The Final Discard


“He told me he never wanted to see me again so long as he was alive. That is it. This time it  really is over.”

“She told me I was useless, pathetic, that she hated me and she would call the police if I came near her again. I don’t understand what is going on, but all I know that is the absolute end.”

“He made it clear that there is no future for us, that he cannot stand the sight of me and that he wants me packed and gone by morning. This is it. It really is it, this time.”

“She has taken everything and left me a letter explaining that she cannot do it any more, that she needs to find herself, whatever that means and there is no future for us together. I knew this was coming, I could tell, I have been given the final discard.”

The final discard. The curtain of conclusion. The guillotine of totality.

It really is over.

So often victims of our kind distinguish between being discarded and then there is (await dramatic music) the FINAL discard. There is being kicked to one side by us but the prospect of being hoovered back in and then there is the final discard whereby you have been removed from your association with us and it is the end of the entanglement and there will be no more engagement between you and I.

Victims often consider declaring that this time is the final discard and they do this for two reasons, which, interestingly are conflicting.

The first reason is that they desperately hope that it is not the final discard at all and that when they explain to whoever is listening to them recount the minute my minute dynamic of this final discard, that the person will tell them that it is not. The victim is hoping that the listener will provide some cogent reason, some piece of evidence which will explain that it cannot be the final discard and thus fulfil that which blazes at the heart of all empathic individuals; hope.

The victim does not want the entanglement to end. He or she cannot bear the pain. They do not want this to be their exile, their abandonment or their expulsion. They want to remain with us but fear that this time it really is the end and they are crying out for somebody to tell them that it is not, just so they can cling to a hope.

The second reason is because the victim does indeed hope that it is over so they are freed from our monstrous clutches. They want that to be the end. The victim, either at the time or sometime after this final discard, having gained some knowledge and understanding, ascertains that what they did caused significant wounding (although often they are wrong about that) and that this wounding was to such a degree that it sent us packing with our tail between our legs, skulking away, broken, humiliated and shame pouring from us, so that we will never, ever dare risk returning to you. The victim concludes that what they did has sent us packing and we will not darken their doorstep or inbox again. It is an understandable conclusion to reach.

There is no such thing as a final discard.

There is no such thing as a discard.

There is only ever dis-engagement.

This is because in our minds you belong to us and the Narcissistic Relationship lasts until you die or we die. That is only when finality applies to our connection. You are our property. You are our fuelling appliance. You are good and then you are bad. You are of use and then you are of no use. And then you are of use again.

We have invested time and energy in you. We want to reap the benefits time and time again.

If you are our primary source, we will dis-engage with you. We paint you black and do not want anything more to do with you at that time. It may appear as if we have ‘discarded’ you, but it is merely the termination of the Formal Relationship. You are not our girlfriend, partner, wife any longer. The Narcissistic Relationship persists. We do not draw fuel from you, we do not take your character traits, we do not take your residual benefits. You are deleted as we enter a golden period with a new primary source.

If you are an intimate secondary source, we will dis-engage with you. You are placed on the shelf, back in the cupboard, ready for the next time we want to engage with you. You are not deleted. You are just not required. For now. There is no discard. You usually are not devalued. If you are, then you have offended us and there will be a dis-engagement and a termination of the Formal Relationship of booty call, friend with benefits, shag partner.

If you are a non-intimate secondary source, we dis-engage with you. You are placed on the shelf again until the next time we wish to engage with you. Most NISSs do not notice this happen because they regard it as a natural lull in between meeting up, speaking and so forth. Again, it is rare for the NISS to be devalued, but if you are, then you have offended us and the Formal Relationship is terminated. You are no longer our friend.

If you are a tertiary source be it intimate or non-intimate, you will be put to one side as we dis-engage. There is no Formal Relationship to terminate. We may return to you or we may not. It depends on our fuel needs.

Thus, you need to understand that there is only ever a dis-engagement. The Narcissistic Relationship persists. If there is no devaluation, we consider the Formal Relationship to remain in place – thus you remain our booty call, our friend – but we have no need to call on you at the present time. If there is devaluation, then the Formal Relationship is over – you are no longer our wife, you are not our boyfriend, you are not the friend or friend with benefits and we dis-engage.

It is usually us who decide on this dis-engagement. Whether there is devaluation and dis-engagement or just dis-engagement, it is invariably us that makes this decision. If you reject us then it is an escape and of course we will endeavour to hold on to you.

What though of the situation where you have actually wounded us considerably, either as we dis-engaged or more likely, when you make your escape? Surely that brings about finality? That must mean we do not want to engage with you any longer because you have mortally wounded us and as a consequence if you did this as we dis-engaged with you, then we will never return yes? If you did it as part of the escape you implemented, then is it not correct to state that we will not hoover you?


As mentioned many times, there is always a risk that we will come back and hoover you. There needs to be a Hoover Trigger activated by you entering a sphere of influence. Thereafter, the Hoover Execution Criteria has to be achieved. This includes various matters to balance, some increasing the risk of meeting the criteria, others diminishing that risk.

This includes

  • the type of narcissist you are dealing with
  • how your fuel was regarded
  • whether you provided character traits
  • whether you provided residual benefits
  • whether you are with somebody new
  • whether you have recovered from a position of being broken or not
  • how easy it is to contact you
  • how easy it is to make physical contact with you
  • whether we know you have been lamenting our dis-engagement
  • whether you have been angry about our dis-engagement
  • whether there are outstanding issues – money, property etc
  • whether there are obstacles
  • whether there is a risk of wounding

Thus you can see the savage wounding you may have inflicted on the last occasion we interacted is but a consideration in the criteria. Yes, it may well be an important consideration when viewed against the other criteria but it will not itself amount to a final discard.

No matter how damning we were about you, how we may well have used words such as “never”, “do not”, “forever” or “always”, we are pragmatists. It is the practical need of fuel which governs all that we do. Contradiction and hypocrisy do not concern us. We can perform a 180 degree turn, a volte face or a complete turnaround and it matters not. Those were yesterday’s words.

We do not discard.

We will always come back IF the Hoover Trigger is activated and the Hoover Execution Criteria are met.

There is no final discard.

And that is my final word on the matter.

330 thoughts on “The Final Discard

  1. Marriedtoanarc says:

    My husband has a pattern of escalating when I don’t respond to him. Whether I don’t reply to attempts to argue, stay emotionless, don’t take his calls, ignore harassing emails. I’ve gone grey rock. Then he stole my wedding rings and assaulted my son when I asked him for my rings back. After getting a restraining order against him just to get him out of the house, HE filed for divorce. Even though he may follow through on the divorce my gut tells me he doesn’t want to be done with the relationship because he never initiates, only responds to me ignoring him. I have more social prestige than him (age, looks, money) and he’s always been terrified to lose me. In his mind we are a joint project. His new primary supply is his 80+ father who is also a narcissist (so that won’t last long) and I predict hoovering to commence in July (our birthdays–mine is the day before his and let me tell you that’s been a nightmare) and August (our wedding anniversary).

    What’s going on there HG? I don’t want to divorce–I’d like to just live separately and date/go on vacations together until the kids are out of the house in a few years. Any chance I can get him to agree to that? We have a lot of fun together when we do those things alone. Their not his sons and he’s pathologically jealous of them. I actually don’t mind his narc traits–I don’t like his abuse.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      1. Grey Rock does not work.
      2. What is going on? There is a lot to explain, in essence you keep threatening his control and therefore he responds by asserting control over you. I can explain it in greater detail for you and you should organise a consultation.
      3. Date/go on vacations? Forget it. That’s like wanting to stroke a tiger because it is a beautiful animal, it will bite you. Again, if you want to understand the many reasons why you should not want this and why you cannot achieve this, organise a consultation with me.

      1. Mydi says:

        HG Tudor – The narcissist who was also my first love reconnected and I went through the cycle love bombing to harshly discarding me within 2 years. He discarded me and he got engaged and married – Indian origin. He attributed it to surrendering to family, society or his needs (having a child). He has gone fully no contact as he wants to be fair to his wife after trying to break my marriage up for 2 years. I am realizing he will not regret anything. However he had married someone that doesn’t seem to fit the standards he had set out for himself. He has compromised to acheive what he wants (societal status and a child). He has proven to be a visciousn with his words. Ofcourse he fully blames me for the relationship. He is infuriated at me and definitely seemed to want to destroy me (devalue in all aspects) last few months. My concern is will he hoover?

        I have blocked him on social media and emails and phone. —- His last note to me paraphrased was — about how he surrendered. I married someone I loved and he will spend his life with someone he doesn’t love but I wasn’t there for him either or didn’t understand his situation. He can’t talk to me or face me.

        Will he be fine with the new relationship which is an arranged marriage and/if he is able to have a child? Will he hoover or will he leave me alone for life? It took him 20 years last time he re engaged since we were teens mainly given the anger he harbored towards me for not tolerating his behaviour then.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          There is always a risk that you will be hoovered, what you can do is manage the risk. You should organise a consultation with me so that I can convey this information to you.

  2. Pam says:


    1. Does a narcissist (unconsciously) sometimes break up with his girlfriend as devaluation but not actually to end the relationship? The narcissist said that he broke up with her but he still talks to her. So, then he didn’t disengage then. I thought they follow the idealization, devaluation, and discard/disengage pattern with the IPPS.

    2. After a narcissist breaks up with his girlfriend, why does he act charming towards the IPSS again?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      1. This can happen, yes.
      2. IPPS is painted black, IPSS is painted white, hence charm.

      1. Why? says:

        Awww … I feel bad for her. Yeah, make sense. If it was a real break up, then there would be a discard/disengagement for a while before being hoovered. Unless, he wanted to hoover her earlier for some reason, I guess. Idk whatever.

  3. Pam says:


    1. Why does a narcissist still talk to an ex after he broke up with her instead of disengaging? I thought that they disengage/block after breaking up with the IPPS before they hoover again.

    2. I don’t see much information about the FIPPS right now. How is the FIPPS treated? Is there a golden period and devaluation for the FIPPS, too?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      1. May not be disengagement but was a pseudo break up. Alternatively, he may have disengaged and then needed to hoover for a variety of reasons.
      2. Do you mean NIPPS?

      1. Why? says:

        2. No, I mean former intimate partner primary source – the ex.


        I don’t see much information about the former intimate partner primary source right now. How is the former IPPS treated? Is there a golden period and devaluation for the former IPPS, too? How does that pattern go?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          The Former IPPS is treated in a shelf manner, both benign and malign.

          1. Why? says:

            Oh wow! How are they treated in a malign way? I’ve never been a IPPS, FIPPS, just IPSS. But its still good to know!

  4. Allie Tibbetts says:

    I’m pregnant with a narcissist. We were together on and off for many years and I was his primary source. After I got pregnant (which of course he talked about for years), he discarded me and now is gallivanting around on trips to Vegas with this older woman. I unfortunately slept with him a couple times during this time, half trying to get him back and also wanting to act like I didn’t care after to try to get him back. It didn’t work. And logically I don’t even want him back; it’s just emotionally.
    Would I be accurate in thinking he has discarded me so cruelly because he thinks since we have a baby there is no way out for me now without him having to put in any effort? Because that’s what it seems like. Before it was like he was trying to hold onto me but now he is investing his time and energy and money into that new relationship, which is also hurtful because he is not helping prepare for this baby. But to expect him to is ridiculous since he is a narcissist. He doesn’t care about me or the baby. I am just looking for some realistic words to hang onto here. I am working on getting over this the best I can so I can remain distant from him and raise my child. I know he will try to come around but he won’t do too much about it if I don’t facilitate things with him and the baby. So I plan not to but I need to get in a better head space myself. Please help.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Hello Allie,

      You and her may be Shelf Appliances to him. I need more information provided through consultation to advise you.
      Alternatively, if she is the new IPPS and you are his Former IPPS, he disengaged from you because he had her as replacement, not because you have a child by him. Your pregnancy signals control, but your devaluation was for reasons of stale fuel/infrequent fuel/inadequate amounts of fuel and then your disengagement was because he had the new person as a replacement. He got you pregnant to assert control over you.

      I recommend you organise a consultation with me so I can explain this in greater detail for you and answer your doubtless many questions.

  5. Lhama says:

    If I was a wife and bff for 12 years, no abuse, then he cheated, left me and we share kids, he goes silent for weeks and used to call and msg 10 times a day, the new supply is grade C and I am super pretty, great wife, mom, etc. He never went public with new supply or ever agreed on divorcing. Leaving me got our social circle in shock. He is not getting better with age. But he is adamant it’s over. NEVER asked me back. In my opinion, unless it’s bad fuel, this was a final discard. Am I wrong?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      There is no such thing as a final disengagement (discard) you will be hoovered. I recommend, Lhama, that you arrange a consultation with me so I can assist you in understanding what has happened and I can assist you in organising your no contact regime. There is a lot of material to address here to help you.

      1. Lhama says:

        I don’t want to go NC, I need him back because I need to be with him until my kids are older. I have no choice!

        1. HG Tudor says:

          That is emotional thinking Lhama.

        2. NarcAngel says:

          The only people who have no choice in your scenario are your kids (depending on their age). They are hostage to the decisions of adults.

          1. HG Tudor says:


        3. WhoCares says:


          You’re way ahead of the game if you’re free of him and your children aren’t being subjected to his manipulations or having to watch you be treated poorly. You are already out – stay out.
          Run with it, and consult with HG.

  6. L says:


    I have been a long distance shelf IPSS for 3 years now. The victim LMRN or MMRN has been dating somebody for the past 2 to 3 months. But last week, he called me twice. Once when he was sick and the other a video chat and asked for my company while he was cleaning. In that call, he says he has feelings for me and her. He called the next day and told me that he needs time away because he is confused about having feelings for the both of us and he wants to focus more on her. He said he doesn’t want to commit to me because she is in person and I’m not and it makes a difference. And that it’s like splitting… I think that he meant it’s like we are splitting up. Then, a couple of days later, I texted him “I feel heartbroken. I am going no contact. I hope you understand. Take care.” He replied with “I understand. When or if you are ready to talk, I will understand that too and if you get this message, I will miss talking with you and thank you for our time together. Take care”. I didn’t respond for 2 days. However, on the 2nd day, I text messaged him saying I was heartbroken and I said how it was wrong of him to do this to me when I was loyal for 3 years, etc He didn’t reply. No comfort crumb.

    1. Did he block me? Disengage? Demote me? I’m in the shelf?

    2. Did he block me because he thought that I blocked him?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Hello L, this requires more input and detail from me and to ensure I provide you with the accurate answer you deserve you are best served by organising an email consultation.

      1. L says:


        Okay. As it turns out, he didn’t block me. I had to text him again the next morning and he responded but then he ignored my reply back again. I just blocked him b/c I just have to but I might do a consult for closure/peace of mind.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          I concur that you should

  7. Evon says:

    I was at his place when I found out that he cheated. I left immediately and drove home. He texted me to never ever communicate with him again and some profanities like my v… smells like men’s … and f… you. His final text was “you are on your own. Best of luck”. HG, how would you interpret this last message? Does he think that I’m lost/nothing without him?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Hello Evon, I would need more context and to ascertain that the individual concerned is a narcissist. To that end, you should organise an email consultation so I can assist you further.

  8. RDoll says:

    Can a narcissist discard you but still leave you unblocked on social media? But every time you reach out to them they mention how busy they are and how they are showing you courtesy by not ignoring you as opposed to just blocking you? Sometimes the narcissist will engage you to talk but it appears to be on their terms only? Is a narcissist asking for space a discard or silent treatment? Thank you

    1. HG Tudor says:

      There is no such thing as a discard, the correct term is disengagement. The circumstances you describe are not that of disengagement (or discard if you must use that word). If you want to understand what is going on RDoll, use these

  9. badalassi says:

    HG, i news to know if will be a hoover and when. Is it possible trough a consultation?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Absolutely Badalassi, I would welcome assisting you with this issue through a consultation.

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