to do with you and everything to do with what they are using you for. You are just led to believe you are somehow deficient and so you try harder and your self-esteem gets a beating. Its wrong thinking on the part of someone who was put in this position. It is about them and only them.

    1. Holy Reality says:

      They run scared from person to person …again and again from fear of exposure. Whether their smear campaign is successful or not. We and the people that truly know us get a small glimpse (the truth) into the fucked up world of a narcissist. Our “perspective” anyway. We loved the illusion, not the person. That person simply doesn’t exist. Sure, a fabricated custom designed facade just for us. Reflecting our goodness! All created from bits and pieces of everyone they’ve ever ensnared. It’s fucked up beyond comprehension! We can move forward and heal our broken bits. They as I have witnessed NEVER understand (with a lessor) has crashed and burned over and over. Life goes on …well for those of us that choose to accept the brutal reality of this abuse. We can and do love life again. And will never tolerate a fraction of this bullshit again for a millisecond!

      1. NarcAngel says:

        I find it interesting that Empaths only think its fucked up beyond comprehension after its exposed. Not that it was an over the top unicorn type fucked up fantasy at the time, and you had feelings it was off but ignored them. Nope, a love beyond all others and you only deserved it. And the best part is they still believe it exists out there. Now thats fucked up beyond comprehension because all subsequent romantic relationships will fail if thats your new standard. You were duped yes, but you failed yourself also when you thought something was off but bought in anyway. There is accountability on both sides. Stop giving Narcs all the power by being the victim and letting them believe their illusion was perfect. It wasnt. No wonder they believe theyre God.

        1. Entertainment says:

          On a lighter note.😊We do better when we know better. Most of us know better now. Please expend the energy and time we invested in narc on ourselves.
          I totally appreciate those of you who admits you want a hoover or you want him/her despite all you have learned. Be prepared for the outcome it will only be worse the next time around they hate desperation and view you as pathetic trash. Today is another pagan Holiday that’s designed to get people to spend money. It claims to promote love but I have seem several relationships ruined on the Love day.
          My hopes are we use this day to forgive ourselves and learn to love US and the people that love us and don’t continue to beat that dead horse.

          1. NarcAngel says:

            Im loving myself with some chocolate right now. Valentines….pffft….what can a man do for me that a hand-held appliance and some batteries cant?

          2. Entertainment says:


            Exactly, with the electronics devices they make today definitely no need for a man especially a Narc. Ohhh, and a little chocolate afterwards girl you are in heaven. Lol, and we can have snuggle time with our pillow. ,😍 With peace when we walk in the door at out. I love me some me.

      2. BraveHeart says:

        Love your words, HR!

      3. BraveHeart says:

        That last comment is intended for Holy Reality! No, I didn’t mistype HG 🙂

    2. jarwithaheavylid says:

      Nothing is free with a narc. No doubt he told himself he would pay you back to humour you but now he honestly believes you owe him a favour because he did you one by paying you back! On top of that, he figures money is the connection to you so he’ll use that if he wants power over you – good or bad – you attend to him over it.

      Everyone is the narc’s dirty little secret, really.

  20. Insatiable Learner says:

    Hello, HG. I would be very much obliged if you could please answer this question. If DS asks for more and threatens to walk away but then immediately backtracks and falls back inline, remains adoring, etc., does the narcissist still see her as “good”? Would appreciate your answer very much!

    1. HG Tudor says:


      1. Insatiable Learner says:

        Thank you, HG!

    2. ng27 says:

      Is it less likely that a dls will be victim of smear than any other discard when she walks away?

      1. HG Tudor says:

        Correct ng27

        1. ng27 says:

          Everything is making so much sense now. Thank you

          1. HG Tudor says:

            You are welcome.

          2. ng27 says:

            As the dls, what if anything should I expect when I start dating someone else? I was dls for approximately six years. I went no contact after being devalued severely. He has made no attempt at contact. Can I assume I am free of him now?

          3. HG Tudor says:

            How long has passed since you were devalued and when you imposed no contact?

          4. ng27 says:

            Devaluation began over a year ago, with me trying to break up several times through that time frame, since we had had such a long run of wonderful, it took me a while to start trusting my gut. I forget what I googled that lead me to understand what he is.
            I made the final break a month ago over text, because he refused to call or see me after spending new years eve overnight together. I didn’t beg or act particularly weak, but would try to make plans and he would always make plans with co workers instead. Told me he was too busy and couldn’t deal anymore with my “comments” regarding wanting to see me or talk to him. For a month.
            I texted him and told him I was going to take my stress out of his life. He texted back a few curse words and I didn’t reply. Nothing since that text a month ago.
            I specifically tried to put the blame of ending “the relationship” on me bc I was afraid of him speaking badly of me. I was not aware of the pattern of dls until after that time. But he fits every aspect of narcissism to a tee. He could be the person you describe daily.

          5. ng27 says:

            I thought I should add, the devaluation began shortly before his wife kicked him out. Once he was out, it became monumentally worse for me which at the time was very confusing to me bc for several years I was told that he was eagerly awaiting the day she would finally want to move on.
            I know anyone reading this thinks I’m insane to have stayed with him all that time. But honestly until you’re being emotionally abused yourself, it’s so easy to judge others.

          6. BraveHeart 💘 says:

            NG27, I can honestly say, this is the first site I’ve been to where I have not once been, or felt, judged by anyone for being entangled with a MN. I think, for the most part, everyone here understands, or will begin to understand, just how manipulated we’ve all been regardless of our circumstances. Don’t worry about that because this is the place where you can be yourself. Take care and feel free to express yourself openly. 😊💕

  21. jarwithaheavylid says:

    I wasn’t a dirty little secret. I was too smart and he knew it.

    Who’s the biggest idiot? The person with zero integrity? The parasite he hates? His wife. I knew I was better than him. Like you once said – he negates our existence because he cannot control me. Let him be with the brainless twit he can control. The last laugh is on me.

  22. NarcAngel says:

    Great and timely article that cleared up a few questions for me. I hadnt thought about it in the context of a friend before so that was most interesting. As always, much appreciated.

  23. Mona says:

    HG, I must agree, it makes a lot of fun to destroy the image of someone and let him cry for mercy. Thank you for helping me to play that game. But it is only for this man, special treatment only for this one. I give him, what he deserves and asks for. He needs the drama. He can get the drama.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      You are welcome.

  24. Mona says:

    Oh yes, the dirty secrets… He bragged all time, what lovely woman he had in the past. Wow, I met his former primary source: normal! I met his dirty secret: an elderly woman, who cleaned his flat, believing she would be the next primary source. I think, she was only ten years younger than his mother. So he XXXX.. his mother. She comforted him, when I was gone. I could not believe that. He is a male whore. For being comforted he went to bed with an old woman. I laughed him down. Oh dear, how angry he was and how ashamed. No wonder, that I am his deadly enemy. I told his dirty secret in a very friendly manner to many people in a manipulating way. I told them, that it seemed I was too young for him…..Where the love falls…..

  25. Laurie says:

    Excellent article. I am happy to say most of those people who once used me as you have described have been kicked to the curb and never saw it coming. It’s a good feeling.

  26. Alissa says:

    Hg have you ever cried as an adult? I mean real tears ovcpurse. If so what did you feel? Or was it just a reaction to physical pain? I’m really curious one of my exes couldn’t really cry. I just think it’s interesting.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      No I haven’t.

      1. 💜💜 says:


  27. 💜💜 says:

    No, I feel sorry for hes wife.

  28. Hope says:

    All of these latest posts make me feel like you’ve been writing my biography, trying to get me to read it and believe it’s not fiction.
    Thank you, I think…
    Of course I assume I’ll be the special one. My love is different.
    Nope. I’m just as broken as him.
    It’s like overeating vs drinking alcohol, both are addictions, maybe trying to fill a void, numb a pain. One though, is more socially acceptable. One doesn’t seem to hurt other people.

  29. 💜💜 says:

    I sort of feel sorry for him. 😞

  30. 💜💜 says:

    I just got an email from the first Somatic Narcissist saying, “Please play with me, I’ll behave. Your Friend ” “..” This is about the 5th time in last 9 months that he has hoovered me. He is married! He is begging me…😟

  31. MLA - Clarece says:

    As we do not fit into your image of the perfect facade due to not having a pedigree background with a university education, or maybe come from limited means, is it possible your addiction to the fuel of the DSIPSS also stems because they may know you better and make you feel better than your IP?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      I don’t think so Clarece, no.

  32. Brandie says:

    Reblogged this on Speak Out 4 Others.

  33. Holy Reality says:

    What is so amazing to see is the puzzle come together (sources of fuel) as it pertains to the triangulation and other behaviors. I will just call it what it is …twisted fucked up shit! No one can ever please or satisfy a narc indefinitely. Whether we choose to escape or have been discarded. The truth is and I would tend to think from reading the comments of all the wonderful people here is simply this. We’ve been brainwashed and until going NO CONTACT. We out of curiosity (ego) want validation for our contributions to the relationship. It’s NEVER going to happen! Closure is our own journey. Thank you HG for the tools in finding the way back to sanity!

    1. HG Tudor says:

      You are welcome.

    2. BraveHeart says:

      So true, Holy Reality!

  34. … dirty little secret friend who is low income … always there for the N when the wealthy N is feeling down, always being told how valuable they are to the N. Only being buttered up and used when they are low on fuel. 🙁 A friend for God’s sake. Had no idea that’s been what’s been going on. Now I know. Would never have figured this out on my own. Blech.

    1. ANK says:

      Yep, me too, and after so long and because of this site…..

    2. 💜💜 says:

      Hopeful4today, your icon is very beautiful. I love bright colors.

  35. Carla says:

    This may sound like an odd question, but would a bona fide narcissistic sociopath EVER blatantly come out and tell someone “I’m a narcissistic sociopath”?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      They may well do so as part of the portentous remarks that we engage in. If we considered you to be so under our control it would reinforce our sense of power to test that by making such a disclosure and if you did not immediately run away but remained, that would be edifying.

      1. Carla says:

        And if I did run away (or in this case went NC)?

      2. MLA - Clarece says:

        More edifying for you to have them be in full disclosure you’re a narcissistic sociopath? Elaborate please. I would think it would make you feel more vulnerable and paranoid that the other individual would be trying harder to have an angle to topple you, since you always feel threatened that way. Or is it, that it would actually be a relief to feel wholly accepted?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Not if the respond in the usual way and completely fail to accept the disclosure. I have had one victim who carried on as if I had never even said anything, as if she just deleted what she had heard. Others say “stop being silly” or “you are only like that with your work, not with me”. Thus they do not accept it so since that is the case they are not going to do anything about it.

          1. MLA - Clarece says:

            So if the typical response of ignoring the truth does not happen, and you have someone engaging with you full on factoring in what you are, do you hypothesize you would then be out of your comfort zone and feeling a bit paranoid? These others don’t count because they didn’t believe it.

          2. HG Tudor says:


        2. Entertainment says:

          Fuel 😊😊😐

      3. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:

        For some reason I get people like that all the time lmao.

      4. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:

        Oh the fun we have after a disclosure like that….

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