To Have and To Hold


We marry. Sometimes we keep dangling the carrot of matrimony for the purposes of future-faking and keeping a primary source interested and working hard to keep our favour. Other times it happens quickly in that whirlwind of the narcissistic seduction for the purposes of ensuring that you are bound to us as tightly and quickly as possible so we have the comfort and satisfaction that you, as our wonderful new primary source, are firmly embedded and attached to us. A swift engagement with the wedding following hard on the heels. It is customary move of our kind to enter into a marriage. We give the appearance of being utterly devoted to you, smitten and with our love bombing and repeated protestations of love and desire it is little wonder that the victim readily says “yes” and has the engagement ring slipped on her finger and the planning for the wedding itself happens minutes later. Marriage is important to the narcissist. Not the actual institution, although we will make a great show of emphasising just how important it is, what it means to us and how we could not wait to get married. All good material for ensnaring the victim and maintaining the façade.

When that day comes, what goes through the mind of the narcissist when he or she is stood before the altar, in a registry office or atop a cliff overlooking the sea in a civil ceremony? What is the narcissist thinking about as the priest or registrar conducts the ceremony? What thoughts percolate through the mind of our kind with the guests all stood behind us, staring in rapt attention and admiration, smiles plastered across faces and the occasional tear trickling from the eye of the emotional onlooker? What are we considering as the hymns are sung, the readings are read and the service proceeds? I shall endeavour to tell you, from the perspective of a male narcissist by reference to a traditional ceremony. Bride and groom are stood side by side, excited smiles exchanged and eventually the vows are reached.

“I HG Tudor, take you Victoria Tim, to be my lawfully wedded wife.”

I chose her. I chose her above all of the others. She looks amazing but then so she should, for me. I knew she would look so beautiful and all these people gathered here will be looking at her and thinking how beautiful she looks and how lucky I am to have married her. There was no luck involved of course. I planned this and it made perfect sense to marry so she is bound to me now. I don’t mind them all looking because although they might be looking at her, I chose her, so their admiration of her, is actually admiration of me. I am looking forward to walking down the aisle with her. So many faces and all looking at us. I can barely keep still as it is now, knowing that so many hundred pairs of eyes are fixed on my back, watching us. This is brilliant. I should get married every week. The whole day is about us, but I know it is all down to me. I chose her. I drew her to me. I am the one that created this wonderful union and I get to spend the entire day basking in the glorious attention and well-wishes of the congregation and wedding guests. Even more of them will turn up for the evening reception. So many guests, but that is what comes of being so popular. I wonder if the Predecessor Primary Source, what was her name again, Wendy, that’s it, I wonder if she turned up. She accepted the invitation. Not that Victoria knows she is a former girlfriend but the pained look and frozen smile that I am expecting from Wendy will give me an extra special boost.

“to have to hold”

Oh she is mine alright and I want to make her happy because then she will make me happy. I do think I have got it right this time. Everything seems so right about her. She lkies everything that I like. She is so helpful and caring, I picked very carefully after the disappointment of the others, like Wendy and so on. I should have invited some of the others actually. That would have been very entertaining to see their faces when I walked down the aisle with my beautiful wife. My wife. Mine. She belongs to me alright and this time it is going to work. I am sure I have selected the right one. I have her and I will have her time and time again. I know how to delight her and she responds magnificently to my touch. Well, to be honest, they all usually do, but this one, more so than the others. Another reason I chose her. Yes, she is mine to have and I am always going to hold on to her. I treat her well. I really do. That’s because I adore her. There are so many reasons why I do. She is clever, she is witty, she is beautiful, she looks after me, she understands what I need. I know that to be the case. This is why I chose her and this is why I married her. You don’t let someone this good wriggle free, so I will indeed have her and hold her Mr Priest, I will hold on to her very tightly indeed.

“from this day forward, for better, for worse”

There will be plenty of better because that is what she and I are about. We fit together so perfectly. My soulmate. I deserve her and she is delighted to have me as her new husband, I know because she has talked of little else since the engagement. It was quick but so what, you snooze, you lose as the saying goes. Yes, lots of better, we are so fortunate to have what we have, more than most people, but then we are not the ordinary people. I know I have elevated her, but she has accepted that with good grace and enthusiasm, just as I thought she would. She will do as she is told. I was pleased she didn’t go in for that modern rubbish of excluding her vow to honour and obey. If she had resisted that, well, there would have been a problem. I know some couples both say it to one another but I am traditionalist. I wear the trousers. Of course I will honour her, she knows that, but I do not need to say it, besides, I decide what I do, not some vows. Don’t get me wrong, I intend to stick to them, but if something happens, well, I have to do what is right for me. I am hoping she keeps giving me what I need and that day does not come, but if she does mess up, I don’t think she will, but let’s just say for the sake of discussion and argument that she does mess up, well I will ensure I have other options. I mean, she will be a grade A idiot if she does that, after all, she is getting a great deal with me, but you can’t be a fool and rule it out. Not after what I have seen with the other ones. I do think she is different so fingers-crossed we will not have to go down that route. So, yes I intend to honour her. Obey? You can fuck that sky high! I do what I want. I am the doer, not the done too. Obey? Seriously? That one is for her and believe me she had better fucking comply with it or there will serious repercussions, but hey, I am getting ahead of myself here, I know she will, that is why I chose her. It is important that she does obey me because that way we stand the best chance of happiness and success. If she obeys me, which I know she will, I will keep her happy and not have to do what I have done with the others. Still, let’s not think about that on a day such as this. I don’t have to obey. She will. That is all that matters.

“for richer,”

No problems there El Vicaro, I have wedge and so has she. That box is well and truly ticked. How much longer will this go on for? I think I will have a cheeky peek over my shoulder. That bridesmaid is rather tasty; Natasha isn’t it? Victoria’s friend from university. She is totally wanting some of me. There we are again, that little grin and the bite of the bottom lip. Oh yes. Well too bad Natasha, this isn’t your gig but if it does go tits up, not that it will, I will look you up, of that you can be assured.

“for poorer”

Not going to happen so no concerns about that. Easy to agree with that one man of the cloth. Come on, when are we getting finished, I want to show off the vintage champagne that I bought. That will impress her old man. He loves that kind of thing. There he is, proud as punch that his girl has been chosen by HG here. Let’s give him a wink. He liked that, winked back. You wouldn’t be winking at me like that if you know what I am going to be doing to your daughter tonight. Hell yeah. Must have laughed then, I am getting a sideways glance from the soon-to-be Mrs HG, give her the smile. There we go, melting straight away. Easy.

“in sickness and in health

Bollocks to that matey boy, who do you think I am? Some kind of fucking nursemaid? She gets ill she deals with it and anyway she can go and see the quacks, that’s why I pay private health insurance. Don’t expect me to be arsing around looking after her though, I have other things to get on with. Of course, it is a different proposition for me. I am in rude health, strong as an ox, fine mind and so on. I don’t get ill. Being ill is for the saps and the weaklings, but if I am hurt, I daresay with me it will be something pretty serious if it is going to slow me down, then I know she will run around after me. After all, who wouldn’t. I am worth it.

“until death do us part.”

Absolutely right daddio. That’s the only way she is getting away from me, when either her or me shuffles off this mortal coil. This is for life.

59 thoughts on “To Have and To Hold

  1. curious codependent says:

    HG how long after your first proposal was your second proposal? 5 years later? 1 year later? I am just curious. How old were you the first time you proposed?

  2. Hannah says:

    I like Matilda’s comment about the ideal partner. My N is currently involved with myself and another girl. I am aware of her existence, she is not aware of mine. I am not available to be his primary so he threatens to marry her to “create the idea of being a family man.” She is quite young, insecure, nerdy and nowhere near attractive enough for him. She has no idea about him. I am older, successful and attractive. I am also completely aware and accepting of what he is. I know what he is up to, what his motives are and I am able to engage with him to the point where I don’t allow him to control me completely but I still comply to his demands because I choose to. There is this constant discussion about what would be better – if I freed myself up to be with him and therefore he can wear the mask in public yet be himself privately and have a partner who “gets it” or marry her (and keep me around, because that would be stupid to let go of) and use her as a beard of sorts. His reasoning for that is that “it is fun to destroy an innocent.” I know, what a catch. I get that point but I imagine that there is no way that relationship would end well. HG or any other Narcs, can you advise me on which option you would pick and why? Also, if he chooses her, is there any way that it could actually work. Other background info – he is currently getting a divorce from wife 1, who only lasted three years and while she never completely figured him out, definitely dealt with years of devaluation.

    1. NarcAngel says:

      Your question was not to me but it made me wonder. Why would he have to choose? If I am reading HGs articles correctly, his view is that he owns you all and is entitled to do what he likes and thus will keep you all in rotation. Unless you view the one he marries as “winner” being the IPPS? It sounds, (from an outsider looking in) that since you are not available to be his primary, that he dangles (threatens) these scenarios to get your reaction and to see how committed you will stay whatever he decides (and it is ALWAYS his decision). Even if you “free yourself up” you cannot expect him to honor any agreement so please be sure to assess all your angles and accept the inevitable. In reality it ends well for no one. Unless you dont mind being dicked around forever-then its totally workable lol.

      1. Matilda says:

        I wholeheartedly agree, NarcAngel! A very accurate assessment. It will end in heartbreak for both women…

  3. It’s hard to believe someone so self centered would want to marry let alone waste a second of their time pretending to love someone when clearly they don’t. Maybe you should just get a mirror to tote around. It would make life easier for everyone.

  4. Sweetsoul says:

    Divorce was granted this month from my ex-Narc…and I couldn’t be happier!! Blocked his number, Facebook etc, change of name soon, and I’ll keep trying to forget he ever existed…happy days lie ahead.

  5. giulia says:

    “She lies everything that I like”
    Beautiful lapsus….beautiful… 🙂

  6. Notavictim says:

    How long were you married?
    And will you marry again?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Three years.
      I might if you ask nicely.

      1. SVR says:

        Surely you would if you secured a loyal lady. Do you have children?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          No I do not.

          1. SVR says:

            I thought children were good to keep the victim. If you don’t have children how do you know so much? Your answer was as if it was not wanted or am I wrong?

          2. HG Tudor says:

            They are a useful binding agent for some of our kind, especially the Lessers and Mid-Rangers. I know so much because I was a child once and I also see children of my ind also.

          3. SVR says:

            You said you see children of your kind? How do you identify them?
            When I think of my childhood I cannot remember a lot of it, can you remember lots of it?

          4. HG Tudor says:

            I mean I recognise my kind and they have children. I prefer not to remember.

          5. SVR says:

            Can you say what you have observed from your kind having children?

          6. HG Tudor says:

            I have written about this in various articles and books SVR. For instance, see Impregnated.

      2. Matilda says:

        “I might if you ask nicely.”

        That made me laugh 🙂 . Nice to see your playful side, HG, you’re not entirely dead inside after all.

        With regard to your next spouse, I was just wondering which was the better option, a fully informed or a blissfully ignorant one?

        It cannot be a severely burned one like most of us, let alone a fully informed burned one. She would never be able to trust you, even if you strove to improve your behavioural patterns towards the socially acceptable (which you have not considered to date).

        A blissfully ignorant one would come without the PTSD baggage, but you would take advantage of her defenselessness in a flash, and ruin it.

        The best option would probably be a fully informed, possibly mildly burned one. A clinical psychotherapist who specialises in personality disorders, for example. She would know how to manage your behaviours, and you could not outwit her so easily. You could be each other’s object of study, and altogether a good team! 🙂

      3. Notavictim says:

        I do love your blog; I have learned so much from you.
        Did she catch infidelities? And what did you tell your family? (You “grew apart”)

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Thank you NAV, I am pleased that you do. No she did not catch the infidelities. I smeared her to my family that she was experiencing some kind of work-induced stress breakdown.

  7. amsodone says:

    So funny, cause it’s true. LMAO

  8. MLA - Clarece says:

    Following the divorce with my husband of 16 years, he moved on pretty fast and was engaged within 6 months. He called me special on a weekday to let me know ahead of time that he was getting ready to get a ring and propose because we would have to address that with our daughter. I figured it was something that would happen in the next few weeks.
    Turns out it was 2 days later on a weekend he had our daughter and proposed to his new fiance at the beginning of a big special Southern dinner he made for her and her family. He had her ring for her to find in her bowl of Gumbo and in grandiose style proposed then in front of everyone.
    I found this out from a mutual friend commenting they saw the FB post of the fiance’s mother saying how happy she was to share that magical moment with her only daughter.
    I was enraged. When I called my ex, I asked why in God’s name he would actually choose to propose in front of our daughter, his reply was to demonstrate to her how a man treats a woman he truly loves so she’ll know when it happens to her. I had thought a proposal should happen between a man and woman in private. Leave kids out of it who may feel conflicted or confused towards their other parent.
    I screamed so many obscenities at him that day and was so happy I didn’t share living space with him anymore.
    You know how he proposed to me when I was 19? It was an afterthought following a dinner because he got annoyed I complained about his best friend breaking my cassette player in my car earlier that day and he wanted the subject changed. No ring even.
    Again, no wonder I was putty for JN when I met him. This was the sh*t I was dealing with on the other side.

    1. NarcAngel says:

      So….Im cruising through your post thinking Jesus, class act there with the ring in a bowl of gumbo and with his child present (shithead). Then forgive me, I hit the words cassette player and I havent stopped laughing since. I have been trying to imagine the conversation that segued from “your friend is an asshole” to “f**k him, lets get married. I bet he made you a mix tape. Yup, you were ripe for some sweet talk alright lol.

      1. MLA - Clarece says:

        Yes, the proposal was circa 1991, in the days your cassette could get jammed in your player and yank out the tape. Then you’d spend substantial time with a pencil trying to roll it back in the cassette. Lol
        Thank you for thinking my ex-husband was an a-hole to propose in front of our daughter. The phone call where I unleashed my wrath on him for what happened at work. My best friend said it was like watching a bomb getting ready to detonate. I got the news how he did it. Processed it for about 10 minutes. Then 3…2…1…Explode.

    2. Snow White says:

      Hello Clarece,
      I did exactly the same as NA and my thoughts matched hers.
      I was cleaning out some rooms and came across a box of cassette tapes this weekend and my daughter asked what they were. So when I read your story with the tapes that really made me laugh.
      And I’m shaking my head at the gumbo and your poor daughter. She probably thought it was a little off the wall too since she’s so intelligent.

      1. MLA - Clarece says:

        Thank you Snow! I realize looking back that night during dinner, I was annoyed my ex’s friend broke my cassette player while we were riding around between classes that day. My feelings were really getting hurt though at his indifference towards me and why was I making such a big deal about it. So what does he do to deflect? Oh he proposes. Even better, I say, yes. My God!
        What is funny, is if I met my ex-husband now, I see too many flags and annoyances that it would not get past the first date.

    3. Lou says:

      Clarece, your ex husband sounds like a big AH. Is he still married to the lady?

      1. MLA - Clarece says:

        Why yes he is Lou. He has the complete facade as a middle school principal and married another principal at a different school. They built a new house. Drive new cars. Had 2 babies back-to-back, that are 27 months and 11 months. He is viewed as a charismatic administrator that both students and teachers adore. For example, he stayed with a family of one of his students in the waiting room of the hospital when the student was undergoing a major surgery.
        In the four years our daughter has been on a dance team, he comes to her performances, but has he stayed for awards? No. I text him the results. She’s asking me more, why doesn’t daddy ever want to stay for awards. I repeat whatever reason he gave and then tell her if it’s troubling her, that’s a conversation she needs to have with him.
        But it’s cool. What the townies or his neighbors don’t know is that his sweet, dear wife (and she truly is) is the breadwinner for that life because I get 1/3 of his salary for now between support and maintenance (alimony).

      2. Lou says:

        So, he is also a narcissist? I thought the narc in your life was JN only.

        1. MLA - Clarece says:

          I did not know what true narcissism really was before finding HG. My involvement with JN was what brought me here and I thought he was the only Narc. I was also consumed with what was transpiring between him and I for the first year I was on here.
          I’ve commented though here and there that I read things from HG or other commentators and I get this overall sick feeling in realizing my husband was way more narcissistic then I realized.
          And if I choose to look farther back, there’s probably more.

      3. Lou says:

        Hi Clarence. Sorry, I did not receive notification of your reply. Yes, HG’s classification of narcissists (schools and cadres) has also helped me to recognize better people around me with NPD. I was only aware of my mom’s type of narcissism, which was similar to the one of my ex narc. But now I see the other ones and it is revealing indeed.

  9. IntelAvatar says:

    Third times a charm. If a narc rustles up enough charm to go for thirds, he’s nailed the contract.
    A death will occur.

  10. Karen lynn says:

    My mid range narc started to devalue me 15 years ago just before I inherited 2 million. He stuck around another 15 years. I put my foot down so he would start working and paying bills. Well needless to say he discarded me and moved on to his online new primary source. Yeah for richer alright.

    1. AH OH says:

      I hope you did not let him go through your money.

      1. Karen lynn says:

        Almost. Still have my pension and half a mil in an annuity. You see money started to be an issue. Then he decided it was time to move on. I am heartbroken but relieved.

        1. AH OH says:

          I am generous in gifts. But I do not just let anyone have access to my money. I went to see my attorney last week to make changes in the estate and he reminded me to make sure I have a prenup if I were to get married. I laughed and told him I do not date so how will I get married? I told him to find me a nice guy.

  11. Ruby Bubs says:

    Woah Nelly!! (head drops, rakes fingers through hair). Ok.. well lets just say that was my first wedding/marriage TO A TEE. ‘Minutes later’, love-bombed, triangulated… and impregnated!!

    Yes you know the rest.

    Thanks H G. I’ve been a morbid onlooker for a while but you just touched upon the rawest of nerves right there.

    Can’t look away now.

    1. jennifer says:

      same here

  12. Gabrielle says:

    SVR, I had the opposite happen to me. When I was going through a discard, I told him that I loved him (as if it was going to change the outcome) and he became very agitated. He told me that he never wanted to hear me say that again. His exact words were “I will no longer respond to you telling me that you love me”. This confuses me as I thought that is what they wanted to hear. Then again everything else I have been through with him has been a never-ending loop of contradiction playing over and over again in my mind. So I guess that is no different.

    On the subject of marriage however, would a Narcissists also marry to perpetutate their illusion of their perfect “family” life to everyone on the outside? “Oh he has a sweet wife and a beautiful daughter and he’s such a nice guy, there’s no way he’s a Narcissist”….and that makes it possible for him to keep many “dirty little secrets” on the side. Add in the fact that he is very active in his community and with the church as well. Holier than thou but never practicing what he preaches.

    1. SVR says:

      I have found that we do blame them but what I experienced was familiar/safe with him. I could beven a child again and throw caution to the wind. Look really deep at yourself. It’s not about him all this: it’s about you. There are some fabulous you tube peogle out there and brilliant books. Recovery takes time and patience oh and frustration! I knew there was something not right with my life: I am a good citizen. This narc came into my life to wake me up. Sometimes I think oh my that abuse was electric and I want it back, sometimes I find this normal carefree living difficult as in boring. It was my default. My childhood was not what I thought at all. So now I say NO and don’t experience guilt because I count. Please do look more closely at you and that may be all you need.
      HG I do thank you for explaining it so clearly your default. I laughed in one of your posts when you said your kind look for gym person, animal lovers, in nursing: well that does refer to me.

      1. HG Tudor says:

        You are welcome.

  13. lmao! 😮

  14. Cordelia says:

    Are you still married?

    1. HG Tudor says:


      1. SVR says:

        Are you angry always at your ex wife?

        1. HG Tudor says:


          1. SVR says:

            Is it fury then?

          2. HG Tudor says:

            Only if she ignites it which rarely occurs.

          3. SVR says:

            Okay. Maybe you could clarify a few things for me please. The narc I saw never told me I was ugly, shouted at me but he did do the silent treatment. One time I demanded a meeting, we met and when he approached me his eyes were different. I said why are you like that. He was calm in his voice and said would you not be angry if I did that to you. What? His eyes settled down eventually. Take it that was fury but controlled as still was of use to him in one way?

          4. HG Tudor says:


          5. SVR says:

            I also told him that I was going to pick his girlfriend and baby up and bring them to the meeting. His face wow! He actually said thank you for not doing that. Another time I had enough and was outside his house and messaged him to get outeide now, he said stop doing this it is frightening, I said get outside now or in will knock on your door. He came out and I saw him but he did not see me. His body was rigid with fury and he was stomping around looking for me. Would this really have scared him as his girlfriend was about to find out his game: thought you don’t experience scared?

          6. HG Tudor says:

            Not scared him, wounded him, hence the ignition of fury.

      2. Cordelia says:

        She rarely ignites your fury? Is it for lack of contact, does she have knowledge now, or are you reacting to her differently?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Lack of contact and my considerable awareness of her behaviours allied with my control.

  15. SVR says:

    I know I shouldn’t but this has made me laugh and feel elevated. So glad when he messaged me saying he loved me, my reply Don’t ever say that again. Thank goodness. Onto the next he goes lol!

  16. “until death do us part.”
    Absolutely right daddio. That’s the only way she is getting away from me, when either her or me shuffles off this mortal coil. This is for life.

    I thought I asked this question a couple of days ago, but I never saw my post as it stayed in moderation. I asked if you meant death literally or figuratively? Why does a narc continue to push the empath to suicide (if the empath finally got there after years of abuse) when the narc claims to be suicidal themselves, for example?

    I personally believe the suicidality in my narc is all part of the illusion, as he has never actually done a thing, just made the right noises, but I am still curious.

    1. SVR says:

      OMG! That really hit a nerve. I did not live with him and it was a short term fling but I wanted out and was prepared with my plan to commit suicide. I really did not want to die but wanted peace. Living with this personality type must be pure hell😠 Has any of your Fuel supplies ever committed suicide HG?

      1. HG Tudor says:

        Yes they have SVR, this was addressed a couple of months ago.

        1. SVR says:

          HG thank you for being truthful. I never saw that being addressed. It brings me sadness to think that I could cause someone to kill themselves but as you say you have no empathy. I told the Narc that I had been planning it well after the time it occurred, he said ” never do that you must contact me”. Why? Do you ever think of the people that you led to death? If so in what way? Thank god I did not. I think of myself as having some awareness but wanted to deny it. Told him he was a leech, he needed me more than I needed him, called him an arse, was never scared of him, always spoke up, challenged him, asked him what number I was? He said don’t speak like that. Caught him out on many lies, he was trying to tell me my own mind what!!! He even told me that I was like him as he did not believe in monogamy. ERM think I can decide that one. He did try and gaslight me saying I said something different but nope I knew what I said. He even told me not to fall out with my friend over him, my answer I certainly would not even consider that. His face 😂

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