Found Out to a Greater Degree

FOUND OUT

I wrote previously about the situation where you tell a lesser member of our kind that you know what they are and how they react to it. What then of the response of those of us who belong to the greater school of narcissism? How do we react when you tell us that you know exactly what we are?

Those of us in the greater school possess three attributes which are relevant to this matter. Awareness, intelligence and malice. We know what we do. We know that this is regarded as wrong by other people (although we are always able to justify our behaviour when considered from our perspective) and we know that our behaviour hurts people but again it is entirely acceptable because we matter and you do not. We are superior and our sense of entitlement allows us to do as we please. We also do not possess the burden of guilt, remorse or compassion and therefore the effects of our behaviour cause us no trouble. There is no moral compass to guide us or hinder us. We may also be aware of exactly what we are, a narcissist. This is not always the case but we do know that we do is considered as abusive. We are intelligent enough to realise that the accusations of abuse fit with what is regarded as abuse, but we are also intelligent enough to know that we must engage in this behaviour because it is necessary to the preservation of our existence. The inherent tension that might exist between choosing to abuse someone and the impact on our existence is one whereby the need to exist will always outweigh the downsides of abusing someone (which are few when looked at through our world view. You would feel “bad” for hurting someone, you would be concerned about how this would affect you relationship or your friendship, you would worry about how others would view you, you would be concerned if it involved the authorities, your employer, your church and so forth. These concerns are much reduced in our world).

You may not realise that we are a narcissist but you do know our behaviour is abusive. Should you label us as an abuser and in support of this contention list the various instances of our behaviour, how do we respond. Our reaction is not subconscious and immediate like those of our lesser kind. We do not respond in a knee jerk reaction. We know that we are abusive and your labelling of us as such initially has two reactions.

The first is that we fear that we are losing control. Control is hugely important to us because we want you doing everything that we want and nothing that we do not want in order to ensure that you provide us with fuel. Our machinations and manipulations are all designed to gain and maintain control. Much of this is achieved by you remaining oblivious to what is happening to you or mitigating its effect by blaming yourselves (which we aim to achieve) or making excuses for us (again, something we aim to bring about). If you do not truly understand what is happening to you, you remain paralysed in this confusion and you will not do anything about it. You will not challenge us, you will not try to escape us, you will not shut off the supply of fuel. Accordingly, we need to keep you bound to us and compliant. This requires control. If we think that our control is being challenged, is slipping or is being eroded then we must establish it and do so quickly. I will return to how this is done in a moment.

The second reaction is that your moment of enlightenment that we are an abuser (or even worse you actually know we are a narcissist) is one of wounding. You have found us out. You have seen through us. You have worked us out. The potential loss of control is troubling, this being found out is terrifying and damaging. You have wounded us because you have criticised us. By telling us that you know what we are, we have failed in maintaining the state of confusion, bewilderment and ignorance. You have pierced the veil. We are mightier than you, superior to you and better than you, how can it be that someone like you has managed to unravel what we are? What else are you capable of? Who might you tell? We have failed. We hate failing. It reminds us of things we have consigned to the darkest recesses of our mind and now you, you hateful, treacherous, disloyal bitch have done this on purpose. You have done this after everything that we have done for you, because you want to hurt us don’t you? This failure to keep you in the dark amounts to a massive criticism of us. This in turn ignites the churning fury that is always there beneath the surface. This ignited fury will mean we either withdraw, unleash cold fury or unleash heated fury.

Our awareness of what we are actually makes us more vulnerable to the accusation of “I know what you are, you are an abuser, a narcissist” than those of our lesser or mid-range brethren. We are far more susceptible to being wounded by this outing. Our awareness equates to a weakness.

All is not lost for us of course. Our intelligence means that whilst we know what we are and we are wounded by your awareness and accusation, we are not without the means of addressing it. Our intelligence allows us to deflect and deny. We will utilise these twins to fight back, applying our considerable minds to deny what you have said. We will challenge your evidence, deny its existence, twist it around, pull it apart, change the subject, focus on something different, blame-shift and project. Powered by our heated fury this onslaught will be brutal and sustained as we fight to regain control. We will batter you into submission so that you become frightened, upset, angry or frustrated and thus you will give us fuel. Our further manipulations will allow us to regain control as you shrink back from our vicious words. Everything will be thrown at you in order to stop the wounding, regain control and gain the required fuel to power this defence mechanism.

If the situation is one where we cannot risk heated fury then we will issue a flat denial and engage cold fury by subjecting you to an icy and prolonged silent treatment, either of the present or absent variety.

If really necessary and this is of the last resort, we will withdraw to escape your wounding and find solace with another who will provide us fuel to repair the gaping wound that you have ripped in us. We will remain away from you for some time as we recover and enjoy the fuel from other sources as we recuperate. We will return of course because there is a score to settle and more fuel to draw from you, but for now that will have to wait.

We will also engage our energies, once we have gained more fuel (either from you if we unleash our heated fury, from you and others if we unleash cold fury and from others if we withdraw) in rolling out a smear campaign against you. Now you know what we are and we know you know, we need to ensure that this pollution does not spread elsewhere. We will up our seduction of other sources so that they like us all the more and ensure we spread poison about you so you are not believed if you try to tell other people that you know what we are.

Finally, the third attribute comes into play. Malice. The mid-range of our kind would withdraw and seek fuel elsewhere and be done with you for some time until a hoover of positive fuel through a Benign Hoover takes place. The mid-range of our kind would unleash heated fury or cold fury to stabilise the position but then would engage a Respite Hoover or a Preventative Hoover aimed at playing down what you know, restoring the golden period for a while so you focus on that and not this new knowledge or to prevent you leaving us armed with this new knowledge. The mid-range narcissist would do all of this to try and diffuse the situation and prevent it being brought up again. This does not apply to those of us who are of the greater variety. You must be punished for your terrible offence against us. Your transgression must be addressed. Your treachery must meet with a consequence. Once we have established control again and recovered from your awful wounding of us then you will be subject to a malign and brutal campaign as punishment for what you have done. This will happen if you remain with us in a relationship. It will happen if you have tried to escape us. We want to rain hell fire down on you in order to punish you for your disgusting behaviour. This is our right. This is our entitlement. This is how we respond.

You may know what we are, but if you are dealing with the greater of our kind, you may reflect on whether you really ought to make it known to us.

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66 thoughts on “Found Out to a Greater Degree”

  1. People in the valley have no effect on the the people on the mountain. Light can cancel darkness but darkness cannot cancel light.

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      1. I beg to differ. I have seen more light than darkness and from my experience darkness is afraid of the light.

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      2. POWER is the rate of doing work, this cannot be achieved without energy.Light is energy. Darkness is the absence of light.
        No power for you HG.
        But, I would say you are like a black hole, But we have to die first, after that you can born.

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    1. Excellent, G! And that energy is ever present.

      “Everything is Dual; everything has poles; everything has its
      pair of opposites; like and unlike are the same; opposites are
      identical in nature, but different in degree; extremes meet;
      all truths are but half-truths; all paradoxes may be
      reconciled. (…)

      It explains that in everything there are two poles, or opposite aspects, and that “opposites” are really only the two extremes of the same thing, with many varying degrees between them. (…)

      The same Principle manifests in the case of “Light and Darkness,” which are the same thing, the difference consisting of varying degrees between the two poles of the phenomena. Where does “darkness” leave off, and “light” begin?”

      –The Kybalion.

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  2. “The difference between my darkness and your darkness is that I can look at my own badness in the face and accept its existence while you are busy covering your mirror with a white linen sheet.
    The difference between my sins and your sins is that when I sin I know I’m sinning while you have actually fallen prey to your own fabricated illusions.
    I am a siren, a mermaid; I know that I am beautiful while basking on the ocean’s waves…..” 🌊🐬

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    1. Ah so beautiful. What greater peace is there than knowing fully what you are and can be delivered when you have embraced your shadow and light. The monster and the magnificence makes a whole. Love this Ms Brown. It touched me.

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    2. The narc and I dragged someone into our mess. She witnessed the awful things we wrote to each other. She said what he said about me was horrid. Me not much better. But I told him later, the difference is I KNOW it was horrid. He does not. He thinks it justified, correct and appropriate. That quote pretty much sums it up.

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  3. There’s no point to revealing what you know, unless you’re ready for the supernova event. The wizard is revealed behind the curtain. Dorothy is relieved to get home.

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  4. Excellent essay, as usual. Thank you and one quick question.

    Say one is in the middle of a seduction by a Greater, and say one should happen upon this blog. Recognizing what is going on, one cuts the fuel so it is no longer worth the effort. Is malice then necessary?

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    1. You would face some further pursuit, the Greater would not (unless in a fuel crisis) give up immediately but if the goods remain unforthcoming he will dis-engage. Malice would be unlikely.

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      1. I had a encounter with a greater over 20 years ago I figured him out and even saw through his smear campaign and flying monkeys. I work in a grocery store and he has resurrected,he stood around so that I could see him. He tried to devalue me but I don’t care what people think of me so that didn’t work. I had to wait on him a couple weeks ago and I just took his order and did not acknowledge him in any kind of way. I haven’t seen him or his flying monkeys, Has he realized that I am out of his league like I warned him when I first saw through him?

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      2. No. If he is a Greater he has realised that for the time being there is no fuel to gain from you and therefore no point in wasting his energy. This will change. He will not consider you out of his league, since he considers you inferior to him.

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      3. Thank you for the reply.
        I fully expect further pursuit, although a silent treatment has commenced….LOL…I absolutely love knowing what the next trick will be.

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  5. I doubt any of my friends would feel I was fortunate to marry into a family full of alcoholic narcissists, but I do. This post was spot on how my husband reacted when I first confronted him about being abusive. The difference, though, is all his family was educated about alcoholism and narcissism. Everybody else knew what he was before I did and they made sure he knew as well. Consequently there was no smearing me to his family and I had a built in support network. And so did he. All that openness, awareness and support helped me to deal with his ongoing abuse, but also helped him to learn how to curb his excesses to standable levels for those of us around him. The more I learn here, the more I appreciate my big, disfuncional mafioso-style – but highly intelligent, self-aware married family. Knowledge really is power and I have been blessed by being surrounded by knowledgeable family since I got engaged at 16.

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  6. When I consider the damage of sudden no contact to a Greater versus confronting him, I have to say the former makes much more sense in terms of wounding back. Let him for once wonder what the hell is going on as I move on.

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    1. One further comment. I was just thinking about the five fears of the narcissist, and specifically the one of his always wondering if THIS time he went too far. That’s another potent reason for my preferring no contact over outing. We let the narc know he indeed went too far.

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  7. Mr. Tudor,

    Can someone be a greater and also dumb as a stump?

    My most recent (6 year relationship…) narc was just gorgeous and had an almost savant-like ability to manipulate, charm and love bomb. He could “sell water to a fish” or “snow to eskimos” as they say. I felt that I was being sold to all the time but was just so enjoying the love bombing that I lapped it up – always.

    I wasn’t “woke” (a term my teenagers use all too much) to narcissism abuse at the time. I was two years out from my divorce and hadn’t dated anyone else. He had an almost childlike exuberance and was so energetic and entertaining to be with. I was smitten and ensnared completely by the love bombing.

    BUT he was just so dumb…and illiterate…and didn’t like to read (yikes!). And lied a lot it turned out. I met him via online dating where I later found out he had lied about his age (“well”, he said, “would you have gone on a date with me if I you had known I was five years older than stated in my profile? “No”, was my answer. “So I was right to do that!” he said). His profile lied about where he lived and his income as well. He seemed to be very impressed by my job and the company where I worked. He asked to borrow money after about the first month or two (red flag I ignored). I also found out later that he had a felony warrant out for his arrest for committing fraud in another state and owed about one million dollars in back taxes (both of these, of course, were the fault of others and misunderstandings)…to top it off he was a born again Christian who believed that the world was created only 4000 years ago and everything else they believe – and he used those beliefs to manipulate and twist – while I am not the religious type and nodded at his proclamations as one would to someone who they are placating until the subject can be changed (no offense to any born again Christians out there!)… he couldn’t keep a job… and… well, sigh… I am embarrassed to admit to my stupidity as I see it so nakedly and brutally exposed in the writing above. But there it is in all of it’s festering ugliness. The truth shall set you free (or make you cringe).

    I tried to keep my vocabulary to words less than three syllables when speaking to him so as to not intimidate him/make him defensive. And I had to explain things (multiple times in many cases) in a way that was not patronizing – this got much harder to do toward the end.

    Even my teenage children commented on his lack of intellect. They are all extremely bright in part thanks their impossibly high IQ’d cerebral narc father who I was with for over a decade. I was originally attracted to their father because of his intellect and wit as my “type” had always been somatic or perhaps I had attracted somatics – although I didn’t know what somatic was at the time – and those relationships didn’t work out. I wanted to go in a completely different direction and he was it or so I thought. However, he was good looking underneath all his geekery. 🙂

    My cerebral narc ex- husband and I get along pretty well now and appreciate each other’s slightly twisted sense of humor. However, I have no desire to ever be with him again or sadness about not being with him. Perhaps because I divorced/discarded him and the situation that preceded my discard of him, and because he was so bitter and nasty during the divorce. I think he’s amused by my realization of narcissistic behavior. Just this morning, he was here for something child related. He still feels comfortable just walking into my house like he owns the place…now that my most recent narc is no longer here. He said something that was the opposite of what he had said the last time we spoke. I told him he was gas lighting. He stopped, looked at me and we both laughed.

    Back to the most recent narc. He was a bit defensive about his intellect and claimed he had learning disabilities but “figured things out differently” than anyone else and that made him “superior” and actually smarter than everyone else he had to deal with (eye roll). He was a somatic, very sporty, concerned with having the best clothes, car, etc. again just a beautiful specimen. He was also an aging narc, older than I by about 12 years (which is why I’ve been interested in the aging narc topic). I could tell aging bothered him. He would put himself down so that I would in turn compliment him and stroke his ego. I admit I did enjoy his reaction when I pointed out that he was ever so slightly starting to lose his hair at the crown of his head – where he couldn’t see it and desperately tried to – and I offered to help him by covering it up by brushing other hair over it. I also must mention that an aging narc makes up for what is failing by trying extra hard to satisfy in alternative ways – as you have correctly alluded to, HG. And I fully took advantage of the extra effort.

    Ultimately, I was discarded about a year ago, then experienced a grand hoover where he love bombed, threatened to kill himself and asked me to marry him – in. a. text. I declined. He did all of the other standard (I now know as standard thanks to your blogs) grand hoover tactics – and I took him back albeit warily. I was discarded again about 6 months ago quite suddenly (to me) via an email. He said in the email “I must admit I have loved you more than any other person of the opposite sex except for my children.” I found saying “I must admit” a bit strange at the time. I was gutted by the email but didn’t respond to it. Then a week later he texted me to say he had met someone, dated her only five times and had married her the night before. He said it was out of his control (how very Dangerous Liaisons) she had “said something to him from her soul that had rocked him to his core.” What that was he wouldn’t say, of course. He said he informed me of his marriage out of respect for me (um, yeah right).

    So, back to my question. Can a greater be dumb as a stump? Perhaps he is a mid range?

    I have to ask as I am fairly talented and consider myself to be intelligent yet I’m afraid I’ve been such a complete blind idiot when it comes to narcs. I am educated now, however, largely due to your blogs and appreciate the insight you have provided. Thanks for reading such a lengthy post. This was kind of cathartic but feeling a bit laid bare. So be it.

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  8. A few thoughts jumped out at me as follows “…we know that our behavior hurts people but again it is entirely acceptable because we matter and you do not”. I think this is clear Narc awareness.
    “We are superior and our sense of entitlement allows us to do as we please”. Perhaps the Narc “sense” of entitlement is superior, not the entitlement itself.
    “We also do not possess the burden of guilt, remorse or compassion and therefore the effects of our behavior cause us no trouble” Okay, I have to admit this is probably a Narc gift.
    “There is no moral compass to guide us or hinder us”. This, then, is the problem.

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  9. Such an existence of totality through self preservation. It made my heart shaded when I read this because I can relate to such severity but only on a level of internal suffering.

    It is a blackened horizon if an individual’s path continues on a direct course towards one extreme. The color can fade from the outset and you are presented with a view that will never change. The same clouds. The same trees. The same bland flavors. Short lived loves. Fleeting experiences to fill that emptiness. Love eludes you. Everything becomes stale in the end. Only a darkened sky awaits unless you can turn from that path somehow.

    But once you do, the path takes many twists, exhilarated turns, and you can embrace the pain. You are then gifted with the beauty of feeling every range of human emotion.You see every color. Taste every pleasure fully. Love freely. You experience your ugliness and elegance. The end result is a magnificent never ending sunset that is painted with resplendent colors for you to dance in.

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  10. H.G,

    1. How would the Greater react, post discard (by him), if during his next benign hoover, I’d say: “I know what you are and I’m done being a good…empath” (so there’s no confusion!)
    He’d be in total shock but would claim he has no idea what I’m talking about.

    2. But, would that trigger a malign hoover? (Though he can’t really smear me in my way)

    3. Or just a rage for smacking his hoover back into his face?
    4. Or, he’d smile and think to himself one of my favorite thing HG ever wrote ” Kitty has claws” (LOVE THIS! It’s now mine, hope you don’t mind HG!)

    😙 A million thanks in advance.

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    1. 1. He would deny your apparent state of knowledge. Consider there to be a challenge in place for the purposes of hoovering, but make a mental note of your awareness.
      2. Your escape, treachery and subsequent failure to return to the fold post IGH or Benign FUH. If you were exposing him in some way or carrying out your own smear.

      You can use Kitty has claws. The lawyers are drawing up a licence agreement.

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  11. HG is my assumption correct if I think that the midranger is easiest to deal with since they just run away or withdraw/silent treatment upon confrontation instead of revenge and settling scores? Also they are less likely to hoover hard and will give up quickly?

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    1. It is all relative. The MR is less likely to be malicious and is not outwardly aggressive, but some people find the silent treatments, the repeated turning of third parties against the victim, the pity plays et al as unpleasant or worse than say threats or physical violence. It depends on the outlook of the victim.

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      1. HG, I have left a couple of comments so far and have a note saying they are awaiting moderation….I have hit the same button a few times being the technophobe that I am so apologies if your inbox is besieged.

        In regards to the Greater (although I might be flattering my ex in thinking he is one) I am keeping well out of the spheres of influence but….is it a given that, when children are involved, he will rear his head as and when he feels like it in the future? Or can I, by way of channeling grey rock, avoid this indefinitely? And if he did rear his head – because doing so would provide fuel either via his current IP or me – how could I best deflect it? Your insight will interest me, guess that’s my gaining of fuel too then!

        Also….left field here but with regard to the demons…..would your kind be able to manifest in someone else’s body if that were the only (cowardly) way to get a chilling message to an unresponsive ex-victim (I am fully aware how random a thought this is but there’s many things I didn’t think possible before being ensnared!)

        Thank you in advance.

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      2. Hello I’M Free, no problem, I will remove duplicates.

        The existence of children will cause you to inevitably enter a sphere of influence and thus cause a hoover trigger. Thus it is unlikely you will be able to completely minimise the risk of a Hoover Trigger as you might in a different scenario.

        The key question then is one of the Hoover Execution Criteria being met. To raise the bar he needs to know there is unlikely to be any fuel provided, there is a risk of wounding, that there are obstacles and that is difficult to contact you. I suspect the latter point is not going to apply given shared parenting. He is going to hoover you at some point and you are going to have to weather a few and minimise the contact as much a possible and provide a little fuel as possible to cause him to be less inclined to do so in future hoovers.

        I do not subscribe to the view that we are demons albeit I understand why some people may think that way.

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    2. Thank you for your post Hurt; as provoked thought and clarity. I am thinking of a Narcs’ query “Would you prefer an emotional or perhaps a physical sucker punch? And may I also interest you/manipulate you as I …….

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  12. “…This does not apply to those of us who are of the greater variety. You must be punished for your terrible offence against us. Your transgression must be addressed. Your treachery must meet with a consequence. Once we have established control again and recovered from your awful wounding of us then you will be subject to a malign and brutal campaign as punishment for what you have done. This will happen if you remain with us in a relationship. It will happen if you have tried to escape us. We want to rain hell fire down on you in order to punish you for your disgusting behaviour. This is our right. This is our entitlement. This is how we respond. …”

    So true! Once I told one of my siblings that our father was a narcissist not knowing that my sibling would tell our father about it. My father *almost* destroyed me. He died after having routine surgery.

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  13. HG,
    I have a question. I just want to ask you if you would like to be able to feel love?
    I don’t want the answer “love is for weak people”‘.
    I mean, are you curious about knowing what is to feel love and respect? Would you be able To leave this darkness behind for one day and do something good for someone just as experience to see what you would feel.
    You won’t die, I am sure you won’t. And if you hate what you feel, you can go back and just be the person with narc. personality disorder.

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    1. Hello G, I already have respect. Some of that respect is borne out of fear and some of it from admiration. I am also loved by people.
      In terms of me actually experiencing those sensations, I can respect people albeit I would not recognise the as ‘above’ me in anyway.
      As for love. If it only had to be for one day, I would be suitably curious to do that, yes.
      In terms of doing good – I lots of good. Someone as effective as me often does so.

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      1. You are like the perfect person. Exept this wee bit problem you have of destroying people. lol

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      2. I would like to meet you one day. LOL. Cause as long as that’s not the case, I would like to ‘watch’ you and use you as a benchmark for ranking all the narcs that I have crossed paths with. Would be interesting. LOL. As long as you make it rule number whatever that you are not allowed to destroy me. Free fuel, I am sure, just no destruction. Would be interesting to see how you all line up.

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      3. “As for love. If it only had to be for one day, I would be suitably curious to do that, yes”

        Let me know..

        If you want to experience it for one day you need first love yourself not because you think you are better than others , but because you are a human being and you are worth loving.

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  14. HG you have a choice to destroy people because you have the awareness but you HAVE to do it for fuel and survival. Am I correct?

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  15. Now that I learned about narc , I will make sure I will never get involved and I will protect myself. I don”t want to suffer again.

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  16. 1) HG so this post adresses the midranger and greater, right? So no separate post re how the midranger’s reaction when found out?
    2) Also when you say gone for some time, does this mean more than a year or what?

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      1. HG I am being lovebombed. It is true what you say they do come back. He has been together with new IPPS for six months now so I guess she is no longer cock of the walk but feather duster. And now I am good enough again

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  17. HG:
    What if now it is me who is consciously using intermittent reinforcement on a narc I can´t get away from? (We work together)I got married 6 months ago and he considered it criticism so is trying to get me to cheat. The usual speech about how he´s changed, classic. Hoover, hover…. what do you think?

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  18. .
    If you want to experience it for one day you need first love yourself not because you think you are better than others , but because you are a human being and you are worth loving.

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  19. Interesting stuff, thanks.
    Quick question HG Tudor, if I may.
    After exposing my, likely mid-range narcissist, her friends and family all blocked me on Facebook and no doubt a hefty smear campaign followed. She hasn’t contacted me since.
    However, she didn’t block or remove my one family member who she was friends with.
    What’s your interpretation of this?

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  20. I took a trip to your site today because I needed to read this. I knew what my N was all about early on but I suppressed it because I didn’t want to call him out on it. He displays every single narcissistic behavior and after three rounds of the N loop and during the last devalue stage, I let it all out. I had no control over it. I called him a narcissist over and over and even sent him links to various articles on it. I listed in detail his behaviors and what they represented. I exposed him to the nearest and dearest to him including his wife! You know what that did? It made me feel completely disgusted and horrible. You know why? I hurt him. This is his survival technique to get by in life. I know this, he knows this, everyone close to him knows this. Now, I’m discarded forever probably and I feel guilty because I was a long time good friend to him. It bothers me that I was the one to throw it all in his face. He projected and blame shifted. He raged and called me every disgusting name in regards to the female genitalia. Instead of staying calm because I knew about NPD before this final blow and knew exactly what would happen if I ever called him a narcissist. But my feelings of caring for someone deeply got in the way and I reacted out of hurt. Knowing in my heart that his feelings of care and concern for me all these years was nothing but a fairytale. See? Those damn useless feelings and emotions do nothing but bring on headaches! I can understand why narcissists hate to express any feelings of empathy and love!

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    1. I sincerely hope you stay HERE, and commit to HG’s way…
      Ask Him and He will direct you to what will assist you!

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