The Errors of the Ignorant – No.5

PERHAPSIF YOUTRIED TO BEMOREUNDERSTANDING

A series based on the comments made by people who fail to understand the true nature of narcissists and the narcissistic dynamic. Whilst these comments may be well-intentioned, they are incorrect, perpetuate misunderstandings and in many cases create false hope, dashed expectations and perilous outcomes.

“Perhaps if you tried to be more understanding.”

You are at your wit’s end. You are in devaluation at the hands and tongue of one of our kind. Nothing makes sense. You are told that we love you on Saturday and then on Sunday you are berated as a whore and you have no comprehension as to why. You are lambasted repeatedly through the imposition of name-calling, physical violence, triangulation, unfavourable comparisons, silent treatments and more. You may hear sentences such as:-

“I am sick of you trying to make me look bad.”

“Why will you never just do what I want to do? Why does it always have to be about you?”

“Stop talking over me. I can never make myself heard around you.”

“If you loved me, you would do it.”

“Why can’t you just leave me alone?”

“Why won’t you be more supportive?”

“You never help me anymore.”

There are thousands of similar comments and the worst of it makes no sense. Let’s return to each of these comments and accusations and beneath them detail what you have been actually doing and therefore this is why your confusion has arisen.

“I am sick of you trying to make me look bad.”

You do not recall ever having said anything bad about us, on the contrary you are also telling us how brilliant we are and you say this about us to other people. You never speak beyond the home about our horrible behaviours.

“Why will you never just do what I want to do? Why does it always have to be about you?”

You always do what we want. You cannot recall the last time you chose what we did or even did something on your own which you wanted to do. In fact, you find yourself always pandering to what we want.

“Stop talking over me. I can never make myself heard around you.”

You do not do this or if you have once in a while it is only because you are trying to make yourself heard as we keep ignoring you.

“If you loved me, you would do it.”

You do love us. You tell us this every day.

“Why can’t you just leave me alone?”

You give us time and space to do our own things but then we complain that you do not spend enough time with us.

“Why won’t you be more supportive?”

You are always looking out for us, looking after us and caring for us.

“You never help me anymore.”

You feel like an indentured servant.

The reality of what you experience does not accord at all with what we are describing but you just cannot understand why we are saying these things. Your head is spinning, you know we are not stupid but each time you try to show us that you do help us out, that you are supportive and so forth, you are accused of provoking an argument, of trying to control us or making us look bad. You try to explain, appease and apologise but it just seems to lead to more arguments or us storming off and disappearing. You are at your wit’s end.

You finally discuss this perplexing situation to someone else and they offer the advice that perhaps you just need to be more understanding. You feel like already are very understanding, but as an empathic person you are not only committed to making this relationship work, you are also willing to try more, try harder and try, try and try. Your advisor has explained that it might be that we struggle to convey how we really feel, that our words are not exactly what we are feeling and that it is a case of giving us time to express ourselves and by being more understanding we will finally understand what it is that is causing the problem. This makes sense to you because you are an understanding person and because you have not been able to understand so far, then why not try some more and perhaps you will make the breakthrough. It finally adds up and of course, desperate to make sense of this bewildering situation you are willing to try.

It will not work.

You are attempting to understand something which you cannot understand because you and your advisor have not grasped who it is you are dealing with. One of our kind. This means that you do not realise that we approach the world from the Narcissistic Perspective, using Toxic Logic. This makes perfect sense to us, but is perplexing to you. You cannot equate our behaviours to what you see and hear in front of us but neither will you, because you do not know what we are.

You do not realise that we must draw fuel. You do not realise that we must maintain the upper hand at all times. You do not realise that narcissistic criticism wounds us. You are unaware of the three types of interaction as described in Fuel, Fight or Flight. Since you do not realise that these are the pertinent considerations you do not grasp that when we perceive you as not paying us attention, our fury is ignited and we lash out by claiming that you do not support us.

You do not understand that we ignore the fact that you are supportive because in that moment we need fuel and if this means being contradictory and hypocritical, then so be it. You do not realise that we compartmentalise so that what happened yesterday is separate, distinct and not linked to what is happening now. You look for consistency, evidence supporting the proposition or rejecting our allegation. We do not look at it in this way and the more you try to understand and in turn the more you try to get us to understand, the more you fail to get anywhere.

You will keep applying your logic. You will keep thinking we must surely see what you are referring to. You will expect us to approach the situation from your perspective and this is completely wrong.

Once you understand our perspective, flawed and fucked-up as it may appear, you make a massive breakthrough. Suddenly you realise why we flare up over (apparently) nothing. Now you understand why we change our stance in the blink of an eye. Now you make sense of our (apparently) disproportionate response. You still think it is bizarre, ridiculous and astonishing but now you get it and the relief is incredible.

Unfortunately for you, you listened to the wrong advisor who does not know what we are and does not understand us. Instead, they suggest you try to be more understanding and you may as well flog a dead horse for all their mis-guided advice will achieve for you.

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23 thoughts on “The Errors of the Ignorant – No.5”

  1. How very sad. Desperate for the love right there for you to engulf yourself in. Feast upon. Delve into and nourish your soul. What a sad waste of flesh and bones…a lost, empty soul floundering and pushing away the very thing you crave…forbidden by ego and denial.
    I used to feel pity, remorse, tried to understand and fill the void…there is no room to fill, for that vast vacuum is filled with anger, self loathing and disgust.

    I now look into the eyes of the empty soul with nothing but indifference…..and that kills him, more than he is already dead. My indifference sucks any and all energy he has gained….he gains nothing from me…unless I want something from him. The tables have turned. He now is addicted to gaining my energy….his ego and need for power drives him. I watch. I smile. I have learnt from him. I became him in order to survive. I relish in the thought of him in pain and confusion. I watch. I know his next move, because I was apart of his soul. He cant lose….he knows not what to do with indifference….salt on a slug!

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    1. Same here. It’s interesting how he ran away, how they all run away from me. When they see it in your eyes that you know they are a narcissist, they run away fast and for good. All three of them are gone from my sight, including my sister. I let them know, and I’m numbing,y indifferent to their existence.
      There’s not a drop of fuel to be gained from me. I look at him and see nature, a tree, a lion, a seagull. There’s no difference. He’s a part of the animate and inanimate nature. He’s not alive.
      Nothing it says means anything, it makes no difference if it says anything, I’m unmoved. That is unsettling to him, my non reactions, and he runs..

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  2. HG, why is the narcissism mostly seen in personal relationships? Narcissists can be successful in their professional lives and are able to control responses in that environment. Why can’t that same self control bridge into a narc’s personal life?

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    1. Narcissism appears in all dynamics – familial, work, social and romantic.
      In the professional life of the narcissist, dependent on their school the control on the fury and the need to maintain the façade means that the ‘good’ side of the narcissist is the one which presents most of the time (differs for Lessers).
      Also in familial, social and work relationships the gathering of fuel from appliances is different. There are more of them and they are used intermittently which means the fuel rarely becomes stale.
      Narcissism appears more prevalent in the romantic relationship because
      1. This is what is written about the most;
      2. It is where devaluation occurs most often and to the greatest extent (because the primary source is the one who risks providing stale fuel the most and being punished the most);
      3. By virtue of it being romantic the emotional connection is greatest and therefore it follows that the emotional fallout is the greatest; and
      4. You spend the most time with a romantic partner, entwine on so many levels (love, money, home, children, friends, family, possessions, interests and so forth) that the impact across all of these things when matters turn sour is more extensive and far-reaching.

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    2. I’d say they use the same strategies in the workplace. Objectifying people for their own gain. Same rules apply , though for some reason sex and intimacy hands over more power To the narc. In relationships you spend more time together, at work you can get your leisure hours away from the npd and hope you’re not in the line of fire the next day

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  3. Agree with a lot of this, there is a lot of conflicting theories out there on advice that should be taken. To me it’s quite simple , the frog and the scorpion story encapsulates the relationship stratagems of the narc v empath. One thing that I don’t hear mentioned is that codependants and empathy have their own box of tricks to draw from. Sub v Dom , who really is in control ? If I’m an empath or a diagnosed borderline with narc tendencies, as I’ve been told

    My malignant ex had no real substance and was also a relentless bully who enjoyed torturing me. I gave her some back and gaslit her and witnessed the image of a frightened herbivore about to devoured by a vicious predator on top of the food chain. Narcs are fucking cowards I’m a fucking coward my pain is ever present (think that’s the bpd). I don’t know who I am, I know how to torture and guess what my karma did arrive in the end I met more than my match. Another coward a self entitled child miss her like fuck though. I enjoyed the boundary less dance I also found it horrifying.

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  4. The narcissists emotional part of brain gets fucked up during their early years by lack of love and nourishing. People create these narcissistic monsters themselves by denying them love and affection when they are little. Then again, they are narcissists themselves, so it is a vicious cycle from which there is no way out. How sad. And you wonder why there is so much evil in the world. Before I could not understand how human being could be so evil to one another (war, genocide). Now I know.

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  5. This article is absolutely fabulous. It is so understanding and validating. I cannot tell you how emotional this makes me feel on so many levels HG.

    Realisation needs to hit home over and over again.
    As you say it is an incredible relief to get the realisation…
    It is because the seduction is so all encompassing in the beginning that when realisation first hits it is such a relief but short lived … the second guessing starts again as you know.
    The power of the preventative hoover etc…then all the others.

    That’s why your work is so brilliant…it takes You to take down our Narcissist’s seductions…Layer by layer and piece by piece ..you unravel the tight knotted ball they’ve made and each article you do unpicks it again and again as they come at us with hoover after hoover post escape/discard.

    I sincerely adore that I can turn here to you HG…particularly on the hardest days…

    You are a real force for the victim here in your work..there just is no one else for me with such clout as you. Yes I know I have me ofcourse but I am not ashamed to admit that I was failing so badly and could not maintain my stance for long enough mentally with the constant hoovers I get…months and months of them…endlessly.

    I kept telling myself I had it all wrong… and I hadnt got it all wrong.

    HG.. you are a lifeline with this work. The way you hammer it home so thoroughly…and you repeat it in different ways..bringing the information in at different angles.. you surround our enemy..

    Staying with your counsel is a “no contest” position for the ex and I am so grateful for the work youre doing and the dedication..the time you put into it.
    Sorry to go on but I felt driven to comment about it again today.📚💜

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  6. HG, it is so crazy. A huge facade to other people is so important for them. It is much more important than anything else. I saw my narc and his narcissistic family pleasing people all the time to keep the facade. Helping other people, giving money to other people to feed them, only to keep the facade, clinging on really rich people to keep the facade, driving Porsche without having enough money. But never caring for each other. Abusing each other within the family allover. All of them thought only about themselves and all of them lied to each other. They never sat together and tried to solve any problem together. They never talked about feelings, it was an eternal fight against each other with changing couples. Father and son combined against mother. Mother and son combined against father. Son against parents. Parents against son. And it was done very subtle. I never saw them screaming or anything like that. What a loveless world. Money was the only thing, what kept them together. Money had replaced love and caring. So, therefore it was no wonder, that I was devalued (besides my stale), because I refused to give my money to them to cover all their business failures. Each reasonable suggestion to get out of their money problems was neglected. They have had money in the past, they are entitled to have money again. Somebody else should pay for their faults in the past. It was everybody else fault, but never ever it was their fault. They refused to look for solutions and to take a look at reality. Business people without being able to fight for their own business. In many ways very helpless people.
    And I should be the saviour of all their problems. Mummy for a whole adult family. My fault, that I wanted to be the saviour at first. I am so glad that I was devalued and escaped. No, thank you. I do not want to belong to such a sick, cold, cowardly and helpless combination of adults. I refuse to call them a family.
    The only good thing I can say they really wanted to be a family, but they did not know how. Too much distrust and the compulsion to hurt the other one and to control /suppress the other one. If anybody of them was honest and asked for help, it was considered by the others as weak. And then he/ she got their punishment. What a sick world.

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    1. Sounds like the family I was born into. I escaped though. I was the scapegoat/dumpster of all their/our issues. They wanted me to own them all and make me responsible. They blamed me for and accused me of the very things they themselves were doing to me and to others. My mother told me that she thinks the problems among my siblings and I started with me. Couldn’t possibly be her and the sperm donor. Very toxic people.

      And the hoovering comes at Christmas time and my birthday. I have taken to shredding all those greeting cards. You’re so right Mona, it is a sick world but I will say that I have been blessed or lucky or whatever to also see and experience other families outside of my own who are nothing like mine.

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  7. Your ability to compartmentalize is what really sets you apart and enables the toxic logic. Everything is its own standalone event. You’re only as good as your last act with a Narc and you better hope you didn’t wound or criticize them.
    I can’t remember if it was you or someone else who gave the analogy of a huge shoe closet. And everyone and events are packaged away neatly in their respective shoe box on their shelf. When you’ve had your fun wearing one pair, then it’s neatly tucked away. That is why you can flip so easily from having an enjoyable event one afternoon and turn it into a screaming match the next day. No blending or flow. Perpetuates the split black and white thinking.

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  8. Hg I wish I had your writing talent, it’s better than vaknin. Pity youre disordered, though in saying that, your words are helping me.and many others Just listened to your podcast with this Christine woman. Thought it excellent. Just wish I didn’t have this obsessive wanderlust she dying through pages of reading about cluster b, but it’s been a necessary journey. I may embark on a private session as I find myself falling off the wagon continually from healing

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    1. Hello Ian, thanks for the back-handed compliment, it could have come from my own stable!! I appreciate your kind comment and indeed yes I am labelled as disordered. It is a necessary journey because the more you read, the more you understand and then you achieve freedom. By all means feel free to engage with me in a consultation, you will find it immensely helpful as many others have.

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  9. Had a few jamiesons as is my right as a white man I get ephinanies all the time but they disintegrate rapidly with self doubt. The big question here to me is that my whole being has been compromised after my merry dance with the narc. How to I get back to myself ? Is it gone? It feels that way. Is it the release I needed ? Do I feel strong enough to go on with my new found wisdom? Or is it too much.? Awakenings are frightening. I suffered abuse as a child and tried to fit in , as is.
    Good footballer. Competent miusician not bad looking Now at an age where my pulling power has diminished dramatically . I stalked this woman in the belief I was following the rules. Due diligence??? Or a dramatic impingement on someone’s privacy?? She told me she loved me , we had a future together. Am I wrong in not trusting someone who lies with scant regard of the effects it has on ones psyche?? I engineered an affair with a married woman, or was I just another swinging Dick made readily available for her own selfish sensory gratification??? Differences here are that I fell in love with someone on a relentless pursuit for gratification. My aging physicality may not have been enough. But it kept going The lies distorted my reality and I was a willing compatriot the sex was constant but unnatural , why?? Because I didn’t know who I was shagging.. but the thrill of it all was too much to ignore. I became impotent and was swallowing two Viagra just to keep the game going. The aftermath and the instant devaluation was devastating. Pre conditioning about finding “the one” got in the way She looked delightful. Perfect. I couldn’t resist. I would have abandoned my own children for more time with this gorgeous creature. I’m fucking insane. If nothing else it was never boring. This real and normal thing we are supposed to have becomes boring. Narcs have one thing in their locker. They are never boring. I love her still fuck this

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  10. I go to the odd cheap Asian who’re readily available in inner city Sydney. It’s the same deal, quick shower then on to the business of manufactured sex. The uncomfortable thank yous. The absent catharthis the guilt though fleeting about the exploitation.

    The vile environment, the memories of the tortuter. My many failed relationships are probably a result of my own cluster b traits. I fucking need fuel. But I don’t necessarily want to hurt I wish I was at one of the ends of the spectrum where I could rationalize and move on. To be honest I could watch the planes smashing into the world trade centre on videowith glee and exhilaration. Conversely I would die for my kids.

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  11. Hello HG,
    If a Narc. is told-I know who you are and why you do what you do and I understand. How would they take that? Would that be a major criticism to them or if said with emotion, would it be fuel? Say someone like me stated to her ex narc. I know what you are I have read from a Grand Elite Master N. that this is what you do and this is why right now your face and expression is showing fury- what does this do?
    Thank you 🙂

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  12. We cannot understand
    the secrets … the lies…. the humiliations… the flattering … the empty promises.. the rage.. the fakery… the devaluation.. the rejection.. the hurt… the cheating.. the threats … the hell…
    and the claim of love…
    so destructive
    😔

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  13. How right you are about the clarity that comes with finally understanding your kind’s perspective, HG!

    When I finally stumbled upon a comprehensive account of what narcissism is all about, I swear the heavens parted and a host of angels, complete with harps and halos, burst into the sweetest rendition of the hallelujah chorus I’ve ever heard!

    I felt reborn! Positively rejuvenated! Because I had come perilously close to the point of denouncing my understanding capacity! Oh, the number of times the narc’s minion-in-charge/best friend told me: “You just need to understand him…” Like there was some serious deficiency in my understanding capabilities, tsk!

    “Try to be more understanding; be accommodating.” Such well meaning, yet lethal advice when you’re entangled with the narcissist.

    I remember applying this advice after one particularly exasperating attempt at communication, from which I came away feeling like I’d been tossed about in a high wind. I was still lamentably unaware of the fiend that lurked beneath the surface even though I’d caught fleeting glimpses of it. I looked with sad, determination into the narc’s eyes and declared with earnest commitment: “I don’t know why I can’t seem to bring up issues that are important to me without seeming to upset you. Is it the way I say it? How I express myself? Because if my method of communication is the problem, then I figure out a way to get through to you without upsetting you, or die trying.”

    I might as well have handed him a blank cheque for abuse. The smile on his face was so resplendent, it almost touched his eyes. Then he promptly set about putting the “die trying” bit of my declaration to the test, because no doubt that’s the only thing he heard… all this because I listened to “be more understanding” advice! Pah!
    Thankfully, I lived to tell the tale.

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